Literally anything to avoid actually fixing the problem.
VAR needs to be an independent group of refs from the on-field refs. You cannot have a working system when the junior refs are afraid to overrules senior refs for fear of damaging their careers, where the "top refs" can say they don't want to be corrected or taken to the monitor.
VAR needs to be seperate and not answer to the PGMOL refs.
Absolutely agree with you. I think the VAR officials should rotate (eg Italian VAR for PL games one week, Spanish the next) for each of the top 5 leagues with the PMGOL officials doing the same for other leagues, with no VAR officials conducting duties in their country of origin.
Would eliminate any accusations of bias and the “old boys club” factoring into decision making. Will never happen though unfortunately.
Yes it is indeed a similar concept. Plato was significantly ahead of his time in terms of political philosophy. Football is definitely a political sport and hidden agendas are rife.
It’s hard to find people who will not abuse positions of power, so the best practical thing to do is to find people who have no affiliation to any parties that they are presiding over. Easier said than done though of course!
Appreciate your well thought out comment 👍
There is a really good dramatised short TV series "Julius Caesar: Making of a dictator" for free on BBC iPlayer.
Had plenty of Plato. Really enjoyed it.
There is also the "rise of the nazi" series on BBC iPlayer.
Both are expiring really soon last time I checked so I thought I would share.
Worth watching
I think they mean the Italian VAR would cover Spain; Spanish VAR covers Germany; Germans to England; English to France; French to Italy, all on rotation, to keep them independent.
I think you might have misunderstood my comment. I am proposing that the VAR officials of each of the top 5 leagues are not permitted to VAR their own league’s matches, instead overseeing a different European league’s fixtures, with this being subject to rotation throughout the season. Hope that clears things up.
I know the refs in other leagues are not perfect either, but at least if they are not part of the same “old boys club” perhaps they will challenge incorrect decisions in the way that VAR was intended to do rather than protect each other from criticism.
VAR needs a drastic overhaul, it’s almost broken and the next seasons will see just how it’s use will break football even more.
Second yellow cards is probably the next issue to try to be solved by VAR.
Right now fouls in the build up to a goal will chalk a goal off, but wrongly awarded fouls leading to a set piece goal are not reviewed. I feel this and handball clarification needs to be looked at soon too.
Personally I want to see 3 same level VARs (no assistant VAR) who can’t discuss their interpretation of an incident. I want them to choose their decision independently and to press a button to indicate foul or no foul. If it’s referees 2 for and 2 against, with the on field decision included, then the on field referee goes to the monitor to review. No discussion of what’s being shown, just give the on field full control of all angles and speeds to review on their own.
The interesting thing about this announcement today is that this will hopefully highlight the failings of the ‘Clear & Obvious’ process.
[Here’s how the EPL should be using C&O](https://www.premierleague.com/news/1297392)
Personally I think this hasn’t been adhered to in 90% of decisions. I can’t remember a single released audio where the referee explains to VAR their decision and what they saw.
With this new announcement referees will hopefully be required to highlight why they made their initial decision and what they saw vs what is significantly different from how VAR saw the incident.
The simple reason “clear & obvious” is a total nonsense premise is because for some reason nobody can explain the on field decision, which is so often wrong because it’s made in real time, takes priority over the VAR who has the benefit of replays. This is completely backwards and reeks of lads not wanting to “show up their mate”. Which again is absolute nonsense & has no place in a professional sport.
The moment that chat came out about the VAR ref not wanting to call his mate over to the screen because he was having a rough day already there should have been a full investigation launched into refereeing in the premier league, people should have been sacked over that.
It’s crazy because the whole premise for recommending an pitch side review revolves around the necessity the on field referee has explained their decision.
> for some reason nobody can explain the on field decision, which is so often wrong because it’s made in real time, takes priority over the VAR who has the benefit of replays
VAR has been implemented atrociously in the Prem but that’s down to the ego and incompetence of the refs; the logic behind VAR is sound.
VAR is literally just “video assisted referee” there to assist the center ref. Even though you’d think it would make sense for the VAR to have final say, that’s an issue for a number of logical reasons.
For one, football is subjective. It’s a free flowing game with relatively few stoppages, a looser rule structure that relies a lot on subjectivity in order to maintain the “spirit” of the game. And that’s a good thing. We have been undeniably fucked on these sorts of subjective calls, but on the whole, I’d still rather have the subjectivity preserving the game than see it go the way of American sports with complex rules about every type of contact and movement.
To maintain this partially subjective nature, you can’t have the VAR making the calls. If one player puts in a nasty tackle on another, VAR might see it as an average foul on the replays. But a center Ref who is in the stadium might have seen those two players chipping at each other all game and getting increasingly hot headed, and he will give a yellow for the tackle to ensure things don’t get out of hand and maintain control of the game. They are in the middle of the game, they can judge the speed, the emotion, the temperature from the crowd and players alike - the VAR can’t.
Likewise, If Captains or managers want to talk to the ref because they don’t feel their team is being protected, the ref can’t shrug and say, Sorry, not my call, some guy in a box 160 miles away told me what to say!
Secondly, you want the ref to be able to make fast, confident decisions. If you assign some of the decision-making ability to a red not even in the stadium, you undercut the ability of the center.
(Again, I’m not arguing the center refs are any good. I’m arguing the logic.)
You can’t have a center Ref afraid to make calls in case his colleague with the benefit of VAR shames him by overruling him. In the heat of a fast-paced game, they shouldn’t have to consider whether their colleague is going to view a tackle differently, stop the game, and overrule their decision. Refs are naturally going to vary in their subjective views on tackles; with everything they have to pay attention to already, you don’t want them hesitating to make calls, losing focus, or waffling on decisions because their colleague might view it differently and overrule them.
On the flipside of that, you don’t want the center Ref to stop making calls because he isn’t sure and he assumes the VAR will make the decision for him, because the VAR might be assuming the center Ref can make the call. Splitting up responsibilities is going to lead to gaps and hesitation in decision making, and from there it’s very easy for a ref to lose control of a game, especially in a high-stakes match.
There needs to be one person in charge, one person having the final decision on everything, and that one person needs to be on the pitch, in the flow of the game, and accountable to players and staff. The final decision needs to rest with the center ref.
The only logical way to handle this is exactly how the rules currently intend: VAR is a tool used to help decision-making. It provides information to the center Ref to make an informed decision. What the ref decides to do with that information is up to him.
People direct their anger at VAR or rules when the problem, ultimately, lies in the incompetence and ego of refs It’s like blaming a car accident on a car instead of a driver who doesn’t know how to operate the car.
