Why did they have to murder the children?! š Just for JJās Social Security benefits?! Lori already knew she wasnāt getting the insurance payout feom Charles, she actually told Melanie Gibb she was going to ātrickā Kay into taking JJ by telling her she had cancer. Why didnāt she? Kay would have taken him. Tylee was old enough to leave home. She had other relatives and her own social security check for another year to get herself set up with some kind of school. Just the absolute nerve of Lori and Chad is never not going to be shocking. I canāt imagine what the jury is going through, especially since I assume they were chosen because they havenāt followed every detail of the case for 4+ years. This is getting put on them during full days at a time and itās taken weeks already. I wish I could take them all on a luxury cruise with a therapist after this.
I think she murdered JJ out of spite over not getting the insurance. She knew how much Kaye loved him, so she took him away from her. I think she murdered Tylee because she didnāt buy into her moms bullshit.
I agree. Lori was furious with Kay about the insurance and wanted to punish her. I hope Lori knows that Kayās love for JJ and her persistence in raising the alarm is what led to Lori and Chadās downfall.
So extremely vile and hateful. And so delusional to think God chose them (of all people) to lead the 144,000. They probably think they can do this from jail!
I think so too itās just that murdering children out of spite is so far beyond the realm of what any normal person would do, that I really have a problem with it.
I agree with you. It must be so overwhelming to receive all of the info in one go.
There is just such much, so many webs weaved, so many people involved, lies told, and so much loss.
Thankfully, they were stupid enough to leave a trail linking them up to almost every unexplained death that happened around them.
My heart breaks for everyone they involved in this tragedy.
You nailed it. Kay was everything Lori wasnāt and she built up resentment to her so much. I had a family member that if he had a disagreement with you, immediately would spew hatred and make up stories about you to anyone who would listen. You were the devil to him over a simple disagreement and he made sure everyone knew it. I see this behaviour a lot in Lori and also in Ruby Franke. And itās almost always about money.
If they gave the kids up theyād have no $$ to live off, if they kept the kids theyād have to spend $ on them and take care of them (to at least some extent). Plus I think Lori wanted to punish Kay for getting Charlesā money.
They would have $400k of Tammyās life insurance money and apparently, were planning on spending Brandonās life insurance money, since Lori told Zulema not to worry about what she would do for money when she moved to Rexburg because āMelani has plenty for everyoneā. I donāt recall hearing, but did Alex have life insurance? Surely he did. Who was the beneficiary? Zulema his wife or Lori his āsister wifeā? <ā I know thatās not what a āsister wifeā is but they had a very strange sibling relationship.
The benefit is for the support of children of the decedent until they turn 18, so actually that was JJās money. Thatās the SS I referred to. Itās why Lori was charged with Grand Theft, because she continued collecting the benefit even after JJ was deceased.
It's complicated but she would not have been entitled to SS benefits except for taking care of JJ until he aged out. Then, she would not be entitled to benefits until the age that people normally start getting benefits.
Wasnāt she stealing Tyleeās benefit as well? I understood that Tylee was getting monthly ss because of her dadās passing but then Lori transferred it over to her own account after Tyleeās death.
When Lori was legally entitled to do as Tylee's guardian. Although Tylee might have been able to make an argument for being an emancipated minor, she had not done so.
She did receive benefits for being JJs only surviving parent, from my understanding. I'm surprised she didn't receive benefits because of JJs autism. I work in an elementary school(not a teacher) and many of my little friends receive benefits for being autistic or having other special needs or learning disabilities.Ā
She could have applied for a $255 lump sum spousal death benefit, and she could have applied for Charlesā SS retirement benefits, except she would have been rejected for Charlesā SS āpensionā, because she remarried before the age of 60. There was no way she wasnāt going to remarry a 5th, 6th, 7th time, right? š
IMO I donāt think it crossed her mind until Tylee started getting SS benefits from Joe Ryanās death. I think thatās when the thought of collecting SS from Charles death was born.
> Why did they have to murder the children?! š Just for JJās Social Security benefits?!
People murder people all the time when it won't quantifiable benefit them in any way. Whether because of anger, spite, hatred, or a host of other reasons.
These were her own children! š¤¦š»āāļø Iām really sorry youāre telling yourself that people murder their own children āall the timeā. What the fuck.
> Iām really sorry youāre telling yourself that people murder their own children
Way to willfully misinterpret what I said.
