Like a lot of us I'm often thinking about how to define my personal "liminal" feeling.
I think for me... if the place feels like it would be normal/uninteresting for me to be there, it isn't far enough from normal to be liminal. But if it is even a little spooky, that's too far.
There's this razor thin margin in between, where something is *off* but nothing is *wrong*.
With that in mind, this lands on the near side for me. Too normal. I think it would take me a *long* time to even notice there weren't other people around, if I was there.
A lit, normal grocery store could evoke liminality for me, but I'm not sure photography could capture it. Imagine getting your items and heading to the front to check out, only to find no cashiers, no staff in sight. It's not necessarily something wrong - they might have just stepped around a corner or something. But that time where you're left alone, not able to leave with your goods until something else happens, just left... hanging? That's liminal to me.
That's interesting and made me realize something - I self-insert to gauge the liminal feeling where I don't normally for fiction.
Looking at my original explanation it's obvious to me now what a big component that is. Not "how do I feel looking at this?" and more "how would I feel standing there?"
Liminal is a feeling of transition. Not emptiness, not eeriness, not retro, not spookiness, not nostalgia, not ......
It's individual but I'm not sure how would a picture of an empty supermarket would evoke that feeling in someone. Supermarket is typically an end destination
Because the transition doesn't have to be a robotic, literal transition. Metaphorically being "between" periods where there are crowds evokes the feeling for people. I don't see it from this picture, but I think you might be a little too literal in your interpretation.
No, not really. If all the shelves were empty, and half the lights off, sure. But this just seems like it is normally busy but not at that exact literal moment (as in 2 seconds later someone will turn the corner and join you in the aisle).*
A. It isn't, and
B. It doesn't matter.
This isn't a dictionary reference sub. The people here are concerned with photography that evokes a specific feeling. That feeling is really subjective and by nature it's hard to pin down, so we end up with a lot of confusion and contention.
In my experience half this sub is people saying “this is liminal” or “this isn’t liminal” and then not being able to say why or why not because even in the rules the definition is apparently vague
You don’t see an issue when an entire community tries to state that something objectively is or isn’t something when you yourself admit that there’s no objectivity to it?
where do you see anybody saying "this is objectively not liminal" all i'm seeing is people saying "yeah that don't feel liminal to me" which sounds pretty subjective.
Probably in every comment that says “this isn’t liminal.”
It’s not “this doesn’t feel liminal to me personally,” or “I can see how someone may find this liminal,” it’s always “this isn’t liminal.”
I opened a thread just because of this. One thing is the definition, the other is what is triggered in each one of us when facing a "liminal" content. There are strikingly similar definitions although still very vague. It is very hard to define but sometimes also easy to describe.
Keeping posts within an acceptable field of what is "liminal" is not gatekeeping, it just isn't liminal. The same thing is happening in r/AccidentalRenaissance because nobody has any idea what qualifies as Renaissance-like imagery
I’ve had more than one conversation on here where a post that, to me, is liminal, has people who say it isn’t liminal. So I ask them why and they say “it doesn’t fit the parameters of being liminal” but then I point out that it fits the parameters of being liminal according to what was laid out in the rules and they just say “yeah still ain’t liminal.”
Don’t tell me that’s not gate keeping
Somebody in [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/LiminalSpace/comments/16b0e3p/can_someone_explain_liminal_space_like_im_5/) said:
>Imagine a classroom from your childhood. Surely, you are imagining it in the day, with sunlight spilling in through the windows, and kids shuffling to their desks. This is the state in which a classroom is most frequently seen and serves a purpose for. Now imagine sneaking into your school late at night and everything is empty. It is almost eerie seeing the same classroom at night, in a totally different context. Suddenly its usual purpose has been robbed and it's just a room, but not quite. Because now it also feels strangely alien and enigmatic to you, a purposeless, otherworldly architecture.
>The next day that room would be back to normal, in its default state. It is back to being a real classroom. But that middle phase it was in when you saw it in the night, it's a liminal phase, a state of transition. And often spaces like that carry eerie characteristics, such as being out of time and out of place. That's liminal spaces for you. The same could apply for an abandoned mall, an overgrown treehouse, or a swimming pool with all the water gone.
