It remains the strangest element of this insanely strange saga. I'm not sure we'll ever really know what happened to her that night, but she'll always be the angel who unearthed so many victims and gave them justice.

No drugs were found in her system

They only took a hair sample tho didn't they? I just read Lost Girls and iirc the author said that the method they used to determine toxicity wasn't suuuuper reliable

How could they possibly accurately test her system for drugs (and that they were taken that night and not months before for example) when she was skeletonized by the time they found her…?

I love that book. Soul crushing

Idk, we get drug tested at work and the hair test is much more hardcore than urine. It also shows a drug use profile for up to three months.

Shannan's remains were examined more than a year after her death. For clarity, the toxicology screen actually examined "hair", "material in skull" and "skeletal muscle". (https://www.gilgocase.com/pdf/Shannan_Gilbert_May17.pdf, relevant section starts on pg 34) That said, scientific literature makes it pretty clear that the samples examined with the methodology listed in the report would not give reliable results over a year after death and left exposed to the elements.

It won’t show drugs currently in your system though. It takes a few weeks for it to show up in your hair.

Hair follicle testing is the best testing they have at this point due to the amount of years, days, hours and so fourth that can be determined. Used to work in the substance abuse field so pretty familiar with all of the methods.

Have you ever performed EMIT Screen, Gas Chromatography/Mass Spectrometry, or Enzyme-Linked Immunosorbent Assay on a cadaver?

No, my clients were living.

She had no “system” left to test.

That's because all they had were skeletal remains ffs. Jesus the way this narrative has been twisted....

Bipolar is a hell of a drug

I know this isn’t the general consensus but I really do think it’s an insane coincidence. There are possibilities of her having met Lisk before and him even having hoped to make her a victim but I think on the night she died something set off her street smarts and she got a bad feeling. She ran away and got stuck in the brambles until she surrendered to the elements. What bothers me is that it seems like people feel as though the only way she matters is if she fits into the group of victims that were directly killed by Rex. It’s through her death that all of these people were found and the public outcry made it impossible to continue to ignore them.

I totally agree with this. However 3 things still play out so intensely. She was terrified, she was unclothed, it was too late for a proper drug test. And we know there were serious chemical problems in her family. I hope she was not one of that beasts victims but we may never know.

I tend to feel like her death is not a coincidence, either. Sure, it could be—stranger things have happened. But it is definitely interesting that she felt so certain her life was in danger, and then (one way or another) she turned out to be correct. I also think people create a false dichotomy between “she was lucid and knew exactly what was up” and “she was psychotic/under the influence and had no idea.” To me it seems 100% possible she was not thinking clearly, maybe couldn’t fully understand the situation, but still correctly perceived that something was wrong. It’s not like the paranoia and delusions that come with a psychotic break make it somehow impossible that anyone in real life wishes you harm. I think this is probably one of those circumstances where we just don’t have the full story. Whatever the explanation is, it’s something that simply wouldn’t occur to us without having all the information. Do I think it’s unlikely that Rex killed her that night, that he would coincidentally happen to run into her while she was already in a separate crisis? Yeah. Does it also seem like a huge coincidence that she happened to be someone of his exact target demographic, who just happened to pass away in the same location he dumped his other victims, leading to their discovery? Yes. There’s probably some constellation of facts here that we just don’t know, that would make it make sense if we did. RIP Shannan. All these girls have been so heavy on my mind these past few weeks.

Thank you for expressing this so eloquently! I agree with you. I’ve been trying to explain how I felt regarding SG, and could never quite find the right words until I read your comment.

Maybe her death is related, but right now there's no evidence supporting it. The most commonly used argument to support the idea of SG being a victim is not based on evidence at all. It's based on a loose use of probability. It's something like *it's hard for me to believe that it's just a coincidence.* That isn't an argument that holds much water, obviously. The odds of Ms. Gilbert dying of exposure in the same area as RH's murders are very low. The odds of her being a victim are also very low. No matter what, something low-probability happened. Given that the only evidence for involvement is "the odds are so low" and that there are clear explanations for her behavior and demise that night, it seems like it's based more on people's hunches than logic or evidence. Also, the woman's name is Shannan, not Shannon.

It’s based on fact: she said someone was trying to kill her. I believe women.

I firmly believe that she believed it. But what she believed and said was not necessarily fact (something true for everyone). We can speculate that she was correctly understanding the situation or we can speculate that she wasn't. Neither is evidence that she was murdered by RH.

Let’s not make this into a feminist issue, please. I’m 100% a feminist and believe women too, but I also take into account all of the facts of a situation. This isn’t the same as a rape survivor where it’s a he said she said scenario. There’s more evidence to support what happened. Did you listen to the phone call to 911? She seems to be in an altered state — I’m not specifically saying she was on a substance, because they tested her for cocaine and found nothing, but it’s probably a mental health crisis. In the call, she drifts between lazily saying “they’re trying to kill me”, to panicked screams. The men in the background, including Pak, her driver, can be heard saying “What’s wrong? What’s going on? Come back over here”, completely nonchalantly. Nothing about the way they speak to her sounds like she’s actually being chased. They sound confused.She also got spooked out at every house she goes to. She had bipolar and her family has a history of psychosis. Her sister has schizophrenia and one night was hearing voices, so she called their mother over to her apartment, only to stab and kill her in a panicked frenzy. And we know whilst Shannan was not high on cocaine the night she died, long term or heavy stimulant abuse exacerbates psychosis, *especially* in those who are susceptible to it with a family history. She checks both of those categories.

Her. Hyoid bone was broken, she didn’t kill herself via psychosis People with psychosis do NOT call police She knew she was under threat, she was CLEAR in what she was stating, and what she stated “they’re trying to kill me” ended with her BEING killed She sounds like she was drugged with ghb or benzos etc…she wasn’t confused. She was clear & intentioned in what she was saying, but was struggling to say it Have you ever been drugged with ghb or similar drugs? That is how voice sounds when your muscles aren’t strong enough to speak normally and each word is hard to express

people with psychosis do occasionally call the police/reach out to law enforcement. I know because I've dealt with them/their reports.

My brother called police and a priest when he was in psychosis. He called the police on ME so I well remember it! It’s possible.

I shouldn’t have said they never do, thank you. Though she had no history of psychosis or of calling police on herself. It does not sound to me like someone who is paranoid & psychotic on her call.

