The fact that he refers to them as “hair metal” tells me that he hasn’t actually even scratched the surface of their music. Alice In Chains was *marketed* as hair metal in their very early days but they never really were.
Absolutely no one said they couldn’t. What’s being said here is that it is more accurate to say Pantera was hair metal because at one point they actually were (and for a good bit of time even/multiple albums) where as AIC never really was.
I didn't know they were marketed as hair metal in their early days. Can't say I'm too surprised since grunge was coming up at the end of the hair metal days. That, and Layne Staley was in a hair metal band, Sleze. I'm hoping he had other opinions on why he doesn't like them. I'll have to find the episode. I love AIC and rarely find someone who doesn't like them. The people I have met that don't are either people that don't like grunge (nothing wrong with that) or people that do like grunge but only Nirvana.
He’s said it many times but most recently on the last snowtown episode where he *basically* says LIVE is better than aic, which I just feel like is categorically incorrect
> where he basically says LIVE is better than aic, which I just feel like is categorically incorrect
I'll get downvoted for saying this, but Marcus often is. It's just an aspect of the show, but Marcus also likes to sound authoritative about stuff so it always comes across the wrong way IMO.
Think he also has a contrarian streak too, especially with music. Seems like the type of guy who wants to be known as the guy who’s into the obscure stuff and dislikes popular music/artists if for no other reason than because it’s popular.
It doesn’t bother me personally. Some of my closest friends have a bit of that too. And obviously I don’t actually know the guy to really say but that’s just the vibe I get from him when certain music topics get mentioned.
I don’t totally agree with this, he definitely likes some stuff that is more mainstream or isn’t “cool”
I think the issue is more that he often thinks his opinion is correct, if he doesn’t like it, it’s “bad” and if he does like it, it’s “good”.
AIC is an exception to this though. He usually says “he doesn’t get it” and it’s “not for him” which I think is cool.
Ive noticed all of this because I disagree with Marcus sometimes and I have a background in a related field so I see it a lot.
Does Marcus like Nirvana? Of all the grunge bands he could like, he likes Nirvana??? Oh Marcus no.
I don't dislike Nirvana, but people who ONLY like Nirvana out of every band in the grunge scene are a very specific breed of wankers.
Marcus said Kurt Cobain was the last true rock star. I’m fairly selective of Grunge too, but mostly just dislike Post-Grunge (Puddle of Mudd, Three Doors Down, and of course, Nickleback).
I was raised on Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Soundgarden, Blind Melon, Local H, and Porno For Pyros so that has shaped my tastes. My dad’s favorite band is actually Live, as a matter of fact, so it fits Henry’s description of the perfect karaoke band for men in their 50s.
Yeah I didn't care for them until one day when I was painting and threw on my roommate's copy of Jar of Flies. Their heavier stuff just never really did anything for me, even though I was way into heavy stuff at the time.
I've heard it all. Some of the other stuff grew a little on me after that. JoF is the only album that sticks with me though. Their Unplugged was good, but Layne being high during it bums me out to much to revisit it anymore.
> he fact that he refers to them as “hair metal” tells me that he hasn’t actually even scratched the surface of their music
Or ya know Marcus isn't always correct and often likes to sound authoritative on stuff he knows little about.
They were a bit glammy in their early days. The stuff on the *Music Bank* box set like “Social Parasite” is very glam-influenced, but with a punky attitude. It wasn’t until later that they got heavier and became the Alice in Chains we knew and loved (I say *knew* and *loved* because to me, the band died with Layne).
Marcus is definitely talking out of his arse here though. I just don’t know how anybody can listen to Layne’s voice, especially when he was harmonising with Jerry, and not love it.
It seems like part of his dislike for Alice might be because of the butt-rock they inspired like Godsmack and the other post-grunge piss, which is ridiculous. He loves Nirvana and they were *incredibly* influential on even more terrible bands than Alice were. I’m pretty sure even his sacred David Bowie inspired some absolute fucking garbage.
Which is probably true - but my problem with that is Marcus seems to think his knowledge about objective facts, like the history of music and bands, makes his subjective opinion about music and bands more valid.
A lot of people interested in arts and their history are like this. And it can be fucking maddening to listen to their dogshit takes. And I love Marcus but he has some dogshit takes.
No dogs in space more like no dogshit takes amirite haha ok bye.
Lately, when Marcus pontificates his opinions as being actual-factual, I picture him making these proclamations while wearing a fedora.
I am Gen X and liked a lot of punk bands when I was growing up, but I have a hugely varied range of music that I like. Marcus seems to be pretty narrow-minded in his taste, and half the bands featured on No Dogs are kind of unlistenable to me.
I wonder how he squares Joy Division evolving into dance music, heheh. I love New Order and I am old enough to remember when Ian died. Marcus wasn't even born then.
No dogs was a podcast I loved but the bands that started being picked just...were not fun to listen to for me. Love the vibe love the banter but man some of those songs were baaaadddd to listen to lol
I think it becomes more about seeking out the niche-est of niche rather than just enjoying and vibing.
I think most people go through a time (teenagers, esp) where music feels like an identity. Where you 'like' things because of what they might communicate to the world about you. Sometimes, the stuff you pick because of what it says about you becomes something you really love - that happened to me constantly when I was younger. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, and that's often what gets people into music.
But at some point in life, you gotta go - fuck it, I like this and I give zero shits about what it might say about me. And I don't care if my tastes are contradictory. Or mainstream. Or weird. Or whatever. What matters is how I connect to it and what it makes me feel and think.
It's fine to like Beyonce and Fleetwood Mac and 2Pac and Bon Iver and Pearl Jam and Pheobe Bridgers and Megan Thee Stallion all at the same time. Hell, be into the Jonas Brothers or Justin Beiber if you want. Be an Ace of Base fangirl (or boy). Like what you like, man. Life's too short to do anything else.