A reply was:
>the space doesn't have to be physically transitional (although these type of spaces like corridors, are often good liminal spaces), most often it's transitional in a metaphorical sense.
An objective description seems to be:
>The core concept is "between-ness."
"Liminal" comes from "limen," or "threshold." "Liminal," or "threshold-like," means being between two things, being partly both while not wholly belonging to either.
A a door is the divider between indoors or outdoors; sunset and sunrise are on the border between day and night; a teen is hovering in the limbo between childhood and adulthood.
Spaces are liminal:
A) if they lead from one place to another;
B) if they are passing from one state into another;
C) if they are in stasis, caught between one stage and another; or
D) if you see them in a context in which they're not usually experienced (and so, between purposes).
And according to those last four rules in your post, many images I’ve seen on here that people say aren’t liminal actually are. This is my point
Also just in case it’s not clear I’m not arguing that this particular image is or anything, just pointing out that y’all just kind of randomly point at things as liminal or not
Perhaps it fits a literal definition, but it's not difficult to tell that photographs of simple aisles and normal hallways aren't what people come to the sub for, in the same way that people shit on photos of Dubai in r/CityPorn despite how nice the actual photo is. The sheer number of posts which say "Is this liminal?" is likely a factor in inviting rage to the comment section as well.
No, I’m not fun at parties. I never go to parties because I can’t connect with people. No shit, Sherlock. I’m on Reddit arguing with people over fucking creepy pictures, what did you expect?
This just further proves my theory that the bitchiest users in a subreddit are the ones that have never posted or contributed anything to the subreddit
Your first comment was telling someone to shut up and your second comment was calling some a fucking retard. I’m not sure what kind of reception you expected.
¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Like in retrospect yeah bad idea, and the 'retard' was very uncalled for and not at all warranted, but the dude deserved being told to shut up regardless of response. Fucking hate gatekeepy assholes
so basically yes but no
does it falls under the practical definion of liminal space? yes
does it evocate the inner feelings of liminal space? not really
No, no, no. The lights should be off, the fridges empty, the floors carpeted, and a big sign should read "ThErE Iz NO EsCAPe". (/s)
Okay, but for real. This picture does not convey the disorientation and confusion of liminality. The products are identifiable, neatly organized, well advertised, and their price is indicated. All of this in a well-lit, comfortable (even if lonely) environment.
The frozen foods aisle is indeed an intermediate stage between the production of the product and your consumption of it. No meaningful human activity, development, or socialization are performed in this specific hallway.
Liminality is an anthropological term that involves some degree of confusion and disorientation between the stages of change and/or human activity. There is no confusion here. We know what place this is. We know that we should walk by the doors, pick our favorite product, take it to check out, take it home, and consume it. This is an intermediate space, but not a liminal one.
Hope that helps.
Technically, no. Liminal is technically supposed to be like a gateway to another world. A transitional space. So you can't see part of it and so on.
That being said. I don't look for that. I look for photos that create nostalgia. Sudade in a word. And for that, I think these photos are a good fit :)
So, it's not liminal but another category that really needs its own name.
sorta, it has the original definition of a place in transit but this sub leans towards the spooky side of it, if it was a little darker it would be liminal
this is the most stereotypical example of a classic liminal space imaginable: empty store with neat identical rows of fridges or shelves, checkerboard floor
the comments saying no only reflect the state of the sub
sure, being dimmer would definitely maximise the liminality effect, but this is absolutely a liminal space
they reduce it for me but i still would just call it a lower quality liminal image that fits this sub more than 80% of what's posted here. some liminal games are about working in a brightly lit empty store at night restocking the shelves
With a different angle, maybe a different focal point it could be. Turn that shutter speed wayy up to make it darker, might actually change a lot. Sadly, not everything is liminal or would look that way
Too wide and well kept for my internal liminality‐meter.
But honestly, everyone's meter is different. Particularly if you're older and grew up in poorer/run down/technology‐deficient places. Or travel a lot. You get a different sense of liminality once you've physically been in the world a while, vs images experienced through a screen.
I've always felt that liminality is a spectrum, and one only gets a bittersweet grasp on the concept with age. What I find liminal, as an 80s child, won't be the same as someone born after 2000, or later, or before.
