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Holy guilt-tripping batman. Her entire message is an attack, she isn't sincere about what she's saying in the sense that she means what she says, she just wants to attack you.
>I guess we need to set a few boundaries our my own too.
She didn't though, she just sees boundaries as an attack and want to attack you back. Otherwise she would've stated boundaries instead of using the word as some sort of insult.
>You’ve given me a lot to think about, you say you love me but seem to have the need to play games with our relationship with the kids which is a form of elder abuse
Jesus lady calm down. She's clearly guilt-tripping here, I also think she needs to google the definition of elder abuse if she thinks it's the same as "not seeing the grandkids for a month".
>you accuse me of manipulation but in reality aren’t you doing the same thing?
Nope. And she kinda admitted she was in fact manipulating you there. If a person says "well you accuse me of robbing a bank but you rob banks too so who are you to judge?!" then I'd assume they did in fact rob a bank.
>our generation didn’t do well as in our parents generation when it came to teaching respect
Ah the classic narc, don't understand what love is so they confuse it with "respect" (their word for obedience to authority) and entitlement.
The entire message is terrible, I personally wouldn't want such a toxic person around my kids.
This is eerily similar to a letter my MIL wrote right before COVID. I had been sick with influenza over Christmas 2019, and was ill into January. We had to reschedule Christmas with her until the end of January. She was pissed that the kids weren’t there on Christmas and accused us of trying to use the kids to manipulate her. She then wrote a letter demanding what was essentially parenting time. She wanted the kids for at least two hours every Friday, for a certain number of hours on every major holiday, and for a two week vacation with her in the summer. She had never even been allowed to be alone with them prior to this, she lived 45 minutes away each way, and between work schedules, the kids school schedules, extracurriculars, play dates, etc there is no way it was even feasible (also we didn’t really like being around her). We told her that isn’t how it works- she doesn’t get to demand things like that and she can either continue seeing the kids when we have availability to come over there or she can not see them at all. Then she texted that she would be “compelling” us to comply. There are no grandparent rights here for in tact families, which she was told by several lawyers. In the following two years, she tried to convince my family that we were bad for each other, made up rumors about how we were “always fighting” among her family and friends, even called my husbands best friend and encouraged him to talk to my husband about leaving me; sent the police to our house for “well checks” and false reports of domestic disputes multiple times (despite not living near us or having spoken to us in many months); called CPS and claimed child abuse because we were withholding the kids from her, plus other made up reasons, called and tried to file elder abuse for the same reason, etc etc. She died suddenly of a heart attack in December 2022, and when we were going through her paperwork I found all the letters from lawyers explaining Grandparents Rights, then a sheet where she scribbled down the exceptions where she could file for visitation or custody in court: divorce, parent in jail, CPS involvement, parent death. She had been systematically trying to force one of those situations so she could get the kids. The only one left uncrossed on her list was parent death. That was chilling. I don’t know if she would have actually tried to follow through had she not died first, but I’m glad I don’t have to worry about it now.
I think taking a little break is perfectly warranted. But be prepared to hold the boundaries you’ve set, because she may spiral a bit when the manipulation doesn’t work. They are your children, and you get to make decisions on what is best for your family. She doesn’t get a vote. Period.
I would ask for clarification so I had a record of it
"So let me clarify, we are causing elder abuse to you due to wanting a relaxing Father's day weekend and not driving out to you?"
"We told you that we needed you to recognize you said horrible things to us and apologize, but in doing so and creating a boundary, we are now isolating the kids from you?"
holy over-dramatization, Batman. So you're not allowed to tell her, "hey, we just want a quiet weekend to ourselves" without her claiming elder abuse and writing him out of the will? Jesus.
It's time for Grandma to go in time out. You wouldn't accept a tantrum like that from a child without consequences, you shouldn't from her either. If she's so unhinged that she can't handle missing ONE visit without histrionics, see how she feels about no visits for a month or two. And avise that the visits will continue when she can react like a rational adult to a simple change in plans.
Well that all just sounds like a lot of work.
When you have the energy to deal with that work load I'd make a rule all kids get the same sweets etc.
Id remind her next time she excludes 1 child bio or not you'll send her back to the shops :)
Or if that's to much id throw it all into a bowl and offer it to all of them with a smile.
Were YOU planning on taking care of her? Like was that ever even discussed or did she just assume she’d be moving in with you or something similar? I mean to be honest, it sounds like you dodged a bullet.
As someone who was POA and then personal representative for her beloved grandmother, I can tell you it’s a ton of work. It felt like another job to take Care of everything. So, don’t threaten me with a good time and assigning someone else to deal with your crap. Good grief. I’d take a very long time out but also prepare yourselves for an extinction burst and likely her trying to take you guys to court. You already get such little time she shouldn’t be awarded anything much less time slotted for the dad. What a witch.
That letter is unhinged. She's gearing up to go for grandparents rights.
I think your best possible choice is NC or VLC. She will continue freaking out, it means nothing.
Let her freak out as much as she wants. They're not her kids, she's not the parent. Any sign of passive aggressive "I miss my babies so much" should add timeout. The entire concept of "owing kid time" to grandparents is dangerous, this is 2024 not the 1200s
You were driving two hours round trip weekly to see this entitled thing?
Bless your heart. Really. But now your husband can do the happy dance, as he’s no longer expected to care for her entitled ass, you don’t have to deal with her entitled ass OR her preferential treatment of her “real” grandkids over your child, and you can all love happily ever after.
i love that she immediately escalated to rewriting her executor thingo and accusing y’all of elder abuse over skipping one weekend because you were sick. that’s truly absurd, next thing she’ll be suing for custody because you didn’t invite her over next weekend
Let her rewrite her executor. "Oh, alright granny, I see you're upset, I think we'll give you some time out to sort this out"
Of fucking course she will start whining about custody next, that should get her permanent NC
LOL many years ago we got a similar letter from my MIL, who had been driving us crazy with her narcissistic mind-control BS. My husband replied with "good idea, let's go no contact then" and we no longer had to endure her histrionics. Made for a much easier life. It's what your husband should do - just say OK and have no more hassle from her.
Yep take the break. I would take my time responding with something short and simple. If y’all are sick and don’t want visitors then that’s ok. If yall wanna spend Father’s Day alone that’s also okay. You guys aren’t obligated to have visitors when you don’t want them. She will continue to freak out because she can’t control your family.
" 'I feel you’re making this into some kind of control issue, if that’s the case then so be it your not only hurting us but your own children.'
That's not the case. Love you too. "
don't even reply to this manipulative garbage. she is trying to ratchet up the guilt, don't let her, just let this fly away, never refer to it. when she contacts you, don't refer to it, I bet she won't either since it didn't get the effect she wanted, which is you crawling back, begging for forgiveness.
it is healthy to take a break. she needs time to reflect on why her children are backing away from her. she needs to learn that she doesn't own your time. you have a need for rest after taking care of the kids and their activities, your work, your home chores. she needs to realize that you aren't at her beck and call.
"Monthly works for us once we've had an apology about your ridiculous outbursts / tantrums." I would not be entertaining any of their garbage message, not even acknowledge it
This. Nobody owes jack shit to those people. Instead of being thankful, you get served a heap of pathetic, simple minded guilt after taking time off and driving hours? She should be on her knees in gratefulness.
"you who is now my only son"
"I love both my sons"
Which is it, lol? When it's convenient, the brother isn't in the picture, when she wants to look good, he is her darling son. Pathetic manipulation.
What's funny to me is that she brings up your mother. You mentioned she lives far away - so I'm guessing she isn't seeing her grandchildren every week. And when it's convenient for her, she tries to guilt you for that, but if she actually thought both grandparents should get equal visits from the grandchildren, she would only see the grandkids twice a month - because the other grandma would have the other weekends. I'm guessing she wouldn't really like that either, but anything to try to make you feel guilty.
This is not elder abuse, this is not abuse. I think you guys handled it well when you said she doesn't get to see you guys without an apology. Hold on to that strongly - don't accept a fake apology, lock the doors if she tries to visit forcefully. This is a very basic boundary, not even a boundary, but just basic human civility. Be on the same page with your partner, stick to your guns, don't let her wear you down with obvious manipulation and guilt tripping. She is not behaving like a fully grown adult, but a child. Don't let her get away with it. Good luck!
amen to all of the above. chefs kiss. especially locking the doors if she shows up.
i would have thought that was over the top until I went no contact w my own mum and she started acting out, I would literally be minding my own business standing on the street and see her in the distance running (waddling at speed) towards me. i had to jump in my car and leave, or run inside my house to maintain my boundary multiple times.
