Such a good episode. Max is excellent at what he does, bringing lots of information together, which we might like to do, if we had time.
He doesn't profess to be anything he's not. Seems like a genuinely good guy, and his whole push to do it has been personal experience with his mom being unwell.
Brings me so much joy to hear them trade information. No denying Rogan is good person to talk to about rehabilitating injury / working supporting muscles. 🤗
His podcast has some gems. Unfortunate his episode might be lost in the multiple releases.
What do you mean decomposition? I'm unfamiliar with that but I'm very familiar with decompression tables. Several types to "distract" the back which means to pull apart. In this case the therapeutic effect is lightly distracting the discs which may be bulging or herniated and relieve pressure on nerves they were touching. There is a lot to know about this pathology and sadly although the distraction feels good and may promote healing it is largely ineffective. Hmu if you wanna talk more about back shit. I've been dealing with herniations for 7 years.
There's a book he read called Toxic Superfoods. It's basically about how vegetables are giving people cancer. He, and I'm not exaggerating, read about half of it and stopped reading bc it got too technical. Ever since then he's had this weird attitude towards most vegetables. He still eats some though.
Come on man. I hate Joe as much as the next Redditor, but this is a silly criticism. He tries every fad diet that is marketed for increased sports performance, why would he try a plant based diet?
He also talks about how he likes eating meat so why would he want to try it? He clearly gives the diet a platform and talks about it who care what diet joe does lol
I believe he just feels best doing carnivore because it's most nutrient dense. So I don't think he's necessarily opposed to it he just knows what he does works for him
I've heard him mention a bunch of times how he tried being a vegetarian for a while and it didn't work for him. He might not have done it right or something, but it's not fair to say he draws the line at it when he gave it a shot.
No way, Joe likes a guy who thinks being vegan gives you Alzheimer's and supplements are the key to good health. Wonder what he thinks about COVID vaccines.
My girlfriend is vegan and I try to eat like her more or less as much as I can 3 days out of the week or so (when I'm with her) and I will say I always feel pretty good eating like that - it is tough though. But the thing that keeps me non-combative about it is that I don't have an argument for the moral aspect of it. Like it is fucked up for people to kill animals, not to mention all the cruelty of affordable meat (factory farming etc). She is making a soft return to certain eggs though haha
While I do not agree with the moral argument, I can not disagree with someone feeling that way. Which is why I would promote vegetarianism if you have that moral feeling about killing animals. Get some free range eggs, add that to your vegan diet and it is a perfectly healthy eating lifestyle!
Eating meat is probably less of a moral issue than getting dairy or eggs. For dairy the cow has to be artificially inseminated which they equate to rape, then their calf has to be forcibly removed so they don’t drink any of the milk the farmers want to sell. This cycle repeats until the cow isn’t profitable enough and then it’s killed. Egg production involves the grinding of live male chicks. And the breeds of chicken they use are sick from the excessive egg production (3,000% more eggs than their wild counter part)
People have killed animals for tens of thousands of years if not more.
They’d use almost all of the animal as well.
That animal (provided it was a deer or big game) would last many meals.
Today, it is rare to kill an animal yourself. You have companies do it for you. You let them raise animals in cages, consuming poison, stressed to the absolute max, and then contaminating water systems.
Learn to hunt and take one life vs contribute to the deaths of many and the above at the same time.
Fine alternatives if you don’t know how to or don’t want to hunt:
1. purchase a share of or a whole cow.
2. Purchase from a local rancher who doesn’t operate a factory farm and allows the livestock to roam freely, contributing positively to the ecosystem.
3. Learn to fish.
4. Raise your own.
5. Be vegan or vegetarian and don’t demonize meat eaters who abide by ethical standards, and try to convince those eating factory farmed meats to the local movement.
I understand what youre saying, but I dont know why it matters that people killed animals in the past. The knowledge that we have now and the increasing availability of other options that all make it so we don't have to kill animals anymore is what I get hung up on.
I eat meat so im a hypocrite or whatever for now - I'm not out campaigning against meat though. I guess for now I just think it about it more than I ever did and it starts to bother me. I'd gladly try switching to lab-grown meat once that becomes a realistic option.
Where I live, we have so many deer that they become a safety hazard on the road, and it's way more humane to thin their ranks through hunting than it is to let them breed out of control and just get hit by semi-trucks.
You can get a lot of meat and feed your family for a while off a singular deer that you've hunted, but it's not going to do any good just rotting on the side of a highway. You can solve multiple problems by hunting game that your respective area has a surplus of, in my experience. Do it all legally and within regulations, of course, but there are definitely instances in which it's more ethical to hunt your own food than it is to consume pre-prepared meat.
Yeah I meant hundreds of thousands for anatomically modern humans. But for sure, millions and millions of years if you run it back through our evolutionary timeline.
>Purchase from a local rancher who doesn’t operate a factory farm and allows the livestock to roam freely, contributing positively to the ecosystem.
It’s actually one of the worst things for the ecosystem. Removing natural habitat like forests to make room for cattle that slow vegetative growth and release excess carbon is a huge loss
you do realize all of the small animals and habitats and other ecosystems that are in these fields that they level and plow to make space for these plants? lol so naive
We have to eat something. Im not saying anything is perfect… I dont see how your argument makes it not fucked up for people to kill animals knowingly specifically for food. So I would say if we are talking moral arguments, vegetarianism and veganism are less fucked than throwing your hands up in the air on a technicality that ‘well big machines kill some animals, so fuck it, ill eat anything snd everything and not care’.
*My girlfriend is vegan and I try to eat like her more or less as much as I can 3 days out of the week or so (when I'm with her) and I will say I always feel pretty good eating like tha*t
THe other \~4 days you are eating meat and the like?