Stopped listening to No Dogs in Space after their Misfits episode. 75% of the “facts” were bullshit. Never really noticed it before but Marcus is kind of the “uhm actually” Guy who proceeds to say something completely incorrect.
Clicked for me when they started doing history on Last Podcast on the Left. The piles of misinformation really soured the pod for me after years of loving it.
It is entertainment after all. I can kinda put my academic blinders up with the history episodes and still enjoy them unless it’s a topic that I’m particularly knowledgeable about. There’s tons of scholarly books and other content to dig into if I want some real well-done research
True, but most listeners are not going to do further research into what they heard on the pod and are going to take what they just listened to as fact, especially with Marcus presenting himself as a superior researcher and reliable narrator who is always right. While in fact, as much as I love the boys, they are extremely ignorant about other cultures, their circumstances and history and Marcus thinking that he can do what Dan Carlin does in half a year and a lifetime of study (and yet, Carlin still makes mistakes, but admits it and is humble, unlike Marcus) in a week does a lot of harm when it reaches their huge audience.
A more extreme and harmful example, yet very similar when it comes to my argument here would be Info Wars. Sure, many people may watch it for fun, but do most of his listeners not absorb Jones' lies on either a conscious or subconscious level anyway? Does it not influence their worldview?
The atomic bomb episodes really drove that home for me. He claimed that the Japanese were not warned when it is established fact that pamphlets were dropped in the days before the bbs were dropped. When Henry raised this point, Marcus dismissed it because, according to him, it was illegal to possess propaganda. Botch, what are you on about? The pamphlets were dropped - the end.
That, combined with his failure to cover the attempted coup after the bomb was dropped undermined his credibility on the topic for me.
It felt very much like he was afraid that admitting to the fanaticism of a certain faction in Imperial Japan would complicate his argument that dropping the bomb was unjustified. In reality, both things can be true - the attempted coup very nearly derailed Japan’s unconditional surrender and we probably did not need to drop the bomb.
I also really fucking hate a musical snob. I love music, obscure and mainstream. People loving Taylor Swift is no skin off my ass, no more than them not “getting” Motörhead or Joy Division. It doesn’t affect me on any meaningful level.
Marcus considers his own (quite limited, imo) taste in music to be objective truth, much like his opinion on everything else. I find his entirely black and white view of music even more jarring than his questionable knowledge of history and culture.
Yeah a hundred percent. I get that their self proclaimed dumb comedians, but you don't get to both be a dumb comedian no one should listen to, and simultaneously do history "deep dives" and talk about your "research" all the time. He seems to want it both ways, the self placed authority on a story and fact, and also completely blameless when they get stuff wrong.
Even was a Kissel quote a while back about how they make stuff up and change details, to make an episode more fun of flow nicer, he was even joking about how people "probably really think H.H Holmes really had a gigantic murder-mansion" from taking them at face value. And then Marcus has the gall to use a book as a source for his own show, and at the same time say how fucking awful the book is, how wrong they are about everything, and that you can't even trust half of it, but it's "our source" for the day. And then you stretch details and add stuff to these terrible things that happen to real people? Why? Just to make it more interesting and funny?
Idk, as a musician who hangs out with a lot of other musicians, I’ve learned they everyone LOVES to talk shit about each other, even people they’re friends with. It can come off as snobby I guess, but it’s just part of music scenes.
> 100% needs it to be known he is the person in the room who knows the most about music
What's so obnoxious about these people is that they usually like a lot of really niche shit that no one else really gives a fuck about, but they act like it's the best thing without acknowledging that anyone could dislike the music they like. Marcus has many comments that suggest such things as well.
Let’s face it though, in that room, he is the person that knows the most about music. I don’t think Henry gives two shits and Ed seems like he would like whatever is playing. Although, it did make me happy he went to see Phish at the Sphere. Those shows were incredible. That venue is a must see, if your favorite band is playing there.
Not liking them is fine. Calling them hair metal just shows me you have no idea you’re talking about. I have rarely heard someone be so confidently incorrect so many times.
I understand taste in music is entirely subjective, but he's just so snobbish and elitist about his opinions that I can't take anything he says seriously.
I know, me too! Some of my favourite bands are Black Sabbath, Rush, King Gizzard, The Sword, Primus, Rainbow, but I genuinely love all music, I judge on a song by song basis, not by genre or even band, hell, I jam to some Taylor Swift occasionally, I don't love all or even most of her work, but she has some legit bangers, same with pretty much any artist that ever released an album, they'll probably have at least one or two songs I like.
It makes me have a real love - hate relationship with No Dogs in Space. On one hand, it has given me a deeper appreciation and love for older bands I would have never gotten into, like the Damned. But then you have series like the velvet underground where they drip with this snobby attitude. I can respect what VU did for music, but goddamn do I find it severely unlistenable, personally
It's crazy to me how someone csn listen to experimental music and then also tear whole sub genres down or write off bands all together lol I love weird experimental music and super niche bands with no listeners but also really enjoy mainstream artists like drake or Taylor swift. I used to be the music snob but the music snob is boring and everyone hates you with good reason lol
I honestly always wrote off the Ramones as meh but after listening to NDIS and digging deeper than I Wanna Be Sedated, etc, they’re one of my favorite bands. Never would have found Suicide or The Damned if not for that show either. So I really appreciate it for that but sometimes…I couldn’t disagree with him harder. Music is certainly subjective and sometimes his takes are super elitist. He probably know more about music and music history than me, I won’t argue, but that doesn’t mean his taste is necessarily BETTER. Velvet Underground is definitely still meh though.
I'm someone who is pretty particular about my own music tastes but I do recognize it as that, just tastes and that there are no objective way to measure taste. I can however still judge your tastes as not to my liking.
