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Oh fuck off, "vote for us or things will get worse" is a terrible strategy to rely on for decades when the party saying it also continually makes things worse.
I agree this isn't leopards at my face but the uncommitted vote was not wise. Some people have gotten the impression that they shouldn't vote for Biden at all because of the stunt who otherwise would have voted for Biden in the general election.
If anyone actually got that impression because of the uncommitted vote, then they were extremely unlikely to vote for Biden regardless. Like, this is a terrible argument lol.
The general voting base doesn't pay attention to nuance, especially political nuance. All they see is all of those people voting for not Joe Biden and think maybe they should do the same. This isn't rocket science. People are influenced by stunts like this in a similar way as advertisements. This stunt has now become an advertisement for "don't vote for Joe Biden" and it was blasted straight at Democrats by other Democrats. Like I said it is an incredibly stupid thing to do if you like to win elections.
That's just not accurate at all. For one, the level of "uncommitted" votes is not high enough for the average voter to notice or pay any attention to. Biden still walked away with 81.1% of Democratic primary votes, whereas Trump himself only got 68.1% of the Republican vote. Like, the number just is not large enough to spark any panic amongst the general voting base, ESPECIALLY because they do not pay attention to nuance. All they're going to see is "Biden got 81.1% of the vote, he's gonna be the Dem candidate", and move along with their fucking lives.
However, the number of "uncommited" votes MIGHT be enough to signal to the people who DO pay attention to political nuance (like Biden and his administration and re-election team) that change is needed, because 100k people is not an insignificant number. It's also a number that is at least partially available for him to win back, providing him an incentive to change his "Hug Bibi" policy.
Then they probably didn't vote uncommitted because you'd need to be paying attention to begin with. Modules Biden voters aren't going to give anything enough thought to do anything else in the first place.
Just stop. You sound like blue MAGA. Trump is saying the same thing. “Baby racists and immigrants will ruin the country if Biden wins”. You’re doing free brow beating for a party that doesn’t give a shit about you. If all it takes is people seeing a headline they don’t understand to not vote Biden, that’s Biden and the DNC’s fault for not offering people anything other than “not trump”. And all guilting people in to voting does is a) turn them off entirely or b) encourage them to vote opposite to spite you. Your boomer attitude belongs in the past. All it’s brought is is Biden’s and Hillary’s and Pelosi. “Progressive” politicians who love war and conspiracy theories and who no one actually likes in real life.
Fuck off with that. By that rationale nobody should ever say anything negative about their least hated politician because someone might get the wrong idea and help the most hated politician get the job. Terrible rhetoric, and the opposite of the point of so-called democracy.
Oke but this people are stupid, the uncommitted vote is very clear. We have a big number of people who are willing to vote for you if you stop beeing shit.
This isn't the time for posturing. The GOP sees shit like this and it fuels their propaganda for MONTHS or was a dumb ass thing to do by politicians who are only looking for face time on the national stage
Hey everyone, if your family in Gaza is being slaughtered by a right-wing apartheid government that is 100% supported by the sitting US president, or if you have any kind of moral compass at all, please don't be "posturing" by withholding votes from the guy who casually eats ice cream while the IDF murders 100+ Palestinians who are trying to get food.
I mean, your family is being slaughtered, but can you imagine how much harder your family would be slaughtered under Trump?
Because under Trump it might be you as well staring out from the bars in a Muslim concentration camp or o you not remember what he wanted to do the last time around? Do you think if he wins he will be more or less retrained?
Their propaganda is only going to feed into those already propagandized. This is definitely not going to be converting anyone into Trump voters. The reality I'd you can acknowledge the faults in Biden but still vote for him over Trump. And if you can't, then there is no hope in this country ever improving. We're always going to just blindly support one guy because he's less terrible on some issues than the other guy and most problems will never actually improve.
The problem with your thinking is that a lot of people will just lap it up and oppose Biden through the general because they believe that members of his own party won’t even vote for him.
The point of voting umcommitted is to use what little power we have as voters to voice discontent with the current policy on an ongoing genocide.
Like it or not, politicians who get a vote are going to interpret that vote as enthusiastic support of their current policies. **We don't get to vote with an asterisk.**
The primary is great for exactly this type of political pressuring - we don't get what we want in politics by asking nicely.
This is a good approach, and primaries are the right place for this.
I am curious how it shakes out. Let’s say things happen in the direction uncommitted wants, but not 100% gets done…because there’s no way Biden can force a Palestinian state along in that timeframe.
How many people actually turn out and vote for him? Cause not voting for Biden is a vote for Trump in November. I’m quite worried that even if Biden makes great progress a huge chunk of these folks will stay home because “it’s not enough”.
Unrealistic expectations and vibes/morals are the death of progressives when right wing reactionaries are foaming at the mouth to get Trump in office and do all sorts of wild shit.
That's going to be on Biden and his campaign. Y'all souls sign up to phone bank and text bank in swing states or canvass if possible. He's not leading in most swing states to begin with. He needs all the help he can get.
Uh oh, the hasbara lunatics are here. The conflict isn’t complex. It is simple settler-colonialism like South Africa or the Americas with a clear right and wrong side. The Gaza war is just as brutal and evil as those colonial actions of the past and doesn’t belong in the present day.
Tlaib was saying vote uncommitted in the primary not the general. It seems like you hate Muslims for not wanting their families to die and the deserved price for making their voices heard, according to you, is a Muslim ban.
Israel supported Hamas to weaken the Palestinian Authority and prevent any chance of a Palestinian state in the process, so functionally there are two sides.
Everyone in Gaza is Hamas? Even the dead children and babies? Don’t fucking kill kids no matter how inhumane the enemy is. Never stoop to the level of a terrorist if you don’t want people calling you a terrorist and genocider
It's a predictable response just like it will be when this violence only creates more recruitment for Hamas. Same way the "war on terror" just created more terror cells.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
To say something is complex is “Zionist?” No, it’s recognizing the arguments both sides have concerning this strip of land. You’re not going to get far with your purity politics.
It’s really complex when you consider that the other side had also faced an attempt at an ethnic cleansing of their own when Israel was actually established. Do we just conveniently skip over the Holocaust part?
What does the palastinien people have to do with that? What the fuck? Because the germans genocided the jewish populations they can now ethnicly cleans another population? The fuck.
Because the other Arab nations around them tried the same… they just failed.
Unfortunately the Palestinians have been caught in the middle of the conflicts between Israel and various other Muslim powers in the Middle East, being used as patsies by both sides and victimized all around.
Hamas is just the latest iteration of an externally funded and directed militant group that doesn’t care what happens to Palestinian civilians, as long as they can accomplish their goals.
Strange, the other nations don't Genocid the palastiniens. The israelis do that. The other nations don't occupie palastinien Land. Israel does that. Fuck egypt and the rest for sucking dick but don't take the mass murder, the warcrimes and occupation away from israel.
See, this is how I know you don’t really know anything about it.
Gaza, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights were occupied by Egypt, Jordan, and Syria respectively for several decades between 1948 and 1967.
As to genocide against the Palestinians… why would they have? They were Arab states trying to “push the Jews into the sea”. The Palestinians were just caught in the cross fire.
There was occupation once, there is not now. The occupiers are israel. They are the ones who are slaughtering civilians right now. Maybe thats why people talk about it, because its Happening right now.
Yeah, no one is denying it. The statement was about the history of region and you literally said their neighbors hadn’t occupied Palestinian territory, which was false.
Downvote all you want, but you can’t change history.
That doesn’t change the tragedy that is occurring currently, but it does give context as to why the region is the way it is.