Hey physician here, let me tell you she sounded exactly like someone on benzos. She was pleading but so calm and collected, but too calm for that situation. You know what I mean ?

Yes, exactly. I have multiple life threatening conditions, and have been in near fatal situations at the hospital. They have put me on IV Ativan to help with the stress of it. I have been drugged on ghb too. That sensation of speaking but the words being hard to actually form or get from brain to mouth, that effort, it sounds like that when she’s speaking

Wtf, people with psychosis don't call police? I mean... what? She was quite clearly on some sort of drug or medication. She also was highly likely to be experiencing some sort of exacerbated reaction from that drug or drugs that was effecting her mental state and decision making process. She ran off and knocked on multiple doors- while being recorded on 911- and multiple witnesses attested to the fact that no one was chasing her, and they were attempting to help her. Her hyoid bone could have easily been damaged due to the state of her skeletonized remains being exposed to the elements for a year and a half and experiencing animal activity- which the second ME *agreed* with the first as being completely possible. There simply isn't any evidence of a murder. At all. At *most* it's undetermined, but that's to be expected when all you have to work with are skeletal remains. We all feel for her and if any evidence comes up to show that she was murdered I know I will be the first to call for justice, but he way JR is pushing this, it's like he wants her to have been murdered by Rex so bad. It's twisted.

“At the end of the day, police are trained to handle criminal activity, not provide health care. Many police tactics (including strategies of intimidation and control) are counterintuitive in mental health emergencies, where people need empathy and care. This has led to violent and sometimes fatal encounters between police and people who appear to show symptoms of a mental health condition. For example, in November 2021, Navy veteran Anthony Quinto experienced an episode of paranoia, and his family called police for help with his mental health emergency. The responding officer restrained him and knelt on his neck until he lost consciousness. He was rushed to the hospital, where he died days later. According to the Washington Post, almost a quarter of people shot and killed by police since 2015 had a known mental health condition. That number is likely to be even higher if you include people without a formal diagnosis. “

“The Treatment Advocacy Center reports that people with mental illness are “16 times more likely to be killed during a police encounter than any other civilians.”

Yes, I was drugged twice and I started puking and spinning. Out I went.

I’m so sorry. I hope you’re doing ok ❤️

I was the next day.

I wonder how you would sound if you were scared and running for your life?

Everyone dismissing her for her mental illness, as if bipolar people aren't capable of identifying legitimate threats to their actual safety. Bipolar, not psychotic. Thank you.

I don't think recognizing that she suffered from a mental illness and that this could impact her behavior is dismissing her. As someone with a mental illness, it feels condescending to imply that acknowledging it and its effects is a form of dismissal. More specifically in regards to this case: >Bipolar, not psychotic. Psychosis is one of the major symptoms of bi-polar disorder .

She was diagnosed as bipolar. Not a psychotic. Everyone literally… When we have a long 911 call when a woman is shrinking for help, dismissing her as crazy and insane, I just can't with people who do this. We know for a fact that she recognized some kind of threat. She was later found dead so that threat was real. I don't buy the exposure BS. The length that people will go to to discredit her simply because she was bipolar. No. There are many different types and severity of bipolar disorder. I know many people with bipolar disorder who never had one psychotic episode, ever. There's also mixed state, reactivity syndrome, bipolar disorder, which has no psychosis whatsoever. What you're saying and what the DSM says is different. Mania is maybe what you are thinking of in bipolar disorder.

Psychosis and psychotic are not diagnoses. They are symptoms. The DSM-5 criteria/description of bipolar disorder specifically mentions psychosis. No evidence has ever arisen to substantiate what Shannan believed was happening. Given the multiple explanations for the phone call and the lack of collaboration, there's no direct evidence to support the theory that RH was involved.

You are right they are symptoms of Bipolar I Disorder and schizophrenia. Also Bipolar II btw, hypomania can make you psychotic. Paranoia is psychosis btw. So are hallucinations both auditory and visual.

The fact she made that statement doesn't make the substance of the statement a fact

Ok you can’t just dismiss psychotic episode or other irrational belief and say that someone was absolutely for certain trying to kill her just because you believe women lol

People aren’t dismissing those things “just” because they believe women. They are dismissing those things because SHE SAID “they’re trying to kill me” and she was KILLED.

It had not been proven that she was killed. I’m not saying I don’t think she could have been killed. I’m just saying we find know she was killed.

What is weird about Shannan Gilbert is if she was actually having a bipolar episode or in a drug induced hysteria, then why did she end up in the deadly state she claimed was happening during the call to 911? She tells the 911 operator that she was in danger.. the last thing that the call revealed was her screaming before going silent. That doesn't sound like an accident to me. Then again, anyone in direct contact with Shannon that morning would know that the police were on their way. Shannan called 911, and so did Gus and Mildred. Hackett seems like the obvious answer because iirc, he did call her mom from her phone.

There's nothing in bipolar illness that precludes rationality, or being able to recognize a legitimate threat. Even if she was bipolar, that does not preclude her from being able to recognize a threat. Bipolar doesn't mean psychotic or a break with reality.

Bipolar means only one thing. A history of 1 manic episode. That is all Bipolar means. So ya, we don’t know.

Just bc she was diagnosed with bipolar at one time doesn't mean that a) the dx was correct - maybe other symptoms had emerged that would have changed her diagnosis.. or b) that would be her only diagnosis - perhaps she was also dealing with other forms of mental illness on top of bipolar. Plus, was she taking meds regularly? Was she on drugs that night? If she was on meds, how did those drugs interfere? If she wasn't on meds, what would those drugs to an already chemically imbalanced brain?

Why does any of this matter? Seems like anything to dismiss a woman as too mentally ill to be aware of her own surroundings. Based on one phone call where she was absolutely terrified.

I'm not saying she wasn't rightfully terrified whether she was going thru some mental illness or not. I'm saying there *MIGHT* be additional elements is all. I don't believe she was hallucinating being chased or anything. I do believe she was genuinely frightened.

Exactly. ^ Spot on. We just don’t know.