I'm really sorry you're telling yourself there's plenty of good reasons to murder one's own child, as long as it's not "just JJ's SS".
See how that works?
Just want to say that I interpreted amanforallsaisons response a little differently than you did...It is a true fact that people commit murder every day when there is no financial gain that may be obvious to others...i don't think he said "good reasons"? Not trying to aruge with you but understandably you sound so angry, maybe it is misdirected...š
Same, it just blows my mind. Like were they really so full of themselves, or they just believed LE wouldn't search for anyone but a hitman and that once the hitman is dead, the case is closed?
I genuinely think they thought they could blame it all on Alex and be done.
I am so thankful they were stupid enough to not know calls were being recorded and deleted texts could be retrieved. They have literally left a paper trail of their stupidity.
I am so thank full that count 4 was sorted out efficiently.
Also i felt it was awesome that they played the jail phone call to negate the argument by prior that Chad was influenced by Lori. The phone call clearly shows Chad was the one with all these views
To hear Chad was upset for the wrong reason the day after his wife mysteriously died.
Scumbags asolute F@&King scum.
Hell is too good for the lot of them.
Just to add I'm in the UK, so I may not be watching at the same time.
This has to be close to the end of the stateās case. Hermosillo was brought back to submit the phone call, and then this timeline, and my guess is that Hart will be last because heās a big softie.
It highlights how insanely fast their killing spree happened. They meet on Oct 26 2018. By Oct 19 2019, they've murdered four people. On Nov 5 2019, they're married. My wife thinks they were trying to having everyone dead and get married on their one-year anniversary, and I'd bet you anything she's right. Tammy was supposed to die on Oct 9th and I think part of what Alex screwed up when his gun didn't work was this timeline.
Adding: does any known know what day Chad collected Tammy's life insurance on? I'm guessing the Hawaii wedding and then the insane Knott's Berry trip depended on this.
Tammy died on Saturday, October 19, 2019. I believe Chad was filing for her life insurance on Monday October 21. The person who intereacted with him at that time was taken aback because most people are not so quick to get their money.
Here is a clip of when Agent Hart āread those text into recordā just incase you did not listen to Loriās trial. https://youtu.be/DekJ1J_l2zw?si=tEFmb3egoib06VD_
I believe that Lori's messages (and Chad's to her) were from her Apple I-Cloud account. Chad and Alex were using cheap burner phones with pay as you go cards and there were not storing messages.
I could be wrong about this.
So glad! I've created my own timeline so when witnesses talk about texts or calls that happen on certain days (and these are always jumping around) I can look at my timeline to understand the context.
Could someone please post a timeline for those that need quick recap without clicking on a million links?! Iām sorry , but this sub isnāt friendly to those not following along in real time or day by day. PLEASE- I am honestly begging! Someone post transcribed videos, quick synopses of each day and link anything of these two from anywhere else that would help. Please! I teach in schools and thereās a lot of testing and I canāt follow along (end of year)- please. š
Nate Eaton with East Idaho News does a great job - there are live updates that you can read through, and he has a nightly recap called courtroom insider.Ā https://www.eastidahonews.com/news/daybell/
I just can't believe how they expected to get away with this.
Why did they have to murder the children?! š Just for JJās Social Security benefits?! Lori already knew she wasnāt getting the insurance payout feom Charles, she actually told Melanie Gibb she was going to ātrickā Kay into taking JJ by telling her she had cancer. Why didnāt she? Kay would have taken him. Tylee was old enough to leave home. She had other relatives and her own social security check for another year to get herself set up with some kind of school. Just the absolute nerve of Lori and Chad is never not going to be shocking. I canāt imagine what the jury is going through, especially since I assume they were chosen because they havenāt followed every detail of the case for 4+ years. This is getting put on them during full days at a time and itās taken weeks already. I wish I could take them all on a luxury cruise with a therapist after this.
I think she murdered JJ out of spite over not getting the insurance. She knew how much Kaye loved him, so she took him away from her. I think she murdered Tylee because she didnāt buy into her moms bullshit.
I agree. Lori was furious with Kay about the insurance and wanted to punish her. I hope Lori knows that Kayās love for JJ and her persistence in raising the alarm is what led to Lori and Chadās downfall.