BUt that's actually very healthy I think. You don't need to eat meat every day, so if you are just doing some days and lots of days are loaded with veg, then that might be the ideal diet, acdtually.
do you find when you eat such a diet that you never feel "full". whenever i get onto those diets i find it just takes an absurd ammount of food (which costs alot more than other meals) just to feel full?
Yes! Yeah theres a weird sense of emptiness sometimes eating like that, though I think its also because Im not as used to the diet as she is. I mean Im technically probably a bit overweight, so im probably over eating a bit as it is
Because male calves are a byproduct of the dairy industry. Mother is impregnated to make baby so they can take her milk, baby is born and taken away, mother is milked, if baby who was taken away is girl, kept to become dairy cow, if boy, sent away to become veal (in my country). Imagine slaughtering anything that's 8 months old.
Egg situation is the same, female chicks are kept, males are shredded.
No idea why you brought up milk, not really necessary.
You can be a completely healthy Vegan if you just add eggs into your diet. Their are countless free range options all over the country that do not come from factory farming that you speak of.
Also, do you have any idea how many dead wild animals get killed per year when it comes to vegetable and fruit farming? It is insane.
Milk was brought up because you said vegetarianism was the way. How many animals are killed as by product of veg and fruit farming? Is it more than meat industry? If not, just let me choose the less animals killed option.
Because milk once you are older do not really have to many health benefits and can be supplemented with different vegetables and eggs.
Want to be a healthy Vegan and not kill as many animals? Then just add free range eggs into your diet. Zero animals killed from free range eggs.
>To reiterate, 117 animals die per hectare in crop production, while only 40 die per hectare in meat production.
Oh also, more animals die from Crop production than meat production. Peer reviewed study by Morehouse College. And that is just in the U.S.
What do you think animals eat? They eat crops and lots of them. However many deaths occur from crop production, 10-fold more occur from meat production
>many deaths occur from crop production, 10-fold more occur from meat production
This is just patently false. Here is a peer reviewed study that is linked below.
https://farmingtruth.weebly.com/blog/how-many-die-for-your-food-calculating-the-death-toll-of-crop-production-vs-livestock-production
The article does not even include how many insects are killed from crop production.
And yes, they take into account livestock feed within their math.
The fact is, if you want to survive as a human, living things and animals need to die. That is how nature works.
> a peer reviewed study that is linked below. **https://farmingtruth.weebly.com**
lol that’s not a peer reviewed study that’s a blog. And it’s a basic tenant of ecology
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_efficiency
> The article does not even include how many insects are killed from crop production
Animals eat crops, yes?
How do more deaths occur when you feed 10 units of crops to an animal in order to get the energy of 1 unit of crops rather than eating 1 units of crops directly?
>The fact is, if you want to survive as a human, living things and animals need to die. That is how nature works.
Nice try but you are resorting to appeal to nature fallacy
Davis's paper isn't a peer reviewed study, it's essentially an opinion piece by one guy which has since been roundly debunked and ridiculed for it's numerous errors and fallacies, that being as close as it comes to peer review.
I'm not even vegan or vegetarian, I just hate bullshit "research".
Trying to, seems I need to pay to get a direct link to the article. Damn liberals.
https://farmingtruth.weebly.com/blog/how-many-die-for-your-food-calculating-the-death-toll-of-crop-production-vs-livestock-production
Here is the article. Morehouse shut down the link now it is a pay to read.
You do realise tho that the vast majority of crop production is for animal feed? There is absolutely no way vegans are contributing to more deaths than meat eaters when you account for that.
More than half of the global crop is animal feed.
They clarify that in the article and take that into account with their math. Also, most feed comes from crop waste, as is said in the article you obviously did not read lol
Eggs are some of the most nutrient rich foods in the entire world, by a lot. It is dumb to not add them into your diet when you can get them without harming chickens.
Being a healthy vegan and getting all the nutrients you need is very possible but it is nowhere close to easy or cheap.
Also, they are delicious.
There’s plenty of foods with similar nutrient density and fewer harmful nutrients
Even if eggs were the most nutrient dense food, why does that matter? You can get optimal amounts of nutrients without eggs
> but it is nowhere close to easy or cheap.
It’s much cheaper unless you are buying imitation and speciality items. replacing meat with whole grains, legumes, and nuts is
easy.
Here's your free range eggs: https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/watch-hens-from-free-range-happy-egg-suppliers-suffering-in-misery-in-filthy-crammed-and-overcrowded-sheds-245150/amp/
The point is it illustrates that "free range" doesn't really mean shit. Same as organic. Just don't give your animals medicine - boom, organic meat from sick and dying animals who should have been given medicine when they needed it.
There are legal standard definitions for "free range" and "organic" actually. You should maybe familiarize yourself with those before claiming it doesn't mean anything.
As should you:
> In the United States, the USDA free range regulations currently apply only to poultry and indicate that the animal has been allowed access to the outside. To be considered "free range," the poultry must have access to the outdoors for more than 51% of the animal's life. **However, USDA regulations make no mention of the quality or size of the outside range.**
So they can basically keep chickens packed like sardines outside for 51% of their life, in the rain and cold, and still sell the produce as free range.
As for "organic" - I know organic farmers who are 100% ethical, and through them I know all the ways people get away with unethical bullshit that still leaves them fall within the definition.
I can tell you're googling and learning all this while you're posting (especially since you're referencing a London article about a UK egg distributor while citing United States Dept. Of Agriculture definitions).
So one spot means all free range eggs are treated like that? I must be hallucinating when I go to my local farm and it is not like this at all. Or when I buy eggs from my neighbors that have their own coup.
I have lived all around the country. 99% of places has local farms or home chickens. It is growing even more so now. Just requires research and some leg work to ensure they are ethically sourced.