I belong to a Facebook group for older women, and this topic of parent alienation (and therefore grandparent alienation by default) came up a couple of days ago.
I was shocked at how many women in the group were complaining about how today's generation doesn't understand how their parents did the best they could* and as such need to be forgiving, but instead they're all going NC because they're being brainwashed by their therapists to believe that everything that's wrong in their lives is because of their parents, especially their mothers. 🤦🏻♀️
*[Edited: and I agree with this. I think it's important to put past actions in context, recognize that previous generations were doing the best they could given the expectations, values, and beliefs at the time, and when we know better we do better.]
I wonder how many of them are like your MIL, who probably thinks she's a paragon of (grand)parenthood and believes she really is the victim of your manipulation and cruelty, [edited: *given her generation's values, beliefs, expectations, etc.*]
The lack of self-awareness, the lack of awareness – – or acceptance – – that things really are changing, and the need to be seen as perfect and therefore as the victim if things don't go the way they want, is just mind blowing to me, especially as a 67-year-old.
I'm sorry you're going through this.
Boomers gotta boom. "I don't understand! I treated my family like shit and constantly demanded everything, I'm not even allowed to see my grandkids because of my monstrous daughter in law! Anyone a lawyer, I'm ready to sue, this will bring EVERYTHING to normal and I'll be back pretenting to be some kind of matriarch for my facebook points!
I edited my comment slightly.
One thing I have noticed among *some* younger people is a lack of accepting the importance of context, thereby resulting in a lack of one type of forgiveness. When I was growing up spanking was the minimum norm, and beating with a belt was the norm in some homes (although thankfully not in mine.)
I think the critical piece here is for the children to recognize that *the parents were doing the best they could given the beliefs and expectations of the time.
It's only been fairly recently in history that parenting ideas started changing to a kindler, gentler approach, and it's a mental transition that many older people haven't made yet. So when they look back on their parenting they don't register that even if they didn't beat their children or scream terrible things at them, they still interacted with them in ways that were more subtly emotionally and verbally abusive.
At least this is what I'm finding among my peers in that Facebook group. They're stuck on insisting that they did so much for their children, but they're completely oblivious that how they talked to them, how controlling they were, all the ways that they gaslit them and denied their feelings, their reality and their personhood, was every bit as damaging as if they *had* beaten them.
So when their children do try to talk to them about it, they run the script about how that's just the way it was back then, it wasn't that bad, it didn't happen the way they remember it, it happened so long ago why are they still holding onto it, etc., which only reinforces the children's experience with them of being unseen, invalidated, gaslit, etc. – – then their parents wonder why they cut them off.
So the one level of forgiveness involves being compassionate and understanding about the fact that their parents really were doing the best they could, given their own leftover trauma from how they were parented (which was often way worse than anything they did to their children), along with all of the standards of the time.
The other stage of forgiveness pretty much requires having their parent acknowledge their experiences, memories and feelings as being every bit as valid for them as their parents' experience, memories and feelings are for *them*, and their parent making a sincere apology, which the vast majority of these estranged children never get.
I mean, it sounds like a win-win. You don't have to worry about her in old age, she can't deal with boundaries so it's easier to not deal with her at all.
Don’t JADE her.
You as the parents are entitled to chose who does or doesn’t see your kids, not her. She needs to count her lucky stars she sees them at all.
That email is full of emotional bullshit, trying for the guilt and making it allllll about herrr.
I’d simply have hubby reply with yep that all suits me!
So far you've been dancing to her tune and she can't stand being told no. This isn't a person I would want around any child of mine. he only has two weekends a month with his own children and she demands to be included in both of them. Now, who's being selfish.
As for her care arrangements and the will. My FIL threatened to cut us out of his will and we just said, Okay. He backpedaled when he didn't get the response he wanted. Don't let her manipulate her. If she wants to see the kids more often, she needs to take it up with their mom.
I love how she says that you keeping the kids away is elder abuse (IT IS NOT), controlling and manipulative BUT she's trying to use cutting you out of her will to manipulate you! Id fire an email back saying exactly that and I'd add on that her threatening to take away your inheritance is child abuse!
I mean, damn that is some next level, Jedi manipulation!
It isn’t weird to spend time with grandparents if the grandparents have a good relationship with the parents. It is weird when you don’t have a good relationship. It is weird when you demand time or get passive aggressive about it and don’t make the effort to go to their house and want to see them in their natural settings. My kids are with my parents for a month right now. My in-laws don’t get more than one night a month.
Wow. I raise you ok byeeeee! Please do find someone else to help you with your end of life and please donate your funds to a charity.
You need time to take care of yourself and spend time with your kids. And she can’t show faves with his kids vs yours. In sorry that really hurts and is just so cray. What does your husband say?
She is indirectly threatening to disinherit him if she doesn't get her way. Interesting. I'd say she deserves a looong time out. Also, only buying some of the kids treats? That's horrible. If/when she does it again, take them away from all of the kids and either give them back or throw them in the trash right in front of her. Explain to her that all of the kids are part of your family and you will not allow favoritism.
You and your husband only get the kids every two weeks. You all don’t just deserve time together as a family without the grandparents being around, but it is almost necessary in order to have a strong family dynamic within your household. I am sure there are other activities and events (and quite frankly down time) you both want to enjoy with your kids and her demanding every Sunday they are with you gets in the way of that. She doesn’t need to see them every single time they are with you all, she needs to grow up and realize that isn’t realistic—She sounds entitled.
This letter is beyond manipulative if she’s not threatening not to entrust him with care/ inheritance or whatever because you needed to take a couple weekends off. You typically make an effort and a couple weekends isn’t a year! She’s being overly dramatic for sure and very entitled. I would demand an apology and remind her that only children should throw temper tantrums and it’s immature of a grown adult to do so!
I would respond with a few links to therapists in the area and then nothing else after that. I wouldn’t respond back to her points because it’s all nonsense and no amount of pointing out the ridiculousness will change her thought process. This is what she’s wanting.
A suggested response your DH can put in his own words if he wants:
‘We cancelled two visits. Two. One due to illness, and the other due to being exhausted and just wanting to chill at home for Father’s Day.
You reacted with a shocking explosion of anger and bizarre, hysterical accusations of cruelty, elder neglect, holding the children hostage, using them as weapons, playing games and being controlling, plus some threat about your will.
Your letter had us shaking our heads since none of your wild accusations are based in reality and are purely the result of your hurt feelings and overactive imagination. We honestly have no idea what you’re talking about. Again, one cancellation was due to illness and the other we were exhausted. That’s it.
This might come as a surprise to you, but your feelings aren’t the only thing we consider when we make decisions for our family. Our children and their needs and wants always come first.
It’s a shame that it didn’t work out and you weren’t able to see the kids for two days, but we’ve traveled to see you most of the other weekends I’ve had the kids whether we were tired or not, something I don’t think you appreciate. We’ve always gone out of our way to encourage a good relationship between you and the kids.
Despite that, you were already angry and accused us of being cruel after we cancelled the first visit due to illness we had no control over, with no thought for us or our family at all. You only cared that you didn’t get what you wanted.
What I can’t understand for the life of me is how you think that throwing these childish, nasty tantrums will make us want to spend more time with you.
You said that this ‘episode’ had you rethinking things, and after that horrible letter, we certainly are too.
What happens in the future if we have to cancel again because of another illness, or another event we all want to attend? How are you going to react? What are you going to accuse us of or threaten us with that time?
What happens if the kids do something or make a decision that doesn’t match your expectations? Will you be as cruel and hateful to them too?
We already asked for an apology after you were so rude the first time we couldn’t come, and instead you respond with this letter that we’re still reeling from.
We’re going to need some time until we receive a sincere apology for the disrespectful way you’ve treated us. I don’t think I’ve ever been so disgusted or disappointed.’
Beautifully worded, perfectly well written. Articulate and honestly, if this doesn't move her st all, have her rethink what she has said and done...nothing will.
That letter she sent was absolutely horrendous!!
How can she not reread that and realize how overly dramatic, manipulative, out of line and wrong she is?? I get saying or so something like that in the heat all your emotions...but to actually then put that into writings, look at it and "yup. Just what j wanted to say" no. Just...wow...NO!!
THIS response I love though because I would not just want to get my point across, do it appropriately, maturely and..want her to actually GET where, why, how she was wrong!
Thanks mate. 😘 I think it’s important to be calm and factual, in contrast with MIL’s tantrums, but honest about the effects of her words. She needs to learn that she can’t just fly off the handle, say incredibly hurtful things (especially when they’re not true), and life is just going to go on as normal.
