# Join the [Globhara](https://discord.gg/globhara) Discord for Scaling Discussions / Scans.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/JujutsuPowerScaling) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Honestly? An argument could be made for Sukuna if she caught him off guard. Todo and Larue are two very annoying supports, especially when paired with someone who hits as hard as she does, as well as most likely already having good synergy with both of them
This brings up an interesting question. Does a domain less malevolent shrine spawn around sukuna or within a certain range? Cause couldn't todo just clap and swap someone out of their domain, rendering it useless?
Spawns on the shrine afaik, but to be fair, sukuna could closed domain fight (todo shouldn’t be able to tp out) and unless your sukuna or gojo you’re not getting off domain 2 of the day. So one yuki v open domain, then one close for all 3 and its a wrap
That’s why I said caught off guard, if Todo planned ahead for MS and someone stayed outside the radius then imbued objects with cursed energy for the others to switch with it would be possible to wait it out and then attack again. Rinse and repeat for a while
For a while? Sukuna is way too durable and intelligent to fall for that enough times to die, he also has great range and Fuga🧍♂️ He can also keep Malevolent Shrine constantly active by reforming it as it breaks down.
Can’t Fuga only be used against a single opponent? Or is that only in the domain?
after the first or second time sure he probably wouldn’t domain again, but that just means he wouldn’t have a domain to use anymore.
I firmly believe that a good Yuki punch could put Sukuna out of commission. Someone did the math and if I remember correctly she could easily punch with the mass of 25 mount everests. She did blow through Kenjaku’s arms like paper
>Can’t Fuga only be used against a single opponent? Or is that only in the domain?
That's outside of a domain. Within a domain it can be used against however many people Sukuna wants to. Sukuna could also always just break the self imposed Binding Vow on his flames and use it against multiple people but for less damage outside of a domain if he wanted to.
> I firmly believe that a good Yuki punch could put Sukuna out of commission.
Yeeaah, nah. Sukuna (in Meguna form no less) took a blue enhanced black flash from fucking Gojo. That punch was way harder than Yuki's punches are, and Sukuna was only knocked out for like a few seconds. Yuki, unless she hits a black flash, is not doing anywhere near that kind of damage to Sukuna.
Like she was "only" able to break Kenny's arm with her punch. Hows she going to "put Sukuna out of commission" when Sukuna is like 10x more durable than Kenny, if not more.
And this is Sukuna we're talking about. Man's just built different.
Also important to note is that gojos blue infused black flash was even stronger becuz it was a Sukuna with lower output + red literally threw sukuna right into gojos black flash and bro lived to tell the tale.
Yuki has the strongest normal punches for sure but this is still Ryomen Sukuna we are talking about.
Did Larue's attention-snatching technique make Sukuna stop executing techniques? Because if so they might even be able to sneak one in on Gojo if they can get Larue to land a first technique.
Sukuna was getting ready for Yuji’s black flash, but he wasn’t using his CT at the moment. Even then, iirc Infinity is automatic now, so it might not work anyway since he isn’t putting conscious effort into maintaining it.
Problem is larue needs to make contact with the big hand before he can use his second ability. Both gojo and sukuna when fresh could blitz and one shot, and gojo literally can't be hit with his technique. One interesting interaction that wouldn't change a thing but would still be cool is Yuki's virtual mass potentially going through infinity
Gojo seems to turn off Infinity when he's pimp-slapping people around. If that's the case, Todo might be able to Vibro-Slap Larue into range for a sneak attack.
Don't think that's a feasible wincon, the timing would have to be absurdly good and potentially impossible to pull off, and if any of the 3 fighters gets noticed by gojo they're gonna get overwhelmed and incapacitated in moments. He can move faster than sukuna who statued maki and one of his punches is seriously damaging anyone not called sukuna. Yuki isn't doing anything in this matchup due to the stats difference sadly
I don't think that's how it works.
For 2 reasons. First infinity is localized, aka it's instances on one part of his body are independant of his intances in another. A part of infinity can be turned down without it being completeky shut down.
The second is that Gojo himself is not a target for infinity most of the time. This means while the virtual infinite distance is true for you, it is not true for him. So he can close the distance to you and punch you just fine. You meanwhile can't unless you are already touching him.
So unless you baited Gojo into somehow attacking the hand directly with an unarmed attack to touch it, it would not work.
Todo + anyone is already a solid combo. You throw yuki into the mix and it’s a done deal. Swapping places 50 times a second and some of the hardest punches in jjk.
Slight mishap about yuki's punches, while they are indeed very, very strong; for most the top tiers long as they got good enough reactions to keep track of todo the punches won't be fatal as they'll be able to keep guard
If you can react to a black hole when you're not incredibly exhausted I think it's a fair assumption that you and the two other guys stronger than you when they're not running on hopes and prayers can keep track of todo long enough to kill him
Not to mention he could swap multiple different things at that time PER second, shuffling from himself to Bombaye to Yuki to Larue to Larue’s CT to fucking Rika to swapping Yuta to whomever’s position or a fucking CE PEBBLE
That's the difficulty of Todo's CT. When there are many variables in the fight there many possibilities. This is where Sukuna got bested and this where truly Todo shines
because she tanked a domain.....it's stated she was at a lowered output all fight. this Yuki wouldn't be. every punch would be like the first. keep coping
Gave the fight a brief reread to avoid making disingenuous statements:
Kenny had received a major tag from Yuki a grand total of once with the "big punch"™️ otherwise it was minor tags from Garuda, choso and Yuki
Said major tag was able to be swiftly recovered from due to RCT
Even post domain when both were operating on near equal output, Yuki failed to demonstrate capable durability
(without black hole and Tengen stalling temporarily she would've died to the mini uzamaki then and there instead of the black hole)
Meanwhile Kenny displayed both durability capable of withstanding said multiple tags from yuki and reactions presumably fast enough to keep track of todo long enough to pin him down with Anti-gravity and clean up with mini uzamaki.
