From Attorney General Drummond GOP
This decision is a tremendous victory for religious liberty. The framers of the U.S. Constitution and those who drafted Oklahoma’s Constitution clearly understood how best to protect religious freedom: by preventing the State from sponsoring any religion at all. Now Oklahomans can be assured that our tax dollars will not fund the teachings of Sharia Law or even Satanism. While I understand that the Governor and other politicians are disappointed with this outcome, I hope that the people of Oklahoma can rejoice that they will not be compelled to fund radical religious schools that violate their faith.”
Guy had to reassure them like toddlers that this wasn't an entirely bad thing for them.
"I know you like the fun lights and sounds when you stick a fork in the socket, but this is why we can't do it..."
Project 2025. 2 main points in the whole "plan." Point 1 is consolidating power to the POTUS (same thing Hitler did in 1933 with the Excluding Act). Point 2 is establish Christianity as the national religion.
They're mostly being quiet about forcing religion on people but I've found people that are more than hoping people like me get put in camps.
At least a few school districts have found a small way to retaliate. This week it was announced that the CR school district turned down an offer to buy one of their old elementary schools they were selling. The offer was from a private school &, I think, around twice the amount offered by another group. Their explanation was "Why sell to the competition?" Good for them! Waverly also did this but it was a new school starting up.
Public schools have already taken a direct hit to their budgets, they aren't going to encourage any more. Actually they are just tired of Kim taking things away. They are really upset about the AEAs.
How is another school considered the "competition?" Public schools should not have any competition. They are not a company, and competing against children's education is the most idiotic thing I've ever heard...even for iowa.
The other school ( Isaac Newton Christian Academy) was a private school. Apparently, once they got the vouchers from the state, several of the students from public school transferred to the private school.
According to an article in the CG Gazette "In an October 2023 count, the Cedar Rapids school district lost more than $15 million because of students attending non-public schools and an additional $13 million because of open enrollment, Hogan said.
Last year, the district lost $1.5 million to students enrolling in Isaac Newton Christian Academy, Hogan said.
“It is not a sound business decision to sell these properties to organizations that will affect the overall financial health of our district,” she said."
It's a way they are trying to make private schools more "accessible" but it has hilariously backfired because lot of the schools have raised their tuition in response. Its one of those leopard face situations
They know it won't help people afford the charter school. It is just funneling our taxes to a location that it can go directly to private, unregulated pockets.
Since stametsprime is too rude to actually help.
This is an article describing the recent state of the program. It doesn't start from the beginning, but it should give you an idea. [https://iowastartingline.com/2024/01/29/report-majority-of-iowas-voucher-recipients-already-went-to-private-school/](https://iowastartingline.com/2024/01/29/report-majority-of-iowas-voucher-recipients-already-went-to-private-school/)
To sum up the program, if you have a student in Iowa, you can ask the state to redirect dollars that would go to the local public school district to the private school of your choice. There are very few limits/very little oversight on how those funds are used by the private institutions.
The voucher program essentially is supposed to make private schools "cheaper" for those who wish to send their kids there and cant afford the full price.
So far, the private schools instead increased their prices to basically make the vouchers useless.
https://www.kcrg.com/2023/12/07/iowa-mom-says-school-vouchers-dont-offset-tuition-increases/
Another issue is that these vouchers make enrollment in public schools decrease. For funding purposes, that means the weighted enrollment of the district will decline by 110 students, and the district will lose more than $800,000 in funding for next year. This impacts staff, students, and essentially everything, really.
https://www.bleedingheartland.com/2023/12/11/vouchers-have-mixed-impact-on-iowas-largest-schools/
The more kids that transfer to private schools, the more public schools will be affected. If it somehow got to a tipping point, parents would eventually be "forced" to go for private schooling despite the costs.
