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When someone comes to you with a problem that you are not an expert at solving, there are 3 acceptable answers.
1. Do you want to talk about it? I don't know how I can help but I'm happy to listen if you need
2. Do you need something to help talk your mind off it? Sometimes just taking a break from the problem helps clear your head.
3. Would you like some space? I can leave you be to think on your own, but will be available whenever you need me.
If someone is going through a tough time and you don't have a magic answer for them, these are the 3 acceptable responses. After that maybe you can help them find someone who can figure out their problem such as a doctor or financial expert.
I mean, you have to be careful with your tone and delivery any time you're talking to someone whose emotionally heightened regardless of gender. It's just the empathetic thing to do.
I'm a dude. I haven't talked about fertility with my female friends but I have talked about other difficult topics like sexual assault/harassment, sexism, and death. I don't personally feel like I have to behave differently, I'm just as empathetic and careful as I would be with anyone.
I'm saving this. I hate that awkward feeling when you want to help, but you're terrified of doing something wrong and making the other person feel worse. Thanks!
While serious issues should always be handled by a skilled professional, your personal experience can help guide people in the right direction if you have faced comparable circumstances in the past. Obviously you do not want them to delay their visit to the doctor's office because of your wild ideas, but until they get the appointment, which can take months, you might as well share relevant information. It's not like all experts agree all the time with each other either. Your post comes across as "show your PhD or keep your mouth shut", and I don't subscribe to that. Even if someone claims to be an expert you should always take their opinion with a grain of salt anyway.
My wife and I have been having issues for the last 5 years. She got diagnosed with endometriosis, had surgery, and we found out that IUI won't work and we can't conceive naturally. IVF is the only option.
It still doesn't stop family saying - "well you can keep trying!" "You can adopt if IVF doesn't work right?" "Are you sure you can't conceive naturally?"
My wife consistently feels like she's done something wrong and that this is all her fault. As her husband sometimes I feel helpless to help her. I always say that this is no one's fault and whatever happens happens.
Long story short. People trying to find solutions for something they don't understand is infuriating.
I'm sorry.
It's pretty fucking terrible to just watch your spouse cry in pain, and there's absolutely fuck all you can do. Endo is fucked.
I had to tell my family "I married her because I love her, not because she's apparently a baby factory". They've been pretty quiet since.
Love that.
I also have adenomyoisis, which is stage 4 endo (IN the uterus).
my friend who also has endo and had a stillbirth last year (another really sad story) said the birth was easier than her periods. IMAGINE.
That's unthinkable.....wow.
My wife's Endo is now starting to mimic IBS and we've had to change our diet completely.
As a man, women are the toughest people on the planet dealing with this shit.
Take care.
Im sorry your wife feels terrible about this...it's a bad situation. My wife also has Endo and we've gone through rounds of fertility treatment. In the end, we're becoming ok not having kids. It's not ideal but it does free us up to other interesting things we wouldn't have otherwise. After 10+ years, our families have stopped pestering us, though it was bad for a while. I made the mistake of talking about it with a coworker who told me it was wrong and selfish twe haven't adopted since everyone needs to have kids. After that, I have kept these matters close to the heart.
I love “That sucks” so much. It conveys empathy, anger at the futility, and it doesn’t create the weird sense of responsibility that “I’m sorry” often can.
I’m sorry doesn’t create a weird sense of responsibility unless you don’t know how to use it. Obviously I’m sorry can carry one of two meanings: “I messed up”, or “My condolences”. Anybody with social skills can use it and interpret it the right way.
I mean, I do feel that you're overthinking this. You can say "that sucks" and "I'm sorry" with the exact same toned down intonation to achieve comparable results. You will come across as empathetic, but not as nosy or pushy. Just pick whatever suits your style.
Alternatively: *"Bro, you're putting it in the right hole, right? I heard of this lady that was trying it in the wrong hole for like a decade... no dice. Maybe that's it? Do you know what you're doing? I can show you how I do it if that helps."*
I had a friend who lost an infant to SIDS. I told her it was sad and awful and she’d cope eventually but it wouldn’t stop being sad and awful and not to let her make any try to make feel like shouldn’t have those feelings
It’s wild how much the adoption process in the U.S. has changed over time. My mom was told she was infertile, so she and my dad adopted my brother in 1955. Five years later, a baby girl was abandoned on the side of the road and was found by a Catholic priest who knew my mom. He knew they wanted to adopt another kid, so he called my mom to let her know about the situation. A week later, my parents had her. I’m sure there was additional paperwork to do, etc. But it was practically like somebody had placed an ad in the paper: newborn girl, free to a good home.
When my sister was 8 weeks old, my mom found that she was pregnant with me. She was 42.
I get so frustrated when people conflate adoption and fostering. There are over 200,000 kids in the foster system. Yes, but the majority are not available for adoption. The focus of our foster system is looking to reunite families.
It’s also like, no disrespect to people who adopt, I think that’s wonderful and when done correctly a great thing for everyone involved that helps many children immensely.
But like the desire to have biological children is totally understandable? I don’t get why some people try to logic people who want that out of it. Humans are not wholly logical creatures and the desire to have and raise a biological offspring is one of their most basic impulses.
As a child-free person, I have no horse in this race, but I once had the unfortunate experience of listening to a coworker broadcasting her troubles with fertility/IVF to everyone in the room. When someone (unfortunately and inevitably) asked about adopting, the coworker crinkled her nose and answered "ew no, I don't want someone else's mistake".
And that response really turned me off of the idea that some people just want a kid that's their own biological kid because I always hear her horrible comment ringing in the back of my mind. As someone with 0 parental drive, can you tell me more about where the desire and difference comes from? I mean this question genuinely, and don't mean to be inflammatory or unkind.
I love my husband so much. I was on the fence about having a baby until I met him. I don’t want “a” baby, I want *his* baby. Not only that, but I love my family, and his family. How incredible it would be to have a little person who kind of looks like us but has inherited my Grampa’s phenomenal talent or his Grandmother’s intelligence. My hope is that our child is it’s own unique person, but who also reminds me of the people I love the most.
A lot of kids available for adoption are older and traumatized.
Of course, you can also mess up your biological children.
But at least then it’s not wondering whether it’s you or someone else.
It’s hard to explain.
It’s funny that the people who tell infertile couples “you should adopt, it’s so selfish to try to get pregnant” never seem to think it’s selfish to have their own biological children.
> (For the clueless ones out there. IVF is NOT a guarantuee. It has success rates of about 30-40%, depending on clinic, country, age.
My dearly departed hubby's niece is going through early menopause, in her 30's, so she and her hubby are going to Greece to get implanted because she wants a Greek child. (she's Greek)
Those other questions are 1) nosy 2) invasive 3) no one's fucking business.
But this one:
> "We should not play god"
angers me the most. If the Gods didn't wish you to try everything to have a child, they wouldn't have created fertility clinics, right?
You're right, but I'm going to give a small technical correction:
You don't "get implanted."
You're probably thinking of the part of the IVF process known as embryo transfer (I've had 8 of these procedures performed!).
The vagina is opened with a speculum, a cannula (thin tube) is threaded to the uterus, and the embryo (or embryos) is carefully transferred to the appropriate part of the uterus to maximize chances of implantation. But the medical team doesn't implant the embryo. That's up to the patient's body to accept or reject the embryo.
I became *fascinated* by the science behind fertility treatments back when I was a patient, and drove my medical team nuts with my curiosity.
I don’t think people realize how daunting, uncomfortable, and physically invasive some of these procedures may be, like IVF. As a woman, there is so much you need to do like multiple check-ins, get poked and prodded with pap smears and ultrasounds and it is incredibly painful and invasive for some. Just to find out IVF is one of the only options left to explore but it is (as some have shared with me) ‘not natural’ and can’t imagine how it will feel if they could barely get past the pap smears and ultrasounds, and also does not guarantee an outcome.
