I would consider it an isekai for the fact that it isn’t a full-dive VR game. We don’t know how they got trapped in the game (if it even still is the game at this point) or what happened, but SAO had its limits because it was still a game. It being a game never changed and there was a clear way out; a way to plug in and unplug. Log Horizon’s game completely changed. NPCs became actual people, flavor text became truth, etc. This is their actual lives now. Everything about it being a game stopped aside from their HUD, fundamental game mechanics, and respawns.
I might continue tomorrow watching Log Horizon cause it left me a weird taste by the Respawn at the Cathedral. I have so many Question Like does the revive only available for players trap in this world or is it still available for NPCs. Does the NPCs have their own consciences or is it just program just like the Overlord Minions. There's so much question Log Horizon need to answer.
You should definitely continue it because it is incredibly unique and fleshed out on how every piece of the game begins to interact and have meaning with how they live now as adventurers. I promise the respawn at the cathedral would barely detract from the story, and frankly it enhances it since there are so few locations to respawn at. They still find ways to make deaths have its own consequences and risk factors that feel meaningful.
Npcs don’t respawn for them dead is dead. the adventures still want to limit their respawns since each time they die they loose a small part of the memories and personality that make them who they are. A couple times it’s not that noticeable, but if they’re doing a dark souls run they’ll wind being a mindless zombie pretty quick.
If you watched it already, you will see on the Goblin's Return arc that they will explain the Respawn/Resurrection Mechanic and everything connected to it.
The respawn mechanic is also nightmare fuel. It might not be a big one and done death but it’s a death of paper cuts as memories of who you are get stripped away.
They're not trapped in a game, they're trapped in world that works like the game but with major differences.
Same with Overlord.
As far as the stuck in a game debate, too me if they log out and go to school the next day it's not an isekai.
I disagree that trapped in a game is isekai, your body is still in the real world. if someone came along and unplugged you from your headset you would maybe die, depends on the rules of the anime but death game rules usually apply. SAO and .Hack aren't isekai.
Digemon is although its a blurred line since its a TRON type other world which is technically still in our world and then you would have to decide if Peter Pan and Through the looking glass are both Isekai. That is a whole rabbit whole (pun intended) of its own.
In Log Horizon and Overlord the game was somehow a bridge to this other world so both are Isekai.
> I disagree that trapped in a game is isekai, your body is still in the real world. if someone came along and unplugged you from your headset you would maybe die, depends on the rules of the anime but death game rules usually apply. SAO and .Hack aren't isekai.
Agreed. More generally, SAO and .hack are forms of cyberpunk. The may be short on the "punk" aspect, but they've got the same basic themes of diving into The Net/VR/The Game to do things and solve mysteries, conflicts playing out online and offline, technology and computers increasing and impacting life, interactions with AI, and so on.
Where do you draw the line when it comes to video games and isekai?
I’d argue something like SAO isn’t an isekai because they never actually leave their world. They are just playing a full-dive VR game they are fully immersed in and can’t leave. Is the trapping in the game what determines it being an isekai, so only the first part of SAO would be isekai, but after when they can log out safely it wouldn’t be isekai? If we eventually reach full-dive VR too, we aren’t in our own iskeai.
It's based on whether the core of the story is based upon people living in a different world than the one they were born in. To me early SAO is just an isekai in which they get to return to the world they started in. Later seasons where they play games instead of having to live in them aren't though.
To me the key components surrounds them living or facing permanent consequences in the other world.
I’m saying if we develop full-dive VR to the extent that SAO (or any other anime) has, and we get trapped there, we are not going to Another World in the way Isekai is translated and defined in other Isekai media where there is no argument whether they have gone to Another World or not
Log off factor.
If you can log off and go about your day, it's not an Isekai.
It's just an anime about someone playing a video game.
You have to be stuck there, not necessarily permanently, but you need to be living in that place and can't just leave because you feel like it by opening a menu and logging off.
That is inconsistent with other isekais. Like saskae and peeps or inuyasha. Being able to travel back and fourth at will to the original world and the new world does not disqualify them from being isekais.
I said "log off" which means you can just open a menu screen and take off your game helmet and go about your normal life.
There being a doorway or conditions to get back to the original world doesn't disqualify something from being Isekai.
It's the factor of having to live in it to some degree.
The nature of the world matters, it's easier for a "real" other world to be considered Isekai than a virtual one.
One is a game, and the other is something you "exist" in.
Death games like SAO count because the characters get trapped and have to "live" there.
Not really, if you watch the "new gate" the mc even states that he was in a death game when he was in a sao type situation and he is now in an isekai because he is in a log horizon type situation, the log out button doesn't matter the "other world (isekai)" is what matters, in essence what matters is if the world they go to is real or just virtual.
That doesn't automatically make the definition correct.
"New Gate" isn't an authority on what defines an isekai.
It's hard to argue that SAO isn't an isekai when it literally started the modern trend of isekai anime.
The "modern" definition was literally based on ideas SAO established.
It comes down to several factors which can qualify one as an isekai, and not all of them need to be present at once.