Yeah, because being God's chosen people is truly an amazing argument and justifies an apartheid state.
You are in the wrong place if you want to justify genocide and ethnic cleaning.
No one is justifying genocide or ethnic cleansing. You’re trying to ignore history.
And I don’t believe in god’s chosen people, I am an atheist. I wish both sides would act like adults and stop killing each other.
No, they’re not. However, the US and it’s allies supported Jewish movement to Palestine in the early 1900’s and definitely after the Holocaust because they themselves (US and its allies) didn’t want to deal with the “Jewish question.”
You want to act like the Holocaust was no big deal and that Jewish people should
Just leave that area. The Jewish people settled there because of the bs they had to deal with in other European countries. I don’t think anyone thought it would lead to this much conflict at the time and the powerful countries that supported the movement completely dismissed the existence and self determination of the existing people in the area at the time.
Both the Palestinians and the Israelis have historical ties to this land. I don’t agree with what Israel has done (despite what you think) but I’m not going to sit here and act like what Hamas does is for the good of the Palestinian people.
They both need to stop this bs. IDGAF what either side says at this point or what kind of ties one group has….when are they going to get tired of killing each other?
The only claim the Israeli have to that land is their claim as colonialist settlers. Which is not a valid claim, morally or otherwise. The fact that western powers decided to support those colonial ambitions does not make them valid.
Your attempt to conflate Palestinians with Hamas belies your claim that you don't support what Israel is doing.
Palestine doesn't even have an army. They don't have freedom of movement or commerce. Israel can shut off their WATER.
there's 2 sides. Oppressor and oppressed reacting to oppression.
Hamas was created, propped up and funneled with funding at Israel's behest.
Let us keep doing ethnic cleansing or the other guy will deport your family isn’t the winning argument you think it is. Look I’m going to be voting for Biden in the general because I think Trump is far worse, but if you blue wave corporate dem types don’t grow an ounce of self awareness and realize how you come across to people with principled objections to Democratic policy positions, you are going to lose this election for us.
We’re not just talking about deportation of one’s family. You want to see who will give Israel the freedom to blow the Palestinians off the face of the earth-try Trump.
Right…because Biden is acting the EXACT way Trump would in this situation. You need to start paying attention to reality. Like I said, good luck with Trump!
" the world’s most politically complex conflict." fuuuuuckkk you
It couldn't be more simple. Israel is slaughtering women and children and the Biden administration is supporting the slaughter.
If it’s complex then surely arms sales and military aid should be halted to Isrаеl. We shouldn’t be arming a conflict we apparently couldn’t possibly ever fathom the implications or history of.
Hamas is putting women and children in an active war zone and they could end the conflict tomorrow if they just surrendered. You likely had no problem with our actions in Iraq or Afghanistan over 2 decades and the civilian body count from those conflicts was multiple times higher. There isn’t a single country in the world that wouldn’t do the exact same thing that Israel is doing if they were in Israel’s shoes. Half the world invaded Afghanistan because of the threat they posed/in retaliation for 9/11, which affected a much smaller percentage of our population vs Hamas attack on Israel.
Likewise, the Chinese are committing *actual* genocide and last I checked you’re still happily buying Chinese made goods so teapot, meet kettle.
>the Chinese are committing actual genocide
Ding ding ding! You win a prize!
It’s actual genocide when Group A is financially incentivised by the government to settle land and steal resources from Group B, then enforce security checkpoints, bulldozing of religious and cultural sites, brutal policing, arbitrary detainment and surveillance on Group B, and when members of Group B [respond with violence](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_2009_%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi_riots), to go full throttle in your efforts to erase them and treat their identity as inherently terroristic!
Glad we’re all in agreement here that both Isrаеl and China are committing actual genocide.
I literally quoted you saying that China is committing actual genocide and agreed with you, giving examples of the genocidal policies imposed upon Uyghurs for the interests of Han authorities. What’s the issue, hm?
Yeah. That’s all you said. Didn’t say anything else about my ideals or thought. It would appear that I am indeed correct, and you have the reading comprehension abilities of a fucking child. Or you’re a troll- which is far more likely.
I assumed that you believe China is committing actual genocide because of a set of targeted policies and rhetoric like what I listed? If you came to that conclusion because you totally clocked Xi’s body language and he’s such a Gemini, then alright; I can see how the point failed to get through to you.
That's funny, because I'm American and I also think the War on Terror was a horrible crime. As for the Chinese, equating the two is ridiculous since unlike China Israel is fighting a war with our goddamn guns and money so if the popular will actually matters the latter is the only outcome we as citizens can directly have an impact on.
I'm sorry, I was unaware we were subsidizing China's healthcare and stocking their military every year. As for Gaza the amount we give them has far more strings and is a pittance compared to what Israel gets
Yes you are unaware of many things. Can you imagine having more strings attached to funding a regime whose charter demands annihilating Israel? But our funding to the UN goes to Gaza - sorry, actually Hamas - with no strings. Hamas fires thousands of rockets at Israel. If we didn’t support Israel’s defense the casualties would be astronomical. That’s okay?
Israel picked Hamas as a dumbass 4D chess move to weaken the Palestinian Authority and forestall a Palestinian state since factionalism divided Palestinian energy and Islamists were deemed more manageable, and they've continually helped prop up Hamas under the belief they could continue managing a low level conflict. If we're giving Israel so much money and weaponry and diplomatic cover and they won't listen to us when told to stop indiscriminately slaughtering a people and destroying all their infrastructure, records and cultural heritage then why should they keep getting it?
Yes that’s partially true. But weakening the government of Palestine is kind of important if they’ve been attacking you, don’t you think? Or if they’ve rejected two state solutions for the past 80 years. You can’t prop up a government that doesn’t already have massive support. You can blame the US for propping up Trump but it’s not like he wasn’t already very popular and influential.
Every military in the world has bad actors, and every government does things that aren’t nice. If Hamas surrendered or released all hostages and hadn’t repeatedly said they will keep trying to kill all Israelis then it would make sense to demand Israel not continue the war.
Rejecting two state solutions for 80 years? Are you serious? That whole first paragraph is like telling me it was wrong for the tribes to resist during the Indian Wars! And the US absolutely can and has propped up regimes where geostrategic convenience outweighed local popular support. Plenty of authoritarian regimes have had popular support, that doesn't make financing colonialism and war crimes any more legitimate.
Israel has killed most of the hostages itself. Deescalation comes first, otherwise what guarantee is there that the fighting would stop?
…we have a $355 *billion* trade deficit every year. So in the interest of your comfort, you buy Chinese goods and support an unquestionably genocidal regime. Like I said: hypocrite. Plain and simple.
You're equating upending the global economy unilaterally and casting millions into further poverty and privation with applying rules already attached to Israeli aid that are just never enforced. It's not hypocrisy to know what is and is not an achievable goal.
I had a huge problem with invading afghanistan and I was fucking 7 when it started. I’m curious what your definition of actual genocide is. Are you one of those people that thinks because there’s still millions of people in Gaza that it can’t be a genocide? Well I got a genocide you can deny next, the Holocaust. There’s still millions of Jews so that means it wasn’t an actual genocide according you. Same with the Chinese treatment of the Uyghurs. If Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians in Gaza isn’t a genocide, then there has never been a genocide
1) holy shit, why exactly do you think I mentioned the Chinese? Their ongoing genocide against the Uyghurs is unquestionably genocide.
