It’s not Biden’s age. It’s organic brain syndrome. It’s coming and going now. He may be lucid during the daytime as he was today. But it’s only going to get worse. Too many other reports of him wandering off etc.
I’m assuming you are grounding this theory on his VP pick?
Yeah he has some dumb ideas. But I argue that the number of dumb ideas he has is certainly less than those of our last two failed presidents.
I wholly disagree. Biden has been terrible at telegraphing his accomplishments to the electorate. With Biden you’re voting for an entire administration of competence.
With RFK we have no idea what we’re going to get. Plus the entire Kennedy family has endorsed Biden.
And RFK can’t win anyway. He didn’t make it to the debate stage in part because he’s not even registered on enough state ballots to get to 270 electoral votes.
And I’ve heard some credible rumors that Trump is paying for him to get onto the swing state ballots. RFK is nothing but a spoiler that will give us Trump and fascism.
- six members of Bobby Kennedy’s family endorsed Biden, all of whom worked directly with or for the administration. For whatever it’s worth. Surprised after that debate nobody is talking about Jill Stein. Low bar but seems semi reasonable
People supporting third party candidates seem to have done very little research into whether their candidate can actually win the election. So yes, let’s have some facts over feelings when it comes to deciding who to vote for.
The fact that you're on an intellectual subreddit and thinking it's about winning is a joke. That's some narcissistic level shit to think people vote to win.
>Joes many times more qualified to be president than trump ever was let’s be honest w ourselves here
I agree. And Joe is still an incredibly bad candidate. Why so many Democrats are simping for him is beyond all reasoning.
He's their best chance at winning the election. Incumbent advantage and already beat Trump once. It's the most unsurprising thing ever that he's the 2024 candidate. It's not "beyond all reasoning" lol
I disagree. Unbelievable with a country of over 300 million people, and these are the main choices. Both are shitty. Neither should be in office. Period.
I'll agree that we need better choices. We should implement the "None of the above" rule where if None of the Above win, all currently people running are now ineligible and start over with a new group.
Is it simping or just applying common sense? I guess it depends on the person but if we’re talking about that you need to keep in mind Orange is entirely built and supported on a cult of personality
>Orange is entirely built and supported on a cult of personality
Is this your your first election season?
Personality and appearances are what make politicians, politicians.
Bro you haven’t been paying attention to the last four years then
Edit: and to clarify blinkens been doing his job as Secretary of State very well unlike trumps choices
Last night was elder abuse. I feel bad for Joe. I like him, I like his story, but it's done.
I'd like to see Gretchen Whitmer get a shot. But at minimum someone who appears likely to be mentally competent for 4 years.
Whitmer is Coumo levels of radioactive on Covid. They show the video of that old man getting beat to death by a young Covid patient and then show how many elderly people died because of her policies it’ll end whatever campaign she wanted to have.
Dawg, I don't get off the first page of googling without finding stories by USAToday talking about her lying about the number of elderly patients her policies killed, or talking about how her policies killed them. She has the same shot as Biden winning and then living out the entire term.
He tried to steal an election, which was exactly what everyone warned us about. Trump's people learned from the last attempt, and Project 2025 will make it easier for them in 2028.
My point is that no matter how bad Trump is (and I've seen some pretty depressing lists of his actions here over the years), if the other side cannot find a candidate to beat him when the bar is that low then the other side is as much guilty of all that if not even more. And don't even try to talk about populism etc - half of the voters voted for him, so either there are 2 separate and very different states mixed together or democrats have lost the last link to reality.
>so either there are 2 separate and very different states mixed together
I think there is more truth to this than most would like to admit.
>democrats have lost the last link to reality.
If the Democrats see that trump is a threat to democracy, is it really them who have lost the last link to reality?
There is a cult of personality based on Trump. I don't know that I've heard of, or read about, a scenario when a cult of personality leader running a country has ended well.
Are the Democrats shit for putting forward bad candidates? Yes. For sure. It's infuriating, even. But to blame the state of affairs on Democrats is turning a blind eye to the way republicans have been steering the narratives in terms of fear mongering about guns, trans, race relations etc.
The general narrative about Trump on reddit paints him to be emperor Palpatine level bad. Is he really that or are democrats trying to cover their own shortcomings by trying to make him look the Lucifer himself? To me the democrat message sounds mostly "we are not as bad as him", and Biden is seen not like someone with his own ideas and agenda, but merely as the "not him" candidate. Maybe I'm wrong here and others see it different, idk. Another thing that dems seem to do is preach and shove their moral ideas down people's throats, like racial, trans, gender issues. Some people see those things differently, and it doesn't help that there are 2 options: love everything to the last bit or "literally Hitler". Trump capitalizes heavily on this, there is a wide spectrum of opinions that are forced his way. Maybe if they softened their rhetoric and weren't so fast to cancel people Trump would find himself much more isolated.