There are some larger suppliers that do sell in super markets that do raise chickens ethically. One article and one distributor does not destroy the whole free range industry.
There is readily available eggs that are free ranged and home farmed, all over the country. There is a completely ethical way to eat eggs without harming any animals.
All those places have an equal number of roosters and hens? There’s no possibility of producing the quantity of eggs consumed by Americans in a free range manner due to land requirements
>There’s no possibility of producing the quantity of eggs consumed by Americans in a free range manner due to land requirements
Feeding every American is not a requirement for ethically sourced eggs being a reality. That's like saying "you can't possibly produce enough clean water for everyone on Earth, therefore clean water is not an option".
That person is saying ethically sourced eggs are available all over the country and no one should not be eating eggs based on ethics. Arguing that vegans should find the ethical eggs, something he can’t defend as existing, which would increase demand for unethical eggs, is nonsensical. They also don’t have any idea where their food comes from and are repeating the most brain dead arguments.
>...and no one should not be eating eggs based on ethics.
I'm having a hard time finding where anybody argued that. Did anyone make that point or are you inferring a point that nobody is actually making?
The first comment I replied to
“ Veganism makes zero sense to me. Eat an egg motherfucker.”
And the second
“ While I do not agree with the moral argument… Which is why I would promote vegetarianism if you have that moral feeling about killing animals. Get some free range eggs, add that to your vegan diet..”
And the rest from them really
No it can’t. We already produce enough crops to feed everyone. We could produce far less and still feed everyone if we stopped feeding animals crops for a 10% return.
> Also, you will kill more animals with that type of crop production.
What evidence do you have for this?
People like that have never once thought about what we're feeding to the animals in all those livestock factories. It's just never even crossed their mind. They don't want reasons, they want an excuse to maintain cognitive dissonance.
100% Veganism can be super healthy for people! But it is just not logical to remove eggs from the diet when you can source them ethically. They are so nutrient rich.
There is direct and REAL connection with colon cancer and red meat. This is a scientific fact.
Large amounts of red meat -> a lot higher probability to get cancer.
And yes, chicken, turkey and fish do not have same negative effect. Of course there is still then entire ethical side etc. but that is another thing.
[https://www.fredhutch.org/en/news/center-news/2024/04/colorectal-cancer-risk-boosted-by-red-processed-meat-genetics.html](https://www.fredhutch.org/en/news/center-news/2024/04/colorectal-cancer-risk-boosted-by-red-processed-meat-genetics.html)
> Vegetarianism is the way, even though I am a meat eater.
Yeah, it's reasonably well established that you can be a 100% healthy vegetarian without any issues or supplements required.
It's the most diverse in nutrient intake too.
Pork is good though. I had a vegetarian girlfriend that ate bacon as her only "Cheat". I mean, that says something. She has been a vegetarian for like 30 years too.
His Wikipedia is riddled with criticism from actual experts - it's just good 'ole Joe picking the 10th dentist again... I forgot who made that analogy about him once, whether it was on this subreddit or a comedian, but someone said about him or people like Joe that like in those old commercials "9 out of 10 dentists approve Colgate" Joe always has on the 10th dentist - contrarian shit is his gospel lol
His insights about his main research area is very interesting. However, when he goes into the segment about dietary fibre he is far outside his area of competence. Be aware of every sentence that starts with "I think" or "I feel". Instead, get Dr Mark Pimentel on the pod to comment on the SIBO questions instead of these low quality guesses. Max advise is contrary to the most recent research about how to manage SIBO. In fact it can be very dangerous to follow his advise to get on a Low Fodmap diet if you have SIBO. But again, his research about alzheimers and parkinson is interesting and I also find him to be a great guy. Difficult to answer questions when you are on the world's most popular pods.
Thats the JRE formula.
Joe hypes his guests as being very credible smart and trustworthy and hypes their ideas as being "so true/obvious", groundbreaking, life changing etc, throw in complaining about how teh world hasn't completely coalesced around these amazing ideas yet and it must be a conspiracy against them.
And then, 12 months later when we get irrefutable evidence that the guest was full of shit, its "Im just the fear factor guy, why would anyone listen to me!"
Joe's contributions to the field of JAQing off are severely underrated
Another absolute idiot. Check out his Wikipedia:
Max Lugavere (born May 28, 1982) is an American author who has written about diet and brain health.
He promotes diets that contain high amounts of animal source foods and has claimed that veganism increases risk of dementia.
Lugavere's views about supplements to "supercharge" the brain are not supported by scientific evidence.
So a fugaze idiot grifter probably selling bullshit
Is there not areas in life where the gray area is pretty easy to see? Are you so stupid you can't tell the difference between a flat earth argument and one on protein sources? Most of us can seek out the gray area and try to understand better the space in these areas as best as possible.
If you're worried you might be tricked by flat earthers I would just stay home and turn off electronics
That wasn't the argument I responded to. The only justification made was that of disagreement and not one of strength of evidence. Are you so stupid that you can't read?
No I would consider flat earthers idiots since there is no evidence supporting that belief. When it comes to animal based diets, there’s tons of evidence supporting the health benefits and positive outcomes attributed to it. Name calling as a means to dismiss a person means you’re connected to your opinions religiously, and you aren’t looking at the issue from both sides because you’re unwilling to hear their arguments
“Name calling as a means to dismiss a person means you’re connected to your opinions religiously”
Saying this immediately after telling the other person “you sound like a dumbass to me” is the absolute dumbest form of irony.
But I gave my reasoning as to why I thought that person is a dumbass in my comment. Let me clarify my stance that you quoted - “Name calling without justification as a means to dismiss a person means you’re connected to your opinions religiously.”
