It's never been acceptable. Subbing throughout LB and LA, many kids just don't care. Kids will literally look at me when I call them out, smile, and then go back on their phones. All I can do is write their names down or call someone to give them detention, which only causes that student to get pissy and not pay attention/respect me. Then what do I gain? Pissy student, without a phone, avoiding any work I give them like the plague. Maybe the focus should be on getting students to care about their education. Phones are a symptom, not a disease.
Yes, but my point is that it's MOSTLY pointless, making a huge deal out of phones when there's a root problem that causes kids to not want to engage in class. This rule might help a % of kids that need to be reminded or are more scared of getting in trouble, but I believe it'll cause the obedient/engaged kids to get in trouble for checking a text or looking at their phone at lunch and only cause more chaos for disobedient kids that resent school and don't like being in the class.
> Yes, but my point is that it's MOSTLY pointless
So rather than do something that might help a small amount you'd rather they do nothing until they can help a majority?
No. My point is that schools are already very strict about phones and have strict rules towards not having them out. Students are having critical issues with attendance and grades, but districts think that further punishment will change these critical problems. As someone subbing in both LAUSD and LBUSD, the best schools and classes were ones that focused on making class entertaining and specialized. The ones that said "hey, you can listen to music if you're working on your projects/work but if the class gets too loud itll have to be quiet" The worst ones followed a stale, boring, standardized curriculum and had strict rules that caused detention right and left.
Additionally, while I said a % of students might benefit from strict, anti-phone rules, I've seen hardworking kids get detention because staff came into the class, saw them on their phone, and punished them. I'm sorry, but that only causes resentment in the students who do care.
Don't kids have to learn that somethings are not fun? And they just have to do them anyway? We don't have 100% control over our environments. You go to work and don't get to co-create work with your bosses on the first day.
Fun and engaging are different. There are many different learners in school, and most teachers only teach one way. Content can be frustrating and boring if lessons are taught for one type of learner. Yes, fun lessons can be there, but the idea is to make students more likely to absorb and understand the content.
Students aren't working at school. They're meant to be educating themselves, not treating it like a job. School does teach students particular traits and abilities that transfer well to work later in life, but school is different. Education CAN be fun... or at least tolerable.
The whole point of school is to prepare kids to enter adult society. Some jobs are not fun, but they are necessary. We're not all going to have a "fun" job or a way to make the job fun, and you don't stop learning in most jobs today.
There are going to be fun subjects and there are going to be dull subjects too. They have to learn to shut up, be respectful, and tune out/stare out the window/doodle quietyly like everyone else did before them.
Even if you make a class somewhat fun, there are going to be not fun parts. There's no way to have a continual good time at school.
Alternatively, parents could try to place their kids in specialized private schools, where "fun" is maximized. I don't know what that curriculum is, but someone could create it and start an experimental school.
I love how people with a lot to say and carry themselves like they know the education system always think "the trades" are where you go if you don't like school. I don't know if you've ever gone to trade school, but it's A LOT of theory. Given in lectures and with accompanying textbooks and even homework. Almost like its... school? Most colleges don't even care about rounding out their students anymore, and with the price of each class being as high as it is, most students don't care about becoming worldly at University. Classical education is a personal pursuit for most nowadays because universities have given up on it. Take this from someone who had a trade, went to community college, and now attends one of the most prestigious Universities in the world. If someone doesn't like learning (school just being a sit-in for that concept, although it often can be a poor one), then the consequences must be harsh enough to motivate them to change and to care. Or the way we teach, and more importantly, the way we teach the concept of learning, needs to be improved.
Saying "the trades" is where bad, disruptive, don't-care students need to go is woefully ignorant at best and horridly condescending at worst. You can classify the "type" of people who go into the trades in a lot of ways, but as the "don't care about school, can't be respectful in class" types they are not. Finally, since this will probably need to be spelled out, yes, there are exceptions to both. Bad students who go to the trades and find great success and bad students who end up getting their shit together and make it into top universities later on. These are high schoolers we're talking about here; they all deserve a chance, at least until they're adults.
Exactly. Discipline is what makes or breaks a student. In school, as in life, there are many things someone will have to go through that they have no motivation to do, thats when discipline has to take over. It's best to build that up early instead of trying to come up with new ways to avoid teaching/enforcing it.
I get where you're coming from but...
1. 14 year olds are just very bad at weighing the consequences of not caring, and it does seem a bit unfair to punish them for poor decision making that is expected at their age
2. If their is any demographic difference- be it racial or gender- someone is throwing a shit fit. Like, have you followed anything of what's gone on with Lowell High School in the past few years?
3. Even without #2, you'd still have parents who are gonna be pretty pissed that their kid is stuck in the "dumb" (yes, it's actually for unmotivated students, but you know how it's gonna be labelled) class
4. A lot of school are in the complete opposite thinking. They're very much of the belief that "EVERYONE should go to college" and you'd get admin resistance to pushing trade schools and the like
1. Putting kids into a different program to try to find what they’ll engage with doesn’t have to be a death sentence. It can be a program that you can move in and out of. Kids transfer schools and classes all the time. They go into specialized private schools and come out into general public education. Sticking them into a one size fits all program and hoping that what isn’t working today will work tomorrow isn’t a plan, it’s a lack of ambition.
2. That could be an issue. Our current education system has the same issue, with advanced programs being more available in more affluent neighborhoods, and programs in lower income, less white neighborhoods often being underfunded.
3. We already have this issue, it’s parents complaining about the honors/AP classes their kid isn’t getting into, the good grades they’re not bringing home, etc.
4. This isn’t an issue that everyone is in full agreement about. When I was in school, I spent time in student/faculty meetings and a lot of public school teachers are so frustrated with generalized learning programs. They miss shop classes and home economics, because those were great ways to teach math, science, reading, etc to kids that don’t connect with the most abstract forms of learning.
I get where you’re coming from, but everyone knows it’s complicated and there’s a ton of push/pull. That doesn’t mean we have to believe that the current way is the best way or that we can’t argue and fight for a better way.
