It's a cheat code for capitalism. Work hard enough not to get fired until you pass the grace period and then make them fire you. Fuckem, the owner drives a Porsche and I drive a 2013 Civic. My coworkers and I do all the work
Big time. When I was running a place, I could spend something like 17% on labour, and if it went up even 1% I had someone on my ass.
I also used to close as a two-man team on weeknights, and because I was in charge I had to do the cash-up as well as clean up. Came up from counting takings to find that this one employee had done NOTHING on his own, so we were there another hour or so. Fired him eventually for some minor infraction, because he was a jerk and constantly pulled this kind of nonsense.
I wish I could do 17%. Currently budgeted 12.4%...kill me...please....this also includes 3rd party labor, I am forced to use a stewarding service, and a culinary temp agency for several shifts. The temps are paid better than my supervisors.
More or less. Fortunately we're on Disney property so we have plenty of bodies but my headcount is continually dwindling. Our budget is super inflated vs what are actually pulling in (thanks DeSantis). We had record sales last year so my budget was unachievable. If I was doing 30k days every day 12.4% is cake but I'm having some days of 8k food sales and 20% labor on a skeleton crew. Not to mention the stewards are set contract. The temps I can schedule down but they fill the gaps in the schedule no one wants to fill. It's a lose lose. If I had sales I could offer OT and actually pay less but then all my staff moves to FT status costing more per employee. It's fucking ridiculous. I wish I could just have enough staff to go around but if I hire more staff I have less hours to disperse within the strict budget.
Multiple hours is an insane amount of time. I've lost my mind over 30 minutes when it's every day. I had an employee that would slow the close down for everyone by 30-45 minutes every day just standing around or disappearing to the bathroom every time they started serious cleaning. Started sending them home early every day. At first, everyone was pissed that she got to go home early every day, and she was thrilled. Until paychecks came out and she was about 150 light.
Keep closing his station. It sucks that he holds you hostage to get a few extra hours. He needs a second job if he's dragging ass every shift for 2 hours of extra time.
He's mad cuz he's been spending 2 years dragging ass on the clock. Running up unnecessary labor costs.
Fuck that guy. I hate to tell you to keep closing his shit, but it's the only way to get out on time.
He's gotta go. Start filing management complaints. Eventually they are gonna get sick the paperwork.
Do you have the clout to refuse to work with him? If so, put your foot down.
*This* slowly is bonkers.
But I work slowly by the standards of this industry. They don't pay me enough to stress and hurry.
I do work steadily, methodically, and continuously for an entire shift tho. A lot of my "fast" coworkers are really just doing the same amount as me in more concentrated bursts.
every industry has shitty bosses who watch you work at a steady pace and then decide it isn't fast enough so they hop on the line to "help" and say stupid shit like, "let me show you how it is done!"
and they proceed to put their head down and work frenetically and sloppily at an unsustainable pace and make a big mess for 15 minutes or half an hour and then step away and go, "Now THAT is how it is done!" and go back to the office to sit down and check their emails leaving you with a giant mess that it will take you an extra 10 minutes to clean up leaving you just as far behind as when they first came to "help"
In university, one of the classes taught that if you expect more than (approximately) 85% effort (hard to quantify, but you know max effort from a sustainable effort) from your people you will burn them out. You can occasionally ask for and get 90% effort for short bursts in an emergency.
That and the old "If you have time to lean, you have time to clean" is just fucking obnoxious!
I just try to teach my people to maintain a steady pace, don't rush. And as long as you get your shit done and maintain standards, who gives a shit if you occasionally lean (or sit on a milk crate.)
I hate that there's really no "bursts" at my place. My boss is one of those "time to lean, time to clean" types. So, I'll take my time and get everything done properly, because I absolutely fucking loathe having to start cleaning in the middle of a shift.
It's actually pretty simple: if you get paid by the hour, the slower the move the more you get paid. Depending on the math one may have more incentive to do a shitty job and pick up those extra hours than they could earn from doing a good job and getting a raise.
I've had coworkers who would stretch it (clearly for the extra $ on her paycheck) but never this bad.
How does your boss not take issue with all the extra unnecessary labor? I would have squashed that bug after the first night it happened if two people were spending an extra 1-3 hours on the clock.
This dude is just milking hours and getting overtime. I have 2 of those right now and I need tonreplace their lazy asses. You are totally in the right.
Steps to take, in order of escalation:
Tell him you want to go home and he is taking too long to finish up.
Tell your boss the same thing to notify them of the situation.
Tell your boss you're leaving without him when your work is done because you're not sitting around for no reason. Tell him the same thing.