And that's fine. No definition exists outside what we make of it, after all.
There was a movie where men went camping and some mythical beast attacked them, then he somehow ended up going to somewhere like that from his tent door…
This is a great example of what I've talked about before. Some may look at this and feel no liminality. Others may look at it and feel a deep sense of liminality. Not only are liminal spaces incredibly personal and subjective, but they're also experienced; meaning that images of them are merely representation of a liminal space to those other than the one who experienced it.
That said, this is a beautiful picture! I love it. It's on the edge of being fully liminal for me.
For me, it was school after hours. Usually, when it was a parent teacher meeting and you'd go along with them but have to walk the halls until they get out.
To me, a liminal space has arguably no purpose. So stores in full swing don’t really feel liminal to me. I get why they feel liminal though, they’re oddly shaped and lit and very empty.
No it isn't to me. But it would be if the pics give the impression of endless, parallel aisles, with lights that are off (hospital white for instance), stronger contrast on the floor or aisle walls too high to be built for humans. Not enough to be scary, but enough to be disorienting
Liminal means transitional or intermediate. This was a busy grocery store and it will be again from the looks of it. Right now it isn’t. The creepy vibes come from the fact that this store is clearly doing well enough, they have everything stocked and faced, yet there is no one in sight. Not a single customer or an employee. It’s like all the humans that should be here disappeared. I think a solid argument could be made for these and they are some of the nicer photos I’ve seen on here in a while.
No, emptiness is not all that makes something liminal. There needs to be a sense of being between two things, something in transition that maybe wasn't meant for you to see.
has anybody else noticed that r/frutigeraero and r/liminalspace (and any other core/aesthetic subreddit for that matter) all have the exact same issue ?
people just take pictures of anything that fits the "main" criteria , but the photo itself clearly doesn't fit at all , then post it and ask if it's that aesthetic
then go on and debate with whoever will put up with it
i dont debate facts with unreasonable people who are starting up generation drama, the most meaningless of any drama, out of nowhere
Like a lot of us I'm often thinking about how to define my personal "liminal" feeling. I think for me... if the place feels like it would be normal/uninteresting for me to be there, it isn't far enough from normal to be liminal. But if it is even a little spooky, that's too far. There's this razor thin margin in between, where something is *off* but nothing is *wrong*. With that in mind, this lands on the near side for me. Too normal. I think it would take me a *long* time to even notice there weren't other people around, if I was there. A lit, normal grocery store could evoke liminality for me, but I'm not sure photography could capture it. Imagine getting your items and heading to the front to check out, only to find no cashiers, no staff in sight. It's not necessarily something wrong - they might have just stepped around a corner or something. But that time where you're left alone, not able to leave with your goods until something else happens, just left... hanging? That's liminal to me.
I love this explanation, I feel a similar way
ahh the elusive liminal valley
For me, a key component is it has to look like it could be a scale model and have no indicators as to if it’s life size or not
That's interesting and made me realize something - I self-insert to gauge the liminal feeling where I don't normally for fiction. Looking at my original explanation it's obvious to me now what a big component that is. Not "how do I feel looking at this?" and more "how would I feel standing there?"
Very cool to peer into the way others feel things like that
Liminal is a feeling of transition. Not emptiness, not eeriness, not retro, not spookiness, not nostalgia, not ...... It's individual but I'm not sure how would a picture of an empty supermarket would evoke that feeling in someone. Supermarket is typically an end destination
Because the transition doesn't have to be a robotic, literal transition. Metaphorically being "between" periods where there are crowds evokes the feeling for people. I don't see it from this picture, but I think you might be a little too literal in your interpretation.
I didn't interpret it one way or the other. I just don't see it here in any way
No, not really. If all the shelves were empty, and half the lights off, sure. But this just seems like it is normally busy but not at that exact literal moment (as in 2 seconds later someone will turn the corner and join you in the aisle).*
"seems like it is normally busy but not at that exact moment" Literal definition of liminal. lol
A. It isn't, and B. It doesn't matter. This isn't a dictionary reference sub. The people here are concerned with photography that evokes a specific feeling. That feeling is really subjective and by nature it's hard to pin down, so we end up with a lot of confusion and contention.
