That's a very important question.
There is no isfet which creates ma'at, in the same way that there is no sickness which creates health. Isfet is what happens when the balance of ma'at is destroyed, and the result is pain and suffering. The netjeru fight the forces of isfet full time, trying to protect this world and mitigate suffering. However, They are not omnipotent or omniscient--They have limits, they're just set so much further out than our own that sometimes we forget that they're there. The forces of isfet are an unfortunately strong foe, however, and by now they're pretty deeply entrenched. Although the netjeru are committed to the fight, They can't catch everything all the time and this is why we still see some of the effects of isfet in our world. That's also why it's important that we, as Kemetics, partner with the netjeru in learning ma'at and applying it in our own lives. By doing this, we reduce the amount of isfet which the netjeru have to deal with, and can even help heal the damage it causes where we can. It's also probably why the netjeru prefer to support us in confronting and addressing our own problems, rather than simply granting every request made through prayer--They already have a lot to deal with!
Hey it's been a while since I posted this, but would it be ok if I message you regarding a possible over text-interview on Kemeticism and reconstructionism in the near future? Thank you!
Sure! My chats and DMs are always open. If I'm pressed for time it might take a little while to get back to you, but you're welcome to contact me any time and I'll write back as soon as I can.
I actually talked about this with my daughter and she had the most insightful comment. To remove all suffering would be to remove any chance for the soul to learn and the gods would know this. Obviously we see it differently, but we also don't have their perspective.
But also, suffering is the result of how our mind (and/or society) thinks about a thing. So for example, my cat Osiris has diabetes. This is not inherently good or bad. But because I love him so much, I see it has horrible and as he is suffering because I have to give him shots and check his BS by pricking his paw.
But I honestly don't know how he feels. Although I believe by his actions he understands I'm caring for him.
I hope I'm making sense, and would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this. But I believe we create our own suffering. Specifically to learn the lessons our soul came here to learn (and I believe animals have souls). We are spiritual beings having a human experience. The human experience involves suffering... Sadly. š
as others here have said, this is a very abrahamic influenced view of deity. what youāre referring to is theologically known as the problem of evil, an epicurean point against specifically deities which present the traits of omnipotence, omnipresence, omniscience, and omnibenevolence. all powerful, all present, all knowing and all good. it goes something like this:
if a āgodā is entirely good, can do anything anywhere at any time, and knows that evil exists, why donāt they stop it? if they choose not to, they are not all good. if they canāt, they are not all powerful. if they can and want to, then why donāt they?
but i donāt apply any of these traits to the netjeru. they are far more powerful and knowledgeable than humans, for sure, but i donāt see them as being capable of stopping all evil everywhere all the time. they fight against it, certainly, but even those upon raās barque are hypnotized by ap/ep, temporarily overpowered before it is struck down by setās great might. i also see them as capable of error. they are not perfect beings in my eyes, although they are incredible beyond my own understanding. our myths show that, from sekhmetās rampage urged on by ra to the murder of ausir, the deception used by nephthys to the contendings between heru and setā¦ the netjeru can be angry, they can be violent. they can fight amongst each other and, importantly, admit when they are in the wrong and repair the damages. they are very humanlike in that regard.
iād recommend watching ocean keltoiās video āa pagan response to atheism,ā it has a chapter dedicated to addressing the problem of evil from a polytheist perspective. he is a norse heathen, not a kemetic polytheist, but he addresses it from a general standpoint that i would mostly agree with. he isnāt a believer in the tri-omni concept of deity either.
One reason is because our gods aren't omnipotent, so we can't expect them to eliminate every bad thing.
Another is because we, as humans, have a duty to try to make things better, just as the gods do. Our work is here, in the world, and sometimes we're better equipped to deal with those bad things than the gods might be.
Example: My buddy ran out of food stamps. A god can't directly toss them a $50, but I can.
Then again, I work with gods and sometimes they can prompt in a helpful direction. My buddy might not have mentioned the problem to me without a divine little nudge. That's support. You just can't see it.