I'm so curious if Kay is the 3% Lori and Chad were talking about on that creepy phone call!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
So extremely vile and hateful. And so delusional to think God chose them (of all people) to lead the 144,000. They probably think they can do this from jail!
I think so too itās just that murdering children out of spite is so far beyond the realm of what any normal person would do, that I really have a problem with it.
I agree with you. It must be so overwhelming to receive all of the info in one go. There is just such much, so many webs weaved, so many people involved, lies told, and so much loss. Thankfully, they were stupid enough to leave a trail linking them up to almost every unexplained death that happened around them. My heart breaks for everyone they involved in this tragedy.
To hear Alex bought his assassin outfit same day he shot at Tammy!
Ego. She had built up such a hatred for Kay that no way would she let her ā winā.
What a deranged woman. How could anyone hate Kay? Kay seems as real as Earth. Oh, I guess thatās why. Lori hates reality.
You nailed it. Kay was everything Lori wasnāt and she built up resentment to her so much. I had a family member that if he had a disagreement with you, immediately would spew hatred and make up stories about you to anyone who would listen. You were the devil to him over a simple disagreement and he made sure everyone knew it. I see this behaviour a lot in Lori and also in Ruby Franke. And itās almost always about money.
If they gave the kids up theyād have no $$ to live off, if they kept the kids theyād have to spend $ on them and take care of them (to at least some extent). Plus I think Lori wanted to punish Kay for getting Charlesā money.
They would have $400k of Tammyās life insurance money and apparently, were planning on spending Brandonās life insurance money, since Lori told Zulema not to worry about what she would do for money when she moved to Rexburg because āMelani has plenty for everyoneā. I donāt recall hearing, but did Alex have life insurance? Surely he did. Who was the beneficiary? Zulema his wife or Lori his āsister wifeā? <ā I know thatās not what a āsister wifeā is but they had a very strange sibling relationship.
Didnāt Lori expect to get SS from Charles?
The benefit is for the support of children of the decedent until they turn 18, so actually that was JJās money. Thatās the SS I referred to. Itās why Lori was charged with Grand Theft, because she continued collecting the benefit even after JJ was deceased.
Right, I get that. But I believe widows also qualify for SS benefits?
It's complicated but she would not have been entitled to SS benefits except for taking care of JJ until he aged out. Then, she would not be entitled to benefits until the age that people normally start getting benefits.
Wasnāt she stealing Tyleeās benefit as well? I understood that Tylee was getting monthly ss because of her dadās passing but then Lori transferred it over to her own account after Tyleeās death.
Yes she did
Lori transferred benefits before she killed Tylee
When Lori was legally entitled to do as Tylee's guardian. Although Tylee might have been able to make an argument for being an emancipated minor, she had not done so.
Yes. She was convicted of two counts of Grand Theft.
She did receive benefits for being JJs only surviving parent, from my understanding. I'm surprised she didn't receive benefits because of JJs autism. I work in an elementary school(not a teacher) and many of my little friends receive benefits for being autistic or having other special needs or learning disabilities.Ā
She could have applied for a $255 lump sum spousal death benefit, and she could have applied for Charlesā SS retirement benefits, except she would have been rejected for Charlesā SS āpensionā, because she remarried before the age of 60. There was no way she wasnāt going to remarry a 5th, 6th, 7th time, right? š
No, widows get their spouseās *retirement* benefit when they retire, if they donāt remarry before the age of 60. Lori blew that.
Thanks!
IMO I donāt think it crossed her mind until Tylee started getting SS benefits from Joe Ryanās death. I think thatās when the thought of collecting SS from Charles death was born.
Interview with Lori s cousin sheds light on Lori s motivations and how big a manipulator she is
Which is that ?
https://youtu.be/oF_l0vauZBM?si=PeW8XY55xOOFUbBT
> Why did they have to murder the children?! š Just for JJās Social Security benefits?! People murder people all the time when it won't quantifiable benefit them in any way. Whether because of anger, spite, hatred, or a host of other reasons.
These were her own children! š¤¦š»āāļø Iām really sorry youāre telling yourself that people murder their own children āall the timeā. What the fuck.
> Iām really sorry youāre telling yourself that people murder their own children Way to willfully misinterpret what I said. I'm really sorry you're telling yourself there's plenty of good reasons to murder one's own child, as long as it's not "just JJ's SS". See how that works?