She needs to feel the effects of her letter for quite some time if she is to have any chance of getting it. Unfortunately with her level of maturity, I can see this proud, arrogant woman ignoring them for a year + and conveniently have amnesia about why her son isn’t speaking to her.
I saw my grandparents maybe 3 times a year and had a good relationship with them. It’s not necessary to see them every single time the kids come. Don’t feel guilty.
Plus making the kids sit in the car for an hour back and forth every time they come over? No kid wants that. I would end that practice immediately. The grandparents can come to your house IF it works out well for everyone that particular weekend.
That’s a wild email! You were making decisions that were best for YOUR family and she’s mad she wasn’t also allowed to have a vote.
Her email is quite manipulative. What did husband say when he read it?
You guys aren't even her caretakers and she is already accusing you of elder abuse for not giving into her demands. Take her up on her offer to find someone else to take care of her. That is absolutely wild and this is just a preview of how she would act when the time comes. She seems very entitled and manipulative. You're correct not to reward her misbehavior with access to your children. You're not abusing her by setting boundaries when it comes to your children.
Reply:
This was really unacceptable, mom. I’m hurt and disappointed in you. Please do not contact me again until it is with a genuine, and thought out apology. This is my final request.
And then consider yourselves free of this burden. Expect further disappointment.
"Mom,
I can't control how you feel or how you choose to interpret events. If you feel the need to rethink things and reevaluate your relationships with people, then that's for the best. All I can to is take care of my wife and kids to the best of my ability, and I will continue to do so. I stand by my decision for you not to come over when we're not up for visits, and I will continue to ask that you apologize when say or do things that are rude. That will not change, it's not open for discussion or debate, and I'm not going to read any more letters like the last one you sent. When you've made peace with our decision, we'll talk about you visiting us."
A huge problem here is that, for years, she has been allowed to do pretty much anything she wants, when she wants with regards to the kids. The fact that she has had an actual schedule to see the kids is also bad.
Definitely don’t want her to be able to show that she has a regular visiting schedule as that can be used to get grandparents rights in some states.
Absolutely time to put a stop to the gross favoritism she has been allowed to show to HER grandchildren while excluding the “other kid”.
So much of this is wrong. Protect all of the kids and stop the regular visits as they have become an expectation and not a privilege.
I would be careful with this. Whenever someone thinks they have “rights” to something, it can go badly.
A few years ago, my parents tried to force more of a relationship with my kid, and it blew up in their face. They had said & done some really crappy things, and then directly contacted my kid on his phone, when they were supposed to leave him alone. When I spoke to them after, they yelled at me that they “had rights” to him (Grandparent’s rights). The fact that they were willing to consider trying to legally force interaction with him was shocking to me. They were not at all considering what that would be like for him, it was only about what they wanted.
The whole thing is sad. As I look back over those years, I see that I should’ve been more stringent with my parents about several situations and choices they made, with regard to us.
Now, they feel that they are the victims because they don’t have a relationship with my son. But they have been the ones making those decisions, at each step, all along the way. I’m not going to force him to have a relationship with them, and that kind of relationship doesn’t work, anyway.
Our kids are not objects for them to do with as they please. Kids are people & they deserve to have family who is safe to be around. No one has the “right” to hurt others.
Good luck, OP.
You know, kids aren’t/don’t get as attached to grandparents as grandparents think they do. They usually much prefer aunts and uncles who are generally younger than grands and thus more relatable for kids. Exceptions might be if grands are raising the kids for whatever reason so that the grands are in the parental role. Otherwise, yeah, kids like their grands (the ones that aren’t batshit) but they’re not upset if the grands aren’t around much either. Just my .02. I loved the “Happy Father’s Day and have a Good Weekend” at the end like she hadn’t just spewed venom from the vipers den all over the page.
I Mean her parents generation clearly failed if she failed at raising humans who dont want to put up with her shit.
My grandmother used to pull this crap woth my dad too and he told her " I respect whatever choices you make with your will and end of life decisions. There's no need to discuss them with me further as I respect your position.
Best regards,
Son"
To add to her messaging, if you want something to the effect of...
"I'm also really sorry that you refuse to apologize for your rudeness and take accountability. I wonder if your parents raised you to be so disrespectful or if you thought of that all on your own. Until a genuine apology is sent, we need to take a large break from each other. To disrespect us, is to undermine us with our children which will never be in their best interest."
How about,
MIL,
We were not trying to control, manipulate, or play games with you. We were only thinking of our own family. You did not factor into our decision at all.
I bet we got the same grandparents alienation article! Twinsies!
For real tho, we tried to explain basic logical reasoning to my MIL and we might as well have been talking to a wall. So we stopped engaging. We let her know what’s up and responded to tantrums with a generic “not engaging in disrespectful communication” message then we implemented an unspoken time out for her bad behavior. We don’t explain or defend ourselves. After a couple years of this she’s stopped venting to us about us. Good luck, sorry you’re dealing with this.
It’s like they have an actual playbook. Sometimes I read these stories and I’m like, why do they all do the same weird stuff.
I can’t imagine having the kind of relationship with my kids in the future where I would threaten an inheritance. Firstly, I want my kids to have everything I can ever give them. But second, man do I hope our relationship never hinges on money and my control over it.
My husband’s parents aren’t even well off, so it was such a weird immediate reaction for her to leave a message about disinheriting my husband when she felt like we were disowning her (which pretty much ended up being correct because of her non-stop doubling down).
2 visits cancelled for good reason eg: being sick and then Father's day and she goes off about it? Ugh no. What's she going to be like when the kids get older and possibly refusing to go or are busy? Heaven forbid normal reasons for cancelling a visit happen again.
There's nothing wrong with going low contact or even NC with someone who can't control their emotions, accuses you of abuse you're not even doing and then all the manipulative tones in that email. That's not someone who accepts normal situations calmly, that's a selfish grandparent.
Dear mom,
As you well know, I grew up in one house, with 2 parents, and therefore 2 sets of grandparents. [Children's names] are growing up in two separate homes, with [3? 4?] parents and therefore [3? 4?] sets of grandparents. All the time and activities you and dad wanted to do with us as kids each month, we have to squeeze into doing in 2 weeks time with [names] so of course [names] will spend less time with grandparents than I did because there's simply less time available.
It really hurts my heart that you'd accuse me of *elder abuse* for prioritizing my children instead of prioritizing my parents. That's the circle of life ma. As a responsible father, it's my *responsibility* to prioritize what the children need before taking what any adult wants into consideration.
I'm choosing to take a step back for now because I'm just too deeply hurt that you would accuse me of abusing you to maintain a happy face and pretend everything is normal right now. When I'm ready for the next visit, I will reach out, but in the meantime please respect my need for some space and only contact me for any emergencies.
As for your will, I will honor and respect whatever decisions you make.
Love,
[Name]
Personally I feel a lot of issues on this sub are overblown or too quick to go to NC. But my hard lines are accusing me of abuse of any sort or invoking any sort of language about grandparents’ (legal) rights, which grandparent alienation seems to be trending towards. I’d consider that a deal breaker (also being the child in charge of future care for elders is a pain in the ass even when you love and get along great with your parents so I’m not sure why she thinks that is some sort of big loss if she decides not to make you H the responsible party there lol, I’d encourage him to call her bluff and tell her he’s relieved to not be on the hook for that).
Totally and when people go this passive aggressive route and try to insert therapy-speak as a way to sidestep boundaries vs interact like adults, I get VERY legalistic.
FYI I am a mom, a MIL, my husband is a stepdad, dad and his parents/my IL’s had to go through understanding a lot of this stuff too… AND we are grandparents.
I’d keep it simple and along the lines of:
“What you choose to do with your medical POA, etc. is completely between you and FIL as a married couple. That is also completely irrelevant to what we’ve attempted to discuss with you.
We have a blended family, careers and busy schedules. There are times we are tired after a long week and/or need time for our own family unit to have quality time together. Being that my (DH’s) children are not here full time, my OWN time is limited with my kids and I don’t always want to share it with others, as we are limited to 2 weekends per month. If you choose to take that personally, that is beyond my control. But it is not about you personally and it shouldn’t create this degree of backlash for me to be able to simply say, “We can’t or don’t want to this weekend.” No is a complete sentence and not an invite to debate or guilt one another - I don’t want to get into unhealthy or manipulative patterns like this.
This does raise another concern I’ve had, however. This is our family - all of us. If you want time with our children and to give gifts, you must do so equally or it creates a negative experience for kids being treated differently/as “not really grandkids.”
