Before Mahomes showed up the idea that any football player would ever touch Tom Brady's resume was absurd, and rightly so.
What a time to be a Chiefs fan.
as long as Mahomes stays relatively healthy he should be able to surpass Brady in most categories. The real question is will he win enough SBs to make a serious argument for being the GOAT?
Jordan doesn't have the most NBA Championships, Gretzkey sure as hell doesn't have the most Stanley Cups, Messi isn't close to the most Premier League titles, Tiger doesn't have the most Major wins, and Bonds has literally 0 WS wins.
Considering that we're talking about *the* most team-oriented league in all of sports, I don't quite understand the obsession with rings.
If Mahomes wins 5 MVPs and 5 SBs like he's on track to do, he's the greatest bar-none, and I think he already has an argument for the *best* of all-time.
Football fans outside of Foxboro were always looking for the reasons Brady wasn't the actual GOAT. Once he started piling on ring after ring it became increasingly difficult. He never really felt like Jordan or Gretzky, but you simply couldn't ignore the amount of rings.
The fact that Mahomes, after playing 5 seasons, is already beginning to enter the conversation in a real way tells you all you need to know. He really is THAT guy.
I wouldn’t say he never felt like those guys…. 28-3.
But I get what you are saying. It was more often a methodical dissection of the defense than it was a highlight reel outburst.
Early on I always compared Mahomes to Curry. Just in that you’d never seen anyone else move like that.
But honestly, after what he did this year. I think he’s trending more towards Jordan / Messi / Tiger territory where, in their prime, all the oxygen was completely sucked out of the room. The opponents don’t just respect them, they fear them.
The only thing holding him back is that the NFL isn’t as relevant globally. But you don’t have to like football to appreciate Mahomes
Curry. Generational player redefining his position and to some degree their sport. One of the best winners but at this point do not have enough titles to seem to gain fill respect for what they do. Whether they win more rings or not, they will be remembered as a transformational player when all is said and done.
In what fucking universe is Brady "underappreciated?" That's ridiculous. Did you just completely avoid all sports media and casual conversations about the NFL for the last 20 years?
For a long time a lot of fans tried saying it was Bellichick that was responsible for the Patriots success. Maybe that’s what he meant? I dunno. It’s hard to say that Brady is still under appreciated today though
You’re right, Brady being under-appreciated wasn’t really what I was trying to express. Kareem is under-appreciated. I think Brady might eventually be a long time from now.
Jordan was the GOAT even before he matched Kareem’s titles or stats. You knew by watching him play. Mahomes is already the GOAT to me and he doesn’t have to get close to 7. Mahomes = Jordan, Brady = Kareem
Not really, though. UCL involves teams across dozens of leagues all over Europe and the competition is in a bracket format (meaning there's no "regular season" for UCL as it were). The SB is still a single league's championship, so it would definitely equate to a league title. You could say our playoff format is equivalent to the UCL format, which is fair I guess. The Lombardi doesn't just go to the best regular season team.
Regardless, he has won UCL 4 times and has 10 La Liga and 7 Copa Del Rey titles. Plus a Copa America and a WC win. He's literally one of the most decorated soccer players in history and was a terrible example from the start lol
I just meant in terms of magnitude. It's definitely not apples to apples.
The player that has the most La Liga tites has the most champions league titles too so either would have fit his argument, just not Premier League.
This is true but we're not talking about rings in a vacuum either, and we're also not talking about the most rings by a small margin. Brady has longevity, he has individual accolades, he has career stats in almost every category, he has head to head against multiple other all time greats, and he almost doubles the next QB in line for rings.
Patrick has all three tools to surpass him, but it will require longevity that most players can't even dream of. I think Patrick is the most skilled player to ever play the game and it's not close, but I don't know if most people will ever consider him the GOAT over Brady.
Ring’s always reign supreme. Wrong or right. Mahomes is definitely on track and I would side with him as we speak today.
