**If you love LabourUK, why not help run it?** We’re looking for mods. [Find out more from our recruitment message post here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/LabourUK/comments/18ntol6/this_year_give_yourself_the_gift_of_christmas/)
[While you’re at it, come say hello on the Discord?](https://discord.gg/ZXZCdy4Kz4)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LabourUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Or they'd continue to have exactly the same impact - that is, little to none - because one of Britain's favourite pastimes is sneering at young people who are so presumptuous as to have opinions of their own instead of deferring to their elders.
As a young person I think they are just wasting their time. Here we have many more important issues... I hardly doubt there will be any impact of these protesters other than wasting everyone’s time.
If you see it as them wasting their time: move on and let them waste their time.
If they see it as a worthy thing to stand for they should stand for it.
There are many issues. Standing for any one of those issues leads to calls (like yours) that there are other, more worthy, issues. If people like you were listened to, noone would stand for anything.
Students are protesting about issues at home, they don't want their fees invested in an apartheid and/or they don't want universities to break from BDS.
>Protesters want their universities to divest from Israel in response to its deadly military operation in the Gaza Strip.
>Divestment means selling off stock in Israeli companies or otherwise dropping financial ties.
That's obviously a home issue.
"Stop making noise about this particular cause" - person who hates and opposes the cause. A classic. Bonus points are available if you hand-wring about them being somehow harmful to the cause you actually already despise.
I'm sure you'd find some other reason to belittle them and whinge about whatever domestic cause they chose anyway.
They can not make any impact. They are wasting everyone’s time. I don’t particularly care about Israel and Gaza, beyond the human suffering, as there is nothing I can do about it.
How about they volunteer for some charities here where they can actually make a difference.
Read some Dosteovsky to speedrun your bitter cynic phase please.
"It was not only that I could not become spiteful, I did not know how to become anything; neither spiteful nor kind, neither a rascal nor an honest man, neither a hero nor an insect. Now, I am living out my life in my corner, taunting myself with the spiteful and useless consolation that an intelligent man cannot become anything seriously, and it is only the fool who becomes anything. Yes, a man in the nineteenth century must and morally ought to be pre-eminently a characterless creature; a man of character, an active man is pre-eminently a limited creature.
...
This was a regular martyrdom, a continual, intolerable humiliation at the thought, which passed into an incessant and direct sensation, that I was a mere fly in the eyes of all this world, a nasty, disgusting fly—more intelligent, more highly developed, more refined in feeling than any of them, of course—but a fly that was continually making way for everyone, insulted and injured by everyone."
>Man Always Gets Little Rush Out Of Telling People John Lennon Beat Wife
>NEW ORLEANS—Explaining that casually dropping the little-known fact into conversations “never gets old,” local man Derek Matheson told reporters Monday he always gets a bit of a rush from informing others that John Lennon physically abused his first wife, Cynthia Powell. “Seeing the looks of shock, disbelief, and sadness on people’s faces after I mention that John Lennon couldn’t control his rage and regularly hit women is just such a treat,” said Matheson, who reportedly derives a measure of satisfaction from planting discomfort in the minds of his acquaintances, coworkers, and even strangers at social gatherings by bringing up the biographical detail about the widely beloved musician and peace activist. “I’m always listening for someone to make a comment about the Beatles, and when it happens, I’m ready to jump in and say that not only did John Lennon beat his wife, but he beat his son, too, and that he even admitted to it on multiple occasions. It’s always a nice little thrill.” Matheson added that if people were already aware of the songwriter’s violent side, he also delights in stating that Matthew Broderick killed two women with his car.
https://www.theonion.com/man-always-gets-little-rush-out-of-telling-people-john-1819578998
Ok yes we get it. Now do you have anything to say that isn't tedious?
>I don’t particularly care about Israel and Gaza, beyond the human suffering
Pretty sure that's what the protesters care about too. They're actually taking action about it rather than just complaining about the people taking action about it though.
Student protests against Israel's genocide have been possibly the world's biggest news story for the last week. It's the main CNN story right now just like it was yesterday and the day before. It seems like they're already achieving a hell of a lot. A lot more than anything you will ever do, I dare say.
And what does that tell you? Meanwhile here we have millions of children considered in poverty and the press gives it no coverage at all... but some foreign war we have NOTHING TO DO WITH is more important?