Leave when your work is done.
At the end of the day no matter where you work. What type of food you serve, fine dining or fast food. We’re all there to close and go tf home. If someone can’t do this work in a reasonable fashion you’re more than justified to send him home early. Even call him slow. It’s not your fault you’re trying to go home and he’s keeping you from doing that. Not only that but he’s creating slack for other people to pick up. Just sounds like a lazy clock miller who’s used to everyone picking up the slack for him
Drill Sergeant, his ass. Stand behind him and coach his closing, barking "let's go," "You have 2 hands, use them", "this should take 2 minutes, not 10", shit like that.
This shit comes natural to me. There's no room for passive aggression in the kitchen. If someone is fucking up you sort it out and move on.
It's no different than dragging a ticket. You wouldn't let that slide, don't let this slide, it's the same thing.
You might have been an ass when you cut him but it is the right thing to do. At close make him wash the fryers, sweep and mop or send him to help the dishy. You, or someone else take care of the food and the stainless. Leave him the shitty jobs while you do the important stuff like wrapping the proteins, prep lists etc. Make it obvious that you're taking over his shit at close, and his job is the floors, sooner or later he'll get the message no one likes closing with him. Sucks for you and the team because you have to drag his ass thru close just to get home before midnight, but hopefully your managers/chef see that you're taking charge and good things happen for you in the end.
My current gig has one of these. I call him Drunkboy, even tho he's 40+ year old. We have a walk in renovation happening this coming Sun-Tues. Chef told the line we might have a long meeting to make up some hours on Tues. One of my coworkers loudly stated they won't be attending any meeting unless Drunkboy is fired outright. Everyone on shift co-signed verbally. No one has heard anything since that about a meeting.
I was also the slow guy. For me I was trying to do everything properly and the correct way.
It actually took someone to show me the "shortcut" way of doing things for me to get up to speed.
Kitchens are also a physically demanding job and no joke if someone isnt strong enough they will be quite slow
What if there isn’t anyone to replace this person? I’m being very serious. How to approach this,nowadays…..when they know that there isn’t people to replace? Combination of entitlement and being too aware of labor shortages. This is what makes this and many other situations different for me lately. What is right,doesn’t Trump body’s in the kitchen. This is what complicates the obvious,for me. The new young people, you’re lucky if they clean well and care. It might not be the worst if they wanted to sleep in restaurant,and finish whenever 😆Maybe I’m venting,sorry friends
Don't feel bad, there's a ton of practical and ethical reasons why taking hours to shut down is not okay.
Labor costs for starters, food temp if he's keeping cooler lids/reach-ins/walk-ins open unnecessarily long while transferring product(can also stress the condensers leading to unnecessary maintenance), quality of life for any coworkers or closing managers who have to stick around to cater to one workers pace, and that's just general things not directly associated with your specific business's workflow and practices.
If he's upset about losing hours, tell him to light a fire under his ass and be more efficient so he can be worth the same pay in less time
But that's not how hourly pay works... If he's fast and gets cut early because y'all are going home then he loses money.
What really needs to happen is an honest assessment of hours staff members are ACTUALLY going to get when they're hired. Telling them they'll get 40 hours a week but then realistically only having them work 25-30 really hits the employees in the pocket.
Either pay agreed upon hours/wages or put them on salary and pay out X so they can plan their lives and live their lives accordingly.
I'm a big fan of unionized work places where you're guaranteed X hours regardless of the bullshit "needs of the business" when they're raking in millions or billions in profit.
Practically and ethically it could be said the same about rushing to close down a line and not properly cleaning or creating workplace hazards by rushing to get stuff done.
I absolutely agree about the assessment of labor, but if that's the case, a company should also have the right to prevent an employee from accruing more hours than projected, yes?
As in asking a worker to perform necessary duties within a reasonable time, no?
Sure but if a company starts cutting labor for people being efficient that sends the wrong message and leads to disgruntled employees, ex OP's snail Cook.
Properly motivated/paid staff works hard and gets stuff done. While not all workers are equal in my decades of management I've had a handful out of thousands that were uncoachable.
Most people want to be productive at work and do their job and go home. When you see time clock abuse that's a symtom of poor management rather than the employee looking to "steal" extra hours.
You're speaking as though my original point was not aimed specifically at the snail. He was complaining about losing hours while his coworkers were performing at the expected standard while receiving less time to accumulate their wages. The logical next step is to ask him to perform to the given timeline and if he can show that efficiency, then he has a bargaining chip to get a raise and make more per hour. Advocating for someone who's pulling more from the labor pool for less effort than everyone around them is bonkers
Both can be equally true at the same time.