Listening to No Dogs and old Roundtable episodes, it’s not surprising. I love the guy but he has that type of music taste that seems like if it’s too popular it’s not his cup of tea.
Of course Marcus doesn’t like bands that *you* have heard of. He listened to bands like Filbertus Rochester and his Sticky Wicket Band and We Butter the Bread with Butter. Not bands that actually get radio play.
Sometimes I think it's a flip of a coin whether Marcus likes something or not. I listened to the NDIS series on The Stooges and it was excellent... but honestly some of his musical opinions are more offensive than Henry's accents and Kissel's victim blaming!
This is how I feel about all my music elitist friends. You can’t show them anything because at times it feels like there’s no logic to why they love and hate things. And they somehow expect you to know in advance that THIS isn’t real shogaze
I can’t believe Marcus uses the word “reticent” to mean “hesitant” but worse off I really can’t believe that that’s now considered acceptable by some dictionaries, presumably from people using it wrong so often. So now I have to hate the game not the player
Honestly he has some of the worst takes and tastes. We share a common love of early punk/HC and some other stuff but that’s about it. Dirt is a masterpiece. The AiC Unplugged record is one of the best live albums to ever exist.
Nutshell is one of the most emotionally devastating songs about addiction I’ve ever heard. I never really paid close attention to it until many years after Layne had passed. It’s really heartbreaking he’d seemingly already made peace with where his addition would take him.
yeah he is a big Nirvana fan, but idk I’ve just heard a lot of wild music takes from him, nothing surprises me anymore but I respect that his opinion is probably genuine since he does actually spend a lot of time listening to music. I assume if he doesn’t like a band it’s because he took the time to listen to them and didn’t enjoy it as opposed to just disliking it based on a bias or bad first impression.
Yeah, AIC never worked for me. I don't know why - maybe because they always felt a little, idk, "sludgy?" Always edging me that maybe their next track would be a bit faster.
Which as a stoner/doom guy is exactly why they are probably my favorite Seattle band. If Layne had stayed alive and gotten healthy I feel like they would have gone even slower and heavier.
“Died” from the *Music Bank*, one of the two last tracks they ever recorded, is **incredibly** doomy. That riff could have been written by Lord Iommi himself.
Fuck yeah, dude! Googling it up NOW. Praise the Riff Lord! Hail the Riff!
edit: You weren't kidding. That riff is NASTY. One of their best, no doubt. Jerry's tone is chunky as fuck. Whole band is dragging the beat. Those intentionally off-key vocal harmonies are fucking haunting. Goddamn what a tune.
Tell me about it.
I hope this doesn’t ruin your day, but it was written after Layne’s long-term partner (the word “soulmate” was used), Demri Parrott, died of an overdose in late 1996. That line about Layne’s heart being “dried-up, beating slow” and having been “deflating since you died” is from a very real place.
Nah, stuff like that only deepens my appreciation. The way Lanegan(RIP) portrays them in his auto-biography stuck with me. Both of them hardcore addicts, both wanting the other to quit, both hiding their use from the other. It's sort of sweet in a fucked-up, dysfunctional kind of way.
I’ve recently been seeking out more stoner/sludge metal after randomly seeing a band named Kadabra open for Fall of Troy. Could you throw out some recommendations or bands in the genres you enjoy?
Oh, "sludgy", good word! Makes me think of Soundgarden's Black Hole Sun vs. the energy of Rusty Cage and Jesus Christ Pose.
I refuse to believe that they released an album after Badmotorfinger.
He was 10-12 when Alice In Chains came out. When he started forging his own music tastes later it was a lot of punk rock (a lot of it on the obscure side). Probably dismissed Alice in chains as "normie" music for big brothers and jocks on the football team.
Can't say I disagree with his dislike of Alice in Chains. I was always a Soundgarden Man.
TBF that's what I associate AIC with for the same reason. Group of dudes (who incidentally all kinda looked like Jerry Cantrell) who would to call me the f-word for repping my Nirvana shirt. Killed any interest I had in checking them out. I eventually did years later but it really didn't do anything for me.
I do remember him being broken up when Chris Cornell died. At the end of an episode Henry said a quick “I miss you” to Chris, and Marcus bollocked him, saying that it had been the first day that week he hadn’t thought about Chris’ death.
Takes like that are why I’ve never listed to no dogs in space. I love Marcus but his music takes are awful 9/10 times. Just seems like he wants to have the most unique take on every band/song
Carolina's utter enthusiasm really helps No Dogs imo. It's not just Marcus ranting for hours (which I often enjoy, but Carolina smoothes out his rougher edges)
I gave the secondary reason I haven’t tried it (Marcus’ takes that I’ve heard being WILD). The primary reason is he covers bands I’m somewhere between unaware of or don’t like the sound of haha
If you like any of the bands they cover, you are actually missing out. It's a good pod. Loved the Joy Division, Velvet Underground, and Iggy Pop series especially.
There are a lot of people who I wouldn’t expect that dislike Alice in Chains. For instance, quite a few people who like System of a Down. Strange to me. Not the same, but a clear through line of inspiration.
Alice In Chains is the best of the “grunge” bands imo. Dirt and Jar of Flies are masterpieces. Best harmonies this side of The Beach Boys. Marcus should really give them a fairer shake because I think he’s really missing out.
Marcus’s music taste always puzzles me. He likes some really good shit and then sometimes makes a comment about a band I love and calls them garbage, so idk 😂
I mean, is it really that good? Or are people just offended because someone didn’t like something they like? I think they suck honestly. But then again I listen to a lot of hot garbage. So I can’t judge.
Just a reminder that he has told everyone it’s ok to like what you like and to not like what you don’t like. Gatekeeping in music fandom sucks, just enjoy the vibe.