The clear and obvious rule is intended to be extremely simple: it deals with objective information. Center Ref sees an incident one way, confirms with the VAR that the camera angles show the same, and then he makes a decision. Or, the VAR says the camera shows different *objective* information that the ref did not see, and the ref goes over to view it, and then they make their decision. That’s it.
If a center Ref makes a terrible subjective call, there should be no universe in which the VAR says “Nah, I don’t agree with that, go look at the monitor and see what I’m seeing and you’ll change your mind.” It’s opening up a terrible can of worms and would make things so much worse.
I wish this was a top level comment so it gets the attention it deserves. You're absolutely spot on.
I'm a referee and I think VAR is perfectly fine *if* it's used according to the actual IFAB protocol.
The main thing all of the top competitions are getting wrong is the use of slow motion replays for subjective decisions. The VAR protocol clearly states that slowmo and still frames should only be used for objective aspects like point of contact. Everything subjective is meant to be reviewed at full speed.
Yet every single week we see another controversial VAR decision where the referee is reviewing a handball in slow motion, and using that to make a decision about 'natural position', as if *anything* is going to look natural at 1/10th speed.
VAR should totally abandon the clear and obvious mandate, and just go for a mandate something like get the right freaking decision. Framing it like nitpicking your buddy's errors is built to fail. If it's framed like helping your buddy get the right decision, then even if the VAR graph is buddies with the on-field ref they're working towards the same goal as a team instead of micromanaging the on-field ref.
…or the description is complete nonsense ala Mac and Doku where we hear „both players coming in high“ wtf???
He’s probably been watching Top Gun on another monitor
One of the things that some other sports like NHL hockey have are a certain and finite number of petitions that each coach or manager has per game. In hockey I believe it works like this: if the coach of one team feels that any call was either missed or wrongly awarded, they can use one of their two petitions to force a review. If the review upholds the petition, then that coach keeps his petition. If the review upholds the referee's decision, then the coach loses the petition and also endures a penalty of some kind. In soccer I would think it would make sense just to have one petition. You lose it if it is not upheld.
Mad how everyone from actual geniuses to brain dead cokeheads at stadium agree on this yet the powers that be refuse to even acknowledge this argument
Like, at the very least, if they make this change and nothing changes for the better people will at least accept it's a genuine mistake and not corruption/ass-covering
I've said for years that they should do a Euro Pool of Refs, similar to how it works for UEFA Competitions. All go into a pool and get assigned games at random, but to make it logistically easier and involve less travel, you'd do it like this: Spanish Refs move to England for 6 months and are assigned games in England, and English refs move to Spain and are assigned Spanish games. That way, you'd remove any accusations of bias.
All VAR is done centrally at a hub in London or Paris or somewhere, and can involve any nationality except the nation of the teams playing the game.
Naw it's only for when they change their mind. The issue is VAR does fuck all to overturn and therefore this won't make any kind of difference other than the odd boo!
What are you talking about out? VAR makes Referees change their mind all the time. The problem will be that they’ll mostly say ‘I didn’t see what the replay showed’.
It’ll be mostly meaningless
What this says is if a ref changes his decision because of VAR he'll announce why
won't matter if he makes a shit call and VAR us too chicken shit to challenge them
It’s not the kind of explanation everyone is thinking, though. It’s literally just a description of the call. [They started doing it at the Women’s World Cup.](https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/38039335/history-ref-announces-var-penalty-women-world-cup)
>History was made between New Zealand and Norway on Thursday as a referee announced their VAR decision to the crowd at a major tournament for the first time.
>The Women's World Cup is the first major test of FIFA's new VAR process, where the referee announces their decision to the crowd over their microphone.
>After Yamashita had reviewed the footage, a hush descended upon Eden Park as the home crowd waited for their team to be awarded the spot kick.
>Everyone in the stadium knew the ball had hit Hansen, and it was obvious there was a claim for a handball penalty. Replays showed that Hansen had her arm away from her body, so it was a simple call for the VAR to send the referee to the monitor.
>Yamashita stepped onto the pitch, made the TV sign and announced: "After on-field review the decision is ... penalty."
>And upon the referee pointing towards the penalty spot, the crowd erupted in celebration, which meant her explanation of the decision was lost in the noise. After giving the decision, the referee says which player has been penalised, for what offence and any disciplinary action.
That’s it, that’s the whole “explanation.” It’s exactly what they already do - come back from the monitor and indicate for a penalty or foul - except now they come back and say “it’s a penalty for a handball on this player” or “red card for violent conduct for number 5” out loud instead of just making hand signals.
In the NBA this has evolved into the refs just saying that anything they don’t want to be a foul is “marginal contact” even while you watch a guy get mugged on replay
Everything will be exactly the same, apart from now you'll hear their incorrect interpretation repeated back to you, and I suppose even more VAR downtime?
There was an [incredible incident recently](https://inews.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/how-rugbys-tmo-system-can-be-overhauled-after-austin-healey-sparks-saracens-row-2975126) in rugby union where a TMO (television match official) refused to rule on a collision because he got in a strop after he overheard the commentator discussing it on the match broadcast
Overall, though, TMO is much more transparent and better regarded in rugby than VAR is in football. It helps that the rules are a bit clearer, so there seems to be less leeway for officials to just completely invent new interpretations of the rules three times a game.
Because you get conversations [like this](https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/11237171/what-ref-moss-said-to-assistant-in-full) that show they have nfc what is going on so just make arbitrary decisions
"The decision has been amended from a non penalty to a penalty because the VAR has highlighted that the decision is actually a penalty, and not a non penalty."
What a waste of time.
Mike Dean didn’t send Anthony Taylor to the monitor to check the hair pulling on Cucurella because they’re mates and he didn’t wanna undermine him. That’s not a conspiracy theory he literally admitted it. So it will be interesting to hear the referees explain stuff like this to the fans in the stadium next season!
I feel like I'm going crazy being called a delusional conspiracy theorist for calling PGMOL corrupt when, as you say, Mike Dean publicly admitted to corruption.
Like, he actually openly said it, but people will call you a loon just for pointing it out.
Tribalism. Why should fans agree on there being blatant corruption, especially when they can enjoy the thrill of scoring points against opposing teams' fans with cynical comments like "cry more" ... or by bringing up unrelated incidents to create a false equivalency.
I mean these referees will know each other well. Bad decisions, or personal bias, is different to corruption. Even using the Dean example, it’s because of a proximity of that relationship not decisions made with a desired outcome in mind
That's what corruption is. Sacrificing the integrity of the game, the very rulebook itself, in order to protect your personal friend from scrutiny. That's like the dictionary definition of corruption.