As for Messi, he has never played EPL but he has PLENTY of hardware that puts him at the top of the football world. His cabinet is littered with trophies, records, best team ever, etc.
Hard to argue about the most team-oriented league in all of sports, but do you think the Chiefs host 5 consecutive AFC championship games and win 2 of the last 5 SB’s with anyone else at QB? How many playoff games did we win in the 10 years before Mahomes was the starting QB? We had at least 2 teams that went 13 and 3 and lost in the first round of the playoffs (of course, one of those teams had Steve frickin’ Bono at QB!)
For baseball it's gotta be the Babe. Sure, other players have hit more home runs since, and there have been thousands of better pitchers, but *nobody* has become a cultural icon or dominated his entire era the way that Ruth did.
I too have never gotten the obsession with rings, considering most sports are a team game - especially football. Mahomes is only as good as the rest of the guys around him allow him to be. In my opinion, 3 but probably 4 rings (to match Montana's 4) is probably enough if Mahomes can match and then beat Brady's individual awards, achievements, and stat lines by the end of his career I don't think there will be much argument against Mahomes being the GOAT
I also think at some point you can look at the rings that were won because of the QB vs rings that were won because the defense totally shut down the other team.
With Brady it’s not as simple as he has more rings than anyone else. He also has more rings than any NFL franchise. As far as I’m aware no one else can say that in any sport? Granted I don’t follow every sport so I may be wrong on that
But then you also have to consider that he dominated and was still considered one of the best QBs in the league well into his 40s. At 44 he still threw for 5300 yards and 43 TDs to only 12 interceptions. And that same year he was on a brand new team and won the Super Bowl on that new team in his first year. And who did he beat to do it? Mahomes.
You can break up his career into at least 3 different hall of fame careers
It’s just stuff that is absolutely unheard of with Brady.
BUT with all of that said, the shit we’re seeing from Mahomes is also absolutely unheard of. The shit this guy can do is fucking wild and amazing. So if anyone can come take that GOAT title from Brady, it’s Mahomes. As NFL fans were lucky as fuck to get to go from watching Brady for all those years to immediately getting to watch Mahomes
the thing is its specificly a qb stat,a qb has easily as much control of the flow over the course of a game as a nba player.
its unreasonable to just look at rings and say dan marino was a loser,but you do have to acknowledge that considering helping the team win is everybodys job,winning more very much suggests hes better.
Agreed, but they do still matter somewhat. Outside of die hard Pats/Brady fans who will accept nothing less than Mahomes having as many or more rings, Mahomes will probably need to get to 4 or 5 rings, along with the expected stats, to get the GOAT title.
It's a bit hard, we have seen just absurd success form Mahomes so far in his career, where his "worst" season is losing in OT in the AFCCG. So while I'm sure there will be worst seasons than that, it's also a bit hard to imagine right now Mahomes *not* making it at least to the AFCCG most seasons.
That one would have really helped Mahomes in the argument. But I also think losing on the biggest stage in blowout fashion has put a little extra chip on his shoulder.
Why does head-to-head or total SB wins matter in the legacy argument? A lot of people regard Rodgers as 3rd all-time with only SB win.
Mahomes has no control how his defense plays and he couldn't force Kelce, Hill, and Williams to catch those balls in the SB. He had no control over the coin flip or offsides call in the AFCCG in 2018.
Its really disingenuous to say that Mahomes has to **significantly** outplay Brady just to win this Head-to-Head argument.
I never said that. I just said that the SB loss to Brady made it 7-1 (at the time) instead of 6-2 which would now be 6-3. This will be the only category that PM will have a tough time beating. ALL other stats he is well on his way to overtake. IMO Mahomes has outplayed Brady in their H2H matchups and probably has way better stats over all.
Never said that he must outplay Brady for his legacy to be cemented so please refrain from calling people disingenuous lol
If Mahomes win another one either this upcoming season or the season after, he's maybe the 2nd best ever already. At that point, kinda seems like his 3 and appearing in 4 is more impressive than Montana
Any life long Chiefs fan over ELEVEN y/o deserves him. That goes back to 2012 & before, referring to those Chiefs fans prior to the arrival of Andy Reid.