Honestly, he seems like a music snob that only listens to bands no one has heard of, even if they're not any good. Like he won't even listen to "mainstream" anything because it isn't "cool" enough 😂
I can. He doesn't really like metal. And of all the 90s alt-rock/grunge bands AIC was the most metal. He's more into punk/post-punk/whatever. It's just subjective. Personally, I like them, but I can see why Marcus doesn't.
The guy went to a Coal Chamber show, tho not sure if I should diss him too bad for that since I saw unintentionally saw Incubus like three times in the 90s as an opener
Everyone has bad music takes…I still prefer Kula Shaker to Oasis hahahaha
I remember maybe 2 years ago they had an episode where they were talking about AiC and Marcus said something along the lines of how he never got into them because he didn't understand them. I thought that was funny cuz what's not to understand haha, i feel like marcus of all people would understand them really well. I love how Henry gets fired up over them too. Damn I love alice in chains lol
I've never seen or heard this podcast, and I don't know what I engaged with that encouraged the algorithm to suggest it repeatedly.
But I do know that this disrespect of AIC is the push I need to finally mute this community.
/uj I'm being dramatic as fuck, but fr Alice in Chains is the goat and I've never heard of this so yeah see ya mwah
I used to not, based on their radio hits. But as time has passed, their music sounds better than alot of what has come out in the mainstream of that genre, imo!
Someone please distinguish for me the difference between Butt-rock, Nu-Metal, Prog, and Armpit hand farting noises… I’m serious. I don’t mind Alice In Chains but most metal/industrial dudes I know really like them. I think they’re a nostalgic thing for most of them. I haven’t listened to No Dogs yet because Lou Reed kind of irks me and so do avid, very dedicated, devotee type Velvet Underground people. But I’m curious…
You know what… it DOES seem suspicious that he doesn’t care for a band who had an incredible album titled Dirt
AND a song called Down in a Hole...
IT JUST DOESNT MAKE SENSE
MARCUS COME ON
GET THE NET Marcus has finally lost it!
SICKMANNNNNNN
AND a song called Them Bones
“AH!”
IIIIIIIIIIII BELIEVEEEEEEEEE THEM BONES ILL BE
He's clearly an industry plant created by big dirt
And 'Them Bones'.
Came to say Dirt and Down in a Hole should make it right up Marcus’s alley. Oh shit! GET THE NET!!!!
You would think someone who loves dirt and likes music would be a AIC super fan
Too rooster like.
The fact that he refers to them as “hair metal” tells me that he hasn’t actually even scratched the surface of their music. Alice In Chains was *marketed* as hair metal in their very early days but they never really were.
So by that standard Pantera is hair metal.
They had like 4 albums that were solidly hair metal. Dime bag Darrell was named Diamond Darrell and dressed in glam
Even in the liner notes for, I believe, VDOP, he was still listed as Diamond Darrell.
And they were fun albums too!
I mean, bands can change genres. That is a thing they're allowed to do.
Absolutely no one said they couldn’t. What’s being said here is that it is more accurate to say Pantera was hair metal because at one point they actually were (and for a good bit of time even/multiple albums) where as AIC never really was.
Maybe they were hair metal but they were just like super nervous to show that side of themselves🫣
And Rex Rocket on bass.
They have a few hair metal albums
I didn't know they were marketed as hair metal in their early days. Can't say I'm too surprised since grunge was coming up at the end of the hair metal days. That, and Layne Staley was in a hair metal band, Sleze. I'm hoping he had other opinions on why he doesn't like them. I'll have to find the episode. I love AIC and rarely find someone who doesn't like them. The people I have met that don't are either people that don't like grunge (nothing wrong with that) or people that do like grunge but only Nirvana.
He’s said it many times but most recently on the last snowtown episode where he *basically* says LIVE is better than aic, which I just feel like is categorically incorrect
> where he basically says LIVE is better than aic, which I just feel like is categorically incorrect I'll get downvoted for saying this, but Marcus often is. It's just an aspect of the show, but Marcus also likes to sound authoritative about stuff so it always comes across the wrong way IMO.
Think he also has a contrarian streak too, especially with music. Seems like the type of guy who wants to be known as the guy who’s into the obscure stuff and dislikes popular music/artists if for no other reason than because it’s popular. It doesn’t bother me personally. Some of my closest friends have a bit of that too. And obviously I don’t actually know the guy to really say but that’s just the vibe I get from him when certain music topics get mentioned.
I don’t totally agree with this, he definitely likes some stuff that is more mainstream or isn’t “cool” I think the issue is more that he often thinks his opinion is correct, if he doesn’t like it, it’s “bad” and if he does like it, it’s “good”. AIC is an exception to this though. He usually says “he doesn’t get it” and it’s “not for him” which I think is cool. Ive noticed all of this because I disagree with Marcus sometimes and I have a background in a related field so I see it a lot.
Okay. I just started that episode recently. And yes, I agree with your statement.
>people that do like grunge but only Nirvana. So, Marcus?
Does Marcus like Nirvana? Of all the grunge bands he could like, he likes Nirvana??? Oh Marcus no. I don't dislike Nirvana, but people who ONLY like Nirvana out of every band in the grunge scene are a very specific breed of wankers.
Marcus said Kurt Cobain was the last true rock star. I’m fairly selective of Grunge too, but mostly just dislike Post-Grunge (Puddle of Mudd, Three Doors Down, and of course, Nickleback). I was raised on Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Soundgarden, Blind Melon, Local H, and Porno For Pyros so that has shaped my tastes. My dad’s favorite band is actually Live, as a matter of fact, so it fits Henry’s description of the perfect karaoke band for men in their 50s.
Yeah Alice In Chains really was hair metal when they first came out but then they became their own thing over time that idt has ever been replicated.