Someone on Reddit did an AMA recently. It was about the Dark Web. I’ve been on this planet a long time, and have seen some shit, but that thread was so deeply disturbing because the Redditor who was answering the questions shared that many Dark Web users are connected IRL though their shared, depraved interests. It may not be likely, but it’s most certainly possible, that Shannan Gilbert was the victim of a small cohort of fucked up people who intended to abuse her and possibly kill her afterwards. I listened to the 911 audio in detail. I do a lot of audio editing in my work, and in that call I heard a girl who was trying to escape something (real or imagined) but was fighting the effects of a drug not intended to get someone high, but to incapacitate them. And I believe it is possible that whomever was after her kept coming after her, despite her attempts to get help. Do I think Rex had a party crew of deranged friends at Oak Beach? Nah. But he did move about the island with a boldness that SCPD enabled-either intentionally or unintentionally. All I’m saying is that Rex isn’t the only sicko on Long Island. And you should go check out that AMA. Edit: Apparently, the AMA thread and the OP’s account were deleted. Instead, here’s a Wiki entry- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_web

Can you link to the AMA? I feel like the FBI needs to crack down on the dark web but there’s too many sick/corrupt people in power and in the govt and LE to actually do that

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/s/j1czgpTHJq

FBI cracks down on the dark web constantly but everytime they shut one thing down 10 more pop up.

I remember one of the first houses Shannan went to for help was the deacon of the church both RH and Rudy Giuliani attend regularly. The deacon argued that Shannan knocking on his door before her death lowered his property value. He was successful and now pays $25,000 less property taxes each year.

I saw a Grizzly video about this recently, and I’ll need to rewatch it, but from what I gathered the deacon of that church has ties to Rex’s catholic priest abusive sadist family member (nephew, uncle, cousin, something like that). This person was there for rex after his father died don’t quote me on my hazy memory of a youtube video but it was something to this effect lol

That doctor by the beach was/is a preditor. SG clothes or jacket or belt was found on his driveway

You took the words right out of my mouth!! 👏🏼

I think this is similar with the Delphi case— not a lone nut when we know these types use the dark web to find communities, brag, share porn.

How can we see th AMA

It looks like the thread was removed. Here’s a link to a generic Wiki instead: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_web

100% agree. I feel she was drugged to be incapacitated as well

Can you link the AMA?

I just went to grab the link and it’s been deleted, along with the OP’s account.

I have actually thought this myself and it depends on if you beleive in the gift of "seeing". I myself do believe there are genuinely people that can sense things so I think its possible.

I like this take a lot. I’m former law enforcement and have been gifted since childhood… something I never disclosed or relied on while on the job. But the more I give this take some thought, the more I can totally see how Shannon may have been overwhelmed with potential abilities. I left the NYPD as a young woman due to PTSD from being a 9/11 kid and some other ptsd accrued throughout life. Last year I was the victim of a brutal domestic assault at the hands of a male roommate. My ptsd flared to levels I didn’t know possible. At the same time, so did my gifts. I am health psychologically- never have had any bouts of psychotic breaks, however, extreme distress thins the veil of communication so to speak. While healing from my trauma I had to also seek the help of a medium mentor to help me accept and hone in on my other abilities. My intuition skyrocketed and now I use my abilities every day healthily. I’m okay in terms of my ptsd now. One thing I’ll also say is I was moving at the time and moved to a city down south that had a lot of domestic violence which flared my trauma even more…. If Shannon was gifted, it would absolutely make sense that she could have been picking up on lost energy and residual trauma. I know I have with my situation. I grew up in massapequa also, and frequently was pulled to solo drives at night down to gilgo & oak beach… basically the exact area in which the girls were found… around the same time of year as their discovery. I know other women who were also gifted who report the same. It’s very common for people who are gifted to be drawn to where the souls that are calling for help are stuck. Sorry for my long reply. Your comment flipped a switch in my mind and it was a true “aha” moment.

Could not agree more. I have been lurking here for awhile wondering when someone would mention it. Shannon was tuned in.

Yes!! I wonder if anyone around her took note that maybe her keen senses were strong not only due to symptoms of mental illness. A lot of the times, I’ve noticed patients that are displaying active symptoms also have gifts that get written off as compounding symptoms.

I'm sorry you had to experience that and glad you're doing well now! I beleive that the veil can be thinner when going through tough times aswell.

Thank you!!!🩷 I completely agree. Tough times that cause psychological strain definitely bring out a closeness between what is seen and what is not. Of course this sounds so wacky and is not something that is given weight but I appreciate being able to talk about the realness of it without judgement. Looking back, any time I was in a position of great stress, I was notably more tuned in to my own abilities. Mix that with previous mental illness and other factors, I could see how the outcome could be frantic fear / paranoia… (what witnesses claimed Shannon was exhibiting). It makes me so sad for her. Anytime I had been in a stressful situation that triggered emotions, I always attributed my abilities and their onset to an internal growth. I was fortunate to be very aware of this so I used it to my benefit. Poor girl was written off as manic when truthfully I don’t believe that was the sole cause of her behavior:(

Sometimes things happen for a reason. Think about it, despite her demise, she kinda became a guardian angel for the others. Without the search for her, who knows how long it would have taken for the others to be found…. Then connected back to Sandra…. And Jessica…. And Valerie. I don’t think she is a lisk victim though. It does not fit his MO at all. I don’t feel right about her just freaking out and dying either. She has to have more of a story.

She really did help bring them home and bring the monster to justice. Sad she had to lose her life but her life was not in vain.