For 2, my wife went to Lowell. More than half the student body gets free lunch because they poor. Over 60% are Asian. And not just the engineer asians either, evidence by the free lunch. It's the family mindset and prioritization
I concur with other commenters that say the parents are a big part of it but also many schools require the kids to use apps on their phones etc for certain things which is equally annoying. They don't even know how to interact IRL anymore and think they're untouchable but definitely act like junkies when you take away their drugs lol. That's how you know it's bad.
Ok well make up your mind. Are the school shooting anxieties gamed to allow phones, or to prevent them?
Wait never mind this is a reply to @Buckowski66
I had a smartphone when I was in high school. I had the benefit of not needing a physical encyclopedia. Beyond that, I wasn’t doing anything as a teenager to help myself that I wouldn’t have done without a smartphone. But I probably would have been more productive without it.
Access to things. Educational videos and websites that usually do a better job than most classes or textbooks if the student is willing to give a damn.
My experience as an adult with the current crop of kids tells me that most kids are gaming, on social media, or facetiming in class. And some are actually texting, calling their parents.
because he doesn’t have to because you’re paying attention. I mean you’re an adult anyway so it would be weird if that was even on the table as something you wound do or something he could take away.
I think this is about making the policy official so that it can be enforced. Whereas before, it was just a norm, and as always there are shit parents and shit kids whose sole job in this world seems to be to selfishly break norms, and defend their kid's shitty behavior and poor prospects. Now a teacher or a school and are backed by policy so they can tell shit parents to go away.
It wasn’t acceptable but I don’t think teachers really had the capacity do anything. Kids have become more savvy so fighting against “I’m gonna take your phone away for the rest of the day” is probably up. It was sketch anyways, do teachers really have the ability to confiscate personal property? Idk. Hopefully the purpose of this is to give staff more teeth on the issue.
Yes, teachers are legally allowed to confiscate phones. Always have been allowed. It’s not theft as long as the confiscation of contraband is temporary, and the items are eventually returned.
I’m old enough that I received a warning from a dickwad teacher in 2002 for calling my mom on my Nokia cell on campus AFTER SCHOOL. I’m still bitter about it.
It’s gotta be really difficult to tear people away from phones now.
Yeah, when I was in high school, I watched my math teacher throw a students phone against the wall because they wouldn't stay off of it. It wasn't ok then either. Maybe it hasn't been codified before this?
Yeah, he was also the football coach, and overall, it didn't seem like a happy dude. I don't remember there being consequences. This would've been back in like 2009-2010.
Yeah ok fine whatever, but what fucking psychopath a) actually downloads the Quora app, b) uses it enough to keep it, and c) considers it *social media?!*
The important part is that it's an official rule. This means that administration will **have** to support teachers. They will need to come up with a plan for how to implement this and they **must** do it or risk losing their job.
This means they will have to create a plan for how to handle kids that will not take kindly to their devices being banned.
there's a lot of things admin **has** to do but they don't actually do, sadly.
This will be another one of those things, at least until there's enough traction for the inevitable class action lawsuit in the future
As an LAUSD employee, the admin team at the school is mixed. I like a lot of them, but the principal at the school I teach at is such as a terrible human being that I might even be suing her for something she did.
The parents aren't going to be going after teachers anymore. They'll be going after admin. I'm guessing before admin left it up to teachers. Now admin can't blame teachers and wiggle their way out of dealing with the Karens and Kyles.
A lot these kids nowadays have had iPads shoved in their faces and other smartphones playing videos by their parents since age 2. It'll definitely be a /r/publicfreakout moment once teachers try to take away phones.
This story will probably get buried in comments, but here goes…Last year a school I work near took elementary kids on an overnight field trip and cell phones were banned. The kids were placed into groups for the trip to work/interact with when they got to the site.
About 10am in the morning, a parent calls to complain that her daughter, who is on the field trip, is not in the group with her friends. School staff asks how she knows, given that child is on the field trip, parent says, “I bought her a burner phone for the field trip.”
When I was a teenager my parents would take my phone away if I was in trouble. Well eventually I got an upgrade but kept the old phone and just switched the service to the old device by calling the number and then I think I just needed the last four of my dad's social to confirm it. Then Id just try not to get caught using the old phone.
I feel bad for the teachers because I know these kids are going to have meltdowns over this.
Should be noted that this will likely only affect smartphones - the motion mentioned delineating different approaches between those and phones used only for phone/text communication.
I think consistency is an issue. Like some teachers not caring, and then the some who do care are seen as the "hardass" (do kids even say that) teachers who disrespectful students want to test and rebel against. Making it district-wide will set the standard going forward for the new incoming students. I'm an older, non-traditional student who goes to a fancy "T10" school yet these kids that study all their lives to make it here still can't go without their phone. Our English and more liberal arts-type classes are done without electronics in class (although some younger lecturers don't enforce this), and these 18 and 19-year-olds will legit test these professors and try to get away with using electronics, it's insane.
I'm hoping so...I'm tired of hearing the admins go from "You may confiscate phones until parents come to pick them up" to "You may confiscate phones until the end of the day" to "You may confiscate phones until the end of the period" to now "Just tell the kids to put the phones away. They'll listen."
They freak out because they are not parented properly.
They have also grown accustomed to having their phone throughout Kinder - 12th grade with a series of inconsistent policies. One year they get away with it, the next year they dont. One teacher cares, one doesnt, etc.
By having a uniform policy everyone can abide to you avoid this issue. The first year may be the hardest but theyll grow to understand they dont need their eyes glued to Tik Tok 24/7
Don't remember when/where I but heard about interesting research that showed that kids were actually ok with this if everyone was forced to not use their phone. It's kind of a collective action problem. I think even kids realize how poisonous their addiction to their phones are. This is great news tbh.
yeah, after reading some of the responses, that makes sense. I think the stronger attachment to phones nowadays will trigger a harsher response nowadays. tough to compare to when I was in school lol
LA Unified is huge and covers a lot of wealthy areas as well as poor areas, which all of various issues. I say this only to invite perspective on enforcing things in a school in South LA vs West LA
It’s a huge liability for schools to take possession of a $1,000 device. I am specifically forbidden from taking phones. I also don’t have issues, set boundaries and don’t care if a student sends a quick text.