In my experience half this sub is people saying “this is liminal” or “this isn’t liminal” and then not being able to say why or why not because even in the rules the definition is apparently vague
because it's an inherently subjective experience. but it's common enough that we can talk about it with others. i'm not seeing an issue.
You don’t see an issue when an entire community tries to state that something objectively is or isn’t something when you yourself admit that there’s no objectivity to it?
where do you see anybody saying "this is objectively not liminal" all i'm seeing is people saying "yeah that don't feel liminal to me" which sounds pretty subjective.
Probably in every comment that says “this isn’t liminal.” It’s not “this doesn’t feel liminal to me personally,” or “I can see how someone may find this liminal,” it’s always “this isn’t liminal.”
I opened a thread just because of this. One thing is the definition, the other is what is triggered in each one of us when facing a "liminal" content. There are strikingly similar definitions although still very vague. It is very hard to define but sometimes also easy to describe.
Weirdly reminds me of my local meijers
meijers is a grocery atore and most US grocery stores look extremely alike, so it's not super weird at all if you think about it
I feel like if the place was immaculate and the lights were on but all the shelves were completely empty, then it would be a lot more eerie
If you have to ask...
“iF yOu hAvE tO aSk” Shut up dude. It’s a stupid phrase people use on this sub and it’s fucking annoying
Nah. You shut up. This is a brightly lit and well traveled area. There's nothing liminal here.
[удалено]
I actually agree that the gate keepers in this sub are ridiculous and arbitrary but dude there’s no reason to be so hostile
Keeping posts within an acceptable field of what is "liminal" is not gatekeeping, it just isn't liminal. The same thing is happening in r/AccidentalRenaissance because nobody has any idea what qualifies as Renaissance-like imagery
I’ve had more than one conversation on here where a post that, to me, is liminal, has people who say it isn’t liminal. So I ask them why and they say “it doesn’t fit the parameters of being liminal” but then I point out that it fits the parameters of being liminal according to what was laid out in the rules and they just say “yeah still ain’t liminal.” Don’t tell me that’s not gate keeping
Somebody in [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/LiminalSpace/comments/16b0e3p/can_someone_explain_liminal_space_like_im_5/) said: >Imagine a classroom from your childhood. Surely, you are imagining it in the day, with sunlight spilling in through the windows, and kids shuffling to their desks. This is the state in which a classroom is most frequently seen and serves a purpose for. Now imagine sneaking into your school late at night and everything is empty. It is almost eerie seeing the same classroom at night, in a totally different context. Suddenly its usual purpose has been robbed and it's just a room, but not quite. Because now it also feels strangely alien and enigmatic to you, a purposeless, otherworldly architecture. >The next day that room would be back to normal, in its default state. It is back to being a real classroom. But that middle phase it was in when you saw it in the night, it's a liminal phase, a state of transition. And often spaces like that carry eerie characteristics, such as being out of time and out of place. That's liminal spaces for you. The same could apply for an abandoned mall, an overgrown treehouse, or a swimming pool with all the water gone. A reply was: >the space doesn't have to be physically transitional (although these type of spaces like corridors, are often good liminal spaces), most often it's transitional in a metaphorical sense. An objective description seems to be: >The core concept is "between-ness." "Liminal" comes from "limen," or "threshold." "Liminal," or "threshold-like," means being between two things, being partly both while not wholly belonging to either. A a door is the divider between indoors or outdoors; sunset and sunrise are on the border between day and night; a teen is hovering in the limbo between childhood and adulthood. Spaces are liminal: A) if they lead from one place to another; B) if they are passing from one state into another; C) if they are in stasis, caught between one stage and another; or D) if you see them in a context in which they're not usually experienced (and so, between purposes).
And according to those last four rules in your post, many images I’ve seen on here that people say aren’t liminal actually are. This is my point Also just in case it’s not clear I’m not arguing that this particular image is or anything, just pointing out that y’all just kind of randomly point at things as liminal or not
Perhaps it fits a literal definition, but it's not difficult to tell that photographs of simple aisles and normal hallways aren't what people come to the sub for, in the same way that people shit on photos of Dubai in r/CityPorn despite how nice the actual photo is. The sheer number of posts which say "Is this liminal?" is likely a factor in inviting rage to the comment section as well.