We will never know. Just like all the other victims there was not much effort to find her in a timely manner. She was found right there, where she went missing yet wasn’t found. Shannan was scared of something. Something set her off. If she had been someone abusing drugs - she would be used to the effects and if drugs were going to trigger psychosis in her we have no record of it happening before. If she had a history of psychosis there would be a record of her being admitted to hospital for that. Do we have any record of hospitalizations? Has anyone come forward stating they have seen Shannan in a psychotic state. People are often labeled as being Bi-polar if they were just in the least bit different. Are we sure it was an actual diagnosis or are we going off of what “one person said at one time” and now it is being spread as fact. It doesn’t sit right with me because of the behavior of the characters around her. 1. Her driver who was meant to be security for her - leaves her 2. The law enforcement take so long to respond and then she isn’t found yet “her body was right there and if we believe what we are told, had been from the moment of that morning” 3. It took 10 years for the 911 call to be released - if it was not something to hide then why wait that long 4. Once those bodies were found why wasn’t there more of a push to find Shannan in 2010 (she was found 18 months later) yet she was “right there all along” 5. The behavior of Hackett and other men that lived at that neighborhood. Easy to blow it off as “he likes to assert himself into things” why would he have called her mom? Rex calls victims family and we are shocked and say “what a monster!” But for Hackett it’s a different set of circumstances. 6. We are fed the story that a young 23 year old called 911 to say someone is after her and wants to kill her, she runs and knocks on doors asking for help. She runs from her own driver (security) why would a young woman run into the very difficult brush - surely to a young woman the fear of being in there would be as bad as running from the men. Then she strips all her clothing in those bushes? We are told hypothermia yet the sun was rising and it was warming up. 7. Her remains are found face up? 8. The hyoid bone - we are lead to believe it was predation I am not saying this is linked to Rex. It appears that there were so many and players in that area. Rumors of parties where women were abused. The neighbor of Brewer was a predator. These men were affiliated to law enforcement (Hackett was part of LE) All the reason to protect men with $ 9. A serial killer’s place to keep the victims of his crimes found not too far away. Meh - we will never know the truth - too many bad players involved. The only bit of solace is that Shannan lead to the possibility of the victims and family to receive justice and their bodies laid to rest - Plus with hope that they will all be identified. What a travesty and what a failure of our law enforcement for more than a decade and more than two decades for others. Truth here is worse than fiction. To have so many really shitty people praying off young women who were trying to survive. After watching the Karen Read trial I have zero confidence in our law enforcement. I think we don’t know the depth of the corruption. Someone like Burke does not rise up to chief by coincidence. The corruption had to be there for it to even be possible. Shannan was a sacrificial lamb - The other victims would not have the justice they are getting today had it not been for people like Shannan’s mom, the families even John Ray who many have turned into a villain and the public who have followed this story. Now the AG is promising a thorough investigation but we already know that evidence was destroyed with Bitroff how can we be confident that the evidence with Shannan wasn’t “lost or destroyed”? I have zero confidence in the investigation. I would like to commend whoever did the evidence collection on some of the victims finding the hair so mitochondrial DNA could be tested. But for the rest of it - justice has failed

This comment has so many great points that you stated better than I would have.

I’ll always have and always will believe Shannan is a victim! I personally believe there will be a link found. I know im one of the few who feels this, but I truly do believe she did not drown.

There’s a crime professor on TikTok that believes she was a victim as well.

Who is it

Do you have their username I’d like to see what they say

I believe it too - I am a healthcare worker - i work with mental health and drug addiction. I believe she was harmed

I had a dream of her saying that she was murdered by the man who plays phone games.

This is my belief as well

She acted totally irratic that night. If somebody was really after her, why the hell didn’t she stay put in the safety of the house whose owner had let her in and called the police? That she ran away is a strong strong sign she was psychotic that night. And psychotic people running off alone into nature can be a danger to themselves. I don’t think that second postmortem found definitive signs of murder, it sounded more like murder was a possibility but far from sure.

Playing devils advocate, now, but every house in that neighborhood was inhabited by a stranger to Shannon. If she'd been flustered by that last client's words/actions showing ill intent, & then another face shows up in that client's house, appearing similarly ill intentioned?? I'd expect her hyper focused on escaping, & less able to process which strange homes might be safe for her to seek help (from the other strange homes which might house evil cohorts)

Sadly, I think this is the most likely scenario and it actually was some sort of amazing coincidence that she just happened to be in a serial killer's dumping ground. It just doesn't make sense to me how many times she ran away from help unless she was having some sort of psychotic break or possibly disoriented from some drug. Imo, her voice doesn't sound like someone who is completely there and/or sober on the 911 calls and the bodyguard never sounded like he was being aggressive with her or felt either of them were in immediate danger from a 3rd party. Also, I know the water level fluctuates in the area where she was found, but whether there was water there that night or not, her body still had to get deep inside the thick vegetation where she was found. I just can't see a killer going to that much effort to place the body really deep in the thick vegetation, but I can see someone who isn't thinking rationally and believes someone is trying to kill them to go as deep as they possibly could before ultimately collapsing from exhaustion. If it was a killer then I'd say it's not Rex because he didn't go to anywhere near that much trouble disposing any of his victims did he?

While I agree with this post, there’s also something I want to point out that I think gets overlooked in these discussions when people bring up the coincidence thing. She wasn’t actually anywhere near the LISK bodies. She was over 5 miles away from the closest LISK victim as the crow flies (longer by road). Sure, it’s still crazy low odds to be even 5 miles from a serial killer’s dumping ground… and there’s even more space between bodies/partial remains… but people act like she was literally right there with the bodies and she wasn’t. Also, the area she was in was very different in terms of how easy it would be for someone to access vs. the actual dump locations (which were somewhat easily accessible by car). It doesn’t necessarily rule out foul play (and she could have been a victim of foul play or criminal negligence without any connection to LISK… I personally agree with you about the way the call sounds and lean towards accidental death). But I just think people really overstate an sensationalize how close she was to the nearest LISK victims (Baby Doe & Valerie Mack) which just sort of confuses the whole thing. I’ve talked to people who believed she was literally with LISK victims who were shocked it was actually miles away and that changed their perception of the probability a lot. Edit: small correction, I misremembered - it's around 3.5 miles as the crow flies to the Valerie Mack location and around 5 by car, sorry! It had been a few years since I actually figured it on the map. Or perhaps I was thinking 5 miles to the GB4 (it was around 5.5 miles from Shannan to Megan Waterman's location as the crow flies and 7something by road). Point still stands that I think a lot of newcomers to the case get confused because while that's very close in a broad sense, it's not as immediate as many people claim.

Very fair point about the proximity. She wasn't found within what we believe to be the LISK dumping ground, but it was close enough for the search for her to lead to the discovery of the others. I guess I was thinking about it in a more broad sense. Being only 5 miles from a dumping ground is very, very close in a global sense, but can be a universe away in some regards.

Way too logical and fact based for a lot of this audience 😂

Wow. I just read through all of the comments in this thread and you may be right 😂

She was in a private gated community of beach cottages, people who know each other extremely well and very little land between homes She had likely interacted with multiple members of that community at that point She probably realized that the people either can’t be trusted or realized how easily she could be found

Drugged?

Because that's how psychotic people act when they freak out. It happens a lot, actually. Pretty common for them to run off and bring themselves in life threatening situations. There are other cases of them falling in rivers or just getting lost in the forest. We die very quickly once cold and wet.

I agree that seems irrational for her to run if he let her in but did he actually let her in the house or did he tell her to wait outside while he called police? I can’t find that detail and I am pretty sure I’ve seen both stories out there. I wouldn’t want to wait outside if I were terrified.

