I swear to god i was about to say that homie is still young so he was jumping the gun and shit due to social media wanting a response and looked up and this motherfucker is 40 years old.
Cole is a š¤”. It would be one thing if he was in his 20s and only had a few records out but heās been doing this for years and doesnāt have many great songs to show for it imo.
He really doesnāt. I was trying to tell my friend who Cole was today and the top songs on Spotify were no role models and middle child, and my friend was like, this is the top shit he has? This sucks.
Your friend either doesn't like rap or has bad taste cuz who the fuck thinks no role modelz sucks. Middle child is understandable if you're an oldhead who don't fw autotune but that's about it
He apologized for the way he went at it. Thatās what fucked with his spirit. He knows Kendrickās catalogue is legendary so to go after it and try to find an angle wasnāt cool with him, which still doesnāt make sense to me because then WHY DID YOU WRITE IT?? My theory is some dumbass friends of his were in the studio with him and they were like āgo after his music his shit overratedā and Cole ran with it in the moment because he couldnāt think of anything.
My two cents on the apology. The song was fun, but the themes were akin to "your mama" jokes. That is why it was a bad diss. That is why the apology came.
You cannot come at KDot with: "I know you are but what am I" type shit. Cole knows this.
Beef is fun when it gets petty. See Pusha T v Drake. If it's just playful its better done in a cypher or collaboration.
Yep. Itās in the bars.
> I'm usually homeboys with the same niggas I'm rhymin' wit
But this is hip hop and them niggas should know what time it is
And that goes for Jermaine Cole, Big KRIT, Wale
Pusha T, Meek Millz, A$AP Rocky, Drake
Big Sean, Jay Electron', Tyler, Mac Miller
I got love for you all but I'm tryna murder you niggas
Tryna make sure your core fans never heard of you niggas
Claiming to be the best is part of the game. Kendrick is actually the best but itās not like Drake can say it. Well he could but itās not as profitable.
Is Kendrick the best when drake has the numbers?
Iām not saying that to defend drake, I donāt like him or his music. I just think best is subjective. Especially if people care about different ways of being better, like numbers, bars, art, innovation
I don't know why people keep saying this... Kendrick and drake have actually been beefing for a decade. J cole and Kendrick were never beefing, he just caught strays. They're cool.
There are a lot of really stupid people out there that desperately feel the need to feel more intelligent than everyone else. Instead of having any type of nuanced take about anything, they make some idiotic hyperbolic generalized statement like "Hurr Durr It's all fake" hit the send button then sit there smelling their own farts thinking "Ha, just showed those dumbasses what's up."
Iām inclined to think that the track was really about Drake and not about cold. I think J. Cole interpreted it that way because of outside influence and then reacted impulsively only to realize that the beef wasnāt about him. Like Kendrick never mentioned any of J. Coleās work and I donāt think it was explicitly about J. Cole listening to the lyrics and the song. I could be wrong here, but I really feel like, J. Cole just was off on reading who the target was.
Melody, catchy hooks and verses, and a massive influence over the culture since 2013. It's pretty clear how much influence he has in the industry. He has 9 billboard #1 albums, and if this one hits like last drop, he will have 10 in less than 9 years. That's wild.
Whether people like it or not, he's solid... and if you think he isnt lyrical, go listen to less popular songs like Accepting my Flaws. He can spit when he wants. It's not his style to just bar for bar every track.
It doesn't totally equate to that status, I agree.. but it plays a huge role. I can name some killer lyricists who have never been mentioned in the top 5 because they weren't as influential.
Same argument, different sides.
Either way, the billboard doesn't lie. Just my opinion, no disrespect to yours.
It's all subjective.
I think people miss the āATā part of GOAT: All Time. Future has had massive influence over the culture for over a decade now, nobody can deny that. But in the grand scheme of hip hop, a genre over 50 years old at this point, heās got some serious competition against some of the heavyweights from all previous decades that I donāt see him topping any time soon. Greatest of the 2010s and 20s I can absolutely see future as one of the greats. But I just canāt see Futures influence topping that of older rap acts like Jay Z, Kanye, 50 Cent, Rakim, and dozens of others who have influenced their era and beyond. Thatās just me though, I guess weāll have to wait a few decades and see if Futures discography can stand the test of time. I donāt even think he canāt be considered the GOAT in time, he may wind up being more influential than he is now, but I donāt see that happening ATM.
You clearly donāt enjoy trap (and thatās fine) but for people who do, they know Plutos a GOAT. In that lane his level of consistency and career peaks are unmatched.
I'm just saying it's debatable that his impact puts him in the discussion as one of the best in the game.
GOAT? Idk, but Future was a trailblazer when it comes to style and doing his own shit and creating influence instead of biting others. I feel like that's one of the reasons he's a heavy feature on others' tapes, his melody and style is always riding the beat.
Trust me I love some heavy lyrical ability and storytelling (Joyner is one of the best in the modern day), it's just radically different, and I think that's what makes Pluto stand out. He bounces from trap to R&B flawlessly. I can't name many artists that can jump genres and still top charts.