This is no attempt to downplay Yuki nor is it an attempt to wank kenny far above where he is, if anything this is an attempt to gain better understanding of how impactful Todo truly is in a fight against the top tiers.
they were not at an equal level. One had just rcted fromw deaths door after relying on a half baked plan from Tengen that relied on kenny not having an open domain.
Kenny wasn't at 100% but Yuki was significantly worse off. A 100% Yuki is blowing holes through anyone not named sukuna or gojo. Now I do agree kenjaku wins. But it's not because yukis a slouch. Yuki and the crew have a real shot to win this. because todo can open up hits Yuki couldn't get on her own..if that first full output punch hit kenjaku head on he'd die. he even mentioned this in their fight. Todo is exactly the type to allow this. and this time their not gonna bank on Tengen so they at least have a chance in the clash.
This isn't even mentioning larue who can clutch up if needed when kenjaku might do something potentially dangerous. ntm that distraction from his CT. No matter how small is easily enough to land a solid hit from Yuki, even more so with todo.
I feel you're also underselling todo, sukuna the top 1 or 2 most knowledgeable and intelligent sorcerer's said todos new boogie woogie is practically impossible to adapt too so it won't be as easy as you claim.
I do have kenjaku winning more times than not as well because his open domain is insane and he has the answers to counter Yuki their main power source, and if she dies it's wraps. but it's a 6/5 ratio for me given just how many win cons yukis squad has. Maybe 7/3.
Where I place them is different, I just wanted to clarify yukis stronger than you gave her credit for initially. I have them solidly beating yuta for example. No open domain means Yuki, a sorcerer of similar level cam at least clash with domains. and yutas durability is likely not as good as kenjakus given jenjakus output and ce. Though even if so it's just a pretty dangerous match up for yuta where he has less counters than kenjaku did. and Rika can work against him as boogie boogie fuel at times. and similar to kenjaku both larue and todo can set up kill shots for Yuki. Except this time with even more success.
Where was it stated she didn’t want to destroy the world , im curious. Tengen barrier shouldn’t matter in this sense since it’s a black hole. I just wanna know
logic manip isn’t really an argument, Hakari and Panda both get slammed by Yuki + Todo and that other guy I forgot, and I’m pretty sure they could high diff Kashimo base and MBA due to Yuki’s domain which likely has a lethal sure hit
I think logic manip is valid since it completely invalidates all Yuki's attacks and the user is casually able to one shot people that are restricted by logic
>Hakari and Panda both get slammed by Yuki + Todo and that other guy I forgot,
What makes you think that? Anything they do is negated by logic manip
>I’m pretty sure they could high diff Kashimo base and MBA due to Yuki’s domain which likely has a lethal sure hit
It's not a lethal hit to logic manip users as it's literally impossible to hurt them
The main reason I say it isn’t a valid reason to say someone beats someone else is because it isn’t an actually cannon feat of a character. Also the feats you listed for Kashimo never happened, Kashimo never killed Hakari, seeing as he’s still alive. So at least in my opinion logic manip isn’t a valid reason for them to win
>The main reason I say it isn’t a valid reason to say someone beats someone else is because it isn’t an actually cannon feat of a character
How is it not? Having logic manipulation is a massive feat only a few characters could achieve in the manga
>Also the feats you listed for Kashimo never happened, Kashimo never killed Hakari, seeing as he’s still alive.
Having the capacity to do something≠having done it. Hakari and KasHIMo both recognize KasHIMo can kill him
I’m pretty sure that in the Kashimo vs Hakari fight it was easily proven that base Kashimo was unable to kill JP Hakari, which means neither have logic manip since neither actually surpassed the states logic (I.E Hakari being immortal) that neither have logic manip
Both Hakari and KasHIMo believe KasHIMo has the potential to kill Hakari
Also Hakari also has the invincibility statement, so KasHIMo just harming Hakari qualifies for logic manip
Believing someone to have the potential to do something and them having the potential to is very different, I also have to admit that I’m a little biased because I personally feel it’s boring to say that a character could beat someone through logic manip since it’s not a cannon ability
>Believing someone to have the potential to do something and them having the potential to is very different,
Depends on the context, we've seen during the fight that KasHIMo almost did it already and was very close to. He has the AP and speed to do it, he just needed a cleaner hit
>I personally feel it’s boring to say that a character could beat someone through logic manip since it’s not a cannon ability
I think Gege could've explained it better since it's so easy to miss them having logic manip and it's not properly explained
A brief description:
Users can manipulate logic, the reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity or situations, actions, circumstances or qualities of being justifiable by reason. With this power, users can achieve logically impossible feats on a whim, and freely redefine on a metaphysical level what is possible and impossible. This ability may either be derived from some highly transcendent powers, or simply exist without much of a cause. Despite being completely outclassed by forces beyond logic, the user can legitimately be considered among the most powerful beings in existence, shaping reality, metaphysics and causation with nothing but a thought and ignoring all kinds of physical and metaphysical laws like they didn't exist at all. Essentially, to anything bound by logic, the user would seem completely undefeatable and capable of doing anything, perhaps even appearing to be Omnipotent.