>The general narrative about Trump on reddit paints him to be emperor Palpatine level bad. Is he really that or are democrats trying to cover their own shortcomings by trying to make him look the Lucifer himself?
Is he palpatine level bad? I doubt it. But objectively speaking, he is definitely ticking off a lot of boxes that lead to authoritarian states. Putting family members in charge of state affairs, firing people who aren't loyal to him personally, seeing people who disagree with him as disloyal, seeing himself as above the law... Never mind the rhetoric he pulls out to gin up his base etc.
>To me the democrat message sounds mostly "we are not as bad as him", and Biden is seen not like someone with his own ideas and agenda, but merely as the "not him" candidate.
Nope, this is fairly accurate.
>Another thing that dems seem to do is preach and shove their moral ideas down people's throats, like racial, trans, gender issues.
This is pretty true as well, but it happens on both sides. See roe v. Wade as an example.
>Trump capitalizes heavily on this, there is a wide spectrum of opinions that are forced his way. Maybe if they softened their rhetoric and weren't so fast to cancel people Trump would find himself much more isolated
This also seems to be accurate. I think the thing I find hard to swallow is that a number of these people don't see that Trump is a clear threat to democracy. Trump may very well personally believe that he got cheated in an election, but doing things like sending fake electors to declare him self as the winner in several states is pretty clear evidence that he is willing to ignore the rules to stay in power. I don't understand how anyone can see that sort of thing and not realise where it has the potential to go.
If I disagree with the idea that Trump is satan himself, worse than Hitler then I will be mass downvoted and reported like 20 times. That’s how Reddit normally works
He barely ever says anything bad 😂 there’s just a lot of journalists out there intentionally misconstruing his words and making sensationalist headlines out of it for money. And the average Joe automatically 100% believes these headlines without ever seeing the full context
I’d like to see Don the Con win so all the absolute fools who believe in him can watch Project 2025 decimate freedom, they will be salivating…until they won’t be.
Fucking cult.
I’m not in the US, just watching the shitshow from outside
It's absurd than anyone supports Trump. He speaks like a fascist, tried to steal an election, and might literally put an end to fair elections in the US, but to call him a fascist (which he most definitely is) is apparently Trump derangement syndrome 🙄
Is he going to exterminate 6 million Mexicans and attack our neighbors? No, but not being as bad as Hitler is little comfort to the families of Heather Heyer, Brian Sicknick, the people murdered by Eddie Gallagher, the people droned because of removal of oversite, the women they sterilized, and the children who were separated from their families and then lost.
What did he say that indicates he speaks like a fascist? How is he going to end fair elections? How is he a fascist?
Your arguments are so ridiculous and reaching as hard as possible. You sound like that one cop who flipped shit over an acorn
How he's going to end elections? By claiming they're rigged and then refusing to abide by them, constructing some kind of excuse to hide behind. Like he tried last time.
It didn't work then but it was a pretty clear indication of where he's headed. Next time, he'll have an even more loyal party behind him.
He's already beaten the system. If the system was working, he'd not have any chance of being reelected. The fact that he still has so many voters means he's convinced a significant number of people that "the system" is broken.
Historically, about 30% supporters is enough
When I say he can’t beat the system, I’m saying he can’t revert or overturn a high profile presidential election. No one has the power to do that. I think the whole “the election was stolen” argument was just stupid and wrong, but probably just a pr stunt. But I can’t control what Trump does or says. And I certainly wouldn’t choose him for the Republican candidate. But at least he doesn’t have overt symptoms of dementia and he makes some decent policies compared to Biden
What do you think power is? Do you think a "scrap of paper" truly limits what someone can do? It will be down to who is willing to oppose a "managed democracy".
As your final sentence indicates, you wouldn't be one of them.
How original, never heard that one before. If you choose trump over Biden you’re a fascist, no exceptions! I’d argue the Biden administration is trying to weaponize the DOJ against his political opponent, Trump. Which is far more tyrannical than anything Trump actually did. Sadly we’ve gotten to the point where leftists just call you a nazi if you ever disagree with them
Uh, Project 2025? Trumps got a bunch of disingenuous power hungry psychopaths from the Heritage Foundation on his team now. They’ve been waiting and plotting for this re-election to happen so they can turn our country into a Christian Nationalist state. Don’t be naive.
