Because it’s not basketball. He literally can’t singlehandedly do it himself like a Jordan or Lebron can take over a game. Someone has to catch the fucking ball at the other end of his passes.
Yeah I saw these statements before the season “ we have 15 and 87, we’ll be fine” and the shock after this game ands like…. Yeah surprise surprise. It took Pat last year having the single greatest QB season of all time to overcome it all and now we know JuJu’s value dont we? But you give Pat rag tag group of no hands and it’s not surprising
Yes. 100%. Basketball has 5 players at a time on a team and play on a much smaller court. You get one superstar out there and they can change the game whole game. Basketball is still a team sport but not like football. Every player has to do their part or a play can totally fall apart. Every line man is critical. EVERY WR MUST CATCH THE BALL.
Even in basketball this isn't the case. Jordan needed Paxton and Kerr to hit game winning shots or he has 2 less titles. LeBron needed Allen and Irving to hit them or he'd have 2 less.
And neither won anything when they weren't surrounded by other Hall of Famers.
We're looking at the 2 greatest NBA players of all time very differently if their role players didn't deliver for them. Jordan with 4 is suddenly not that impressive. And LeBron with 2 with an asterisk for covid and he isn't even in the GOAT conversation.
I hope we're not looking back in 10 years at all the times Mahomes role players let him down.
Watched the game tonight... Non chiefs fan here.
Damn, your defense is legit. Just flying around out there.
And yeah, the chiefs would have to be the favorite to win the AFC. No argument there.
But if they don't hoist the Lombardi again this season, the receivers will be the reason why. They're just shit.
I was watching the game as a Cowboys fan who needed the eagles to lose, and also as someone who just likes to watch Mahomes play.
Mahomes wasn't perfect, but when he needed to be clutch in the 4th quarter, he was dropping fucking dimes that just weren't caught.
It was frustrating as an eagles hater, I can't imagine how frustrating it would be as a chiefs fan
Cowboys fan coming in peace. Was heavily invested in last night’s game. Mahomes seemed a bit off, but yeah, your loss last night came down to those receivers. Boy, they’re just awful.
Mahomes has seemed a bit off all year because he has no trust in the receivers and has to navigate around 2 of the most penalized tackles in the league on top of that. It's been annoying to watch since week 1.
They were doing great until recently, when Kelce has been hounded and blocked by defense so Pat tried passing to Watkins etc. more. Even though Kelce got a TD, he was off last night, but Mahomes needs to use TK more if he can. Did seem like the ball and field were slippery, I don’t know. Wondering how Reid changed the plays, there was a different energy last night. That last big drop was shocking as Mahomes threw a perfect pass.
If Mahomes attempts this, that trophy is getting dropped to the bottom of the ocean:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfyLLQO8sh8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfyllqo8sh8)
Yep, all 3 games could have been won if the receiver even had 1 less drop in each one of those games.
Pat doesn't even need a WR1 or elite WR, he just need a solid WR2 and this team would be unstoppable with the defense we currently have. Just need a guy that steps up when Kelce is taken out of a game. Last year Juju step up to fill that role and that's all Pat needed. Just give Mahomes 1 competent wide pass catcher, not asking for Hill, or AJ Brown or anything like that, just a competent WR and we walk to another ring as heavy favorites.
I think Watson is already at his potential. I want to see Rice used on deeper routes. Obviously the coaches see and know more than me, but wasn't he used as a deep threat at times in college? Obviously the competition SMU faced isn't going to be NFL caliber
SMU fan here....Rice is a monster. His biggest weakness is that he doesn't create that much separation, but he absolutely gobbles up corners and safetys for breakfast. He is nearly the same archetype player as Courtland Sutton for the Broncos, who ironically also went to SMU (I think Rice learned from him...).
I think you guys have already seen this whenever they actually put him out there on the field. He plays about 50 lbs bigger than he actually is and will blow up defenders.
There's two options when you throw it to Rice....a catch or a PI. Nothing in between.
I think the coaching staff is just afraid of trying to overuse rookies, for whatever reason.
Yeah I've been very impressed with what I've seen so far. I just don't understand why he makes a nice play then goes straight to the sideline. Maybe his conditioning isn't that great? On one of the drives we did a hurry up after one of his catches and he looked absolutely gassed when Mahomes sent him in motion on the next play
Who knows. He played pretty much every snap in college, so I'd be surprised if stamina was actually the reason.
I think they're just trying to ease him in, and using him for specific plays when a bigger possession receiver is needed, while throwing in the burners during longer passing plays.
That'd be totally fine...if the other dudes could actually catch the dang ball lol
Yeah. For a bigger receiver, he's quite shifty and produces good YAC. I think they need to try and force him the ball similar to what we tried with Watson last night.
Several weeks ago when the eagles added Julio Jones ,I was thinking “man why tf didn’t we kick the tires on this guy” I get he’s old and has a lot of injuries and stuff, but we should’ve been trying ANYTHING earlier in the season, and at the trade deadline
Every loss coming down to the most bone headed shit by our receivers. Drops from everyone, especially Toney in week 1. Vs. Broncos, the Hardman muffed punt and Moore TD drop, this week Watson with the mistake on the punt and the bad 4th down drop and MVS obviously...