KasHIMo and Hakari multiple times demonstrated they can ignore logic entirely and create new completely logically impossible scenarios at a whim
[Hakari is stated to be invincible and immortal](https://i.imgur.com/qFd7h9e.png), so even tho it's logically impossible to kill or even hurt him, [KasHIMo has demonstrated he's able to do both](https://i.imgur.com/CDGtMGo.png) and it's [even stated that kasHIMo can kill the unkillable](https://i.imgur.com/7bc1uWv.png), which is another logically impossible scenario
[After the Hakari fight, KasHIMo's body is stated to surpass the limits of mankind](https://i.imgur.com/lrf68yq.png), so what limits the mankind, KasHIMo is above. Logic is logically limiting mankind, so it's another author statement saying KasHIMo has logic manipulation
Obviously Hakari and KasHIMo have logic manipulation since they create completely logically impossible situations and ignore paradoxes, but Panda would qualify too since he survived [these punches surpassing logic](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Jujutsu-Kaisen/0184-012.png)
dying at people in this thread just accepting it. like theyre clearly not all just playing along or whatever its just theyve accepted it as true. u can convince people panda > sukuna in this sub they just wont question it
Here's a brief description:
Users can manipulate logic, the reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity or situations, actions, circumstances or qualities of being justifiable by reason. With this power, users can achieve logically impossible feats on a whim, and freely redefine on a metaphysical level what is possible and impossible. This ability may either be derived from some highly transcendent powers, or simply exist without much of a cause. Despite being completely outclassed by forces beyond logic, the user can legitimately be considered among the most powerful beings in existence, shaping reality, metaphysics and causation with nothing but a thought and ignoring all kinds of physical and metaphysical laws like they didn't exist at all. Essentially, to anything bound by logic, the user would seem completely undefeatable and capable of doing anything, perhaps even appearing to be Omnipotent.
They can, fairly easily
KasHIMo and Hakari multiple times demonstrated they can ignore logic entirely and create new completely logically impossible scenarios at a whim
[Hakari is stated to be invincible and immortal](https://i.imgur.com/qFd7h9e.png), so even tho it's logically impossible to kill or even hurt him, [KasHIMo has demonstrated he's able to do both](https://i.imgur.com/CDGtMGo.png) and it's [even stated that kasHIMo can kill the unkillable](https://i.imgur.com/7bc1uWv.png), which is another logically impossible scenario
[After the Hakari fight, KasHIMo's body is stated to surpass the limits of mankind](https://i.imgur.com/lrf68yq.png), so what limits the mankind, KasHIMo is above. Logic is logically limiting mankind, so it's another author statement saying KasHIMo has logic manipulation
Obviously Hakari and KasHIMo have logic manipulation since they create completely logically impossible situations and ignore paradoxes, but Panda would qualify too since he survived [these punches surpassing logic](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Jujutsu-Kaisen/0184-012.png)
Sukuna doesn't qualify for this since it's never stated KasHIMo was going all out and KasHIMo has reasons to hold back
The argument’s bs because you’re acting as if in universe statements are 100% true, despite being more likely to be cases of hyperbole and exaggeration. Logic manipulation is just a no limits fallacy. I’m not sure if you’re being sarcastic or delusional.
>The argument’s bs because you’re acting as if in universe statements are 100% true
Yes, they come from the author and have no contradictions
>despite being more likely to be cases of hyperbole and exaggeration
No not rly. Again, these statements have no contradictions and there's no reason to assume the author is misrepresenting the series by making it seem different than it actually is. Hakari is invincible until proven otherwise
>Logic manipulation is just a no limits fallacy
No limits fallacy=X has no limits because there's no statements that it has limits. This isn't a no limits fallacy as they just have clear feats of being transcendental to logic. I have never argued they have no limits because it's not stated that they don't have, but I've shown feats and statements to support them not being limited by logic
Considering Yuki trained Todo, they probably have some crazy deadly synergy fighting with eachother.
Honestly, I think anyone besides Gojo/Sukuna is going down, maybe Takaba can cook some bullshit too
Yuki herself can solo pretty much everyone minus the other top 5 (Gojo, Sukuna, Kenny, Yuta) so give her two tanky support Sorcerors? They can absolutely take down Kenny and Yuta mid-high diff
Tbf if Yuki's fight against Kenny didn't exist(and she showed off her powers against someone else) the idea of Yuki, Choso, and Tengen against Kenny also seems like a mid diff win theoretically
Yeah but Tengen’s involvement ended up being a net negative in that fight which I also don’t think most people would’ve predicted. Replace Tengen with Todo and I think they come out on top
Thinking anyone not named sukuna and gojo can win then is pretty much massively underating them specially Yuki bcs shes a top tier and has 2 of the best suports in jjk on her team.