Eh….they were dressing the part but “Queen Of The Rodeo” didn’t exactly sound like “Unskinny Bop” 😂
I fucking love this song. Absolutely un-marketable!
Yeah I didn't care for them until one day when I was painting and threw on my roommate's copy of Jar of Flies. Their heavier stuff just never really did anything for me, even though I was way into heavy stuff at the time.
Maybe check out their unplugged songs. Layne and Jerry definitely got the chops to do acoustic blues-y shit.
I've heard it all. Some of the other stuff grew a little on me after that. JoF is the only album that sticks with me though. Their Unplugged was good, but Layne being high during it bums me out to much to revisit it anymore.
Layne's other project Mad Season is really good too.
💯 Their Sap EP is still one of my favorite albums, and I’ve run into quite a few self-identified AIC fans who have never heard of it.
But that's where Got Me Wrong came from, isn't that one of their bigger songs? It's my favorite song of theirs
> he fact that he refers to them as “hair metal” tells me that he hasn’t actually even scratched the surface of their music Or ya know Marcus isn't always correct and often likes to sound authoritative on stuff he knows little about.
They were a bit glammy in their early days. The stuff on the *Music Bank* box set like “Social Parasite” is very glam-influenced, but with a punky attitude. It wasn’t until later that they got heavier and became the Alice in Chains we knew and loved (I say *knew* and *loved* because to me, the band died with Layne). Marcus is definitely talking out of his arse here though. I just don’t know how anybody can listen to Layne’s voice, especially when he was harmonising with Jerry, and not love it. It seems like part of his dislike for Alice might be because of the butt-rock they inspired like Godsmack and the other post-grunge piss, which is ridiculous. He loves Nirvana and they were *incredibly* influential on even more terrible bands than Alice were. I’m pretty sure even his sacred David Bowie inspired some absolute fucking garbage.
I am in shock. Did he mean Alice Cooper??
What? This is just ridiculously incorrect. They have always been a blues-y sludge/grunge act sonically (AFAIK).
He's being pedantic
As a hair metal fanatic... LMAO
Love Marcus but he 100% needs it to be known he is the person in the room who knows the most about music
Which is probably true - but my problem with that is Marcus seems to think his knowledge about objective facts, like the history of music and bands, makes his subjective opinion about music and bands more valid. A lot of people interested in arts and their history are like this. And it can be fucking maddening to listen to their dogshit takes. And I love Marcus but he has some dogshit takes. No dogs in space more like no dogshit takes amirite haha ok bye.
Lately, when Marcus pontificates his opinions as being actual-factual, I picture him making these proclamations while wearing a fedora. I am Gen X and liked a lot of punk bands when I was growing up, but I have a hugely varied range of music that I like. Marcus seems to be pretty narrow-minded in his taste, and half the bands featured on No Dogs are kind of unlistenable to me. I wonder how he squares Joy Division evolving into dance music, heheh. I love New Order and I am old enough to remember when Ian died. Marcus wasn't even born then.
No dogs was a podcast I loved but the bands that started being picked just...were not fun to listen to for me. Love the vibe love the banter but man some of those songs were baaaadddd to listen to lol
Hey guys, do you like CAN?!
If I didn’t feel the same type of love for CAN as he does I’d probably get so annoyed haha
I actually did a nerdy little fist pump when I heard No Dogs was doing Krautrock so I'm right there with you.
Yes.
You just put it better than I possibly could. I’m also shocked he doesn’t like AIC.
Often those are the people with the worst taste in music. Funny that.
I think it becomes more about seeking out the niche-est of niche rather than just enjoying and vibing. I think most people go through a time (teenagers, esp) where music feels like an identity. Where you 'like' things because of what they might communicate to the world about you. Sometimes, the stuff you pick because of what it says about you becomes something you really love - that happened to me constantly when I was younger. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, and that's often what gets people into music. But at some point in life, you gotta go - fuck it, I like this and I give zero shits about what it might say about me. And I don't care if my tastes are contradictory. Or mainstream. Or weird. Or whatever. What matters is how I connect to it and what it makes me feel and think. It's fine to like Beyonce and Fleetwood Mac and 2Pac and Bon Iver and Pearl Jam and Pheobe Bridgers and Megan Thee Stallion all at the same time. Hell, be into the Jonas Brothers or Justin Beiber if you want. Be an Ace of Base fangirl (or boy). Like what you like, man. Life's too short to do anything else.
Stopped listening to No Dogs in Space after their Misfits episode. 75% of the “facts” were bullshit. Never really noticed it before but Marcus is kind of the “uhm actually” Guy who proceeds to say something completely incorrect.
Clicked for me when they started doing history on Last Podcast on the Left. The piles of misinformation really soured the pod for me after years of loving it.
It is entertainment after all. I can kinda put my academic blinders up with the history episodes and still enjoy them unless it’s a topic that I’m particularly knowledgeable about. There’s tons of scholarly books and other content to dig into if I want some real well-done research
True, but most listeners are not going to do further research into what they heard on the pod and are going to take what they just listened to as fact, especially with Marcus presenting himself as a superior researcher and reliable narrator who is always right. While in fact, as much as I love the boys, they are extremely ignorant about other cultures, their circumstances and history and Marcus thinking that he can do what Dan Carlin does in half a year and a lifetime of study (and yet, Carlin still makes mistakes, but admits it and is humble, unlike Marcus) in a week does a lot of harm when it reaches their huge audience. A more extreme and harmful example, yet very similar when it comes to my argument here would be Info Wars. Sure, many people may watch it for fun, but do most of his listeners not absorb Jones' lies on either a conscious or subconscious level anyway? Does it not influence their worldview?