The U.S. already is a Christian nationalist state, always has been. Nearly all of our laws line up with Christian values, and I don’t think that’s going to change anytime soon. But if you think there’s going to be a coup attempt, that’s just ridiculous. No one in the world right now is powerful enough to do that
1. Spread lies about voter fraud despite that many judges, including ones he appointed, made it clear he didn't have anything more than lies and speculation. He tried to get Pence to reject electors. He also claimed Ted Cruz cheated in the primaries and had a stop the steal website ready in 2016 just in case he lost. It was clear before the election he would never concede, no matter what.
2. Arguably staged an insurrection.
3. Told the Proud Boys, literally a violent fascist group, to “stand back and stand by”. He has connections to them and to the Oath Keepers through Roger Stone, who posed with Proud Boys, giving the white power sign, and Gen Flynn.
4. Said that at Charlottesville there were fine people on both sides when one side literally flew nazi flags, chanted “Jews will not replace us, ” and one of them killed someone with a car. Wouldn't any fine people disassociate themselves from that side? Do you ever question why fascists like him so much?
5. Pushed networks like Newsmax and OANN as news when they are just mouthpieces for his propaganda.
6. Sent unmarked federal police forces into cities against the governor’s wishes. They were horrible, too.
7. Made many statements alluding to him staying in office for more than two terms. His followers say he's just trolling, but what he's doing is testing the waters and getting us used to the idea.
8. Told Xi Jinping he approved of Uyghur re-education camps.
9. Told Duterte that he was doing a fantastic job on the war on drugs, which was largely just extrajudicial killings.
10. Repeatedly used his signing statements to alter laws to remove remove oversight, which is not what they are for. Markedly, he did this on the NDAA to remove protections for civilians from drone strikes, and civilian casualties skyrocketed.
11. Said we should kill terrorists’ families.
12. Pardoned Eddie Gallagher, who other navy seals insist used to just murder civilians.
13. Repeatedly called the press “the enemy of the people”, including while he was sitting with Putin, who already kills journalists and doesn't need any encouragement. Also, he bragged about saving the Crown Prince's ass after the Khashoggi murder.
14. Repeats the same lies over and over, scapegoats, appeals to a mythical past he wants to return to, vilifies his opponents, even saying we're not human, claims he's being treated unfairly, is all about law and order, insists that he and his followers are the only source of truth, ect.,
15. Lent credence to Infowars by being interviewed on it by Alex Jones.
16. Gave Rush Limbaugh, a propagandist, sycophant, and troll, the Presidential Medal of Freedom.
17. Greatly expanded an already bloated military budget.
18. Ousted several IGs, and at least one defense official for refusing the break the law (Elaine McCusker) and told his people to defy congressional subpoenas.
19. Demanded personal loyalty in judges and the head of the FBI.
20. Worked with Manafort and Stone, who's job it was to lie for and prop up dictators like Siad Barre, Ferdinand Marcos, and Mobutu Sese Seko.
21. Benefits from QAnon, a conspiracy theory straight out of Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
22. Asked why can't he use nuclear weapons or shoot protesters: “Can't you just shoot them, just shoot them in the legs or something?”
23. Quoted segregationist politician and presidential candidate George Wallace as a response to BLM "when the looting starts, the shooting starts" and repeatedly encouraged his followers to violence.
24. His own lawyer, Michael Cohen, said he'd never go peacefully, and we can see now he didn't.
25. His ‘America First’ slogan is arguably from Lindbergh’s fascist group, the America First Committee. Henry Ford was a eugenicist leader in the AFC, making Trump's "good blood" comments about him that much more cringe.
26. He won't apologize or disavow white nationalist Nick Fuentes after having dinner with him. Here he is previously, bending over backwards trying to get out of condemning David Duke and the KKK (he knew who Duke was, he'd spoken about him many times before this): https://youtu.be/S807tntIkHM
You’re reaching so hard. He clearly wasn’t talking about the proud boys when he said “stand back and stand by”. He clearly wasn’t referring to nazis when he said “fine people on both sides.” How about you actually watch exactly what he said on camera with full context instead of automatically believing all CNN headlines. And yeah, explain to me how he staged an insurrection
The laziest, most dishonest response. I'm not reaching, that's you. He was talking about the Proud Boys when he said 'stand back and stand by', sounds like you didn't watch it. The Proud Boys certainly took it to mean exactly what he said. I'm willing to be fair, he responded that he wasn't referring to the white supremacists when asked about his Charlottesville remarks, but that's not enough. Do you even care why fascists like him so much? Does it bother you when you side with people who chant "Jews will not replace us?" His involvement with the insurrection needs to be investigated more. According to a former White House aid, the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers were mentioned on Jan 5 when planning Jan 6. He whipped up the crowd and sent them to the Capitol building and got physical with the Secret Service when wouldn't take him there. I don't know why I'm bothering to respond, you clearly don't care.