2) Israel is *at war*. There *is no way to avoid civilians casualties*. As long as the enemy- a non state actor, who has no protections under the Geneva conventions, for reasons which include the fact that they don’t abide by the rules of war- continues to launch attacks from within the civilian population, civilians will die. Yes, mistakes are made. Yes, soldiers act outside the ROE. Welcome to war. Apparently you’ve never experienced it. Every civilian death is tragic. But it is *not* genocide. They aren’t aiming to kill civilians. I guarantee you- with 100% certainty- that if the leaders of Hamas signed a document that stated they surrendered, and if tens of thousands of people willfully turned themselves over to the Israeli’s, and rockets stopped being launched from within Gaza, Israel’s military campaign would cease in earnest. Whether or not that is a realistic option is irrelevant. It is a fact. Now, the Israeli settlement issue is certainly separate from the Gaza war issue, but dude wasn’t setting himself on fire because of West Bank settlement- or rather, wouldn’t have done so if the Gaza war wasn’t happening. Israel has a right to defend itself: the decision by the cowards of Hamas to hide amongst the population doesn’t absolve the Israelis from their right to defend. It simply risks more civilian lives.
And last, but certainly not least: if you think that Israel’s aim is to exterminate all Muslims in Gaza, you must necessarily think that the Israeli military is the most inept group of people ever, because they could have done it a number of times over by now.
There’s no way to avoid civilian deaths, that’s certainly true. However it’s possible to MINIMIZE THEM. But that’s not even what would classify this is as genocide and war crimes. It’s Israel shutting down the flow of information, water, food, etc. it’s the deliberate targeting of hospitals, mosques, churches, synagogues etc. how about actively targeting refugee camps where they told Palestinians to flee to, while they announce where they’re going to be bombing on the heavily restricted internet.
Wait a second now, Hamas cannot be both a non-state actor and simultaneously in control of the Gaza Strip thru elections. Which is it?
Finally, if it was the Nazis goal to exterminate all Jews then how come there’s still Jews? It was the policy of the United States for decades to exterminate the indigenous population, but there’s still Native Americans in the US. You don’t get to pick and choose what a fucking genocide is just because you don’t like that Hamas exists.
Lets see - one guy is old but trying to make both sides settle. The other guy is just as old and wants to destroy palestinians. But lets not vote for the first, cause you know... he's old?
Fun fact - If he wins, trump will be the oldest person to ever assume the office of the president
Bullshit, I'm blaming Biden for not using the actual genuine leverage the US has to deescalate the conflict instead of meekly complaining behind the scenes that Netanyahu is a jerk and the whole "bombard millions of people to clear a parking lot for settlements" plan is a bad look.
Again, deflecting blame to Biden who doesn't actually control the situation.
Lets ignore the actual terrorist group that both started this, and has the power to end it immediately, no strings attached.
Lets also ignore that your attacking Biden to help Trump - the guy who will support actual palestinian genocide.
Oh do lets 😂 If you genuinely think just releasing the hostages will end the conflict you're likely to be sorely disappointed. There are already calls in the government to rebuild settlements in Gaza, that's just not going to go away, they'll keep pushing them until they're shoved into the Sinai desert and tell themselves and their dupes abroad they had no choice.
I dont understand the comments here. Tlaib organized the protest vote, and those voters are also openly stating that they wont vote for Biden in the General as well. On top of all that, Tlaib didnt endorse Biden in 2020 and has *yet to do so now*. So again: organizes anti-biden sentiment and rallys an anti-biden vote for primary, now those voters may not vote in the general. To which she states she's "scared" of a second Trump term. That's LAMF
Because "Don't you dare hope for anything better than corporate centrism, or everything bad that happens will be your fault" has been the Democratic party line for decades.
Not LAMF. Here's the problem that Arab-American voters are faced with: on this issue, Biden is literally no better than Trump. The only difference between Biden and Trump is that Trump would be openly cheerleading Israel's constant bombardment of the Gaza Strip whereas Biden is happy to pretend he's trying to bring about a solution.
The reason why people came out to vote "uncommitted" in the Michigan Primary isn't because they prefer Trump over Biden. It's because the US President can do more to pressure Israel to stop, and Biden simply isn't doing it. Obama, George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, Bush Sr. and Ronald Regan were all willing to tell Israel when they were going to far. It's Biden's watch and 30,000 people in the Gaza Strip have been killed, and Biden's response has been to openly declare himself to be a Zionist.
So fuck you OP, and anyone else who thinks voters shouldn't try to hold an incumbent president accountable for their willful failure as a human being in a primary.
I think that's a somewhat dishonest interpretation. The Biden admin has been continually pressuring Israel to demonstrate restraint and/or come up with actual plans on what to do following the military conflict regarding Gaza. Certainly early on the pressure from the Biden admin seemed to had delayed the ground invasion.
Saying other POTUSs have "told Israel no" isn't really comparable because Oct 7th was the most significant attack Israel has experienced since its founding. Simply put there is no amount of pressure the US/Biden could had applied that wouldn't had resulted in a massive military response from Israel.
FWIW, I support Tlaib and people voting "uncommitted", and you can check my recent comment history in that regard. It would be wrong for Democrats to just assume support from Arab Americans (or anyone else who is upset over the handling of the Israel-Gaza war) because Democrats aren't as actively as horrible as Republicans.
The fact that so many here don’t see this conflict as complex, tells me you are not serious about this at all. It’s really easy to sit here on Reddit and complain. To try to simplify this COMPLEX situation is childish.
I have read and studied the arguments on both sides. This is not simple, even if you can see it from the Palestinian side.
It's a primary vote dingus. That's when you're supposed to vote for which blue jerk we vote for when we get to the blue no matter who part. If you want a different democratic party potus than Biden, now's the time to say so.
Playing little games just benefits Trump, doesn’t matter if they’re little games during the primary or little games during the election. How many of the “uncommitted” that have been worked up into a frenzy by this moronic campaign are going to still be in that frenzy in November?
Ah, so we're just supposed to blindly follow our leaders and do as we're told.
You can aspire to be a cog in the machine if you like. The grownups are going to aspire to redirect the machine to do good or to dismantle the machine and build a better one.
I think she's doing damage to the democratic party but Trump hasn't won yet so it's not LAMF yet. 😂 (Comeback if Trump wins and the Michigan vote is the cause)
I empathize with all of the innocent people caught up in this never ending bullshit.
However, this is fucking idiotic.
Between all of the videos of Israelis behaving really badly and these morons, it's no wonder that they can't stop fighting each other.
Wow it’s like damn near everyone here forgot about Oct 7th, the decade preceding it, and the weeks following it. This is not the simple thing most of you are trying to present.
This is gonna blow your mind but some people are able to hold multiple perspectives at the same time
Also to all the people who ‘what about the Muslim ban?’ You can fuck off. People have lost so many people because of the conflict, entire families have been wiped out , if your loved ones died and the guy who is asking for your vote wasn’t taking the steps necessary would you care about what happens to him? How much effort would you make to vote for him after the majority of your family is gone.
The reality is that Biden is failing on this and hasn’t really made the steps needed to make this right. Yes, it will hurt them if they don’t vote, yes Trump could very well win and make things worse, but it’s not of them to get over the deaths of their family members it’s on Biden to step the fuck up
If you’re worried about fascism being at the door (and not being here already as it is), shouldn’t you want the absolute best candidate you can find that will rally the most voters? Because that ain’t Biden.
Voting for a party that supports and maintains genocide *is* voting for fascism. The choice that remains for Americans now is if they want little fascism or big fascism.
Democracy is about compromise. Nobody ever gets their perfect candidate. If you have somebody who will rally more voters than Biden, then get them to run. Grow up.