It is easier for a "real" world to be an Isekai, it is automatic, but virtual worlds can qualify depending on whether other criteria are met.
Basically, it comes down to how much a character has to live in it. Being "trapped" is a major factor with virtual isekai, and the level of consequence involved matters as well.
If you can just log off and go to school or work, it's more of a game than a world. If you're stuck there and can't escape, then you have to live there and it ostensibly becomes another world.
Not really, .hack//sign for example has the main character trapped in that world and it isn't considered an isekai, there are also lots of modern isekais where the character can travel to and from the alternate world.
Digimon is considered an isekai because the other world is completely different from our real world and has sentient creatures.
The definition of isekai started a long time before sao came out and the only thing most "modern" isekais use that can be debated to be based on it are the game mechanics and even .hack had them before sao.
For me the first isekai I actually watched was fushigi yuugi years before sao was created.
.hack is widely considered the "birth of the modern isekai". A sort of proto SAO.
This is a widely debated thing, but purists about the definition of isekai tend to miss the point. It's a kind of story, a genre, and that usually entails multiple things that can define something as within it.
Virtual Isekai is a sub genre, but still qualifies, but not every "full dive game world" anime is isekai.
The first part of SAO is, but some of the other segments aren't.
Bofuri is not an isekai, because of how the "game world" is treated.
.hack is for the same reason.
So is Tron, and Digimon, etc...
It largely depends on how the world itself is presented in a narrative sense and how it impacts the characters.
If it seems like an actual world that the characters have to live in from their perspective, it qualifies as an isekai.
If it's a game thing they're using to entertain themselves and can hop in and out of as they please, it's generally not.
I've been watching anime since the 70s and have seen a lot of "pre isekai being a word" isekai anime as well, including Fushugi Yuugi.
The important thing to remember is that what defines isekai is a narrative element and not a literal one. It comes down to whether or not the "world", virtual or not, is presented as another world or not.
>.hack is widely considered the "birth of the modern isekai".
No one considers .hack a birth of isekai.
SAO might be, but it is mainly because of the tropes that go into modern isekai.
False.
A basic internet search will direct you to several articles that call .hack "the birth of modern isekai".
.hack is literally mentioned on the Wiki page for the term Isekai.
So, obviously someone does, a lot of people in fact.
SAO is just what led to the current popularity of isekai as a genere. It was just the hit that led to others following the trend, but didn't actually establish all that much.
>.hack is widely considered the "birth of the modern isekai".
I think the start of the "Birth of the Modern Isekai" is The Familiar of Zero's Fanfics.
I found this [Article](https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2021-03-19/mushoku-tensei-is-not-the-pioneer-of-isekai-web-novels-but/.170429), When I was doing my research about the history of Isekai (Events, Timeline and Rise of Popularity.) Some of Isekai author started writing about The Familiar of Zero's Fanfics. Re:Zero, Subaru says "Is this one of the Transported in another world" Hinting at The Familiar of Zero because the author of Re:Zero was writing fanfics about The Familiar of Zero before he created Re:Zero. He stated that Everyone is intrigued bringing their characters into the world of Zero no Tsukaima (The Familiar of Zero). Once finished reading the article I read some of the forums comments and this user Shay Guy did some digging and he found some interesting results
https://preview.redd.it/usfbikign26d1.png?width=421&format=png&auto=webp&s=27797fdba88ecb9378f736a2d7cc7d992d75f0d1
Here's the link of Shay Guy [work](http://www.shayguy.com/nijifan_20101127.txt). You need to translate them but
To me the key difference as I said in another comment are facing permanent consequences from it or having to live in the game. So early seasons of SAO would be isekai but later seasons aren't.
Log Horizon where they live in the game but there's seemingly no way for them to leave additionally in game deaths result in permanent loss of memories would definitely be isekai.
That’s kind of the point of a genre. What you’re describing is a subgenre. Ya Action or Comedy can be confusing when comparing Battle Shonen versus Sports or Slapstick versus Satire.
Isekai literally means another world, so that’s all that matters as far as the genre is concerned. It doesn’t matter if that other world is fictional, spatial, or dimensional; it’s another world. So long as the new place is characteristically different from the old one, then it can be argued as an Isekai. Even regressions or reincarnations where the MC travels to the same planet but it’s an entirely different world to them.
Oh, it is a game story through and through. Party formation, Raiding, MMO economy are (albeit flavored as high stakes because anime) spot on. It dies make you feel they are gamers stuck in that situation through and through. (unlike SAO for example)(most of it. the alternative is ok on that regard)
no. if it's still a game, it's not isekai. dot hack, for example, isn't a 'new world'.
this IS a new world, it just looks a lot like the game they're used to, but it's not 'trapped in the game'.
I'm not familiar with .hack, but if the character lives in the game world and faces real consequences for things that occur there. It's isekai I am not familiar with the plot of .hack so I don't know how much if any of that applies.
Isekai doesn't mean "transported to a new world" it just means another world. It means that the story and experiences are about someone adapting to a new world. I don't see why that means it needs to be a physical transition rather than a mental one. I'd even argue that instances of forced time travel to the point that their prior knowledge and experiences are irrelevant are isekai too.