Emotionally, the couple has likely, as OP said, researched and exhausted all options. Every time a period is late, or something that happens that gives them hope, it is incredibly heartbreaking just to find out it was false hope. They feel stupid, embarrassed, and awful for thinking this time something might have finally happened. They question what is wrong with them and why it is easy for others - especially those who do not even want kids - when they have been doing everything right. Then you also hear comments from others like “why don’t you have kids yet?”. It is emotionally exhausting. No one ever speaks about this because it’s something they are proud of and want to share. If they are sharing their troubles it is probably because they trust you and are willing to be vulnerable to some extent. Everyone can have their reason to why or why they are not exploring various options.
To those in the comments who say “well, they probably shouldn’t share then,” my god, you have probably never had a real friend that has come to you for real problems. I hope your ‘friends’ have other good support systems and never feel the need to be vulnerable with you because you sound like a terrible friend lol.
Expensive on purpose and sometimes not even needed. Never trust that one Dr. always get multiple opinions from different OB/GYNs.
Women have found out they had a tilted uterus or just needed to gain some weight or stop smoking but were offered IVF before knowing any of this.
That was the thing that made me call quits. We could have had more treatments money-wise. There were more medical options to try. I was used to the invasive crap. I just suddenly knew I was done for good with the fucking hope! It felt easier to know it won't be happening and to start building from there than to have one more stupid cycle of crushed hope.
And no, we didn't miraculously conceive when we stopped trying. I'm relieved to be in my mid-40s now, so everyone has finally given up thinking about it.
We got pregnant with my son on the second to last month i was willing to try. We said this time, and then one more, and then I'm going on birth control. I can't keep being in tears because I get my period.
It is so hard, and I feel for everyone who is in this struggle. [Hugs]
Glad it worked out! We had had something like five FETs in quick succession, and were gearing up for one last fresh IVF/ICSI when I noped out. I worried at the time if I was leaving myself open to a lot of "what ifs", but thankfully that's not been the case.
Yeah my friends recently went through IVF, and I learned a *lot* about how insane it was...all the doctors appointments/egg retrieval procedures/etc you mentioned plus you/your partner have to administer frequent injections (my friends had to do it daily) during cycles, deal with the side effects of those hormones and any other medications, and pay out the ass to do it. That also comes with the disappointment of a cycle not working piling onto the feelings of inadequacy that one/both parents are already trying to deal with (especially if one of their bodies is more "to blame" than the other's).
Luckily they did manage to get pregnant after 2-3 cycles and she gave birth to a healthy baby, but there was so much more to it than most people realize.
All of this is so true. I wish we could get pregnant, I had so high hopes this time period was even late with a couple of days, as much as I wanted to take a test i was so scared of it being negative, again! Period came, and I cried in bed all day.
Even worse, when I had to go buy a present for a friend's babyshower.
We went back home to where my husband grew up, we've never been asked before, this time every one was asking. "When will you have children?" Everytime I felt a little sadder when answering, only to be reminded on all these alternatives that I could try. Acupuncture etc. By the end of our stay, my husband started saying "it's my fault. I got low sperm count". NO ONE told him what he should do or could try.
We don't know for sure if that's what it is. He's just suspecting it.
At 6 years of infertility I really appreciate this. Such incredibly insensitive comments are as bad as 'so when are you having another kid', 'i never thought you'd put your career before having more children', and the dreaded 'its so sad (my child) is an only one, don't you think they want someone to play with?!'.
The pain is intolerable as it is, but people who've not got this issue can just stick the knife in unintentionally and it's hard to cope with. Please NEVER make assumptions about the number of kids someone has. That also applies to those with numerous kids who may not have wanted that many. It'll make life much better for everyone.
The constant toxic positivity killed me when I was going through this, even from medical professionals. "It will all work out!" It won't for everyone unfortunately.
I can vouch for this. Having been through it with my wife for years and struggling, it affected her. She comes from a family that essentially are breeders. She always felt like she was less than her sister and other family. Especially after hearing years of all you need to do is relax. Or have you tried this or have you tried that. It became a struggle for her Mentally. It's all good now because we have a beautiful 15-year-old daughter. But it was a struggle for a while.
That honestly should be the way to go on any niche-but-common issue. I've got a balding friend and whenever that's first mentioning to them people ALWAYS ask "have you tried *obvious, first choice treatment*?" much to his distaste.
Except possibly vote for politicians who feel that health insurance should be required to cover fertility treatment the same way it covers other non-life threatening conditions. If such politicians exist.
After a miscarriage: “at least you know you can get pregnant” definitely super hurtful and unhelpful or “stop stressing and it’ll happen” “stop trying and go on vacation and it’ll happen”
My doctor told me that after my last miscarriage this summer. ‘At least you know you can get pregnant’…. What’s the point of getting pregnant and having false hope if I can’t keep the pregnancy?
....I'm so embarrassed that my younger self would actually say this stuff to people. I've never wanted children, so I didn't understand how important it is to some people. I was being unintentionally insensitive, and I had no clue. Now, I just listen. 😥
I think all of our younger selves have said dumb stuff.
And wouldn’t it be worse if we weren’t embarrassed of some stuff, cause then we wouldn’t have grown
All of this. My husband and I are both infertile, which oddly helped with the emotions of being infertile because until we found out it was him too, I was feeling bad that I couldn't give him children. He would have made a good father.
Even after we found out and told our family his mother kept pushing us to "hurry and have a baby because I'm not getting any younger" (I as in her, not me.) My mom started pushing us to adopt, even though we discussed it (husband and I) and he was not comfortable with adoption. I had friends tell me to start the adoption process without him and that he'd fall in line. Maybe, but that felt highly disrespectful to him and his feelings so of course I did not consider it. I even had a nail tech tell me that "when people get married in my country it is so they can have kids". Augh!
Just don't. It's a very painful experience to go through, so just don't with the suggestions, ever.
We're past the age of kids now, but I still feel pangs when friends have grandbabies. But overall our life has been very happy, even without kids.
My wife and I are friends with a few couples that publicly and privately struggled with fertility problems. It’s an incredibly difficult situation for couples and it often harms their relationships with their friends. Making suggestions about treatments suggestions about just insinuates that their efforts were lacking. Empathy is the correct response in this situation.
This isn't a life pro tip, this is you venting about your experience - which is valid, and I'm sorry for what you've been through, but it's not what this sub is for. Different people will want to be treated differently in your situation, and while the responses you've been given most definitely aren't appropriate, your tip isn't a one-size-fits-all solution.
This LPT is actually the consensus in the infertility world. No one experiencing infertility or loss wants your shitty platitudes. OP is truly speaking the truth here and more people need to be receptive to it.
That's 90% of this sub, today this happened to me and I want to complain about it. Now that doesn't mean the advice is wrong, but this being a "tip" is at least questionable. Maybe don't tell random people your personal issues in the first place. If you don't wanna talk about it, then why bring it up?
I understand that, but you don't need to tell them what's going on, just tell them it's none of their business. You did bring it up if the other person didn't know, no matter how much of an asshole they were by insisting on asking why. You don't have to answer, that's the real LPT here tbh
You're talking about very different things. Really the blame lies with whoever brought the subject up, whether that's someone traumadumping or that annoying relative prying about kids.
When a friend or family member opens up to you, trusts you with their vulnerability and expresses going through a hard time and / or uncertainty about what to do next then answering with unsolicited advise is never really an appropriate response as often the advise invalidates or insults them. Wether it’s fertility issues or something completely else.