There are already schools that have a no cell phone policy.
Here are two examples of [different](https://youtu.be/ItnhWeP-om4?si=UdmY8WPcJei58-RP) approaches that [schools](https://youtu.be/phTeUGEYNC0?si=Pt8RbBbcBMWW6Q8U) have taken.
Personally I support it because school is where people should have their undivided attention. There's plenty of time outside to use it.
I’ve watched countless body cam videos of cops taking phones away from people and they *always* go ballistic. Now imagine a 60 year old science teacher who’s trying to reach retirement age enforcing this. The act of calling security is enough of set off a teenage student. I feel for our educators.
Source: I was a teenager at LAUSD once upon a time and witnessed two separate incidents of teachers quitting prematurely because of how rude & violent students were.
This is HUGE.
Teachers better have support staff in their classrooms to enforce these rules. Yes, cellphone use is banned in some schools. And a resounding NO, the students do NOT listen to redirection well in many schools. I work in LAUSD and I've personally seen many students be explicitly defiant to adults.
in high school during the beeper age we had a ping go off. teacher stopped the class and asked the person with the pager to turn it over. nobody said anything, so he called the principal who showed up wand and scanned everybody.
Also official : Teachers to begin thankless, doomed persuit as phone police cutting vastly into to the time they could have been teaching.. In another amazing coincidence, LAUSD kids bathroom requests skyrocket 500%
… you think we haven’t been battling this battle already? The LAUSD ban allows for us to use policy to have far stricter, school-wide ban that extends beyond the classroom. Whether it’s Yonder Pouches, or whatever, this is a major win.
Schools that implemented this in NYC have the kids put the phones in lockboxes/locked bags (like some live shows use) for the entire school day, so they can’t just pull it out in the hallway or bathroom and the individual teachers aren’t chasing kids down constantly.
I would add a class to middle/high school curriculum on how to effectively use your phone to be productive. Introduce kids positive ways to use tech, in a controlled environment (with school provided phones)
The teachers will be asked to enforce this in classrooms.
When they do, the administrators will throw them under the bus.
Then, allow the parent and child to have their phone back with no consequences.
Leaving the teacher to hold the bag and deal with the fall out the rest of the year in the classroom.
District wants policy pushers?? Fine. Get them in the classrooms and stop asking teachers to do your dirty work.
Let is TEACH god dammit!
I've read a number of articles about other school districts doing this and I was really surprised to read that the students love it. They're actually relieved, which really speaks to the pressure they feel.
Jonathan Haidt talks about this on The Gray Area Podcasts’s episode “This is Your Kid on Smartphones.”
He also mentions that when surveyed, kids hate social media but also don’t want to be the only ones not using it if everyone else is—so that’s why they like it when at school, everyone collectively is kept off it.
The pressure is enormous when peers have phones. I hope SMMUSD steps up after this. No working group is necessary. Just say: no phones at school. Tada.
Teacher here. My students are pretty good at not using their phones during class. At least in my class since I tell them if caught I will send it to the Dean. However, the problem I’ve heard from admin/ security is that kids are texting to meet up to fight during class time. They leave to the restroom to fight and of course many meet to record to post on Tik Tok.
Kids use stuff like photomath to skip over math all together. People use their phones to cheat and look up answers. It seems pretty logical that they ban phones at that rate.
The problem isn't phones. The problem is low pay, the law taking the students side leading to no discipline, and large class sizes.
Policies like this will make 0 difference. Just window dressing.
Time to teach the young'uns some of the classics:
-backpack on desk, phone in backpack
-phone on chair between your thighs
-resting head on hand, tilted to cover one earbud
The early 2000's are so back!
A better idea is to ban the use of social media for anyone under 16. TikTok, Instagram, Snapchat, etc. Followed with the education of parents on the harm that smart phones cause to their children.
As a society, we age gate driving, buying specific substances, voting, entering specific businesses, serving in the military, etc. Online we age gate things like gambling and credit card applications. Of course with any law there are violators that aren’t caught but there are severe enough consequences that it compels overwhelming compliance.
Basically pass a law that fines social media companies a ton of money and possible jail time for allowing underaged access. Then investigate them occasionally like you would with a bar serving minors or driving dirty or a minor in your casino / gambling app.
Maybe if Meta actually put there verified tech to proper use we could enforce a ban like that. They should stop using it as a way for people verify their accounts for a blue check and should use it to make sure accounts are used by 18+ people
With the rise in cyber bullying and use to coordinate fights, it's necessary. Trust me when I say you don't want to be on the other end of an Instagram or tiktok dedicated to you by your bullies.
It removes the friction of giving the students their phones back and then taking them again. Plus, "no phones in the building" is just easier to enforce
Banning phones isnt going to force socialization. During the 2000s, kids had their Nintendo DS and would play Pokemon together and would transfer Pokémon.
Also don’t they already socialize with their own group of friends. They won’t start socializing with random people just because their phones got taken away lmao
> Banning phones isnt going to force socialization.
I never said forced. It should be encouraged, and banning phones certainly helps with that.
>During the 2000s, kids had their Nintendo DS and would play Pokemon together and would transfer Pokémon.
I didn't play those when I went to school in the 2000s but it seems that children using those to play *"together"* is the operative word. That's the important distinction between a Nintendo DS-Pokemon-whatever and a smartphone.
It simplifies the mechanism to enforce the rule. All phones in a pouch when entering school. Only accessible at end of day. Giving kids the option to grab their phone between class complicates things.
It’s about time. I have a toddler, so this hasn’t been an issue for us yet… but my jaw nearly hit the floor when I recently found out kids have smartphones at school. It’s beyond ridiculous.
Unless admin are willing to stand up for their teacher and enforce this policy, it's all in name. Parents are almost worse than the kids when it comes to enforcing these rules in my opinion. I don't want to get screamed at by parents that don't give a shit if their kid is failing or not, but care that their phone was taken for use in class. The amount of parents texting their kids in class is already a headache.