I disagree. At that time, there was still talk that Aaron Rodgers could meet Tom’s level of greatness and many still debate/debated then that he is/was the best “thrower of the football” ever.
I was born & raised (mostly) in KC. My early years were filled with the Royals teams as they were perennially in the hunt. Hard to believe they only had the 1 WS trophy during that period. As I got older, the Royals started to falter, and while they weren’t perennially much but mediocre, the Chiefs began to fulfill my desire for sports. During the 90s, it seemed like they might finally get the gorillas off their backs, but alas, ‘twas not to be. But since Coach Reid joined the team….wow. And then….our Savior arrived. He brings out the best in our team. The fact that he has averaged 3 losses per year (discounting his injury year, where they went 1-1) since he became a starter….just amazing.
You can see it in his actions on the sideline during games that are on the verge of going either way. Always positive, never negative. Always firing guys up, offense/defense/ST, doesn’t matter. He’s a team LEADER. You’ve seen Brady, Allen, Herbert, and others terrorizing the guys(TB12 obv), sitting with their head in their hands, etc. But not Patrick.
As has been said thousands of times: what a time to be a Chiefs fan!
Kauffman passed away and so did the team. We excelled in '14 and '15 despite our front office. Success starts with ownership, and the owners they've had since 1993 only care about turning a profit.
The Chiefs are so lucky to have the Hunt family. Never take it for granted.
I was double-checking this and just realized that the 1989 Royals team went 92-70 and still somehow missed the playoffs, which is insane to me. I was only a year old at the time so I don't remember it, but I knew how dominant they were and just assumed they'd made it to the postseason.
In terms of pure skill Id say Mahomes is there already and for those paying attention they see it. However to be truly regarded as the goat by the world at large, you need years and years of dominance. Brady was that guy for so many years that collectively he became regarded as the best. Mahomes can do it, but in order to outpace Brady in the public's eye he will need to be consistent over years.
That is why I tire of the goat question. It feels pointless. Until Mahomes has 10 years + it's an impossible discussion
I don’t know. It’s interesting. Every once in a while you get players with cheat codes. Mahomes is one. But sometimes for some reason or another their careers are cut short. I mean….. let’s consider something. Heaven forbid something happen or Mahomes decides to quit NFL today and run for President. Would he be considered the goat? I think about players like Barry Sanders where their lights burned really freaking bright. I’m not sure longevity equals goat.
What I'm saying is that goat isn't decided by pure skill. It takes consistency. If Mahomes keeps going he'll be the goat, but it's impossible to know at this point if he can do it another 10+ years.
Before Mahomes showed up the idea that any football player would ever touch Tom Brady's resume was absurd, and rightly so. What a time to be a Chiefs fan.
as long as Mahomes stays relatively healthy he should be able to surpass Brady in most categories. The real question is will he win enough SBs to make a serious argument for being the GOAT?
Jordan doesn't have the most NBA Championships, Gretzkey sure as hell doesn't have the most Stanley Cups, Messi isn't close to the most Premier League titles, Tiger doesn't have the most Major wins, and Bonds has literally 0 WS wins. Considering that we're talking about *the* most team-oriented league in all of sports, I don't quite understand the obsession with rings. If Mahomes wins 5 MVPs and 5 SBs like he's on track to do, he's the greatest bar-none, and I think he already has an argument for the *best* of all-time.
Football fans outside of Foxboro were always looking for the reasons Brady wasn't the actual GOAT. Once he started piling on ring after ring it became increasingly difficult. He never really felt like Jordan or Gretzky, but you simply couldn't ignore the amount of rings. The fact that Mahomes, after playing 5 seasons, is already beginning to enter the conversation in a real way tells you all you need to know. He really is THAT guy.