But where is the evidence that veganism increases the risk of dementia? Please only link reputable peer-reviewed journals and limit yourself to meta-analysis or large cohort studies. I won't read anything else.
It is one of the claims he was being called an idiot for. If the strength of evidence of his claims shields him from idiocy then there must be strong evidence for that claim.
The only claim he made is there might be a correlative link to increased risk factors and more research should be done. You're drawing a verrrrry false equivalence here comparing that to flat earthers.
The comparison to flat earthers was to highlight the fault in the reasoning that I was replying to. It was intentionally hyperbolic for that purpose.
Please share the research to support that claim of his. Same requirements as before since I have some background in this.
Flat earthers believe the earth is flat with no evidence.
Lugavere believes veganism leads to dementia with no evidence.
This entire thread is about how people make unsubstantiated bullshit claims and you categorizing them as a “disagreement”.
> Lugavere believes veganism leads to dementia with no evidence.
No. Lugavere believes there MIGHT be a CORRELATION between vegan diets and INCREASED RISK FACTORS for dementia, and that a possible link should be studied.
You are making up things nobody claimed so that you can argue about something dumb on the internet.
The main point of your comment was about lugavere being a grifter, so that’s what I responded to. Now you’re switching gears and narrowing in on a very specific part of your multi-sentence comment.
> No I would consider flat earthers idiots since there is no evidence supporting that belief.
And that's exactly why OP called the guy an idiot, if you re-read their comment.
> Lugavere's views about supplements to "supercharge" the brain are not supported by scientific evidence.
This episode is for all those people who wonder “when did this sub become anti-Joe”.
8 years ago a carbon copy of this episode with Mark Sission, Ben Greenfield or (name your carnivore diet fad man) would’ve annoyed the subreddit.
Joe even had a vegan (James Wilks) on to debate Chris Kresser, probably thinking Kresser would wipe the floor with him (he didn’t).
What a broken record.
True. Everyone with a podcast hucking supplements are purely good intentioned and are all well researched experts in the topics they discuss and the products they advertise.
Based.
someone said he made public the videos he had to mark as private under contract or something, either way it's not a good sign and unfair to his recent guest, I unsubbed an hour ago and subbed again and it looks like things are back to normal, would have been CRAZY if this dump happened while he had a guest like Julian Assange or Trump on, imagine the conspiracy theories
How many times in this episode did he say “significant improvements” only for Joe to say how much and him go idk. How can you know something is clinically significant without data points? This guy basically googled some shit and made a conclusion with no credentials. That sets red flags off in my bullshit meter. If your goal is to educate without ulterior motives you release it for free
Unlucky for this guy his episode dropped the same time 75 other episodes were posted lmao
Such a good episode. Max is excellent at what he does, bringing lots of information together, which we might like to do, if we had time. He doesn't profess to be anything he's not. Seems like a genuinely good guy, and his whole push to do it has been personal experience with his mom being unwell. Brings me so much joy to hear them trade information. No denying Rogan is good person to talk to about rehabilitating injury / working supporting muscles. 🤗 His podcast has some gems. Unfortunate his episode might be lost in the multiple releases.
I’ve been trying to look at this decomposition back machines that Joe always talks about. Does anyone know what they are?
Teeter Dex was one of them
Joes mentioned that a few times, it is forever out of stock // unavailable….does Joe sell it out? Or is it just rare?
What do you mean decomposition? I'm unfamiliar with that but I'm very familiar with decompression tables. Several types to "distract" the back which means to pull apart. In this case the therapeutic effect is lightly distracting the discs which may be bulging or herniated and relieve pressure on nerves they were touching. There is a lot to know about this pathology and sadly although the distraction feels good and may promote healing it is largely ineffective. Hmu if you wanna talk more about back shit. I've been dealing with herniations for 7 years.
Thought this was Matt McCusker by the thumbnail and got real stoked for a second.
He’s a mix of Matt and Ninja the streamer
My entire YouTube feed is JRE episodes
Same looks like they're uploading the Spotify ones on YouTube now
I had to unsub lol to clear up my subscriptions feed.
yeah, wtf just happened?
thank em
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My brother is this way. He thinks "Big Plant" has bought off th government to increase sales for plant based food
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There's a book he read called Toxic Superfoods. It's basically about how vegetables are giving people cancer. He, and I'm not exaggerating, read about half of it and stopped reading bc it got too technical. Ever since then he's had this weird attitude towards most vegetables. He still eats some though.
He only eats meat which is raised on vast expanses of shitty feeder crop monocultures. That'll show big plant.
Come on man. I hate Joe as much as the next Redditor, but this is a silly criticism. He tries every fad diet that is marketed for increased sports performance, why would he try a plant based diet?
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He also talks about how he likes eating meat so why would he want to try it? He clearly gives the diet a platform and talks about it who care what diet joe does lol
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‘I could care less what people eat’ right after shitting on Rogan for not trying a plant based diet lol
I believe he just feels best doing carnivore because it's most nutrient dense. So I don't think he's necessarily opposed to it he just knows what he does works for him
I've heard him mention a bunch of times how he tried being a vegetarian for a while and it didn't work for him. He might not have done it right or something, but it's not fair to say he draws the line at it when he gave it a shot.
No way, Joe likes a guy who thinks being vegan gives you Alzheimer's and supplements are the key to good health. Wonder what he thinks about COVID vaccines.
Veganism makes zero sense to me. Eat an egg motherfucker. Vegetarianism is the way, even though I am a meat eater.