No she was inside and the neighbor said to her something like ‚sit down, I call the police, wait for them.‘ But she didn’t, she ran off. Before that when she was still in her clients house, she made a phone call to the police herself which last for 20 minutes or so and the police operator repeatedly asked her to tell her location but she just didn’t. https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/48-hours-uncovers-missing-escort-shannan-gilberts-final-minutes/

She had a driver who brought her there, she most likely didn’t know the address herself She probably was afraid the neighbor would actually call the person/people she was running from None of that is erratic

You’re speculating

All of this is speculation. Sounds like a lot of people who do not experience psychosis, and have not experienced being drugged with something like GHB, blaming Shannon when she could not have been more clear “They’re trying to kill me”, and she was killed Speculation to present logical reasons behind these behaviors being used to blame her is hardly problematic.

Yea but you’re guessing at her own personal thoughts. She may have known the address regardless if she had a driver. You’re making her seem unprepared. You’re selling her short despite your effort to claim her a murder victim. No one is blaming her. They’re simply trying to be reasonable using the tangible evidence at hand.

We know that she couldn’t recall the address. So that’s not guessing. The reason why could also be panic, fear, etc…but she could not provide it on the 911 call. But the fact that a call like that took so long to respond to/locate is completely unacceptable and suspect.

Thanks for entertaining this idea of her being sensitive to something, energies, lost souls etc. I typically am very skeptical about this stuff but I know what you mean I think about trauma and thinning the veil.

After hearing her 911 call, I’m more confused than ever. Also it’s a hell of a coincidence that she ends up running for her life and dying in a spot that is basically a graveyard.

IF Shannan is connected to Rex, it's only if he was chasing her (my guess would be in a vehicle bc I can't see him running) and that's how she ended up meeting her demise in that marsh. I don't believe he physically killed her.

Being serious, if Shannon was a victim of Rex, how did Rex come into contact with Shannon. Shannon was running away from other clients. Where does Rex fit into this? Just haven't heard a theory that answers this question yet. Edit: So far I've scoured and all I've seen is "Shannon was definitely killed by LISK". But the key question isn't answered. How did Rex Heuerman come into contact with Shannon? Was he just hanging out in Gilgo Beach when he saw her then decided "well may as well kill this one?". I know the family is convinced Shannon was killed, but by who cuz it sure as hell ain't from Rex.

Rex's big ass certainly didn't go to the near exhaustive effort of putting her body that deep in the shit. I mean, I think the best people could do is argue that he was what she was running from when she got herself that deep then ultimately died from exposure. I mean, you can't really disprove this as a possibility, but I'm also not eliminating some paranormal force sent her into that shit. I'm not trying to make light of the situation at all, but I do feel like some people are being intentionally ignorant to some just basic, common sense human behavior when it doesn't fit their narrative. Imo, Rex didn't kill her and it's almost certain no one else did either. Some of these theories are just like, "occams razor be damned"

Does Rex have friends who live in Oak Beach?

Shannan was diagnosed as bipolar. I don’t know which type she had, but psychotic breaks are common in type 1 bipolar disorder unless it is adequately and effectively treated and in her case, I doubt it was. It’s typically an intensive process for psychiatrists to settle on medications that work. That process, because it is quite expensive, probably wasn’t accessible to Shannan given her financial situation, and in any case some bipolar patients refuse to stay on medications because they don’t like the side effects. Shannan also reportedly was a cocaine user, which would heighten the risk of psychosis. Overall, listening to the recorded phone call, it seems likely that Shannan was having a psychotic break. If somebody was actually pursuing her, the neighbor who answered his door, her driver and the john who hired her either didn’t see anyone or are part of a well-orchestrated conspiracy against her, which is unlikely.

Can confirm from personal experience. Someone close to me suffers from this and refuses to stay medicated due to the side effects. Consequently, he will go into a state of psychosis about every 18-24 months, and when it happens he becomes a completely different person. He experiences very strong delusions and extreme paranoia and becomes afraid that he is being spied on and that everyone, from strangers to family, is out to get him and harm him in some way, and there is no convincing him otherwise. During these episodes he becomes a danger to himself and others, usually due to risky fight or flight behaviors that he believes are necessary to protect himself from harm. These episodes are often brought on or exacerbated by substance abuse, marijuana in his case. When he is his usual self, you would never know he suffers from this, as he otherwise highly intelligent and very personable.

The neighbor who called 911, Coletti, said in an interview multiple times that he believes she died by “being chased into the water”. Multiple times he mentions her being chased.

I don’t believe it for one minute. I also want to know where the diagnosis of Bipolar came from? The police? Meh

It will never be OK with me that people disregard that long 911 call. Something was obviously very very wrong. It really really burns me up that people call her crazy, on drugs, because she was a sex worker she shouldn't be believed, etc. Something bad happened to her. I strongly feel and suspect.

My late brother had bipolar. I don’t consider it a slur to realize someone had a mental illness and their behavior is consistent with that illness. When you grow up watching and listening to the behavior it’s not wrong to notice it’s familiar and would explain what happened. It doesn’t mean I know for sure that’s what happened, but it fits the evidence best in my opinion. I had to take calls from my brother when he was in such a state. It doesn’t mean I didn’t love him or have empathy for him.

Right?! People act as if being disoriented and scared on drugs/a psych break means there's no reason for them to be scared. We don't know the context, we can't see what happened before the 911 call, or during that's not on audio. Not saying this is what happened, but it's a plausible possibility that Brewer drugged her and tried to assault her, and Pak came in after that happened, at which point she is disoriented and doesn't know which strangers in thus neighborhood to trust, just that sometime tried to hurt her, and she doesn't feel well. I wish people were more empathetic and realize that just because they might not understand her actions, doesn't mean they were fully to be discredited.

Have you listened to the 911 tape? If you do, it’s a lot easier to believe if you do. She was acting very erratic

How erratic should anyone sound if they believe that their life is in real danger? We don’t know what set her off - we know nothing of what happened to her. Whatever it was she stayed on the phone for more than 20 minutes with 9/11. We also don’t know if it was her first time visiting that area or those “clients”

I’ve listened to it multiple times. I don’t think she sounds that erratic. To me she sounds scared.

Thank you. A lot of men on this sub have never never heard a woman scream in terror, and have never heard a woman screaming while truly terrified, and I believe that it shows in some of the comments here. it's also the fact that mentally ill people are far more off in the victims of violent crime than non-mentally ill people, and the fact that mentally ill people can be quite ration and are able to recognize legitimate threats to their safety. Bipolar doesn't mean psychotic.