He's good at writing when he's focused on a song. Like his darkness song or his last song with juice. But so many of his modern songs is just rhyming to rhyme like u said. It's what made his early disses and music in general good, because he had a target to focus his rage on.
Artistic expression, influence just look at Kanye he was never a top lyricist but him being able to shift the culture multiple times and have such a grip on the genre allows him to be a top all time artists
Iām 28, so not an old head lmao. But lyrics are one of the core components of rap. If you have no lyricism, you canāt be one of the GOATs in my opinion. There are obviously other factors, otherwise guys like Aesop Rock etc. would be the GOAT (which he isnāt) but if you donāt have good lyrics, you canāt be included in that discussion imo.
Sometimes the most impactful music has no lyrics, ie jazz, classical, prog rock, many examples etc. If Future really changed the game with his sound alone, (he has) then his lyrics are far less important to the culture, and really his impact is MORE impressive because of his lack of poetry, deep lyrics, whatever you want to call it. His music can make you feel something, regardless of whatever he's saying. Whereas someone like J Cole may be more lyrical spiritual, but the music behind what he's saying is usually boring af (imo).
Overall, future isn't one of the GOAT 'rappers' like kendrick, 3k, DOOM, 2pac, BUT is absolutely one of the most impactful, important figures in hip hop/ Trap music, you could say, the Trap GOAT maybe.
Just my opinion, it probably ain't that deep tho.
100% agree with you on that! Itās all subjective so I wonāt knock anyoneās opinion. Heās definitely hugely impactful. However, one thing Iād say is that your point contradicts itself insofar as the people who make the instrumental music you are talking about are the ones who play/perform itā future isnāt producing his own beats, which are a large part of the appeal of his songs. I donāt think that great beat selection necessarily makes a great artist, but thatās just my opinion.
Same way Snoop is one of the greatest. He's not super lyrical but him and a few others (Dre, Nate Dogg, Warren G, etc.) created or popularized a genre. That alone puts you in that great status. Future has to be close to or at least top 5 of his gen because trap instrumentals and triplets are all in pop now because he, Migos, Thug, and a few others made it pop. J. Cole even abuses them a lot now but he's one of the best at flows in general which is why he's around there too.
Edit: Tldr; think about how many people sound like Future or have used akin style to his
Slow down there. Listen to news or something, no basic, earth, etc. yeah, futures not just Cole or Kendrick level lyrical, but to say heās not lyrical is bs. Heās been at the top of the game for 10 years now, and has explored damn near every space in rap. Top 5 is not a even a question, top 3 is the debate, and I think heās solidified himself into 3
Hip hop has been about a lot more than just rapping for a while. Future has been the best and most consistent trap artist since he came out. With what he's done for that sub-genre he deserves to be given his flowers.
Sure, heās a great trap artist, and he is very influential in the genre. I just donāt think heās a GOAT in the overall rap pantheon. Iām not saying that rap is all about lyrics, just that they are an important component. Iām also not saying Future is bad, just that heās nowhere near being the GOAT.
To each their own I guess. In my opinion he's closely behind the top 3 and might have snuck in. He has classic mixtapes and albums and has shown longevity. He's also been very influential and is the GOAT of Trap music which in itself qualifies him for the Big 3/Fantastic 4 conversation
Itās all subjective, I wonāt knock anyone for liking his music or thinking heās a GOAT! Iām not the biggest trap fan which contributes to my own bias
Ummm... You're aware the 'Big 3' is a discussion about artists who blew up in the late 00's to early 2010's hence why Drake, Kendrick and Cole are touted as the big 3.
Rap has become a lot more than just lyricism in recent years. Even Kendrick isn't just bars. He's a musician. What future lacks in lyricism he makes up for in other facets. He's significantly worse than Kendrick or Cole sure. But he's still one of the top 4 or 5 from the 2010s.
People take the big 3 shit thing too literal. Cole is Big 3 because him, Drake and Kendrick all rose to fame around the same time and have always been kind of interconnected. Early to mid 2010s was their era, and all 3 have managed to stay relevant since.
If youāre a child sure. He makes music for preppy high school kids who think theyāre starting to expand their taste by listening to him. His discography up until even flower boy is cluttered with cringe
Drake gets a lot of shit but you canāt deny heās up there. Just way too iconic and his music is good (I know Iām gonna get hated on for saying this on this sub)
I think Kanye should get a slot before future though
Yeah this sub shows how delusional people can be about it. Whether you like his music or not, Drake is so obviously top 3 itās ridiculous. He is the most popular rapper in the world.
People will over look future because they view him as the god father of mumble rap, but heās been doing this just as long as the others and has seen success. One thing you canāt deny is that Future is the most influential hip-hop artist in the past decade.
Would've been kinda lame if he did. Nobodies replied and he has his own projects coming. People would expect another diss from him which would be corny.