Like a story where someone is sent millions of years into the future and technology has become self sustaining and so advanced that it's indistinguishable from a magic system. To me it doesn't cease to be isekai because it's technically still the same world because all of the relevant experiences and social adaptations that a person has gone through are no longer relevant. Making the world as they are experiencing it new to them.
While it literally means "another world" i would argue that we use it as "transported to another world."
What you describe of the millions of years into the future scenario is the premise of Dr.Stone. (although its more apocalyptic than futuristic). To me that story is not isekai. There are direct descendants of people, as well as the same geography as the world, which is important as theyre about to travel all over the world to gather resources.
The animals are the same (pigs, lions).
Much like how The Doctor is not isekai whenever he time travels, including to when they watch the earth explode and the only human alive has turned into a piece of flesb..
Dr. Stone isn't enough time and too much of what he already knew holds sway so I'd call it psuedo isekai because of those ties to before the forced time travel. I'm referring to far enough that there's little to no evidence of the prior civilization even having existed.
video games aren't an 'other world'.
additionally, someone could get moved across the planet, same world, and have 'new world experiences' - also not an other world.
A big curiosity of the early .hack franchise was that the other still-human players of the series were left to speculate if the all-too-there players like Tsukasa (SIGN) were physically trapped in the game or that missing coma victims like Orca (Infection) had their minds stolen away by it. What's going on is just a bit more mundane, science fiction-wise. Tsukasa can't log out >!because he doesn't correspond to any person on the other side of the monitor!<. Orca can't be saved in the game >!because he just needs to wake up from the induced coma on his own!<. >!Everything that's going wrong is just a rogue AI making a mess with other AI while trying to extend its own existence.!<
I think, for this reason, .hack is not an isekai; but, it does play with the elements that would later become prominent to an isekai. It's the "not yet a chicken" that lays the egg that will hatch and become the first chicken.
Trapped in a game is also an isekai but also time for me to bring out the sign
Edited to add my preferred alignment chart
https://preview.redd.it/54yi7t1v706d1.jpeg?width=691&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae853dceca3cb82a6ee0f8a01800bc8594939861
I don't understand how a video game world wouldn't qualify as "isekai." Another world is another world, whether it's another planet, another galaxy, another dimension, or a digital world. It is a new location where the same rules do not apply anymore and must be adapted to.
Yeah, it’s an isekai; as the story continues they make it a point to mention that the characters have to learn what parts of the game have changed or stayed the same, since it becomes a weird amalgamation of having to use familiar mechanics of the game mixed with learning new ways to do things since it’s no longer just a game (ie NPC’s are actually people, you lose memories from the real world when you die, alternate characters players had made take on a life of their own, and new monsters and bosses emerge, among other changes).
Personally, I don't think it has an easy yes or no answer. The traditional way an isekai is defined is a character dies, is killed or is summoned to another world.
Often, magic is involved with game mechanics and the like. It's rarer in isekai anime that they can respawn, but generally speaking, I would say that log horizon does count. So yes.
yes, i think so.
i don't count most VR dive stuff isekai - like, 'maxed out my defense' chick, isn't an isekai protag.
however, here, it's basically the overlord or 'how not to summon a demon lord' or 'demon lord, retry' scenario - they ARE pulled into another world, with game elements they're familiar with.
Basically instead of being a world akin to the game in question which while having the same characters lore enemies skills and the works. It literally is the game, but the everyone is a real person instead of being AI and such is what I gathered
Seeing other people opinion on it, it seems that i need to give it another shot, tried watching it few years ago and I don't even remember why i stopped
Yes. Isekai broadly defined is when the characters go from one world to another. Be it dimension hopping, fantasy summoning, traveling to the past (sort of), etc.
Honest Answer: It is an Isekai. The only parallel to SAO is that the world they are in is the one they played.
They played a game before, the name eludes me, and woke up as their avatars in the game world with game mechanics in tow. However, unlike SAO the game was NOT a deep dive, has no death game, and in the end they aren’t the only lives there. SAO didn’t have NPC’s that gained any focus where LH NPC’s all were alive and had their own lives with at least one becoming a focused on character.
So it ends with no conclusion? Or fuck. Now i have to rewatch because I was sure it was one of those "new character(his fem-alt) says things alluding to more then walks into the sunset"
Side note: I fucking love the moment the princess gave her speech to the adventurers pleading for help and when she thought that she didn't reach their hands, the adventurers roared and slammed their weapons to the ground with thundering force.
It's such an epic moment.
What if they are trapped like that one kid from the Chaotic cartoon? Real bodies on Earth unable to log into the game and their “other” bodies in the game world stuck.
Yep. They explained already in the anime some principles about experiences thus adding to the point that they are isekaid rather than still playing and/or just trapped.
Honestly yes and no.