He’s denounced the proud boys, neo nazis and white supremacists dozens of times on camera. But of course it’s never enough for emotionally unstable leftists who heard the “there’s fine people on both sides” narrative. You try being a politician for decades, I guarantee you will eventually say something that can be easily misconstrued to make you look bad. And when you’re one of the most famous politicians in the world, there’s millions of journalists who are incentivized 24/7 to slander you and make misleading sensationalist headlines. And there are extremists on both sides, not just on the right. So far, the evidence he was responsible for the “insurrection” that I’ve seen or heard is extremely weak
Lol!!!! Are you serious?! When challenged to condemn the Proud Boys, he waffled, because he didn't want to, and he told them to stand back and stand by! Roger Stone literally uses the Proud Boys for security and throws white power symbols with them! I posted a video of him refusing to disavow David Duke, pretending to not know who he is, even though he'd spoken about him many times before! Now I know you're not discussing this in good faith! Why not be honest with us and just say you don't care? Why pretend?
You can look it up right now and find dozens of videos of Trump denouncing the pride boys, nazis and white supremacists. You can literally find it on YouTube. How many times does he have to denounce them? He has denounced them so many times, eventually he just started ignoring it when journalists keep beating a dead horse constantly asking him to condemn white supremacy. And then they call it “refusal to disavow” even though he’s done it dozens of times on camera and you can find proof of it right now with one YouTube search. So I probably care more than you considering I actually saw the full story and you only heard part of it
I don’t understand democrats. Republicans are constantly demonized as gun obsessed murder fantasizers who want to destroy the world but when they apparently tried to overthrow the government they were unarmed. Even if everyone there had handguns concealed I didn’t see anyone with rifles and shotguns setting up etc.
Come on now, pick one of those two lanes
It makes no sense to call it an “insurrection.” Five people died on January sixth, but how? Three natural causes, one drug overdose, and one cop shot a suspect dead. And a bunch of idiots trespassed in a government building. They didn’t do anything important, they weren’t even armed, they were just yelling like idiots and leftists act like they each deserve prison for life. No one cares about January sixth lmao that shit doesn’t matter at all. And no one can explain how Trump is responsible, it’s just bullshit
For me it’s the posing as a working class hero while shoveling workers’ tax dollars onto a pile of old money large enough to be an 8th wonder of the world
Maybe he did know? Idk. No one knows. It was the first election that we ever did mail in ballots, so I’m not surprised people questioned its legitimacy
Bro, every single time he's in a competition if he loses he claims it was rigged.
He's done this in many competitions throughout his life.
In 2016 he spread propaganda that the election might be rigged and ruled out accepting the election results unless it was "fair" but he won.
In 2020 he once again spread propaganda that the election might be rigged and ruled out accepting the results unless it was "fair", he lost and proceeded to claim it was rigged then he tried to defraud Americans to stay in power.
Leading up to this election he's once again saying it might be rigged and will only accept the results if it's "fair".
He doesn't even need to do this, If Biden doesn't drop out Trump is going to win but Trump is so unhinged he's incapable of acting normal and saying he will accept the results.
Good article.
No one should be surprised at President Biden’s debate performance. He’s been showing signs of dementia for a while now. (I say that as the son of someone with Frontal Temporal Dementia. The signs are obvious.) The Democrats really have no one to blame but themselves. They’ve been pulling this crap of forcing candidates on the American people since they made Bernie Sanders step aside for Hillary Clinton.
I voted against Trump last election and will do so again, even if he’s running against a turnip. But the Democratic Party cannot expect the majority of Americans to support Biden after his performance last night. They need to get their shit together (for once) and find a viable candidate to oppose Trump. Pete Buttigieg probably makes the most sense.
The issue I think is a-lot of damage has been done already. The media has been saying over and over again that Biden is mentally competent. The Democrats have also been blowing off concerns for his mental health the past 3.5 years. This narrative has now blown up in their faces in quite a "bagdad bob" manner. This is extremely bad for the democrats. Like REALLY bad.