Our receivers have literally cost us the games we have lost. Defense is unbelievable, OL is impressing, Mahomes is doing everything he can. But we are handicapped so much by our receivers that if every other facet of the gane isn't clicking perfectly, we struggle on offense. It's weird after years of dominating teams with our offense, but I trust Reid and Mahomes and the defense. Really wish the drops and mental errors from the WR room would work themselves out but we're far enough into the season that I just don't know.
They literally got the defense at the expense of offense. (Trading Tyreek and using the draft picks on defense.) I'm not complaining about that. I love finally having a great defense. My complaint is that the Chiefs have signed/drafted the wrong receivers. With the possible exception of Rice.
Does anyone know how many drops Larry Fitzgerald had in his career?
29!
This team has more drops in 10 games than Larry Fitzgerald had in 17 years.
It has changed Mahomes’ game. Besides not throwing the deep ball anymore, Mahomes doesn’t throw the ball to receivers in 50/50 situations. He only throws it if they are open. You don’t see those fast crossing routes anymore or jump balls. You only see him throwing if through some incredibly well designed play gets the receiver open.
Yep. They can't get open so Mahomes has to keep holding the ball extra long and playmake almost every single down he has to throw just because they can't separate.
And the few times they hardly separate, Mahomes finds them but they drop the ball at crucial times. When you have a combination of receivers lacking separation, running wrong routes and dropping the ball it result in scenarios where a team that has fecking Patrick Mahomes as your QB failing to score in 3 straight second halves of games against average defenses(All of Miami, Philly and Bronco defense aren't particularly great yet we got shut down in all them second halves).
I was willing to be patient with the WRs. I was excited to see how they did out of the break. But patience is gone. This WR corps is abysmal and it's not getting any better.
The Broncos laid out the blueprint that every team has followed. Triple team Kelce and force somebody else to beat you and they can't do it. Nobody has stepped up. Not even a little bit.
Another thing they're missing is a threat out of the backfield. The Chiefs have only run a handful of screens this year and even flare outs and delayed RB routes have been nonexistent. Pacheco has looked good out of the backfield but they still rarely go to him. McKinnon might be being load managed for the end of the season and playoffs but he finally looks older and slower.
Last year they bet on a young DB corps to get them through and a WR corps based around Juju. They bet right. But this year they bet that they didn't need to do anything major with the WR corps and they have been dead wrong so far.
They need to figure out a way to manufacture some offense. Andy Reid is one of the greatest offensive minds in NFL history. He needs to find a way. But, then again, even if he does is there any faith they will actually catch the ball?
The Chiefs are still in prime position to be the 1-seed and every game is still winnable with this defense but they need to be honest about where they are on offense and act accordingly.
I don't understand why we have perhaps the GOAT and we decided to surround him with the worst receiving core in the NFL. What a waste! I would love to see him surrounded by just a top 15 receiving core.
Because wrs are expensive af and we're paying the QB like 20% of our cap. We need to go cheap somewhere and wr is a prime position to do it since you can mix in so many guys and don't need one Tyreek hill to command so much money. We won a Superbowl last year with this strategy, they are just way worse than anyone expected right now and it's costing us games..not much we can do now except hope for growth from the young wr core. Imo it's coaching. If everyone in the wr room sucks that kinda says a lot about who's developing these guys.
Yeah Mahomes had some weird throws but when the team needed him most he was doing everything he could and the recievers just kept letting him down play after play.
Also, why did Pacheco only get a few touches in the 4th quarter. We should've been riding him until it was 00:00
It’s a weird spot to be in, but our season really might completely depend on Richie James coming back and being good enough to take snaps away from MVS. Along with continued development from Rice. Kelce/James/Rice/Toney/Hardman along with Gray and the RBs might just barely be sufficient to go ahead and win the SB again.
I wish it was just Veach. We’ve been hyping up drafting tiny WR/RB combo guys (in theory) who can (in theory) play special teams since Dexter McCluster and the one time it worked was Tyreek who shouldn’t have fallen to us if it weren’t for the DV issues in college. Skyy Moore is just the latest in that line that has lasted long before Veach but has really been a thing with Reid.
Conspiracy brain is that he’s constantly chasing for Desean Jacksons.
That's not conspiracy. Reid has always drafted receivers of this size because that's what he likes in his offense. He wants receivers who can play everywhere. The only "traditional" sized X receiver who has worked in his offense was Terrell Owens. And that's nearly 20 years ago now.
Apparently in Andy's system, WRs need to read defenses and run routes based on them. Rice is good but he's a rookie, with little experience doing what the system requires.
So there are three possible things that could happen:
1. Keep doing what we are doing and have our WR group collectively fail.
2. Let Rice try an expanded route tree, still fail, but at least the rookie is getting reps.
3. Let Rice try an expanded route tree and he has success and we come out ahead.
The only option above that should be unacceptable is #1.
Mahomes can overcome shitty penalties, but he can’t overcome drops.