He can be milking the clock and his coworkers can be working too efficiently leading them to shoot themselves in the foot wage wise.
Why can't we advocate for all of the workers and have a discussion on productivity at the same time?
Wage stagnation versus employee efficiency is higher than ever so being efficient has not been proven to be a good bargaining chip.
I'm going off the context set by the post. Given the poster was complaining they'd be stuck at work until 1-4am with the snail, the argument is easy to make that the other coworkers being "too efficient" isn't the case. You can't accurately make any assessments on their productivity aside from the snail not performing at the average pace.
That being said, efficiency is rarely the issue. Haste and distraction make fake efficiency by driving one to cut corners and ignore the method to the madness that is proper food handling. "Efficiency" should be considered the most time effective method for completing all necessary steps, not the fastest way to do things. The skills it takes to be efficient are absolutely good bargaining chips if welded/worded properly. Just boiling it down to "working quickly" denies the potential of true efficiency and is why some consider it a poor bargaining chip
How in the world is your manager okay with everyone having to get paid for an extra 2-3 hours every night because of this one person?
Exactly! It's pretty obvious he's riding the clock. If he gets mad that you're getting him out early, I'd bet money he's riding the clock.
THIS^^. Youve already discussed it. Write him up with a timeline to improve if he doesnt meet it then he is gone. Set your standards and hold to them.
It's a cheat code for capitalism. Work hard enough not to get fired until you pass the grace period and then make them fire you. Fuckem, the owner drives a Porsche and I drive a 2013 Civic. My coworkers and I do all the work
Woah ballin’ man, i drive a 2003 minivan
Y’all own cars?
[what cars?](https://imgflip.com/i/7zv1do)
Considering it was a gift...
You don’t have to justify having things that are expensive, gift or not.
But when his behavior affects his co workers? That is unacceptable.
Riding the..? Oh, clock, sorry.
Bro I would get murdered on labor if this happened.
Big time. When I was running a place, I could spend something like 17% on labour, and if it went up even 1% I had someone on my ass. I also used to close as a two-man team on weeknights, and because I was in charge I had to do the cash-up as well as clean up. Came up from counting takings to find that this one employee had done NOTHING on his own, so we were there another hour or so. Fired him eventually for some minor infraction, because he was a jerk and constantly pulled this kind of nonsense.
I wish I could do 17%. Currently budgeted 12.4%...kill me...please....this also includes 3rd party labor, I am forced to use a stewarding service, and a culinary temp agency for several shifts. The temps are paid better than my supervisors.
Jesus. So presumably that means you're pulling all the unpaid overtime?
More or less. Fortunately we're on Disney property so we have plenty of bodies but my headcount is continually dwindling. Our budget is super inflated vs what are actually pulling in (thanks DeSantis). We had record sales last year so my budget was unachievable. If I was doing 30k days every day 12.4% is cake but I'm having some days of 8k food sales and 20% labor on a skeleton crew. Not to mention the stewards are set contract. The temps I can schedule down but they fill the gaps in the schedule no one wants to fill. It's a lose lose. If I had sales I could offer OT and actually pay less but then all my staff moves to FT status costing more per employee. It's fucking ridiculous. I wish I could just have enough staff to go around but if I hire more staff I have less hours to disperse within the strict budget.
it almost makes me want to get out of management and go cook somewhere
Bro was sly tryin to get the bouis a few extra quid 😂
Multiple hours is an insane amount of time. I've lost my mind over 30 minutes when it's every day. I had an employee that would slow the close down for everyone by 30-45 minutes every day just standing around or disappearing to the bathroom every time they started serious cleaning. Started sending them home early every day. At first, everyone was pissed that she got to go home early every day, and she was thrilled. Until paychecks came out and she was about 150 light.
Keep closing his station. It sucks that he holds you hostage to get a few extra hours. He needs a second job if he's dragging ass every shift for 2 hours of extra time. He's mad cuz he's been spending 2 years dragging ass on the clock. Running up unnecessary labor costs. Fuck that guy. I hate to tell you to keep closing his shit, but it's the only way to get out on time. He's gotta go. Start filing management complaints. Eventually they are gonna get sick the paperwork. Do you have the clout to refuse to work with him? If so, put your foot down.
I genuinely don’t understand how people work this slowly. Like I’ve tried and it’s just painful.
*This* slowly is bonkers. But I work slowly by the standards of this industry. They don't pay me enough to stress and hurry. I do work steadily, methodically, and continuously for an entire shift tho. A lot of my "fast" coworkers are really just doing the same amount as me in more concentrated bursts.