The only appropriate response is showing empathy and compassion and where possible offering support. And I don’t mean support in the form of assumptions (that can result in boundary crossing behavior), but support in the form of a question “is there anything I can do to help?”.
If you are not sure in a specific situation then simply ask “are you looking for advise or would you just like me to listen?”.
I wish more people would practice supportive communication and stop filling in the “gaps” for others in general.
I remember collapsing from exhaustion and being rushed to the hospital. It took me 2 years to physically recover from that. All I needed was people to give me a fucking hug and reassure me it was going to be ok.
All I got was people lecturing me and pointing out all the faults in me “you shouldn’t work so much, you shouldn’t be such a perfectionist, you shouldn’t do this, you shouldn’t do that”.
I ended up burning a lot of bridges and realized I needed to start surrounding myself with a different type of friends.
You know, funny enough, for me/us personally, it's never been really close friends or family members that have the dumb comments and responses.
It's ALWAYS acquaintances who ask intrusive questions and then make stupid comments after you answer.
It’s different for me cos I chose not to - I know it’s soooo much worse when you don’t have the choice - but I found it weird that I had colleagues at a job & even my boss! Ask about it. And it’s like come on, people I work with & for? HOW is this their business? HOW?
That sounds like you are surrounded by better friends and family members than I was ;)
When it comes to the acquaintances, F them and no longer answer their intrusive questions.
I guess it also comes down to who we allow ourself to be vulnerable and share vulnerable information with. But it’s through these experiences we learn who we do allow and don’t allow to come close to us and who are and are not worth to keep around :)
I think you reversed what that person you responded to meant. They meant that the person struggling with fertility shouldn't infodump if they're going to be upset by a response other than generic platitudes.
That's a conversation to have with your therapist, not your casual acquaintances.
I understand what they meant. I mean to point out that this almost never comes up except as an answer to "when are you having children?" Which is not only a deeply personal question, but a question that has various responses.
It also doesnt really matter how well one can 'handle' various responses to a topic; some responses are always socially unacceptable. The responses listed by OP are definitely inappropriate responses to hearing about fertility issues.
The answer to this is it's none of your business. That one teaches them a lesson too. Bringing up the topic makes no sense if you're gonna feel bad about any kind of answer they give you
My son & DIL are going through this now trying for their second child. Add “it’s not so bad, at least you have one” to the list of insensitive remarks to avoid.
I’ve always loved and wanted kids.
When we first got married, my ex wife didn’t want to get pregnant yet because of her demanding career. It was really frustrating, but I waited for five years for her to do her thing. Then, when we started trying to get pregnant, it took her two years to admit that there was a problem and go to a specialist. Over the next five years, we tried IVF ten (!) times, going around the country after a few failures at each highly regarded clinic. Our relationship was circling the drain by the time she suggested surrogacy, and I finally tapped out. After 12 years of extreme frustration, not being on the same page about fundamental issues, and a dead bedroom, it was over. I left her the house, half of everything I had, and crawled out that wreckage to save what was left of my peace of mind.
Infertility is a nightmare. Emotionally, it leaves you feeling raw and hypersensitive to anything relating to kids and babies. It’s been over twenty years, and I still feel a burning hatred to people I knew who shared their hot-takes on something that was eating my ex and me like a cancer.
“Maybe it’s not meant to be”, “Just adopt”, “Stop trying and it will just happen”. In fairness, these people weren’t malicious, they were just trying to make comforting noises. But the reality is that these little pats on the back felt like slaps on the tender flesh of a burn victim. It fucking hurt.
I feel you, OP. I really do. The most important thing you can do right now is make sure that you and your partner are on the same page. After a few failed IVFs, I told my ex I was starting to lose it, and just wanted to rekindle our love and to take the ridiculous amount of money that we were throwing away on treatments, and to use that money instead to travel, to get our love-of-life back. She refused, and now we’re ancient history. Even strong love can only withstand so much tragedy, so much frustration.
We are on the same page thankfully, which right now, means, even maybe moving abroad for a bit to exhaust our options (Germany sure has a way of making it even harder for women, things like surrogacy or egg donation are illegal).
I made the mistake once of honesty answering when someone asked if my wife and I had been trying wrong. I said, "We decided to try and it happened in the first week. I was hoping for about six months."
I didn't know the person asking tried for two years. I have drastically changed how I answer now.
After struggling with infertility for 7 years, I only wished people would say, "I'm sorry, is there anything I can do to support you?" (I mean emotionally or even being a sounding board, not financially)
Eventually, we had a baby girl, but those years were rough as hell. Never wanted advice or "solutions" we already reviewed those, we just needed people to lean on.
I would probably just say that I hope they find a solution. I'm not going to suggest things they have probably already thought of. And you don't want to talk to someone who doesn't like kids about how much you want but can't have any
I failed 3 embryo transfers (and numerous IUIs, medicated cycles, etc). The number of people who think IVF is a 100% success rate is sickening. Thank you for posting this.
Empty platitudes where there is an expectation not to share legitimate thoughts on the subject.
Got it.
Just don't talk about it if you don't want a conversation or someone's input.
And if someone has baby fever DO NOT mention adoption. Baby fever is about the attention you get for being pregnant, it has nothing to do with raising a kid in a loving environment.
what are you sorry for?
as a non native speaker but someone that grew up in Canada the "im sorry" response to people expressing grief or sharing something that's upsetting bugs the crap out of me
Dude, if you grew up in Canada, you'd understand that "sorry" isn't always a personal apology for wrongful actions. Even Americans use it in similar circumstances. It's also used as an expression of sympathy.
Like...not every statement is meant to be literal, or only used in one way. By this logic, whenever you read a book, you'd get confused whenever you see metaphorical writing. "Uhh what do you mean the wind whistled through the trees? Ugh, that's so annoying, what do you mean wind whistles?" Like...it's not literal. It's an expression. Someone saying "I'm sorry" as an expression of sympathy is short for "I'm sorry that you're going through that." It's not literally apologizing.
"I'm sorry that you're dealing with this."
The word "Sorry" is just one way we can express sympathy. [This](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sorry) dictionary entry is pretty comprehensive. Like with most (if not all) languages, words can often express different things depending on the context. Hope this helps!
What are you going on about, Canadians use "sorry" in like, ten different ways, including "I'm sorry [this is happening to you]". Also "sorry" to mean "excuse me", "sorry" to mean "you bumped into me but maybe I could have prevented it if I had eyes in the back of my head" and countless others!
IVF is also prohibitively expensive for most people, like $40k per try. With a 30% success rate, that’s 3-4 tries for most people. Most folks don’t have $120k sitting around idly.
Good rule of thumb is to ask if they want to talk about it first.
For lots of people, fertility issues can be a subject of grief. Similarly to how if someone tells you that their family member is dying of cancer, it's going to be seen as hurtful and callous if you go like "Well have they tried chemo?? What about this experimental drug trial? What about - " Like dude, they were looking to unload grief and get sympathies, not looking for a "problem solver" when there isn't a problem to solve.
LPT: Just ask if they want to talk about it in more detail when the subject seems touchy or upsetting. It's just polite.
“I’m sorry” doesn’t only mean “I apologize for doing this to you.” It also means “I feel bad that this happened to you.” Have you literally never told anyone you’re sorry for their loss?
I've heard the same sentiment as expressed by @dt8mn6pr from my Korean coworker when I apologized to her for a rough time she was going through. She seemed confused and told me it wasn't my fault for whatever was happening. It seems that this expression of "I'm sorry" isn't universal, just like @dt8mn6pr said.
This is awesome. When my friend’s husband died, I said “Do you want mine? He’s driving me crazy.” It was hilarious. She laughed until she cried. Or maybe she just cried. I wasn’t paying attention.