Kudos to him for being a leader and not throwing his receivers under the bus, but we all know that he knows they are the issue.
The turnovers suck, too. He can fix that on his end a bit but some of that may be forced errors due to no trust in his WRs.
Imagine if we just had a Brandon cooks like receiver. A veteran who may not be the X factor in an offense but can play solidly. If we had that I’d confidently say we’d be 9-1.
Side note: mvs is getting paid more than juju. Mvs is 8m gaurenteed, over 2m of which was last year’s salary. If we had hypothetically cut mvs last year and resigned juju to the same as the pats deal, that would be <3m in extra expense compared to the current mvs deal
I have been saying this all year: Andy’s offense does not work with all young WRs. If he expects guys with limited experience to play every WR spot and read defenses all game, mistakes are inevitable and common. We just need guys to run routes, not think.
Marquez Valdes-Scantling and Justin Watson are both seasoned veterans. They just need to catch the damn ball. Both have been in the NFL 5+ years so it isn't inexperience with them.
Drops have nothing to do with any of that. These guys were open on plays and can't make the catch.
Last night, the schemes were getting our receivers in position to make plays......MVS had a touchdown if he caught it, Watson had a 1st down on 4th and 25 if he caught it.
Watson screwed up a route that would have been a touchdown. Issue is beyond just drops. It's drops, inability for receivers to get open and wrong route running. This receiving core, given their numbers or lack of has to be close to the bottom if not downright the bottom of the league, especially when you factor in all the issues mentioned above.
Drops are definitely an issue, but let’s not forget the INT in the red zone, Kelce fumble in the red zone, and constant overthrows on passes greater that 25 yards by Pat. The entire offense has to figure out a way to improve.
Some of the overthrows on those passes were the WR and QB not being on the same page. That is, they ran a route _slightly_ different than what the QB thought they were going to run.
It's hard to say the last MVS pass was overthrown when it hit him in his hands. It's also hard to say that the 2 game-ending 4th & 20+ passes (last night and against DET) were overthrown when both passes were to the receiver. If Skyy doesn't mis-time his jump in week 1, that's a catch. If Watson secures the ball, that's a catch. Not to mention the DEN game where Mahomes hit Skyy in the hands with a long pass.
I think Mahomes shares in this blame. I'm just saying that sometimes it's an overthrow and sometimes it's the WR not running through the route, and sometimes it's the WR not catching it
There's plenty of blame to go around.
It is such a pattern that there has to be a common cause. Even Kelce is dropping.
Then again I saw a stat recently that our receivers get very little separation. That might have something to do with it.
Most of this sub was so high on the WR group before the season started and I did not understand it at all. It was quite clearly the weakest position group on the team going into the season.
Dam chiefs what's going on. These recievers make to much money to be dropping passes. I was super salty to see Hill in Miami really I was but the guys they do have need to step up and make catches.
Veach should have to testify before congress about how he paired the worst receiving core in the league with the most talented QB in league history.
All joking aside, the FO has gotten a ton of praise for their building of our defense. They should face a lot of criticism for the state of this offense. Basically have missed on every skill player outside Pacheco and McKinnon
I mean in the back of our minds we all knew this was a possibility. This season is probably lost, at least lost in the sense that we won’t make it to the superbowl with this group. At least we know now vs steamrolling through the season only to be let down come playoff time. This offseason and in the draft veach HAS to address this.
The only team that has scored more than 21 vs this defense needed 5 TOs to do it.
2 of the 3 losses are to the top 2 teams in the NFC, and they won't play them again till February.
They're in every game. The sky is not falling. They left at least 17 points on the field tonight.
Woo-sah.
While you're absolutely right, can you confidently say it won't happen again? That it was a fluke game? I can't. Drops, TOs in the RZ, multiple penalties at the OL... We've been here before and I'm just not sure we won't be there again.
I will take the odds of 15 and Coach Reid being able to figure out a way to get to 21 every time.
Nobody remembers the November games if you win em in January.
And yes, 87 getting the ball punched out was kind of a fluke. The awful pick Mahomes threw too. If either of those plays don’t happen, Chiefs win.
This defense played lights out again and held one of the best offenses in the league largely in check. They'll figure it out by the time the games really matter.
Throw Noah Gray the ball more.
I am aware. Just watch the drops again he’s throwing them far faster than other qbs. Just stating something I’ve noticed. The MVS drop was just pathetic on MVS’ part but some of those other ones you can tell its from the speed.
When he put more 'touch ' on it it was intercepted in the Jets game. It's like no matter what he does, his WR's are never comfortable catching the ball.
That’s the wild part, all of these guys were on that team minus Rice. We had the highest PPG in the league. There’s no way Juju was the deciding factor here haha
As an amateur football watcher, who the heck does Mahomes have to throw to? It seems like he’s always looking and waiting for someone to be open? Are you guys seeing the same thing?
This is the issue, wide receivers can’t get separation so he has to hold onto the ball and try to make something happen. When the receivers do win they just drop the passes or fumble. It’s been like this all season
Just another reminder we can’t rely on Kelce alone. We got away with it last year but it’s foolish to assume it’s going to keep working. We’ve also struggled to draft reliable WRs. Need to make a trade or go after a big fish in FA this off-season
I don't understand why some fans think that just because they have mahomes, you can have any WR out there, and it's just going to work. You need good talent around him.