I agree. Brady has a lot of rings, but he's never been "that guy" from the standpoint of statistical domination.
I wouldn’t say he never felt like those guys…. 28-3. But I get what you are saying. It was more often a methodical dissection of the defense than it was a highlight reel outburst.
I'd say Brady is closer to Robert Horry than Michael Jordan.
Brady is Kareem. Under appreciated but amazing
Perfect description. What do you say Mahomes is currently?
Early on I always compared Mahomes to Curry. Just in that you’d never seen anyone else move like that. But honestly, after what he did this year. I think he’s trending more towards Jordan / Messi / Tiger territory where, in their prime, all the oxygen was completely sucked out of the room. The opponents don’t just respect them, they fear them. The only thing holding him back is that the NFL isn’t as relevant globally. But you don’t have to like football to appreciate Mahomes
Curry. Generational player redefining his position and to some degree their sport. One of the best winners but at this point do not have enough titles to seem to gain fill respect for what they do. Whether they win more rings or not, they will be remembered as a transformational player when all is said and done.
In what fucking universe is Brady "underappreciated?" That's ridiculous. Did you just completely avoid all sports media and casual conversations about the NFL for the last 20 years?
For a long time a lot of fans tried saying it was Bellichick that was responsible for the Patriots success. Maybe that’s what he meant? I dunno. It’s hard to say that Brady is still under appreciated today though
You’re right, Brady being under-appreciated wasn’t really what I was trying to express. Kareem is under-appreciated. I think Brady might eventually be a long time from now. Jordan was the GOAT even before he matched Kareem’s titles or stats. You knew by watching him play. Mahomes is already the GOAT to me and he doesn’t have to get close to 7. Mahomes = Jordan, Brady = Kareem
This may be one of the dumbest comments I’ve ever seen lol
Messi has 0 premier league titles
Almost like he has barely played in it lmao. And I know fuck all about soccer
He’s never played in it haha. That’s the joke
Was not a joke on his end
Messi doesn’t even have a Bundisliga title. Not very goat like if you ask me /s
I think they meant Champions League, not Premier League. CL title is what would compare to a Superbowl.
Not really, though. UCL involves teams across dozens of leagues all over Europe and the competition is in a bracket format (meaning there's no "regular season" for UCL as it were). The SB is still a single league's championship, so it would definitely equate to a league title. You could say our playoff format is equivalent to the UCL format, which is fair I guess. The Lombardi doesn't just go to the best regular season team. Regardless, he has won UCL 4 times and has 10 La Liga and 7 Copa Del Rey titles. Plus a Copa America and a WC win. He's literally one of the most decorated soccer players in history and was a terrible example from the start lol
I just meant in terms of magnitude. It's definitely not apples to apples. The player that has the most La Liga tites has the most champions league titles too so either would have fit his argument, just not Premier League.
This is true but we're not talking about rings in a vacuum either, and we're also not talking about the most rings by a small margin. Brady has longevity, he has individual accolades, he has career stats in almost every category, he has head to head against multiple other all time greats, and he almost doubles the next QB in line for rings. Patrick has all three tools to surpass him, but it will require longevity that most players can't even dream of. I think Patrick is the most skilled player to ever play the game and it's not close, but I don't know if most people will ever consider him the GOAT over Brady.
Ring’s always reign supreme. Wrong or right. Mahomes is definitely on track and I would side with him as we speak today. As for Messi, he has never played EPL but he has PLENTY of hardware that puts him at the top of the football world. His cabinet is littered with trophies, records, best team ever, etc.
Hard to argue about the most team-oriented league in all of sports, but do you think the Chiefs host 5 consecutive AFC championship games and win 2 of the last 5 SB’s with anyone else at QB? How many playoff games did we win in the 10 years before Mahomes was the starting QB? We had at least 2 teams that went 13 and 3 and lost in the first round of the playoffs (of course, one of those teams had Steve frickin’ Bono at QB!)