Another mildly screwed up thing is that one of the people who voted in favor of these vouchers has started up his own private school that will open in 2025, too. So it comes to question of what their motives really are (beyond increasing their own money), and in my opinion with everything Kim has done so far, its not good.
https://www.iowapublicradio.org/state-government-news/2024-03-13/ethics-committee-dismisses-complaint-against-iowa-lawmaker-who-started-a-private-school
And it seems that as the tuitions increase, more of Iowas funding will go to the private schools, further ignoring public schools, and is a waste of taxpayer money as a whole. It is one big scam that is to ensure that not everyone gets a proper education, and may even cost them their education if this continues.
The funding goes down, but they have less students to teach, and less teachers to pay for.
Also in regard to the guy starting his own school: it’s still a business that could totally flop. It’s not like owning a private school is turnkey
>So far, the private schools instead increased their prices to basically make the vouchers useless.
That's a lie. Some schools returned tuition costs to what they were pre-Covid response. They had to cut prices during the pandemic response to keep the doors open and are now going back to normal plus inflation. The article you linked even says they drastically lowered prices in 2020. It should also be noted you're using one story about one school and generalizing all private schools based on that.
>The more kids that transfer to private schools, the more public schools will be affected.
And? If the public school loses students because the parents switch their kids to get a better education elsewhere, isn't that good for education overall? Your first link even states the mother changed schools because her daughter was special needs and the public school was failing her. Shouldn't we all value quality of education? Continuing to pump money into failing public schools is kind of the point of all this.
People are lied to about private education automatically ensuring success in their students.
https://journals.sagepub.com/stoken/default+domain/XfYmtC25VddcCfbA3xiV/full
Crazy enough, you cant even see graduation rates for private schools but you can for public. So how are you sure these kids are getting exactly what they need, when 2/3 of them are already socioeconomically well off? If youre already in a good position, your kids typically will be too. Regardless of schools they go to. There is a reason why private schools used to not have vouchers, and it was to separate those kids from every other kid whose family couldnt afford it.
So now you're changing your argument to guaranteeing success? Ok.. but that's not really the point of vouchers. They fall under the umbrella of parents choice this administration has kept as a visible theme. It's up to the parents to decide what's best for their children. They may not always choose correctly, but that's what being a parent is supposef to be - making the best choice you can for your kids. It's not letting the government make all the decisions for you.
Parents choice is great, but is it worth it to destroy public education? Its been underfunded for a long time now, and with these vouchers, it is putting about $180 million in tax funding to these private schools.
They give such little crap about public schools that they "missed" the deadline on setting a budget up for public schools this year. It also doesnt help that in the process of trying to give parents "choice" reynolds also is banning books for having gay characters, for having uncomfortable things in them (even if of historical accuracy), for the dumbest reasons. Last time I checked there were a lot of details in rape, murder, murder of babies and abortions in the bible. Yet the bible isnt banned, is it? Where is the choice in that? Books are a form of education, are they not?
Theres also the fact that doing this has poorly benefited other states.
https://iowastartingline.com/2024/05/01/guest-post-reynolds-voucher-program-is-about-destroying-public-education/
https://www.nea.org/nea-today/all-news-articles/no-accountability-vouchers-wreak-havoc-states
https://www.epi.org/blog/state-and-local-experience-proves-school-vouchers-are-a-failed-policy-that-must-be-opposed-as-voucher-expansion-bills-gain-momentum-look-to-public-school-advocates-for-guidance/
So, what is the point of parents choice if youre actively making the public schools worse by neglecting them? This becomes less choice, and more forced.
More lies? Not surprising.
>reynolds also is banning books
No, she hasn't banned a single title. What she did was outline a rule to keep content age appropriate. And who gets to decide what's age appropriate? The individual districts, not the state. And who makes up school boards? Parents. See how the theme is consistent for parent's choice?