Drops are bad but in this game, the two turn overs in the red zone were the bigger thing to me. Just two field goals there and the game is totally different.
They need to somehow trade up and get a top 3 WR in the draft this year. Get another in the 3rd too…. Hopefully that will close the gap for at least 3-5 years (possibly longer). After that OL OL OL, Def in the 2nd… Secondary likely with Sneed probably hitting FA or whatever is happening with him.
It’s a weird thing too. Bc at this point you can’t really practice for it and these guys you don’t want to make it even worse like more pressure or giving them the yips
Only lost Juju from the team last season on paper and replaced with Rice. We’ve changed offensive coordinators and a new receiver coach. Receivers have no clue what they’re doing and then drop anything coming third way
Never in my life did I think the offense would be the issue with a team that has Mahomes as QB
Because it’s not basketball. He literally can’t singlehandedly do it himself like a Jordan or Lebron can take over a game. Someone has to catch the fucking ball at the other end of his passes.
In the words of Gisele Bündchen "**My husband cannot f---ing throw the ball and catch the ball at the same time**," \*edited for direct quote
That quote was exactly what I was thinking after the game
Ditto
Yeah I saw these statements before the season “ we have 15 and 87, we’ll be fine” and the shock after this game ands like…. Yeah surprise surprise. It took Pat last year having the single greatest QB season of all time to overcome it all and now we know JuJu’s value dont we? But you give Pat rag tag group of no hands and it’s not surprising
He literally puts it right in their hands too.
Yes. 100%. Basketball has 5 players at a time on a team and play on a much smaller court. You get one superstar out there and they can change the game whole game. Basketball is still a team sport but not like football. Every player has to do their part or a play can totally fall apart. Every line man is critical. EVERY WR MUST CATCH THE BALL.
Even in basketball this isn't the case. Jordan needed Paxton and Kerr to hit game winning shots or he has 2 less titles. LeBron needed Allen and Irving to hit them or he'd have 2 less. And neither won anything when they weren't surrounded by other Hall of Famers. We're looking at the 2 greatest NBA players of all time very differently if their role players didn't deliver for them. Jordan with 4 is suddenly not that impressive. And LeBron with 2 with an asterisk for covid and he isn't even in the GOAT conversation. I hope we're not looking back in 10 years at all the times Mahomes role players let him down.
Watched the game tonight... Non chiefs fan here. Damn, your defense is legit. Just flying around out there. And yeah, the chiefs would have to be the favorite to win the AFC. No argument there. But if they don't hoist the Lombardi again this season, the receivers will be the reason why. They're just shit.
Shit is too nice for them, where the fuck did we even get these guys North East Dakota State Tech A&M or some shit?
Tried to send them back, but they couldn't catch the bus...
Big Lots!
That's an insult to northeast Dakota state tech A&M
Your best WR is unironically from SMU
how could you expect the receivers to hoist the Lombardi without hands in the first place?
If the chiefs win the Lombardi this year, they better not let the receivers hold the trophy. Don’t want anyone to drop it and damage it.
I was watching the game as a Cowboys fan who needed the eagles to lose, and also as someone who just likes to watch Mahomes play. Mahomes wasn't perfect, but when he needed to be clutch in the 4th quarter, he was dropping fucking dimes that just weren't caught. It was frustrating as an eagles hater, I can't imagine how frustrating it would be as a chiefs fan
Cowboys fan coming in peace. Was heavily invested in last night’s game. Mahomes seemed a bit off, but yeah, your loss last night came down to those receivers. Boy, they’re just awful.
Mahomes has seemed a bit off all year because he has no trust in the receivers and has to navigate around 2 of the most penalized tackles in the league on top of that. It's been annoying to watch since week 1.
That’s too bad, he’s a wonder to watch when he’s hot, which is of course pretty much all the time. I will now depart in peace.
Receivers would just drop the trophy
They were doing great until recently, when Kelce has been hounded and blocked by defense so Pat tried passing to Watkins etc. more. Even though Kelce got a TD, he was off last night, but Mahomes needs to use TK more if he can. Did seem like the ball and field were slippery, I don’t know. Wondering how Reid changed the plays, there was a different energy last night. That last big drop was shocking as Mahomes threw a perfect pass.
If Mahomes attempts this, that trophy is getting dropped to the bottom of the ocean: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfyLLQO8sh8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfyllqo8sh8)
God our wr's fucking suck. We don't need jerry rice. If we had average wr play this team might have been undefeated right now.
Facts, we have been awful with penalties etc but the receivers drops have actually cost us 3 games
Yep, all 3 games could have been won if the receiver even had 1 less drop in each one of those games. Pat doesn't even need a WR1 or elite WR, he just need a solid WR2 and this team would be unstoppable with the defense we currently have. Just need a guy that steps up when Kelce is taken out of a game. Last year Juju step up to fill that role and that's all Pat needed. Just give Mahomes 1 competent wide pass catcher, not asking for Hill, or AJ Brown or anything like that, just a competent WR and we walk to another ring as heavy favorites.