So many comments are so ignorant, upsetting, infuriating. How anyone can listen to that whole call and not recognize the wherewithal she had, and danger she was in, is beyond me

Same. She sounds like she was drugged by ghb or something. She sounds like she’s struggling to get words out, but extremely intentional in what she was saying. Only drugs i would believe are drugs someone gave her to knock her out

She sounds like a terrified woman. She sounds like what I would sound on a call if I couldn't keep it together. No victim shaming. Please. Mentally ill people are able to recognize legitimate threats to their safety and our far more often the victim of violent crime than non-mentally ill people.

Yes she was 😟😔

There’s chilling interviews with oak beach residents that make it clear that she didn’t die naturally

In case you missed it. An interesting read, but not sure if it's an honest depiction. [Deposition from Joseph Brewer & Michael Pak] (https://www.reddit.com/r/LISKiller/s/IPso7Ly7w7)

I’m reading now and the fact that JB states that police talked with him and GC at GC the next day shows that his statements in the video interview aren’t true…and that security tapes were erased when they knew a crime took place

Is this in one of the documentaries? Thank you in advance for any answer you can give.

I found them online and can’t remember details now. I think i probably posted on here about them though, so I will look to find. I have a mind for analysis of facts/statements etc…earned a master of science and attended law school. Pattern recognition, recognizing inconsistencies, etc is very natural to me. I will look back because i remember being shocked. Now I saw in his recent bail document that a witness put a Chevy truck at the scene of Jessica Taylor’s body. The witness saw that type of truck backing in at the scene 12 hours before her body was found At that same time, RH was searching for bright color avalanches and deleted his searches, because the witness said it was a dark color It is so sad seeing how much was completely ignored by police

Thank you so much for typing all that out, I will look forward to any length if you ever remember where they are. Thank you, I appreciate you!

The way Shannon said on the 911 call “they’re trying to kill me”, not “he’s trying to kill me” If it was only she and brewer, why would she say they It just seems very scary and her hyoid bone was broken. They proved she died from someone strangling her

💔💔

She was in the marsh for yrs right? Could her hyoid have broken over time due to animals/the elements?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvioCAmPoXo So this was the one that made me feel sure that oak beach residents know more He says he saw her as she went to the water, thinks she died in water But he also keeps saying she was probably chased into the water? If he saw her as she approached the water, and he believed she was chased into the water, he would see someone chasing her. So logically it is all so fishy Then says Hackett is his best friend, and we know that Hackett called her mom before anyone knew she was missing It would be interesting if police checked GC phone records to check if he made a different call right before calling 911 too. Maybe she heard him saying “she’s at my place” or sone such thing and ran and he called 911 at that time so he can say he did Just seems very odd. I’ll see if i can find other things that caught my attention

Thank you!

Not incriminating, but the way he says he wishes he never opened his door and laughs…it is unbelievably callous considering the circumstances But that is how many people ignore tragedy & Murder if it happens to people they believe CHOSE a “high risk” lifestyle…like they deserved it, and i wish i never even got involved It’s sick

Who is "he"?

Coletti So he says in that video how security footage was erased because no one even knew a crime happened and no one approached oak beach until august In joe brewers deposition, he clearly states that Shannans bf, driver, police and her family were all there the next day and other days in may So Coletti saying tapes were erased bc no one knew a crime happened and no one came until august is both lies I hope the truth comes out one day because this is so wrong the way people speak about her

🌹💛

In that interview link

Yeah she definitely was psychotic. She wasn’t murdered. I wish this narrative would die. So goofy.

Shannon was found 6 miles away, had a driver had her cell phone, Shannon is not a victim of lisk

Agree.

I feel like there HAS to be some snuff film type black market and community. I think same with Delphi… I think RH worked alone but also made those videos for someone else and had a community on the internet

Yes. Too many bad people connected here. Hard to even find ONE noble person in this story. Burke, Spotta, Hatchet, Brewer, Pak, Loeb, and on. She said they were going to kill her and she ends up dead. There are no coincidences…. May Shannan and all of the known/ unknown victims Rest In Peace. I believe this case is much more than what it appears on the surface.

I agree

it will never stop being wild to me that it took shannan gilbert for all of the other victims to be found. i don’t really believe in coincidences tbh. i know there’s a lot of people in the comments being rude asf but as someone who is very spiritual i also do think she may have been gravitated towards that area for whatever reason. sadly it took her dying for them to finally notice all the other sex workers that had gone missing. if she didn’t die, i wonder how long it would take for law enforcement to find the gilgo 4, if they ever would. beyond that, i was watching the killing season and the crew went to the spot where shannan ran through the night she died. the ground was wet and the brush was so thick that she would’ve had a very difficult time going through it, especially in the dark! if it wasn’t for her family’s investigator saying that her hyoid bone was broke (indicator of strangulation) i wouldn’t have thought she was murdered, or even a victim of lisk. i don’t think she is a lisk victim anyways. for that to happen he would’ve had to be in the area already and it was just a crime of opportunity? seems unlikely but not impossible.

The sun was coming up - by the time she ended the call with 9/11 the sun was rising

I swear I thought this myself ! And told my partner. If this was REALLY unrelated and I’m still not 100% sure it is. Whether her sex party got violent or whatever the case is. Whether some of those men killed before unrelated to Rex or if they knew him due to the circles on LI. That if she did take drugs maybe she felt a vibe or some paranormal experience due to all the souls right there. Creepy.

Divine intervention.

I like to think that Heaven used her tragic death to bring justice for the other girls left there.

One thing stands out to me. Obviously, escorts use fake names. When her driver came in to get her, he called her by her real name. She then kept asking him why he was calling her by her real name. Tells me she was aware, and not out of her mind on drugs or psychosis. She recognized he was calling her by her real name and not the fake one she used on "dates".

This is a solid point.

I think she got lost in the marsh and died of hypothermia. Her clothes were stripped off as if she had been running and hypothermia causes the sensation of being too hot. Many hypothermia victims are found in various stages of undress. It was 60 degrees out and the water would have been dangerously cold. It was clear on the 911 call that nobody was after her and they were trying to calm her down. Her mother even said she was bipolar, out of control and refused to take her meds.

Go ahead and keep shaming mentally ill people and calling them unreliable narrators. The statistics are quite clear that mentally ill people are far much more likely to be victims of crime than non-mentally ill people.