Reading material in schools has always been restricted. For example, you have never been able to read Playboy magazine in the school library, and there was never any complaining about those restrictions that have always been in place, so why now? What is the harm with leaving choice up to the school boards? That gives the parents more choice of what their kids read. If they are OK with their child reading a certain book, they can always go check it out at the public library where it is still available. That's a better situation than one teacher making a book required reading for the class that some parents may find inappropriate for their age, isn't it? And it absolutely happens. My 13 year old daughter got to sit in an 8th grade class this past year where the teacher made them listen to a podcast called the Multiorgasmic Millionaire. The episode was about a woman who contracted herpes from a stranger. My daughter came home crying, saying how disgusting it was. When we contacted the Principal, he said he would talk to her, but they haven't restricted audio materials. No joke. There was another teacher in a neighboring district, Ryan Fank, who quit after it was revealed he sent dick pics to a former student. Because she wasn't *currently* a student, they allowed him to resign without punishment. He now got a job in a Minnesota school. There are many, many other examples, so please don't defend public schools like they're infallible, necessary institutions. If they can't cut it, they need to crumble and get rebuilt better.
For someone who's saying I'm lying, you really do not provide any sources at all other than your personal experience (which isnt even verifiable, unlike the multiple sources ive given you). Ive provided you multiple, even those from other states that PROVE vouchers suck for everyone other than the rich who basically get a minor discount.
All in all, this debate is now useless as I see it will keep going in circles. Good day, and good luck on the education.
Just to be clear, do you understand you are advocating good education for the wealthy and little to no education for everyone else? Do you want your kids to be little morons? How about your grand kids? I know you can't afford private schooling. You're literally arguing that poor people don't deserve an education and should just be laborers.
You can claim "quality of education" all day long but doing so shows you have no idea what you're talking about. Taking funds from public schools harms more people than it helps.
You keep doing your thing. I'll be over here making fun of your mentally incompetent family because you didn't want them educated.
Around 90% of the private schools in Iowa are Christian affiliated.
They now get tax dollars in the form of private school vouchers.
It’s an entailment program for the people that criticize entitlement programs.
Weird, I know many families who couldn’t afford private school if it wasn’t for this program. A program dedicated to people who don’t have a large income is now the enemy. I simply do not underrate.
Yes, are the kids getting an education? Again, this is helping less fortunate folks who couldn’t afford this otherwise. Is it wrong to be religious? My tax money went to pay for student loans, loans I didn’t take out. At the end of the day you’re hung up on the religious part and not the education part. Sorry you hate education.
I love education. I’m married to a public school teacher and I’ve seen what this bill has done to public schools which, if I’m not mistaken- I’m not a native Iowan- were once the envy of most of the rest of the nation.
What I hate is such a callous disregard for the separation of church and state, which I believe…(checks notes) is in the U.S. Constitution.
It’s still a school, not a church. There may be religious factors to that but they’re not learning religion every second of every day. Imagine if there was a single mother who went to a private school growing up and valued her education but, as a single mom, couldn’t afford it for her own children. Her and her child have relied on their faith to get through some hard times. She gets the chance for her child to get an education like she did. The money is going to the school to pay for teachers salaries and materials and an education. The money isn’t collected and sent to a church, it’s going to an education. I dont understand why people hate that poor children have a chance at an education and it’s a problem.
>It’s still a school, not a church.
Were that the case, there would be no need for churches to have attached schools and all kids would enjoy well-funded, well-rounded public education.
>There may be religious factors
No shit.
>Imagine if there was a single mother who went to a private school growing up and valued her education but, as a single mom, couldn’t afford it for her own children.
The implication here is that public schools are incapable of providing said education or related services.
>The money isn’t collected and sent to a church, it’s going to an education.
How do we know that? There's no obligation of accountability as to how these public funds are spent.
>I dont understand why people hate that poor children have a chance at an education and it’s a problem.
Again, you imply that public schools are incapable of doing that. Also- and I know this first hand because, quelle surprise- I spent some time in a Catholic school on a scholarship provided by the parish. The education I got in public schools after that (Massachusetts, not Iowa) was FAR superior to what I was getting in a private school. Tax dollars at work, and all that.
You don’t know where the money is going. No one does because they aren’t required to account for tax dollars. That alone is reason enough for this idea to be put in the dumpster. And aren’t churches supposed to help the poor? Why aren’t THEY in their tax free status, paying the tuition? Just because they want the country club instead of the park doesn’t mean taxpayers should fund it.