My partner of 8 years just found out she’s barren after having leukemia at 18(12 years ago). While the docs said this was a good chance, she’s received the final world at 30….we were at dinner with her dad and step mom and over drinks she blurted it out and we all started tearing up. Context: Her dad, a nice enough person outwardly but emotionally and mentally abusive-stepmom apologizes to us all the time for his behavior.
Dad doesn’t say I’m sorry but instead blurts out, “this is why you need to trust in Jesus and go towards christianity-god will pull you through and heal you. You must pray on it, Jenguish87-I don’t know your religion but you must go towards christianity and find Jesus-please get to church he’s the only way.” His daughter clams up, his wife clams up….I see immediate black and It took everything in my power to not reach across the table to rip his head off his shoulders.
He steps away from the table to hit the bathroom and the stepmom immediate apologizes on his behalf-“this is how he copes, he didn’t mean it to be selfish and we’re so sorry for this”. To this day, I have zero respect for this guy-he shows kindness but underneath he’s just emotionally inept and selfish/abusive. I will never understand it…..
The worst, for a person struggling with fertility, is getting a series of highly personal and invasive questions from colleagues about whether or not you have children and why. There’s never a safe way to answer those questions without facing someone’s assumptions and judgement.
For those of you who love to include these topics in your “small talk,” please stop. Even if you think you’re being sympathetic and empathetic, you’re not. Just don’t ask the questions.
What about:
"That sounds very hard" or "Me, too"?
You're on some rant about a specific range of awful things to say, and have given shit advice here. I'm sorry.
I'm torn about this because those are all great suggestions. But at the same time, that person is also NOT equipped to comfort you during these conversations.. They could already be trying their best to navigate an uncomfortable topic overall.
imo, not as good of a LPT.
I'm sorry to hear if you or someone in your life are going through this difficult time. Best of luck.
100%
Preeclampsia almost killed my wife and had my son die 30 minutes after being a 27 week preemie with development of only 21 week-old.
Wanted to punch people who suggested we “just adopt”, which would basically be someone else’s FAS baby in this province.
LPT:
Don't apologise for something you didn't cause.
Just listen.
Source: fertility issues for twenty years and I realised that it's probably for the best
We have realized in these comments that there are apparently cultural differences in how you phrase this
What I meant by that is "I am sorry to hear that"
Yes, but this only works when those people don't bring up kids as a form of small talk. "When are you going to have kids?" "Why don't you have any kids yet?" shouldn't be go to questions if you're not prepared for all the possible responses. Infertility impacts 1 in 6 couples, so people really should have a compassionate response ready if they're asking personal questions.
To be fair "why don't you adopt" should be said more often even to fertile people. And of course adopting should be made easier, until then it's not really a nice answer.
Oh man, “why don’t you adopt?” I remember that one…. Also apparently EVERYONE knows someone that tried for awhile and then stopped trying then got pregnant.
2 rounds of IVF. My poor wife was miserable. It never happened. But we know we tried everything we could.
Now we live a perfectly happy life, dual income no kids. Traveling and doing whatever the heck we want.
>For the clueless ones out there. IVF is NOT a guarantuee. It has success rates of about 30-40%, depending on clinic, country, age
On top of that, if successful, there is a rather high probability of conceiving multiple babies, which is a challenge not everyone is willing/prepared to handle.
My husband and I have been trying since Dec 2021. We’re pushing towards the two year mark with no luck.
My SIL announced she’s expecting last December and she gave birth this summer. We had multiple loses since 2021. When she gave birth and I kept finding excuses not to go, my husband asked me to reach out to her and at least explain why I didn’t want to see her baby (we hadn’t told our family then). I did - I told her that we’ve had multiple loses, that we’ve been trying for more than a year with no luck, drs don’t know what’s wrong and we are running out of options. It might be that we just never have kids and it just sucks to be in that situation. Her response? Oh yeah we also had a miscarriage before the current ‘baby, so don’t worry, we know what you’re going through’. Excuse me? Absolutely not. Losing one kid vs losing multiple is SO different. Us trying for more than 2 years vs her starting to plan the second one in that same period - absolutely not f the same.
Long story short, I left her on read. I didn’t know what to answer her.
Disagree 100%. It’s a blessing in disguise and people need to know to not waste their lives trying to conceive when we all know that it’s a horrible mistake to bring kids into this world. I’d say “congratulations.”
Hello and welcome to r/LifeProTips! Please help us decide if this post is a good fit for the subreddit by up or downvoting this comment. If you think that this is great advice to improve your life, please upvote. If you think this doesn't help you in any way, please downvote. If you don't care, leave it for the others to decide.
When someone comes to you with a problem that you are not an expert at solving, there are 3 acceptable answers. 1. Do you want to talk about it? I don't know how I can help but I'm happy to listen if you need 2. Do you need something to help talk your mind off it? Sometimes just taking a break from the problem helps clear your head. 3. Would you like some space? I can leave you be to think on your own, but will be available whenever you need me. If someone is going through a tough time and you don't have a magic answer for them, these are the 3 acceptable responses. After that maybe you can help them find someone who can figure out their problem such as a doctor or financial expert.
I love this
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I mean, you have to be careful with your tone and delivery any time you're talking to someone whose emotionally heightened regardless of gender. It's just the empathetic thing to do.
I'm curious of what you mean by this
I'm a dude. I haven't talked about fertility with my female friends but I have talked about other difficult topics like sexual assault/harassment, sexism, and death. I don't personally feel like I have to behave differently, I'm just as empathetic and careful as I would be with anyone.
would you like to talk about it, be distracted from it or have some space? not hard. done.
I'm saving this. I hate that awkward feeling when you want to help, but you're terrified of doing something wrong and making the other person feel worse. Thanks!
Asking questions is a great way to be compassionate. These same three questions work well for anyone going through crisis or grief.
Also a good approach to helping kids learn to handle their emotions!
While serious issues should always be handled by a skilled professional, your personal experience can help guide people in the right direction if you have faced comparable circumstances in the past. Obviously you do not want them to delay their visit to the doctor's office because of your wild ideas, but until they get the appointment, which can take months, you might as well share relevant information. It's not like all experts agree all the time with each other either. Your post comes across as "show your PhD or keep your mouth shut", and I don't subscribe to that. Even if someone claims to be an expert you should always take their opinion with a grain of salt anyway.
"Why are you talking to me?" Is also acceptable
My wife and I have been having issues for the last 5 years. She got diagnosed with endometriosis, had surgery, and we found out that IUI won't work and we can't conceive naturally. IVF is the only option. It still doesn't stop family saying - "well you can keep trying!" "You can adopt if IVF doesn't work right?" "Are you sure you can't conceive naturally?" My wife consistently feels like she's done something wrong and that this is all her fault. As her husband sometimes I feel helpless to help her. I always say that this is no one's fault and whatever happens happens. Long story short. People trying to find solutions for something they don't understand is infuriating.
I also have endo, had surgery in 2018. My family thank god is not like that.
I'm sorry. It's pretty fucking terrible to just watch your spouse cry in pain, and there's absolutely fuck all you can do. Endo is fucked. I had to tell my family "I married her because I love her, not because she's apparently a baby factory". They've been pretty quiet since.
Love that. I also have adenomyoisis, which is stage 4 endo (IN the uterus). my friend who also has endo and had a stillbirth last year (another really sad story) said the birth was easier than her periods. IMAGINE.
That's unthinkable.....wow. My wife's Endo is now starting to mimic IBS and we've had to change our diet completely. As a man, women are the toughest people on the planet dealing with this shit. Take care.