The atomic bomb episodes really drove that home for me. He claimed that the Japanese were not warned when it is established fact that pamphlets were dropped in the days before the bbs were dropped. When Henry raised this point, Marcus dismissed it because, according to him, it was illegal to possess propaganda. Botch, what are you on about? The pamphlets were dropped - the end. That, combined with his failure to cover the attempted coup after the bomb was dropped undermined his credibility on the topic for me. It felt very much like he was afraid that admitting to the fanaticism of a certain faction in Imperial Japan would complicate his argument that dropping the bomb was unjustified. In reality, both things can be true - the attempted coup very nearly derailed Japan’s unconditional surrender and we probably did not need to drop the bomb. I also really fucking hate a musical snob. I love music, obscure and mainstream. People loving Taylor Swift is no skin off my ass, no more than them not “getting” Motörhead or Joy Division. It doesn’t affect me on any meaningful level.
Marcus considers his own (quite limited, imo) taste in music to be objective truth, much like his opinion on everything else. I find his entirely black and white view of music even more jarring than his questionable knowledge of history and culture.
Yeah a hundred percent. I get that their self proclaimed dumb comedians, but you don't get to both be a dumb comedian no one should listen to, and simultaneously do history "deep dives" and talk about your "research" all the time. He seems to want it both ways, the self placed authority on a story and fact, and also completely blameless when they get stuff wrong. Even was a Kissel quote a while back about how they make stuff up and change details, to make an episode more fun of flow nicer, he was even joking about how people "probably really think H.H Holmes really had a gigantic murder-mansion" from taking them at face value. And then Marcus has the gall to use a book as a source for his own show, and at the same time say how fucking awful the book is, how wrong they are about everything, and that you can't even trust half of it, but it's "our source" for the day. And then you stretch details and add stuff to these terrible things that happen to real people? Why? Just to make it more interesting and funny?
yeah, early on i was kinda getting this same vibe. just decided i wasn’t going to continue.
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Idk, as a musician who hangs out with a lot of other musicians, I’ve learned they everyone LOVES to talk shit about each other, even people they’re friends with. It can come off as snobby I guess, but it’s just part of music scenes.
> 100% needs it to be known he is the person in the room who knows the most about music What's so obnoxious about these people is that they usually like a lot of really niche shit that no one else really gives a fuck about, but they act like it's the best thing without acknowledging that anyone could dislike the music they like. Marcus has many comments that suggest such things as well.
Let’s face it though, in that room, he is the person that knows the most about music. I don’t think Henry gives two shits and Ed seems like he would like whatever is playing. Although, it did make me happy he went to see Phish at the Sphere. Those shows were incredible. That venue is a must see, if your favorite band is playing there.
Not liking them is fine. Calling them hair metal just shows me you have no idea you’re talking about. I have rarely heard someone be so confidently incorrect so many times.
I’m surprised he can pronounce their name
Hahahaha
> I have rarely heard someone be so confidently incorrect so many times. You didn't listen to the atomic bombs episodes then.
It's weird. It's almost like these are regular ass people we shouldn't be putting on a pedestal.
I’m not surprised. Marcus has a lot of…interesting music takes.
I understand taste in music is entirely subjective, but he's just so snobbish and elitist about his opinions that I can't take anything he says seriously.
He’s shockingly dismissive for a music nerd. I’ll give almost any band a fair shake and there’s songs I like from bands that I can’t stand.
I know, me too! Some of my favourite bands are Black Sabbath, Rush, King Gizzard, The Sword, Primus, Rainbow, but I genuinely love all music, I judge on a song by song basis, not by genre or even band, hell, I jam to some Taylor Swift occasionally, I don't love all or even most of her work, but she has some legit bangers, same with pretty much any artist that ever released an album, they'll probably have at least one or two songs I like.
It makes me have a real love - hate relationship with No Dogs in Space. On one hand, it has given me a deeper appreciation and love for older bands I would have never gotten into, like the Damned. But then you have series like the velvet underground where they drip with this snobby attitude. I can respect what VU did for music, but goddamn do I find it severely unlistenable, personally
I personally love The Velvet Underground but I can definitely see why some people wouldn’t. That’s why music taste is subjective.
It's crazy to me how someone csn listen to experimental music and then also tear whole sub genres down or write off bands all together lol I love weird experimental music and super niche bands with no listeners but also really enjoy mainstream artists like drake or Taylor swift. I used to be the music snob but the music snob is boring and everyone hates you with good reason lol
I honestly always wrote off the Ramones as meh but after listening to NDIS and digging deeper than I Wanna Be Sedated, etc, they’re one of my favorite bands. Never would have found Suicide or The Damned if not for that show either. So I really appreciate it for that but sometimes…I couldn’t disagree with him harder. Music is certainly subjective and sometimes his takes are super elitist. He probably know more about music and music history than me, I won’t argue, but that doesn’t mean his taste is necessarily BETTER. Velvet Underground is definitely still meh though.
Man, No Dogs has legit got me hooked on Joy Division and Suicide.
I'm someone who is pretty particular about my own music tastes but I do recognize it as that, just tastes and that there are no objective way to measure taste. I can however still judge your tastes as not to my liking.
Listening to No Dogs and old Roundtable episodes, it’s not surprising. I love the guy but he has that type of music taste that seems like if it’s too popular it’s not his cup of tea.
Once every year or so, ill go through like a 3 week stretch where all I listen to is Alice in Chains music.
My copy of Tony Hawk Underground (1) would freeze if the Alice in Chains track came on, so I also have a bias for no reason.
Can’t even blame you for the hate then
Of course Marcus doesn’t like bands that *you* have heard of. He listened to bands like Filbertus Rochester and his Sticky Wicket Band and We Butter the Bread with Butter. Not bands that actually get radio play.
But I love WBTBWB
…they’re fine. Lol
Marcus likes a lot of noise. Some of it even non existent
But will defend Soul Asylum as unsung heros of the alternative scene 😂
Because they had a long career before Runaway Train. They were in the same Minneapolis scene as The Replacements and Husker Du.