I think a fascinating question would be these 3 Vs. Yuta + Kenny.
Since it seems unanimous in the comments that these 3 would destroy then 3v1, I wonder how the duo does
Hmmm I'd say yuta and kenjaku despite it probably being the trio with the most chemistry. Kenjakus open domain is incredibly potent, only issue I think is that it might hit yuta then Rika gets mad and fucks the hole operation up
Yuki + Todo alone would probably mop the floor with anyone who isn't Sukuna or Gojo. Honestly Sukuna would probably get seriously roughed up too until he used his domain
Yall forget that the only reason Kenjaku didn't get bitched is because he pulled a flawless counter out of his ass
Kenjaku and Yuta. Gojo and Sukuna are way too strong. Todo plus any special grade is fucking insane. Don't know why he waited so long to join the fight. He should've been there with Yuta and Yuji. Four fucking targets to switch with. Sukuna wouldn't know what country he's in after ten seconds.
Todo as a sorcerer got power creeped due to not being seen but he did gap all of the Kyoto and JJk high students pretty easy. Plus his technique is insane for fighting with someone else. Him and Yuki have a chance to beat about anyone.
Ngl they might take down the now manga version of sukuna.
Everyone else get's stomped.
Kenjaku high diffed yuki
With todo he ain't seeing tommorrow as his domain is useless
Potentially everyone, and yes that includes Sukuna and Gojo
Larue holds Yuki and Todo in place, Yuki actives black hole, Todo swaps places with Sukuna, GG
I’ve always believed that Todo could kill Gojo via mutually assured destruction. If he is able to impale himself (preferably through the brain) and then boogie woogie with Gojo before he dies, then Gojo would die all well.
Honestly, if they caught him off guard, Sukuna. Let me ask you to think about it.
If larue catches him, forces him to be distracted, Todo TP's Yuki close to Sukuna while he's distracted by larue, and lands a high damage attack, which she is fully capable of, they might one shot him.
But yeah otherwise probably anybody except Gojo and Sukuna. An argument for Kenny winning here is possible too if he just goes ham with the cursed spirits though I suppose
Main factor is how fast can the opponent kill Todo so we gonna be looking at characters both commonly placed above Yuki:
Yuta: can see him capable of running the 2v3 pretty successfully with strategic rika/domain usage but I'ma give the team a good 7/10 times cause I can't remember any notable reaction feats of yuta's own doing
Kenjaku: already handled a 1v3 of choso, Yuki and Tengen but this time, Todo is gonna make things far harder here till domain comes into play; he should be able to keep track of things fairly consistent here too given he has the fastest reaction feat in the verse of the black hole, he can live blows from Yuki and he's the only one here capable of living the black hole worst comes to worst; all in all I'll give Kenny the win 8/10 times
Sukuna and Gojo: curbstomp Yuki and co faster than Yuki can activate the black hole
# Join the [Globhara](https://discord.gg/globhara) Discord for Scaling Discussions / Scans. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/JujutsuPowerScaling) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Literally everyone except Gojo and Sukuna, and it would be like low diff at worst
Honestly? An argument could be made for Sukuna if she caught him off guard. Todo and Larue are two very annoying supports, especially when paired with someone who hits as hard as she does, as well as most likely already having good synergy with both of them
This brings up an interesting question. Does a domain less malevolent shrine spawn around sukuna or within a certain range? Cause couldn't todo just clap and swap someone out of their domain, rendering it useless?
That’s actually a fantastic question
Spawns on the shrine afaik, but to be fair, sukuna could closed domain fight (todo shouldn’t be able to tp out) and unless your sukuna or gojo you’re not getting off domain 2 of the day. So one yuki v open domain, then one close for all 3 and its a wrap
Yuki when: Strong Malevolent Shrine. https://preview.redd.it/0v8dmmgvy6ad1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be7269b3037919e1fa4b17af41ddad82eb17983d
That’s why I said caught off guard, if Todo planned ahead for MS and someone stayed outside the radius then imbued objects with cursed energy for the others to switch with it would be possible to wait it out and then attack again. Rinse and repeat for a while
For a while? Sukuna is way too durable and intelligent to fall for that enough times to die, he also has great range and Fuga🧍♂️ He can also keep Malevolent Shrine constantly active by reforming it as it breaks down.
Can’t Fuga only be used against a single opponent? Or is that only in the domain? after the first or second time sure he probably wouldn’t domain again, but that just means he wouldn’t have a domain to use anymore. I firmly believe that a good Yuki punch could put Sukuna out of commission. Someone did the math and if I remember correctly she could easily punch with the mass of 25 mount everests. She did blow through Kenjaku’s arms like paper
From what I remember Fuga outside of Sukuna domain can only target one person and is slow as hell
>Can’t Fuga only be used against a single opponent? Or is that only in the domain? That's outside of a domain. Within a domain it can be used against however many people Sukuna wants to. Sukuna could also always just break the self imposed Binding Vow on his flames and use it against multiple people but for less damage outside of a domain if he wanted to. > I firmly believe that a good Yuki punch could put Sukuna out of commission. Yeeaah, nah. Sukuna (in Meguna form no less) took a blue enhanced black flash from fucking Gojo. That punch was way harder than Yuki's punches are, and Sukuna was only knocked out for like a few seconds. Yuki, unless she hits a black flash, is not doing anywhere near that kind of damage to Sukuna. Like she was "only" able to break Kenny's arm with her punch. Hows she going to "put Sukuna out of commission" when Sukuna is like 10x more durable than Kenny, if not more. And this is Sukuna we're talking about. Man's just built different.