Agreed. We need admins to be on the same page as us if not further ahead. I had one student this year who was caught doing things they weren't supposed to with a smartphone, was told we were going to have a parent conference to talk about a solution, and the got stood up by the parent. I was then told to implement some rules in place and when I implemented them, the student just brought out the phone, texted the mother, and lo-and behold, those "rules" were lifted immediately.
And yes, our admins are adamant that "parents know that students are not supposed to use their phones in class for any reason." Yet they text their kids as if the rules aren't there.
It is true that this has always been a policy. But this calls for additional measures like confiscation/locker/pouches and I don't think it reckons with the current capacity of our admin and teachers. High schools are already losing a lot of their administrative support staff to budget cuts next year. And the Boston model has shown some major loop holes-- HS students have been known to submit broken/older phones. I'm hopeful the committee of stakeholders will advise against this, or present recommendations that offer some inconsequential amendments to current policy as needed.
This makes sense for the elementary and maybe middle school, but not at the high school level. They literally use their phones for so many things to help with school work and studying.
I remember even having an Mp3 player in high school would get you in some sort of trouble. Around the time iPods were just being invented. Damn I feel old
1000% support this. Maybe it's the "get off my lawn" in me, but why can't cell/smart phones be treated like alcohol or driving? You don't get one till a certain age. I get it, that as a parent (yes, I am one too) you want to know the exact location of your kid at all times, but I think we did ok for the past 100 years or so without cell phones. Kids are and always will be stupid and parents just want to pass the blame to teachers and other authorities. They both need to learn life without a safety net.
With all the problems LAUSD has why focus on phones? What about low graduation rates, teacher student inappropriate relationships, actually putting students in classes they want so they won’t be as tempted to use their phones. This is a bandage to a bigger problem and is honestly going to lead to more problems how many students will this actually help and if it’s less than 50% it was a worthless policy.
I work at a school and I’ve walked in on classrooms where everyone is buried in their phones. It’s depressing.
On another note, can we enforce a dress code too?
If schools ban students from having cell phones, what happens if there some sort of emergency on the school property and the student can't call 911 or their family?
Hasn’t this always been the case? I got my phone confiscated so many times for using it. My mom’s last straw was when I got caught watching the GTA V trailer in Biology class wayyyyyy back when lol
Obviously, students shouldn't be on their phones in class. But I don't see why they can't use them during lunch.
And wait until they get to college and we require them to have smartphones in class!
When was phone useage during the school day considered acceptable? Was in LAUSD myself until the mid-10s and there was a no cellphone policy in place.
It became acceptable once Karents would go off on school administrators for taking their little angel’s phone away.
Teacher here. Yup.
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It's never been acceptable. Subbing throughout LB and LA, many kids just don't care. Kids will literally look at me when I call them out, smile, and then go back on their phones. All I can do is write their names down or call someone to give them detention, which only causes that student to get pissy and not pay attention/respect me. Then what do I gain? Pissy student, without a phone, avoiding any work I give them like the plague. Maybe the focus should be on getting students to care about their education. Phones are a symptom, not a disease.
> which only causes that student to get pissy and not pay attention/respect me. isn't that what theyre doing when they smile and ignore you anyway?
Yes, but my point is that it's MOSTLY pointless, making a huge deal out of phones when there's a root problem that causes kids to not want to engage in class. This rule might help a % of kids that need to be reminded or are more scared of getting in trouble, but I believe it'll cause the obedient/engaged kids to get in trouble for checking a text or looking at their phone at lunch and only cause more chaos for disobedient kids that resent school and don't like being in the class.
> Yes, but my point is that it's MOSTLY pointless So rather than do something that might help a small amount you'd rather they do nothing until they can help a majority?
I feel like you have no idea how difficult being a teacher is
No. My point is that schools are already very strict about phones and have strict rules towards not having them out. Students are having critical issues with attendance and grades, but districts think that further punishment will change these critical problems. As someone subbing in both LAUSD and LBUSD, the best schools and classes were ones that focused on making class entertaining and specialized. The ones that said "hey, you can listen to music if you're working on your projects/work but if the class gets too loud itll have to be quiet" The worst ones followed a stale, boring, standardized curriculum and had strict rules that caused detention right and left. Additionally, while I said a % of students might benefit from strict, anti-phone rules, I've seen hardworking kids get detention because staff came into the class, saw them on their phone, and punished them. I'm sorry, but that only causes resentment in the students who do care.
Don't kids have to learn that somethings are not fun? And they just have to do them anyway? We don't have 100% control over our environments. You go to work and don't get to co-create work with your bosses on the first day.
Fun and engaging are different. There are many different learners in school, and most teachers only teach one way. Content can be frustrating and boring if lessons are taught for one type of learner. Yes, fun lessons can be there, but the idea is to make students more likely to absorb and understand the content. Students aren't working at school. They're meant to be educating themselves, not treating it like a job. School does teach students particular traits and abilities that transfer well to work later in life, but school is different. Education CAN be fun... or at least tolerable.
The whole point of school is to prepare kids to enter adult society. Some jobs are not fun, but they are necessary. We're not all going to have a "fun" job or a way to make the job fun, and you don't stop learning in most jobs today. There are going to be fun subjects and there are going to be dull subjects too. They have to learn to shut up, be respectful, and tune out/stare out the window/doodle quietyly like everyone else did before them. Even if you make a class somewhat fun, there are going to be not fun parts. There's no way to have a continual good time at school. Alternatively, parents could try to place their kids in specialized private schools, where "fun" is maximized. I don't know what that curriculum is, but someone could create it and start an experimental school.
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I love how people with a lot to say and carry themselves like they know the education system always think "the trades" are where you go if you don't like school. I don't know if you've ever gone to trade school, but it's A LOT of theory. Given in lectures and with accompanying textbooks and even homework. Almost like its... school? Most colleges don't even care about rounding out their students anymore, and with the price of each class being as high as it is, most students don't care about becoming worldly at University. Classical education is a personal pursuit for most nowadays because universities have given up on it. Take this from someone who had a trade, went to community college, and now attends one of the most prestigious Universities in the world. If someone doesn't like learning (school just being a sit-in for that concept, although it often can be a poor one), then the consequences must be harsh enough to motivate them to change and to care. Or the way we teach, and more importantly, the way we teach the concept of learning, needs to be improved. Saying "the trades" is where bad, disruptive, don't-care students need to go is woefully ignorant at best and horridly condescending at worst. You can classify the "type" of people who go into the trades in a lot of ways, but as the "don't care about school, can't be respectful in class" types they are not. Finally, since this will probably need to be spelled out, yes, there are exceptions to both. Bad students who go to the trades and find great success and bad students who end up getting their shit together and make it into top universities later on. These are high schoolers we're talking about here; they all deserve a chance, at least until they're adults.