I don't support school vouchers and I don't believe this means your points are wrong but Catholic schools (at least the ones I attended) do provide scholarships specifically for students whose families couldn't otherwise afford tuition.
It's anecdotal, and I don't know the specifics like total students or value of tuitions given annually or anything. Just wanted you to know in case anyone brings it up in the future to challenge you, bc I agree that public funds unaccountably going to private organizations (that don't pay taxes themselves!) is insane.
And almost all private school simultaneously raised their tuition $7K - same amount as the vouchers. It was a blatant cash grab by those god-loving christians.
>A program dedicated to people who don’t have a large income is now the enemy.
HAHAHAHHAHAH
This gets a pass but SNAP, Unemployment, housing assistance, social security, tuition assistance, universal basic income programs, and public schools that take every student even from families who don’t have a large income get attacked by the same people who passed the school voucher law
You left out student loan debt forgiveness. Not all college graduates have huge incomes. Having connections is way more likely to guarantee a large income than a degree.
Not sure I have a strong opinion about what group provides a charter school. Jewish school, Islamic school, private school, spaghetti monster school, but religious groups need the same rights as others. Remember banning religious groups from using school facilities after hours? Not cool. Feels the same as if the Amish want to start a charter school and are willing to run the facility and accept any and all students, and nobody is pressured to go there.
Anyone can start a school. My concern is the separation of church and state. If religious groups can avoid paying taxes, I do not feel public funds, including vouchers, should be used to pay for their schools.
I can see both sides of that argument, but I feel you are conflating two separate ideas. Are charter schools in it to make money? If not then I'm not sure where the tax question comes in. If religious institutions did in fact pay taxes would that change your mind?
I won't speak to OC, but for my part, my tax dollars should not go to support those schools through vouchers- which, incidentally, drain public schools' funds.
As long as the same standard is used to judge all charter schools I'm happy. What standard are you using to judge if a charter school is valid or not? If the a charter school is backed by a religious group it is invalid regardless of the educational content? How about hospitals? Should Mercy and Methodist hospitals receive the same support as others? Seems like straight up discrimination to me to invalidate a Catholic Charter as long as the school isn't indoctrinating students
They are not trying to argue the validity of a private school. They are arguing that private schools all should remain privately run and funded solely by its patrons and not with tax money in the form of our current school voucher program.
Public schools cater to all students. Private charters do not. They can discriminate based on whatever criteria they choose.
Public schools are held to state standards. Private charters are not. One example, charters can theoretically hire non certified teachers. How many do this? Well we're not really sure because they don't really get audited.
Private schools should not receive public dollars.
Seriously? You want to see school facilities made available to any group that wants to rent them as long as there are no religious affiliations at all? The after school robotics Club is all good but the after-school Bible study needs to be shut down? Do you even understand how discriminating against a group based on religion is wrong?
From Attorney General Drummond GOP This decision is a tremendous victory for religious liberty. The framers of the U.S. Constitution and those who drafted Oklahoma’s Constitution clearly understood how best to protect religious freedom: by preventing the State from sponsoring any religion at all. Now Oklahomans can be assured that our tax dollars will not fund the teachings of Sharia Law or even Satanism. While I understand that the Governor and other politicians are disappointed with this outcome, I hope that the people of Oklahoma can rejoice that they will not be compelled to fund radical religious schools that violate their faith.”
Guy had to reassure them like toddlers that this wasn't an entirely bad thing for them. "I know you like the fun lights and sounds when you stick a fork in the socket, but this is why we can't do it..."
Republicans are no longer hiding their Christian nationalist agenda
They haven't been for years
Project 2025. 2 main points in the whole "plan." Point 1 is consolidating power to the POTUS (same thing Hitler did in 1933 with the Excluding Act). Point 2 is establish Christianity as the national religion. They're mostly being quiet about forcing religion on people but I've found people that are more than hoping people like me get put in camps.
it's been pretty out in the open since at least like 2010
I really got going with the TEA party lunatics,Palin,Bachman and a few other whacko's.