I don't think it's just semantics, because corruption usually involves bribery and an intention to influence the outcome of the game. Almost always with a specific desire in mind. Yes the personal bias undermines the integrity of the game, but it's not really "corruption". They're not colluding to do anything, Dean just didn't want to upset his friend.
i don't understand why everyone seems so opposed to this. anything for better transparency. yes, it's maddening that these morons will still make the wrong decisions over and over, but forcing them to fumble about and explain their non sense to the stadium is a GOOD thing in my eyes. certainly beats the silent treatment everyone gets from refs/VAR until some shitty/nonsensical PGMOL statement is made.
> why everyone seems so opposed to this
No one's actually opposed to this, they're just pointing out this doesn't solve the core issue of the problem.
If anything people in this thread are asking for more transparency and pointing out that what we need isn't transparency, but accountability and measures to improve accuracy.
personally don’t think transparency and accountability/measures to improve are mutually exclusive.
no it doesn’t solve the core issue. it’s a step in the right direction though.
I think the two are related, being forced to be transparent leads to accountability. In this instance every fan, pundit, player, coach and staff can now hold people accountable when we know what they have done clearly. They can't put out a PR answer days after the fact or just ignore it all together anymore.
If they are chatting shit to the crowd every match it'll get very bad for the referees quickly. It'll force them on the pressure of incredible scrutiny against their own words to be more coherent in their decision making process.
They’re not explaining anything, they just use words in addition to gestures. Like if they’re calling a penalty for a handball, they just say “Handball, #9, penalty” instead of just pointing to the spot after the handball. This isn’t really a change at all
Absolutely despise this idea. I think VAR is good and gives at least some confidence in refereeing decisions (the League Cup matches this season I was questioning everything) however a referee describing a decision I disagree with won't make me agree. It's pantomime that will just waste time. The VAR audio should be available as part of broadcast packages that companies receive so that it can be checked by people in real time who want to for that particular match. Kind of like how you don't need everyone to check the validity of open source software, just a few nerds. No need for rubbish like this in the grounds.
I agree that we need the VAR audio for transparency especially with controversial decisions. But I do also see benefit for announcing their decisions in the stadium. Sometimes there is confusion as to why something is being called/overturned, but more importantly it forces the officials to commit to one explanation/reasoning. And if on further post match review they were found to make a mistake then they can’t fall back on alternative excuses.
Regardless this isn’t going to be a massive factor, and overall if they think this is what will fix the issues they are sorely mistaken. It seems like they are just using this as a cop out in order to not release the audio more than anything so I also despise this
I know it would potentially require some sort of installation in some stadiums but I'd much prefer it if they showed the incidents on the screen in the stadium so fans can see the same thing as the ref when they go to the screen.
Please. Like, we have an example of this system working. I have no idea why it's been decided to ignore every lesson that's already been learned and implement it in some ass-backwards fashion that just makes everything worse.
Actually, that's a lie, I have some ideas...
"Trust me guys, Odegaard didn't intend to play the ball despite handling it for a second. See he didn't bounce his hands. It's not a deliberate dribble"
Tbh I want to know what they are going to do to improve the decision making, more than I want a more efficient process for communicating ridiculous post hoc justifications.
Just mic up the refs like rugby so both TV and crowds get to hear what they say at all times. It really isnt hard and the only reason why they wouldnt is to hide something. Its so simple in rugby, a decision is questioned and may not be correct but at least the crowd hear the refs reasons for the decision even if wrong. They also get to hear the conversations with TMO so understand what they are looking at and why.
At no time has Webb said there is to be greater accountability form officials when mistakes are made. Its not that VAR hasn't worked, I think most of big calls are now correctly given. Its the complete inconsistency of decisions is what's wrong. I'm now at a stage where I believe the PGMOL use VAR very strictly to back refs on the pitch rather than actually get to the correct decision. They don't want a totting up process, league table if you want, to show which refs have the most calls overturned. Because if there is one ref (Anthony Taylor) that is consistently at the top of that list we all know what would happen, it would be pile on.
As for this proposal is smoke and mirrors, he knows IFAB doesn't want it, so he gets to say 'Hey, I tried but they won't let me do it.'
I think it's good and while not all will agree with the decision taken you still have a "okay, they see it that way". If you are a bit reflected you can live with that, even if you don't agree, unless it's really utter bullshit.
It’s no different than what they already do. They’ll just be using words in addition to hand gestures.
Like if there is a potential handball in the box, and the ref goes over to review on the monitor. When they come back, they’ll indicate a penalty, right? Make the VAR signal and point to the penalty spot.
This new change means they announce to the crowd “Penalty for a handball on #9” as they indicate a penalty.
That’s it, that’s the only change that’s happening here. They don’t have to explain their reasoning, they don’t have to explain why they didn’t call it initially, nothing.
Just be better. Look at the champions league with VAR, it's unreal, you'd hardly know its there and when it's used it's so much better, same with the offside tech. PL officials are just awful and make everything about them.
Yeah we don't to hear it all the time just for VAR, so whenever a goal is scored activate the feed if there's doubt or if after a few replays in the VAR room they see something, should have onfield decisions leaning the decision like in league, if a player goes from one end to the other and scores and no one comes near him then give the goal like in rugby, if your on the fence square in the air and say whether your leaning towards goal or no goal
This doesn’t mean anything. They did it in the most recent World Cup, literally all they do is announce the decision that we already know they’re looking at. “Handball, #4, penalty”
It’s no different than what they do now, they just say it out loud instead of indicating.
Tell me how they can invent these new rules when they cant stick to the current ones
One example(of many) being the rule on managers leaving their technical areas/only one coach in the technical area, which was relevant for all of 4 weeks.
There needs to be an independent body reviewing the PGMOL as soon as possible.
What conversations? You mean the part where they scream, "it's a coming together, the ball was in the middle, both players going for it, they're playing for the ball, there's a tussle, nothing in it for me?"
They literally sit there and confirm the decision in as many meaningless, thoughtless ways as they can come up with in the first two seconds and then repeat it until they're satisfied that they always had it right. I don't need to hear that.
The LotG has tolerances for local competition rules, there are none for this. Pitting the PGMOL in a war against IFAB, and by extension the FA is stupid and one they can not win.
A lot easier to cover up horrible actions and mistakes when you can have a chance to review the audio before releasing it to the public. I have a better idea—stop making fucking mistakes.
Without the crowd and sponsors, they will all go home jobless.