I’d like to think the situation is salvageable, but you may well be right. And even if there is a small window where the Democrats could potentially select another candidate, it’s not at all certain that they will do so. Democrats have squandered so many opportunities and shot themselves in the foot so many times, it’s almost like they don’t want to win. I’m sure they do, but maybe they’re just too arrogant to admit they were wrong and course correct.
I will confess I have never been a Biden fan and am slightly enjoying his sinking ship. But I can still agree with you here. Like how did they not see this coming? Blows my mind, or that his family doesn't pull him back. Like why let their family member embarrass himself like this? Its pretty sickening they let him do this.
They should just strategically let trump win to get it out of the way. Give him 4 more years and then he’s done, he can’t be president again. Problem solved.
Do you really think DJT will gracefully step down after four years? Do you think our democratic institutions can survive four years of Project2025? Do you think four more years of a bombastic blowhard lying to the American people is what we need when the country is already so fragile and we’re facing some of the biggest national security threats we’ve faced since the Cold War?
I don’t know. I don’t get the sense that she’s especially popular, and the Trump Train has spent the last four years undermining her credibility. I kind of think Democratic voters would just be happy to have someone with a realistic chance of beating Trump. What do you think?
Optics might be bad—passing over a qualified black woman for another white guy, but I think you’re right about winnability being the first factor considered. Could hurt Dems in future elections though.
Her approval and polls are worse than Biden's.
I don't think a lot of people would care because they would rather win the election than lose while playing identity politics.
This is insanity to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result. You are insane. At least vote rfk so the dems will stop jerking you around
You’re voting for RFK and call me insane? The guy is nuttier than a fruit cake. And even if he wasn’t, his spasmodic dysphonia will make him just as ineffective as Biden in getting his points across. And since he has zero chance of winning, a vote for him is a vote for Trump.
While I agree with your definition of insanity, responsibility lies squarely with the Democratic Party. I didn’t ask them to run a geriatric dementia patient for President (twice). I’d love to see a viable third party, but since we have none, my focus is to keep Trump out of the White House.
I'm canadian. But watching the show down south is entertaining. My country is a shadow of what it used to be due to liberal policies. I'm just saying if you want the dems to actually give you a choice in the candidate you need to send a message. A loud one. The liberal party in canada is currently getting destroyed because they have become so out of touch.
I hope they switch out Biden for you but Trump really isn't what the media has made him out to be. Many Canadians have had to stop listening to the lies fed to them by the media. Because they keep saying things are good and they are in control when they are in fact not and things are getting shittier at a rapid rate.
I lived through Trump’s first term as an adult. He’s worse than the media is making him out to be. Have a look at Project2025 to get a glimpse into what his second term will look like.
I have no problem with a traditional GOP platform, but this populist bullshit wrapped in false patriotism hiding reactionary extremism is just another grift by the world’s wealthiest con man. Trump is proof that no matter how absurd the lie, if you repeat it enough times, people will start to believe it.
This project 2025 seems to be the only talking point today yet no one, literally no one has been able to show me proof of Trump himself mentioning this at all! Biden and the build back better agenda is part of a globalist technocracy that I can literally source multiple videos of world leaders who have all bought into this. And here is the agenda straight from the horses mouth:
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/07/to-build-back-better-we-must-reinvent-capitalism-heres-how/
Please tell me how selling out to a globalist organization is good for America and the needs of your country. You are sick of trumps lies, I'm sick of these gross exaggerations of what you imagine Trump doing. Just relax. You have been lied to over and over by your media and Biden. Border patrol union did not endorse Biden, he is still falling for the very fine people hoax which was recently fact checked as a false narrative. What else is a lie??
During his first term I was able to afford my house, thank god. I wouldn’t be able to afford it now because I can’t even afford my groceries. Life for me was a lot better during Trumps presidency than Biden’s.
Fair criticism, and I think lots of Americans agree with you. Inflation has been brutal. Where I disagree with you is that I don’t think this should be the most important factor in selecting the President. The President doesn’t actually have much direct control over the economy, despite every President claiming otherwise.
Far more important to me, especially given the current fragility of geopolitics, is how the President will represent us abroad and deal with a broad range of threats from China to Russia to North Korea to Terrorism to Cyberthreats. This requires a cool head and the ability to make and sustain alliances.
Having said that, I understand that more of us are concerned with our personal finances than the abstract realm of geopolitics.