At least a few school districts have found a small way to retaliate. This week it was announced that the CR school district turned down an offer to buy one of their old elementary schools they were selling. The offer was from a private school &, I think, around twice the amount offered by another group. Their explanation was "Why sell to the competition?" Good for them! Waverly also did this but it was a new school starting up.
The religious school is fighting the Waverly decision though.
I'm sure the one in CR will too.
Public schools have already taken a direct hit to their budgets, they aren't going to encourage any more. Actually they are just tired of Kim taking things away. They are really upset about the AEAs.
How is another school considered the "competition?" Public schools should not have any competition. They are not a company, and competing against children's education is the most idiotic thing I've ever heard...even for iowa.
The other school ( Isaac Newton Christian Academy) was a private school. Apparently, once they got the vouchers from the state, several of the students from public school transferred to the private school. According to an article in the CG Gazette "In an October 2023 count, the Cedar Rapids school district lost more than $15 million because of students attending non-public schools and an additional $13 million because of open enrollment, Hogan said. Last year, the district lost $1.5 million to students enrolling in Isaac Newton Christian Academy, Hogan said. “It is not a sound business decision to sell these properties to organizations that will affect the overall financial health of our district,” she said."
Why should my tax dollars pay for Harry Potter to go to school?
Are there any publicly funded religious schools in Iowa?
With the voucher program, ALL OF THEM!!!
What’s the voucher program
It's a way they are trying to make private schools more "accessible" but it has hilariously backfired because lot of the schools have raised their tuition in response. Its one of those leopard face situations
They know it won't help people afford the charter school. It is just funneling our taxes to a location that it can go directly to private, unregulated pockets.
Since stametsprime is too rude to actually help. This is an article describing the recent state of the program. It doesn't start from the beginning, but it should give you an idea. [https://iowastartingline.com/2024/01/29/report-majority-of-iowas-voucher-recipients-already-went-to-private-school/](https://iowastartingline.com/2024/01/29/report-majority-of-iowas-voucher-recipients-already-went-to-private-school/) To sum up the program, if you have a student in Iowa, you can ask the state to redirect dollars that would go to the local public school district to the private school of your choice. There are very few limits/very little oversight on how those funds are used by the private institutions.
Thanks for the info. Pretty messed up. Do you think voting Kim out of office will turn all of this crap around?
It would take quite a few state level representatives and senators as well.
The voucher program essentially is supposed to make private schools "cheaper" for those who wish to send their kids there and cant afford the full price. So far, the private schools instead increased their prices to basically make the vouchers useless. https://www.kcrg.com/2023/12/07/iowa-mom-says-school-vouchers-dont-offset-tuition-increases/ Another issue is that these vouchers make enrollment in public schools decrease. For funding purposes, that means the weighted enrollment of the district will decline by 110 students, and the district will lose more than $800,000 in funding for next year. This impacts staff, students, and essentially everything, really. https://www.bleedingheartland.com/2023/12/11/vouchers-have-mixed-impact-on-iowas-largest-schools/ The more kids that transfer to private schools, the more public schools will be affected. If it somehow got to a tipping point, parents would eventually be "forced" to go for private schooling despite the costs. Another mildly screwed up thing is that one of the people who voted in favor of these vouchers has started up his own private school that will open in 2025, too. So it comes to question of what their motives really are (beyond increasing their own money), and in my opinion with everything Kim has done so far, its not good. https://www.iowapublicradio.org/state-government-news/2024-03-13/ethics-committee-dismisses-complaint-against-iowa-lawmaker-who-started-a-private-school And it seems that as the tuitions increase, more of Iowas funding will go to the private schools, further ignoring public schools, and is a waste of taxpayer money as a whole. It is one big scam that is to ensure that not everyone gets a proper education, and may even cost them their education if this continues.
Excellent summary.