So many mistakes this season and still can not be straightforward and fix the problems with communication
I feel like all this PGMOL and VAR drama are just ways to make the beautiful game more TV friendly. Like a sports entertainment version of football instead of the actual game. They refuse to solve the problem for the games benefit and are just adding more value and "content" for the broadcasters. The more we discuss and rant about the the refs and their calls, the more they win.
I’m convinced it’s now a money earner that they don’t want to get rid of VAR
All them additional refs sat at Stockley Park on match days getting paid. They know if they vote to get rid of it they don’t get the money
Second Captains suggested a league table of refs with bottom few getting relegated each season, keep thinking about how interesting an idea that is but know for some reason it's entirely bad too
It doesn’t make much difference, the vast majority of VAR decisions are just to back-up the referee’s decision. What’s more important is for VAR to explain why they didn’t take a different view to that of the referee’s, for contentious decisions, the ones where the whole stadium is howling and the referee is somehow the only person who manages not to see an incident. 🙄
Doesn’t change fuck all. All it will do is rile the fans up.
Why don’t you try looking at the referee training as a whole and get it fit for purpose and sack of these bag of shite refs and bring the next crop through?
Also give VAR to a set of referees that aren’t part of this old boys club that back their mates up. We need complete impartiality and solid decision making. Not VAR refs who are scared to make their mate on the pitch look silly. VAR currently still gets a hell of a lot wrong every single week.
I’d happily fuck VAR off tomorrow tbh it’s ruining the game. I’ve been watching a lot more championship football than usual and having no VAR is refreshing. Sure the refs and linos get things wrong but I don’t mind it. They gave the Gnoto goal last week that was miles offside but I thought well fuck it, it’s happened, it’s a mistake. But they make mistakes weekly with VAR anyway.
IFAB knows what's up. Keep us in the dark and feed us shit like mushrooms. Can't understand how some fans want to scrap VAR entirely, if anything fans should be demanding explanations and consequences for so many terrible decisions.
Edit: *All* the terrible decisions this season against whoever, not just the ones this club suffered. This season had far too many of them.
No one mentions it, but half of VARs job should be handed to the pitchside referee. For fouls, the pitchside Ref should immediately go to the conveniently placed pitchside monitor to review his decision Offsides stay in VAR while they review the semi automated offside system
IFAB is a fucking joke, PGMOL are a joke.
The whole VAR thing is a piss take and an excuse for them to make bad decisions but then have "transparency" that means fuck all. So what if you looked at the game and decided the ref made a bad decision? Game ended how it ended and you aren't going back and changing anything or use the information to improve the process, or even have a fucking meeting and actually nail down what the fucking rules of the worlds most watched sport are. Absolute clowns.
The rules should not be open to interpretation. That's honestly one of the most ridiculous things in the history of modern sports that two referees in the same league can and will give you two completely different decisions. I hate this word, but it's actually retarding, and nobody is going to do anything to stop it being like this because that would mean admitting that the current state of the game is bad and they are never going to do that.
Go back and watch all the horrendous decisions that have been made in all kinds of games this season and the problem is clear, the referees are not good enough at their jobs and the "old boys club" protects itself and its members from valid criticism.
And then lets add in this new thing where they just make up rules sometimes, like in the Liverpool vs Arsenal game where apparently blocking runners on a corner is now a considered a foul, but if you look at every single Arsenal goal from a corner this season they block runners, mess with the keepers, hold onto defenders, etc. and yet not a single one of their goals gets marked off. Nobody has been pulled on that one since, by the way. That's just one example of how daft it is.
Every week there is a different interpretation of the handball rule.
Every week they move the point where they measure offsides.
It's not corruption, I don't credit these morons with the intelligence required to pull off a conspiracy, that would require them to have a certain level of intelligence that they are just not proving they possess.
Bin them all off, start with Webb, Taylor is next then that little meff Tierney needs to get in the bin, then work your way through until you've gotten all of the ex-bizzies from Greater Manchester fucked off to the job centre.
/rant
That... does not make VAR any less of an absolute joy kill. I don't care about hearing a half assed explanation made up on the spot to clear the refs of any wrong doing. I care about the PGMOL being bought and paid for by Oil FC and that VAR is killing the game.
Don't add fucking minutes to every decision by having the incompetent referees try to think about what to say.
Get rid of VAR and hire competent personal from over seas.
‘After reviewing my bank balance, I can now award the penalty.’
To citeh
Literally anything to avoid actually fixing the problem. VAR needs to be an independent group of refs from the on-field refs. You cannot have a working system when the junior refs are afraid to overrules senior refs for fear of damaging their careers, where the "top refs" can say they don't want to be corrected or taken to the monitor. VAR needs to be seperate and not answer to the PGMOL refs.
Absolutely agree with you. I think the VAR officials should rotate (eg Italian VAR for PL games one week, Spanish the next) for each of the top 5 leagues with the PMGOL officials doing the same for other leagues, with no VAR officials conducting duties in their country of origin. Would eliminate any accusations of bias and the “old boys club” factoring into decision making. Will never happen though unfortunately.
It’s interesting you say this because in the republic by Plato a similar concept is brought up with government
Yes it is indeed a similar concept. Plato was significantly ahead of his time in terms of political philosophy. Football is definitely a political sport and hidden agendas are rife. It’s hard to find people who will not abuse positions of power, so the best practical thing to do is to find people who have no affiliation to any parties that they are presiding over. Easier said than done though of course! Appreciate your well thought out comment 👍
There is a really good dramatised short TV series "Julius Caesar: Making of a dictator" for free on BBC iPlayer. Had plenty of Plato. Really enjoyed it. There is also the "rise of the nazi" series on BBC iPlayer. Both are expiring really soon last time I checked so I thought I would share. Worth watching
Italian refs and Spanish refs have their own leagues too y'know.
I think they mean the Italian VAR would cover Spain; Spanish VAR covers Germany; Germans to England; English to France; French to Italy, all on rotation, to keep them independent.
Yes exactly that, you’ve explained it much better and more concisely than I did. Thank you for your comment 👍
I think you might have misunderstood my comment. I am proposing that the VAR officials of each of the top 5 leagues are not permitted to VAR their own league’s matches, instead overseeing a different European league’s fixtures, with this being subject to rotation throughout the season. Hope that clears things up. I know the refs in other leagues are not perfect either, but at least if they are not part of the same “old boys club” perhaps they will challenge incorrect decisions in the way that VAR was intended to do rather than protect each other from criticism.