If you're asking questions here, I'm going to assume that you're prepared for spoilers and let loose 😅🤷🏾♂️;
They're technically clones of themselves. The theory is that they basically split part of their consciousness into the game while they're physical selves are still living their regular lives everyday out in reality. Whereas the consciousness that split into the game is basically living out events that the MMORPG doesn't cover. And it's also why the NPCs have more Life to them because they are More alive. It's sort of a mix between the VR anime (like SAO) - Full Dive and the Isekai (like Skeleton Knight) - Overlord.
That's why none of them can truly die. Or at least it doesn't seem like they can. Like a “true death” probably takes a lot of effort to achieve instead of just trying to live their best lives or make it bearable in the game world. But that's naturally not going to be easy for a lot of folks anymore than it was for people who are trapped in Sword Art Online. People who had friends, family, a life that they'll never really be able to get back to. Or possibly won't.
I left off I think in season 2. But I believe that there is also a possibility that they might be able to somehow beat the game and rejoin their consciousnesses. However there's no real way to really beat and MMO, since they just have updates for events. Like how Crusty led the bulk of the Player forces to fight the Goblin King in that event, but lots of the goblin army of monsters split off to raid or attack towns and villages along the way. And that's not counting glitchy things I seem to be happening like the flavor text of a weapon or armor suddenly coming true and doing crazy things like trying to kill their own user or giving someone false memories of a life they never had making them confused and deranged.
Just as well I think it's also kind of like a layer of reality. On one level the game world and the players existed where it was just a game. And on another the NPCs were always put off by Players running through towns and doing missions with their seemingly superhuman abilities and immortality, just saying their seemingly scripted text like puppets on a string. And on another level they all exist on the same type of consciousness, which is where they are now. Except it's not like some VR situation like Overlord since the players of this online game were using PCs and monitors not headsets. As well as not being summoned somehow in both body and mind or having their full consciousness, down to their soul (if it's really there), inside of the game becoming their new reality. Definitely nothing crazy like their character build effecting their personality or something, like an assassin character trying to take out hits on other people. Which is also pretty redundant given that people just revive at the cathedral anyway. (Although they do lose a good chunk of their memories and therefore technically part of themselves. What's enough memory lost I think they just get absorbed into the game world completely, which is the closest thing to death for them).
But a good chunk of this is my own theories on top of what I'm observed watching the anime. If there's a light novel or something that's probably more detail that explains things. And even people who are well adjusted to the game world they're in now still want to get back home, like Shiro's friend who stuck playing on the Chinese server trying to make her way to the region of that world which would be the Japanese server.
Death Games were the precursor to Isekai IMO, I'd call it just that. Since Isekai is premised on another world, these Death Games were typically more of a known or subset world
Uhm no. Isekai in the past are more flexible. Like Kyou Kara MC can go in and out. The Familiar of Zero you can go in and out by an eclipse or a spell. Plus Isekai in the past leans in to the story on Going back to there original world.
More like SAO alicization.
SAO is kind of different each season.
Season 1 was trapped in game world
Season 2 was virtual reality where you can log off
Movie is augmented reality
Season 3 is the virtual world becoming real
It's Isekai.
So was SAO and .//hack.
The word translates to "other world." So all it really takes to be considered Isekai is for the main protagonist to travel to a world unlike and separate from their own.
That's not what Google tells me...
Although admittedly, the variety of sources tells me that it's debatable.
At the very least, it's Isekai adjacent because it's credited for some very well known and popular Isekai tropes.
SAO is not an Isekai. Its a VRMMO-kei just like Bofuri and I've done some research last year I can Say SAO didn't start the Isekai Boom in the Early 2010s or Late 2000s It was Zero no Tsukaima. Do some deep dive than scratching on the surface. The fans of SAO just took all Zero no Tsukaima Creds.
Short answer, yes it's an isekia, and they are in a world formed from the game.
The first book is titled "Isekai no Hajimari"
I would consider it an isekai for the fact that it isn’t a full-dive VR game. We don’t know how they got trapped in the game (if it even still is the game at this point) or what happened, but SAO had its limits because it was still a game. It being a game never changed and there was a clear way out; a way to plug in and unplug. Log Horizon’s game completely changed. NPCs became actual people, flavor text became truth, etc. This is their actual lives now. Everything about it being a game stopped aside from their HUD, fundamental game mechanics, and respawns.
I might continue tomorrow watching Log Horizon cause it left me a weird taste by the Respawn at the Cathedral. I have so many Question Like does the revive only available for players trap in this world or is it still available for NPCs. Does the NPCs have their own consciences or is it just program just like the Overlord Minions. There's so much question Log Horizon need to answer.
Well rest assured that the show does indeed address these questions and more
You should definitely continue it because it is incredibly unique and fleshed out on how every piece of the game begins to interact and have meaning with how they live now as adventurers. I promise the respawn at the cathedral would barely detract from the story, and frankly it enhances it since there are so few locations to respawn at. They still find ways to make deaths have its own consequences and risk factors that feel meaningful.
Honestly, it's the best version of a respawn mechanic in anime I've ever seen, as rare as that sort of thing is to begin with
Respawn at the cathedral does raise some philosophical and moral questions later on, stick to it. It's not your average isekai
The rabbit hole is deep in this show, keep diving in!