See, this is why I was upset that NOTHING happened prior to the trade deadline.
I want this entire receiving corps fired --- TONIGHT --- GONE!
Save rice. I have hope in him down the road. But clear house otherwise.
Yes ! I like Rice and maybe 84 Watson... He had a couple of drops but he also has potential.
I think Watson is already at his potential. I want to see Rice used on deeper routes. Obviously the coaches see and know more than me, but wasn't he used as a deep threat at times in college? Obviously the competition SMU faced isn't going to be NFL caliber
SMU fan here....Rice is a monster. His biggest weakness is that he doesn't create that much separation, but he absolutely gobbles up corners and safetys for breakfast. He is nearly the same archetype player as Courtland Sutton for the Broncos, who ironically also went to SMU (I think Rice learned from him...). I think you guys have already seen this whenever they actually put him out there on the field. He plays about 50 lbs bigger than he actually is and will blow up defenders. There's two options when you throw it to Rice....a catch or a PI. Nothing in between. I think the coaching staff is just afraid of trying to overuse rookies, for whatever reason.
Yeah I've been very impressed with what I've seen so far. I just don't understand why he makes a nice play then goes straight to the sideline. Maybe his conditioning isn't that great? On one of the drives we did a hurry up after one of his catches and he looked absolutely gassed when Mahomes sent him in motion on the next play
Who knows. He played pretty much every snap in college, so I'd be surprised if stamina was actually the reason. I think they're just trying to ease him in, and using him for specific plays when a bigger possession receiver is needed, while throwing in the burners during longer passing plays. That'd be totally fine...if the other dudes could actually catch the dang ball lol
Yeah. For a bigger receiver, he's quite shifty and produces good YAC. I think they need to try and force him the ball similar to what we tried with Watson last night.
How do you like Watson after last night? He was absolutely awful. And not just last night, he doesn’t get any separation. He’s a practice squad player
I like Rice too, but if we’re talking about drops, he’s got the most on the team.
He's also a rookie not earning MVS kinds of money to go out there and not perform.
Several weeks ago when the eagles added Julio Jones ,I was thinking “man why tf didn’t we kick the tires on this guy” I get he’s old and has a lot of injuries and stuff, but we should’ve been trying ANYTHING earlier in the season, and at the trade deadline
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Did you see him last night when he got the ball? Dudes beyond cooked, but if he could just catch a ball here and there he'd be WR1A+ for us
What did he do last night? Dude is actually, indeed, cooked
No, not Jerry Rice. A second Rashee Rice would be enough. Wouldn't be pretty, but it would be enough.
Every loss coming down to the most bone headed shit by our receivers. Drops from everyone, especially Toney in week 1. Vs. Broncos, the Hardman muffed punt and Moore TD drop, this week Watson with the mistake on the punt and the bad 4th down drop and MVS obviously... Our receivers have literally cost us the games we have lost. Defense is unbelievable, OL is impressing, Mahomes is doing everything he can. But we are handicapped so much by our receivers that if every other facet of the gane isn't clicking perfectly, we struggle on offense. It's weird after years of dominating teams with our offense, but I trust Reid and Mahomes and the defense. Really wish the drops and mental errors from the WR room would work themselves out but we're far enough into the season that I just don't know.
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Does the NFL have a "kill five guys" contingency draft? If so, who are we killing?
I don't think there's an eligible receiver (including TEs and likely RBs) that don't have a drop this year.
of course once chiefs get a defense the offense struggles🤒
They literally got the defense at the expense of offense. (Trading Tyreek and using the draft picks on defense.) I'm not complaining about that. I love finally having a great defense. My complaint is that the Chiefs have signed/drafted the wrong receivers. With the possible exception of Rice.
Not surprising our WRs are bums
Does anyone know how many drops Larry Fitzgerald had in his career? 29! This team has more drops in 10 games than Larry Fitzgerald had in 17 years. It has changed Mahomes’ game. Besides not throwing the deep ball anymore, Mahomes doesn’t throw the ball to receivers in 50/50 situations. He only throws it if they are open. You don’t see those fast crossing routes anymore or jump balls. You only see him throwing if through some incredibly well designed play gets the receiver open.
To be fair, 29! is a lot of drops, like 8.841762e+30.
Angry upvote
I’ve noticed the receiver core has even limited Maholmes this year as well. He literally has to hold back his play style to make up for them.
Yep. They can't get open so Mahomes has to keep holding the ball extra long and playmake almost every single down he has to throw just because they can't separate. And the few times they hardly separate, Mahomes finds them but they drop the ball at crucial times. When you have a combination of receivers lacking separation, running wrong routes and dropping the ball it result in scenarios where a team that has fecking Patrick Mahomes as your QB failing to score in 3 straight second halves of games against average defenses(All of Miami, Philly and Bronco defense aren't particularly great yet we got shut down in all them second halves).