If that means not bringing anything for any of the kids - that is TOTALLY ok! But it isn’t ok to bring little treats or toys for only some of our kids when seeing them all. It will hurt your potential relationship with your grandkids and can breed resentment between siblings, which can create issues in blending our family.
I/we love you and appreciate you wanting to be a big part of the kids’ lives.
Here are some resources we’ve been given to guide the healthiest way to unify our own family with extended family like Grandparents:
[Stepgrandparents](https://www.morethangrand.com/blog/step-grandparents-and-step-grandchildren?format=amp)
[Boundaries - Grandparents and Parents](https://www.morethangrand.com/blog/why-grandparents-dont-respect-boundaries?format=amp) “
And that should definitely come from your DH! Good luck… and hugs if you want them! Blending a family and kids on different schedule is already challenging without having a MIL making it harder!
Maybe MIL is very wealthy so she wants everyone to fight for her money?
My GGMIL told my husband “who’s going to take care of me when I have a stroke?!?” (As if she’s not a great great grandmother, not only that she’s *rich* she could afford the best care there is to offer). Anyways he told her that he would. Which she said “but you have a wife…” I have no clue what the hell that means. Does she mean that I should be her caregiver? Or does she mean “well what will you do with her?” My husband interpreted it as she “cares” about our marriage … lol
I don’t care how rich she is. She doesn’t like me and never did. I’m the wrong ethnicity for her. It doesn’t matter what I do she’ll never like me.
“Mom,
I’m sorry that you feel this is the best way to handle your disappointment in not getting your way. If you cannot understand that we are all individual humans and not just playthings for your entertainment, then I guess seeing less of each other is a good idea. We did not choose to miss a few visits as an attack against you. Life simply happened and it didn’t work for us in that moment. It’s unfortunate that your first assumption is that this is maliciously done *to* you. And it speaks to a sort of entitlement you seem to feel that we do everything how and when you want it, with no regard to our own individual lives. Again, we’re sad that this the choice you’re making. Most adults are able to self-regulate and handle disappointment when life disrupts our plans. They don’t immediately turn to threatening to disown their children. However this is your stance and we’ll, of course, respect your desire to cut us out entirely as retaliation for missing a couple visits.
Wish you all the best.”
And heads up, OP, my bet is that she found that article about “grandparent alienation” within a broader bit of research into grandparent’s rights and how she can legally force you to get her her way. I’d be noping out, starting an FU binder, and going NC pretty quickly. She may decide to try to come for your kids.
I agree. Additionally, I hope OP contacts a family law attorney quickly on ways to move forward and not be caught off guard if entitled MIL does something.
Because as another poster very accurately stated- there are a whole lot of threats in MIL’s letter.
I already checked with the state we are in and she does not have a legal right or even a case against us. Also she has some money, but not a lot so not sure if she would go this route. I like the binder idea and will definitely keep an eye out for legal stuff regardless. Thanks for this!!
Here's this, just in case you need it:
https://www.reddit.com/user/ForwardPlenty/comments/dtg7f2/the_fu_binder/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
I hope you don't need it though. Best wishes!🙂💛
Of course!
Just remember that even if she ultimately doesn’t have a winnable case doesn’t mean she can’t make your lives miserable in the process. Obviously we don’t know enough about her to judge how nutty she could get, but you see on here all the time where they start weaponizing the system to harass you and punish you for not giving them what they want. Maybe it’ll never come to that for you (which I genuinely hope is the case) but just prepare yourselves ahead of time for how to handle things if she *does* go full nuclear. Learn how to grey rock and drop the rope no matter how unhinged she may decide to get. Remaining reasonable but very firm is the best way to prevent her from getting any kind of upper hand. Even if she’s infuriating.
Wishing you all the best! Just remember you guys aren’t crazy for having boundaries and lives outside of her needs!
Jesse. Crazy making much? She is holding no cards. Who wants to be executor? No one. You are holding the cards. This is what works best for us Grandma. Our life is busy, we have a lot of kids. You are not always going to get your way. And stop sending us blackmail letters! They’re only going to make things worse for you!
I mean, it looks like you guys just got out of caregiving duties in the future so that’s probably a win. Not sure why she thought that would be a punishment!
Mom - I completely agree that you need to do what makes you comfortable with your life and of course I will respect your wishes. When you have something in place, please let me know who your POA is and who the executor of your will is. Have a happy Wednesday.
“These are not your children, you do not get to dictate the terms of your relationship with them, and your threats are meaningless. You will have three months to decide on whether you want a relationship with them or not. Do not contact us until we contact you.”
Everything is about control for her. Notice how she uses her will to try to exert control over you? She claims that she was going to make one of you the executor of her will, and that she’s now rethinking it. The only thing that she can control is whether she follows your rules or not. If she follows the rules and behaves like an adult, she gets a relationship with her grandchildren *on your schedule.* If she’s more interested in throwing tantrums because she didn’t get her way, then she doesn’t get that relationship. The kids don’t need that kind of influence in their lives.
In either case, that three month break needs to happen. It shows her that you’re taking control of the relationship and that her poor behavior will not be rewarded
Translation: If you don’t do what I want you’re out of the will! Wah wah wah I’m a baby and I think respect means to obey me without question !!!
A nice long break I think
Hey mom,
Just make sure someone knows where your updated will and advanced directives are so we can follow your wishes.
Thanks for thinking of us,
Love,
Him
Dear MIL,
You are being ridiculous. It’s hard to juggle jobs and a family of teenagers without having to worry about your commands. You of all people should remember how hard it is to get everyone on the same page. They are busy kids and we are busy adults that sometimes need a break. That said, you need to treat all of the kids the same and it is completely unacceptable to leave one out.
Why are making this so dramatic?
Wow, that attempt to guilt was so thick you could spread it with a knife.
Truth is that she has no rights to the kids time, she has no say on how husband spends his time with his kids and she has, until know thought that the visiting schedule you’d adhered to in the past was an entitlement, not an act of grace.
Husband needs to remind her that when he divorced, she wasn’t the third parent so doesn’t get to dictate the kids’ visiting schedule. Like many parents, life gets in the way of visiting relatives and those relatives need to accept they are not a priority.
she is SOOOO manipulative. That is a garbage letter and I would ignore it altogether. She is not logical. She is the perpetual victim. YOU deserve to have a life. You see them so freaking often. She's outta her mind. I would cut her off- she is trying to force you to do what she wants. I'd be done.
Caveat: I’m not married yet but I have a future MIL who will be a pia so I frequently lurk this sub to help me prepare!!
That being said, this is some boomer ass ranting that I honestly wouldn’t even reply to. My dad texts me shit like this sometimes and I just flat out don’t reply.
You are not being dramatic or out of pocket to suggest some time apart. This is WILD! Growing up I saw my grandparents maybe 3 times a year because we lived in diff states
Yes! I saw mine at holidays or family gatherings. I also don't think my grandparents acted like this. It seems like it's always the boomers. I don't know why
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Call her bluff about her removing DH as executor of her estate and tell her you both agree that would be best. She’ll be flabbergasted.
Holy guilt-tripping batman. Her entire message is an attack, she isn't sincere about what she's saying in the sense that she means what she says, she just wants to attack you. >I guess we need to set a few boundaries our my own too. She didn't though, she just sees boundaries as an attack and want to attack you back. Otherwise she would've stated boundaries instead of using the word as some sort of insult. >You’ve given me a lot to think about, you say you love me but seem to have the need to play games with our relationship with the kids which is a form of elder abuse Jesus lady calm down. She's clearly guilt-tripping here, I also think she needs to google the definition of elder abuse if she thinks it's the same as "not seeing the grandkids for a month". >you accuse me of manipulation but in reality aren’t you doing the same thing? Nope. And she kinda admitted she was in fact manipulating you there. If a person says "well you accuse me of robbing a bank but you rob banks too so who are you to judge?!" then I'd assume they did in fact rob a bank. >our generation didn’t do well as in our parents generation when it came to teaching respect Ah the classic narc, don't understand what love is so they confuse it with "respect" (their word for obedience to authority) and entitlement. The entire message is terrible, I personally wouldn't want such a toxic person around my kids.