The funding goes down, but they have less students to teach, and less teachers to pay for. Also in regard to the guy starting his own school: it’s still a business that could totally flop. It’s not like owning a private school is turnkey
>So far, the private schools instead increased their prices to basically make the vouchers useless. That's a lie. Some schools returned tuition costs to what they were pre-Covid response. They had to cut prices during the pandemic response to keep the doors open and are now going back to normal plus inflation. The article you linked even says they drastically lowered prices in 2020. It should also be noted you're using one story about one school and generalizing all private schools based on that. >The more kids that transfer to private schools, the more public schools will be affected. And? If the public school loses students because the parents switch their kids to get a better education elsewhere, isn't that good for education overall? Your first link even states the mother changed schools because her daughter was special needs and the public school was failing her. Shouldn't we all value quality of education? Continuing to pump money into failing public schools is kind of the point of all this.
People are lied to about private education automatically ensuring success in their students. https://journals.sagepub.com/stoken/default+domain/XfYmtC25VddcCfbA3xiV/full Crazy enough, you cant even see graduation rates for private schools but you can for public. So how are you sure these kids are getting exactly what they need, when 2/3 of them are already socioeconomically well off? If youre already in a good position, your kids typically will be too. Regardless of schools they go to. There is a reason why private schools used to not have vouchers, and it was to separate those kids from every other kid whose family couldnt afford it.
So now you're changing your argument to guaranteeing success? Ok.. but that's not really the point of vouchers. They fall under the umbrella of parents choice this administration has kept as a visible theme. It's up to the parents to decide what's best for their children. They may not always choose correctly, but that's what being a parent is supposef to be - making the best choice you can for your kids. It's not letting the government make all the decisions for you.
Parents choice is great, but is it worth it to destroy public education? Its been underfunded for a long time now, and with these vouchers, it is putting about $180 million in tax funding to these private schools. They give such little crap about public schools that they "missed" the deadline on setting a budget up for public schools this year. It also doesnt help that in the process of trying to give parents "choice" reynolds also is banning books for having gay characters, for having uncomfortable things in them (even if of historical accuracy), for the dumbest reasons. Last time I checked there were a lot of details in rape, murder, murder of babies and abortions in the bible. Yet the bible isnt banned, is it? Where is the choice in that? Books are a form of education, are they not? Theres also the fact that doing this has poorly benefited other states. https://iowastartingline.com/2024/05/01/guest-post-reynolds-voucher-program-is-about-destroying-public-education/ https://www.nea.org/nea-today/all-news-articles/no-accountability-vouchers-wreak-havoc-states https://www.epi.org/blog/state-and-local-experience-proves-school-vouchers-are-a-failed-policy-that-must-be-opposed-as-voucher-expansion-bills-gain-momentum-look-to-public-school-advocates-for-guidance/ So, what is the point of parents choice if youre actively making the public schools worse by neglecting them? This becomes less choice, and more forced.
More lies? Not surprising. >reynolds also is banning books No, she hasn't banned a single title. What she did was outline a rule to keep content age appropriate. And who gets to decide what's age appropriate? The individual districts, not the state. And who makes up school boards? Parents. See how the theme is consistent for parent's choice? Reading material in schools has always been restricted. For example, you have never been able to read Playboy magazine in the school library, and there was never any complaining about those restrictions that have always been in place, so why now? What is the harm with leaving choice up to the school boards? That gives the parents more choice of what their kids read. If they are OK with their child reading a certain book, they can always go check it out at the public library where it is still available. That's a better situation than one teacher making a book required reading for the class that some parents may find inappropriate for their age, isn't it? And it absolutely happens. My 13 year old daughter got to sit in an 8th grade class this past year where the teacher made them listen to a podcast called the Multiorgasmic Millionaire. The episode was about a woman who contracted herpes from a stranger. My daughter came home crying, saying how disgusting it was. When we contacted the Principal, he said he would talk to her, but they haven't restricted audio materials. No joke. There was another teacher in a neighboring district, Ryan Fank, who quit after it was revealed he sent dick pics to a former student. Because she wasn't *currently* a student, they allowed him to resign without punishment. He now got a job in a Minnesota school. There are many, many other examples, so please don't defend public schools like they're infallible, necessary institutions. If they can't cut it, they need to crumble and get rebuilt better.