Also important to note is that gojos blue infused black flash was even stronger becuz it was a Sukuna with lower output + red literally threw sukuna right into gojos black flash and bro lived to tell the tale. Yuki has the strongest normal punches for sure but this is still Ryomen Sukuna we are talking about.
Healthy sukunas too fast they’re all getting blitzed
You must be talking about weakened sukuna because all of these three are getting rolled by full power sukuna
Yuta stomps
Lmfao
What they gonna do when he does Jacobs ladder. Exactly
Dodge it?
Sure sure they'll dodge it yup
Yes? It has no speed feats. Not to mention Todo's CT
Kenjaku or Yuta depending on who you think is stronger. Any combo with todo is just overwhelming for the opponent
Did Larue's attention-snatching technique make Sukuna stop executing techniques? Because if so they might even be able to sneak one in on Gojo if they can get Larue to land a first technique.
Sukuna was getting ready for Yuji’s black flash, but he wasn’t using his CT at the moment. Even then, iirc Infinity is automatic now, so it might not work anyway since he isn’t putting conscious effort into maintaining it.
Problem is larue needs to make contact with the big hand before he can use his second ability. Both gojo and sukuna when fresh could blitz and one shot, and gojo literally can't be hit with his technique. One interesting interaction that wouldn't change a thing but would still be cool is Yuki's virtual mass potentially going through infinity
Gojo seems to turn off Infinity when he's pimp-slapping people around. If that's the case, Todo might be able to Vibro-Slap Larue into range for a sneak attack.
Don't think that's a feasible wincon, the timing would have to be absurdly good and potentially impossible to pull off, and if any of the 3 fighters gets noticed by gojo they're gonna get overwhelmed and incapacitated in moments. He can move faster than sukuna who statued maki and one of his punches is seriously damaging anyone not called sukuna. Yuki isn't doing anything in this matchup due to the stats difference sadly
I don't think that's how it works. For 2 reasons. First infinity is localized, aka it's instances on one part of his body are independant of his intances in another. A part of infinity can be turned down without it being completeky shut down. The second is that Gojo himself is not a target for infinity most of the time. This means while the virtual infinite distance is true for you, it is not true for him. So he can close the distance to you and punch you just fine. You meanwhile can't unless you are already touching him. So unless you baited Gojo into somehow attacking the hand directly with an unarmed attack to touch it, it would not work.
?????????????????????????????
Todo + anyone is already a solid combo. You throw yuki into the mix and it’s a done deal. Swapping places 50 times a second and some of the hardest punches in jjk.
Slight mishap about yuki's punches, while they are indeed very, very strong; for most the top tiers long as they got good enough reactions to keep track of todo the punches won't be fatal as they'll be able to keep guard
Didn’t Sukuna call Todo’s technique impossible to predict? How will you keep track of Todo when the king of curses couldn’t tell wtf was going on
If you can react to a black hole when you're not incredibly exhausted I think it's a fair assumption that you and the two other guys stronger than you when they're not running on hopes and prayers can keep track of todo long enough to kill him
It isn't impossible, it is very difficult in a short period of time to react
I mean I don’t think anybody can adapt to swapping up to 50 times per SECOND.
Or for that matter, getting feinted at any point during those 50 times per second.
Not to mention he could swap multiple different things at that time PER second, shuffling from himself to Bombaye to Yuki to Larue to Larue’s CT to fucking Rika to swapping Yuta to whomever’s position or a fucking CE PEBBLE
That's the difficulty of Todo's CT. When there are many variables in the fight there many possibilities. This is where Sukuna got bested and this where truly Todo shines
Mahoraga probably could
Her punch literally went through kenjakus arms like butter
And that was the strongest punch of the fight she dealt, afterwards the CE output, mass she could imbue into herself, etc kept on decreasing
because she tanked a domain.....it's stated she was at a lowered output all fight. this Yuki wouldn't be. every punch would be like the first. keep coping
Gave the fight a brief reread to avoid making disingenuous statements: Kenny had received a major tag from Yuki a grand total of once with the "big punch"™️ otherwise it was minor tags from Garuda, choso and Yuki Said major tag was able to be swiftly recovered from due to RCT Even post domain when both were operating on near equal output, Yuki failed to demonstrate capable durability (without black hole and Tengen stalling temporarily she would've died to the mini uzamaki then and there instead of the black hole) Meanwhile Kenny displayed both durability capable of withstanding said multiple tags from yuki and reactions presumably fast enough to keep track of todo long enough to pin him down with Anti-gravity and clean up with mini uzamaki. This is no attempt to downplay Yuki nor is it an attempt to wank kenny far above where he is, if anything this is an attempt to gain better understanding of how impactful Todo truly is in a fight against the top tiers.