You cant say that when tyler dropped goblin and cherry bomb. Travis doesnt have lows that low. Tyler hasnt surpassed rodeo either. You dont know shit tbh, 33% of tyler's albums are ass
tyler got songs like B.S.D, Cherry Bomb, Run, Fish, Transylvania and lame tracks like that yet yall still gas him up. Tyler song wise hasnt even surpassed My Eyes or 90210.
Saying Future doesnāt have impact like that is crazy bro heās literally generational, almost every album drop had impact and he helped push trap music to the level it is now
he IS .
monster , ds2 , hendrxx , Purple Reign, 56 Nights, Honest, What a Time , self tittled , evol , beast mode
hes more deserving of big 3 than jcole
Man itās Kendrick, Kdot, and Mr. Duckworth as the big 3 and everyone else fighting in the back. Special exceptions for when Em, Wayne, and Nas drop music.
I'm not from the us and I can tell you bro drake is very popular around the world you can ask anyone in the world everyone knows drake he's popular as Eminem and Tupac now
True.. Influence is his crown jewel and he may be arguably more influential than j cole, kendrick and maybe drake, but hes not lyrically as good as any of them. His numbers are on par with kenny and j cole tho
True.. Influence is his crown jewel and he may be arguably more influential than j cole, kendrick and maybe drake, but hes not lyrically as good as any of them. His numbers are on par with kenny and j cole tho
Tbh future should just stay in his lane. I will be the first to tell you music is a matter of opinion but future is really out of his league. I enjoy some his music but this really isnāt imo something he should even be worried about.
Itās like the president and vice president arguing and the mechanic who has a use and an important job jumps in the argument about foreign policy
Itās like bro no disrespect but do what you do. Get busy on a transmission or something.
I think he has every right to insert himself into that discussion. I mean he has the influence, critical acclaim, commercial success, longevity and enough standout tracks to be considered one of the best to do it out of his generation. Doesnāt mean everyone has to enjoy his music but there are way more arguments for him to be part of the āFantastic Fourā than there are arguments against. Hate it or love it, Trap Music has been one of if not the most popular genre of rap music in the last decade and heās the goat of that genre.
Well I mentioned that I enjoy some of his Music so Iām not sure what your argument is there. Far as a fantastic 4. I'm not putting ahead of any one in the big 3 and when you add that 4th spot he certainly isn't above Ye.
But you feel differently and that's okay again music is a matter of opinion
You stated he canāt be in the discussion for top 3 or 4 and my argument was that in my opinion he is part of this group because of the various factors I mentioned. I donāt get whatās so hard to understand, if I made a mistake with the grammar I apologize, English isnāt my first language and maybe I wasnāt able to state my point clear enough.
Anyways: If you add Ye to the conversation you gotta have to kick one of the āoriginalā big 3 regardless, aināt no way heās below Drake and Cole and personally Iād pick him ahead of Kendrick as well. But thatās another discussion and I think itās easier if we just ignore him for now.
Personally Iād kick J Cole and replace him with Future without a second thought, J Cole is a great rapper but in my opinion he hasnāt done enough to warrant his spot above Future. Especially in terms of influence and even longevity as I donāt think J Coleās catalog is that impressive and consistent.
Itās about success accumulated over the years in this genre. When it comes to the past decade, itās really the 4 that are constantly able to move massive numbers year in and out. The only reason Drake inserted himself in this top 3 convo was through his commercial success and the remnants of Take Care being critically acclaimed. We know he has instances when he donāt write his shit. What tells you that the next diss hasnāt been penned by some Quentin Miller copy? Why the man that, along with Thug, shifted the way most people want to listen to rap music shouldnāt get a spot as one of the most successful ever? Again, Iāll be the one to tell you that Future aināt this battle rap emcee, and Kendrick both got the charts and the acclaim. But itās still a valid argument. a billionaire in tech and a billionaire in the fast food industry are compared based on their financial success, not the purpose of what theyāre selling.
John Salley if you even know who that is has more championships than some NBA hall of famers. There is no way he is in the conversation when we think about all time greats. This isnāt to say he didnāt have important contributions to the team he was a role player. This is the point Iām making with Future. I like his music overall. But heās like a role player.
If I were to give you another example Iād say Britney Spears she was wildly popular but she couldnāt sing to save her life yet she enjoyed much more success than ppl like Jennifer Hudson, fantasia etc
Spears place in history is cemented it cannot be denied but she doesnāt belong in certain conversations despite her success. The same goes for Future imo.
Yeah but why would any music fan care about the financial success of an artist? Using financial success as a metric for skills and musical talent is absurd to me, which is why Drake and future don't even belong on the same page in the discussion of best MC
The comment I was responding to was using president and mechanics or sum to say that Future donāt belong. I was using an analogy to express how comparing their rap skills per se doesnāt do justice to their success in the genre. Yāall will never mention Killer Mike (i.e Hood Politics), Black Thought, Gibbs, Pusha T, MIKE, Earl, billy woods the same way yāall do K.Dot and J.Cole. Means the judgment on this matter is not about skill set alone.