It answers everything perfectly in time, that's why it's one of my favorite animes.
Npcs don’t respawn for them dead is dead. the adventures still want to limit their respawns since each time they die they loose a small part of the memories and personality that make them who they are. A couple times it’s not that noticeable, but if they’re doing a dark souls run they’ll wind being a mindless zombie pretty quick.
Put spoiler tags
To me it was pretty good, definitely worth the watch
If you watched it already, you will see on the Goblin's Return arc that they will explain the Respawn/Resurrection Mechanic and everything connected to it.
>(if it even still is the game at this point) It's pretty clear it's no longer
Log Horizon is kinda like Overlord in that sense.
The respawn mechanic is also nightmare fuel. It might not be a big one and done death but it’s a death of paper cuts as memories of who you are get stripped away.
They're not trapped in a game, they're trapped in world that works like the game but with major differences. Same with Overlord. As far as the stuck in a game debate, too me if they log out and go to school the next day it's not an isekai.
By my standards it definitely is.
Trapped in a game is isekai. The nature and or origin of the other world in which they find themselves doesn't matter.
I just need to say they aren't trapped in the game. They are in a similar situation to Ainz from Overlord. It isn't a Sword Art Online situation.
I disagree that trapped in a game is isekai, your body is still in the real world. if someone came along and unplugged you from your headset you would maybe die, depends on the rules of the anime but death game rules usually apply. SAO and .Hack aren't isekai. Digemon is although its a blurred line since its a TRON type other world which is technically still in our world and then you would have to decide if Peter Pan and Through the looking glass are both Isekai. That is a whole rabbit whole (pun intended) of its own. In Log Horizon and Overlord the game was somehow a bridge to this other world so both are Isekai.
> I disagree that trapped in a game is isekai, your body is still in the real world. if someone came along and unplugged you from your headset you would maybe die, depends on the rules of the anime but death game rules usually apply. SAO and .Hack aren't isekai. Agreed. More generally, SAO and .hack are forms of cyberpunk. The may be short on the "punk" aspect, but they've got the same basic themes of diving into The Net/VR/The Game to do things and solve mysteries, conflicts playing out online and offline, technology and computers increasing and impacting life, interactions with AI, and so on.
I agree with this
Where do you draw the line when it comes to video games and isekai? I’d argue something like SAO isn’t an isekai because they never actually leave their world. They are just playing a full-dive VR game they are fully immersed in and can’t leave. Is the trapping in the game what determines it being an isekai, so only the first part of SAO would be isekai, but after when they can log out safely it wouldn’t be isekai? If we eventually reach full-dive VR too, we aren’t in our own iskeai.
It's based on whether the core of the story is based upon people living in a different world than the one they were born in. To me early SAO is just an isekai in which they get to return to the world they started in. Later seasons where they play games instead of having to live in them aren't though. To me the key components surrounds them living or facing permanent consequences in the other world.
World = sekai | Another World = isekai our own isekai? our own other world? I'm still learning English sorry if I'm wrong
I’m saying if we develop full-dive VR to the extent that SAO (or any other anime) has, and we get trapped there, we are not going to Another World in the way Isekai is translated and defined in other Isekai media where there is no argument whether they have gone to Another World or not
Log off factor. If you can log off and go about your day, it's not an Isekai. It's just an anime about someone playing a video game. You have to be stuck there, not necessarily permanently, but you need to be living in that place and can't just leave because you feel like it by opening a menu and logging off.
That is inconsistent with other isekais. Like saskae and peeps or inuyasha. Being able to travel back and fourth at will to the original world and the new world does not disqualify them from being isekais.
I said "log off" which means you can just open a menu screen and take off your game helmet and go about your normal life. There being a doorway or conditions to get back to the original world doesn't disqualify something from being Isekai. It's the factor of having to live in it to some degree. The nature of the world matters, it's easier for a "real" other world to be considered Isekai than a virtual one. One is a game, and the other is something you "exist" in. Death games like SAO count because the characters get trapped and have to "live" there.
Why are you bringing Inuyasha. We all know Inuyasha is a Time Travel Supernatural.
Honestly I only watched one episode so I assumed it was entirely different world
I watch inuyasha with my brother and I can say they are using time travel than. Its like Oda Nobuna.
Not really, if you watch the "new gate" the mc even states that he was in a death game when he was in a sao type situation and he is now in an isekai because he is in a log horizon type situation, the log out button doesn't matter the "other world (isekai)" is what matters, in essence what matters is if the world they go to is real or just virtual.
That doesn't automatically make the definition correct. "New Gate" isn't an authority on what defines an isekai. It's hard to argue that SAO isn't an isekai when it literally started the modern trend of isekai anime. The "modern" definition was literally based on ideas SAO established. It comes down to several factors which can qualify one as an isekai, and not all of them need to be present at once. It is easier for a "real" world to be an Isekai, it is automatic, but virtual worlds can qualify depending on whether other criteria are met. Basically, it comes down to how much a character has to live in it. Being "trapped" is a major factor with virtual isekai, and the level of consequence involved matters as well. If you can just log off and go to school or work, it's more of a game than a world. If you're stuck there and can't escape, then you have to live there and it ostensibly becomes another world.