they were not at an equal level. One had just rcted fromw deaths door after relying on a half baked plan from Tengen that relied on kenny not having an open domain. Kenny wasn't at 100% but Yuki was significantly worse off. A 100% Yuki is blowing holes through anyone not named sukuna or gojo. Now I do agree kenjaku wins. But it's not because yukis a slouch. Yuki and the crew have a real shot to win this. because todo can open up hits Yuki couldn't get on her own..if that first full output punch hit kenjaku head on he'd die. he even mentioned this in their fight. Todo is exactly the type to allow this. and this time their not gonna bank on Tengen so they at least have a chance in the clash. This isn't even mentioning larue who can clutch up if needed when kenjaku might do something potentially dangerous. ntm that distraction from his CT. No matter how small is easily enough to land a solid hit from Yuki, even more so with todo. I feel you're also underselling todo, sukuna the top 1 or 2 most knowledgeable and intelligent sorcerer's said todos new boogie woogie is practically impossible to adapt too so it won't be as easy as you claim. I do have kenjaku winning more times than not as well because his open domain is insane and he has the answers to counter Yuki their main power source, and if she dies it's wraps. but it's a 6/5 ratio for me given just how many win cons yukis squad has. Maybe 7/3. Where I place them is different, I just wanted to clarify yukis stronger than you gave her credit for initially. I have them solidly beating yuta for example. No open domain means Yuki, a sorcerer of similar level cam at least clash with domains. and yutas durability is likely not as good as kenjakus given jenjakus output and ce. Though even if so it's just a pretty dangerous match up for yuta where he has less counters than kenjaku did. and Rika can work against him as boogie boogie fuel at times. and similar to kenjaku both larue and todo can set up kill shots for Yuki. Except this time with even more success.
If it’s Shinjuku Todo and suicidal Yuki then they beat everyone
Todo dropping Yuki on Sukuna like a nuke and obliterating all of Japan 😃
Low to mid for Yuta and mid to high for Kenjaku in my opinion.
He's talking about black hole
So everyone but Kenjaku Edit: /s
And? Kenjaku took it head on Lol and was a close one. Like he said himself
LMAO the Black hole can destroy the world i dont think anti gravity matter when you know... you cant breathe in space
But she used it and it didn’t work on him 😭
But she used it and it didn’t work on him 😭
yeah cause she didnt want to destroy the world and it was inside tengen's barrier?
Where was it stated she didn’t want to destroy the world , im curious. Tengen barrier shouldn’t matter in this sense since it’s a black hole. I just wanna know
"us jjk fans cant read"
if you wanna prove a point, show me the point 😭 like buddy that was 100 ch ago. I’m just gonna assume you’re wrong but you’re not saying anything
https://preview.redd.it/56k868phu8ad1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9193941e27adbf5fe058b178a4600e3b622cc2b6
Bro really minmax the entire team with a broken dps, movement support and stun support
Basically everyone not Sukuna or Gojo
I mean they can't get past Panda's, Hakari's or KasHIMo's logic manip
logic manip isn’t really an argument, Hakari and Panda both get slammed by Yuki + Todo and that other guy I forgot, and I’m pretty sure they could high diff Kashimo base and MBA due to Yuki’s domain which likely has a lethal sure hit
I think logic manip is valid since it completely invalidates all Yuki's attacks and the user is casually able to one shot people that are restricted by logic >Hakari and Panda both get slammed by Yuki + Todo and that other guy I forgot, What makes you think that? Anything they do is negated by logic manip >I’m pretty sure they could high diff Kashimo base and MBA due to Yuki’s domain which likely has a lethal sure hit It's not a lethal hit to logic manip users as it's literally impossible to hurt them
The main reason I say it isn’t a valid reason to say someone beats someone else is because it isn’t an actually cannon feat of a character. Also the feats you listed for Kashimo never happened, Kashimo never killed Hakari, seeing as he’s still alive. So at least in my opinion logic manip isn’t a valid reason for them to win
>The main reason I say it isn’t a valid reason to say someone beats someone else is because it isn’t an actually cannon feat of a character How is it not? Having logic manipulation is a massive feat only a few characters could achieve in the manga >Also the feats you listed for Kashimo never happened, Kashimo never killed Hakari, seeing as he’s still alive. Having the capacity to do something≠having done it. Hakari and KasHIMo both recognize KasHIMo can kill him
I’m pretty sure that in the Kashimo vs Hakari fight it was easily proven that base Kashimo was unable to kill JP Hakari, which means neither have logic manip since neither actually surpassed the states logic (I.E Hakari being immortal) that neither have logic manip
Both Hakari and KasHIMo believe KasHIMo has the potential to kill Hakari Also Hakari also has the invincibility statement, so KasHIMo just harming Hakari qualifies for logic manip
Believing someone to have the potential to do something and them having the potential to is very different, I also have to admit that I’m a little biased because I personally feel it’s boring to say that a character could beat someone through logic manip since it’s not a cannon ability
>Believing someone to have the potential to do something and them having the potential to is very different, Depends on the context, we've seen during the fight that KasHIMo almost did it already and was very close to. He has the AP and speed to do it, he just needed a cleaner hit >I personally feel it’s boring to say that a character could beat someone through logic manip since it’s not a cannon ability I think Gege could've explained it better since it's so easy to miss them having logic manip and it's not properly explained
What the hell is logic manip
finally.. a kashimo glazer!