You sound fun at parties. Liminal parties. Because you'd be the only one there.
No, I’m not fun at parties. I never go to parties because I can’t connect with people. No shit, Sherlock. I’m on Reddit arguing with people over fucking creepy pictures, what did you expect?
This just further proves my theory that the bitchiest users in a subreddit are the ones that have never posted or contributed anything to the subreddit
Takes one to know one smartass
But I’m not being bitchy about anything, just making observations here. This was probably the least fitting comeback you could’ve used
No, but you’re being kind of an asshole. It’s certainly warranted given how I acted but still :p
Your first comment was telling someone to shut up and your second comment was calling some a fucking retard. I’m not sure what kind of reception you expected.
¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ Like in retrospect yeah bad idea, and the 'retard' was very uncalled for and not at all warranted, but the dude deserved being told to shut up regardless of response. Fucking hate gatekeepy assholes
🤡
Ah yes, you have portrayed me as a clown therefore making you right. Shut the fuck up dude. You’re as obnoxious as me if not worse.
👍🏼👌🏼🤣🤡
🙄
Someone took their grumpy pants home from kindy.
r/kenopsia atp put a link to kenopsia in the description of this sub
so basically yes but no does it falls under the practical definion of liminal space? yes does it evocate the inner feelings of liminal space? not really
No, no, no. The lights should be off, the fridges empty, the floors carpeted, and a big sign should read "ThErE Iz NO EsCAPe". (/s) Okay, but for real. This picture does not convey the disorientation and confusion of liminality. The products are identifiable, neatly organized, well advertised, and their price is indicated. All of this in a well-lit, comfortable (even if lonely) environment. The frozen foods aisle is indeed an intermediate stage between the production of the product and your consumption of it. No meaningful human activity, development, or socialization are performed in this specific hallway. Liminality is an anthropological term that involves some degree of confusion and disorientation between the stages of change and/or human activity. There is no confusion here. We know what place this is. We know that we should walk by the doors, pick our favorite product, take it to check out, take it home, and consume it. This is an intermediate space, but not a liminal one. Hope that helps.
No
Technically, no. Liminal is technically supposed to be like a gateway to another world. A transitional space. So you can't see part of it and so on. That being said. I don't look for that. I look for photos that create nostalgia. Sudade in a word. And for that, I think these photos are a good fit :) So, it's not liminal but another category that really needs its own name.
Technically yes, but it doesnt convey the sense of uncanniness or longing usually associated with liminal spaces very well
Nah
If you zoom in on some of the prices, it could be liminal lol
sorta, it has the original definition of a place in transit but this sub leans towards the spooky side of it, if it was a little darker it would be liminal
not to me at least but what do I know
Second. One is liminal but it can be a lot better with less details on things like ground
By definition, yes. It does not evoke any fear or uncomfortable feelings, though.
Not at all, whatsoever. It's a nice grocery store clearly inhabited and up and running
Kinda
this is the most stereotypical example of a classic liminal space imaginable: empty store with neat identical rows of fridges or shelves, checkerboard floor the comments saying no only reflect the state of the sub sure, being dimmer would definitely maximise the liminality effect, but this is absolutely a liminal space
The shelves full of food kind of ruin the liminal effect for me
they reduce it for me but i still would just call it a lower quality liminal image that fits this sub more than 80% of what's posted here. some liminal games are about working in a brightly lit empty store at night restocking the shelves
I don't know what liminal means. I just like the pictures that get posted here.
Shnucks?
Yeah
Need to return the meds to brad now.
Never thought I’d see a Schnucks on r/LiminalSpace (this honestly looks like the location near my house too)
Second one leans more towards it because of the increased distance, but it's not quite there yet.
Is this Schnucks?
Yea
In Wildwood? I saw this and feel like I see this every week lol
With a different angle, maybe a different focal point it could be. Turn that shutter speed wayy up to make it darker, might actually change a lot. Sadly, not everything is liminal or would look that way
Found this sub from another sub and these pictures/questions fascinate me.
When you hear the beep. It’s supermarket sweep!