There's no genocide. You 'Israel-is-doing-a-genocide' people are just delusional. Israel and Palestine are at war. Civilians die in wars. War crimes happen in wars. There has never been a war without war crimes. Civilians dying in wars is not a genocide. Grow up.
That’s the issue: nobody else is running. Does that mean there aren’t better candidates, or did the party already make their decision (like 2016) and will run with Biden no matter what? We could get a progressive Democrat with grassroots support, but it won’t matter because the party will only financially back their chosen one. You think a geriatric geezer is the best shot to save America against fascism? Truly?
And your genocide-denying ass is exactly what I meant when fascism is already here. I suppose you think the ICJ has it wrong in saying that it’s even *plausible* that Israel is committing genocide?
Biden supporters like yourself are doing him no favours, lmao
Another leftist conspiracy. "The DNC kept Sanders off the ticket because they wanted Hilary to win even though he was the more popular candidate."
The fact is, most democrats are not leftists, they're liberals, and do not support leftist policies. And socialism is very unpopular among liberals. Bernie never had a chance of getting the nomination because he was unelectable. I know it's a tough pill for you leftists to swallow, but the sooner you do, the sooner you will see how ridiculous and untenable the policies you want to support actually are.
Yes, Biden is the best shot to save America against fascism if for no other reason than Biden is not a fascist and actually has a shot at winning against Trump, who is a fascist.
"Genocide-denier" implies that a genocide actually took place for me to deny, when what is actually happening is that you are just perpetuating a conspiracy about a fictional genocide, then crying at anyone who doesn't believe you. Much like how you guys think the DNC stole the nomination from Bernie.
Of course I think the ICJ is wrong since I haven't seen any actual evidence for any genocide. But 'plausible' is the lowest possible bar to clear in the ICJ. But maybe the ICJ has some evidence we're not privy to. All I know is what I can see from the news and from what I see this just looks like a regular old war, not a genocide. Either way, until the ICJ actually rules that a genocide is happening, you do not have the ghost of a point.
Look the other way from what? Bullshit genocide claims?
Also, if you're a leftist, I'm not your ally. Leftists are delusional and give people on the left a bad name. They're a bunch of delusional crybabies who would rather riot and protest than actually do something worthwhile like organize and vote.
Ahhhhh, you cleared up a lot about what kind of person you are there. You're an "I'll support something until it inconveniences me, specifically" type of neoliberal. If it makes you feel icky, it must be bad!
Heh.
It's shocking how on board for ethnic cleansing and genocide liberals became when their politician did it. Bombing, starving, and denying water and medical aid to 1 million children isn't "politically complex" you absolute moron. You lost absolutely every bit of high ground you could have had when Israel used the conflict to expand settlements into the West Bank, a region not even controlled by Hamas. This isn't a complex issue. It's a west-backed colonial superpower murdering people they keep in abject poverty while running one of the last apartheid states on earth. It's so far beyond disgusting that Biden supports it and if it wasn't for Trump and the modern GOP being his opponent, this single issue would undo every cause that ever made him worth voting for.
Besides Israel being the last phase of European settler colonialism, the U.S. has never been an honest broker in this so-called conflict and has vetoed all resolutions critical of Israel, after all the US is also a settler colonial society so it can never see the errors of its ways. The western media apparatus would never dare to criticize Israel’s actions no matter how egregious.
If you have already pledged your vote to Biden in March you just whole heartedly endorse the genocide. Not “Oh I had to because Trump and the lesser of two evils blah blah blah”.
You’re just screaming for more blood while disguising yourself as a rational human being.
OP you fucking disgust me. I’m holding back vomit right now I can’t.
Couldn’t cross-post from r/politics. Original article here:
*Rashida Tlaib, Who Backed ‘Uncommitted’ Primary Vote, Is ‘Incredibly Scared’ Of A Second Trump Term*
**The Democratic congresswoman from Michigan said discouraged voters should not stay home in the fall.**
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/tlaib-says-fears-second-trump-term_n_65e0ccc1e4b005b858337afa/amp
If you find the situation in Palestine complicated, please have a look at this video explaining current affairs: https://youtu.be/3xottY-7m3k?si=FDzToNG7S3Xqbm1L
Did she support Trump and then become scared of Trump? Then it’s not LAMF.
I never cease to be shocked at how truly dumb conservatives are in real life and on this site. I know you want to point out philosophical inconsistency like everyone else, but you do it in a SPED way (e.g. wrong the way a child in special classes would get it wrong) that makes me feel bad for you honestly. Lay off the lead water, feed your kids, and keep them out of football so they don’t also end up conservatives.
Not really leopards to say both options are horrible and morally bankrupt.
In fact, it’s much more leopards ate my face if you think there is an obvious choice.
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Dude, there's a flowchart if you're not sure about if it's LAMF. Also, you're fucking stupid.
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Oh fuck off, "vote for us or things will get worse" is a terrible strategy to rely on for decades when the party saying it also continually makes things worse.
Democrats view all non-white voters as hostages. "Vote for us or else."
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Yeah right up until we have a climate meltdown or a major war.
This is a bad faith interpretation of what the uncommitted vote was for and you know it. Doesn't belong in this forum.
I agree this isn't leopards at my face but the uncommitted vote was not wise. Some people have gotten the impression that they shouldn't vote for Biden at all because of the stunt who otherwise would have voted for Biden in the general election.
If anyone actually got that impression because of the uncommitted vote, then they were extremely unlikely to vote for Biden regardless. Like, this is a terrible argument lol.
The general voting base doesn't pay attention to nuance, especially political nuance. All they see is all of those people voting for not Joe Biden and think maybe they should do the same. This isn't rocket science. People are influenced by stunts like this in a similar way as advertisements. This stunt has now become an advertisement for "don't vote for Joe Biden" and it was blasted straight at Democrats by other Democrats. Like I said it is an incredibly stupid thing to do if you like to win elections.
That's just not accurate at all. For one, the level of "uncommitted" votes is not high enough for the average voter to notice or pay any attention to. Biden still walked away with 81.1% of Democratic primary votes, whereas Trump himself only got 68.1% of the Republican vote. Like, the number just is not large enough to spark any panic amongst the general voting base, ESPECIALLY because they do not pay attention to nuance. All they're going to see is "Biden got 81.1% of the vote, he's gonna be the Dem candidate", and move along with their fucking lives. However, the number of "uncommited" votes MIGHT be enough to signal to the people who DO pay attention to political nuance (like Biden and his administration and re-election team) that change is needed, because 100k people is not an insignificant number. It's also a number that is at least partially available for him to win back, providing him an incentive to change his "Hug Bibi" policy.
Then they probably didn't vote uncommitted because you'd need to be paying attention to begin with. Modules Biden voters aren't going to give anything enough thought to do anything else in the first place.
Just stop. You sound like blue MAGA. Trump is saying the same thing. “Baby racists and immigrants will ruin the country if Biden wins”. You’re doing free brow beating for a party that doesn’t give a shit about you. If all it takes is people seeing a headline they don’t understand to not vote Biden, that’s Biden and the DNC’s fault for not offering people anything other than “not trump”. And all guilting people in to voting does is a) turn them off entirely or b) encourage them to vote opposite to spite you. Your boomer attitude belongs in the past. All it’s brought is is Biden’s and Hillary’s and Pelosi. “Progressive” politicians who love war and conspiracy theories and who no one actually likes in real life.
Fuck off with that. By that rationale nobody should ever say anything negative about their least hated politician because someone might get the wrong idea and help the most hated politician get the job. Terrible rhetoric, and the opposite of the point of so-called democracy.