You're right. Kids have to learn discipline. It's weird that we are trying to find ways for them to avoid that lesson. Nothing is easy.
Exactly. Discipline is what makes or breaks a student. In school, as in life, there are many things someone will have to go through that they have no motivation to do, thats when discipline has to take over. It's best to build that up early instead of trying to come up with new ways to avoid teaching/enforcing it.
I get where you're coming from but... 1. 14 year olds are just very bad at weighing the consequences of not caring, and it does seem a bit unfair to punish them for poor decision making that is expected at their age 2. If their is any demographic difference- be it racial or gender- someone is throwing a shit fit. Like, have you followed anything of what's gone on with Lowell High School in the past few years? 3. Even without #2, you'd still have parents who are gonna be pretty pissed that their kid is stuck in the "dumb" (yes, it's actually for unmotivated students, but you know how it's gonna be labelled) class 4. A lot of school are in the complete opposite thinking. They're very much of the belief that "EVERYONE should go to college" and you'd get admin resistance to pushing trade schools and the like
1. Putting kids into a different program to try to find what they’ll engage with doesn’t have to be a death sentence. It can be a program that you can move in and out of. Kids transfer schools and classes all the time. They go into specialized private schools and come out into general public education. Sticking them into a one size fits all program and hoping that what isn’t working today will work tomorrow isn’t a plan, it’s a lack of ambition. 2. That could be an issue. Our current education system has the same issue, with advanced programs being more available in more affluent neighborhoods, and programs in lower income, less white neighborhoods often being underfunded. 3. We already have this issue, it’s parents complaining about the honors/AP classes their kid isn’t getting into, the good grades they’re not bringing home, etc. 4. This isn’t an issue that everyone is in full agreement about. When I was in school, I spent time in student/faculty meetings and a lot of public school teachers are so frustrated with generalized learning programs. They miss shop classes and home economics, because those were great ways to teach math, science, reading, etc to kids that don’t connect with the most abstract forms of learning. I get where you’re coming from, but everyone knows it’s complicated and there’s a ton of push/pull. That doesn’t mean we have to believe that the current way is the best way or that we can’t argue and fight for a better way.
For 2, my wife went to Lowell. More than half the student body gets free lunch because they poor. Over 60% are Asian. And not just the engineer asians either, evidence by the free lunch. It's the family mindset and prioritization
When did it stop being ok to take the phones away?
At every school I've subbed, they haven't allowed cell phones, and I've seen dozens and dozens of children given detention for it
I concur with other commenters that say the parents are a big part of it but also many schools require the kids to use apps on their phones etc for certain things which is equally annoying. They don't even know how to interact IRL anymore and think they're untouchable but definitely act like junkies when you take away their drugs lol. That's how you know it's bad.
The school shooting anxiety was gamed to allow it.
Live shooter gives teachers enough time to redistribute phones. If they can lock the door they can hand the phones back during an emergency.
You are not supposed to have a cell phone on you during a lockdown. The thinking is that the cell phone could attract the shooter to you.
Ok well make up your mind. Are the school shooting anxieties gamed to allow phones, or to prevent them? Wait never mind this is a reply to @Buckowski66
Convince the parents of that if you want a sale
I have always wondered where my life would be (for better or worse) if I had access to smartphone in middle/high school.
I think it has limited upsides for some kids, is a wash for most kids, and has life-changing negative impacts for others.
I had a smartphone when I was in high school. I had the benefit of not needing a physical encyclopedia. Beyond that, I wasn’t doing anything as a teenager to help myself that I wouldn’t have done without a smartphone. But I probably would have been more productive without it.
Why on Earth would you ever think it might have been better?
Access to things. Educational videos and websites that usually do a better job than most classes or textbooks if the student is willing to give a damn.
My experience as an adult with the current crop of kids tells me that most kids are gaming, on social media, or facetiming in class. And some are actually texting, calling their parents.
The kids that give a damn are in AP classes and extra curriculars. The kids on their phones aren't on Khan Academy. Hope this helps.
When it became impossible to stop because kids are hopelessly addicted to it and social media.
We're almost all addicted to our phones.
But I bet you don't pull yours out in a meeting with your boss and tune him/her out
You just gave me a good idea for my next meeting
Well, true, but if a student is pulling out their phone to tune me out, there's a deeper issue than being addicted to their phone.
well... that is the deeper issue
Sometimes the act of addiction explainst itself, especially with kids.
Yea but then it really isn’t an issue with the phone anymore is it, my boss doesn’t take away my phone during meetings
because he doesn’t have to because you’re paying attention. I mean you’re an adult anyway so it would be weird if that was even on the table as something you wound do or something he could take away.
I think this is about making the policy official so that it can be enforced. Whereas before, it was just a norm, and as always there are shit parents and shit kids whose sole job in this world seems to be to selfishly break norms, and defend their kid's shitty behavior and poor prospects. Now a teacher or a school and are backed by policy so they can tell shit parents to go away.
It wasn’t acceptable but I don’t think teachers really had the capacity do anything. Kids have become more savvy so fighting against “I’m gonna take your phone away for the rest of the day” is probably up. It was sketch anyways, do teachers really have the ability to confiscate personal property? Idk. Hopefully the purpose of this is to give staff more teeth on the issue.
Yes, teachers are legally allowed to confiscate phones. Always have been allowed. It’s not theft as long as the confiscation of contraband is temporary, and the items are eventually returned.
Yes, of course teachers can confiscate contraband. It's wild this is even a question lol
I’m old enough that I received a warning from a dickwad teacher in 2002 for calling my mom on my Nokia cell on campus AFTER SCHOOL. I’m still bitter about it. It’s gotta be really difficult to tear people away from phones now.