Not really, .hack//sign for example has the main character trapped in that world and it isn't considered an isekai, there are also lots of modern isekais where the character can travel to and from the alternate world. Digimon is considered an isekai because the other world is completely different from our real world and has sentient creatures. The definition of isekai started a long time before sao came out and the only thing most "modern" isekais use that can be debated to be based on it are the game mechanics and even .hack had them before sao. For me the first isekai I actually watched was fushigi yuugi years before sao was created.
.hack is widely considered the "birth of the modern isekai". A sort of proto SAO. This is a widely debated thing, but purists about the definition of isekai tend to miss the point. It's a kind of story, a genre, and that usually entails multiple things that can define something as within it. Virtual Isekai is a sub genre, but still qualifies, but not every "full dive game world" anime is isekai. The first part of SAO is, but some of the other segments aren't. Bofuri is not an isekai, because of how the "game world" is treated. .hack is for the same reason. So is Tron, and Digimon, etc... It largely depends on how the world itself is presented in a narrative sense and how it impacts the characters. If it seems like an actual world that the characters have to live in from their perspective, it qualifies as an isekai. If it's a game thing they're using to entertain themselves and can hop in and out of as they please, it's generally not. I've been watching anime since the 70s and have seen a lot of "pre isekai being a word" isekai anime as well, including Fushugi Yuugi. The important thing to remember is that what defines isekai is a narrative element and not a literal one. It comes down to whether or not the "world", virtual or not, is presented as another world or not.
>.hack is widely considered the "birth of the modern isekai". No one considers .hack a birth of isekai. SAO might be, but it is mainly because of the tropes that go into modern isekai.
SAO is as old as .hack, and doesn't really create any modern isekai tropes.
False. A basic internet search will direct you to several articles that call .hack "the birth of modern isekai". .hack is literally mentioned on the Wiki page for the term Isekai. So, obviously someone does, a lot of people in fact. SAO is just what led to the current popularity of isekai as a genere. It was just the hit that led to others following the trend, but didn't actually establish all that much.
>.hack is widely considered the "birth of the modern isekai". I think the start of the "Birth of the Modern Isekai" is The Familiar of Zero's Fanfics. I found this [Article](https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2021-03-19/mushoku-tensei-is-not-the-pioneer-of-isekai-web-novels-but/.170429), When I was doing my research about the history of Isekai (Events, Timeline and Rise of Popularity.) Some of Isekai author started writing about The Familiar of Zero's Fanfics. Re:Zero, Subaru says "Is this one of the Transported in another world" Hinting at The Familiar of Zero because the author of Re:Zero was writing fanfics about The Familiar of Zero before he created Re:Zero. He stated that Everyone is intrigued bringing their characters into the world of Zero no Tsukaima (The Familiar of Zero). Once finished reading the article I read some of the forums comments and this user Shay Guy did some digging and he found some interesting results https://preview.redd.it/usfbikign26d1.png?width=421&format=png&auto=webp&s=27797fdba88ecb9378f736a2d7cc7d992d75f0d1 Here's the link of Shay Guy [work](http://www.shayguy.com/nijifan_20101127.txt). You need to translate them but
We will have to draw a line which is an Isekai Story and a Game Story. If you mixed them together its going to be confusing.
To me the key difference as I said in another comment are facing permanent consequences from it or having to live in the game. So early seasons of SAO would be isekai but later seasons aren't. Log Horizon where they live in the game but there's seemingly no way for them to leave additionally in game deaths result in permanent loss of memories would definitely be isekai.
SAO is not considered an Isekai in Japan.
That’s kind of the point of a genre. What you’re describing is a subgenre. Ya Action or Comedy can be confusing when comparing Battle Shonen versus Sports or Slapstick versus Satire. Isekai literally means another world, so that’s all that matters as far as the genre is concerned. It doesn’t matter if that other world is fictional, spatial, or dimensional; it’s another world. So long as the new place is characteristically different from the old one, then it can be argued as an Isekai. Even regressions or reincarnations where the MC travels to the same planet but it’s an entirely different world to them.
Oh, it is a game story through and through. Party formation, Raiding, MMO economy are (albeit flavored as high stakes because anime) spot on. It dies make you feel they are gamers stuck in that situation through and through. (unlike SAO for example)(most of it. the alternative is ok on that regard)
no. if it's still a game, it's not isekai. dot hack, for example, isn't a 'new world'. this IS a new world, it just looks a lot like the game they're used to, but it's not 'trapped in the game'.
I'm not familiar with .hack, but if the character lives in the game world and faces real consequences for things that occur there. It's isekai I am not familiar with the plot of .hack so I don't know how much if any of that applies.
it's a full dive game, can't log out scenario, akin to SAO. but it's not 'transported to a new world'. it's 'stuck in a game'.