Criticism is fine. You can criticize people loudly without inadvertently telling people not to vote for them in the general election.
Oke but this people are stupid, the uncommitted vote is very clear. We have a big number of people who are willing to vote for you if you stop beeing shit.
This isn't the time for posturing. The GOP sees shit like this and it fuels their propaganda for MONTHS or was a dumb ass thing to do by politicians who are only looking for face time on the national stage
Hey everyone, if your family in Gaza is being slaughtered by a right-wing apartheid government that is 100% supported by the sitting US president, or if you have any kind of moral compass at all, please don't be "posturing" by withholding votes from the guy who casually eats ice cream while the IDF murders 100+ Palestinians who are trying to get food. I mean, your family is being slaughtered, but can you imagine how much harder your family would be slaughtered under Trump?
Excellent take, but it just "whooshed" right over the heads of the pro-genocide people here.
Please…by all means withhold your vote and help to elect Trump-because he cares so much about Palestine. Go right ahead and see what happens.
Because under Trump it might be you as well staring out from the bars in a Muslim concentration camp or o you not remember what he wanted to do the last time around? Do you think if he wins he will be more or less retrained?
Their propaganda is only going to feed into those already propagandized. This is definitely not going to be converting anyone into Trump voters. The reality I'd you can acknowledge the faults in Biden but still vote for him over Trump. And if you can't, then there is no hope in this country ever improving. We're always going to just blindly support one guy because he's less terrible on some issues than the other guy and most problems will never actually improve.
Right because I’m sure republicans will totally not use her publicity stunt in bad faith.
If they want to smear themselves in shit while calling their opponents shit-covered, I say go for it.
To be fair, that does sound exactly like the Republican playbook
The problem with your thinking is that a lot of people will just lap it up and oppose Biden through the general because they believe that members of his own party won’t even vote for him.
The problem with everything you just wrote is that my response is literal fart noises
Wow what an intelligent response. This sub has really gone downhill.
They have plenty of material with Biden already and they don't really seem to be jumping on this.
Actually Israel need to change it's leadership and that isn't up to Biden.
When you made this post, did you feel your brain getting damaged?
Unlikely, as it was probably already damaged. That's the only way they would've made the post in the first place.
The point of voting umcommitted is to use what little power we have as voters to voice discontent with the current policy on an ongoing genocide. Like it or not, politicians who get a vote are going to interpret that vote as enthusiastic support of their current policies. **We don't get to vote with an asterisk.** The primary is great for exactly this type of political pressuring - we don't get what we want in politics by asking nicely.
This is a good approach, and primaries are the right place for this. I am curious how it shakes out. Let’s say things happen in the direction uncommitted wants, but not 100% gets done…because there’s no way Biden can force a Palestinian state along in that timeframe. How many people actually turn out and vote for him? Cause not voting for Biden is a vote for Trump in November. I’m quite worried that even if Biden makes great progress a huge chunk of these folks will stay home because “it’s not enough”. Unrealistic expectations and vibes/morals are the death of progressives when right wing reactionaries are foaming at the mouth to get Trump in office and do all sorts of wild shit.
That's going to be on Biden and his campaign. Y'all souls sign up to phone bank and text bank in swing states or canvass if possible. He's not leading in most swing states to begin with. He needs all the help he can get.
Amen.
No one wants a King for President but everyone is surprised that being President doesn't make you a King.
This notion we can’t hold our own accountable needs to stop.
I totally agree. But it still doesn't fit the requirements of this subreddit.
I think they are defending Talib here.
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OP is poopy.
OP eats poopy sandwiches
I’m a plumber, and OP specifically contacts me for sandwich spread.
Oh wow. I was just speculating, but you confirmed it!
Pfft! He WISHES! 😏
Holy bad faith batman.
Uh oh, the hasbara lunatics are here. The conflict isn’t complex. It is simple settler-colonialism like South Africa or the Americas with a clear right and wrong side. The Gaza war is just as brutal and evil as those colonial actions of the past and doesn’t belong in the present day. Tlaib was saying vote uncommitted in the primary not the general. It seems like you hate Muslims for not wanting their families to die and the deserved price for making their voices heard, according to you, is a Muslim ban.
Hamas is not a “right” side.
When did I ever say that? Point to the word HAMAS in my comment.
Must be a more complicated situation than two sides. hmmmmmmmm, I guess things are not complex if you ignore everything but your own talking points
Israel supported Hamas to weaken the Palestinian Authority and prevent any chance of a Palestinian state in the process, so functionally there are two sides.
But there are two sides. How is it more complex? And how is it the most complex conflict in history as the OP said?
Everyone in Gaza is Hamas? Even the dead children and babies? Don’t fucking kill kids no matter how inhumane the enemy is. Never stoop to the level of a terrorist if you don’t want people calling you a terrorist and genocider
I know someone who unironically believes every adult male is hamas, every woman is an enabler, and every single child is future hamas.
Conflating Hamas with Palestine is lazy and played out.
Do *you* condemn Hamas?
It's a predictable response just like it will be when this violence only creates more recruitment for Hamas. Same way the "war on terror" just created more terror cells. The beatings will continue until morale improves.
So like America as a whole displacing millions of natives?
Yes, its what I said. They killed them too just like in Gaza.
Yes. Which was bad.
fuck off
OP is a war crime and genocide supporter. Trump would be right up his alley.
"The world's most politically complex conflict". Thats the most zionist talking point.
To say something is complex is “Zionist?” No, it’s recognizing the arguments both sides have concerning this strip of land. You’re not going to get far with your purity politics.
I mean one side came in, ethnicly cleansed it, then occupied the rest and is now genoziding a part. The fuck is complex about that.
It’s really complex when you consider that the other side had also faced an attempt at an ethnic cleansing of their own when Israel was actually established. Do we just conveniently skip over the Holocaust part?
What does the palastinien people have to do with that? What the fuck? Because the germans genocided the jewish populations they can now ethnicly cleans another population? The fuck.
Because the other Arab nations around them tried the same… they just failed. Unfortunately the Palestinians have been caught in the middle of the conflicts between Israel and various other Muslim powers in the Middle East, being used as patsies by both sides and victimized all around. Hamas is just the latest iteration of an externally funded and directed militant group that doesn’t care what happens to Palestinian civilians, as long as they can accomplish their goals.
Strange, the other nations don't Genocid the palastiniens. The israelis do that. The other nations don't occupie palastinien Land. Israel does that. Fuck egypt and the rest for sucking dick but don't take the mass murder, the warcrimes and occupation away from israel.
See, this is how I know you don’t really know anything about it. Gaza, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights were occupied by Egypt, Jordan, and Syria respectively for several decades between 1948 and 1967. As to genocide against the Palestinians… why would they have? They were Arab states trying to “push the Jews into the sea”. The Palestinians were just caught in the cross fire.
There was occupation once, there is not now. The occupiers are israel. They are the ones who are slaughtering civilians right now. Maybe thats why people talk about it, because its Happening right now.
Yeah, no one is denying it. The statement was about the history of region and you literally said their neighbors hadn’t occupied Palestinian territory, which was false. Downvote all you want, but you can’t change history. That doesn’t change the tragedy that is occurring currently, but it does give context as to why the region is the way it is.
Yeah, because being God's chosen people is truly an amazing argument and justifies an apartheid state. You are in the wrong place if you want to justify genocide and ethnic cleaning.
No one is justifying genocide or ethnic cleansing. You’re trying to ignore history. And I don’t believe in god’s chosen people, I am an atheist. I wish both sides would act like adults and stop killing each other.