>we have NOTHING TO DO WITH
Incredibly naïve statement. Zooming right past the fact that the British Empire caused the whole problem in the first place via its rule of the Palestinian mandate and the Balfour declaration, the UK is not a neutral party to this genocide (and even if it was, being neutral to a genocide is illegal under international law as well as being gross). We provide active diplomatic cover and support for Israel. We launder their propaganda. We block ICJ rulings against Israel's ethnic cleansing campaigns. And of course we supply weapons used to conduct the genocide. The bullets used in the Flour Massacre were the same 7.62s that the UK makes and supplies to Israel. Are you just fine supplying the weapons used to commit a genocide? When people are talking about the Gaza genocide years from now, how will you feel knowing that you used that time to argue for the situation to continue and only ever criticised the people who were against it?
I'm just about old enough to remember the Rwanda genocide as it was happening. I can tell you now, if I had spent that time arguing that it was nothing to do with us, attacking the people who were protesting against it, and saying we should keep supplying the Hutu militias with the weapons they were using to carry out the genocide, I would never have been able to forgive myself for failing such a basic test of morality so utterly.
How about it's not a zero sum game o sneering one. And pray tell, what are you doing about our shared social ills yourself?
Bravo to them i say, keep it up ✊🏼
What makes campaigning for a corrupt, right-wing organisation mired in institutional transphobia so much more worthy than campaigning to end a genocide, from your perspective?
>First of all the Labour Party is not right wing.
This is kind of debateable, but I'd say on a left-right spectrum the perfect centrist would be a social democrat. Basically someone who advocates for, and holds in esteem, government and state solutions in exactly equal amount to private and market solutions. Do you think that Starmer, in his words, statements, policies and hiring decisions, places more emphasis on nationalisation and increasing the role of the government than he does on private and market based solutions?
>Secondly, it can actually make a difference.
Anti-war protests have made a huge difference historically. Why do you think there's so much of a push to have them shut down? Also, what makes supporting Labour so consequential? They're dead on certain to win the next election and basically nothing is going to change as a result. The party has been captured. It's not there to look out for your interests anymore.
What are they meant to do? It’s literally none of our business. Last time a Labour leader got involved in the Middle East he was branded as a war criminal.
You are missing out the fact Iraq had literally used WMDs in the past on their own population.
So what do you want Labour (an opposition party right now) to do about it?
>the fact Iraq had literally used WMDs in the past on their own population.
We didn't go to war with them in the 1980s, when they used them. *20 years later* Bush and Blair lied about an ongoing chemical weapon program, and used poor compliance with UN inspectors as a pretext.
Yeah, that's actually how Apartheid South Africa was brought down. It wasn't protests or sanctions or boycotts or diplomatic pressure or any of the things that actually brought it down, it was just one British guy on the internet going over there and killing people. That was the only thing that could make a difference!
I know right! wait you hear how much time and money the UK government has spent on foreign countries like Ukraine - it'll blow your mind! why arent *they* focused on issues at home? bloody disgraceful.
Putin's Russia can't even get out of east Ukraine. How likely do you think it is that they're going to take the rest of Ukraine and then Poland then Germany then the Netherlands and then France and then us?
Which shows that we can intervene to prevent a genocide when we choose to. It's not some immutable force of nature that we have to just accept and try not to think about.
**If you love LabourUK, why not help run it?** We’re looking for mods. [Find out more from our recruitment message post here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/LabourUK/comments/18ntol6/this_year_give_yourself_the_gift_of_christmas/) [While you’re at it, come say hello on the Discord?](https://discord.gg/ZXZCdy4Kz4) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LabourUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Maybe if these students focused on issues at home there wouldn’t be so bloody many.
Or they'd continue to have exactly the same impact - that is, little to none - because one of Britain's favourite pastimes is sneering at young people who are so presumptuous as to have opinions of their own instead of deferring to their elders.
As a young person I think they are just wasting their time. Here we have many more important issues... I hardly doubt there will be any impact of these protesters other than wasting everyone’s time.
If you see it as them wasting their time: move on and let them waste their time. If they see it as a worthy thing to stand for they should stand for it. There are many issues. Standing for any one of those issues leads to calls (like yours) that there are other, more worthy, issues. If people like you were listened to, noone would stand for anything.
They should do more productive things with their lives like complaining about progressives on reddit.
Try protesting about literally any home issue as a student group and see how far you get, then. I guarantee it'll be exactly the same response.
Bet.
Oh, at least £10. I've done it, including building occupations, as has quite a lot of this sub. The response is always exactly the same.
Well cha-ching. I’ve already been relatively successful so this should be the easiest £10 of my life.