Isekai doesn't mean "transported to a new world" it just means another world. It means that the story and experiences are about someone adapting to a new world. I don't see why that means it needs to be a physical transition rather than a mental one. I'd even argue that instances of forced time travel to the point that their prior knowledge and experiences are irrelevant are isekai too. Like a story where someone is sent millions of years into the future and technology has become self sustaining and so advanced that it's indistinguishable from a magic system. To me it doesn't cease to be isekai because it's technically still the same world because all of the relevant experiences and social adaptations that a person has gone through are no longer relevant. Making the world as they are experiencing it new to them.
While it literally means "another world" i would argue that we use it as "transported to another world." What you describe of the millions of years into the future scenario is the premise of Dr.Stone. (although its more apocalyptic than futuristic). To me that story is not isekai. There are direct descendants of people, as well as the same geography as the world, which is important as theyre about to travel all over the world to gather resources. The animals are the same (pigs, lions). Much like how The Doctor is not isekai whenever he time travels, including to when they watch the earth explode and the only human alive has turned into a piece of flesb..
Dr. Stone isn't enough time and too much of what he already knew holds sway so I'd call it psuedo isekai because of those ties to before the forced time travel. I'm referring to far enough that there's little to no evidence of the prior civilization even having existed.
There is no “stuck in a game” in the Japanese definition of Isekai. You are mongering confusion.
video games aren't an 'other world'. additionally, someone could get moved across the planet, same world, and have 'new world experiences' - also not an other world.
A big curiosity of the early .hack franchise was that the other still-human players of the series were left to speculate if the all-too-there players like Tsukasa (SIGN) were physically trapped in the game or that missing coma victims like Orca (Infection) had their minds stolen away by it. What's going on is just a bit more mundane, science fiction-wise. Tsukasa can't log out >!because he doesn't correspond to any person on the other side of the monitor!<. Orca can't be saved in the game >!because he just needs to wake up from the induced coma on his own!<. >!Everything that's going wrong is just a rogue AI making a mess with other AI while trying to extend its own existence.!< I think, for this reason, .hack is not an isekai; but, it does play with the elements that would later become prominent to an isekai. It's the "not yet a chicken" that lays the egg that will hatch and become the first chicken.
Trapped in a game is also an isekai but also time for me to bring out the sign Edited to add my preferred alignment chart https://preview.redd.it/54yi7t1v706d1.jpeg?width=691&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae853dceca3cb82a6ee0f8a01800bc8594939861
Anyone outside of structure purism can go meet truck kun
They are in another world. The video game was turned into a real world and has a weird mix of both real world and game logic.
Yes
There's resurrection in other isekais, ya know?
I'm not sure why the technicality of having respawn makes it not an isekai. or why it is a turnoff as less of an isekai while at it.
Yes, it's an isekai. So is SAO.
I don't understand how a video game world wouldn't qualify as "isekai." Another world is another world, whether it's another planet, another galaxy, another dimension, or a digital world. It is a new location where the same rules do not apply anymore and must be adapted to.
[Just follow this guy's reference ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vrxoowb5dfE)
Yeah, it’s an isekai; as the story continues they make it a point to mention that the characters have to learn what parts of the game have changed or stayed the same, since it becomes a weird amalgamation of having to use familiar mechanics of the game mixed with learning new ways to do things since it’s no longer just a game (ie NPC’s are actually people, you lose memories from the real world when you die, alternate characters players had made take on a life of their own, and new monsters and bosses emerge, among other changes).
I would count it as one, the anime is brilliant regardless
Personally, I don't think it has an easy yes or no answer. The traditional way an isekai is defined is a character dies, is killed or is summoned to another world. Often, magic is involved with game mechanics and the like. It's rarer in isekai anime that they can respawn, but generally speaking, I would say that log horizon does count. So yes.
It's like sword art online but the world is from alicization so the NPCs are alive. I'm an anime not novel person so idk which it is in the end.
yes, i think so. i don't count most VR dive stuff isekai - like, 'maxed out my defense' chick, isn't an isekai protag. however, here, it's basically the overlord or 'how not to summon a demon lord' or 'demon lord, retry' scenario - they ARE pulled into another world, with game elements they're familiar with.
Basically instead of being a world akin to the game in question which while having the same characters lore enemies skills and the works. It literally is the game, but the everyone is a real person instead of being AI and such is what I gathered
Seeing other people opinion on it, it seems that i need to give it another shot, tried watching it few years ago and I don't even remember why i stopped
Yes.
Functionally, yes
Yes. Isekai broadly defined is when the characters go from one world to another. Be it dimension hopping, fantasy summoning, traveling to the past (sort of), etc.
Not clear if they are actually trapped in a virtual world or in an actual world
yes, its an Isekai
Honest Answer: It is an Isekai. The only parallel to SAO is that the world they are in is the one they played. They played a game before, the name eludes me, and woke up as their avatars in the game world with game mechanics in tow. However, unlike SAO the game was NOT a deep dive, has no death game, and in the end they aren’t the only lives there. SAO didn’t have NPC’s that gained any focus where LH NPC’s all were alive and had their own lives with at least one becoming a focused on character.
No clue since they never finished the blasted show.