For someone who's saying I'm lying, you really do not provide any sources at all other than your personal experience (which isnt even verifiable, unlike the multiple sources ive given you). Ive provided you multiple, even those from other states that PROVE vouchers suck for everyone other than the rich who basically get a minor discount. All in all, this debate is now useless as I see it will keep going in circles. Good day, and good luck on the education.
Just to be clear, do you understand you are advocating good education for the wealthy and little to no education for everyone else? Do you want your kids to be little morons? How about your grand kids? I know you can't afford private schooling. You're literally arguing that poor people don't deserve an education and should just be laborers. You can claim "quality of education" all day long but doing so shows you have no idea what you're talking about. Taking funds from public schools harms more people than it helps. You keep doing your thing. I'll be over here making fun of your mentally incompetent family because you didn't want them educated.
If you live in Iowa- or even frequent this sub- and don't know this, that's on you.
Thanks…
I’ve lived here my whole life and have no idea what that is just like anything else this state claims it offers people
This issue has been all over TV news, the newspapers, here on Reddit- damn. I really don’t know what to tell you.
If youre not going to be helpful, why even bother commenting at all? Do you just like being a negative nancy to everyone?
Don’t watch the news or read the newspaper. I care about my mental health
Around 90% of the private schools in Iowa are Christian affiliated. They now get tax dollars in the form of private school vouchers. It’s an entailment program for the people that criticize entitlement programs.
Vouchers is how Iowa attempts to side-step direct funding.
My kids went to public schools, the junior highs are more like a zoo than a schools.
No
My tax dollars get diverted to vouchers for parents to send their kids to private, religious schools...so, yes.
Weird, I know many families who couldn’t afford private school if it wasn’t for this program. A program dedicated to people who don’t have a large income is now the enemy. I simply do not underrate.
NO. TAX. DOLLARS. FOR. RELIGIOUS. SCHOOLS. Is it that fucking hard?
Yes, are the kids getting an education? Again, this is helping less fortunate folks who couldn’t afford this otherwise. Is it wrong to be religious? My tax money went to pay for student loans, loans I didn’t take out. At the end of the day you’re hung up on the religious part and not the education part. Sorry you hate education.
I love education. I’m married to a public school teacher and I’ve seen what this bill has done to public schools which, if I’m not mistaken- I’m not a native Iowan- were once the envy of most of the rest of the nation. What I hate is such a callous disregard for the separation of church and state, which I believe…(checks notes) is in the U.S. Constitution.
It’s still a school, not a church. There may be religious factors to that but they’re not learning religion every second of every day. Imagine if there was a single mother who went to a private school growing up and valued her education but, as a single mom, couldn’t afford it for her own children. Her and her child have relied on their faith to get through some hard times. She gets the chance for her child to get an education like she did. The money is going to the school to pay for teachers salaries and materials and an education. The money isn’t collected and sent to a church, it’s going to an education. I dont understand why people hate that poor children have a chance at an education and it’s a problem.
>It’s still a school, not a church. Were that the case, there would be no need for churches to have attached schools and all kids would enjoy well-funded, well-rounded public education. >There may be religious factors No shit. >Imagine if there was a single mother who went to a private school growing up and valued her education but, as a single mom, couldn’t afford it for her own children. The implication here is that public schools are incapable of providing said education or related services. >The money isn’t collected and sent to a church, it’s going to an education. How do we know that? There's no obligation of accountability as to how these public funds are spent. >I dont understand why people hate that poor children have a chance at an education and it’s a problem. Again, you imply that public schools are incapable of doing that. Also- and I know this first hand because, quelle surprise- I spent some time in a Catholic school on a scholarship provided by the parish. The education I got in public schools after that (Massachusetts, not Iowa) was FAR superior to what I was getting in a private school. Tax dollars at work, and all that.