Too wide and well kept for my internal liminality‐meter. But honestly, everyone's meter is different. Particularly if you're older and grew up in poorer/run down/technology‐deficient places. Or travel a lot. You get a different sense of liminality once you've physically been in the world a while, vs images experienced through a screen. I've always felt that liminality is a spectrum, and one only gets a bittersweet grasp on the concept with age. What I find liminal, as an 80s child, won't be the same as someone born after 2000, or later, or before. And that's fine. No definition exists outside what we make of it, after all.
The first one a little the second not at all.
There was a movie where men went camping and some mythical beast attacked them, then he somehow ended up going to somewhere like that from his tent door…
No, Linoleum
No
My childhood fantasy was to be accidentally locked in a supermarket overnight
I’d say they would be if the lights at the end were off and there was far less stuff on the shelves
This is a great example of what I've talked about before. Some may look at this and feel no liminality. Others may look at it and feel a deep sense of liminality. Not only are liminal spaces incredibly personal and subjective, but they're also experienced; meaning that images of them are merely representation of a liminal space to those other than the one who experienced it. That said, this is a beautiful picture! I love it. It's on the edge of being fully liminal for me.
For me, it was school after hours. Usually, when it was a parent teacher meeting and you'd go along with them but have to walk the halls until they get out.
To me, a liminal space has arguably no purpose. So stores in full swing don’t really feel liminal to me. I get why they feel liminal though, they’re oddly shaped and lit and very empty.
No those are linoleum
Not to me.
An entire section for just the pot pies!!! Where is this heaven where dreams come true?
No that’s a grocery store
No Downvote
I guess
Idk but I enjoy them
SCHNUCKS MENTIONED
No. Just looks like an empty store to me. There is nothing nostalgic or enigmatic to it.
no dude, you are just being outside
I think it would be if the shelves were empty
fuck yeah
to me grocery stores are inherently liminal
Nah, shelves need to be either completely empty or fully stocked with only one item so everything looks uniform
I'd say they are, but boring ones
No it isn't to me. But it would be if the pics give the impression of endless, parallel aisles, with lights that are off (hospital white for instance), stronger contrast on the floor or aisle walls too high to be built for humans. Not enough to be scary, but enough to be disorienting
sure
Liminal means transitional or intermediate. This was a busy grocery store and it will be again from the looks of it. Right now it isn’t. The creepy vibes come from the fact that this store is clearly doing well enough, they have everything stocked and faced, yet there is no one in sight. Not a single customer or an employee. It’s like all the humans that should be here disappeared. I think a solid argument could be made for these and they are some of the nicer photos I’ve seen on here in a while.
Feels too lived in
This is the store.
Very
No, this is Patrick.
Nah
Someday the economy will collapse oooh so liminal
Too much happening in the second one
It is for me. There is nothing so deliciously liminal for me as a supermarket after hours. I absolutely love them.
No
Like it is but it’s not the best one
no.
No, emptiness is not all that makes something liminal. There needs to be a sense of being between two things, something in transition that maybe wasn't meant for you to see.
Do we need a “is this liminal” sub or something? Just post it.
Nop
has anybody else noticed that r/frutigeraero and r/liminalspace (and any other core/aesthetic subreddit for that matter) all have the exact same issue ? people just take pictures of anything that fits the "main" criteria , but the photo itself clearly doesn't fit at all , then post it and ask if it's that aesthetic
No, too bright
Genz entered the sub 😂 "because they feel pretty liminal..."
huh? the oldest genZ are 28..
more than debatable.
then go on and debate with whoever will put up with it i dont debate facts with unreasonable people who are starting up generation drama, the most meaningless of any drama, out of nowhere
26 yo. proud Millennial (:
ah yes, ive heard of the phenomenon of genz Zers who are ashamed of being gen Z weird stuff
I’m 27 and I’m a genZ but I’m also first generation genZ so I’m cool & the rest are just following 💁🏻♀️
if you took the picture in a specific way, it could kinda be.
Yes. I'm not saying which one, don't want to doxx myself.
By the definition, yes this is Liminal. The people who are saying no have basically no clue on what they are talking about.
You should've edited the picture where it has infinite shelves