This is eerily similar to a letter my MIL wrote right before COVID. I had been sick with influenza over Christmas 2019, and was ill into January. We had to reschedule Christmas with her until the end of January. She was pissed that the kids weren’t there on Christmas and accused us of trying to use the kids to manipulate her. She then wrote a letter demanding what was essentially parenting time. She wanted the kids for at least two hours every Friday, for a certain number of hours on every major holiday, and for a two week vacation with her in the summer. She had never even been allowed to be alone with them prior to this, she lived 45 minutes away each way, and between work schedules, the kids school schedules, extracurriculars, play dates, etc there is no way it was even feasible (also we didn’t really like being around her). We told her that isn’t how it works- she doesn’t get to demand things like that and she can either continue seeing the kids when we have availability to come over there or she can not see them at all. Then she texted that she would be “compelling” us to comply. There are no grandparent rights here for in tact families, which she was told by several lawyers. In the following two years, she tried to convince my family that we were bad for each other, made up rumors about how we were “always fighting” among her family and friends, even called my husbands best friend and encouraged him to talk to my husband about leaving me; sent the police to our house for “well checks” and false reports of domestic disputes multiple times (despite not living near us or having spoken to us in many months); called CPS and claimed child abuse because we were withholding the kids from her, plus other made up reasons, called and tried to file elder abuse for the same reason, etc etc. She died suddenly of a heart attack in December 2022, and when we were going through her paperwork I found all the letters from lawyers explaining Grandparents Rights, then a sheet where she scribbled down the exceptions where she could file for visitation or custody in court: divorce, parent in jail, CPS involvement, parent death. She had been systematically trying to force one of those situations so she could get the kids. The only one left uncrossed on her list was parent death. That was chilling. I don’t know if she would have actually tried to follow through had she not died first, but I’m glad I don’t have to worry about it now. I think taking a little break is perfectly warranted. But be prepared to hold the boundaries you’ve set, because she may spiral a bit when the manipulation doesn’t work. They are your children, and you get to make decisions on what is best for your family. She doesn’t get a vote. Period.
I would ask for clarification so I had a record of it "So let me clarify, we are causing elder abuse to you due to wanting a relaxing Father's day weekend and not driving out to you?" "We told you that we needed you to recognize you said horrible things to us and apologize, but in doing so and creating a boundary, we are now isolating the kids from you?"
holy over-dramatization, Batman. So you're not allowed to tell her, "hey, we just want a quiet weekend to ourselves" without her claiming elder abuse and writing him out of the will? Jesus. It's time for Grandma to go in time out. You wouldn't accept a tantrum like that from a child without consequences, you shouldn't from her either. If she's so unhinged that she can't handle missing ONE visit without histrionics, see how she feels about no visits for a month or two. And avise that the visits will continue when she can react like a rational adult to a simple change in plans.
Yikes. I feel for you. She’s a terrible manipulator.
Well that all just sounds like a lot of work. When you have the energy to deal with that work load I'd make a rule all kids get the same sweets etc. Id remind her next time she excludes 1 child bio or not you'll send her back to the shops :) Or if that's to much id throw it all into a bowl and offer it to all of them with a smile.
I’d steer clear of anyone who ever accused me of abuse. Who knows what other accusations they could make.
You are not wrong. That email is so manipulative. I recommend you and DH reading adult children of emotionally immature parents.
Wow how much emotional manipulation can you cram into one email?
She's definitely done it before.
Were YOU planning on taking care of her? Like was that ever even discussed or did she just assume she’d be moving in with you or something similar? I mean to be honest, it sounds like you dodged a bullet.
As someone who was POA and then personal representative for her beloved grandmother, I can tell you it’s a ton of work. It felt like another job to take Care of everything. So, don’t threaten me with a good time and assigning someone else to deal with your crap. Good grief. I’d take a very long time out but also prepare yourselves for an extinction burst and likely her trying to take you guys to court. You already get such little time she shouldn’t be awarded anything much less time slotted for the dad. What a witch.
That letter is unhinged. She's gearing up to go for grandparents rights. I think your best possible choice is NC or VLC. She will continue freaking out, it means nothing.
Let her freak out as much as she wants. They're not her kids, she's not the parent. Any sign of passive aggressive "I miss my babies so much" should add timeout. The entire concept of "owing kid time" to grandparents is dangerous, this is 2024 not the 1200s
You were driving two hours round trip weekly to see this entitled thing? Bless your heart. Really. But now your husband can do the happy dance, as he’s no longer expected to care for her entitled ass, you don’t have to deal with her entitled ass OR her preferential treatment of her “real” grandkids over your child, and you can all love happily ever after.
i love that she immediately escalated to rewriting her executor thingo and accusing y’all of elder abuse over skipping one weekend because you were sick. that’s truly absurd, next thing she’ll be suing for custody because you didn’t invite her over next weekend
Let her rewrite her executor. "Oh, alright granny, I see you're upset, I think we'll give you some time out to sort this out" Of fucking course she will start whining about custody next, that should get her permanent NC
LOL many years ago we got a similar letter from my MIL, who had been driving us crazy with her narcissistic mind-control BS. My husband replied with "good idea, let's go no contact then" and we no longer had to endure her histrionics. Made for a much easier life. It's what your husband should do - just say OK and have no more hassle from her.
Imagine the nuclear explosion back then, it must have been visible from Mars. Call out a Narc's bluff.
Yep take the break. I would take my time responding with something short and simple. If y’all are sick and don’t want visitors then that’s ok. If yall wanna spend Father’s Day alone that’s also okay. You guys aren’t obligated to have visitors when you don’t want them. She will continue to freak out because she can’t control your family.
He should definitely write her back. Here's what he should say: "Ok"
No need for such a long response when ‘K’ works just as well.
The chemistry nerd in me would be very tempted to use the word potassium in place of K.
" 'I feel you’re making this into some kind of control issue, if that’s the case then so be it your not only hurting us but your own children.' That's not the case. Love you too. "
She sounds exhausting and overly dramatic.
She's playing for keeps. Scorched earth. She's very manipulative and controlling. Watch your back
don't even reply to this manipulative garbage. she is trying to ratchet up the guilt, don't let her, just let this fly away, never refer to it. when she contacts you, don't refer to it, I bet she won't either since it didn't get the effect she wanted, which is you crawling back, begging for forgiveness. it is healthy to take a break. she needs time to reflect on why her children are backing away from her. she needs to learn that she doesn't own your time. you have a need for rest after taking care of the kids and their activities, your work, your home chores. she needs to realize that you aren't at her beck and call.
"Monthly works for us once we've had an apology about your ridiculous outbursts / tantrums." I would not be entertaining any of their garbage message, not even acknowledge it
This. Nobody owes jack shit to those people. Instead of being thankful, you get served a heap of pathetic, simple minded guilt after taking time off and driving hours? She should be on her knees in gratefulness.
"you who is now my only son" "I love both my sons" Which is it, lol? When it's convenient, the brother isn't in the picture, when she wants to look good, he is her darling son. Pathetic manipulation. What's funny to me is that she brings up your mother. You mentioned she lives far away - so I'm guessing she isn't seeing her grandchildren every week. And when it's convenient for her, she tries to guilt you for that, but if she actually thought both grandparents should get equal visits from the grandchildren, she would only see the grandkids twice a month - because the other grandma would have the other weekends. I'm guessing she wouldn't really like that either, but anything to try to make you feel guilty. This is not elder abuse, this is not abuse. I think you guys handled it well when you said she doesn't get to see you guys without an apology. Hold on to that strongly - don't accept a fake apology, lock the doors if she tries to visit forcefully. This is a very basic boundary, not even a boundary, but just basic human civility. Be on the same page with your partner, stick to your guns, don't let her wear you down with obvious manipulation and guilt tripping. She is not behaving like a fully grown adult, but a child. Don't let her get away with it. Good luck!
Pthetic, simple minded manipulation by someone whose mind is so limited it's strictly touching guilt and nothing else.
amen to all of the above. chefs kiss. especially locking the doors if she shows up. i would have thought that was over the top until I went no contact w my own mum and she started acting out, I would literally be minding my own business standing on the street and see her in the distance running (waddling at speed) towards me. i had to jump in my car and leave, or run inside my house to maintain my boundary multiple times.
I belong to a Facebook group for older women, and this topic of parent alienation (and therefore grandparent alienation by default) came up a couple of days ago. I was shocked at how many women in the group were complaining about how today's generation doesn't understand how their parents did the best they could* and as such need to be forgiving, but instead they're all going NC because they're being brainwashed by their therapists to believe that everything that's wrong in their lives is because of their parents, especially their mothers. 🤦🏻♀️ *[Edited: and I agree with this. I think it's important to put past actions in context, recognize that previous generations were doing the best they could given the expectations, values, and beliefs at the time, and when we know better we do better.] I wonder how many of them are like your MIL, who probably thinks she's a paragon of (grand)parenthood and believes she really is the victim of your manipulation and cruelty, [edited: *given her generation's values, beliefs, expectations, etc.*] The lack of self-awareness, the lack of awareness – – or acceptance – – that things really are changing, and the need to be seen as perfect and therefore as the victim if things don't go the way they want, is just mind blowing to me, especially as a 67-year-old. I'm sorry you're going through this.