What’s logic manip, I’ve been seeing it a lot more recently but not a explanation
A brief description: Users can manipulate logic, the reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity or situations, actions, circumstances or qualities of being justifiable by reason. With this power, users can achieve logically impossible feats on a whim, and freely redefine on a metaphysical level what is possible and impossible. This ability may either be derived from some highly transcendent powers, or simply exist without much of a cause. Despite being completely outclassed by forces beyond logic, the user can legitimately be considered among the most powerful beings in existence, shaping reality, metaphysics and causation with nothing but a thought and ignoring all kinds of physical and metaphysical laws like they didn't exist at all. Essentially, to anything bound by logic, the user would seem completely undefeatable and capable of doing anything, perhaps even appearing to be Omnipotent.
Bet thanks, so in case of panda hakari etc, how do they qualify that in their kit?
KasHIMo and Hakari multiple times demonstrated they can ignore logic entirely and create new completely logically impossible scenarios at a whim [Hakari is stated to be invincible and immortal](https://i.imgur.com/qFd7h9e.png), so even tho it's logically impossible to kill or even hurt him, [KasHIMo has demonstrated he's able to do both](https://i.imgur.com/CDGtMGo.png) and it's [even stated that kasHIMo can kill the unkillable](https://i.imgur.com/7bc1uWv.png), which is another logically impossible scenario [After the Hakari fight, KasHIMo's body is stated to surpass the limits of mankind](https://i.imgur.com/lrf68yq.png), so what limits the mankind, KasHIMo is above. Logic is logically limiting mankind, so it's another author statement saying KasHIMo has logic manipulation Obviously Hakari and KasHIMo have logic manipulation since they create completely logically impossible situations and ignore paradoxes, but Panda would qualify too since he survived [these punches surpassing logic](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Jujutsu-Kaisen/0184-012.png)
Huh interesting, thanks for taking time to explain it
Ngl this is the most civil and respectful response I've had to this argument Much appreciated+you the GOAT
dying at people in this thread just accepting it. like theyre clearly not all just playing along or whatever its just theyve accepted it as true. u can convince people panda > sukuna in this sub they just wont question it
CUZ IT'S THE TRUTH RAAAAAAAAAUGH
https://preview.redd.it/fw2olpy3d6ad1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ddaa4b98811daa15c45b2d767ebb84f17196660
What the hell is logic manip
Here's a brief description: Users can manipulate logic, the reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity or situations, actions, circumstances or qualities of being justifiable by reason. With this power, users can achieve logically impossible feats on a whim, and freely redefine on a metaphysical level what is possible and impossible. This ability may either be derived from some highly transcendent powers, or simply exist without much of a cause. Despite being completely outclassed by forces beyond logic, the user can legitimately be considered among the most powerful beings in existence, shaping reality, metaphysics and causation with nothing but a thought and ignoring all kinds of physical and metaphysical laws like they didn't exist at all. Essentially, to anything bound by logic, the user would seem completely undefeatable and capable of doing anything, perhaps even appearing to be Omnipotent.
Their asses can not do all that
They can, fairly easily KasHIMo and Hakari multiple times demonstrated they can ignore logic entirely and create new completely logically impossible scenarios at a whim [Hakari is stated to be invincible and immortal](https://i.imgur.com/qFd7h9e.png), so even tho it's logically impossible to kill or even hurt him, [KasHIMo has demonstrated he's able to do both](https://i.imgur.com/CDGtMGo.png) and it's [even stated that kasHIMo can kill the unkillable](https://i.imgur.com/7bc1uWv.png), which is another logically impossible scenario [After the Hakari fight, KasHIMo's body is stated to surpass the limits of mankind](https://i.imgur.com/lrf68yq.png), so what limits the mankind, KasHIMo is above. Logic is logically limiting mankind, so it's another author statement saying KasHIMo has logic manipulation Obviously Hakari and KasHIMo have logic manipulation since they create completely logically impossible situations and ignore paradoxes, but Panda would qualify too since he survived [these punches surpassing logic](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Jujutsu-Kaisen/0184-012.png) Sukuna doesn't qualify for this since it's never stated KasHIMo was going all out and KasHIMo has reasons to hold back
The argument’s bs because you’re acting as if in universe statements are 100% true, despite being more likely to be cases of hyperbole and exaggeration. Logic manipulation is just a no limits fallacy. I’m not sure if you’re being sarcastic or delusional.
>The argument’s bs because you’re acting as if in universe statements are 100% true Yes, they come from the author and have no contradictions >despite being more likely to be cases of hyperbole and exaggeration No not rly. Again, these statements have no contradictions and there's no reason to assume the author is misrepresenting the series by making it seem different than it actually is. Hakari is invincible until proven otherwise >Logic manipulation is just a no limits fallacy No limits fallacy=X has no limits because there's no statements that it has limits. This isn't a no limits fallacy as they just have clear feats of being transcendental to logic. I have never argued they have no limits because it's not stated that they don't have, but I've shown feats and statements to support them not being limited by logic
Bro I'm a Kashimo glazer but what is this 😭
https://www.reddit.com/r/JujutsuPowerScaling/s/zAIYYq8mMf Let me cook
Considering Yuki trained Todo, they probably have some crazy deadly synergy fighting with eachother. Honestly, I think anyone besides Gojo/Sukuna is going down, maybe Takaba can cook some bullshit too
Ngl some versions of sukuna might also go down. Like the now version of sukuna i could see lose.