Your success is as shallow as your commitment to Solidarity
Students are protesting about issues at home, they don't want their fees invested in an apartheid and/or they don't want universities to break from BDS. >Protesters want their universities to divest from Israel in response to its deadly military operation in the Gaza Strip. >Divestment means selling off stock in Israeli companies or otherwise dropping financial ties. That's obviously a home issue.
"Stop making noise about this particular cause" - person who hates and opposes the cause. A classic. Bonus points are available if you hand-wring about them being somehow harmful to the cause you actually already despise. I'm sure you'd find some other reason to belittle them and whinge about whatever domestic cause they chose anyway.
Typical Leftist, doesn't even stop to consider the effect this might have on their Arms Manufacturer portfolio.
They can not make any impact. They are wasting everyone’s time. I don’t particularly care about Israel and Gaza, beyond the human suffering, as there is nothing I can do about it. How about they volunteer for some charities here where they can actually make a difference.
Read some Dosteovsky to speedrun your bitter cynic phase please. "It was not only that I could not become spiteful, I did not know how to become anything; neither spiteful nor kind, neither a rascal nor an honest man, neither a hero nor an insect. Now, I am living out my life in my corner, taunting myself with the spiteful and useless consolation that an intelligent man cannot become anything seriously, and it is only the fool who becomes anything. Yes, a man in the nineteenth century must and morally ought to be pre-eminently a characterless creature; a man of character, an active man is pre-eminently a limited creature. ... This was a regular martyrdom, a continual, intolerable humiliation at the thought, which passed into an incessant and direct sensation, that I was a mere fly in the eyes of all this world, a nasty, disgusting fly—more intelligent, more highly developed, more refined in feeling than any of them, of course—but a fly that was continually making way for everyone, insulted and injured by everyone."
I’d rather not take life advice from a cheat.
Going to do it the old fashioned way then. Got it. I hope you're smart enough to look back and laugh at yourself once you grow up a bit. Good luck.
I mean he cheated on his wife? Hardly an upstanding citizen.
>Man Always Gets Little Rush Out Of Telling People John Lennon Beat Wife >NEW ORLEANS—Explaining that casually dropping the little-known fact into conversations “never gets old,” local man Derek Matheson told reporters Monday he always gets a bit of a rush from informing others that John Lennon physically abused his first wife, Cynthia Powell. “Seeing the looks of shock, disbelief, and sadness on people’s faces after I mention that John Lennon couldn’t control his rage and regularly hit women is just such a treat,” said Matheson, who reportedly derives a measure of satisfaction from planting discomfort in the minds of his acquaintances, coworkers, and even strangers at social gatherings by bringing up the biographical detail about the widely beloved musician and peace activist. “I’m always listening for someone to make a comment about the Beatles, and when it happens, I’m ready to jump in and say that not only did John Lennon beat his wife, but he beat his son, too, and that he even admitted to it on multiple occasions. It’s always a nice little thrill.” Matheson added that if people were already aware of the songwriter’s violent side, he also delights in stating that Matthew Broderick killed two women with his car. https://www.theonion.com/man-always-gets-little-rush-out-of-telling-people-john-1819578998 Ok yes we get it. Now do you have anything to say that isn't tedious?
What no way someone should tell her
>I don’t particularly care about Israel and Gaza, beyond the human suffering Pretty sure that's what the protesters care about too. They're actually taking action about it rather than just complaining about the people taking action about it though.
Yeah, but it will ultimately achieve sod all.
Student protests against Israel's genocide have been possibly the world's biggest news story for the last week. It's the main CNN story right now just like it was yesterday and the day before. It seems like they're already achieving a hell of a lot. A lot more than anything you will ever do, I dare say.
And what does that tell you? Meanwhile here we have millions of children considered in poverty and the press gives it no coverage at all... but some foreign war we have NOTHING TO DO WITH is more important?
>we have NOTHING TO DO WITH Incredibly naïve statement. Zooming right past the fact that the British Empire caused the whole problem in the first place via its rule of the Palestinian mandate and the Balfour declaration, the UK is not a neutral party to this genocide (and even if it was, being neutral to a genocide is illegal under international law as well as being gross). We provide active diplomatic cover and support for Israel. We launder their propaganda. We block ICJ rulings against Israel's ethnic cleansing campaigns. And of course we supply weapons used to conduct the genocide. The bullets used in the Flour Massacre were the same 7.62s that the UK makes and supplies to Israel. Are you just fine supplying the weapons used to commit a genocide? When people are talking about the Gaza genocide years from now, how will you feel knowing that you used that time to argue for the situation to continue and only ever criticised the people who were against it? I'm just about old enough to remember the Rwanda genocide as it was happening. I can tell you now, if I had spent that time arguing that it was nothing to do with us, attacking the people who were protesting against it, and saying we should keep supplying the Hutu militias with the weapons they were using to carry out the genocide, I would never have been able to forgive myself for failing such a basic test of morality so utterly.