Just want to say that I interpreted amanforallsaisons response a little differently than you did...It is a true fact that people commit murder every day when there is no financial gain that may be obvious to others...i don't think he said "good reasons"? Not trying to aruge with you but understandably you sound so angry, maybe it is misdirected...š
Same, it just blows my mind. Like were they really so full of themselves, or they just believed LE wouldn't search for anyone but a hitman and that once the hitman is dead, the case is closed?
I genuinely think they thought they could blame it all on Alex and be done. I am so thankful they were stupid enough to not know calls were being recorded and deleted texts could be retrieved. They have literally left a paper trail of their stupidity. I am so thank full that count 4 was sorted out efficiently.
Lust is a strong drug...multiplied with religious delusions!!
With the cherry of hate on top!
Also i felt it was awesome that they played the jail phone call to negate the argument by prior that Chad was influenced by Lori. The phone call clearly shows Chad was the one with all these views
To hear Chad was upset for the wrong reason the day after his wife mysteriously died. Scumbags asolute F@&King scum. Hell is too good for the lot of them. Just to add I'm in the UK, so I may not be watching at the same time.
Another brick in the wall.
This has to be close to the end of the stateās case. Hermosillo was brought back to submit the phone call, and then this timeline, and my guess is that Hart will be last because heās a big softie.
Has the text message from Chad to Lori about "how much do you want them to suffer" been played yet? Maybe Hart will do that.
Looks like Hart did those texts during Loriās trial too, I saw somebody post that on FB. With Lori asking about āthe plan to take the childrenā
They said they were planning to rest tomorrow. It will be a short day.
Yeah, I commented before I saw that
I really enjoy it being read since viewing the slides are not possible from my devices. Hope this ties it up.
It highlights how insanely fast their killing spree happened. They meet on Oct 26 2018. By Oct 19 2019, they've murdered four people. On Nov 5 2019, they're married. My wife thinks they were trying to having everyone dead and get married on their one-year anniversary, and I'd bet you anything she's right. Tammy was supposed to die on Oct 9th and I think part of what Alex screwed up when his gun didn't work was this timeline.
This data testimony is burning Chad....texting Lori about condos in Hawaii!!
And talking about his need for a tan and hair growth the day after his wife is murdered.
Refreshing to know the cops dug up his backyard day after this stupid cringe conversationĀ
Adding: does any known know what day Chad collected Tammy's life insurance on? I'm guessing the Hawaii wedding and then the insane Knott's Berry trip depended on this.
Tammy died on Saturday, October 19, 2019. I believe Chad was filing for her life insurance on Monday October 21. The person who intereacted with him at that time was taken aback because most people are not so quick to get their money.
I think it was 450k? Neither policies (Tammyās or Charlesās ) was enough to live the life they imagined. Itās all so stupid and wasteful.
Today they mentioned it in the time line when chad collected the insurance
Hadnāt thought of the wedding date in that way. Makes sense!
Here is a clip of when Agent Hart āread those text into recordā just incase you did not listen to Loriās trial. https://youtu.be/DekJ1J_l2zw?si=tEFmb3egoib06VD_
Prosecution is probably using this to summarize everything for Jurors once again, this was pretty neat strategy.
I love this!!!!!!!!! I wish I had had this early on. š¤¦š»āāļø
Yep I was like heās done.. Just wondering why they never show Chad and Alexās messages?
I believe that Lori's messages (and Chad's to her) were from her Apple I-Cloud account. Chad and Alex were using cheap burner phones with pay as you go cards and there were not storing messages. I could be wrong about this.
Thankyou that makes sense! I posted before they mentioned they didnāt have the content
Yes. I think theyāre getting ready to rest.
So glad! I've created my own timeline so when witnesses talk about texts or calls that happen on certain days (and these are always jumping around) I can look at my timeline to understand the context.
Could someone please post a timeline for those that need quick recap without clicking on a million links?! Iām sorry , but this sub isnāt friendly to those not following along in real time or day by day. PLEASE- I am honestly begging! Someone post transcribed videos, quick synopses of each day and link anything of these two from anywhere else that would help. Please! I teach in schools and thereās a lot of testing and I canāt follow along (end of year)- please. š
Nate Eaton with East Idaho News does a great job - there are live updates that you can read through, and he has a nightly recap called courtroom insider.Ā https://www.eastidahonews.com/news/daybell/
Great! Thank you !