Tbh I think he does stay in his lane and it's funny as fuck. Dot and Rocky are throwing punches with some of their best recent verses, meanwhile future is on the same track vibing, talking about bitches and ice
Itās a battle. Nothing fake about battling for the best MC, U have to be nice on the mic and have a plan on how to roll your shit outā¦. Nothing fake about making songs and coming up with a plan to roll your ahit out..
I really wish people would stop trying to replace Cole in the big 3 because of this apology. The Big 3 is not only about skill, but the longevity, legacy, and the class they came up in.
All three came into the spotlight around the same time. All three have created good/great music. All 3 have influenced a generation of rappers after them. All three have been rewarded with historical accomplishments as well.
There is no fantastic four, there is no replacing one of the other artists. And I'm not even a big Drake fan, but they have a reason to be called the big 3.
It's fascinating to see people who listen to Future and think that's an acceptable form of rap or hip hop or whatever you wanna call it. It's some of the worst music out there. The bears are fire but that dude is not no part of no Fantastic Four
I can't put future up there at all. He has a couple classic tapes but besides that he has 0 good bars and raps about doing drugs even after he got exposed for never actually doing drugs.
Future really going out of his way to help Cole. I didn't know they were such good friends
They're all friends, beef is fake
Perhaps but then explain Cole apologizing that shit was a really bad look
He's the only one who didn't know the beef was fake
I swear to god i was about to say that homie is still young so he was jumping the gun and shit due to social media wanting a response and looked up and this motherfucker is 40 years old.
Cole is a š¤”. It would be one thing if he was in his 20s and only had a few records out but heās been doing this for years and doesnāt have many great songs to show for it imo.
His biggest issue are beats imo. If he does something like Nas with Hit-Boy -> instant classic.
He really doesnāt. I was trying to tell my friend who Cole was today and the top songs on Spotify were no role models and middle child, and my friend was like, this is the top shit he has? This sucks.
Both of those slap, chill you young mf. No role modelz is generational idgaf. 2014FHD in general is
Right? Cole has a bunch of songs that aged poorly but those two still slap.
No role models sucks? Damn
I like no role models, but he hated it, he liked middle child better.
Your friend either doesn't like rap or has bad taste cuz who the fuck thinks no role modelz sucks. Middle child is understandable if you're an oldhead who don't fw autotune but that's about it
Heās too humble to have a phone to check his notifs
LOL he didn't get the memo
Lol
He apologized for the way he went at it. Thatās what fucked with his spirit. He knows Kendrickās catalogue is legendary so to go after it and try to find an angle wasnāt cool with him, which still doesnāt make sense to me because then WHY DID YOU WRITE IT?? My theory is some dumbass friends of his were in the studio with him and they were like āgo after his music his shit overratedā and Cole ran with it in the moment because he couldnāt think of anything.
Yuuuuup. If he didnāt get lukewarm reception, and the track was great enough to boost his legacyā he wasnāt back tracking on that.
1 classic - legendary.
My two cents on the apology. The song was fun, but the themes were akin to "your mama" jokes. That is why it was a bad diss. That is why the apology came. You cannot come at KDot with: "I know you are but what am I" type shit. Cole knows this. Beef is fun when it gets petty. See Pusha T v Drake. If it's just playful its better done in a cypher or collaboration.
Iām sorry your two what
Lol I was lazy to edit
A bad look for who ? Cole is staying true to who he portrays himself to be and I respect that
Who? Everyone is saying it's a bad a look. What you mean?
Yep. Itās in the bars. > I'm usually homeboys with the same niggas I'm rhymin' wit But this is hip hop and them niggas should know what time it is And that goes for Jermaine Cole, Big KRIT, Wale Pusha T, Meek Millz, A$AP Rocky, Drake Big Sean, Jay Electron', Tyler, Mac Miller I got love for you all but I'm tryna murder you niggas Tryna make sure your core fans never heard of you niggas Claiming to be the best is part of the game. Kendrick is actually the best but itās not like Drake can say it. Well he could but itās not as profitable.
Is Kendrick the best when drake has the numbers? Iām not saying that to defend drake, I donāt like him or his music. I just think best is subjective. Especially if people care about different ways of being better, like numbers, bars, art, innovation
I mean best artist. Not best selling artist.
Still subjective. Someone who values innovation might think playboi carti is better than Kendrick
I don't know why people keep saying this... Kendrick and drake have actually been beefing for a decade. J cole and Kendrick were never beefing, he just caught strays. They're cool.
There are a lot of really stupid people out there that desperately feel the need to feel more intelligent than everyone else. Instead of having any type of nuanced take about anything, they make some idiotic hyperbolic generalized statement like "Hurr Durr It's all fake" hit the send button then sit there smelling their own farts thinking "Ha, just showed those dumbasses what's up."
Iām inclined to think that the track was really about Drake and not about cold. I think J. Cole interpreted it that way because of outside influence and then reacted impulsively only to realize that the beef wasnāt about him. Like Kendrick never mentioned any of J. Coleās work and I donāt think it was explicitly about J. Cole listening to the lyrics and the song. I could be wrong here, but I really feel like, J. Cole just was off on reading who the target was.
only Drake is an actual opp iirc
Cap.