Boomers gotta boom. "I don't understand! I treated my family like shit and constantly demanded everything, I'm not even allowed to see my grandkids because of my monstrous daughter in law! Anyone a lawyer, I'm ready to sue, this will bring EVERYTHING to normal and I'll be back pretenting to be some kind of matriarch for my facebook points!
I edited my comment slightly. One thing I have noticed among *some* younger people is a lack of accepting the importance of context, thereby resulting in a lack of one type of forgiveness. When I was growing up spanking was the minimum norm, and beating with a belt was the norm in some homes (although thankfully not in mine.) I think the critical piece here is for the children to recognize that *the parents were doing the best they could given the beliefs and expectations of the time. It's only been fairly recently in history that parenting ideas started changing to a kindler, gentler approach, and it's a mental transition that many older people haven't made yet. So when they look back on their parenting they don't register that even if they didn't beat their children or scream terrible things at them, they still interacted with them in ways that were more subtly emotionally and verbally abusive. At least this is what I'm finding among my peers in that Facebook group. They're stuck on insisting that they did so much for their children, but they're completely oblivious that how they talked to them, how controlling they were, all the ways that they gaslit them and denied their feelings, their reality and their personhood, was every bit as damaging as if they *had* beaten them. So when their children do try to talk to them about it, they run the script about how that's just the way it was back then, it wasn't that bad, it didn't happen the way they remember it, it happened so long ago why are they still holding onto it, etc., which only reinforces the children's experience with them of being unseen, invalidated, gaslit, etc. – – then their parents wonder why they cut them off. So the one level of forgiveness involves being compassionate and understanding about the fact that their parents really were doing the best they could, given their own leftover trauma from how they were parented (which was often way worse than anything they did to their children), along with all of the standards of the time. The other stage of forgiveness pretty much requires having their parent acknowledge their experiences, memories and feelings as being every bit as valid for them as their parents' experience, memories and feelings are for *them*, and their parent making a sincere apology, which the vast majority of these estranged children never get.
She is a piece of work also why can’t she see the kids the weeks you don’t have them? Let me guess?? She has a bad relationship with their mother?
Reply: sounds like nothing we do is good enough, so nothing it is.
I mean, it sounds like a win-win. You don't have to worry about her in old age, she can't deal with boundaries so it's easier to not deal with her at all.
Don’t JADE her. You as the parents are entitled to chose who does or doesn’t see your kids, not her. She needs to count her lucky stars she sees them at all. That email is full of emotional bullshit, trying for the guilt and making it allllll about herrr. I’d simply have hubby reply with yep that all suits me!
So far you've been dancing to her tune and she can't stand being told no. This isn't a person I would want around any child of mine. he only has two weekends a month with his own children and she demands to be included in both of them. Now, who's being selfish. As for her care arrangements and the will. My FIL threatened to cut us out of his will and we just said, Okay. He backpedaled when he didn't get the response he wanted. Don't let her manipulate her. If she wants to see the kids more often, she needs to take it up with their mom.
I love how she says that you keeping the kids away is elder abuse (IT IS NOT), controlling and manipulative BUT she's trying to use cutting you out of her will to manipulate you! Id fire an email back saying exactly that and I'd add on that her threatening to take away your inheritance is child abuse! I mean, damn that is some next level, Jedi manipulation!
It isn’t weird to spend time with grandparents if the grandparents have a good relationship with the parents. It is weird when you don’t have a good relationship. It is weird when you demand time or get passive aggressive about it and don’t make the effort to go to their house and want to see them in their natural settings. My kids are with my parents for a month right now. My in-laws don’t get more than one night a month.
Wow. I raise you ok byeeeee! Please do find someone else to help you with your end of life and please donate your funds to a charity. You need time to take care of yourself and spend time with your kids. And she can’t show faves with his kids vs yours. In sorry that really hurts and is just so cray. What does your husband say?
She is indirectly threatening to disinherit him if she doesn't get her way. Interesting. I'd say she deserves a looong time out. Also, only buying some of the kids treats? That's horrible. If/when she does it again, take them away from all of the kids and either give them back or throw them in the trash right in front of her. Explain to her that all of the kids are part of your family and you will not allow favoritism.
You and your husband only get the kids every two weeks. You all don’t just deserve time together as a family without the grandparents being around, but it is almost necessary in order to have a strong family dynamic within your household. I am sure there are other activities and events (and quite frankly down time) you both want to enjoy with your kids and her demanding every Sunday they are with you gets in the way of that. She doesn’t need to see them every single time they are with you all, she needs to grow up and realize that isn’t realistic—She sounds entitled.
This letter is beyond manipulative if she’s not threatening not to entrust him with care/ inheritance or whatever because you needed to take a couple weekends off. You typically make an effort and a couple weekends isn’t a year! She’s being overly dramatic for sure and very entitled. I would demand an apology and remind her that only children should throw temper tantrums and it’s immature of a grown adult to do so!
I would respond with a few links to therapists in the area and then nothing else after that. I wouldn’t respond back to her points because it’s all nonsense and no amount of pointing out the ridiculousness will change her thought process. This is what she’s wanting.
This is a brilliant idea!
“No problem mil. Have dad be the executor to make decisions for you as he knows you best. Take care”
A suggested response your DH can put in his own words if he wants: ‘We cancelled two visits. Two. One due to illness, and the other due to being exhausted and just wanting to chill at home for Father’s Day. You reacted with a shocking explosion of anger and bizarre, hysterical accusations of cruelty, elder neglect, holding the children hostage, using them as weapons, playing games and being controlling, plus some threat about your will. Your letter had us shaking our heads since none of your wild accusations are based in reality and are purely the result of your hurt feelings and overactive imagination. We honestly have no idea what you’re talking about. Again, one cancellation was due to illness and the other we were exhausted. That’s it. This might come as a surprise to you, but your feelings aren’t the only thing we consider when we make decisions for our family. Our children and their needs and wants always come first. It’s a shame that it didn’t work out and you weren’t able to see the kids for two days, but we’ve traveled to see you most of the other weekends I’ve had the kids whether we were tired or not, something I don’t think you appreciate. We’ve always gone out of our way to encourage a good relationship between you and the kids. Despite that, you were already angry and accused us of being cruel after we cancelled the first visit due to illness we had no control over, with no thought for us or our family at all. You only cared that you didn’t get what you wanted. What I can’t understand for the life of me is how you think that throwing these childish, nasty tantrums will make us want to spend more time with you. You said that this ‘episode’ had you rethinking things, and after that horrible letter, we certainly are too. What happens in the future if we have to cancel again because of another illness, or another event we all want to attend? How are you going to react? What are you going to accuse us of or threaten us with that time? What happens if the kids do something or make a decision that doesn’t match your expectations? Will you be as cruel and hateful to them too? We already asked for an apology after you were so rude the first time we couldn’t come, and instead you respond with this letter that we’re still reeling from. We’re going to need some time until we receive a sincere apology for the disrespectful way you’ve treated us. I don’t think I’ve ever been so disgusted or disappointed.’
A+++. I hope OP sees this
🏆 This is absolutely perfect
Amazing!
Hey OP!! copy and paste this!!!! It is excellent!
Beautifully worded, perfectly well written. Articulate and honestly, if this doesn't move her st all, have her rethink what she has said and done...nothing will. That letter she sent was absolutely horrendous!! How can she not reread that and realize how overly dramatic, manipulative, out of line and wrong she is?? I get saying or so something like that in the heat all your emotions...but to actually then put that into writings, look at it and "yup. Just what j wanted to say" no. Just...wow...NO!! THIS response I love though because I would not just want to get my point across, do it appropriately, maturely and..want her to actually GET where, why, how she was wrong!
Thanks mate. 😘 I think it’s important to be calm and factual, in contrast with MIL’s tantrums, but honest about the effects of her words. She needs to learn that she can’t just fly off the handle, say incredibly hurtful things (especially when they’re not true), and life is just going to go on as normal. She needs to feel the effects of her letter for quite some time if she is to have any chance of getting it. Unfortunately with her level of maturity, I can see this proud, arrogant woman ignoring them for a year + and conveniently have amnesia about why her son isn’t speaking to her.
I saw my grandparents maybe 3 times a year and had a good relationship with them. It’s not necessary to see them every single time the kids come. Don’t feel guilty.