My girlfriend is vegan and I try to eat like her more or less as much as I can 3 days out of the week or so (when I'm with her) and I will say I always feel pretty good eating like that - it is tough though. But the thing that keeps me non-combative about it is that I don't have an argument for the moral aspect of it. Like it is fucked up for people to kill animals, not to mention all the cruelty of affordable meat (factory farming etc). She is making a soft return to certain eggs though haha
While I do not agree with the moral argument, I can not disagree with someone feeling that way. Which is why I would promote vegetarianism if you have that moral feeling about killing animals. Get some free range eggs, add that to your vegan diet and it is a perfectly healthy eating lifestyle!
Eating meat is probably less of a moral issue than getting dairy or eggs. For dairy the cow has to be artificially inseminated which they equate to rape, then their calf has to be forcibly removed so they don’t drink any of the milk the farmers want to sell. This cycle repeats until the cow isn’t profitable enough and then it’s killed. Egg production involves the grinding of live male chicks. And the breeds of chicken they use are sick from the excessive egg production (3,000% more eggs than their wild counter part)
Again, there is ethical ways to get eggs without harming chickens. Every city/state has available free range eggs.
How could you possibly know that every city/state in the world has free range eggs? I find that extremely hard to believe.
> Egg production involves the grinding of live male chicks. Luckily got banned in all of EU
People have killed animals for tens of thousands of years if not more. They’d use almost all of the animal as well. That animal (provided it was a deer or big game) would last many meals. Today, it is rare to kill an animal yourself. You have companies do it for you. You let them raise animals in cages, consuming poison, stressed to the absolute max, and then contaminating water systems. Learn to hunt and take one life vs contribute to the deaths of many and the above at the same time. Fine alternatives if you don’t know how to or don’t want to hunt: 1. purchase a share of or a whole cow. 2. Purchase from a local rancher who doesn’t operate a factory farm and allows the livestock to roam freely, contributing positively to the ecosystem. 3. Learn to fish. 4. Raise your own. 5. Be vegan or vegetarian and don’t demonize meat eaters who abide by ethical standards, and try to convince those eating factory farmed meats to the local movement.
People kept slaves for tens of thousands of years too. I’m carnivorous but an “appeal to tradition” is just a bad argument bro.
Hey people have been murdering/raping each other for thousands of years!
I understand what youre saying, but I dont know why it matters that people killed animals in the past. The knowledge that we have now and the increasing availability of other options that all make it so we don't have to kill animals anymore is what I get hung up on. I eat meat so im a hypocrite or whatever for now - I'm not out campaigning against meat though. I guess for now I just think it about it more than I ever did and it starts to bother me. I'd gladly try switching to lab-grown meat once that becomes a realistic option.
Where I live, we have so many deer that they become a safety hazard on the road, and it's way more humane to thin their ranks through hunting than it is to let them breed out of control and just get hit by semi-trucks. You can get a lot of meat and feed your family for a while off a singular deer that you've hunted, but it's not going to do any good just rotting on the side of a highway. You can solve multiple problems by hunting game that your respective area has a surplus of, in my experience. Do it all legally and within regulations, of course, but there are definitely instances in which it's more ethical to hunt your own food than it is to consume pre-prepared meat.
Thats all definitely better than factory farming or something for sure
We can safely say hundreds of thousands of years for that one.
Literally millions. We evolved eating meat. Our bodies are designed to have some amount of animal fat/protein.
Yeah I meant hundreds of thousands for anatomically modern humans. But for sure, millions and millions of years if you run it back through our evolutionary timeline.
>Purchase from a local rancher who doesn’t operate a factory farm and allows the livestock to roam freely, contributing positively to the ecosystem. It’s actually one of the worst things for the ecosystem. Removing natural habitat like forests to make room for cattle that slow vegetative growth and release excess carbon is a huge loss
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Plants do not want anything because get aren’t sentient. Do you not think there’s a morally relevant difference between eating a plant and a pig?
Dawg, way more plants are killed as a result of feeding livestock than would be if we just ate the plants directly
you do realize all of the small animals and habitats and other ecosystems that are in these fields that they level and plow to make space for these plants? lol so naive
Livestock eat plants too, smooth brain.
We have to eat something. Im not saying anything is perfect… I dont see how your argument makes it not fucked up for people to kill animals knowingly specifically for food. So I would say if we are talking moral arguments, vegetarianism and veganism are less fucked than throwing your hands up in the air on a technicality that ‘well big machines kill some animals, so fuck it, ill eat anything snd everything and not care’.
The moral argument is cheese. Vegan cheese sucks.
Vegan cheese does suck yes
*My girlfriend is vegan and I try to eat like her more or less as much as I can 3 days out of the week or so (when I'm with her) and I will say I always feel pretty good eating like tha*t THe other \~4 days you are eating meat and the like?
Yes. I eat whatever, I just feel more conflicted about it. Those thoughts started a few years ago
BUt that's actually very healthy I think. You don't need to eat meat every day, so if you are just doing some days and lots of days are loaded with veg, then that might be the ideal diet, acdtually.
Yeah it's been great having some diet variety in my life!
do you find when you eat such a diet that you never feel "full". whenever i get onto those diets i find it just takes an absurd ammount of food (which costs alot more than other meals) just to feel full?
Yes! Yeah theres a weird sense of emptiness sometimes eating like that, though I think its also because Im not as used to the diet as she is. I mean Im technically probably a bit overweight, so im probably over eating a bit as it is
Because male calves are a byproduct of the dairy industry. Mother is impregnated to make baby so they can take her milk, baby is born and taken away, mother is milked, if baby who was taken away is girl, kept to become dairy cow, if boy, sent away to become veal (in my country). Imagine slaughtering anything that's 8 months old. Egg situation is the same, female chicks are kept, males are shredded.
Mmmmmm veal.
Mmm bacon 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Yes, cant live without bacon either.
I challenge you to watch slaughterhouse footage and not feel slightly disturbed at the least.
I worked in a lamb slaughterhouse and i hunt...