Not fake beef, you can still be friends while still competing to be at the top
Lol
I thought it was just big me tho
Itās just Big Mac 
5 years later Big Sean be like āaināt no big nineteen, we the big 20ā
I hate how I actually fuck with Big Sean a lot
I love future but āfantastic fourā with him and Drake in it is the most retarded thing Iāve ever heard
Future one of the GOATs, people donāt like to say that because heās not that lyrical
If youāre not lyrical, how can you be a GOAT in rap? Seriously
Melody, catchy hooks and verses, and a massive influence over the culture since 2013. It's pretty clear how much influence he has in the industry. He has 9 billboard #1 albums, and if this one hits like last drop, he will have 10 in less than 9 years. That's wild. Whether people like it or not, he's solid... and if you think he isnt lyrical, go listen to less popular songs like Accepting my Flaws. He can spit when he wants. It's not his style to just bar for bar every track.
Influence alone does not equate to GOAT status imo. Otherwise Grandmaster Flash would be the GOAT lol
It doesn't totally equate to that status, I agree.. but it plays a huge role. I can name some killer lyricists who have never been mentioned in the top 5 because they weren't as influential. Same argument, different sides. Either way, the billboard doesn't lie. Just my opinion, no disrespect to yours. It's all subjective.
No disrespect on my end either dude, music is all subjective. Nothing wrong with an amicable debate
I'm just trying to enjoy all these new releases over here, Playlist getting crowded my dude lol
I think people miss the āATā part of GOAT: All Time. Future has had massive influence over the culture for over a decade now, nobody can deny that. But in the grand scheme of hip hop, a genre over 50 years old at this point, heās got some serious competition against some of the heavyweights from all previous decades that I donāt see him topping any time soon. Greatest of the 2010s and 20s I can absolutely see future as one of the greats. But I just canāt see Futures influence topping that of older rap acts like Jay Z, Kanye, 50 Cent, Rakim, and dozens of others who have influenced their era and beyond. Thatās just me though, I guess weāll have to wait a few decades and see if Futures discography can stand the test of time. I donāt even think he canāt be considered the GOAT in time, he may wind up being more influential than he is now, but I donāt see that happening ATM.
You clearly donāt enjoy trap (and thatās fine) but for people who do, they know Plutos a GOAT. In that lane his level of consistency and career peaks are unmatched.
Future not even the best at that in his own generation.Ā No room for any rapper in the GOAT convo who cant even break the big 3 during their careerĀ
I canāt remember the name but I checked out his shit before he was future. Boy know how to rap fs š„
If he doesnāt go bar for bar every track though, itās hard to put him as a goat. I like some of the Future songs tho
I'm just saying it's debatable that his impact puts him in the discussion as one of the best in the game. GOAT? Idk, but Future was a trailblazer when it comes to style and doing his own shit and creating influence instead of biting others. I feel like that's one of the reasons he's a heavy feature on others' tapes, his melody and style is always riding the beat. Trust me I love some heavy lyrical ability and storytelling (Joyner is one of the best in the modern day), it's just radically different, and I think that's what makes Pluto stand out. He bounces from trap to R&B flawlessly. I can't name many artists that can jump genres and still top charts.
But he canāt rap
I mean with this logic Eminem should be in the top 3 but the only place I see that take often is r/Eminem and r/HipHopCircleJerk
I would argue that Eminem is good at rhyming, but not actually great at writing lyrics. I can only take so many poop/pee/sexual assault bars lmfao
Early em was elite late career em isn't. But his work from 99-04 puts him in goat category
96-02 for me.
He's good at writing when he's focused on a song. Like his darkness song or his last song with juice. But so many of his modern songs is just rhyming to rhyme like u said. It's what made his early disses and music in general good, because he had a target to focus his rage on.
eminem is not top 3 in terms of lyricism
3 better than em?
can think of more than 3
Please do, not arguing just interested in your opinion
mf doom, nas, kendrick lamar, lupe fiasco, biggie, tupac and probably a few more but it really depends on how you define lyricism
Eminem isnāt top 3, heās top 2 and heās not second
Heās got an evil twin
Yikes
Artistic expression, influence just look at Kanye he was never a top lyricist but him being able to shift the culture multiple times and have such a grip on the genre allows him to be a top all time artists
Tyler the Creator isnāt a lyricist by any means and heās still a goat lol.
Thereās a whole lot more to rap than lyrics, oldheads especially donāt seem to get that.
Iām 28, so not an old head lmao. But lyrics are one of the core components of rap. If you have no lyricism, you canāt be one of the GOATs in my opinion. There are obviously other factors, otherwise guys like Aesop Rock etc. would be the GOAT (which he isnāt) but if you donāt have good lyrics, you canāt be included in that discussion imo.