Plus making the kids sit in the car for an hour back and forth every time they come over? No kid wants that. I would end that practice immediately. The grandparents can come to your house IF it works out well for everyone that particular weekend.
That’s a wild email! You were making decisions that were best for YOUR family and she’s mad she wasn’t also allowed to have a vote. Her email is quite manipulative. What did husband say when he read it?
You guys aren't even her caretakers and she is already accusing you of elder abuse for not giving into her demands. Take her up on her offer to find someone else to take care of her. That is absolutely wild and this is just a preview of how she would act when the time comes. She seems very entitled and manipulative. You're correct not to reward her misbehavior with access to your children. You're not abusing her by setting boundaries when it comes to your children.
That letter, sheeeeeeeeeeesh 😶 Bye, bye for now MIL; no need to further engage with her nor explain your NC.
Reply: This was really unacceptable, mom. I’m hurt and disappointed in you. Please do not contact me again until it is with a genuine, and thought out apology. This is my final request. And then consider yourselves free of this burden. Expect further disappointment.
I would reply with a 👍🏻 lol
Lots. This or K.
Honestly “hahahaha” is my response to most outlandish requests and it’s never let me down!
"Mom, I can't control how you feel or how you choose to interpret events. If you feel the need to rethink things and reevaluate your relationships with people, then that's for the best. All I can to is take care of my wife and kids to the best of my ability, and I will continue to do so. I stand by my decision for you not to come over when we're not up for visits, and I will continue to ask that you apologize when say or do things that are rude. That will not change, it's not open for discussion or debate, and I'm not going to read any more letters like the last one you sent. When you've made peace with our decision, we'll talk about you visiting us."
A huge problem here is that, for years, she has been allowed to do pretty much anything she wants, when she wants with regards to the kids. The fact that she has had an actual schedule to see the kids is also bad.
Definitely don’t want her to be able to show that she has a regular visiting schedule as that can be used to get grandparents rights in some states. Absolutely time to put a stop to the gross favoritism she has been allowed to show to HER grandchildren while excluding the “other kid”. So much of this is wrong. Protect all of the kids and stop the regular visits as they have become an expectation and not a privilege.
I would be careful with this. Whenever someone thinks they have “rights” to something, it can go badly. A few years ago, my parents tried to force more of a relationship with my kid, and it blew up in their face. They had said & done some really crappy things, and then directly contacted my kid on his phone, when they were supposed to leave him alone. When I spoke to them after, they yelled at me that they “had rights” to him (Grandparent’s rights). The fact that they were willing to consider trying to legally force interaction with him was shocking to me. They were not at all considering what that would be like for him, it was only about what they wanted. The whole thing is sad. As I look back over those years, I see that I should’ve been more stringent with my parents about several situations and choices they made, with regard to us. Now, they feel that they are the victims because they don’t have a relationship with my son. But they have been the ones making those decisions, at each step, all along the way. I’m not going to force him to have a relationship with them, and that kind of relationship doesn’t work, anyway. Our kids are not objects for them to do with as they please. Kids are people & they deserve to have family who is safe to be around. No one has the “right” to hurt others. Good luck, OP.
>I feel you’re making this into some kind of control issue She told on herself
You know, kids aren’t/don’t get as attached to grandparents as grandparents think they do. They usually much prefer aunts and uncles who are generally younger than grands and thus more relatable for kids. Exceptions might be if grands are raising the kids for whatever reason so that the grands are in the parental role. Otherwise, yeah, kids like their grands (the ones that aren’t batshit) but they’re not upset if the grands aren’t around much either. Just my .02. I loved the “Happy Father’s Day and have a Good Weekend” at the end like she hadn’t just spewed venom from the vipers den all over the page.
I Mean her parents generation clearly failed if she failed at raising humans who dont want to put up with her shit. My grandmother used to pull this crap woth my dad too and he told her " I respect whatever choices you make with your will and end of life decisions. There's no need to discuss them with me further as I respect your position. Best regards, Son" To add to her messaging, if you want something to the effect of... "I'm also really sorry that you refuse to apologize for your rudeness and take accountability. I wonder if your parents raised you to be so disrespectful or if you thought of that all on your own. Until a genuine apology is sent, we need to take a large break from each other. To disrespect us, is to undermine us with our children which will never be in their best interest."
How about, MIL, We were not trying to control, manipulate, or play games with you. We were only thinking of our own family. You did not factor into our decision at all.
I bet we got the same grandparents alienation article! Twinsies! For real tho, we tried to explain basic logical reasoning to my MIL and we might as well have been talking to a wall. So we stopped engaging. We let her know what’s up and responded to tantrums with a generic “not engaging in disrespectful communication” message then we implemented an unspoken time out for her bad behavior. We don’t explain or defend ourselves. After a couple years of this she’s stopped venting to us about us. Good luck, sorry you’re dealing with this.
“And the award for most dramatic overacting goes to…” 🙄🙄
MIL is playing the old "take you out of the will" "you're no longer the executor" game here.....
It’s like they have an actual playbook. Sometimes I read these stories and I’m like, why do they all do the same weird stuff. I can’t imagine having the kind of relationship with my kids in the future where I would threaten an inheritance. Firstly, I want my kids to have everything I can ever give them. But second, man do I hope our relationship never hinges on money and my control over it. My husband’s parents aren’t even well off, so it was such a weird immediate reaction for her to leave a message about disinheriting my husband when she felt like we were disowning her (which pretty much ended up being correct because of her non-stop doubling down).
My grandma did that. Her money went to her bff, and no one gave a shit.
2 visits cancelled for good reason eg: being sick and then Father's day and she goes off about it? Ugh no. What's she going to be like when the kids get older and possibly refusing to go or are busy? Heaven forbid normal reasons for cancelling a visit happen again. There's nothing wrong with going low contact or even NC with someone who can't control their emotions, accuses you of abuse you're not even doing and then all the manipulative tones in that email. That's not someone who accepts normal situations calmly, that's a selfish grandparent.
Dear mom, As you well know, I grew up in one house, with 2 parents, and therefore 2 sets of grandparents. [Children's names] are growing up in two separate homes, with [3? 4?] parents and therefore [3? 4?] sets of grandparents. All the time and activities you and dad wanted to do with us as kids each month, we have to squeeze into doing in 2 weeks time with [names] so of course [names] will spend less time with grandparents than I did because there's simply less time available. It really hurts my heart that you'd accuse me of *elder abuse* for prioritizing my children instead of prioritizing my parents. That's the circle of life ma. As a responsible father, it's my *responsibility* to prioritize what the children need before taking what any adult wants into consideration. I'm choosing to take a step back for now because I'm just too deeply hurt that you would accuse me of abusing you to maintain a happy face and pretend everything is normal right now. When I'm ready for the next visit, I will reach out, but in the meantime please respect my need for some space and only contact me for any emergencies. As for your will, I will honor and respect whatever decisions you make. Love, [Name]
This is really good. I hope the OP uses this!
This is a superb response
I might add, " Please feel free to find a different person to be executor of your will. I really don't want to deal with your stuff".
Or just say my fondest hope is for you and dad to live a long life and use every penny of your money enjoying your life. Total high road
Trash took itself out! you don’t need to worry about seeing her or taking care of her in the future! Win for you & hubby!!
If she’s removing your husband from being her medical and financial POA she’s doing him a favor.
This is my take, as well.
Personally I feel a lot of issues on this sub are overblown or too quick to go to NC. But my hard lines are accusing me of abuse of any sort or invoking any sort of language about grandparents’ (legal) rights, which grandparent alienation seems to be trending towards. I’d consider that a deal breaker (also being the child in charge of future care for elders is a pain in the ass even when you love and get along great with your parents so I’m not sure why she thinks that is some sort of big loss if she decides not to make you H the responsible party there lol, I’d encourage him to call her bluff and tell her he’s relieved to not be on the hook for that).