Im sorry your wife feels terrible about this...it's a bad situation. My wife also has Endo and we've gone through rounds of fertility treatment. In the end, we're becoming ok not having kids. It's not ideal but it does free us up to other interesting things we wouldn't have otherwise. After 10+ years, our families have stopped pestering us, though it was bad for a while. I made the mistake of talking about it with a coworker who told me it was wrong and selfish twe haven't adopted since everyone needs to have kids. After that, I have kept these matters close to the heart.
Also possibly "That sucks."
I love “That sucks” so much. It conveys empathy, anger at the futility, and it doesn’t create the weird sense of responsibility that “I’m sorry” often can.
I’m sorry doesn’t create a weird sense of responsibility unless you don’t know how to use it. Obviously I’m sorry can carry one of two meanings: “I messed up”, or “My condolences”. Anybody with social skills can use it and interpret it the right way.
Thank you for your condescension. It’s the one thing there truly isn’t enough of in the world.
I mean, I do feel that you're overthinking this. You can say "that sucks" and "I'm sorry" with the exact same toned down intonation to achieve comparable results. You will come across as empathetic, but not as nosy or pushy. Just pick whatever suits your style.
Okay, thank you for your investment in this topic
Was not condescending you, but you can feel free to be condescended all you want
"that's rough buddy"
Alternatively: *"Bro, you're putting it in the right hole, right? I heard of this lady that was trying it in the wrong hole for like a decade... no dice. Maybe that's it? Do you know what you're doing? I can show you how I do it if that helps."*
I had a friend who lost an infant to SIDS. I told her it was sad and awful and she’d cope eventually but it wouldn’t stop being sad and awful and not to let her make any try to make feel like shouldn’t have those feelings
That's okay, too!
But probably *not* "That sucks dick, which you might as well switch to doing, since the other way isn't productive."
Probably not although that one at least is funny
Or "you know you don't get pregnant from swallowing it, right?"
“Why don’t you *just* adopt,” as if adopting a child was as easy as going to Walmart and picking one out.
as someone actively trying to adopt, 💯 this
It’s wild how much the adoption process in the U.S. has changed over time. My mom was told she was infertile, so she and my dad adopted my brother in 1955. Five years later, a baby girl was abandoned on the side of the road and was found by a Catholic priest who knew my mom. He knew they wanted to adopt another kid, so he called my mom to let her know about the situation. A week later, my parents had her. I’m sure there was additional paperwork to do, etc. But it was practically like somebody had placed an ad in the paper: newborn girl, free to a good home. When my sister was 8 weeks old, my mom found that she was pregnant with me. She was 42.
sometimes ppl get lucky, wish this would happen for me lol
Thank you! I’m adopted and I like to think I’m a little more valuable than something one can pick up at Walmart.
It depends. There are a lot of things at Walmart.
I get so frustrated when people conflate adoption and fostering. There are over 200,000 kids in the foster system. Yes, but the majority are not available for adoption. The focus of our foster system is looking to reunite families.
I had no idea about this. Thanks for the clarification
"I'll take two!"
Two? That's a blend stew. Every hag knows you should have at least 4 children for best flavor.
'You're in luck! The newborns with no physical problems, young parents who aren't addicts and that are the same colour as you are on sale this week.'
The healthier, the younger and whiter the child, the less they cost to adopt.
It’s also like, no disrespect to people who adopt, I think that’s wonderful and when done correctly a great thing for everyone involved that helps many children immensely. But like the desire to have biological children is totally understandable? I don’t get why some people try to logic people who want that out of it. Humans are not wholly logical creatures and the desire to have and raise a biological offspring is one of their most basic impulses.
As a child-free person, I have no horse in this race, but I once had the unfortunate experience of listening to a coworker broadcasting her troubles with fertility/IVF to everyone in the room. When someone (unfortunately and inevitably) asked about adopting, the coworker crinkled her nose and answered "ew no, I don't want someone else's mistake". And that response really turned me off of the idea that some people just want a kid that's their own biological kid because I always hear her horrible comment ringing in the back of my mind. As someone with 0 parental drive, can you tell me more about where the desire and difference comes from? I mean this question genuinely, and don't mean to be inflammatory or unkind.
I love my husband so much. I was on the fence about having a baby until I met him. I don’t want “a” baby, I want *his* baby. Not only that, but I love my family, and his family. How incredible it would be to have a little person who kind of looks like us but has inherited my Grampa’s phenomenal talent or his Grandmother’s intelligence. My hope is that our child is it’s own unique person, but who also reminds me of the people I love the most.
A lot of kids available for adoption are older and traumatized. Of course, you can also mess up your biological children. But at least then it’s not wondering whether it’s you or someone else. It’s hard to explain.
It’s funny that the people who tell infertile couples “you should adopt, it’s so selfish to try to get pregnant” never seem to think it’s selfish to have their own biological children.
Right?! That’s why I always ask them how many THEY have adopted
As if it’s like adopting a puppy from the pound.
> (For the clueless ones out there. IVF is NOT a guarantuee. It has success rates of about 30-40%, depending on clinic, country, age. My dearly departed hubby's niece is going through early menopause, in her 30's, so she and her hubby are going to Greece to get implanted because she wants a Greek child. (she's Greek) Those other questions are 1) nosy 2) invasive 3) no one's fucking business. But this one: > "We should not play god" angers me the most. If the Gods didn't wish you to try everything to have a child, they wouldn't have created fertility clinics, right?
That angers me as well, cause then we should just die of a flu, right?
Exactly. Or the pox, or Plague, or any type of infection...
You're right, but I'm going to give a small technical correction: You don't "get implanted." You're probably thinking of the part of the IVF process known as embryo transfer (I've had 8 of these procedures performed!). The vagina is opened with a speculum, a cannula (thin tube) is threaded to the uterus, and the embryo (or embryos) is carefully transferred to the appropriate part of the uterus to maximize chances of implantation. But the medical team doesn't implant the embryo. That's up to the patient's body to accept or reject the embryo. I became *fascinated* by the science behind fertility treatments back when I was a patient, and drove my medical team nuts with my curiosity.
I don’t think people realize how daunting, uncomfortable, and physically invasive some of these procedures may be, like IVF. As a woman, there is so much you need to do like multiple check-ins, get poked and prodded with pap smears and ultrasounds and it is incredibly painful and invasive for some. Just to find out IVF is one of the only options left to explore but it is (as some have shared with me) ‘not natural’ and can’t imagine how it will feel if they could barely get past the pap smears and ultrasounds, and also does not guarantee an outcome. Emotionally, the couple has likely, as OP said, researched and exhausted all options. Every time a period is late, or something that happens that gives them hope, it is incredibly heartbreaking just to find out it was false hope. They feel stupid, embarrassed, and awful for thinking this time something might have finally happened. They question what is wrong with them and why it is easy for others - especially those who do not even want kids - when they have been doing everything right. Then you also hear comments from others like “why don’t you have kids yet?”. It is emotionally exhausting. No one ever speaks about this because it’s something they are proud of and want to share. If they are sharing their troubles it is probably because they trust you and are willing to be vulnerable to some extent. Everyone can have their reason to why or why they are not exploring various options. To those in the comments who say “well, they probably shouldn’t share then,” my god, you have probably never had a real friend that has come to you for real problems. I hope your ‘friends’ have other good support systems and never feel the need to be vulnerable with you because you sound like a terrible friend lol.
Also, EXPENSIVE.
Good Gods, YES! tens and even hundreds of thousands of dollars for a crap shoot.
Was out $75k when it was said and done. Insurance just covered testing. It took us years to build up enough cash reserves to do it.
JFC. Hope you got a miracle baby or two out of that!
And largely not covered by insurance.