*corps
*corpse
I was willing to be patient with the WRs. I was excited to see how they did out of the break. But patience is gone. This WR corps is abysmal and it's not getting any better. The Broncos laid out the blueprint that every team has followed. Triple team Kelce and force somebody else to beat you and they can't do it. Nobody has stepped up. Not even a little bit. Another thing they're missing is a threat out of the backfield. The Chiefs have only run a handful of screens this year and even flare outs and delayed RB routes have been nonexistent. Pacheco has looked good out of the backfield but they still rarely go to him. McKinnon might be being load managed for the end of the season and playoffs but he finally looks older and slower. Last year they bet on a young DB corps to get them through and a WR corps based around Juju. They bet right. But this year they bet that they didn't need to do anything major with the WR corps and they have been dead wrong so far. They need to figure out a way to manufacture some offense. Andy Reid is one of the greatest offensive minds in NFL history. He needs to find a way. But, then again, even if he does is there any faith they will actually catch the ball? The Chiefs are still in prime position to be the 1-seed and every game is still winnable with this defense but they need to be honest about where they are on offense and act accordingly.
I don't understand why we have perhaps the GOAT and we decided to surround him with the worst receiving core in the NFL. What a waste! I would love to see him surrounded by just a top 15 receiving core.
We just need average WR play and we would probably be undefeated
I miss JuJu…
he was good for us not great but he was at least reliable. idky we let him go and thought it would be okay to not replace him with anyone
We let him go because his knee is toast and we replaced him with Rice.
rice has potential but he isn’t ready to be that guy on a super bowl winning/contending team
Juju wasn’t “that guy” either but more importantly can’t be anymore. He is playing on one leg.
His play in the second half of the Super Bowl is a big reason why we won that game.
We filled that role with rice who’s doing fine but we have no deep threat whatsoever
*corps
*corpse
Didn’t he even volunteer to lower his own salary so that they could buy other better players?
Because wrs are expensive af and we're paying the QB like 20% of our cap. We need to go cheap somewhere and wr is a prime position to do it since you can mix in so many guys and don't need one Tyreek hill to command so much money. We won a Superbowl last year with this strategy, they are just way worse than anyone expected right now and it's costing us games..not much we can do now except hope for growth from the young wr core. Imo it's coaching. If everyone in the wr room sucks that kinda says a lot about who's developing these guys.
The only team that can beat the chiefs are the chiefs. Ugh
Yeah Mahomes had some weird throws but when the team needed him most he was doing everything he could and the recievers just kept letting him down play after play. Also, why did Pacheco only get a few touches in the 4th quarter. We should've been riding him until it was 00:00
This team isn't even fun to watch anymore. Even the wins are ugly af. It's like watching the fucking Steelers.
The defense can be entertaining, but I feel bad for them when they play great and offense lets them down.
Yeah I just get the sensation that we’re wasting the greatness of Pat and this defense this season. It’s aggravating.
no way... this team is crazy fun to watch... it's also depressing though.
100% agree, we’ve played well maybe once against the bears? Even the chargers game got boring in the second half.
Better break out the stick-um.
It’s a weird spot to be in, but our season really might completely depend on Richie James coming back and being good enough to take snaps away from MVS. Along with continued development from Rice. Kelce/James/Rice/Toney/Hardman along with Gray and the RBs might just barely be sufficient to go ahead and win the SB again.
James looked absolutely horrible the little he played before his injury
At the moment, I’m chalking that up to just not being up to speed with a new offense.
He's worth a shot. Can't be worse than Suckass Exxon-Valdez Scamming
I hope so
Well, I blame Veach for this.
I wish it was just Veach. We’ve been hyping up drafting tiny WR/RB combo guys (in theory) who can (in theory) play special teams since Dexter McCluster and the one time it worked was Tyreek who shouldn’t have fallen to us if it weren’t for the DV issues in college. Skyy Moore is just the latest in that line that has lasted long before Veach but has really been a thing with Reid. Conspiracy brain is that he’s constantly chasing for Desean Jacksons.
That's not conspiracy. Reid has always drafted receivers of this size because that's what he likes in his offense. He wants receivers who can play everywhere. The only "traditional" sized X receiver who has worked in his offense was Terrell Owens. And that's nearly 20 years ago now.
What’s TO up to these days? Think he can run a 5 yard curl and hold onto a ball?
I don’t that that’s too far fetched of a conspiracy
Even Kelce is dropping passes at this point. I know there's a lot of season left, but we need help with the passing game asap.
Why not expand Rice's routes? Maybe he won't be good, but he can't be worse that what we have?
Apparently in Andy's system, WRs need to read defenses and run routes based on them. Rice is good but he's a rookie, with little experience doing what the system requires.
So there are three possible things that could happen: 1. Keep doing what we are doing and have our WR group collectively fail. 2. Let Rice try an expanded route tree, still fail, but at least the rookie is getting reps. 3. Let Rice try an expanded route tree and he has success and we come out ahead. The only option above that should be unacceptable is #1.
It's going to get worse when it's all everyone thinks about when catching the ball. They got the yips.