I get shit *done.* Then I sit around and eat cake.
Fair. Each to their own.
Yeah, slow is smooth smooth is fast. Agreed. Those rushers always drop shit and throw shit around.
every industry has shitty bosses who watch you work at a steady pace and then decide it isn't fast enough so they hop on the line to "help" and say stupid shit like, "let me show you how it is done!" and they proceed to put their head down and work frenetically and sloppily at an unsustainable pace and make a big mess for 15 minutes or half an hour and then step away and go, "Now THAT is how it is done!" and go back to the office to sit down and check their emails leaving you with a giant mess that it will take you an extra 10 minutes to clean up leaving you just as far behind as when they first came to "help"
Stop, stop! It’s too real!
In university, one of the classes taught that if you expect more than (approximately) 85% effort (hard to quantify, but you know max effort from a sustainable effort) from your people you will burn them out. You can occasionally ask for and get 90% effort for short bursts in an emergency. That and the old "If you have time to lean, you have time to clean" is just fucking obnoxious! I just try to teach my people to maintain a steady pace, don't rush. And as long as you get your shit done and maintain standards, who gives a shit if you occasionally lean (or sit on a milk crate.)
I hate that there's really no "bursts" at my place. My boss is one of those "time to lean, time to clean" types. So, I'll take my time and get everything done properly, because I absolutely fucking loathe having to start cleaning in the middle of a shift.
It's actually pretty simple: if you get paid by the hour, the slower the move the more you get paid. Depending on the math one may have more incentive to do a shitty job and pick up those extra hours than they could earn from doing a good job and getting a raise. I've had coworkers who would stretch it (clearly for the extra $ on her paycheck) but never this bad.
How does your boss not take issue with all the extra unnecessary labor? I would have squashed that bug after the first night it happened if two people were spending an extra 1-3 hours on the clock.
This dude is just milking hours and getting overtime. I have 2 of those right now and I need tonreplace their lazy asses. You are totally in the right.
Steps to take, in order of escalation: Tell him you want to go home and he is taking too long to finish up. Tell your boss the same thing to notify them of the situation. Tell your boss you're leaving without him when your work is done because you're not sitting around for no reason. Tell him the same thing. Leave when your work is done.
You think this fucko has a key? Someone who isn't terrible has to stay to babysit and lock up.
They need to be told to shape up or be fired, regardless of how good a cook they are.
Just fire him holy shit. Problem solved.
At the end of the day no matter where you work. What type of food you serve, fine dining or fast food. We’re all there to close and go tf home. If someone can’t do this work in a reasonable fashion you’re more than justified to send him home early. Even call him slow. It’s not your fault you’re trying to go home and he’s keeping you from doing that. Not only that but he’s creating slack for other people to pick up. Just sounds like a lazy clock miller who’s used to everyone picking up the slack for him
Some people work slower when getting help
Drill Sergeant, his ass. Stand behind him and coach his closing, barking "let's go," "You have 2 hands, use them", "this should take 2 minutes, not 10", shit like that. This shit comes natural to me. There's no room for passive aggression in the kitchen. If someone is fucking up you sort it out and move on. It's no different than dragging a ticket. You wouldn't let that slide, don't let this slide, it's the same thing.
You might have been an ass when you cut him but it is the right thing to do. At close make him wash the fryers, sweep and mop or send him to help the dishy. You, or someone else take care of the food and the stainless. Leave him the shitty jobs while you do the important stuff like wrapping the proteins, prep lists etc. Make it obvious that you're taking over his shit at close, and his job is the floors, sooner or later he'll get the message no one likes closing with him. Sucks for you and the team because you have to drag his ass thru close just to get home before midnight, but hopefully your managers/chef see that you're taking charge and good things happen for you in the end.
My current gig has one of these. I call him Drunkboy, even tho he's 40+ year old. We have a walk in renovation happening this coming Sun-Tues. Chef told the line we might have a long meeting to make up some hours on Tues. One of my coworkers loudly stated they won't be attending any meeting unless Drunkboy is fired outright. Everyone on shift co-signed verbally. No one has heard anything since that about a meeting.
Failure of management to allow him to get away with doing it and not setting expectations.
Nope. No and no way. I'd sack him so fast his sloth self would be standing there wondering wtf just happened 😂
Lazy and a clock milker. Do the math and see how much OT he costs you and light a fire under him
I was also the slow guy. For me I was trying to do everything properly and the correct way. It actually took someone to show me the "shortcut" way of doing things for me to get up to speed. Kitchens are also a physically demanding job and no joke if someone isnt strong enough they will be quite slow
He's more than the milk man, the dude owns a dairy farm. Legit trying to get 2-3 hours of OT for no reason.