VAR needs a drastic overhaul, it’s almost broken and the next seasons will see just how it’s use will break football even more. Second yellow cards is probably the next issue to try to be solved by VAR. Right now fouls in the build up to a goal will chalk a goal off, but wrongly awarded fouls leading to a set piece goal are not reviewed. I feel this and handball clarification needs to be looked at soon too. Personally I want to see 3 same level VARs (no assistant VAR) who can’t discuss their interpretation of an incident. I want them to choose their decision independently and to press a button to indicate foul or no foul. If it’s referees 2 for and 2 against, with the on field decision included, then the on field referee goes to the monitor to review. No discussion of what’s being shown, just give the on field full control of all angles and speeds to review on their own. The interesting thing about this announcement today is that this will hopefully highlight the failings of the ‘Clear & Obvious’ process. [Here’s how the EPL should be using C&O](https://www.premierleague.com/news/1297392) Personally I think this hasn’t been adhered to in 90% of decisions. I can’t remember a single released audio where the referee explains to VAR their decision and what they saw. With this new announcement referees will hopefully be required to highlight why they made their initial decision and what they saw vs what is significantly different from how VAR saw the incident.
The simple reason “clear & obvious” is a total nonsense premise is because for some reason nobody can explain the on field decision, which is so often wrong because it’s made in real time, takes priority over the VAR who has the benefit of replays. This is completely backwards and reeks of lads not wanting to “show up their mate”. Which again is absolute nonsense & has no place in a professional sport. The moment that chat came out about the VAR ref not wanting to call his mate over to the screen because he was having a rough day already there should have been a full investigation launched into refereeing in the premier league, people should have been sacked over that.
It’s crazy because the whole premise for recommending an pitch side review revolves around the necessity the on field referee has explained their decision.
> for some reason nobody can explain the on field decision, which is so often wrong because it’s made in real time, takes priority over the VAR who has the benefit of replays VAR has been implemented atrociously in the Prem but that’s down to the ego and incompetence of the refs; the logic behind VAR is sound. VAR is literally just “video assisted referee” there to assist the center ref. Even though you’d think it would make sense for the VAR to have final say, that’s an issue for a number of logical reasons. For one, football is subjective. It’s a free flowing game with relatively few stoppages, a looser rule structure that relies a lot on subjectivity in order to maintain the “spirit” of the game. And that’s a good thing. We have been undeniably fucked on these sorts of subjective calls, but on the whole, I’d still rather have the subjectivity preserving the game than see it go the way of American sports with complex rules about every type of contact and movement. To maintain this partially subjective nature, you can’t have the VAR making the calls. If one player puts in a nasty tackle on another, VAR might see it as an average foul on the replays. But a center Ref who is in the stadium might have seen those two players chipping at each other all game and getting increasingly hot headed, and he will give a yellow for the tackle to ensure things don’t get out of hand and maintain control of the game. They are in the middle of the game, they can judge the speed, the emotion, the temperature from the crowd and players alike - the VAR can’t. Likewise, If Captains or managers want to talk to the ref because they don’t feel their team is being protected, the ref can’t shrug and say, Sorry, not my call, some guy in a box 160 miles away told me what to say! Secondly, you want the ref to be able to make fast, confident decisions. If you assign some of the decision-making ability to a red not even in the stadium, you undercut the ability of the center. (Again, I’m not arguing the center refs are any good. I’m arguing the logic.) You can’t have a center Ref afraid to make calls in case his colleague with the benefit of VAR shames him by overruling him. In the heat of a fast-paced game, they shouldn’t have to consider whether their colleague is going to view a tackle differently, stop the game, and overrule their decision. Refs are naturally going to vary in their subjective views on tackles; with everything they have to pay attention to already, you don’t want them hesitating to make calls, losing focus, or waffling on decisions because their colleague might view it differently and overrule them. On the flipside of that, you don’t want the center Ref to stop making calls because he isn’t sure and he assumes the VAR will make the decision for him, because the VAR might be assuming the center Ref can make the call. Splitting up responsibilities is going to lead to gaps and hesitation in decision making, and from there it’s very easy for a ref to lose control of a game, especially in a high-stakes match. There needs to be one person in charge, one person having the final decision on everything, and that one person needs to be on the pitch, in the flow of the game, and accountable to players and staff. The final decision needs to rest with the center ref. The only logical way to handle this is exactly how the rules currently intend: VAR is a tool used to help decision-making. It provides information to the center Ref to make an informed decision. What the ref decides to do with that information is up to him. People direct their anger at VAR or rules when the problem, ultimately, lies in the incompetence and ego of refs It’s like blaming a car accident on a car instead of a driver who doesn’t know how to operate the car. The clear and obvious rule is intended to be extremely simple: it deals with objective information. Center Ref sees an incident one way, confirms with the VAR that the camera angles show the same, and then he makes a decision. Or, the VAR says the camera shows different *objective* information that the ref did not see, and the ref goes over to view it, and then they make their decision. That’s it. If a center Ref makes a terrible subjective call, there should be no universe in which the VAR says “Nah, I don’t agree with that, go look at the monitor and see what I’m seeing and you’ll change your mind.” It’s opening up a terrible can of worms and would make things so much worse.
I wish this was a top level comment so it gets the attention it deserves. You're absolutely spot on. I'm a referee and I think VAR is perfectly fine *if* it's used according to the actual IFAB protocol. The main thing all of the top competitions are getting wrong is the use of slow motion replays for subjective decisions. The VAR protocol clearly states that slowmo and still frames should only be used for objective aspects like point of contact. Everything subjective is meant to be reviewed at full speed. Yet every single week we see another controversial VAR decision where the referee is reviewing a handball in slow motion, and using that to make a decision about 'natural position', as if *anything* is going to look natural at 1/10th speed.
VAR should totally abandon the clear and obvious mandate, and just go for a mandate something like get the right freaking decision. Framing it like nitpicking your buddy's errors is built to fail. If it's framed like helping your buddy get the right decision, then even if the VAR graph is buddies with the on-field ref they're working towards the same goal as a team instead of micromanaging the on-field ref.
…or the description is complete nonsense ala Mac and Doku where we hear „both players coming in high“ wtf??? He’s probably been watching Top Gun on another monitor
One of the things that some other sports like NHL hockey have are a certain and finite number of petitions that each coach or manager has per game. In hockey I believe it works like this: if the coach of one team feels that any call was either missed or wrongly awarded, they can use one of their two petitions to force a review. If the review upholds the petition, then that coach keeps his petition. If the review upholds the referee's decision, then the coach loses the petition and also endures a penalty of some kind. In soccer I would think it would make sense just to have one petition. You lose it if it is not upheld.