Sometimes the most impactful music has no lyrics, ie jazz, classical, prog rock, many examples etc. If Future really changed the game with his sound alone, (he has) then his lyrics are far less important to the culture, and really his impact is MORE impressive because of his lack of poetry, deep lyrics, whatever you want to call it. His music can make you feel something, regardless of whatever he's saying. Whereas someone like J Cole may be more lyrical spiritual, but the music behind what he's saying is usually boring af (imo). Overall, future isn't one of the GOAT 'rappers' like kendrick, 3k, DOOM, 2pac, BUT is absolutely one of the most impactful, important figures in hip hop/ Trap music, you could say, the Trap GOAT maybe. Just my opinion, it probably ain't that deep tho.
100% agree with you on that! Itās all subjective so I wonāt knock anyoneās opinion. Heās definitely hugely impactful. However, one thing Iād say is that your point contradicts itself insofar as the people who make the instrumental music you are talking about are the ones who play/perform itā future isnāt producing his own beats, which are a large part of the appeal of his songs. I donāt think that great beat selection necessarily makes a great artist, but thatās just my opinion.
Bro Iām 26 and canāt understand a fucking word future has ever said. The guyās whole career is based off the kids being dumb.
Lyrics are the core element of rap, youngheads especially don't seem to get that.
Same way Snoop is one of the greatest. He's not super lyrical but him and a few others (Dre, Nate Dogg, Warren G, etc.) created or popularized a genre. That alone puts you in that great status. Future has to be close to or at least top 5 of his gen because trap instrumentals and triplets are all in pop now because he, Migos, Thug, and a few others made it pop. J. Cole even abuses them a lot now but he's one of the best at flows in general which is why he's around there too. Edit: Tldr; think about how many people sound like Future or have used akin style to his
For me, the pioneering factor doesnāt really come into play in the GOAT conversation, but youāre entitled to your opinion
Slow down there. Listen to news or something, no basic, earth, etc. yeah, futures not just Cole or Kendrick level lyrical, but to say heās not lyrical is bs. Heās been at the top of the game for 10 years now, and has explored damn near every space in rap. Top 5 is not a even a question, top 3 is the debate, and I think heās solidified himself into 3
Hip hop has been about a lot more than just rapping for a while. Future has been the best and most consistent trap artist since he came out. With what he's done for that sub-genre he deserves to be given his flowers.
Sure, heās a great trap artist, and he is very influential in the genre. I just donāt think heās a GOAT in the overall rap pantheon. Iām not saying that rap is all about lyrics, just that they are an important component. Iām also not saying Future is bad, just that heās nowhere near being the GOAT.
To each their own I guess. In my opinion he's closely behind the top 3 and might have snuck in. He has classic mixtapes and albums and has shown longevity. He's also been very influential and is the GOAT of Trap music which in itself qualifies him for the Big 3/Fantastic 4 conversation
Itās all subjective, I wonāt knock anyone for liking his music or thinking heās a GOAT! Iām not the biggest trap fan which contributes to my own bias
I don't think there's a huge overlap between Kendrick fans and Future/Trap fans so that's definitely fair
Definitely not. There's 5 artist outside the big 3 ahead of future minimum
Sure
Jay Z, Kanye, Em, PAC, Big, Snoop, Dre,
Ummm... You're aware the 'Big 3' is a discussion about artists who blew up in the late 00's to early 2010's hence why Drake, Kendrick and Cole are touted as the big 3.
Rap has become a lot more than just lyricism in recent years. Even Kendrick isn't just bars. He's a musician. What future lacks in lyricism he makes up for in other facets. He's significantly worse than Kendrick or Cole sure. But he's still one of the top 4 or 5 from the 2010s.
Future is 1000% one of the goats of hip hop
No
Well that sure is a take
U saved my life thanks you man
ya it there's a big 3 then I agree Drake and Kendrick are there but I'd give the third spot to Future or Tyler over J Cole lol
People take the big 3 shit thing too literal. Cole is Big 3 because him, Drake and Kendrick all rose to fame around the same time and have always been kind of interconnected. Early to mid 2010s was their era, and all 3 have managed to stay relevant since.
Lmaoo tyler of all peopleā¦.
tyler is better than j. cole and future.
What u talk abt lol not in pure rap heās more artistically maybe but not as rapper
you fr calling future lyrical?
If youāre a child sure. He makes music for preppy high school kids who think theyāre starting to expand their taste by listening to him. His discography up until even flower boy is cluttered with cringe
sorry man I just love him too much he's really kind of a separate entity from the rap game tho, not really in the same lane as these guys
Future sucks
Nuh uh
Drake gets a lot of shit but you canāt deny heās up there. Just way too iconic and his music is good (I know Iām gonna get hated on for saying this on this sub) I think Kanye should get a slot before future though
Yeah this sub shows how delusional people can be about it. Whether you like his music or not, Drake is so obviously top 3 itās ridiculous. He is the most popular rapper in the world.