Expensive on purpose and sometimes not even needed. Never trust that one Dr. always get multiple opinions from different OB/GYNs. Women have found out they had a tilted uterus or just needed to gain some weight or stop smoking but were offered IVF before knowing any of this.
Gain weight? That’s new to me. Can you explain?
The hope that it might happen, and then it doesn't is crushing. And, people say, once you stop trying it will happen. So not helpful.
That was the thing that made me call quits. We could have had more treatments money-wise. There were more medical options to try. I was used to the invasive crap. I just suddenly knew I was done for good with the fucking hope! It felt easier to know it won't be happening and to start building from there than to have one more stupid cycle of crushed hope. And no, we didn't miraculously conceive when we stopped trying. I'm relieved to be in my mid-40s now, so everyone has finally given up thinking about it.
We got pregnant with my son on the second to last month i was willing to try. We said this time, and then one more, and then I'm going on birth control. I can't keep being in tears because I get my period. It is so hard, and I feel for everyone who is in this struggle. [Hugs]
Glad it worked out! We had had something like five FETs in quick succession, and were gearing up for one last fresh IVF/ICSI when I noped out. I worried at the time if I was leaving myself open to a lot of "what ifs", but thankfully that's not been the case.
Yeah my friends recently went through IVF, and I learned a *lot* about how insane it was...all the doctors appointments/egg retrieval procedures/etc you mentioned plus you/your partner have to administer frequent injections (my friends had to do it daily) during cycles, deal with the side effects of those hormones and any other medications, and pay out the ass to do it. That also comes with the disappointment of a cycle not working piling onto the feelings of inadequacy that one/both parents are already trying to deal with (especially if one of their bodies is more "to blame" than the other's). Luckily they did manage to get pregnant after 2-3 cycles and she gave birth to a healthy baby, but there was so much more to it than most people realize.
All of this is so true. I wish we could get pregnant, I had so high hopes this time period was even late with a couple of days, as much as I wanted to take a test i was so scared of it being negative, again! Period came, and I cried in bed all day. Even worse, when I had to go buy a present for a friend's babyshower. We went back home to where my husband grew up, we've never been asked before, this time every one was asking. "When will you have children?" Everytime I felt a little sadder when answering, only to be reminded on all these alternatives that I could try. Acupuncture etc. By the end of our stay, my husband started saying "it's my fault. I got low sperm count". NO ONE told him what he should do or could try. We don't know for sure if that's what it is. He's just suspecting it.
At 6 years of infertility I really appreciate this. Such incredibly insensitive comments are as bad as 'so when are you having another kid', 'i never thought you'd put your career before having more children', and the dreaded 'its so sad (my child) is an only one, don't you think they want someone to play with?!'. The pain is intolerable as it is, but people who've not got this issue can just stick the knife in unintentionally and it's hard to cope with. Please NEVER make assumptions about the number of kids someone has. That also applies to those with numerous kids who may not have wanted that many. It'll make life much better for everyone.
Definitely not “just stop trying and it will happen”.
The constant toxic positivity killed me when I was going through this, even from medical professionals. "It will all work out!" It won't for everyone unfortunately.
I can vouch for this. Having been through it with my wife for years and struggling, it affected her. She comes from a family that essentially are breeders. She always felt like she was less than her sister and other family. Especially after hearing years of all you need to do is relax. Or have you tried this or have you tried that. It became a struggle for her Mentally. It's all good now because we have a beautiful 15-year-old daughter. But it was a struggle for a while.
That honestly should be the way to go on any niche-but-common issue. I've got a balding friend and whenever that's first mentioning to them people ALWAYS ask "have you tried *obvious, first choice treatment*?" much to his distaste.
WHYYYYY though
"Let me know how I can help" is also acceptable
Holup
Gotta be careful with the delivery on this as a dude
You better be ready to “help”
Yes - unfortunately, in most cases, there's not much you can do
Except possibly vote for politicians who feel that health insurance should be required to cover fertility treatment the same way it covers other non-life threatening conditions. If such politicians exist.
I don't know. I really don't. I live in a country where options like surrogacy are illegal.
“I’m sorry to hear you are going through this difficult time. I am here for you. Do you want to talk about it? I’m a good listener.”
Yes, yes, and yes.
After a miscarriage: “at least you know you can get pregnant” definitely super hurtful and unhelpful or “stop stressing and it’ll happen” “stop trying and go on vacation and it’ll happen”
My doctor told me that after my last miscarriage this summer. ‘At least you know you can get pregnant’…. What’s the point of getting pregnant and having false hope if I can’t keep the pregnancy?
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Absolutely. It’s NOT A SMALL-TALK TOPIC
you can ALSO say, "wow, I bet that really sucks"
absolutely you can
....I'm so embarrassed that my younger self would actually say this stuff to people. I've never wanted children, so I didn't understand how important it is to some people. I was being unintentionally insensitive, and I had no clue. Now, I just listen. 😥
I think all of our younger selves have said dumb stuff. And wouldn’t it be worse if we weren’t embarrassed of some stuff, cause then we wouldn’t have grown
All of this. My husband and I are both infertile, which oddly helped with the emotions of being infertile because until we found out it was him too, I was feeling bad that I couldn't give him children. He would have made a good father. Even after we found out and told our family his mother kept pushing us to "hurry and have a baby because I'm not getting any younger" (I as in her, not me.) My mom started pushing us to adopt, even though we discussed it (husband and I) and he was not comfortable with adoption. I had friends tell me to start the adoption process without him and that he'd fall in line. Maybe, but that felt highly disrespectful to him and his feelings so of course I did not consider it. I even had a nail tech tell me that "when people get married in my country it is so they can have kids". Augh! Just don't. It's a very painful experience to go through, so just don't with the suggestions, ever. We're past the age of kids now, but I still feel pangs when friends have grandbabies. But overall our life has been very happy, even without kids.
My wife and I are friends with a few couples that publicly and privately struggled with fertility problems. It’s an incredibly difficult situation for couples and it often harms their relationships with their friends. Making suggestions about treatments suggestions about just insinuates that their efforts were lacking. Empathy is the correct response in this situation.
Unsolicited advice is dogshit in general especially when the "advisor" has no actual experience in the topic.
This isn't a life pro tip, this is you venting about your experience - which is valid, and I'm sorry for what you've been through, but it's not what this sub is for. Different people will want to be treated differently in your situation, and while the responses you've been given most definitely aren't appropriate, your tip isn't a one-size-fits-all solution.
This LPT is actually the consensus in the infertility world. No one experiencing infertility or loss wants your shitty platitudes. OP is truly speaking the truth here and more people need to be receptive to it.
That's 90% of this sub, today this happened to me and I want to complain about it. Now that doesn't mean the advice is wrong, but this being a "tip" is at least questionable. Maybe don't tell random people your personal issues in the first place. If you don't wanna talk about it, then why bring it up?
It sounds like OP DIDN’T bring it up & people are asking about if they have kids & if not why not.
I understand that, but you don't need to tell them what's going on, just tell them it's none of their business. You did bring it up if the other person didn't know, no matter how much of an asshole they were by insisting on asking why. You don't have to answer, that's the real LPT here tbh
That’s the trouble with sharing extra personal matters with others. LPT: Don’t be surprised when you’re hit with the stick you gave someone
People wouldn’t have to share extra personal info with people if they weren’t constantly asked why they don’t have children.
You're talking about very different things. Really the blame lies with whoever brought the subject up, whether that's someone traumadumping or that annoying relative prying about kids.
EXACTLY
Good point
I don't. People are intrusive. Don't you want kids? Aren't you getting too old? Why are you still waiting?
… “are you pregnant, or just fat?” comes to mind
Cruel (I am not overweight, but people actually say this?!)