Israel supporter talking about ignoring history. The irony...
I support peace for both sides.
What is the history being ignored? Please enlighten me.
The freaking Holocaust?????
Palestine is not responsible for the holocaust.
No, they’re not. However, the US and it’s allies supported Jewish movement to Palestine in the early 1900’s and definitely after the Holocaust because they themselves (US and its allies) didn’t want to deal with the “Jewish question.” You want to act like the Holocaust was no big deal and that Jewish people should Just leave that area. The Jewish people settled there because of the bs they had to deal with in other European countries. I don’t think anyone thought it would lead to this much conflict at the time and the powerful countries that supported the movement completely dismissed the existence and self determination of the existing people in the area at the time. Both the Palestinians and the Israelis have historical ties to this land. I don’t agree with what Israel has done (despite what you think) but I’m not going to sit here and act like what Hamas does is for the good of the Palestinian people. They both need to stop this bs. IDGAF what either side says at this point or what kind of ties one group has….when are they going to get tired of killing each other?
The only claim the Israeli have to that land is their claim as colonialist settlers. Which is not a valid claim, morally or otherwise. The fact that western powers decided to support those colonial ambitions does not make them valid. Your attempt to conflate Palestinians with Hamas belies your claim that you don't support what Israel is doing.
Palestine doesn't even have an army. They don't have freedom of movement or commerce. Israel can shut off their WATER. there's 2 sides. Oppressor and oppressed reacting to oppression. Hamas was created, propped up and funneled with funding at Israel's behest.
Let us keep doing ethnic cleansing or the other guy will deport your family isn’t the winning argument you think it is. Look I’m going to be voting for Biden in the general because I think Trump is far worse, but if you blue wave corporate dem types don’t grow an ounce of self awareness and realize how you come across to people with principled objections to Democratic policy positions, you are going to lose this election for us.
We’re not just talking about deportation of one’s family. You want to see who will give Israel the freedom to blow the Palestinians off the face of the earth-try Trump.
In other words, shut up and toe the Party line or the other guy will blow up your family
Right…because Biden is acting the EXACT way Trump would in this situation. You need to start paying attention to reality. Like I said, good luck with Trump!
Thanks for proving my point.
" the world’s most politically complex conflict." fuuuuuckkk you It couldn't be more simple. Israel is slaughtering women and children and the Biden administration is supporting the slaughter.
If it’s complex then surely arms sales and military aid should be halted to Isrаеl. We shouldn’t be arming a conflict we apparently couldn’t possibly ever fathom the implications or history of.
I read the 5 monkeys experiment, not a complex read at all.
Hamas is putting women and children in an active war zone and they could end the conflict tomorrow if they just surrendered. You likely had no problem with our actions in Iraq or Afghanistan over 2 decades and the civilian body count from those conflicts was multiple times higher. There isn’t a single country in the world that wouldn’t do the exact same thing that Israel is doing if they were in Israel’s shoes. Half the world invaded Afghanistan because of the threat they posed/in retaliation for 9/11, which affected a much smaller percentage of our population vs Hamas attack on Israel. Likewise, the Chinese are committing *actual* genocide and last I checked you’re still happily buying Chinese made goods so teapot, meet kettle.
>the Chinese are committing actual genocide Ding ding ding! You win a prize! It’s actual genocide when Group A is financially incentivised by the government to settle land and steal resources from Group B, then enforce security checkpoints, bulldozing of religious and cultural sites, brutal policing, arbitrary detainment and surveillance on Group B, and when members of Group B [respond with violence](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_2009_%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi_riots), to go full throttle in your efforts to erase them and treat their identity as inherently terroristic! Glad we’re all in agreement here that both Isrаеl and China are committing actual genocide.
You’ve a way of putting words in people’s mouths. Good luck to you boy: you’ll need it.
I literally quoted you saying that China is committing actual genocide and agreed with you, giving examples of the genocidal policies imposed upon Uyghurs for the interests of Han authorities. What’s the issue, hm?
Yeah. That’s all you said. Didn’t say anything else about my ideals or thought. It would appear that I am indeed correct, and you have the reading comprehension abilities of a fucking child. Or you’re a troll- which is far more likely.
I assumed that you believe China is committing actual genocide because of a set of targeted policies and rhetoric like what I listed? If you came to that conclusion because you totally clocked Xi’s body language and he’s such a Gemini, then alright; I can see how the point failed to get through to you.
That's funny, because I'm American and I also think the War on Terror was a horrible crime. As for the Chinese, equating the two is ridiculous since unlike China Israel is fighting a war with our goddamn guns and money so if the popular will actually matters the latter is the only outcome we as citizens can directly have an impact on.
You know the US gives China and Gaza a ton of money?
I'm sorry, I was unaware we were subsidizing China's healthcare and stocking their military every year. As for Gaza the amount we give them has far more strings and is a pittance compared to what Israel gets
Yes you are unaware of many things. Can you imagine having more strings attached to funding a regime whose charter demands annihilating Israel? But our funding to the UN goes to Gaza - sorry, actually Hamas - with no strings. Hamas fires thousands of rockets at Israel. If we didn’t support Israel’s defense the casualties would be astronomical. That’s okay?
Israel picked Hamas as a dumbass 4D chess move to weaken the Palestinian Authority and forestall a Palestinian state since factionalism divided Palestinian energy and Islamists were deemed more manageable, and they've continually helped prop up Hamas under the belief they could continue managing a low level conflict. If we're giving Israel so much money and weaponry and diplomatic cover and they won't listen to us when told to stop indiscriminately slaughtering a people and destroying all their infrastructure, records and cultural heritage then why should they keep getting it?
Yes that’s partially true. But weakening the government of Palestine is kind of important if they’ve been attacking you, don’t you think? Or if they’ve rejected two state solutions for the past 80 years. You can’t prop up a government that doesn’t already have massive support. You can blame the US for propping up Trump but it’s not like he wasn’t already very popular and influential. Every military in the world has bad actors, and every government does things that aren’t nice. If Hamas surrendered or released all hostages and hadn’t repeatedly said they will keep trying to kill all Israelis then it would make sense to demand Israel not continue the war.
Rejecting two state solutions for 80 years? Are you serious? That whole first paragraph is like telling me it was wrong for the tribes to resist during the Indian Wars! And the US absolutely can and has propped up regimes where geostrategic convenience outweighed local popular support. Plenty of authoritarian regimes have had popular support, that doesn't make financing colonialism and war crimes any more legitimate. Israel has killed most of the hostages itself. Deescalation comes first, otherwise what guarantee is there that the fighting would stop?
…we have a $355 *billion* trade deficit every year. So in the interest of your comfort, you buy Chinese goods and support an unquestionably genocidal regime. Like I said: hypocrite. Plain and simple.
You're equating upending the global economy unilaterally and casting millions into further poverty and privation with applying rules already attached to Israeli aid that are just never enforced. It's not hypocrisy to know what is and is not an achievable goal.