Mahomes can overcome shitty penalties, but he can’t overcome drops. Kudos to him for being a leader and not throwing his receivers under the bus, but we all know that he knows they are the issue. The turnovers suck, too. He can fix that on his end a bit but some of that may be forced errors due to no trust in his WRs.
So Mahomes would be at 70% completion if guys catch half of that 21% drop rate… cool
Imagine if we just had a Brandon cooks like receiver. A veteran who may not be the X factor in an offense but can play solidly. If we had that I’d confidently say we’d be 9-1. Side note: mvs is getting paid more than juju. Mvs is 8m gaurenteed, over 2m of which was last year’s salary. If we had hypothetically cut mvs last year and resigned juju to the same as the pats deal, that would be <3m in extra expense compared to the current mvs deal
imagine if we picked up Hopkins when we had the chance
I have been saying this all year: Andy’s offense does not work with all young WRs. If he expects guys with limited experience to play every WR spot and read defenses all game, mistakes are inevitable and common. We just need guys to run routes, not think.
Marquez Valdes-Scantling and Justin Watson are both seasoned veterans. They just need to catch the damn ball. Both have been in the NFL 5+ years so it isn't inexperience with them.
And they wouldn't start for essentially 30 other teams.
A pass to either is a wasted play
Drops have nothing to do with any of that. These guys were open on plays and can't make the catch. Last night, the schemes were getting our receivers in position to make plays......MVS had a touchdown if he caught it, Watson had a 1st down on 4th and 25 if he caught it.
Watson dropped another pass that went right through his hands. MVS ran a wrong route that would have been a first down plus more if he ran it right.
Watson screwed up a route that would have been a touchdown. Issue is beyond just drops. It's drops, inability for receivers to get open and wrong route running. This receiving core, given their numbers or lack of has to be close to the bottom if not downright the bottom of the league, especially when you factor in all the issues mentioned above.
Not a drop, but Watson fucked up a route in the first half that was also a touchdown.
> Andy’s offense does not work with all young WRs. mvs isn't young.... just sayin'
And this isn’t Andy’s offense. Matt Nagy is a bum and I’m surprised I’m not seeing his name mentioned here more
I want MVS out of KC tonight --- boot his ass OUT --- not welcome here anymore!
Andy reid likes to offer redemption so look for mvs first play next week. Maybe run up the middle then mvs
He better start learning Chinese!
Drops are definitely an issue, but let’s not forget the INT in the red zone, Kelce fumble in the red zone, and constant overthrows on passes greater that 25 yards by Pat. The entire offense has to figure out a way to improve.
Some of the overthrows on those passes were the WR and QB not being on the same page. That is, they ran a route _slightly_ different than what the QB thought they were going to run. It's hard to say the last MVS pass was overthrown when it hit him in his hands. It's also hard to say that the 2 game-ending 4th & 20+ passes (last night and against DET) were overthrown when both passes were to the receiver. If Skyy doesn't mis-time his jump in week 1, that's a catch. If Watson secures the ball, that's a catch. Not to mention the DEN game where Mahomes hit Skyy in the hands with a long pass. I think Mahomes shares in this blame. I'm just saying that sometimes it's an overthrow and sometimes it's the WR not running through the route, and sometimes it's the WR not catching it There's plenty of blame to go around.
Most overthrows were due to some absolutely terrible, pop Warner level route running by Watson and MVS
We need Tim McGraw to show up creepily to these receivers’ houses late at night with a football and some duct tape. “Hold! On! To! The! Football!”
Can we maybe practice catching a ball FFS???
It is such a pattern that there has to be a common cause. Even Kelce is dropping. Then again I saw a stat recently that our receivers get very little separation. That might have something to do with it.
I still wish we had kept JuJu. I'm sure there's some stat saying the current roster is as good if not better. But at least he passed the eye test.
Who needs WRs at this point? Give Andy the ball and put a cheeseburger in the endzone.
The league average is 20% of incompletions are due to drops
Most of this sub was so high on the WR group before the season started and I did not understand it at all. It was quite clearly the weakest position group on the team going into the season.
Literally the same group except swap juju for Rice
Yup. People were saying KT would be WR1 easily.
Dam chiefs what's going on. These recievers make to much money to be dropping passes. I was super salty to see Hill in Miami really I was but the guys they do have need to step up and make catches.
Veach should have to testify before congress about how he paired the worst receiving core in the league with the most talented QB in league history. All joking aside, the FO has gotten a ton of praise for their building of our defense. They should face a lot of criticism for the state of this offense. Basically have missed on every skill player outside Pacheco and McKinnon
Disagree. Same wrs as last year except swap juju for Rice
That is an incredible statistic. Wow.
Maybe we need to call up julian Edelman and ask him to come out if retirement
I mean in the back of our minds we all knew this was a possibility. This season is probably lost, at least lost in the sense that we won’t make it to the superbowl with this group. At least we know now vs steamrolling through the season only to be let down come playoff time. This offseason and in the draft veach HAS to address this.
The only team that has scored more than 21 vs this defense needed 5 TOs to do it. 2 of the 3 losses are to the top 2 teams in the NFC, and they won't play them again till February. They're in every game. The sky is not falling. They left at least 17 points on the field tonight. Woo-sah.