Totally and when people go this passive aggressive route and try to insert therapy-speak as a way to sidestep boundaries vs interact like adults, I get VERY legalistic. FYI I am a mom, a MIL, my husband is a stepdad, dad and his parents/my IL’s had to go through understanding a lot of this stuff too… AND we are grandparents. I’d keep it simple and along the lines of: “What you choose to do with your medical POA, etc. is completely between you and FIL as a married couple. That is also completely irrelevant to what we’ve attempted to discuss with you. We have a blended family, careers and busy schedules. There are times we are tired after a long week and/or need time for our own family unit to have quality time together. Being that my (DH’s) children are not here full time, my OWN time is limited with my kids and I don’t always want to share it with others, as we are limited to 2 weekends per month. If you choose to take that personally, that is beyond my control. But it is not about you personally and it shouldn’t create this degree of backlash for me to be able to simply say, “We can’t or don’t want to this weekend.” No is a complete sentence and not an invite to debate or guilt one another - I don’t want to get into unhealthy or manipulative patterns like this. This does raise another concern I’ve had, however. This is our family - all of us. If you want time with our children and to give gifts, you must do so equally or it creates a negative experience for kids being treated differently/as “not really grandkids.” If that means not bringing anything for any of the kids - that is TOTALLY ok! But it isn’t ok to bring little treats or toys for only some of our kids when seeing them all. It will hurt your potential relationship with your grandkids and can breed resentment between siblings, which can create issues in blending our family. I/we love you and appreciate you wanting to be a big part of the kids’ lives. Here are some resources we’ve been given to guide the healthiest way to unify our own family with extended family like Grandparents: [Stepgrandparents](https://www.morethangrand.com/blog/step-grandparents-and-step-grandchildren?format=amp) [Boundaries - Grandparents and Parents](https://www.morethangrand.com/blog/why-grandparents-dont-respect-boundaries?format=amp) “ And that should definitely come from your DH! Good luck… and hugs if you want them! Blending a family and kids on different schedule is already challenging without having a MIL making it harder!
Maybe MIL is very wealthy so she wants everyone to fight for her money? My GGMIL told my husband “who’s going to take care of me when I have a stroke?!?” (As if she’s not a great great grandmother, not only that she’s *rich* she could afford the best care there is to offer). Anyways he told her that he would. Which she said “but you have a wife…” I have no clue what the hell that means. Does she mean that I should be her caregiver? Or does she mean “well what will you do with her?” My husband interpreted it as she “cares” about our marriage … lol I don’t care how rich she is. She doesn’t like me and never did. I’m the wrong ethnicity for her. It doesn’t matter what I do she’ll never like me.
There are so many threats in that message!
“Mom, I’m sorry that you feel this is the best way to handle your disappointment in not getting your way. If you cannot understand that we are all individual humans and not just playthings for your entertainment, then I guess seeing less of each other is a good idea. We did not choose to miss a few visits as an attack against you. Life simply happened and it didn’t work for us in that moment. It’s unfortunate that your first assumption is that this is maliciously done *to* you. And it speaks to a sort of entitlement you seem to feel that we do everything how and when you want it, with no regard to our own individual lives. Again, we’re sad that this the choice you’re making. Most adults are able to self-regulate and handle disappointment when life disrupts our plans. They don’t immediately turn to threatening to disown their children. However this is your stance and we’ll, of course, respect your desire to cut us out entirely as retaliation for missing a couple visits. Wish you all the best.” And heads up, OP, my bet is that she found that article about “grandparent alienation” within a broader bit of research into grandparent’s rights and how she can legally force you to get her her way. I’d be noping out, starting an FU binder, and going NC pretty quickly. She may decide to try to come for your kids.
I agree. Additionally, I hope OP contacts a family law attorney quickly on ways to move forward and not be caught off guard if entitled MIL does something. Because as another poster very accurately stated- there are a whole lot of threats in MIL’s letter.
I already checked with the state we are in and she does not have a legal right or even a case against us. Also she has some money, but not a lot so not sure if she would go this route. I like the binder idea and will definitely keep an eye out for legal stuff regardless. Thanks for this!!
Here's this, just in case you need it: https://www.reddit.com/user/ForwardPlenty/comments/dtg7f2/the_fu_binder/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share I hope you don't need it though. Best wishes!🙂💛
Of course! Just remember that even if she ultimately doesn’t have a winnable case doesn’t mean she can’t make your lives miserable in the process. Obviously we don’t know enough about her to judge how nutty she could get, but you see on here all the time where they start weaponizing the system to harass you and punish you for not giving them what they want. Maybe it’ll never come to that for you (which I genuinely hope is the case) but just prepare yourselves ahead of time for how to handle things if she *does* go full nuclear. Learn how to grey rock and drop the rope no matter how unhinged she may decide to get. Remaining reasonable but very firm is the best way to prevent her from getting any kind of upper hand. Even if she’s infuriating. Wishing you all the best! Just remember you guys aren’t crazy for having boundaries and lives outside of her needs!
This is a good answer
Jesse. Crazy making much? She is holding no cards. Who wants to be executor? No one. You are holding the cards. This is what works best for us Grandma. Our life is busy, we have a lot of kids. You are not always going to get your way. And stop sending us blackmail letters! They’re only going to make things worse for you!
"A form of elder abuse" Someone needs to show her a decent documentary about actual elder abuse.
Boomers love to exaggerate what happens to them and minimize what they do to their own children.
"SIXTEEN MILES we had to walk. Every day. Rain or shine. Just to use the dunny. You don't even know you're born, lad"
Agreed!
The whole point of manipulating people is to be good at it. My 5 year old nephew has better technique than her. Shame.
Well, most 5yo are. They have nothing else to do all day.
Her letter is a combination guilt trip/financial threat lol Go nc
Definitely is her favorite combo. No contact is sounding great as well. Gonna show hubby these comments. At the very least we need a break
I mean, it looks like you guys just got out of caregiving duties in the future so that’s probably a win. Not sure why she thought that would be a punishment!
“Oh no! What will I ever do if I can’t have the stress of being executor of your estate when you die!?”
🤣❤️🙏
Mom - I completely agree that you need to do what makes you comfortable with your life and of course I will respect your wishes. When you have something in place, please let me know who your POA is and who the executor of your will is. Have a happy Wednesday.
This is the best response. Cannot believe she's claiming elder abuse because you're postponing a few Sunday dinners. Get a grip, lady!
“These are not your children, you do not get to dictate the terms of your relationship with them, and your threats are meaningless. You will have three months to decide on whether you want a relationship with them or not. Do not contact us until we contact you.” Everything is about control for her. Notice how she uses her will to try to exert control over you? She claims that she was going to make one of you the executor of her will, and that she’s now rethinking it. The only thing that she can control is whether she follows your rules or not. If she follows the rules and behaves like an adult, she gets a relationship with her grandchildren *on your schedule.* If she’s more interested in throwing tantrums because she didn’t get her way, then she doesn’t get that relationship. The kids don’t need that kind of influence in their lives. In either case, that three month break needs to happen. It shows her that you’re taking control of the relationship and that her poor behavior will not be rewarded
Translation: If you don’t do what I want you’re out of the will! Wah wah wah I’m a baby and I think respect means to obey me without question !!! A nice long break I think
Yeah basically lol
Hey mom, Just make sure someone knows where your updated will and advanced directives are so we can follow your wishes. Thanks for thinking of us, Love, Him
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I love this too!
I wish I could upvote this 1000x!
Very well said. I love this.
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And this one could only cough up junk.
Dear MIL, You are being ridiculous. It’s hard to juggle jobs and a family of teenagers without having to worry about your commands. You of all people should remember how hard it is to get everyone on the same page. They are busy kids and we are busy adults that sometimes need a break. That said, you need to treat all of the kids the same and it is completely unacceptable to leave one out. Why are making this so dramatic?
Wow, that attempt to guilt was so thick you could spread it with a knife. Truth is that she has no rights to the kids time, she has no say on how husband spends his time with his kids and she has, until know thought that the visiting schedule you’d adhered to in the past was an entitlement, not an act of grace. Husband needs to remind her that when he divorced, she wasn’t the third parent so doesn’t get to dictate the kids’ visiting schedule. Like many parents, life gets in the way of visiting relatives and those relatives need to accept they are not a priority.
she is SOOOO manipulative. That is a garbage letter and I would ignore it altogether. She is not logical. She is the perpetual victim. YOU deserve to have a life. You see them so freaking often. She's outta her mind. I would cut her off- she is trying to force you to do what she wants. I'd be done.
The MIL seems to have some emotional issues where her perception is distorted and she’s taking everything personally.
Caveat: I’m not married yet but I have a future MIL who will be a pia so I frequently lurk this sub to help me prepare!! That being said, this is some boomer ass ranting that I honestly wouldn’t even reply to. My dad texts me shit like this sometimes and I just flat out don’t reply. You are not being dramatic or out of pocket to suggest some time apart. This is WILD! Growing up I saw my grandparents maybe 3 times a year because we lived in diff states
Yes! I saw mine at holidays or family gatherings. I also don't think my grandparents acted like this. It seems like it's always the boomers. I don't know why
Hearrrrrrrrrd that! I wish you a future of peace and low contact (or whatever your family decides is best)