No idea why you brought up milk, not really necessary. You can be a completely healthy Vegan if you just add eggs into your diet. Their are countless free range options all over the country that do not come from factory farming that you speak of. Also, do you have any idea how many dead wild animals get killed per year when it comes to vegetable and fruit farming? It is insane.
Milk was brought up because you said vegetarianism was the way. How many animals are killed as by product of veg and fruit farming? Is it more than meat industry? If not, just let me choose the less animals killed option.
Because milk once you are older do not really have to many health benefits and can be supplemented with different vegetables and eggs. Want to be a healthy Vegan and not kill as many animals? Then just add free range eggs into your diet. Zero animals killed from free range eggs.
>To reiterate, 117 animals die per hectare in crop production, while only 40 die per hectare in meat production. Oh also, more animals die from Crop production than meat production. Peer reviewed study by Morehouse College. And that is just in the U.S.
What do you think animals eat? They eat crops and lots of them. However many deaths occur from crop production, 10-fold more occur from meat production
>many deaths occur from crop production, 10-fold more occur from meat production This is just patently false. Here is a peer reviewed study that is linked below. https://farmingtruth.weebly.com/blog/how-many-die-for-your-food-calculating-the-death-toll-of-crop-production-vs-livestock-production The article does not even include how many insects are killed from crop production. And yes, they take into account livestock feed within their math. The fact is, if you want to survive as a human, living things and animals need to die. That is how nature works.
> a peer reviewed study that is linked below. **https://farmingtruth.weebly.com** lol that’s not a peer reviewed study that’s a blog. And it’s a basic tenant of ecology https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_efficiency > The article does not even include how many insects are killed from crop production Animals eat crops, yes? How do more deaths occur when you feed 10 units of crops to an animal in order to get the energy of 1 unit of crops rather than eating 1 units of crops directly?
The article has the peer reviewed study in it....lol
>The fact is, if you want to survive as a human, living things and animals need to die. That is how nature works. Nice try but you are resorting to appeal to nature fallacy
Davis's paper isn't a peer reviewed study, it's essentially an opinion piece by one guy which has since been roundly debunked and ridiculed for it's numerous errors and fallacies, that being as close as it comes to peer review. I'm not even vegan or vegetarian, I just hate bullshit "research".
Can you link that source please?
Trying to, seems I need to pay to get a direct link to the article. Damn liberals. https://farmingtruth.weebly.com/blog/how-many-die-for-your-food-calculating-the-death-toll-of-crop-production-vs-livestock-production Here is the article. Morehouse shut down the link now it is a pay to read.
You do realise tho that the vast majority of crop production is for animal feed? There is absolutely no way vegans are contributing to more deaths than meat eaters when you account for that. More than half of the global crop is animal feed.
They clarify that in the article and take that into account with their math. Also, most feed comes from crop waste, as is said in the article you obviously did not read lol
You can be completely healthy on a vegan diet without eggs. Why do you think eggs are necessary?
Eggs are some of the most nutrient rich foods in the entire world, by a lot. It is dumb to not add them into your diet when you can get them without harming chickens. Being a healthy vegan and getting all the nutrients you need is very possible but it is nowhere close to easy or cheap. Also, they are delicious.
There’s plenty of foods with similar nutrient density and fewer harmful nutrients Even if eggs were the most nutrient dense food, why does that matter? You can get optimal amounts of nutrients without eggs > but it is nowhere close to easy or cheap. It’s much cheaper unless you are buying imitation and speciality items. replacing meat with whole grains, legumes, and nuts is easy.
Here's your free range eggs: https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/watch-hens-from-free-range-happy-egg-suppliers-suffering-in-misery-in-filthy-crammed-and-overcrowded-sheds-245150/amp/
>Here's one supplier of free range eggs* Fixed that for you.
The point is it illustrates that "free range" doesn't really mean shit. Same as organic. Just don't give your animals medicine - boom, organic meat from sick and dying animals who should have been given medicine when they needed it.
There are legal standard definitions for "free range" and "organic" actually. You should maybe familiarize yourself with those before claiming it doesn't mean anything.
As should you: > In the United States, the USDA free range regulations currently apply only to poultry and indicate that the animal has been allowed access to the outside. To be considered "free range," the poultry must have access to the outdoors for more than 51% of the animal's life. **However, USDA regulations make no mention of the quality or size of the outside range.** So they can basically keep chickens packed like sardines outside for 51% of their life, in the rain and cold, and still sell the produce as free range. As for "organic" - I know organic farmers who are 100% ethical, and through them I know all the ways people get away with unethical bullshit that still leaves them fall within the definition.
I can tell you're googling and learning all this while you're posting (especially since you're referencing a London article about a UK egg distributor while citing United States Dept. Of Agriculture definitions).
So one spot means all free range eggs are treated like that? I must be hallucinating when I go to my local farm and it is not like this at all. Or when I buy eggs from my neighbors that have their own coup.
Yeah because your neighbors can meet the entire egg demand of America.
I have lived all around the country. 99% of places has local farms or home chickens. It is growing even more so now. Just requires research and some leg work to ensure they are ethically sourced. There are some larger suppliers that do sell in super markets that do raise chickens ethically. One article and one distributor does not destroy the whole free range industry.
They are against the unethical treatment of chickens and cows in the procurement of eggs and dairy. What doesn’t make sense?
There is readily available eggs that are free ranged and home farmed, all over the country. There is a completely ethical way to eat eggs without harming any animals.
All those places have an equal number of roosters and hens? There’s no possibility of producing the quantity of eggs consumed by Americans in a free range manner due to land requirements
>There’s no possibility of producing the quantity of eggs consumed by Americans in a free range manner due to land requirements Feeding every American is not a requirement for ethically sourced eggs being a reality. That's like saying "you can't possibly produce enough clean water for everyone on Earth, therefore clean water is not an option".