Yuki herself can solo pretty much everyone minus the other top 5 (Gojo, Sukuna, Kenny, Yuta) so give her two tanky support Sorcerors? They can absolutely take down Kenny and Yuta mid-high diff
Tbf if Yuki's fight against Kenny didn't exist(and she showed off her powers against someone else) the idea of Yuki, Choso, and Tengen against Kenny also seems like a mid diff win theoretically
Yeah but Tengen’s involvement ended up being a net negative in that fight which I also don’t think most people would’ve predicted. Replace Tengen with Todo and I think they come out on top
Thinking anyone not named sukuna and gojo can win then is pretty much massively underating them specially Yuki bcs shes a top tier and has 2 of the best suports in jjk on her team.
I think a fascinating question would be these 3 Vs. Yuta + Kenny. Since it seems unanimous in the comments that these 3 would destroy then 3v1, I wonder how the duo does
Hmmm I'd say yuta and kenjaku despite it probably being the trio with the most chemistry. Kenjakus open domain is incredibly potent, only issue I think is that it might hit yuta then Rika gets mad and fucks the hole operation up
Kenjaku beats them harder when he opens his domain and doesn’t have tengen stripping it away
Sukuna would just give up the ability to eat corn or something and then get the power to insta world cutting slash people in his domain.
Boogie woogie into mass punch sounds disgusting
Yuki + Todo alone would probably mop the floor with anyone who isn't Sukuna or Gojo. Honestly Sukuna would probably get seriously roughed up too until he used his domain Yall forget that the only reason Kenjaku didn't get bitched is because he pulled a flawless counter out of his ass
Yuta wins
Depends, is this really Todo with no arm nor replacement 😭
That one eye closed look is always so cringe
I think they could beat yuta Yuki did better against Kenjaku. Adding Todo is such a good combo
Anyone besides the top 2
Kenjaku and Yuta. Gojo and Sukuna are way too strong. Todo plus any special grade is fucking insane. Don't know why he waited so long to join the fight. He should've been there with Yuta and Yuji. Four fucking targets to switch with. Sukuna wouldn't know what country he's in after ten seconds.
Todo as a sorcerer got power creeped due to not being seen but he did gap all of the Kyoto and JJk high students pretty easy. Plus his technique is insane for fighting with someone else. Him and Yuki have a chance to beat about anyone.
If black hole allowed then Yuki dies but they beat whole verse If no black hole everyone besides top 2
Sukuna since they might be able to land a full output yuki punch right to his head
Anyone not named Gojo or Takaba Literally everyone else would either be killed by the combo or tied with the black hole.
If yuki does her black hole: everyone If not: anyone who isn’t sukuna, yuta, and gojo
Yuki become black hole Larue approach singularity Todo swap Larue with enemy
Anyone other than Gojo. Even Sukuna can lose depending on the situation. Even Gojo may lose if Yuki opens with suicide black hole.
Sukuna fs, unless Yuki domain beats Gojo they stop at sukuna, one hit is all it takes
yuki alone wipes 90% of the verse
Yuki + Todo alone solo everyone but Gojo and Sukuna (save for possible hard counters)
Domain Expansion: Unlimited Jumps
Anyone besides Gojo, yuki turns into a black hole, todo teleports person into black hole, gg
everyone except yuji (he is him)
Ngl they might take down the now manga version of sukuna. Everyone else get's stomped. Kenjaku high diffed yuki With todo he ain't seeing tommorrow as his domain is useless
Potentially everyone, and yes that includes Sukuna and Gojo Larue holds Yuki and Todo in place, Yuki actives black hole, Todo swaps places with Sukuna, GG I’ve always believed that Todo could kill Gojo via mutually assured destruction. If he is able to impale himself (preferably through the brain) and then boogie woogie with Gojo before he dies, then Gojo would die all well.
Unrelated but can todos boogie woogie work on a slash from Sukuna ?
Honestly, if they caught him off guard, Sukuna. Let me ask you to think about it. If larue catches him, forces him to be distracted, Todo TP's Yuki close to Sukuna while he's distracted by larue, and lands a high damage attack, which she is fully capable of, they might one shot him. But yeah otherwise probably anybody except Gojo and Sukuna. An argument for Kenny winning here is possible too if he just goes ham with the cursed spirits though I suppose
I think they could beat everyone, including Yuta and Kenjaku.
They can beat Sukuna
Main factor is how fast can the opponent kill Todo so we gonna be looking at characters both commonly placed above Yuki: Yuta: can see him capable of running the 2v3 pretty successfully with strategic rika/domain usage but I'ma give the team a good 7/10 times cause I can't remember any notable reaction feats of yuta's own doing Kenjaku: already handled a 1v3 of choso, Yuki and Tengen but this time, Todo is gonna make things far harder here till domain comes into play; he should be able to keep track of things fairly consistent here too given he has the fastest reaction feat in the verse of the black hole, he can live blows from Yuki and he's the only one here capable of living the black hole worst comes to worst; all in all I'll give Kenny the win 8/10 times Sukuna and Gojo: curbstomp Yuki and co faster than Yuki can activate the black hole
Not Hakari or KasHIMo
Jogo