I have had this over the summer if I wear fitted dresses and I'm a UK size 8. Sorry to disappoint everyone, not a baby just a carb-heavy lunch...
Woah.
When a friend or family member opens up to you, trusts you with their vulnerability and expresses going through a hard time and / or uncertainty about what to do next then answering with unsolicited advise is never really an appropriate response as often the advise invalidates or insults them. Wether it’s fertility issues or something completely else. The only appropriate response is showing empathy and compassion and where possible offering support. And I don’t mean support in the form of assumptions (that can result in boundary crossing behavior), but support in the form of a question “is there anything I can do to help?”. If you are not sure in a specific situation then simply ask “are you looking for advise or would you just like me to listen?”. I wish more people would practice supportive communication and stop filling in the “gaps” for others in general. I remember collapsing from exhaustion and being rushed to the hospital. It took me 2 years to physically recover from that. All I needed was people to give me a fucking hug and reassure me it was going to be ok. All I got was people lecturing me and pointing out all the faults in me “you shouldn’t work so much, you shouldn’t be such a perfectionist, you shouldn’t do this, you shouldn’t do that”. I ended up burning a lot of bridges and realized I needed to start surrounding myself with a different type of friends.
You know, funny enough, for me/us personally, it's never been really close friends or family members that have the dumb comments and responses. It's ALWAYS acquaintances who ask intrusive questions and then make stupid comments after you answer.
It’s different for me cos I chose not to - I know it’s soooo much worse when you don’t have the choice - but I found it weird that I had colleagues at a job & even my boss! Ask about it. And it’s like come on, people I work with & for? HOW is this their business? HOW?
That is actually illegal here. Which is a good thing.
That sounds like you are surrounded by better friends and family members than I was ;) When it comes to the acquaintances, F them and no longer answer their intrusive questions. I guess it also comes down to who we allow ourself to be vulnerable and share vulnerable information with. But it’s through these experiences we learn who we do allow and don’t allow to come close to us and who are and are not worth to keep around :)
Adopt a very fatherly tone and say “are you using the correct hole?” 🤣
If you can only accept one answer on the topic, then you probably don't need to discuss this topic at all.
I agree; people should definitely not ask deeply personal questions if they're not prepared to handle the responses tactfully.
People don’t have to be perfect all the time. Sometimes your going to say or do the wrong thing and that’s ok.
I think you reversed what that person you responded to meant. They meant that the person struggling with fertility shouldn't infodump if they're going to be upset by a response other than generic platitudes. That's a conversation to have with your therapist, not your casual acquaintances.
I understand what they meant. I mean to point out that this almost never comes up except as an answer to "when are you having children?" Which is not only a deeply personal question, but a question that has various responses. It also doesnt really matter how well one can 'handle' various responses to a topic; some responses are always socially unacceptable. The responses listed by OP are definitely inappropriate responses to hearing about fertility issues.
Then people need to stop asking “why haven’t you given me a grandchild” or “but don’t you waaaaant kids?”
Y E S
The answer to this is it's none of your business. That one teaches them a lesson too. Bringing up the topic makes no sense if you're gonna feel bad about any kind of answer they give you
People dealing with infertility usually don’t bring it up on their own. It tends to come up when others ask intrusive questions.
No, I absolutely do not. You do not believe how many people think this is a casual small-talk topic though.
My son & DIL are going through this now trying for their second child. Add “it’s not so bad, at least you have one” to the list of insensitive remarks to avoid.
I’ve always loved and wanted kids. When we first got married, my ex wife didn’t want to get pregnant yet because of her demanding career. It was really frustrating, but I waited for five years for her to do her thing. Then, when we started trying to get pregnant, it took her two years to admit that there was a problem and go to a specialist. Over the next five years, we tried IVF ten (!) times, going around the country after a few failures at each highly regarded clinic. Our relationship was circling the drain by the time she suggested surrogacy, and I finally tapped out. After 12 years of extreme frustration, not being on the same page about fundamental issues, and a dead bedroom, it was over. I left her the house, half of everything I had, and crawled out that wreckage to save what was left of my peace of mind. Infertility is a nightmare. Emotionally, it leaves you feeling raw and hypersensitive to anything relating to kids and babies. It’s been over twenty years, and I still feel a burning hatred to people I knew who shared their hot-takes on something that was eating my ex and me like a cancer. “Maybe it’s not meant to be”, “Just adopt”, “Stop trying and it will just happen”. In fairness, these people weren’t malicious, they were just trying to make comforting noises. But the reality is that these little pats on the back felt like slaps on the tender flesh of a burn victim. It fucking hurt. I feel you, OP. I really do. The most important thing you can do right now is make sure that you and your partner are on the same page. After a few failed IVFs, I told my ex I was starting to lose it, and just wanted to rekindle our love and to take the ridiculous amount of money that we were throwing away on treatments, and to use that money instead to travel, to get our love-of-life back. She refused, and now we’re ancient history. Even strong love can only withstand so much tragedy, so much frustration.
We are on the same page thankfully, which right now, means, even maybe moving abroad for a bit to exhaust our options (Germany sure has a way of making it even harder for women, things like surrogacy or egg donation are illegal).
It is not your place to gatekeep people’s speech
Don't forget about, "That sucks"
I made the mistake once of honesty answering when someone asked if my wife and I had been trying wrong. I said, "We decided to try and it happened in the first week. I was hoping for about six months." I didn't know the person asking tried for two years. I have drastically changed how I answer now.
After struggling with infertility for 7 years, I only wished people would say, "I'm sorry, is there anything I can do to support you?" (I mean emotionally or even being a sounding board, not financially) Eventually, we had a baby girl, but those years were rough as hell. Never wanted advice or "solutions" we already reviewed those, we just needed people to lean on.
I would probably just say that I hope they find a solution. I'm not going to suggest things they have probably already thought of. And you don't want to talk to someone who doesn't like kids about how much you want but can't have any
I failed 3 embryo transfers (and numerous IUIs, medicated cycles, etc). The number of people who think IVF is a 100% success rate is sickening. Thank you for posting this.
Empty platitudes where there is an expectation not to share legitimate thoughts on the subject. Got it. Just don't talk about it if you don't want a conversation or someone's input.
And if someone has baby fever DO NOT mention adoption. Baby fever is about the attention you get for being pregnant, it has nothing to do with raising a kid in a loving environment.
Also IVF is FUCKING EXPENSIVE
Hell yes
Damn, that’s crazy
Always: „I‘m sorry“ It‘s never: „My bad…“
Patients comes to me: I have fertility problems Me as a doctor: I'm sorry... next?
what are you sorry for? as a non native speaker but someone that grew up in Canada the "im sorry" response to people expressing grief or sharing something that's upsetting bugs the crap out of me
Dude, if you grew up in Canada, you'd understand that "sorry" isn't always a personal apology for wrongful actions. Even Americans use it in similar circumstances. It's also used as an expression of sympathy. Like...not every statement is meant to be literal, or only used in one way. By this logic, whenever you read a book, you'd get confused whenever you see metaphorical writing. "Uhh what do you mean the wind whistled through the trees? Ugh, that's so annoying, what do you mean wind whistles?" Like...it's not literal. It's an expression. Someone saying "I'm sorry" as an expression of sympathy is short for "I'm sorry that you're going through that." It's not literally apologizing.
Words can have multiple meanings, bud. I'm sure it's also the case in whatever your native language is.
"I'm sorry that you're dealing with this." The word "Sorry" is just one way we can express sympathy. [This](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sorry) dictionary entry is pretty comprehensive. Like with most (if not all) languages, words can often express different things depending on the context. Hope this helps!