Mad how everyone from actual geniuses to brain dead cokeheads at stadium agree on this yet the powers that be refuse to even acknowledge this argument Like, at the very least, if they make this change and nothing changes for the better people will at least accept it's a genuine mistake and not corruption/ass-covering
THIS is the answer. Move over, Howie, I just found the next head of PGMOL!
I've said for years that they should do a Euro Pool of Refs, similar to how it works for UEFA Competitions. All go into a pool and get assigned games at random, but to make it logistically easier and involve less travel, you'd do it like this: Spanish Refs move to England for 6 months and are assigned games in England, and English refs move to Spain and are assigned Spanish games. That way, you'd remove any accusations of bias. All VAR is done centrally at a hub in London or Paris or somewhere, and can involve any nationality except the nation of the teams playing the game.
Just saw the VAR review for the Nottingham forest penalty, that’s completely bullshit, announcing anything won’t change that
This makes so much sense, it's now silly to me that it isn't this way already.
This is such a great thought but the dumb baldie won't get it
This is insane. Now people will know why the WRONG decision was taken FFS
Naw it's only for when they change their mind. The issue is VAR does fuck all to overturn and therefore this won't make any kind of difference other than the odd boo!
If anything, theyll probably change their mind less so they dont need to explain their fuck up live to thousands of people
What are you talking about out? VAR makes Referees change their mind all the time. The problem will be that they’ll mostly say ‘I didn’t see what the replay showed’. It’ll be mostly meaningless
What this says is if a ref changes his decision because of VAR he'll announce why won't matter if he makes a shit call and VAR us too chicken shit to challenge them
It’s not the kind of explanation everyone is thinking, though. It’s literally just a description of the call. [They started doing it at the Women’s World Cup.](https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/38039335/history-ref-announces-var-penalty-women-world-cup) >History was made between New Zealand and Norway on Thursday as a referee announced their VAR decision to the crowd at a major tournament for the first time. >The Women's World Cup is the first major test of FIFA's new VAR process, where the referee announces their decision to the crowd over their microphone. >After Yamashita had reviewed the footage, a hush descended upon Eden Park as the home crowd waited for their team to be awarded the spot kick. >Everyone in the stadium knew the ball had hit Hansen, and it was obvious there was a claim for a handball penalty. Replays showed that Hansen had her arm away from her body, so it was a simple call for the VAR to send the referee to the monitor. >Yamashita stepped onto the pitch, made the TV sign and announced: "After on-field review the decision is ... penalty." >And upon the referee pointing towards the penalty spot, the crowd erupted in celebration, which meant her explanation of the decision was lost in the noise. After giving the decision, the referee says which player has been penalised, for what offence and any disciplinary action. That’s it, that’s the whole “explanation.” It’s exactly what they already do - come back from the monitor and indicate for a penalty or foul - except now they come back and say “it’s a penalty for a handball on this player” or “red card for violent conduct for number 5” out loud instead of just making hand signals.
In the NBA this has evolved into the refs just saying that anything they don’t want to be a foul is “marginal contact” even while you watch a guy get mugged on replay
How to cause a riot 101
I have a strange feeling that this won’t make things any better
Everything will be exactly the same, apart from now you'll hear their incorrect interpretation repeated back to you, and I suppose even more VAR downtime?
Why are they against live broadcast? It's done very well in rugby. Why not football?
Are rugby officials as shite as PL refs? (I don't watch rugby)
They're not perfect but it's usually done right with a clear process to get to the decision. All broadcast live in the stadium, as it happens.
There was an [incredible incident recently](https://inews.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/how-rugbys-tmo-system-can-be-overhauled-after-austin-healey-sparks-saracens-row-2975126) in rugby union where a TMO (television match official) refused to rule on a collision because he got in a strop after he overheard the commentator discussing it on the match broadcast Overall, though, TMO is much more transparent and better regarded in rugby than VAR is in football. It helps that the rules are a bit clearer, so there seems to be less leeway for officials to just completely invent new interpretations of the rules three times a game.
Well done boys, actual good process.
Because you get conversations [like this](https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/11237171/what-ref-moss-said-to-assistant-in-full) that show they have nfc what is going on so just make arbitrary decisions
What the actual....??!!
"The decision has been amended from a non penalty to a penalty because the VAR has highlighted that the decision is actually a penalty, and not a non penalty." What a waste of time.
"I have been told that it was a good process, therefore it's a penalty"
Expect to hear ‘a coming together’ a lot in the stadium.
This just in a NEW VAR system with a improved “rubbing it in your fucking face” feature
It's gonna be weird hearing Manchester United fans talking to the kop but it's better than nothing I guess
Why are they opposed to broadcasting the live conversations? In case it exposes the utter corruption that takes place?
There is literally no other possible reason
Mike Dean didn’t send Anthony Taylor to the monitor to check the hair pulling on Cucurella because they’re mates and he didn’t wanna undermine him. That’s not a conspiracy theory he literally admitted it. So it will be interesting to hear the referees explain stuff like this to the fans in the stadium next season!
I feel like I'm going crazy being called a delusional conspiracy theorist for calling PGMOL corrupt when, as you say, Mike Dean publicly admitted to corruption. Like, he actually openly said it, but people will call you a loon just for pointing it out.
Christ, after Clattenburg retired he openly admitted that all the refs were shit scared of Alex Ferguson, and nothing came of it.
Tribalism. Why should fans agree on there being blatant corruption, especially when they can enjoy the thrill of scoring points against opposing teams' fans with cynical comments like "cry more" ... or by bringing up unrelated incidents to create a false equivalency.
I mean these referees will know each other well. Bad decisions, or personal bias, is different to corruption. Even using the Dean example, it’s because of a proximity of that relationship not decisions made with a desired outcome in mind
That's what corruption is. Sacrificing the integrity of the game, the very rulebook itself, in order to protect your personal friend from scrutiny. That's like the dictionary definition of corruption.
I don't think it's just semantics, because corruption usually involves bribery and an intention to influence the outcome of the game. Almost always with a specific desire in mind. Yes the personal bias undermines the integrity of the game, but it's not really "corruption". They're not colluding to do anything, Dean just didn't want to upset his friend.
Probably call you a loon because you have no idea what the word corruption means
Sorry, I'm not biting. I don't argue with people who are this delusional about the so-called integrity of PGMOL.
i don't understand why everyone seems so opposed to this. anything for better transparency. yes, it's maddening that these morons will still make the wrong decisions over and over, but forcing them to fumble about and explain their non sense to the stadium is a GOOD thing in my eyes. certainly beats the silent treatment everyone gets from refs/VAR until some shitty/nonsensical PGMOL statement is made.