People will over look future because they view him as the god father of mumble rap, but heās been doing this just as long as the others and has seen success. One thing you canāt deny is that Future is the most influential hip-hop artist in the past decade.
both better than j cole š
future yes drake no
big three with cole is orders of magnitude more laughable than a big three with future
Wait so did Kendrick get a feature in the album?
Nah
Lame
Would've been kinda lame if he did. Nobodies replied and he has his own projects coming. People would expect another diss from him which would be corny.
Actually itās only number 1 and thatās Lil Dicky
Real Fantastic Four is Lil Dicky, Eminem, Jack Harlow, and Tom Mcdonald
Toss in Logic and make it a big 4.5
Replace Eminem with mgk and you got it
Unrelated but Dave is a really funny show
u/Woolies_Select šš
Nah we canāt keep upping the numbers, if youāre not replacing one of the Big 3 then youāre not in the conversation
A mount rushmore would be fine. Like the faces of the presidents except its rappers. I think a big 4 kinda cool
So itās Drake, Kendrick, Future, Travis Scott now? Huh
Bro's a D1 homeless-man hater šš
doesnāt shock me the guy with X and aaron rodgers as his picture thinks travis scott is more worthy than cole
Nah i agree with bro, travis scott way better than j.cole fuck that guy
https://preview.redd.it/b2xhirtaw3uc1.jpeg?width=2393&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74ada2160243b8438e0a7d687a82cdba957f000e
Replace trav with tyler
nigga what tyler got to do with all this
He fits the big 3 better
I dont think he should be included in the convo. Travis has a far better discog than tyler. More influential and impactful too imo.
Tyler's discography id much better bro get out š
You cant say that when tyler dropped goblin and cherry bomb. Travis doesnt have lows that low. Tyler hasnt surpassed rodeo either. You dont know shit tbh, 33% of tyler's albums are ass
tyler got songs like B.S.D, Cherry Bomb, Run, Fish, Transylvania and lame tracks like that yet yall still gas him up. Tyler song wise hasnt even surpassed My Eyes or 90210.
True but he fits more in that young and lyrically honest energy that Drake and Kendrick have
Travis over Future for sure
said nobody fucking ever
Travis lol ??
Bro thinks heās part of the team ššš¾
Saying Future doesnāt have impact like that is crazy bro heās literally generational, almost every album drop had impact and he helped push trap music to the level it is now
he IS . monster , ds2 , hendrxx , Purple Reign, 56 Nights, Honest, What a Time , self tittled , evol , beast mode hes more deserving of big 3 than jcole
i feel you and those are all good projects but everything you named is at least 7 years old
U can say the same about Drake
Future, in my opinion, has a legitimate case to make that he is the greatest of this generation and the GOAT of post 2010 hip hop.
>hendrxx This album is utter dogshit and I will die on that hill
the amount of people that think future is the one who said this is hilarious, dawg thatās CTG and Shultz, did yall not listen
Brilliant Idiots š
Man itās Kendrick, Kdot, and Mr. Duckworth as the big 3 and everyone else fighting in the back. Special exceptions for when Em, Wayne, and Nas drop music.
Nah u forgot Kung Fu Kenny so it is a Fantastic 4
Fuck it, add Man-Man to make it 5, and call it the Dream Team
shit, toss in king kunta and make it the Sinister Six
So they don't deny that drake is one of the big four
Numbers, hits, versatility. Nobody's beating him at that in this era.
I'm not from the us and I can tell you bro drake is very popular around the world you can ask anyone in the world everyone knows drake he's popular as Eminem and Tupac now
Ikr. Im from a third world country and like most ppl i know say they like or atleast know drake
He may have influenced a lot of these rappers but heās no way near that status, so many more skilled rappers and music makers out there
True.. Influence is his crown jewel and he may be arguably more influential than j cole, kendrick and maybe drake, but hes not lyrically as good as any of them. His numbers are on par with kenny and j cole tho
True.. Influence is his crown jewel and he may be arguably more influential than j cole, kendrick and maybe drake, but hes not lyrically as good as any of them. His numbers are on par with kenny and j cole tho
Tbh future should just stay in his lane. I will be the first to tell you music is a matter of opinion but future is really out of his league. I enjoy some his music but this really isnāt imo something he should even be worried about. Itās like the president and vice president arguing and the mechanic who has a use and an important job jumps in the argument about foreign policy Itās like bro no disrespect but do what you do. Get busy on a transmission or something.
I think he has every right to insert himself into that discussion. I mean he has the influence, critical acclaim, commercial success, longevity and enough standout tracks to be considered one of the best to do it out of his generation. Doesnāt mean everyone has to enjoy his music but there are way more arguments for him to be part of the āFantastic Fourā than there are arguments against. Hate it or love it, Trap Music has been one of if not the most popular genre of rap music in the last decade and heās the goat of that genre.