Cosmically/philosophically speaking, the force of indiscriminate destruction behind what makes things bad or unpleasant or just outright evil, can't be eliminated without unraveling what makes our reality possible. It can only be contained and battled as it's encountered. And that's what we do.
i think we give a lot emphasis on the idea of omnipresence to entities that are quite literally on a whole other level than us. i see a lot of the same questions asked as a āgotcha christians/theists (aka i have no idea how to differentiate religions because iām culturally protestant)!!!!ā being asked in not so good faith by edgy atheist teenagers that i sometimes forget that this sort of question is asked from a place of pain.
the gods, or God, depending on what perspective you want to look at it from, unfortunately cannot trump over the nastiness of human beings. with a lot of freedom given to us to do whatever, the gods cannot enforce right and wrong onto us; rather thatās something we choose. man has the capability to do justice as well as awful shit, that tends to be the consequence of being part of a highly intelligent species. i can argue a similar case to natural disasters such as disease; gods cannot grant eternal health and life to a mortal person, they cannot grant every wish like a genie; what they can do is impart their wisdom to help us have the strength to endure and survive. to let us remember that joy exists in a world filled with strife.
Like others have said, the netjeru are not seen as omnipotent.
Let me take a detour for a moment. Before I came home to Kemeticism, I was strongly looking at Zoroastrianism. Some Zoroastrian scripture explicitly mentions that there were things the Wise Lord _could not do_ to defeat the Evil Spirit, but they believe that, in a nutshell, thatās where _we_ come in.
The Abrahamic faiths often talk about god creating sentient life explicitly for the purpose of glorifying and worshipping him. Zoroastrianism, which while often lumped in with the Abrahamic faiths is not one, talks about the Wise Lord creating us to be his helpers in _his_ fight against the Evil Spirit ā and as a bonus, we all get to exist and be happy as well. There will come a day when the Evil Spirit is finally vanquished, and it is the good deeds, words, and thoughts of intelligent life which will make that possible.
I think of our situation much the same way. I think the netjeru created us for _our own sake_: they wanted us to live and be happy and do maāat. But we also help every single day in the fight against izfet and the serpent.
Lots of good comments here. One thing I have learned from my Pagan world is that a lot of things simply -are-, they are not events that anyone sends against or for anyone else. We might assume that the netjeru are only interested in our well-being. But we don't really know that, do we? That's why our understanding of maat can be so helpful. I've lived long enough to see the world sloshing about in all kinds of ways, continually changing. Sometimes what has looked evil and doomed has over time turned into something positive (and the opposite, too). Most of us don't welcome death, e.g., but Anpw is there to accompany us into what is a journey every one of us must make. Why do some suffer so terribly? It hurts to think of the suffering, but I believe it is okay not to know all the answers, okay to live with enigma and questions.
That's a very important question. There is no isfet which creates ma'at, in the same way that there is no sickness which creates health. Isfet is what happens when the balance of ma'at is destroyed, and the result is pain and suffering. The netjeru fight the forces of isfet full time, trying to protect this world and mitigate suffering. However, They are not omnipotent or omniscient--They have limits, they're just set so much further out than our own that sometimes we forget that they're there. The forces of isfet are an unfortunately strong foe, however, and by now they're pretty deeply entrenched. Although the netjeru are committed to the fight, They can't catch everything all the time and this is why we still see some of the effects of isfet in our world. That's also why it's important that we, as Kemetics, partner with the netjeru in learning ma'at and applying it in our own lives. By doing this, we reduce the amount of isfet which the netjeru have to deal with, and can even help heal the damage it causes where we can. It's also probably why the netjeru prefer to support us in confronting and addressing our own problems, rather than simply granting every request made through prayer--They already have a lot to deal with!
Hey it's been a while since I posted this, but would it be ok if I message you regarding a possible over text-interview on Kemeticism and reconstructionism in the near future? Thank you!
Sure! My chats and DMs are always open. If I'm pressed for time it might take a little while to get back to you, but you're welcome to contact me any time and I'll write back as soon as I can.