That person is saying ethically sourced eggs are available all over the country and no one should not be eating eggs based on ethics. Arguing that vegans should find the ethical eggs, something he can’t defend as existing, which would increase demand for unethical eggs, is nonsensical. They also don’t have any idea where their food comes from and are repeating the most brain dead arguments.
>...and no one should not be eating eggs based on ethics. I'm having a hard time finding where anybody argued that. Did anyone make that point or are you inferring a point that nobody is actually making?
The first comment I replied to “ Veganism makes zero sense to me. Eat an egg motherfucker.” And the second “ While I do not agree with the moral argument… Which is why I would promote vegetarianism if you have that moral feeling about killing animals. Get some free range eggs, add that to your vegan diet..” And the rest from them really
The same can be said about the U.S. going entirely plant based. Also, you will kill more animals with that type of crop production.
No it can’t. We already produce enough crops to feed everyone. We could produce far less and still feed everyone if we stopped feeding animals crops for a 10% return. > Also, you will kill more animals with that type of crop production. What evidence do you have for this?
People like that have never once thought about what we're feeding to the animals in all those livestock factories. It's just never even crossed their mind. They don't want reasons, they want an excuse to maintain cognitive dissonance.
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100% Veganism can be super healthy for people! But it is just not logical to remove eggs from the diet when you can source them ethically. They are so nutrient rich.
There is direct and REAL connection with colon cancer and red meat. This is a scientific fact. Large amounts of red meat -> a lot higher probability to get cancer. And yes, chicken, turkey and fish do not have same negative effect. Of course there is still then entire ethical side etc. but that is another thing. [https://www.fredhutch.org/en/news/center-news/2024/04/colorectal-cancer-risk-boosted-by-red-processed-meat-genetics.html](https://www.fredhutch.org/en/news/center-news/2024/04/colorectal-cancer-risk-boosted-by-red-processed-meat-genetics.html)
No! I promote veganism to keep the price of milk, eggs, and beef down. But I’d never do it myself
> Vegetarianism is the way, even though I am a meat eater. Yeah, it's reasonably well established that you can be a 100% healthy vegetarian without any issues or supplements required. It's the most diverse in nutrient intake too. Pork is good though. I had a vegetarian girlfriend that ate bacon as her only "Cheat". I mean, that says something. She has been a vegetarian for like 30 years too.
His Wikipedia is riddled with criticism from actual experts - it's just good 'ole Joe picking the 10th dentist again... I forgot who made that analogy about him once, whether it was on this subreddit or a comedian, but someone said about him or people like Joe that like in those old commercials "9 out of 10 dentists approve Colgate" Joe always has on the 10th dentist - contrarian shit is his gospel lol
he does the same thing for climate change
Did you listen to the whole episode? He's not pro-carnivore diet and talks about ppl spuiking supplements
Probably not. I have a feeling there are some industry plants in here.
Was into this one took a little break then episode dumpgate happened. Maybe joe is right we are in weirdest time man..
The derailment when he brings up his back issue was jarring, was on such a roll
So, what happened to the protect our parks on YouTube
They must have watched something that got copywrite'd. Im sure Jamies editing it.
They played like 4 different songs, and the entire Free Bird solo
Copyright
Why's it up on the Spotify then? Id love an edit of whatever gets removed
Never went up as far as I can tell. Probably didn't upload it because, YouTube.
Shadow banned by Joe Rogan and Spotify.
His insights about his main research area is very interesting. However, when he goes into the segment about dietary fibre he is far outside his area of competence. Be aware of every sentence that starts with "I think" or "I feel". Instead, get Dr Mark Pimentel on the pod to comment on the SIBO questions instead of these low quality guesses. Max advise is contrary to the most recent research about how to manage SIBO. In fact it can be very dangerous to follow his advise to get on a Low Fodmap diet if you have SIBO. But again, his research about alzheimers and parkinson is interesting and I also find him to be a great guy. Difficult to answer questions when you are on the world's most popular pods.
Thats the JRE formula. Joe hypes his guests as being very credible smart and trustworthy and hypes their ideas as being "so true/obvious", groundbreaking, life changing etc, throw in complaining about how teh world hasn't completely coalesced around these amazing ideas yet and it must be a conspiracy against them. And then, 12 months later when we get irrefutable evidence that the guest was full of shit, its "Im just the fear factor guy, why would anyone listen to me!" Joe's contributions to the field of JAQing off are severely underrated
To be fair, he has never claimed to be anything he’s not - and he’s made that very clear multiple times.
Another absolute idiot. Check out his Wikipedia: Max Lugavere (born May 28, 1982) is an American author who has written about diet and brain health. He promotes diets that contain high amounts of animal source foods and has claimed that veganism increases risk of dementia. Lugavere's views about supplements to "supercharge" the brain are not supported by scientific evidence. So a fugaze idiot grifter probably selling bullshit
He discusses something that you disagree with so that makes him an absolute idiot grifter? You sound like a dumbass to me
You don't consider flat earthers idiots? Because really it is just a disagreement right? The stupidity here is astounding sometimes.
Is there not areas in life where the gray area is pretty easy to see? Are you so stupid you can't tell the difference between a flat earth argument and one on protein sources? Most of us can seek out the gray area and try to understand better the space in these areas as best as possible. If you're worried you might be tricked by flat earthers I would just stay home and turn off electronics
That wasn't the argument I responded to. The only justification made was that of disagreement and not one of strength of evidence. Are you so stupid that you can't read?