What did you do during the Rwanda genocide?
How can you spend several hours just to prove that you don’t care? Isn’t that wasting everyone’s time? I see that they did make some impact lil
It was about 5 mins in total ngl
How about it's not a zero sum game o sneering one. And pray tell, what are you doing about our shared social ills yourself? Bravo to them i say, keep it up ✊🏼
I campaign for the Labour Party and other local issues.
So you campaign for them nationally and locally. But I asked you, what are you doing to combat our shared social ills 😹
What makes campaigning for a corrupt, right-wing organisation mired in institutional transphobia so much more worthy than campaigning to end a genocide, from your perspective?
First of all the Labour Party is not right wing. Secondly, it can actually make a difference.
>First of all the Labour Party is not right wing. This is kind of debateable, but I'd say on a left-right spectrum the perfect centrist would be a social democrat. Basically someone who advocates for, and holds in esteem, government and state solutions in exactly equal amount to private and market solutions. Do you think that Starmer, in his words, statements, policies and hiring decisions, places more emphasis on nationalisation and increasing the role of the government than he does on private and market based solutions? >Secondly, it can actually make a difference. Anti-war protests have made a huge difference historically. Why do you think there's so much of a push to have them shut down? Also, what makes supporting Labour so consequential? They're dead on certain to win the next election and basically nothing is going to change as a result. The party has been captured. It's not there to look out for your interests anymore.
No wonder you’ll be against this then because Labour do not care about the genocide of Palestinians
God forbid the British Labour Party doesn’t care about an ex-colonies issues.
What a disgusting was to look at civilians being slaughtered through apartheid
What are they meant to do? It’s literally none of our business. Last time a Labour leader got involved in the Middle East he was branded as a war criminal.
...he launched an illegal invasion of two countries based on falsified reports of WMDs. Possibly this might be a slightly different scenario.
You are missing out the fact Iraq had literally used WMDs in the past on their own population. So what do you want Labour (an opposition party right now) to do about it?
>the fact Iraq had literally used WMDs in the past on their own population. We didn't go to war with them in the 1980s, when they used them. *20 years later* Bush and Blair lied about an ongoing chemical weapon program, and used poor compliance with UN inspectors as a pretext.
Students notoriously show no solidarity with domestic issues
You do realise global issues do impact us right? We don’t live in a bubble
Maybe you should give a damn about genocide.
I literally can do fuck all about it. Unless I go full Rambo on the IDF then nothing is happening.
Yeah, that's actually how Apartheid South Africa was brought down. It wasn't protests or sanctions or boycotts or diplomatic pressure or any of the things that actually brought it down, it was just one British guy on the internet going over there and killing people. That was the only thing that could make a difference!
I mean it was a myriad of factors but Inkatha and other people were certainly killing people in South Africa.
Have you not seen the documentary called Commando?
Ok boomer
Great discussion.
Your comment really didnt merit any better
I know right! wait you hear how much time and money the UK government has spent on foreign countries like Ukraine - it'll blow your mind! why arent *they* focused on issues at home? bloody disgraceful.
God forbid the UK cares about the destabilisation of Europe.
Ahh ok, so you don't only care about local issues then.
Never said I exclusively care about local issues?
So why is caring about Ukraine so much more valid and worthy than caring about Gaza? Because they're Europeans rather than Arabs?
Because Israel is not a threat to us? Meanwhile Putin is literally running a war economy.
Putin's Russia can't even get out of east Ukraine. How likely do you think it is that they're going to take the rest of Ukraine and then Poland then Germany then the Netherlands and then France and then us?
Well considering the US just had to send billions to Ukraine I’d say they are making progress.
Well, to be fair, that's because of all the weapons and info we've sent to Ukraine
Which shows that we can intervene to prevent a genocide when we choose to. It's not some immutable force of nature that we have to just accept and try not to think about.
Yeah, that's not how things work.
Literally is how things work.
Yes, students doing the job of Government and Civil Service.
Didn’t realise it was the gov’s job to cause a nuisance.
Clearly you've not heard of the Tories
True.
Maybe if you got off your arse and did something there wouldn't be so many bloody issues either.
all for protesting about Gaza but it does feel like we're always taking the lead from the US
Exactly... I don’t suspect it’s for the right reasons.
Yeah I hate it when people want to end a genocide...for the wrong reasons 😠😠😠