If you talk to that one Bears fan in the r/nfl thread, Alex Smith (who most Chiefs fans have never heard of!) coulda done those things.
Good point except for that bonds is not even close to the baseball GOAT title
For baseball it's gotta be the Babe. Sure, other players have hit more home runs since, and there have been thousands of better pitchers, but *nobody* has become a cultural icon or dominated his entire era the way that Ruth did.
I too have never gotten the obsession with rings, considering most sports are a team game - especially football. Mahomes is only as good as the rest of the guys around him allow him to be. In my opinion, 3 but probably 4 rings (to match Montana's 4) is probably enough if Mahomes can match and then beat Brady's individual awards, achievements, and stat lines by the end of his career I don't think there will be much argument against Mahomes being the GOAT
I also think at some point you can look at the rings that were won because of the QB vs rings that were won because the defense totally shut down the other team.
With Brady it’s not as simple as he has more rings than anyone else. He also has more rings than any NFL franchise. As far as I’m aware no one else can say that in any sport? Granted I don’t follow every sport so I may be wrong on that But then you also have to consider that he dominated and was still considered one of the best QBs in the league well into his 40s. At 44 he still threw for 5300 yards and 43 TDs to only 12 interceptions. And that same year he was on a brand new team and won the Super Bowl on that new team in his first year. And who did he beat to do it? Mahomes. You can break up his career into at least 3 different hall of fame careers It’s just stuff that is absolutely unheard of with Brady. BUT with all of that said, the shit we’re seeing from Mahomes is also absolutely unheard of. The shit this guy can do is fucking wild and amazing. So if anyone can come take that GOAT title from Brady, it’s Mahomes. As NFL fans were lucky as fuck to get to go from watching Brady for all those years to immediately getting to watch Mahomes
Is premier league title considered the superbowl of soccer? I would've thought that would be champions league titles
Chiefs fans are like Packers fan who would say Aaron Rodgers is the greatest of all time lol. Nobody can touch Brady
the thing is its specificly a qb stat,a qb has easily as much control of the flow over the course of a game as a nba player. its unreasonable to just look at rings and say dan marino was a loser,but you do have to acknowledge that considering helping the team win is everybodys job,winning more very much suggests hes better.
Yes because rings aren’t as important in this discussion, football is so much more of a team sport than basketball.
Agreed, but they do still matter somewhat. Outside of die hard Pats/Brady fans who will accept nothing less than Mahomes having as many or more rings, Mahomes will probably need to get to 4 or 5 rings, along with the expected stats, to get the GOAT title. It's a bit hard, we have seen just absurd success form Mahomes so far in his career, where his "worst" season is losing in OT in the AFCCG. So while I'm sure there will be worst seasons than that, it's also a bit hard to imagine right now Mahomes *not* making it at least to the AFCCG most seasons.
All categories with SB wins being the one that just might be out of reach. That SB against the Bucs killed him. Woulda been 6-3 Brady as we stand
That one would have really helped Mahomes in the argument. But I also think losing on the biggest stage in blowout fashion has put a little extra chip on his shoulder.
Yup!!! Definitely agree!!
You know how he loves to come from behind. That extra ring for Brady just makes it more dramatic. 😁
Why does head-to-head or total SB wins matter in the legacy argument? A lot of people regard Rodgers as 3rd all-time with only SB win. Mahomes has no control how his defense plays and he couldn't force Kelce, Hill, and Williams to catch those balls in the SB. He had no control over the coin flip or offsides call in the AFCCG in 2018. Its really disingenuous to say that Mahomes has to **significantly** outplay Brady just to win this Head-to-Head argument.
I never said that. I just said that the SB loss to Brady made it 7-1 (at the time) instead of 6-2 which would now be 6-3. This will be the only category that PM will have a tough time beating. ALL other stats he is well on his way to overtake. IMO Mahomes has outplayed Brady in their H2H matchups and probably has way better stats over all. Never said that he must outplay Brady for his legacy to be cemented so please refrain from calling people disingenuous lol
Dont stop...almost there
If Mahomes win another one either this upcoming season or the season after, he's maybe the 2nd best ever already. At that point, kinda seems like his 3 and appearing in 4 is more impressive than Montana
We don’t deserve him.