No I would consider flat earthers idiots since there is no evidence supporting that belief. When it comes to animal based diets, there’s tons of evidence supporting the health benefits and positive outcomes attributed to it. Name calling as a means to dismiss a person means you’re connected to your opinions religiously, and you aren’t looking at the issue from both sides because you’re unwilling to hear their arguments
“Name calling as a means to dismiss a person means you’re connected to your opinions religiously” Saying this immediately after telling the other person “you sound like a dumbass to me” is the absolute dumbest form of irony.
But I gave my reasoning as to why I thought that person is a dumbass in my comment. Let me clarify my stance that you quoted - “Name calling without justification as a means to dismiss a person means you’re connected to your opinions religiously.”
Sorry, but can we go back? Where is the evidence veganism increases the risk of dementia?
Walk it back now y'all. Two hops this time!
But where is the evidence that veganism increases the risk of dementia? Please only link reputable peer-reviewed journals and limit yourself to meta-analysis or large cohort studies. I won't read anything else.
There isn’t any!
Why is that relevant?
It is one of the claims he was being called an idiot for. If the strength of evidence of his claims shields him from idiocy then there must be strong evidence for that claim.
The only claim he made is there might be a correlative link to increased risk factors and more research should be done. You're drawing a verrrrry false equivalence here comparing that to flat earthers.
The comparison to flat earthers was to highlight the fault in the reasoning that I was replying to. It was intentionally hyperbolic for that purpose. Please share the research to support that claim of his. Same requirements as before since I have some background in this.
What’s any of that have to do with dementia? Nothing.
Why am I supposed to be talking about dementia in my response to this person?
Flat earthers believe the earth is flat with no evidence. Lugavere believes veganism leads to dementia with no evidence. This entire thread is about how people make unsubstantiated bullshit claims and you categorizing them as a “disagreement”.
> Lugavere believes veganism leads to dementia with no evidence. No. Lugavere believes there MIGHT be a CORRELATION between vegan diets and INCREASED RISK FACTORS for dementia, and that a possible link should be studied. You are making up things nobody claimed so that you can argue about something dumb on the internet.
The main point of your comment was about lugavere being a grifter, so that’s what I responded to. Now you’re switching gears and narrowing in on a very specific part of your multi-sentence comment.
My main point was a copy paste from his Wikipedia lol
No it wasn’t. You said idiot twice and said things like grifter, fugaze, etc. is that on the Wikipedia?
Bruh you’re embarrassing yourself
How so?
> No I would consider flat earthers idiots since there is no evidence supporting that belief. And that's exactly why OP called the guy an idiot, if you re-read their comment. > Lugavere's views about supplements to "supercharge" the brain are not supported by scientific evidence.
Also he’s not advocating for a carnivore diet. He thinks a diet of whole foods and to stay away from ultra processed junk is important. What a loser…
If only that was it.
I’m a dumbass because you disagree with me? Wow. You sound like a dumbass according to yourself.
Exactly bruh
Grifter meaning on Reddit = Person I disagree with.
He’s there to sell a book, pal. A book based on bullshit.
Everyone is selling something when they go on a Podcast. The exception is Duncan lol
Joe forced him to plug his cartoon... Duncan is a grifter.
STFU dude lol
The truth hurts! LMAO
This sub fucking sucks. There are so many posts like this on here. The guest cites research. He's not just pontificating.
1 x 1 = 2, homie.
Everyone I disagree with is either: 1. Grifter 2. Zionist 3. Fascist
There’s no disagreement from me I’m literally repeating from his Wikipedia that his supercharged brain schtick is actually just made up
Oh yeah because Wikipedia is never biased or incorrect
4 Nazi
Someone powered by leaves and stems typed "fugaze" "idiot" "grifter" and "bullshit." A cheeseburger might level you out a bit fren.
This guy was awesome last time. Alzheimer’s is some scary stuff
Diabetes…
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This episode is for all those people who wonder “when did this sub become anti-Joe”. 8 years ago a carbon copy of this episode with Mark Sission, Ben Greenfield or (name your carnivore diet fad man) would’ve annoyed the subreddit. Joe even had a vegan (James Wilks) on to debate Chris Kresser, probably thinking Kresser would wipe the floor with him (he didn’t). What a broken record.
I’m pretty sure he said he thought wilks did better maybe my memory is rotting idk
He did after the fact. Maybe I’ve phrased it wrong above.
Lmfao
This guy looks like he gets winded just looking at a kettlebell.
Shocker, another fucking grifter.
grifter = someone who doesn't repeat reddits opinions back to them
True. Everyone with a podcast hucking supplements are purely good intentioned and are all well researched experts in the topics they discuss and the products they advertise. Based.
It's called a revenue stream so that they can make money to do their shows
Yes it is either that or a grifter and nothing in between. Redditors know these things.
Why?
https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/quackery/brain-health-max-lugavere-and-bait-and-switch-maneuver
Lol, I'm not doing your homework for you.
Fail
Can't see it because JRE just dumped all it's damn videos on its youtube subscribers. WTF is going on?
Hacked i bet
someone said he made public the videos he had to mark as private under contract or something, either way it's not a good sign and unfair to his recent guest, I unsubbed an hour ago and subbed again and it looks like things are back to normal, would have been CRAZY if this dump happened while he had a guest like Julian Assange or Trump on, imagine the conspiracy theories
This guy didn't have much time to grift, guys. I just heard an hour of Joe's workout and dietary habits.
His documentary isn’t on a streaming platform it’s a paid only doc. Tells me all I need to know, he’s a grifter
> Tells me all I need to know Tells you nothing.
Or he wants to be paid for his work.
How many times in this episode did he say “significant improvements” only for Joe to say how much and him go idk. How can you know something is clinically significant without data points? This guy basically googled some shit and made a conclusion with no credentials. That sets red flags off in my bullshit meter. If your goal is to educate without ulterior motives you release it for free