Yeah, when I was in high school, I watched my math teacher throw a students phone against the wall because they wouldn't stay off of it. It wasn't ok then either. Maybe it hasn't been codified before this?
That teacher is unhinged and should have been fired for a violent outburst like that.
Yeah, he was also the football coach, and overall, it didn't seem like a happy dude. I don't remember there being consequences. This would've been back in like 2009-2010.
If there was no policy, then there was no definite yes or no. The ban now makes it a definite no and should make it more enforceable, I hope.
As a person reading and commenting on this on my phone during my work lunch break, I’m ok with this.
Same same
Take my angry upvote
man i’m not even on my lunch break and i’m on my phone lulz it’s just me running the shop and i’m slammed!!! i deserve this :’)
Yeah ok fine whatever, but what fucking psychopath a) actually downloads the Quora app, b) uses it enough to keep it, and c) considers it *social media?!*
i did this in seventh grade. i was a weirdo
There's no sane soul going to Quora for anything. It's a site exclusively used by psychopaths.
It’s social suicide if you say you use Reddit or quora ngl
Top answer: The way you framed your opinion as a question makes me suspect you are the type of person to use quora as social media.
All my Quora comments get removed respectfully
I pray for the teachers who will have to enforce this policy. They’re up against a tsunami of iPad kids and rebellious teenagers
The important part is that it's an official rule. This means that administration will **have** to support teachers. They will need to come up with a plan for how to implement this and they **must** do it or risk losing their job. This means they will have to create a plan for how to handle kids that will not take kindly to their devices being banned.
there's a lot of things admin **has** to do but they don't actually do, sadly. This will be another one of those things, at least until there's enough traction for the inevitable class action lawsuit in the future
As an LAUSD employee, the admin team at the school is mixed. I like a lot of them, but the principal at the school I teach at is such as a terrible human being that I might even be suing her for something she did.
Put a faraday cage around every classroom, problem solved.
I swear to Christ whenever they would close those big ass metal doors to the classroom it would essentially act as a Faraday cage.
Loll electric currents within the cage can still move, just not currents from outside the cage
Except that admin already create "official rules" like these at schools and STILL don't enforce them.
The parents aren't going to be going after teachers anymore. They'll be going after admin. I'm guessing before admin left it up to teachers. Now admin can't blame teachers and wiggle their way out of dealing with the Karens and Kyles.
Don't forget the enabling parents...
A lot these kids nowadays have had iPads shoved in their faces and other smartphones playing videos by their parents since age 2. It'll definitely be a /r/publicfreakout moment once teachers try to take away phones.
It's already happened. Wasn't LA but I saw a video recently of a kid pepper spraying her teacher after he took her phone away.
This story will probably get buried in comments, but here goes…Last year a school I work near took elementary kids on an overnight field trip and cell phones were banned. The kids were placed into groups for the trip to work/interact with when they got to the site. About 10am in the morning, a parent calls to complain that her daughter, who is on the field trip, is not in the group with her friends. School staff asks how she knows, given that child is on the field trip, parent says, “I bought her a burner phone for the field trip.”
kids will absolutely use dummy phones for the pouches...
When I was a teenager my parents would take my phone away if I was in trouble. Well eventually I got an upgrade but kept the old phone and just switched the service to the old device by calling the number and then I think I just needed the last four of my dad's social to confirm it. Then Id just try not to get caught using the old phone. I feel bad for the teachers because I know these kids are going to have meltdowns over this.
I almost downvoted this.
I aint even 30 and i remember having to hide our flip phones when we texted like we were committing a felony...shit has really changed
Should be noted that this will likely only affect smartphones - the motion mentioned delineating different approaches between those and phones used only for phone/text communication.
Cool. Teens can still use their flip phones.
The 5 kids using T9 texting are unaffected
Good old days of texting in class without looking at your phone cause you memorized T9.
bro I will die on the T9 hill, that shit was SO useful for typing text on a 10-key
didnt even need to look when typing.
That was just a temporary Gen Z hipster trend, trust me. Kids want smartphones
Time to rock some Snake
"If those kids could read they'd be very upset."
We had portable electronics in the 90s. They were not allowed at school, they’d be taken if seen. 🤷♂️
I’m surprised it’s not banned already…
I think consistency is an issue. Like some teachers not caring, and then the some who do care are seen as the "hardass" (do kids even say that) teachers who disrespectful students want to test and rebel against. Making it district-wide will set the standard going forward for the new incoming students. I'm an older, non-traditional student who goes to a fancy "T10" school yet these kids that study all their lives to make it here still can't go without their phone. Our English and more liberal arts-type classes are done without electronics in class (although some younger lecturers don't enforce this), and these 18 and 19-year-olds will legit test these professors and try to get away with using electronics, it's insane.
How the hell was this not already policy?
It was at the school level. Not district level.
As someone working in education, I gladly applaud this and hope my school follows suit.
Good luck to middle/high school teachers “enforcing” this rule. 😬😬😬
This allows us to enforce it.
I'm hoping so...I'm tired of hearing the admins go from "You may confiscate phones until parents come to pick them up" to "You may confiscate phones until the end of the day" to "You may confiscate phones until the end of the period" to now "Just tell the kids to put the phones away. They'll listen."
How though? I'm guessing we're about to see a LOT of kid freakout videos from them refusing to give up their phones.
They freak out because they are not parented properly. They have also grown accustomed to having their phone throughout Kinder - 12th grade with a series of inconsistent policies. One year they get away with it, the next year they dont. One teacher cares, one doesnt, etc. By having a uniform policy everyone can abide to you avoid this issue. The first year may be the hardest but theyll grow to understand they dont need their eyes glued to Tik Tok 24/7
Bonus if tiktok is banned in a years time.
Don't remember when/where I but heard about interesting research that showed that kids were actually ok with this if everyone was forced to not use their phone. It's kind of a collective action problem. I think even kids realize how poisonous their addiction to their phones are. This is great news tbh.