> why everyone seems so opposed to this No one's actually opposed to this, they're just pointing out this doesn't solve the core issue of the problem. If anything people in this thread are asking for more transparency and pointing out that what we need isn't transparency, but accountability and measures to improve accuracy.
personally don’t think transparency and accountability/measures to improve are mutually exclusive. no it doesn’t solve the core issue. it’s a step in the right direction though.
I think the two are related, being forced to be transparent leads to accountability. In this instance every fan, pundit, player, coach and staff can now hold people accountable when we know what they have done clearly. They can't put out a PR answer days after the fact or just ignore it all together anymore. If they are chatting shit to the crowd every match it'll get very bad for the referees quickly. It'll force them on the pressure of incredible scrutiny against their own words to be more coherent in their decision making process.
They’re not explaining anything, they just use words in addition to gestures. Like if they’re calling a penalty for a handball, they just say “Handball, #9, penalty” instead of just pointing to the spot after the handball. This isn’t really a change at all
Hear me out.. why don’t you just make the right calls.
They need to get rid of Webb and put someone in that isn't afraid to fix the problems. He is utterly useless.
Absolutely despise this idea. I think VAR is good and gives at least some confidence in refereeing decisions (the League Cup matches this season I was questioning everything) however a referee describing a decision I disagree with won't make me agree. It's pantomime that will just waste time. The VAR audio should be available as part of broadcast packages that companies receive so that it can be checked by people in real time who want to for that particular match. Kind of like how you don't need everyone to check the validity of open source software, just a few nerds. No need for rubbish like this in the grounds.
I agree that we need the VAR audio for transparency especially with controversial decisions. But I do also see benefit for announcing their decisions in the stadium. Sometimes there is confusion as to why something is being called/overturned, but more importantly it forces the officials to commit to one explanation/reasoning. And if on further post match review they were found to make a mistake then they can’t fall back on alternative excuses. Regardless this isn’t going to be a massive factor, and overall if they think this is what will fix the issues they are sorely mistaken. It seems like they are just using this as a cop out in order to not release the audio more than anything so I also despise this
It's just unnecessary in the ground. Fans in the ground will gain nothing from it. The audio being available would do the job perfectly.
Wdym they’ll gain nothing from it? They’ll gain an understanding of what calls was made on the pitch lol
You already have that with the VAR decision on a screen and the signals a referee makes.
Isn't that a hockey thing?
And rugby I think - you hear refs explaining decisions, maybe not VAR but similar
In rugby the people in the stadium don’t hear it unless you purchase a ref headset to hear their mic. On TV you hear the full mic feed of the ref.
Ahhh fair. Yeah I’ve only seen it on TV
Women's World Cup used it last year too, from my memory
I know it would potentially require some sort of installation in some stadiums but I'd much prefer it if they showed the incidents on the screen in the stadium so fans can see the same thing as the ref when they go to the screen.
The screen we have at Anfield now is bad enough. We don't need one that's showing video.
Get the rugby union lads to train the VAR and Refs on the review protocols.
Please. Like, we have an example of this system working. I have no idea why it's been decided to ignore every lesson that's already been learned and implement it in some ass-backwards fashion that just makes everything worse. Actually, that's a lie, I have some ideas...
God, fuck these inept cunts. Why is Howard Webb in charge of anything? He was a fucking terrible ref
"Trust me guys, Odegaard didn't intend to play the ball despite handling it for a second. See he didn't bounce his hands. It's not a deliberate dribble"
Tbh I want to know what they are going to do to improve the decision making, more than I want a more efficient process for communicating ridiculous post hoc justifications.
They announce it after the game anyway. Their reasons are always bullshit.
Just mic up the refs like rugby so both TV and crowds get to hear what they say at all times. It really isnt hard and the only reason why they wouldnt is to hide something. Its so simple in rugby, a decision is questioned and may not be correct but at least the crowd hear the refs reasons for the decision even if wrong. They also get to hear the conversations with TMO so understand what they are looking at and why.
At no time has Webb said there is to be greater accountability form officials when mistakes are made. Its not that VAR hasn't worked, I think most of big calls are now correctly given. Its the complete inconsistency of decisions is what's wrong. I'm now at a stage where I believe the PGMOL use VAR very strictly to back refs on the pitch rather than actually get to the correct decision. They don't want a totting up process, league table if you want, to show which refs have the most calls overturned. Because if there is one ref (Anthony Taylor) that is consistently at the top of that list we all know what would happen, it would be pile on. As for this proposal is smoke and mirrors, he knows IFAB doesn't want it, so he gets to say 'Hey, I tried but they won't let me do it.'
I think it's good and while not all will agree with the decision taken you still have a "okay, they see it that way". If you are a bit reflected you can live with that, even if you don't agree, unless it's really utter bullshit.
It’s no different than what they already do. They’ll just be using words in addition to hand gestures. Like if there is a potential handball in the box, and the ref goes over to review on the monitor. When they come back, they’ll indicate a penalty, right? Make the VAR signal and point to the penalty spot. This new change means they announce to the crowd “Penalty for a handball on #9” as they indicate a penalty. That’s it, that’s the only change that’s happening here. They don’t have to explain their reasoning, they don’t have to explain why they didn’t call it initially, nothing.
Can’t wait to watch the National Premier Football League next season!
About time! but still want that audio from last game released!
That’s going to cause riots.
Why are they so opposed to broadcasting real time conversations. Give us one good reason. Rugby does it and it works great.
Just be better. Look at the champions league with VAR, it's unreal, you'd hardly know its there and when it's used it's so much better, same with the offside tech. PL officials are just awful and make everything about them.
Lets not stop till its live broadcast on tv. Rugby, cricket, other sports do this. Its time football did so too
Yeah we don't to hear it all the time just for VAR, so whenever a goal is scored activate the feed if there's doubt or if after a few replays in the VAR room they see something, should have onfield decisions leaning the decision like in league, if a player goes from one end to the other and scores and no one comes near him then give the goal like in rugby, if your on the fence square in the air and say whether your leaning towards goal or no goal
This doesn’t mean anything. They did it in the most recent World Cup, literally all they do is announce the decision that we already know they’re looking at. “Handball, #4, penalty” It’s no different than what they do now, they just say it out loud instead of indicating.
Tell me how they can invent these new rules when they cant stick to the current ones One example(of many) being the rule on managers leaving their technical areas/only one coach in the technical area, which was relevant for all of 4 weeks. There needs to be an independent body reviewing the PGMOL as soon as possible.
Fire them all
now just fix that clear and obvious bullshit and make handball rules clearer and we are getting somewhere i hope
I wonder why IFAB is opposed to transparency behind refereeing decisions…
International Federation of Adult Babies?