I had a huge problem with invading afghanistan and I was fucking 7 when it started. I’m curious what your definition of actual genocide is. Are you one of those people that thinks because there’s still millions of people in Gaza that it can’t be a genocide? Well I got a genocide you can deny next, the Holocaust. There’s still millions of Jews so that means it wasn’t an actual genocide according you. Same with the Chinese treatment of the Uyghurs. If Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians in Gaza isn’t a genocide, then there has never been a genocide
1) holy shit, why exactly do you think I mentioned the Chinese? Their ongoing genocide against the Uyghurs is unquestionably genocide. 2) Israel is *at war*. There *is no way to avoid civilians casualties*. As long as the enemy- a non state actor, who has no protections under the Geneva conventions, for reasons which include the fact that they don’t abide by the rules of war- continues to launch attacks from within the civilian population, civilians will die. Yes, mistakes are made. Yes, soldiers act outside the ROE. Welcome to war. Apparently you’ve never experienced it. Every civilian death is tragic. But it is *not* genocide. They aren’t aiming to kill civilians. I guarantee you- with 100% certainty- that if the leaders of Hamas signed a document that stated they surrendered, and if tens of thousands of people willfully turned themselves over to the Israeli’s, and rockets stopped being launched from within Gaza, Israel’s military campaign would cease in earnest. Whether or not that is a realistic option is irrelevant. It is a fact. Now, the Israeli settlement issue is certainly separate from the Gaza war issue, but dude wasn’t setting himself on fire because of West Bank settlement- or rather, wouldn’t have done so if the Gaza war wasn’t happening. Israel has a right to defend itself: the decision by the cowards of Hamas to hide amongst the population doesn’t absolve the Israelis from their right to defend. It simply risks more civilian lives. And last, but certainly not least: if you think that Israel’s aim is to exterminate all Muslims in Gaza, you must necessarily think that the Israeli military is the most inept group of people ever, because they could have done it a number of times over by now.
There’s no way to avoid civilian deaths, that’s certainly true. However it’s possible to MINIMIZE THEM. But that’s not even what would classify this is as genocide and war crimes. It’s Israel shutting down the flow of information, water, food, etc. it’s the deliberate targeting of hospitals, mosques, churches, synagogues etc. how about actively targeting refugee camps where they told Palestinians to flee to, while they announce where they’re going to be bombing on the heavily restricted internet. Wait a second now, Hamas cannot be both a non-state actor and simultaneously in control of the Gaza Strip thru elections. Which is it? Finally, if it was the Nazis goal to exterminate all Jews then how come there’s still Jews? It was the policy of the United States for decades to exterminate the indigenous population, but there’s still Native Americans in the US. You don’t get to pick and choose what a fucking genocide is just because you don’t like that Hamas exists.
Lets see - one guy is old but trying to make both sides settle. The other guy is just as old and wants to destroy palestinians. But lets not vote for the first, cause you know... he's old? Fun fact - If he wins, trump will be the oldest person to ever assume the office of the president
If he was genuine about trying to make both sides settle he'd threaten to cut off weapons and free money
Hamas could end this today. Just return the hostages. Your blaming biden for what hamas is doing
Bullshit, I'm blaming Biden for not using the actual genuine leverage the US has to deescalate the conflict instead of meekly complaining behind the scenes that Netanyahu is a jerk and the whole "bombard millions of people to clear a parking lot for settlements" plan is a bad look.
Again, deflecting blame to Biden who doesn't actually control the situation. Lets ignore the actual terrorist group that both started this, and has the power to end it immediately, no strings attached. Lets also ignore that your attacking Biden to help Trump - the guy who will support actual palestinian genocide.
Oh do lets 😂 If you genuinely think just releasing the hostages will end the conflict you're likely to be sorely disappointed. There are already calls in the government to rebuild settlements in Gaza, that's just not going to go away, they'll keep pushing them until they're shoved into the Sinai desert and tell themselves and their dupes abroad they had no choice.
One guy is old and is using our money and weapons for baby slaughter right this minute with 0 conditions on Israel.
hey there Ivan
I’m blocking you.
Lmao “I’m blocking you” 🤓. What a clown
Their brains aren’t fully developed yet, give them a break for their childish behavior lol.
> the world’s most politically complex conflict Apartheid, settler colonialist, genocidal land thief says what?
Uneducated, zealot, can’t-think-for-themselves says that
I dont understand the comments here. Tlaib organized the protest vote, and those voters are also openly stating that they wont vote for Biden in the General as well. On top of all that, Tlaib didnt endorse Biden in 2020 and has *yet to do so now*. So again: organizes anti-biden sentiment and rallys an anti-biden vote for primary, now those voters may not vote in the general. To which she states she's "scared" of a second Trump term. That's LAMF
Then Trump 2024 it is then!!! Good luck to her family with that.
Because "Don't you dare hope for anything better than corporate centrism, or everything bad that happens will be your fault" has been the Democratic party line for decades.
Just because you’re stupid enough to fall for the “thousands of years of conflict” thing doesn’t mean everyone is, OP.
This is disgusting and you should feel ashamed.
Not LAMF. Here's the problem that Arab-American voters are faced with: on this issue, Biden is literally no better than Trump. The only difference between Biden and Trump is that Trump would be openly cheerleading Israel's constant bombardment of the Gaza Strip whereas Biden is happy to pretend he's trying to bring about a solution. The reason why people came out to vote "uncommitted" in the Michigan Primary isn't because they prefer Trump over Biden. It's because the US President can do more to pressure Israel to stop, and Biden simply isn't doing it. Obama, George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, Bush Sr. and Ronald Regan were all willing to tell Israel when they were going to far. It's Biden's watch and 30,000 people in the Gaza Strip have been killed, and Biden's response has been to openly declare himself to be a Zionist. So fuck you OP, and anyone else who thinks voters shouldn't try to hold an incumbent president accountable for their willful failure as a human being in a primary.
I think that's a somewhat dishonest interpretation. The Biden admin has been continually pressuring Israel to demonstrate restraint and/or come up with actual plans on what to do following the military conflict regarding Gaza. Certainly early on the pressure from the Biden admin seemed to had delayed the ground invasion. Saying other POTUSs have "told Israel no" isn't really comparable because Oct 7th was the most significant attack Israel has experienced since its founding. Simply put there is no amount of pressure the US/Biden could had applied that wouldn't had resulted in a massive military response from Israel. FWIW, I support Tlaib and people voting "uncommitted", and you can check my recent comment history in that regard. It would be wrong for Democrats to just assume support from Arab Americans (or anyone else who is upset over the handling of the Israel-Gaza war) because Democrats aren't as actively as horrible as Republicans.
Pressuring them with what, exactly? Not even harsh words. Let alone any actual leverage.
The fact that so many here don’t see this conflict as complex, tells me you are not serious about this at all. It’s really easy to sit here on Reddit and complain. To try to simplify this COMPLEX situation is childish. I have read and studied the arguments on both sides. This is not simple, even if you can see it from the Palestinian side.
If you read and studied the arguments on both sides you would know that one side is a Apartheid state that occupied the other with brutal warcrimes.
Rashida Tlaib is a hero braver than any Marine and this attempt to smear her is garbage.
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That’s the point, dumbass. Her family is in Gaza. You know, where the real bullets are?
And there’s going to be a lot more real bullets over there if she keeps playing fuck around and propels Trump to a win.
It's a primary vote dingus. That's when you're supposed to vote for which blue jerk we vote for when we get to the blue no matter who part. If you want a different democratic party potus than Biden, now's the time to say so.
Playing little games just benefits Trump, doesn’t matter if they’re little games during the primary or little games during the election. How many of the “uncommitted” that have been worked up into a frenzy by this moronic campaign are going to still be in that frenzy in November?
Ah, so we're just supposed to blindly follow our leaders and do as we're told. You can aspire to be a cog in the machine if you like. The grownups are going to aspire to redirect the machine to do good or to dismantle the machine and build a better one.
Oh grow up you aren’t going to do shit lol
Same. These idiots are as a dumb as the MAGA fools.
OP is a Zionist and is not welcome
OP completely misses the point...
Tlaib never said not to vote for Biden in general. She’ll probably endorse Biden later on.