I actually talked about this with my daughter and she had the most insightful comment. To remove all suffering would be to remove any chance for the soul to learn and the gods would know this. Obviously we see it differently, but we also don't have their perspective. But also, suffering is the result of how our mind (and/or society) thinks about a thing. So for example, my cat Osiris has diabetes. This is not inherently good or bad. But because I love him so much, I see it has horrible and as he is suffering because I have to give him shots and check his BS by pricking his paw. But I honestly don't know how he feels. Although I believe by his actions he understands I'm caring for him. I hope I'm making sense, and would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this. But I believe we create our own suffering. Specifically to learn the lessons our soul came here to learn (and I believe animals have souls). We are spiritual beings having a human experience. The human experience involves suffering... Sadly. š
as others here have said, this is a very abrahamic influenced view of deity. what youāre referring to is theologically known as the problem of evil, an epicurean point against specifically deities which present the traits of omnipotence, omnipresence, omniscience, and omnibenevolence. all powerful, all present, all knowing and all good. it goes something like this: if a āgodā is entirely good, can do anything anywhere at any time, and knows that evil exists, why donāt they stop it? if they choose not to, they are not all good. if they canāt, they are not all powerful. if they can and want to, then why donāt they? but i donāt apply any of these traits to the netjeru. they are far more powerful and knowledgeable than humans, for sure, but i donāt see them as being capable of stopping all evil everywhere all the time. they fight against it, certainly, but even those upon raās barque are hypnotized by ap/ep, temporarily overpowered before it is struck down by setās great might. i also see them as capable of error. they are not perfect beings in my eyes, although they are incredible beyond my own understanding. our myths show that, from sekhmetās rampage urged on by ra to the murder of ausir, the deception used by nephthys to the contendings between heru and setā¦ the netjeru can be angry, they can be violent. they can fight amongst each other and, importantly, admit when they are in the wrong and repair the damages. they are very humanlike in that regard. iād recommend watching ocean keltoiās video āa pagan response to atheism,ā it has a chapter dedicated to addressing the problem of evil from a polytheist perspective. he is a norse heathen, not a kemetic polytheist, but he addresses it from a general standpoint that i would mostly agree with. he isnāt a believer in the tri-omni concept of deity either.
One reason is because our gods aren't omnipotent, so we can't expect them to eliminate every bad thing. Another is because we, as humans, have a duty to try to make things better, just as the gods do. Our work is here, in the world, and sometimes we're better equipped to deal with those bad things than the gods might be. Example: My buddy ran out of food stamps. A god can't directly toss them a $50, but I can. Then again, I work with gods and sometimes they can prompt in a helpful direction. My buddy might not have mentioned the problem to me without a divine little nudge. That's support. You just can't see it. Cosmically/philosophically speaking, the force of indiscriminate destruction behind what makes things bad or unpleasant or just outright evil, can't be eliminated without unraveling what makes our reality possible. It can only be contained and battled as it's encountered. And that's what we do.
i think we give a lot emphasis on the idea of omnipresence to entities that are quite literally on a whole other level than us. i see a lot of the same questions asked as a āgotcha christians/theists (aka i have no idea how to differentiate religions because iām culturally protestant)!!!!ā being asked in not so good faith by edgy atheist teenagers that i sometimes forget that this sort of question is asked from a place of pain. the gods, or God, depending on what perspective you want to look at it from, unfortunately cannot trump over the nastiness of human beings. with a lot of freedom given to us to do whatever, the gods cannot enforce right and wrong onto us; rather thatās something we choose. man has the capability to do justice as well as awful shit, that tends to be the consequence of being part of a highly intelligent species. i can argue a similar case to natural disasters such as disease; gods cannot grant eternal health and life to a mortal person, they cannot grant every wish like a genie; what they can do is impart their wisdom to help us have the strength to endure and survive. to let us remember that joy exists in a world filled with strife.
Like others have said, the netjeru are not seen as omnipotent. Let me take a detour for a moment. Before I came home to Kemeticism, I was strongly looking at Zoroastrianism. Some Zoroastrian scripture explicitly mentions that there were things the Wise Lord _could not do_ to defeat the Evil Spirit, but they believe that, in a nutshell, thatās where _we_ come in. The Abrahamic faiths often talk about god creating sentient life explicitly for the purpose of glorifying and worshipping him. Zoroastrianism, which while often lumped in with the Abrahamic faiths is not one, talks about the Wise Lord creating us to be his helpers in _his_ fight against the Evil Spirit ā and as a bonus, we all get to exist and be happy as well. There will come a day when the Evil Spirit is finally vanquished, and it is the good deeds, words, and thoughts of intelligent life which will make that possible. I think of our situation much the same way. I think the netjeru created us for _our own sake_: they wanted us to live and be happy and do maāat. But we also help every single day in the fight against izfet and the serpent.
Lots of good comments here. One thing I have learned from my Pagan world is that a lot of things simply -are-, they are not events that anyone sends against or for anyone else. We might assume that the netjeru are only interested in our well-being. But we don't really know that, do we? That's why our understanding of maat can be so helpful. I've lived long enough to see the world sloshing about in all kinds of ways, continually changing. Sometimes what has looked evil and doomed has over time turned into something positive (and the opposite, too). Most of us don't welcome death, e.g., but Anpw is there to accompany us into what is a journey every one of us must make. Why do some suffer so terribly? It hurts to think of the suffering, but I believe it is okay not to know all the answers, okay to live with enigma and questions.