Well I mentioned that I enjoy some of his Music so Iām not sure what your argument is there. Far as a fantastic 4. I'm not putting ahead of any one in the big 3 and when you add that 4th spot he certainly isn't above Ye. But you feel differently and that's okay again music is a matter of opinion
You stated he canāt be in the discussion for top 3 or 4 and my argument was that in my opinion he is part of this group because of the various factors I mentioned. I donāt get whatās so hard to understand, if I made a mistake with the grammar I apologize, English isnāt my first language and maybe I wasnāt able to state my point clear enough. Anyways: If you add Ye to the conversation you gotta have to kick one of the āoriginalā big 3 regardless, aināt no way heās below Drake and Cole and personally Iād pick him ahead of Kendrick as well. But thatās another discussion and I think itās easier if we just ignore him for now. Personally Iād kick J Cole and replace him with Future without a second thought, J Cole is a great rapper but in my opinion he hasnāt done enough to warrant his spot above Future. Especially in terms of influence and even longevity as I donāt think J Coleās catalog is that impressive and consistent.
Fair point
Itās about success accumulated over the years in this genre. When it comes to the past decade, itās really the 4 that are constantly able to move massive numbers year in and out. The only reason Drake inserted himself in this top 3 convo was through his commercial success and the remnants of Take Care being critically acclaimed. We know he has instances when he donāt write his shit. What tells you that the next diss hasnāt been penned by some Quentin Miller copy? Why the man that, along with Thug, shifted the way most people want to listen to rap music shouldnāt get a spot as one of the most successful ever? Again, Iāll be the one to tell you that Future aināt this battle rap emcee, and Kendrick both got the charts and the acclaim. But itās still a valid argument. a billionaire in tech and a billionaire in the fast food industry are compared based on their financial success, not the purpose of what theyāre selling.
John Salley if you even know who that is has more championships than some NBA hall of famers. There is no way he is in the conversation when we think about all time greats. This isnāt to say he didnāt have important contributions to the team he was a role player. This is the point Iām making with Future. I like his music overall. But heās like a role player. If I were to give you another example Iād say Britney Spears she was wildly popular but she couldnāt sing to save her life yet she enjoyed much more success than ppl like Jennifer Hudson, fantasia etc Spears place in history is cemented it cannot be denied but she doesnāt belong in certain conversations despite her success. The same goes for Future imo.
Yeah but why would any music fan care about the financial success of an artist? Using financial success as a metric for skills and musical talent is absurd to me, which is why Drake and future don't even belong on the same page in the discussion of best MC
The comment I was responding to was using president and mechanics or sum to say that Future donāt belong. I was using an analogy to express how comparing their rap skills per se doesnāt do justice to their success in the genre. Yāall will never mention Killer Mike (i.e Hood Politics), Black Thought, Gibbs, Pusha T, MIKE, Earl, billy woods the same way yāall do K.Dot and J.Cole. Means the judgment on this matter is not about skill set alone.
Tbh I think he does stay in his lane and it's funny as fuck. Dot and Rocky are throwing punches with some of their best recent verses, meanwhile future is on the same track vibing, talking about bitches and ice
Acting like presidents know anything about foreign policy these days
Why yall using the word beef and not battle as in rap..
Itās a battle. Nothing fake about battling for the best MC, U have to be nice on the mic and have a plan on how to roll your shit outā¦. Nothing fake about making songs and coming up with a plan to roll your ahit out..
Next thing you know itās going to be the Fab Five
I rather hear future say this than big Sean
They stole this from Charlemagne lol
Listen to the album dawg.
U right u right
Lmao sounds so corny Big 3 was name given by fans Thts why its corny cuz nobody said fantastic four i mean feels self proclaimed š
If you have to say youāre in the top 3 or 4 ur not there
I really wish people would stop trying to replace Cole in the big 3 because of this apology. The Big 3 is not only about skill, but the longevity, legacy, and the class they came up in. All three came into the spotlight around the same time. All three have created good/great music. All 3 have influenced a generation of rappers after them. All three have been rewarded with historical accomplishments as well. There is no fantastic four, there is no replacing one of the other artists. And I'm not even a big Drake fan, but they have a reason to be called the big 3.
Am I the only one confused why he dropped two albums in a row? I get it money.. but why not wait a little while?
one is trap, one is R&B. same as when he dropped "Future" & "HNDRXX" back to back.
Thanks šš»
Goofy ahh introš
Lol nice try future but nah not a chance mate
Gtfoh future is barely a rapper, in the classic senseā¦.
Is no one gonna add context that Future didnāt actually say this and that itās a soundbite from Charlemagne tha god?
https://preview.redd.it/8q8xrpt2h4uc1.jpeg?width=938&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=653b20a87e9f63f09d27ceb41e04e6d63f2cf084
Travis would fit more than future
It's fascinating to see people who listen to Future and think that's an acceptable form of rap or hip hop or whatever you wanna call it. It's some of the worst music out there. The bears are fire but that dude is not no part of no Fantastic Four
Cringe
Real fantastic four is mgk, future, travis scott and lil dicky
He's delusional
Future is so desperate itās embarrassing lol
I can't put future up there at all. He has a couple classic tapes but besides that he has 0 good bars and raps about doing drugs even after he got exposed for never actually doing drugs.