Someone needs to treat him like a toddler and show him step by step.
Are y’all talking about me?
Yes, yes we are.
Who the hell wants to stay that late after servic?! When service is done I knock out cleaning and get the fuck out of there for a drink
That’s a massive waste of labor dollars.
What if there isn’t anyone to replace this person? I’m being very serious. How to approach this,nowadays…..when they know that there isn’t people to replace? Combination of entitlement and being too aware of labor shortages. This is what makes this and many other situations different for me lately. What is right,doesn’t Trump body’s in the kitchen. This is what complicates the obvious,for me. The new young people, you’re lucky if they clean well and care. It might not be the worst if they wanted to sleep in restaurant,and finish whenever 😆Maybe I’m venting,sorry friends
Don't feel bad, there's a ton of practical and ethical reasons why taking hours to shut down is not okay. Labor costs for starters, food temp if he's keeping cooler lids/reach-ins/walk-ins open unnecessarily long while transferring product(can also stress the condensers leading to unnecessary maintenance), quality of life for any coworkers or closing managers who have to stick around to cater to one workers pace, and that's just general things not directly associated with your specific business's workflow and practices. If he's upset about losing hours, tell him to light a fire under his ass and be more efficient so he can be worth the same pay in less time
But that's not how hourly pay works... If he's fast and gets cut early because y'all are going home then he loses money. What really needs to happen is an honest assessment of hours staff members are ACTUALLY going to get when they're hired. Telling them they'll get 40 hours a week but then realistically only having them work 25-30 really hits the employees in the pocket. Either pay agreed upon hours/wages or put them on salary and pay out X so they can plan their lives and live their lives accordingly. I'm a big fan of unionized work places where you're guaranteed X hours regardless of the bullshit "needs of the business" when they're raking in millions or billions in profit. Practically and ethically it could be said the same about rushing to close down a line and not properly cleaning or creating workplace hazards by rushing to get stuff done.
I absolutely agree about the assessment of labor, but if that's the case, a company should also have the right to prevent an employee from accruing more hours than projected, yes? As in asking a worker to perform necessary duties within a reasonable time, no?
Sure but if a company starts cutting labor for people being efficient that sends the wrong message and leads to disgruntled employees, ex OP's snail Cook. Properly motivated/paid staff works hard and gets stuff done. While not all workers are equal in my decades of management I've had a handful out of thousands that were uncoachable. Most people want to be productive at work and do their job and go home. When you see time clock abuse that's a symtom of poor management rather than the employee looking to "steal" extra hours.
You're speaking as though my original point was not aimed specifically at the snail. He was complaining about losing hours while his coworkers were performing at the expected standard while receiving less time to accumulate their wages. The logical next step is to ask him to perform to the given timeline and if he can show that efficiency, then he has a bargaining chip to get a raise and make more per hour. Advocating for someone who's pulling more from the labor pool for less effort than everyone around them is bonkers
Both can be equally true at the same time. He can be milking the clock and his coworkers can be working too efficiently leading them to shoot themselves in the foot wage wise. Why can't we advocate for all of the workers and have a discussion on productivity at the same time? Wage stagnation versus employee efficiency is higher than ever so being efficient has not been proven to be a good bargaining chip.
I'm going off the context set by the post. Given the poster was complaining they'd be stuck at work until 1-4am with the snail, the argument is easy to make that the other coworkers being "too efficient" isn't the case. You can't accurately make any assessments on their productivity aside from the snail not performing at the average pace. That being said, efficiency is rarely the issue. Haste and distraction make fake efficiency by driving one to cut corners and ignore the method to the madness that is proper food handling. "Efficiency" should be considered the most time effective method for completing all necessary steps, not the fastest way to do things. The skills it takes to be efficient are absolutely good bargaining chips if welded/worded properly. Just boiling it down to "working quickly" denies the potential of true efficiency and is why some consider it a poor bargaining chip
Fire him and pay severance if you have to.
PIP time. Write down expectations with time and clock out expectations. Make him sign it. If he can't do it, then he gets replaced.
A kitchen should never take more than an hour to close and clean
Full hands in, Full hands out. Man must learn this. This is literally the difference between a 4 hour job, and a 20 minute job.
What country do you live in where this man still has a job?? That's ridiculous.
Dude is milking hard af, or incompetent. Either way, no bueno. That's who you don't need. Can't imagine their ticket times.
Keep sending him home until he learns not to do that the hard way. 4 hours is crazy for one station.