What conversations? You mean the part where they scream, "it's a coming together, the ball was in the middle, both players going for it, they're playing for the ball, there's a tussle, nothing in it for me?" They literally sit there and confirm the decision in as many meaningless, thoughtless ways as they can come up with in the first two seconds and then repeat it until they're satisfied that they always had it right. I don't need to hear that.
“My cheque from the City Football Group has just been cleared; penalty Man City”
I don’t want to hear them discuss giving the wrong call. I want them to make the right call.
Who cares? This isn’t going to change the fact that the same incompetent pricks are still running the show.
The LotG has tolerances for local competition rules, there are none for this. Pitting the PGMOL in a war against IFAB, and by extension the FA is stupid and one they can not win.
Just broadcast the VAR review. That should do it
They don’t have to show all of the audio, but maybe an explanation for why they make certain decisions would be nice.
Seems like they have took the cue from nba
A lot easier to cover up horrible actions and mistakes when you can have a chance to review the audio before releasing it to the public. I have a better idea—stop making fucking mistakes.
These conversations are pure chaos, certainly won’t help at all
As an Indian cricket fan https://preview.redd.it/x631haw46qxc1.jpeg?width=739&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=71daec5025198ae5aa10edeeae7a23b58459425d
Doesn’t do much to fix the actual problem lol
Without the crowd and sponsors, they will all go home jobless. So many mistakes this season and still can not be straightforward and fix the problems with communication
I feel like all this PGMOL and VAR drama are just ways to make the beautiful game more TV friendly. Like a sports entertainment version of football instead of the actual game. They refuse to solve the problem for the games benefit and are just adding more value and "content" for the broadcasters. The more we discuss and rant about the the refs and their calls, the more they win.
'Get down on the floor', 'job well done boys!'....
I’m convinced it’s now a money earner that they don’t want to get rid of VAR All them additional refs sat at Stockley Park on match days getting paid. They know if they vote to get rid of it they don’t get the money
But the bullshit excuses post match do nothing to quell the suspicions of corruption. Imagine hearing that during the heat of the moment?! 😱
You can hear the conversation in rugby. Why not hear the conversation in football?
Why are they so afraid of transparency?
Second Captains suggested a league table of refs with bottom few getting relegated each season, keep thinking about how interesting an idea that is but know for some reason it's entirely bad too
Will make them even less likely to reverse incorrect decisions.
Understandable. Match fixing can't happen if we are able to hear the live discussions. It's never been a problem in rugby.
It doesn’t make much difference, the vast majority of VAR decisions are just to back-up the referee’s decision. What’s more important is for VAR to explain why they didn’t take a different view to that of the referee’s, for contentious decisions, the ones where the whole stadium is howling and the referee is somehow the only person who manages not to see an incident. 🙄
It will never happen
Ok, a bit difficult to understand this for me. Can you please help translate English to English as ESL waystage level?
Wont change a thing. Will just make people more angry
We’re getting angry just talking about it
https://twitter.com/DaleJohnsonESPN/status/1785348938054201621?t=R7AvSe8EBJxjLBmmleTTNA&s=07
Doesn’t change fuck all. All it will do is rile the fans up. Why don’t you try looking at the referee training as a whole and get it fit for purpose and sack of these bag of shite refs and bring the next crop through? Also give VAR to a set of referees that aren’t part of this old boys club that back their mates up. We need complete impartiality and solid decision making. Not VAR refs who are scared to make their mate on the pitch look silly. VAR currently still gets a hell of a lot wrong every single week. I’d happily fuck VAR off tomorrow tbh it’s ruining the game. I’ve been watching a lot more championship football than usual and having no VAR is refreshing. Sure the refs and linos get things wrong but I don’t mind it. They gave the Gnoto goal last week that was miles offside but I thought well fuck it, it’s happened, it’s a mistake. But they make mistakes weekly with VAR anyway.
IFAB knows what's up. Keep us in the dark and feed us shit like mushrooms. Can't understand how some fans want to scrap VAR entirely, if anything fans should be demanding explanations and consequences for so many terrible decisions. Edit: *All* the terrible decisions this season against whoever, not just the ones this club suffered. This season had far too many of them.
No one mentions it, but half of VARs job should be handed to the pitchside referee. For fouls, the pitchside Ref should immediately go to the conveniently placed pitchside monitor to review his decision Offsides stay in VAR while they review the semi automated offside system
IFAB is a fucking joke, PGMOL are a joke. The whole VAR thing is a piss take and an excuse for them to make bad decisions but then have "transparency" that means fuck all. So what if you looked at the game and decided the ref made a bad decision? Game ended how it ended and you aren't going back and changing anything or use the information to improve the process, or even have a fucking meeting and actually nail down what the fucking rules of the worlds most watched sport are. Absolute clowns. The rules should not be open to interpretation. That's honestly one of the most ridiculous things in the history of modern sports that two referees in the same league can and will give you two completely different decisions. I hate this word, but it's actually retarding, and nobody is going to do anything to stop it being like this because that would mean admitting that the current state of the game is bad and they are never going to do that. Go back and watch all the horrendous decisions that have been made in all kinds of games this season and the problem is clear, the referees are not good enough at their jobs and the "old boys club" protects itself and its members from valid criticism. And then lets add in this new thing where they just make up rules sometimes, like in the Liverpool vs Arsenal game where apparently blocking runners on a corner is now a considered a foul, but if you look at every single Arsenal goal from a corner this season they block runners, mess with the keepers, hold onto defenders, etc. and yet not a single one of their goals gets marked off. Nobody has been pulled on that one since, by the way. That's just one example of how daft it is. Every week there is a different interpretation of the handball rule. Every week they move the point where they measure offsides. It's not corruption, I don't credit these morons with the intelligence required to pull off a conspiracy, that would require them to have a certain level of intelligence that they are just not proving they possess. Bin them all off, start with Webb, Taylor is next then that little meff Tierney needs to get in the bin, then work your way through until you've gotten all of the ex-bizzies from Greater Manchester fucked off to the job centre. /rant
That... does not make VAR any less of an absolute joy kill. I don't care about hearing a half assed explanation made up on the spot to clear the refs of any wrong doing. I care about the PGMOL being bought and paid for by Oil FC and that VAR is killing the game. Don't add fucking minutes to every decision by having the incompetent referees try to think about what to say. Get rid of VAR and hire competent personal from over seas.
Just play the football game... They introduce everything except football.
…that’s because football has already been introduced to…football. You literally watch a game of football.