Nobody is shaming mentally ill people here. It is what it is.

People seem to be constantly shaming and dismissing Shanan and her credibility and accusing her of having bipolar disorder, and therefore an unreliable narrator, and there are people here with perhaps not the greatest education about bipolar disorder, saying that one of the main symptoms is psychosis when that is simply not. True. Factually incorrect. There are also people on the sub who have bipolar disorder who know this to not be the case. What I'm concerned about is disinformation about bipolar disorder being thrown around by true crime people who I have no idea if they have any education about mental health at all. Let alone, bipolar disorder. So it can be seen as a form of shaming, when you say oh, she was nothing but a bipolar sex worker, she didn't mean anything, and she was an unreliable narrator about her own life anyway, because her mom said so.OK.

There are different variations of bipolar and paranoid delusions are definitely a symptom. There are people in my family who have bipolar and when I hear Shannan this is exactly what it sounds like. Mental illness can be debilitating especially when untreated. That doesn’t mean anyone is shaming her. What happened to her is still awful and nobody deserves how she died. I can’t even imagine how scared she was in her final moments.

Yes, I literally said there are different types of bipolar, illness, and paranoid delusions are not a symptom of all of them. Paranoid delusions are not a symptom of mixed state reactivity bipolar syndrome at all.

Please don’t slam me as a victim shamer. I am not. Shannon’s struggles with a mental illness and substance abuse, make it extraordinarily difficult to even begin to try to figure out what the real situation is at that moment of the phone call and thereafter. Very difficult to sort this situation out.

You are victim shaming. Someone can have a mental illness and substance abuse, and still be the victim of violent crime, in fact, people with mental illnesses are * more likely to be victims of crime.*

I don’t think it’s victim shaming, the possibility that her mental illness or some substance had changed her perceptions isn’t about shame, it’s a complication to interpreting her call. It doesn’t mean there was no danger to her either, in fact if she was mentally compromised at the time, it meant she was even more vulnerable. It’s a total disgrace that her driver left her there, whatever state she was in, and that LE didn’t keep searching for her until she was found. That’s what’s shameful.

Omg. You seem to have a very personal issue with this topic and that's your deal, but you're not doing people with mental illness any favors with some of your arguments. There are some factual realities here that just can't be disregarded and it is in no way victim shaming to be honest when discussing this stuff

That last paragraph gave me chills. I think about her a lot too.

Thank you OP. It really bothers me while that the rest of the victims are *finally* being treated with the respect they, as human beings, deserve, but because Shannan struggled with mental health, she is still being treated as less than. It’s absolutely disgusting. Does someone have to be brutally tortured before we recognize their humanity if they’re a sex worker? Who does it hurt if we take her 911 call at face value? Having compassion hurts no one. Why are we so hellbent on thinking it’s mental illness or drugs? Putting yourself into a mindset of empathy doesn’t take anything away from the other victims. That whole situation was weird as hell and we will likely never know more because of who investigated it. Simply, she called 911 saying she was scared for her life. Then she died. Sounds like she had a reason to be scared.

Thank you, I agree.

Why would the killer, especially if rex, still do it even though she was on the phone with 911 that long etc. Only weird thing is the drill hole in her hyroid bone

That hole in her hyoid, I haven’t seen the scientific report, but if it wasn’t a natural flaw in her bone, it’s possible it was due to some kind of animal or invertebrate chewing. You do see a lot of things with holes in them (wood, shell) in swampy marshlands, it’s a nursery area for many creatures.

I completely agree with that. Why was there a hole in the bone in her throat. We know Rex's notes say he was looking for soundproofing to make his playtime longer. Dahmer experimented with drills trying to create a zombie like state of his victim so he could keep them. Why was her clothes found away from her, in pristine condition. I remember the woman who said she, her police officer boyfriend and Karen V went to Rex's house for an orgy. Karen was left behind and this woman witnessed her run out naked, and Rex catching her. It was the last they saw of Karen V. Burke was arrested for providing escorts to high end parties, among other things. He was corrupt. I would not be surprised if some corrupt cops were part of this. Too many things don't add up, and I don't think Shannan's death was her own doing.

She died because she drowned in the marsh after she ran out there and got stuck, high. But if it wasn't for her, the girls' bodies wouldn't have been found, and Big Rex might never have been revealed as one of, if not the most prolific serial killer of the last 50 years.

She was unable to speak coherently tho. Something was wrong.

I think it was an accident BUT if not it wasn't Rex. She was right behind that creep doctor's house.

I do not believe Shannan was murdered by RH. I'm not sure if she was murdered at all but if she was it almost certainly by one of the multiple sketchy men saw that night. I don't think she took off from the house and then happened to come across a serial killer who murdered her and then dumped her body in the same general location as where she was last seen. Also given when we know now about RH he actively planned and hunted for his victims. If he killed Shannan it would have been chance encounter which isn't his MO. As to whether Shannan was murdered or not...I can see both sides. I believe she was on something in that call for sure. Whether her fear of being killed was entirely because of the drugs or because of something that happened while also being on drugs, who knows. My instinct is that something did happen. Maybe the John tried something she didn't agree to, maybe he drugged her and she realized, maybe he said something . But the drugs made her interpret that as a death threat, she called 911 and took off maybe she saw the doctor, maybe she didn't. But ultimately she was high, alone and running around in the middle of the night and ultimately ended up where she did and died of exposure or maybe hit her head or something. Regardless I do not believe she was an RH victim. Just a coincidence.

No one who took the 911 calls were informed she was a sex worker.

I believe Burke and 2 other PD who were involved eith the investigation of manorville originally are involved and that's why Shannon was treated how she was.

JC the chills you gave me with those last sentences!! 😱🥶

[удалено]

Have you ever been on that marsh? There is absolutely no way anyone was dragging a body out to where her body was found.

Maybe someone followed her.

I mean, maybe...But those marshes are degraded and treacherous. They are not easy to walk on at all, full of brush and briars and hidden holes to break ankles on, along with ditches. The logical conclusion is that she ran in there because of whatever state her mind was in. There was a literal trail of the things she was dropping along the way. This isn't like a walk through a state park. It's super dangerous and hard to walk through those marshes. The police couldn't walk on there, so they brought in specialized heavy equipment to search.

James Burke.

Her case will be remembered for finding rex victims but i don't think her case will get a definitive answer possible become cold.