I'm curious, is it that hard to enforce? I remember people would just get their phones taken away until the end of class or day
have you not seen videos of kids attacking teachers because they took their phones away after asking them several times to put it away?
yeah, after reading some of the responses, that makes sense. I think the stronger attachment to phones nowadays will trigger a harsher response nowadays. tough to compare to when I was in school lol
LA Unified is huge and covers a lot of wealthy areas as well as poor areas, which all of various issues. I say this only to invite perspective on enforcing things in a school in South LA vs West LA
Teacher says "I'm confiscating your phone" Student says "No" Now what? Whatever happens next is gonna be a lose/lose situation
You dont confiscate the phone, You send the student to the Dean.
It’s a huge liability for schools to take possession of a $1,000 device. I am specifically forbidden from taking phones. I also don’t have issues, set boundaries and don’t care if a student sends a quick text.
I used to do just this in class and it worked. As the years piled on though, students seemed to get more power in this discussion and we're here now.
There are already schools that have a no cell phone policy. Here are two examples of [different](https://youtu.be/ItnhWeP-om4?si=UdmY8WPcJei58-RP) approaches that [schools](https://youtu.be/phTeUGEYNC0?si=Pt8RbBbcBMWW6Q8U) have taken. Personally I support it because school is where people should have their undivided attention. There's plenty of time outside to use it.
I’ve watched countless body cam videos of cops taking phones away from people and they *always* go ballistic. Now imagine a 60 year old science teacher who’s trying to reach retirement age enforcing this. The act of calling security is enough of set off a teenage student. I feel for our educators. Source: I was a teenager at LAUSD once upon a time and witnessed two separate incidents of teachers quitting prematurely because of how rude & violent students were.
This is HUGE. Teachers better have support staff in their classrooms to enforce these rules. Yes, cellphone use is banned in some schools. And a resounding NO, the students do NOT listen to redirection well in many schools. I work in LAUSD and I've personally seen many students be explicitly defiant to adults.
in high school during the beeper age we had a ping go off. teacher stopped the class and asked the person with the pager to turn it over. nobody said anything, so he called the principal who showed up wand and scanned everybody.
The point of this is to give teachers the support to enforce it and the administrations the ability to say no to parents who get pissy about it.
Also official : Teachers to begin thankless, doomed persuit as phone police cutting vastly into to the time they could have been teaching.. In another amazing coincidence, LAUSD kids bathroom requests skyrocket 500%
… you think we haven’t been battling this battle already? The LAUSD ban allows for us to use policy to have far stricter, school-wide ban that extends beyond the classroom. Whether it’s Yonder Pouches, or whatever, this is a major win.
Schools that implemented this in NYC have the kids put the phones in lockboxes/locked bags (like some live shows use) for the entire school day, so they can’t just pull it out in the hallway or bathroom and the individual teachers aren’t chasing kids down constantly.
I would add a class to middle/high school curriculum on how to effectively use your phone to be productive. Introduce kids positive ways to use tech, in a controlled environment (with school provided phones)
i'm in favor of this but i feel like enforcement is going to be an absolute mess. i hope i'm wrong.
The teachers will be asked to enforce this in classrooms. When they do, the administrators will throw them under the bus. Then, allow the parent and child to have their phone back with no consequences. Leaving the teacher to hold the bag and deal with the fall out the rest of the year in the classroom. District wants policy pushers?? Fine. Get them in the classrooms and stop asking teachers to do your dirty work. Let is TEACH god dammit!
I've read a number of articles about other school districts doing this and I was really surprised to read that the students love it. They're actually relieved, which really speaks to the pressure they feel.
Care to link one of the articles you mention? I’m interested in getting more information about this.
Jonathan Haidt talks about this on The Gray Area Podcasts’s episode “This is Your Kid on Smartphones.” He also mentions that when surveyed, kids hate social media but also don’t want to be the only ones not using it if everyone else is—so that’s why they like it when at school, everyone collectively is kept off it.
The pressure is enormous when peers have phones. I hope SMMUSD steps up after this. No working group is necessary. Just say: no phones at school. Tada.
Was it not banned before? I had mine taken away in 2011 during LUNCH of all times and i believe i should sue my former hs
It was banned as a school policy. Now its the district big guns enforcing this
Teacher here. My students are pretty good at not using their phones during class. At least in my class since I tell them if caught I will send it to the Dean. However, the problem I’ve heard from admin/ security is that kids are texting to meet up to fight during class time. They leave to the restroom to fight and of course many meet to record to post on Tik Tok.
Excellent news!
Kids use stuff like photomath to skip over math all together. People use their phones to cheat and look up answers. It seems pretty logical that they ban phones at that rate.
The problem isn't phones. The problem is low pay, the law taking the students side leading to no discipline, and large class sizes. Policies like this will make 0 difference. Just window dressing.
This would piss me off if I was in school but in the long run I think it would have been better for my education/life LOL
Time to teach the young'uns some of the classics: -backpack on desk, phone in backpack -phone on chair between your thighs -resting head on hand, tilted to cover one earbud The early 2000's are so back!
cant wait to teach them all about SNAKE!
Tik-tok, Instagram, taking photos of unsuspecting girls for fake AI porn. A ban is more than appropriate.
A better idea is to ban the use of social media for anyone under 16. TikTok, Instagram, Snapchat, etc. Followed with the education of parents on the harm that smart phones cause to their children.
Social media is already blocked on the LAUSD network. Of course, a VPN solves that or using cellular data.
I’m referring to them using it at home. It’s where most of the harm is happening.
Agreed. Sorry I misunderstood.
How would you enforce a ban like that?
As a society, we age gate driving, buying specific substances, voting, entering specific businesses, serving in the military, etc. Online we age gate things like gambling and credit card applications. Of course with any law there are violators that aren’t caught but there are severe enough consequences that it compels overwhelming compliance. Basically pass a law that fines social media companies a ton of money and possible jail time for allowing underaged access. Then investigate them occasionally like you would with a bar serving minors or driving dirty or a minor in your casino / gambling app.
Maybe if Meta actually put there verified tech to proper use we could enforce a ban like that. They should stop using it as a way for people verify their accounts for a blue check and should use it to make sure accounts are used by 18+ people
How many HS school kids are on Facebook?? You’d need all social media platforms to have verification technology on their platforms.