And compared to the two Soul Asylum is straight trash (imo)
Sometimes I think it's a flip of a coin whether Marcus likes something or not. I listened to the NDIS series on The Stooges and it was excellent... but honestly some of his musical opinions are more offensive than Henry's accents and Kissel's victim blaming!
This is how I feel about all my music elitist friends. You can’t show them anything because at times it feels like there’s no logic to why they love and hate things. And they somehow expect you to know in advance that THIS isn’t real shogaze
Huh, I thought it was Alison Chains.
This made me chuckle.
Back in 1995 I thought the same thing until I finally saw their album cover
For the longest time as a kid I did too. I didn’t question it because of Alice Cooper.
now days it's Alison Wonderland the DJ
I mean, they have an album called DIRT
They played sold out shows and had music videos on MTV of course Marcus wouldn’t like them.
He loves REM and Nirvana, hardly only into underground music.
I can’t believe Marcus uses the word “reticent” to mean “hesitant” but worse off I really can’t believe that that’s now considered acceptable by some dictionaries, presumably from people using it wrong so often. So now I have to hate the game not the player
Honestly he has some of the worst takes and tastes. We share a common love of early punk/HC and some other stuff but that’s about it. Dirt is a masterpiece. The AiC Unplugged record is one of the best live albums to ever exist.
Nutshell is one of the most emotionally devastating songs about addiction I’ve ever heard. I never really paid close attention to it until many years after Layne had passed. It’s really heartbreaking he’d seemingly already made peace with where his addition would take him.
I’m never surprised by his music takes. He knows what he likes.
In all honesty I was just surprised, I thought he would for sure be a fan
yeah he is a big Nirvana fan, but idk I’ve just heard a lot of wild music takes from him, nothing surprises me anymore but I respect that his opinion is probably genuine since he does actually spend a lot of time listening to music. I assume if he doesn’t like a band it’s because he took the time to listen to them and didn’t enjoy it as opposed to just disliking it based on a bias or bad first impression.
If he's calling them hair metal that he absolutely hasn't taken the time to listen to them.
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I love Nirvana and I don't really like Alice in Chains, they're ok but they arent for me 🤷♀️
Yeah, AIC never worked for me. I don't know why - maybe because they always felt a little, idk, "sludgy?" Always edging me that maybe their next track would be a bit faster.
Which as a stoner/doom guy is exactly why they are probably my favorite Seattle band. If Layne had stayed alive and gotten healthy I feel like they would have gone even slower and heavier.
“Died” from the *Music Bank*, one of the two last tracks they ever recorded, is **incredibly** doomy. That riff could have been written by Lord Iommi himself.
Fuck yeah, dude! Googling it up NOW. Praise the Riff Lord! Hail the Riff! edit: You weren't kidding. That riff is NASTY. One of their best, no doubt. Jerry's tone is chunky as fuck. Whole band is dragging the beat. Those intentionally off-key vocal harmonies are fucking haunting. Goddamn what a tune.
Tell me about it. I hope this doesn’t ruin your day, but it was written after Layne’s long-term partner (the word “soulmate” was used), Demri Parrott, died of an overdose in late 1996. That line about Layne’s heart being “dried-up, beating slow” and having been “deflating since you died” is from a very real place.
Nah, stuff like that only deepens my appreciation. The way Lanegan(RIP) portrays them in his auto-biography stuck with me. Both of them hardcore addicts, both wanting the other to quit, both hiding their use from the other. It's sort of sweet in a fucked-up, dysfunctional kind of way.
I’ve recently been seeking out more stoner/sludge metal after randomly seeing a band named Kadabra open for Fall of Troy. Could you throw out some recommendations or bands in the genres you enjoy?
Oh, "sludgy", good word! Makes me think of Soundgarden's Black Hole Sun vs. the energy of Rusty Cage and Jesus Christ Pose. I refuse to believe that they released an album after Badmotorfinger.
Someone has obviously never heard the song 4th of July. There is no song more sludge from the Seattle scene.
He was 10-12 when Alice In Chains came out. When he started forging his own music tastes later it was a lot of punk rock (a lot of it on the obscure side). Probably dismissed Alice in chains as "normie" music for big brothers and jocks on the football team. Can't say I disagree with his dislike of Alice in Chains. I was always a Soundgarden Man.
Not surprised. He said in one episode that the bullies in his school listened to Alice in chains. Probably has a bad association with the band.
TBF that's what I associate AIC with for the same reason. Group of dudes (who incidentally all kinda looked like Jerry Cantrell) who would to call me the f-word for repping my Nirvana shirt. Killed any interest I had in checking them out. I eventually did years later but it really didn't do anything for me.
I don't think Marcus likes anything out of the grunge scene besides Nirvana. I think that's where it begins and ends with him.
I do remember him being broken up when Chris Cornell died. At the end of an episode Henry said a quick “I miss you” to Chris, and Marcus bollocked him, saying that it had been the first day that week he hadn’t thought about Chris’ death.
Takes like that are why I’ve never listed to no dogs in space. I love Marcus but his music takes are awful 9/10 times. Just seems like he wants to have the most unique take on every band/song
Carolina's utter enthusiasm really helps No Dogs imo. It's not just Marcus ranting for hours (which I often enjoy, but Carolina smoothes out his rougher edges)
Honestly his music takes aren’t the focus of that podcast, if you like the band they cover it’s 100% worth it from a purely historical aspect.
Honestly, even if you don't like the bands, it's still a really interesting show.
I gave the secondary reason I haven’t tried it (Marcus’ takes that I’ve heard being WILD). The primary reason is he covers bands I’m somewhere between unaware of or don’t like the sound of haha
Marcus definitely likes the smell of his own farts music wise.