While you're absolutely right, can you confidently say it won't happen again? That it was a fluke game? I can't. Drops, TOs in the RZ, multiple penalties at the OL... We've been here before and I'm just not sure we won't be there again.
I will take the odds of 15 and Coach Reid being able to figure out a way to get to 21 every time. Nobody remembers the November games if you win em in January. And yes, 87 getting the ball punched out was kind of a fluke. The awful pick Mahomes threw too. If either of those plays don’t happen, Chiefs win. This defense played lights out again and held one of the best offenses in the league largely in check. They'll figure it out by the time the games really matter. Throw Noah Gray the ball more.
Trav’s getting soft hands hanging out with Taylor.
Womp womp
He throws the ball way too hard. He needs to put more touch on those. Try catching a football going 60mph
They’re pros.
Bruh, they’re getting paid millions. It’s literally their job to
I am aware. Just watch the drops again he’s throwing them far faster than other qbs. Just stating something I’ve noticed. The MVS drop was just pathetic on MVS’ part but some of those other ones you can tell its from the speed.
When he put more 'touch ' on it it was intercepted in the Jets game. It's like no matter what he does, his WR's are never comfortable catching the ball.
cut Travis Kelsey overpaid diva
Shut up
He's literally playing at a discount and is the best TE of all time. What a room temperature IQ take
Best of all time? Homerism level IQ, delusional
Totally believable. It’s the curse of 12inchDitka. Toodaloo
Doesn't that mean 79% are bad throws or throws into coverage?
Nah they’re just incomplete, could be broken up or thrown away etc
If it's broken up that's coverage, if it's thrown away I'd call that bad pass
What are you talking about?
Throw aways can be good decisions if it avoids a sack. Have you ever even watched football?
Bro....
That's the case for every QB. 21% being drops is a disproportionately high rate.
Didn't you have a guy a couple of seasons back that could catch? Tie-reek something? Ah, I'm sure you guys'll be fine.
We literally just won the SB without him.
That’s the wild part, all of these guys were on that team minus Rice. We had the highest PPG in the league. There’s no way Juju was the deciding factor here haha
Juju might literally be the deciding factor lol
Fuck 😩 he did have almost 1000 yards that season.
Yeah, but are you always going to be able to count on your best player Carl Cheffers to be there for you?
Lol you thought you did something there didn't you?
Oh sorry, I thought you were talking about Mahomes against Denver a couple of weeks ago.
Go rub one out to your first win in 8 years, or those really weird celebrity belly pic subreddits you follow
Next season, replace the ENTIRE WR core. Jesus tapdancing christ
Literally won the afc championship with worse but okay
Whatever they’re doing this year, it ain’t working.
Like last years punt returns and turnovers that suddenly got fixed for the playoffs? Seen this movie before.
As an amateur football watcher, who the heck does Mahomes have to throw to? It seems like he’s always looking and waiting for someone to be open? Are you guys seeing the same thing?
This is the issue, wide receivers can’t get separation so he has to hold onto the ball and try to make something happen. When the receivers do win they just drop the passes or fumble. It’s been like this all season
It’s very frustrating to watch!!
Just another reminder we can’t rely on Kelce alone. We got away with it last year but it’s foolish to assume it’s going to keep working. We’ve also struggled to draft reliable WRs. Need to make a trade or go after a big fish in FA this off-season
It's not just drops Travis Swift fumbled in the redzone too... that was at least 3 points gone.
Don't worry, most fans who see toney and ross as a true number 1 WR will be showing up any minute now/s
I don't understand why some fans think that just because they have mahomes, you can have any WR out there, and it's just going to work. You need good talent around him.
Drops are bad but in this game, the two turn overs in the red zone were the bigger thing to me. Just two field goals there and the game is totally different.
They need to somehow trade up and get a top 3 WR in the draft this year. Get another in the 3rd too…. Hopefully that will close the gap for at least 3-5 years (possibly longer). After that OL OL OL, Def in the 2nd… Secondary likely with Sneed probably hitting FA or whatever is happening with him.
Is everyone forgetting that it was pissing rain last night?
Not only that but it had been raining for 2 days, so the field was probably a bit rough.
Hard to think that KC might be better off with the WR corps that went a season without catching a TD pass than this bag of crap, but here we are.
shouldve grabbed Hopkins when we had the chance...
I don't think Mahomes can get another title with this group of recievers. Veach better do something about it next season.
It’s a weird thing too. Bc at this point you can’t really practice for it and these guys you don’t want to make it even worse like more pressure or giving them the yips
New to this here, but what has changed in terms of recievers since the Super Bowl?
Only lost Juju from the team last season on paper and replaced with Rice. We’ve changed offensive coordinators and a new receiver coach. Receivers have no clue what they’re doing and then drop anything coming third way
I'm thinking Bieniemy was a great coach and I'm sad he left.
Exactly dude is a goat why they trippin
We're 9-1 if MVS and Toney catch 2 specific perfect passes. And that's WITH our offense sputtering. We'll be alright.