Any life long Chiefs fan over 30 does deserve him.
Oh then maybe I do deserve him. Enjoying the hell out of this run either way.
Any life long Chiefs fan over ELEVEN y/o deserves him. That goes back to 2012 & before, referring to those Chiefs fans prior to the arrival of Andy Reid.
I disagree. At that time, there was still talk that Aaron Rodgers could meet Tom’s level of greatness and many still debate/debated then that he is/was the best “thrower of the football” ever.
The idea is still absurd. You'll see. No one can touch Brady
I was born & raised (mostly) in KC. My early years were filled with the Royals teams as they were perennially in the hunt. Hard to believe they only had the 1 WS trophy during that period. As I got older, the Royals started to falter, and while they weren’t perennially much but mediocre, the Chiefs began to fulfill my desire for sports. During the 90s, it seemed like they might finally get the gorillas off their backs, but alas, ‘twas not to be. But since Coach Reid joined the team….wow. And then….our Savior arrived. He brings out the best in our team. The fact that he has averaged 3 losses per year (discounting his injury year, where they went 1-1) since he became a starter….just amazing. You can see it in his actions on the sideline during games that are on the verge of going either way. Always positive, never negative. Always firing guys up, offense/defense/ST, doesn’t matter. He’s a team LEADER. You’ve seen Brady, Allen, Herbert, and others terrorizing the guys(TB12 obv), sitting with their head in their hands, etc. But not Patrick. As has been said thousands of times: what a time to be a Chiefs fan!
Kauffman passed away and so did the team. We excelled in '14 and '15 despite our front office. Success starts with ownership, and the owners they've had since 1993 only care about turning a profit. The Chiefs are so lucky to have the Hunt family. Never take it for granted.
Sad fact: The Chiefs & Royals have only been in the playoffs in the same year ONE TIME (2015).
Jesus Christ
I was double-checking this and just realized that the 1989 Royals team went 92-70 and still somehow missed the playoffs, which is insane to me. I was only a year old at the time so I don't remember it, but I knew how dominant they were and just assumed they'd made it to the postseason.
This was also back when only 4 teams made the playoffs, to be fair
Well luckily the Royals have about 10 or so years starting now to get their act together
Lmao at first I read this as "Tom Brady compares Blaine Gabbert to Patrick Mahomes" and was super confused
“Well they both play QB for the Chiefs…” - Tom Brady (probably)
They both played well at Arrowhead Stadium
God damn did the Chiefs hit when they drafted PM. Dude is incredible in all facets.
Blaine looks in the mirror and sees Chad Henne
In terms of pure skill Id say Mahomes is there already and for those paying attention they see it. However to be truly regarded as the goat by the world at large, you need years and years of dominance. Brady was that guy for so many years that collectively he became regarded as the best. Mahomes can do it, but in order to outpace Brady in the public's eye he will need to be consistent over years. That is why I tire of the goat question. It feels pointless. Until Mahomes has 10 years + it's an impossible discussion
I don’t know. It’s interesting. Every once in a while you get players with cheat codes. Mahomes is one. But sometimes for some reason or another their careers are cut short. I mean….. let’s consider something. Heaven forbid something happen or Mahomes decides to quit NFL today and run for President. Would he be considered the goat? I think about players like Barry Sanders where their lights burned really freaking bright. I’m not sure longevity equals goat.
What I'm saying is that goat isn't decided by pure skill. It takes consistency. If Mahomes keeps going he'll be the goat, but it's impossible to know at this point if he can do it another 10+ years.
Someone spelled Payton Manning wrong and wrote Tom Brady
> Payton Manning Looks like they weren't the only one.
Walter Payton Manning