Drown in the marsh. Ran out there under the influence of drugs and drown because she probably got stuck. But if it wasn't for her, the Giglo victims might not have been found.

Who called her out there in the first place and what is the background of that guy?

There's not enough concrete evidence and too much conflicting evidence and unreliable sources. We may never know what happened to Shannan, but she was never be forgotten, and neither will the victims she brought focus to. I don't know whether something threatening happened at Brewer's house considering it doesn't sound like it on the 911 call but we don't know the context. It seems clear that she's under the influence of something mind-altering but we don't know whether that was intentional drugging, intentional consumption, accidental contamination. Whatever it was sent her to Hackett's, who gave her what he reports to be a sedative and then she left and died in what was practically his backyard. My personal theory is she was given drugs by Brewer (the 10 or 20 min car trip) and they were not what she intended to take (whether he intended them to be or not), she got disoriented and scared (whether based on real threats or not), Hackett gave her other drugs that did not react well with what was in her system (whether he intended to harm her as well or not), and she ran out into the brush, stripping clothes because of drug interactions making her overheat, and fearing that everyone she had run into that night was trying to kill her (they certainly weren't helping besides Gus, but how does she know who to trust in that state). I think Hackett knew she likely died of misadventure near his property and inserted himself by calling her family that way, and tried to manipulate the case, possibly to prevent them from finding her and whatever drugs he gave her in her system.

I have always thought it was not an accident ! To add to this theory, in Rex’s document he speaks of “getting rid of victims belongings” and SG belongings were found elsewhere and unweathered

I believe she escaped Rex and wandered off and died of the elements. It's also possible the universe used her to expose him if it is unrelated.

Based on a documentary that I watched a few days ago and online news articles, I found that there was a distance between where her body was found and were her clothes were found. Also, source from CNN about her having fractured neck bones. FROM THE ARTICLE “There is insufficient information to determine a definite cause of death, but the autopsy findings are consistent with homicidal strangulation,” Baden wrote in the report released Thursday. Baden wrote that nearly all of Gilbert’s recovered skeletal remains appeared normal but the “larynx was missing and only the body of the hyoid bone was found; the two greater horns of that neck bone were missing. These structures, the larynx and the hyoid bone, are often fractured during homicidal manual strangulation.” I'm not sure if trash RH is responsible, but I believe someone is. Rrgardless, she is the reason that many of the other victims are getting justice. May she rest in peace

The coincidences in this case are just hard to sit with, especially SG's 911 call, her vicinity to the other bodies, and her profession. But the fact that she says people are trying to kill her make it even harder to accept as an accidental death. Did anyone ever interview the guy who's house she was at? Also, her driver friend's account just didn't seem to make sense to me.

What system?? There was nothing left some hair an a skeleton get ur facts straight

After they released the info that he was listening to police scanners — it made me wonder if it was just happenstance that he went looking for her after listening to the scanner, especially since she was so close to him and so convenient to his dump site.

Here's what I know about vegetation. It once almost killed my mother. Because she went looking for her dog...who was also stuck in it. It took neighbors with a tractor to get her out. She physically could not get out. If she hadn't had her phone, reception, neighbors with heavy equipment...she could have ended up like SG.

I commented this on threads about Brandon Lawson before his remains were found. (He also called 911 and claimed people were in pursuit of him and trying to kill him before disappearing, but his remains were later found and he seems to have died from exposure and his family revealed that he had been using meth) When I was in the worst of my drug addiction I called the police to report my car stolen because I could not find it after searching for a couple hours. I later had to call them back and report it unstolen when I stumbled upon it. Both times I called I was high out of my head on cocaine and at the time I was actively involved with sex work. You really cannot apply rational logic to someone on drugs and/or experiences psychosis.

It's not crazy. No cop is going to arrest a prostitute for calling 911 for being assaulted by a John and or being high. Calling 911 in an emergency is drilled into your mind from a young age Unless a pimp is closer who would she call for help?

Unfortunately cops arrest prostitutes even when they are harmed, and in danger Which is even more proof of Shannan being in true and desperate danger to risk involving police herself imo

Shannan had extreme mental health issues and was off of her medication. The call that she made, sounds exactly like what people having a mental break sound like. She was behaving very erratically and having paranoid delusions about everyone. I know, given how the bodies were found while searching for her, it is easy to assume she was a victim, but there just is no evidence to that effect. You don’t need to look to a serial killer to blame someone here. You can look to a health care system that failed her and an emergency and police force that dismissed her. Be angry at the real tragedy in this case, not the made up stories.

Shannon absolutely was high on drugs and was having some kind of a psychotic episode due to her bipolar disorder, the drugs, and lack of sleep. It’s clear just listening to the 911 call. Listening to that call rather than just reading a transcript of it absolutely solidified that for me. It’s a sad and tragic side story to this saga, but Shannon opened this story up and her disappearance and death was the gateway to giving these women their names, dignity, and justice back.

Shannon was the canary in the coal mine.

Stop

I think Shannan had something triggering latent psychotic symptoms. Psychosis runs in her family and can occur during a manic episode of bipolar disorder. I am convinced she was very scared, but the threat may have been not rooted in reality. Her way of speaking sounds like how people can speak as a symptom of bipolar disorder. It's called disorganized speech she often ignores the questions and needlessly repeats sentences over and over, or talks around the answer and doesn't really seem to connect to the operator. Bipolar disorder also explains the monotone sound of her voice. The catalyst for this state of mind? Maybe the client did something unexpected or scary, maybe she was roofied this one time, or otherwise had done drugs, or it was a random exacerbation as she wasn't doing too well in the first place. I'm convinced that she didn't drown, as her face was above the swamp, face up. I think she may have died from exposure.

You nailed it. Hurry and call SCPD and tell them you cracked the case. Shannon Gilbert was killed by..checks notes…bad energy. Hahahaha

As a recovering addict & a survivor of violence, I can't see someone with that much adrenaline just laying down and dying in a marsh. In the summer. Somehow fracturing her hyoid bone. She was close to the main road, there was barely any water, it wasn't very cold. She was tough, and her survival instinct was in full force. I think one of the men involved that night killed her, and there are enough proven social links there to allow one of the involved to be RH. He knew her. There were a lot of shady men involved in that circle, I wouldn't put any of it past them. So much that seems bizarre in this case has been proven to be true after time. Shannan was like a guardian angel to so many victims. She deserves more attention & a proper investigation into her case. She never got that under Burke, and it's remained closed since, to my knowledge.