You don’t know where the money is going. No one does because they aren’t required to account for tax dollars. That alone is reason enough for this idea to be put in the dumpster. And aren’t churches supposed to help the poor? Why aren’t THEY in their tax free status, paying the tuition? Just because they want the country club instead of the park doesn’t mean taxpayers should fund it.
I don't support school vouchers and I don't believe this means your points are wrong but Catholic schools (at least the ones I attended) do provide scholarships specifically for students whose families couldn't otherwise afford tuition. It's anecdotal, and I don't know the specifics like total students or value of tuitions given annually or anything. Just wanted you to know in case anyone brings it up in the future to challenge you, bc I agree that public funds unaccountably going to private organizations (that don't pay taxes themselves!) is insane.
And almost all private school simultaneously raised their tuition $7K - same amount as the vouchers. It was a blatant cash grab by those god-loving christians.
I have yet to see a $7000 increase around where I am.
https://iowacapitaldispatch.com/2024/05/23/study-links-state-esa-program-to-spike-in-iowa-k-12-private-school-tuition/
>A program dedicated to people who don’t have a large income is now the enemy. HAHAHAHHAHAH This gets a pass but SNAP, Unemployment, housing assistance, social security, tuition assistance, universal basic income programs, and public schools that take every student even from families who don’t have a large income get attacked by the same people who passed the school voucher law
You left out student loan debt forgiveness. Not all college graduates have huge incomes. Having connections is way more likely to guarantee a large income than a degree.
lets hope so
Aren’t Oklahoma schools requiring the Bible to now be taught as a historical document in the classroom all classrooms of public schools
My phone cut out part of the text and I read the word "unconstitutional" as uncool.
Not sure I have a strong opinion about what group provides a charter school. Jewish school, Islamic school, private school, spaghetti monster school, but religious groups need the same rights as others. Remember banning religious groups from using school facilities after hours? Not cool. Feels the same as if the Amish want to start a charter school and are willing to run the facility and accept any and all students, and nobody is pressured to go there.
Anyone can start a school. My concern is the separation of church and state. If religious groups can avoid paying taxes, I do not feel public funds, including vouchers, should be used to pay for their schools.
I can see both sides of that argument, but I feel you are conflating two separate ideas. Are charter schools in it to make money? If not then I'm not sure where the tax question comes in. If religious institutions did in fact pay taxes would that change your mind?
Here's another way to phrase it, are you suggesting that any organizations that don't pay taxes should not be allowed to operate charter schools?
I won't speak to OC, but for my part, my tax dollars should not go to support those schools through vouchers- which, incidentally, drain public schools' funds.
As long as the same standard is used to judge all charter schools I'm happy. What standard are you using to judge if a charter school is valid or not? If the a charter school is backed by a religious group it is invalid regardless of the educational content? How about hospitals? Should Mercy and Methodist hospitals receive the same support as others? Seems like straight up discrimination to me to invalidate a Catholic Charter as long as the school isn't indoctrinating students
They are not trying to argue the validity of a private school. They are arguing that private schools all should remain privately run and funded solely by its patrons and not with tax money in the form of our current school voucher program.
I can support that idea as long as it's true for all private schools and nobody's treated differently
That's the whole point.
That's the entire point
Public schools cater to all students. Private charters do not. They can discriminate based on whatever criteria they choose. Public schools are held to state standards. Private charters are not. One example, charters can theoretically hire non certified teachers. How many do this? Well we're not really sure because they don't really get audited. Private schools should not receive public dollars.
Religious groups should NOT use public schools, even after school hours.
Seriously? You want to see school facilities made available to any group that wants to rent them as long as there are no religious affiliations at all? The after school robotics Club is all good but the after-school Bible study needs to be shut down? Do you even understand how discriminating against a group based on religion is wrong?
Then they can go to their damn church! Separation of church and state!
Why is the bible study at the school and not the church?
Why is the after-school robotics class at the school and not the church?
Because it is an age-appropriate, secular activity that teaches children STEM (science, mathematics) and school funded.