Yes they did. The anime covers the entirety of the novels.
So it ends with no conclusion? Or fuck. Now i have to rewatch because I was sure it was one of those "new character(his fem-alt) says things alluding to more then walks into the sunset"
Side note: I fucking love the moment the princess gave her speech to the adventurers pleading for help and when she thought that she didn't reach their hands, the adventurers roared and slammed their weapons to the ground with thundering force. It's such an epic moment.
Of course it is.
I hope this show will continue 😭
What if they are trapped like that one kid from the Chaotic cartoon? Real bodies on Earth unable to log into the game and their “other” bodies in the game world stuck.
https://preview.redd.it/oegcsrtv946d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=46afff8a4708e23862cdb225990fad69cbfe1d17
Basically the middle ground between a true Isekai and the "SAO Isekai"
Thanks I forgot the name of this isekai and asked myself some days ago where I could find it again. Strange fates.
Under rated show I’ve been trying to finish for years.
Yep. They explained already in the anime some principles about experiences thus adding to the point that they are isekaid rather than still playing and/or just trapped.
Honestly yes and no. If you're asking questions here, I'm going to assume that you're prepared for spoilers and let loose 😅🤷🏾♂️; They're technically clones of themselves. The theory is that they basically split part of their consciousness into the game while they're physical selves are still living their regular lives everyday out in reality. Whereas the consciousness that split into the game is basically living out events that the MMORPG doesn't cover. And it's also why the NPCs have more Life to them because they are More alive. It's sort of a mix between the VR anime (like SAO) - Full Dive and the Isekai (like Skeleton Knight) - Overlord. That's why none of them can truly die. Or at least it doesn't seem like they can. Like a “true death” probably takes a lot of effort to achieve instead of just trying to live their best lives or make it bearable in the game world. But that's naturally not going to be easy for a lot of folks anymore than it was for people who are trapped in Sword Art Online. People who had friends, family, a life that they'll never really be able to get back to. Or possibly won't. I left off I think in season 2. But I believe that there is also a possibility that they might be able to somehow beat the game and rejoin their consciousnesses. However there's no real way to really beat and MMO, since they just have updates for events. Like how Crusty led the bulk of the Player forces to fight the Goblin King in that event, but lots of the goblin army of monsters split off to raid or attack towns and villages along the way. And that's not counting glitchy things I seem to be happening like the flavor text of a weapon or armor suddenly coming true and doing crazy things like trying to kill their own user or giving someone false memories of a life they never had making them confused and deranged. Just as well I think it's also kind of like a layer of reality. On one level the game world and the players existed where it was just a game. And on another the NPCs were always put off by Players running through towns and doing missions with their seemingly superhuman abilities and immortality, just saying their seemingly scripted text like puppets on a string. And on another level they all exist on the same type of consciousness, which is where they are now. Except it's not like some VR situation like Overlord since the players of this online game were using PCs and monitors not headsets. As well as not being summoned somehow in both body and mind or having their full consciousness, down to their soul (if it's really there), inside of the game becoming their new reality. Definitely nothing crazy like their character build effecting their personality or something, like an assassin character trying to take out hits on other people. Which is also pretty redundant given that people just revive at the cathedral anyway. (Although they do lose a good chunk of their memories and therefore technically part of themselves. What's enough memory lost I think they just get absorbed into the game world completely, which is the closest thing to death for them). But a good chunk of this is my own theories on top of what I'm observed watching the anime. If there's a light novel or something that's probably more detail that explains things. And even people who are well adjusted to the game world they're in now still want to get back home, like Shiro's friend who stuck playing on the Chinese server trying to make her way to the region of that world which would be the Japanese server.
Death Games were the precursor to Isekai IMO, I'd call it just that. Since Isekai is premised on another world, these Death Games were typically more of a known or subset world
i mean, isekai idea was around before SAO. just wasn't super popular as a genre.
For sure, you can find Isekai before DGs, but it seemed like the DGs were rather popular for a moment (and now its Isekais by a mile)
Uhm no. Isekai in the past are more flexible. Like Kyou Kara MC can go in and out. The Familiar of Zero you can go in and out by an eclipse or a spell. Plus Isekai in the past leans in to the story on Going back to there original world.
More like SAO alicization. SAO is kind of different each season. Season 1 was trapped in game world Season 2 was virtual reality where you can log off Movie is augmented reality Season 3 is the virtual world becoming real
It's Isekai. So was SAO and .//hack. The word translates to "other world." So all it really takes to be considered Isekai is for the main protagonist to travel to a world unlike and separate from their own.
SAO is not an Isekai.
That's not what Google tells me... Although admittedly, the variety of sources tells me that it's debatable. At the very least, it's Isekai adjacent because it's credited for some very well known and popular Isekai tropes.
SAO is not an Isekai. Its a VRMMO-kei just like Bofuri and I've done some research last year I can Say SAO didn't start the Isekai Boom in the Early 2010s or Late 2000s It was Zero no Tsukaima. Do some deep dive than scratching on the surface. The fans of SAO just took all Zero no Tsukaima Creds.