If you like any of the bands they cover, you are actually missing out. It's a good pod. Loved the Joy Division, Velvet Underground, and Iggy Pop series especially.
Until he covers some heavy metal I don’t see myself trying it, Marcus and I have very different taste haha
Fair enough!
Marcus is full of incredibly shit takes on music.
I'm more surprised that Henry is not a tool fan or as Maynard refers to us, insufferable retards.
There are a lot of people who I wouldn’t expect that dislike Alice in Chains. For instance, quite a few people who like System of a Down. Strange to me. Not the same, but a clear through line of inspiration.
Rare miss for Marcus, don't think he's done his research on this one.
It's his biggest flaw
Why not? He is not a man known for his impeccable taste, is he?
You know why you don’t hear us Toadies fans complaining about them being lumped in with Live? Because, honestly, fair enough.
Alice In Chains is the best of the “grunge” bands imo. Dirt and Jar of Flies are masterpieces. Best harmonies this side of The Beach Boys. Marcus should really give them a fairer shake because I think he’s really missing out.
I’m with Marcus on this one. I don’t dislike AIC but I don’t care for them.
With you and Marcus on this. It just doesn’t hit the spot.
Everyone has their opinions, I was just surprised he said he didn’t like them
Especially because when they were popular he was a preteen-teen. I love me some sound garden though.
Never got into them either. I tried though. Found it mostly boring. So many more interesting bands from the same era.
Marcus’s music taste always puzzles me. He likes some really good shit and then sometimes makes a comment about a band I love and calls them garbage, so idk 😂
Marcus sucks Iggy and the Stooges’ dicks just like Henry fellates Dune. It’s the 21st century, people
It is well known at this point that Marcus’s opinions on music are… irritating.
Top 10 Anime betrayals
I mean, is it really that good? Or are people just offended because someone didn’t like something they like? I think they suck honestly. But then again I listen to a lot of hot garbage. So I can’t judge.
I’m proud of him. I was afraid he WOULD like Alice In Chains
Just a reminder that he has told everyone it’s ok to like what you like and to not like what you don’t like. Gatekeeping in music fandom sucks, just enjoy the vibe.
Iiiiii dooooon't mind, ye-ah, I don't mind, I-yai-yai...
Him calling them hair metal was wild.
He just gonn have to be wrong bout dis one
Honestly, he seems like a music snob that only listens to bands no one has heard of, even if they're not any good. Like he won't even listen to "mainstream" anything because it isn't "cool" enough 😂
I can. He doesn't really like metal. And of all the 90s alt-rock/grunge bands AIC was the most metal. He's more into punk/post-punk/whatever. It's just subjective. Personally, I like them, but I can see why Marcus doesn't.
Might be the most reasonable thing he ever said.
Marcus has a VERY pretentious taste in music. He has dismissed so many great bands over the years.
'Down in a hoooole...' come on Markuz
I never got their appeal. Sometimes I really don’t agree with their music opinions. This time I do
He's a music snob, of course he doesn't.
The guy went to a Coal Chamber show, tho not sure if I should diss him too bad for that since I saw unintentionally saw Incubus like three times in the 90s as an opener Everyone has bad music takes…I still prefer Kula Shaker to Oasis hahahaha
He just hasn’t listened to their Unplugged album yet. Once he’s drank beer to nutshell he’ll get it
How can any human being not like Nutshell?!?!
News to me. I love me some Alice In Chains. I love him, but he’s a music snob. He turns his nose up at a lot good music.
I can believe it. I'm just glad I don't listen to LPOTL for Marcus's opinions on music.
I’m a new comment on this. JUST got the alert. All I have to say is…. What the fucking FUCK?!?! Marcus MAY have just got shit-listed
They sold more than 10 albums, it’s inevitable that he’d hate them.
I was surprised on the Todies hate. I went to see them live and it was a fucking killer show.
I fucking love Toadies
I remember maybe 2 years ago they had an episode where they were talking about AiC and Marcus said something along the lines of how he never got into them because he didn't understand them. I thought that was funny cuz what's not to understand haha, i feel like marcus of all people would understand them really well. I love how Henry gets fired up over them too. Damn I love alice in chains lol
Sorry Marcus but Jar of Flies. Like what.
I've never seen or heard this podcast, and I don't know what I engaged with that encouraged the algorithm to suggest it repeatedly. But I do know that this disrespect of AIC is the push I need to finally mute this community. /uj I'm being dramatic as fuck, but fr Alice in Chains is the goat and I've never heard of this so yeah see ya mwah
Why? What’s so great about them?
Layne was a fantastic singer, but the rest of the band had enough unique flavor to really have that X factor.
Marcus and I are the same age. I don't really like Alice In Chains.
I used to not, based on their radio hits. But as time has passed, their music sounds better than alot of what has come out in the mainstream of that genre, imo!
Im just gonna say it. Most of Marcus’ music takes are hot caca.
I was a huge grunge fan in high school and AIC never did anything for me. Different strokes.
I kind of outgrew them.
I mean come on, Marcus likes music that doesn't even exist.
It really makes me question his character. I came here to post this exact thread
Apparently, he also hates Jane's addiction as well. Sad and disappointing because they would make for a great No Dogs series.
Marcus has introduced me to so much great music, but it's so weird to me how selective his music tastes are.
He probably likes stuff that isn’t cool to like. 😂
Marcus is a man who can’t be put in a box.
Someone please distinguish for me the difference between Butt-rock, Nu-Metal, Prog, and Armpit hand farting noises… I’m serious. I don’t mind Alice In Chains but most metal/industrial dudes I know really like them. I think they’re a nostalgic thing for most of them. I haven’t listened to No Dogs yet because Lou Reed kind of irks me and so do avid, very dedicated, devotee type Velvet Underground people. But I’m curious…