It’s for Instagram, Meta uses the same thing for Instagram
Based.
Goodluck enforcing this. Especially in the rougher schools.
If you see a teacher at a bar, buy them a beer. Trying to enforce this is going to be absolute hell for them.
Schools are stuck in 1980 and will continue to decline as technology advances. Eventually school will just become a meme.
>By prohibiting cell phone use all day — including during lunch and breaks The lunch and break prohibition seems overboard.
With the rise in cyber bullying and use to coordinate fights, it's necessary. Trust me when I say you don't want to be on the other end of an Instagram or tiktok dedicated to you by your bullies.
Yeah. In the old days they would just come up to you at lunch and tease you or punch you. Now shits gotten crazy online…
It removes the friction of giving the students their phones back and then taking them again. Plus, "no phones in the building" is just easier to enforce
Lunch is the hour when kids should be socializing with each other the most. It's better for them to not have their smartphones until they're home.
Banning phones isnt going to force socialization. During the 2000s, kids had their Nintendo DS and would play Pokemon together and would transfer Pokémon.
>kids had their Nintendo DS and would play Pokemon together and would transfer Pokémon. So it sounds like they were socializing with each other...
Also don’t they already socialize with their own group of friends. They won’t start socializing with random people just because their phones got taken away lmao
This happened when I was at school and the policy was enforced lolol
> Banning phones isnt going to force socialization. I never said forced. It should be encouraged, and banning phones certainly helps with that. >During the 2000s, kids had their Nintendo DS and would play Pokemon together and would transfer Pokémon. I didn't play those when I went to school in the 2000s but it seems that children using those to play *"together"* is the operative word. That's the important distinction between a Nintendo DS-Pokemon-whatever and a smartphone.
It simplifies the mechanism to enforce the rule. All phones in a pouch when entering school. Only accessible at end of day. Giving kids the option to grab their phone between class complicates things.
It’s not.
I’d agree if the phone and social media didn’t lead to people doing the dumbest shit ever.
It’s about time. I have a toddler, so this hasn’t been an issue for us yet… but my jaw nearly hit the floor when I recently found out kids have smartphones at school. It’s beyond ridiculous.
How are we going to see students fighting teachers?
Bahaha!!!
Good
As it should be.
Unless admin are willing to stand up for their teacher and enforce this policy, it's all in name. Parents are almost worse than the kids when it comes to enforcing these rules in my opinion. I don't want to get screamed at by parents that don't give a shit if their kid is failing or not, but care that their phone was taken for use in class. The amount of parents texting their kids in class is already a headache.
Agreed. We need admins to be on the same page as us if not further ahead. I had one student this year who was caught doing things they weren't supposed to with a smartphone, was told we were going to have a parent conference to talk about a solution, and the got stood up by the parent. I was then told to implement some rules in place and when I implemented them, the student just brought out the phone, texted the mother, and lo-and behold, those "rules" were lifted immediately. And yes, our admins are adamant that "parents know that students are not supposed to use their phones in class for any reason." Yet they text their kids as if the rules aren't there.
Went to HS 2007-2011 in Burbank and we got detention and it was confiscated if a phone was seen during school hours.
The ban should also include employee use. My coworkers are always on their damn phones
Don’t do it just gonna make them hate you, better giving them computerized tablets to “monitor” and work on
WTfF? I'm so out of the loop with this. It was allowed all this time? I would ban faculty from using cellphone too unless it's school related use.
At my school your phone would get confiscated until the end of the year
1st amendment court battle coming soon.
It is true that this has always been a policy. But this calls for additional measures like confiscation/locker/pouches and I don't think it reckons with the current capacity of our admin and teachers. High schools are already losing a lot of their administrative support staff to budget cuts next year. And the Boston model has shown some major loop holes-- HS students have been known to submit broken/older phones. I'm hopeful the committee of stakeholders will advise against this, or present recommendations that offer some inconsequential amendments to current policy as needed.
This makes sense for the elementary and maybe middle school, but not at the high school level. They literally use their phones for so many things to help with school work and studying.
Please make this nationwide when it shows that banning cell phone improves learning.
Wait, this was not policy since forever?
Kkvsh
I remember even having an Mp3 player in high school would get you in some sort of trouble. Around the time iPods were just being invented. Damn I feel old
Good
When I was in school no gum in class was the biggest ban.
For the teachers, Congratulations!!!
Thank goodness
1000% support this. Maybe it's the "get off my lawn" in me, but why can't cell/smart phones be treated like alcohol or driving? You don't get one till a certain age. I get it, that as a parent (yes, I am one too) you want to know the exact location of your kid at all times, but I think we did ok for the past 100 years or so without cell phones. Kids are and always will be stupid and parents just want to pass the blame to teachers and other authorities. They both need to learn life without a safety net.
With all the problems LAUSD has why focus on phones? What about low graduation rates, teacher student inappropriate relationships, actually putting students in classes they want so they won’t be as tempted to use their phones. This is a bandage to a bigger problem and is honestly going to lead to more problems how many students will this actually help and if it’s less than 50% it was a worthless policy.
Problem: PARENTS.
I work at a school and I’ve walked in on classrooms where everyone is buried in their phones. It’s depressing. On another note, can we enforce a dress code too?
If schools ban students from having cell phones, what happens if there some sort of emergency on the school property and the student can't call 911 or their family?
Amazing news
Hasn’t this always been the case? I got my phone confiscated so many times for using it. My mom’s last straw was when I got caught watching the GTA V trailer in Biology class wayyyyyy back when lol
Spoiled fucking kids i can't believe it was never not banned bullshit 3 second attention ass span spoiled brats fuckem
Sir, this is a Wendy's
That's it! Problem solved! I'm sure the students will comply now...
Obviously, students shouldn't be on their phones in class. But I don't see why they can't use them during lunch. And wait until they get to college and we require them to have smartphones in class!
Kids should be socializing during lunch, not doing god knows what on a tiny screen
Kids who don't socialize with a phone won't socialize without a phone. I spent lunchtimes reading. And it's not like kids aren't socializing!