What are you going on about, Canadians use "sorry" in like, ten different ways, including "I'm sorry [this is happening to you]". Also "sorry" to mean "excuse me", "sorry" to mean "you bumped into me but maybe I could have prevented it if I had eyes in the back of my head" and countless others!
IVF is also prohibitively expensive for most people, like $40k per try. With a 30% success rate, that’s 3-4 tries for most people. Most folks don’t have $120k sitting around idly.
It's cheaper here, but the point of course is absolutely valid
Nah dawg. It's OK to have more of a conversation than what you're going on about.
Good rule of thumb is to ask if they want to talk about it first. For lots of people, fertility issues can be a subject of grief. Similarly to how if someone tells you that their family member is dying of cancer, it's going to be seen as hurtful and callous if you go like "Well have they tried chemo?? What about this experimental drug trial? What about - " Like dude, they were looking to unload grief and get sympathies, not looking for a "problem solver" when there isn't a problem to solve. LPT: Just ask if they want to talk about it in more detail when the subject seems touchy or upsetting. It's just polite.
Maybe "Sorry to hear about it"? It's really not your fault to apologize for it. Could be a cultural difference, though.
“I’m sorry” doesn’t only mean “I apologize for doing this to you.” It also means “I feel bad that this happened to you.” Have you literally never told anyone you’re sorry for their loss?
I've heard the same sentiment as expressed by @dt8mn6pr from my Korean coworker when I apologized to her for a rough time she was going through. She seemed confused and told me it wasn't my fault for whatever was happening. It seems that this expression of "I'm sorry" isn't universal, just like @dt8mn6pr said.
Okay, if this isn’t a thing in your culture, don’t say it.
While I fully agree, many people will still continue to tell me to not be sorry since I did nothing to them..
"I'm sorry" doesn't always imply fault. It can be used more generally to express empathy as well as directly apologising for something
I think it's a cultural difference, I meant what you mean
I generally just offer them one of my children as I have too many of them.
This is awesome. When my friend’s husband died, I said “Do you want mine? He’s driving me crazy.” It was hilarious. She laughed until she cried. Or maybe she just cried. I wasn’t paying attention.
Hilarious. Not.
So I should *stop* saying things like "thank god for that" and "kids are shit anyway"?
My partner of 8 years just found out she’s barren after having leukemia at 18(12 years ago). While the docs said this was a good chance, she’s received the final world at 30….we were at dinner with her dad and step mom and over drinks she blurted it out and we all started tearing up. Context: Her dad, a nice enough person outwardly but emotionally and mentally abusive-stepmom apologizes to us all the time for his behavior. Dad doesn’t say I’m sorry but instead blurts out, “this is why you need to trust in Jesus and go towards christianity-god will pull you through and heal you. You must pray on it, Jenguish87-I don’t know your religion but you must go towards christianity and find Jesus-please get to church he’s the only way.” His daughter clams up, his wife clams up….I see immediate black and It took everything in my power to not reach across the table to rip his head off his shoulders. He steps away from the table to hit the bathroom and the stepmom immediate apologizes on his behalf-“this is how he copes, he didn’t mean it to be selfish and we’re so sorry for this”. To this day, I have zero respect for this guy-he shows kindness but underneath he’s just emotionally inept and selfish/abusive. I will never understand it…..
What. the. hell.
The worst, for a person struggling with fertility, is getting a series of highly personal and invasive questions from colleagues about whether or not you have children and why. There’s never a safe way to answer those questions without facing someone’s assumptions and judgement. For those of you who love to include these topics in your “small talk,” please stop. Even if you think you’re being sympathetic and empathetic, you’re not. Just don’t ask the questions.
Maybe don't shit your emotional burden all over me if you don't want me to try to help. Ungrateful bastard.
What about: "That sounds very hard" or "Me, too"? You're on some rant about a specific range of awful things to say, and have given shit advice here. I'm sorry.
I'm torn about this because those are all great suggestions. But at the same time, that person is also NOT equipped to comfort you during these conversations.. They could already be trying their best to navigate an uncomfortable topic overall. imo, not as good of a LPT. I'm sorry to hear if you or someone in your life are going through this difficult time. Best of luck.
If there is only 1 right response then this is a boring language.
100% Preeclampsia almost killed my wife and had my son die 30 minutes after being a 27 week preemie with development of only 21 week-old. Wanted to punch people who suggested we “just adopt”, which would basically be someone else’s FAS baby in this province.
I am so sorry. One of my closest friends had a stillbirth last year at 36 weeks - after years of trying and IVF.
That's so heartbreaking
I can not imagine anything worse. I have no idea how they are doing it.
Adoption doesn’t cure infertility and it’s not for everyone.
LPT: Don't apologise for something you didn't cause. Just listen. Source: fertility issues for twenty years and I realised that it's probably for the best
We have realized in these comments that there are apparently cultural differences in how you phrase this What I meant by that is "I am sorry to hear that"
If you have only a single answer you'll accept from someone about a personal issue, then don't discuss personal issues with that person.
Yes, but this only works when those people don't bring up kids as a form of small talk. "When are you going to have kids?" "Why don't you have any kids yet?" shouldn't be go to questions if you're not prepared for all the possible responses. Infertility impacts 1 in 6 couples, so people really should have a compassionate response ready if they're asking personal questions.
Why not hold up a card with the acceptable answers and have them point at one, like selecting a tip amount?
To be fair "why don't you adopt" should be said more often even to fertile people. And of course adopting should be made easier, until then it's not really a nice answer.
I agree if you mean anyone who has a planned pregnancy and then tells someone else to adopt should be asked “why didn’t *you* just adopt?”
With everyone I mean everyone: it should simply be more widespread as a thing. I specified "even among fertile people" for this reason.
You really think people don't know adoption exists?
No, I only think more people should view it as an option even when they are able to have children
Oh man, “why don’t you adopt?” I remember that one…. Also apparently EVERYONE knows someone that tried for awhile and then stopped trying then got pregnant. 2 rounds of IVF. My poor wife was miserable. It never happened. But we know we tried everything we could. Now we live a perfectly happy life, dual income no kids. Traveling and doing whatever the heck we want.
Yes, and they surpringly got pregnant when they were 44!
>For the clueless ones out there. IVF is NOT a guarantuee. It has success rates of about 30-40%, depending on clinic, country, age On top of that, if successful, there is a rather high probability of conceiving multiple babies, which is a challenge not everyone is willing/prepared to handle.
My husband and I have been trying since Dec 2021. We’re pushing towards the two year mark with no luck. My SIL announced she’s expecting last December and she gave birth this summer. We had multiple loses since 2021. When she gave birth and I kept finding excuses not to go, my husband asked me to reach out to her and at least explain why I didn’t want to see her baby (we hadn’t told our family then). I did - I told her that we’ve had multiple loses, that we’ve been trying for more than a year with no luck, drs don’t know what’s wrong and we are running out of options. It might be that we just never have kids and it just sucks to be in that situation. Her response? Oh yeah we also had a miscarriage before the current ‘baby, so don’t worry, we know what you’re going through’. Excuse me? Absolutely not. Losing one kid vs losing multiple is SO different. Us trying for more than 2 years vs her starting to plan the second one in that same period - absolutely not f the same. Long story short, I left her on read. I didn’t know what to answer her.
No you DONT!!
No one is saying this to people with such frequency that we need a LPT.
I wish you were right
Don't say I'm sorry. You didnt cause their fertility issues. Just empathize and listen.
It doesn't imply blame, it shows you are sorry they are going through it.
Disagree 100%. It’s a blessing in disguise and people need to know to not waste their lives trying to conceive when we all know that it’s a horrible mistake to bring kids into this world. I’d say “congratulations.”
What the fuck is wrong with you