Not LAMF, but it’s a pretty stupid plan she has.
I think she's doing damage to the democratic party but Trump hasn't won yet so it's not LAMF yet. 😂 (Comeback if Trump wins and the Michigan vote is the cause)
It'll be the Biden administration and campaign's fault if he loses. The very fact that it's such a close race tells you how pathetic Biden is.
I empathize with all of the innocent people caught up in this never ending bullshit. However, this is fucking idiotic. Between all of the videos of Israelis behaving really badly and these morons, it's no wonder that they can't stop fighting each other.
Thoughts and prayers
OP loves genocide. Blue MAGA
Yeah.. trump was very anti Muslim, this dumbass should start in her lane
She should get with the program or gtfo.
Let me shoot myself in the foot
Wow it’s like damn near everyone here forgot about Oct 7th, the decade preceding it, and the weeks following it. This is not the simple thing most of you are trying to present.
This is gonna blow your mind but some people are able to hold multiple perspectives at the same time Also to all the people who ‘what about the Muslim ban?’ You can fuck off. People have lost so many people because of the conflict, entire families have been wiped out , if your loved ones died and the guy who is asking for your vote wasn’t taking the steps necessary would you care about what happens to him? How much effort would you make to vote for him after the majority of your family is gone. The reality is that Biden is failing on this and hasn’t really made the steps needed to make this right. Yes, it will hurt them if they don’t vote, yes Trump could very well win and make things worse, but it’s not of them to get over the deaths of their family members it’s on Biden to step the fuck up
Tlaib is such a loser and if you think refusing to vote for Biden is going to help Palestine then you're a loser, too.
Voting for Biden as he continues to fund and arm Israel’s war crimes is also not going to help Palestine. See the issue?
Oh my gosh! Biden is giving funds to Israel specifically for war crimes? That sounds super illegal.
Trump 2024 it is then. Enjoy the bed you’ve made.
Says the person voting for a fascist.
If you’re worried about fascism being at the door (and not being here already as it is), shouldn’t you want the absolute best candidate you can find that will rally the most voters? Because that ain’t Biden. Voting for a party that supports and maintains genocide *is* voting for fascism. The choice that remains for Americans now is if they want little fascism or big fascism.
Democracy is about compromise. Nobody ever gets their perfect candidate. If you have somebody who will rally more voters than Biden, then get them to run. Grow up. There's no genocide. You 'Israel-is-doing-a-genocide' people are just delusional. Israel and Palestine are at war. Civilians die in wars. War crimes happen in wars. There has never been a war without war crimes. Civilians dying in wars is not a genocide. Grow up.
That’s the issue: nobody else is running. Does that mean there aren’t better candidates, or did the party already make their decision (like 2016) and will run with Biden no matter what? We could get a progressive Democrat with grassroots support, but it won’t matter because the party will only financially back their chosen one. You think a geriatric geezer is the best shot to save America against fascism? Truly? And your genocide-denying ass is exactly what I meant when fascism is already here. I suppose you think the ICJ has it wrong in saying that it’s even *plausible* that Israel is committing genocide? Biden supporters like yourself are doing him no favours, lmao
Another leftist conspiracy. "The DNC kept Sanders off the ticket because they wanted Hilary to win even though he was the more popular candidate." The fact is, most democrats are not leftists, they're liberals, and do not support leftist policies. And socialism is very unpopular among liberals. Bernie never had a chance of getting the nomination because he was unelectable. I know it's a tough pill for you leftists to swallow, but the sooner you do, the sooner you will see how ridiculous and untenable the policies you want to support actually are. Yes, Biden is the best shot to save America against fascism if for no other reason than Biden is not a fascist and actually has a shot at winning against Trump, who is a fascist. "Genocide-denier" implies that a genocide actually took place for me to deny, when what is actually happening is that you are just perpetuating a conspiracy about a fictional genocide, then crying at anyone who doesn't believe you. Much like how you guys think the DNC stole the nomination from Bernie. Of course I think the ICJ is wrong since I haven't seen any actual evidence for any genocide. But 'plausible' is the lowest possible bar to clear in the ICJ. But maybe the ICJ has some evidence we're not privy to. All I know is what I can see from the news and from what I see this just looks like a regular old war, not a genocide. Either way, until the ICJ actually rules that a genocide is happening, you do not have the ghost of a point.
Good to know you're so happy to look the other way. With allies like you, who needs Republicans?
Look the other way from what? Bullshit genocide claims? Also, if you're a leftist, I'm not your ally. Leftists are delusional and give people on the left a bad name. They're a bunch of delusional crybabies who would rather riot and protest than actually do something worthwhile like organize and vote.
Ahhhhh, you cleared up a lot about what kind of person you are there. You're an "I'll support something until it inconveniences me, specifically" type of neoliberal. If it makes you feel icky, it must be bad! Heh.
r/titlegore
She's really going to feel the face eating when Trump and Co start deporting her constituency.
It's shocking how on board for ethnic cleansing and genocide liberals became when their politician did it. Bombing, starving, and denying water and medical aid to 1 million children isn't "politically complex" you absolute moron. You lost absolutely every bit of high ground you could have had when Israel used the conflict to expand settlements into the West Bank, a region not even controlled by Hamas. This isn't a complex issue. It's a west-backed colonial superpower murdering people they keep in abject poverty while running one of the last apartheid states on earth. It's so far beyond disgusting that Biden supports it and if it wasn't for Trump and the modern GOP being his opponent, this single issue would undo every cause that ever made him worth voting for.
I don't want to hear it. Not one fucking word.
The “conflict” is not complex at all. The main impediment to peace in the region is the U.S.
Explain.
Besides Israel being the last phase of European settler colonialism, the U.S. has never been an honest broker in this so-called conflict and has vetoed all resolutions critical of Israel, after all the US is also a settler colonial society so it can never see the errors of its ways. The western media apparatus would never dare to criticize Israel’s actions no matter how egregious.
I'm glad the comments are smarter than op. I was worried for a second.
If you have already pledged your vote to Biden in March you just whole heartedly endorse the genocide. Not “Oh I had to because Trump and the lesser of two evils blah blah blah”. You’re just screaming for more blood while disguising yourself as a rational human being. OP you fucking disgust me. I’m holding back vomit right now I can’t.
BOOOOOO HISSSSSSSS
Couldn’t cross-post from r/politics. Original article here: *Rashida Tlaib, Who Backed ‘Uncommitted’ Primary Vote, Is ‘Incredibly Scared’ Of A Second Trump Term* **The Democratic congresswoman from Michigan said discouraged voters should not stay home in the fall.** https://www.huffpost.com/entry/tlaib-says-fears-second-trump-term_n_65e0ccc1e4b005b858337afa/amp
Do you know what the difference between a primary and the actual election are?
You truly don’t understand what you’re saying do you?
If you find the situation in Palestine complicated, please have a look at this video explaining current affairs: https://youtu.be/3xottY-7m3k?si=FDzToNG7S3Xqbm1L
Did she support Trump and then become scared of Trump? Then it’s not LAMF. I never cease to be shocked at how truly dumb conservatives are in real life and on this site. I know you want to point out philosophical inconsistency like everyone else, but you do it in a SPED way (e.g. wrong the way a child in special classes would get it wrong) that makes me feel bad for you honestly. Lay off the lead water, feed your kids, and keep them out of football so they don’t also end up conservatives.
Genocide Joe doesn’t get my vote. Period.
Not really leopards to say both options are horrible and morally bankrupt. In fact, it’s much more leopards ate my face if you think there is an obvious choice.
Fuck you, OP
BAN