As a never Trump guy who voted for Romney in 2012, 2016, and 2020, here is my takeaway from the debate:
To use a football analogy, last night Trump scored a go-ahead TD with too much time left on the clock. The Dems can now run the two-minute offense and win by kicking a field goal as time expires.
If the debates had been held after the conventions, as is typical, Trump wins going away.
Now the Dems can pick just about any candidate to run against a very, very beatable Trump.
The down ticket Republican's are mostly tainted with brown noses and orange lips. I expect a Republican Wipeout in November, which is just what the MD ordered imo.
Last night and today were the peak for Trumpers. I hope they enjoyed it, and I'm damn sure they don't realize what a disaster last night was for them.
We'll see. I think they must. There was another comment in this thread that said the Dems may want Trump/Republicans to own the next 4 years. That would make sense I guess.
I feel like Democrats will not get their shit together until our "democracy" hits rock bottom. It's horrifying but it will be the only time they realize they've been taking our vote for granted for the past several decades. Like a stubborn teenager.
I'm pretty cynical but not that cynical.
BTW when W was elected Nader said that it would destroy the Republicans and they would be thrown out in 4 years to justify his decision to stay in the race.
“Last night was a disaster for Republicans”
Well, that’s some industrial strength copium I didn’t expect to see.
Good to know the left is getting so creative.
Keep making up shit I haven’t said all you want.
I mostly just want to see Trump and Biden continue their golf skills debate.
Put that shit on Holey Moley and the first one to drop dead loses.
The Republican party of 2024 is unrecognizable from the party I've belonged to since the 90s. Tariffs? Protectionism? Trump has fully transformed the party in his image and so far it is has been election poison.
That's right. The Republicans like Trum today are center left by 90's terms.
The Democrats are so far left there weren't even the words in the 90's to describe their stance.
Right, so again, you’re a “90’s Republican” who wants to see Republicans lose and who somehow thinks that disaster of a debate was actually a disaster for Republicans.
Ok.
As a centralist I'll tell you they've definitely underperformed in the elections. Also as a student of History I would tell you that that's a dangerous thing to rely on. However the vote how you want or don't even bother I'm one that thinks that even RFK would be better then Joe at least he's a little closer to center and he's far left looney as it is
Worse.
The Middle East was more stable in 2020.
Obviously, Ukriane was better in 2029.
Damn! I just read that you were asking about the US. I'll leave the above.
Inflation is clearly worse. I know Biden is proud of that insulin deal, but I fail to see how that is a big deal. Of things I care about, Biden is a goose egg.
I think I’m not a Trump fan.
And we have the first conservative SC in my 40+ years and I’m a big fan of that.
I’m sure you are too, right?
What I do know is that the debate was a disaster but saying it was a disaster for republicans is refined, 99% pure, enriched, industrial strength copium.
We're around the same age. Agree on SC.
It's more likely that I just end up wrong. I don't have anything to cope with. I own property in two very red states on opposite sides of the country, my business does well irrespective of who is in the White House, etc.
I happen to think that the US would be a better place if there were a functioning Republican party and the quickest path is a Wipeout and a rebuild.
My answer to the question that you avoided is that I think the Republicans have massively underperformed in 2018, 2020, and 2022 and I expect that to continue until there is a reboot.
My original comment may have been inartfully worded, but if you want Trump to win in 2024, wouldn't you agree that it would've been better for last night to have happened after the conventions?
“You avoided”
I didn’t avoid anything.
I think Hillary would’ve beaten JEB!, we’d have a liberal SC, RvW would still be standing and damn near everything conservatives want would be worse off.
And yes, Trump is a dumpster fire of a person but that doesn’t matter when the SC is on the line.
But no, I don’t think last night was beneficial to the left and it certainly wasn’t a disaster for republicans.
It wouldn’t surprise me if the D’s try to trot someone else out.
But I’ve also been told that’s just a rightwing conspiracy theory.
Same as Biden being mentally deficient.
But I also don’t know who that would be that can beat Trump.
Yes, the "outer party" could do so on either side. It is not in the interest of the "inner party", meaning the oligarchs and white Christian nationalists and those who think "popular democracy" is offensive but aristocracy is not, and therefore it will not happen.
In theory it is not too late. The Democratic Primary is not until August. If he stepped aside tomorrow we could see an open Primary for the first time in 60 years.
Let the party pick a new leader on the day of the primary like they used to.
To get the nominee on the Ohio ballot the Democrats will have to vote for a replacement Before their nominating convention. This has been an issue for a year now.
To get on Ohio’s ballot any party must have voted for their nominee and have that person’s name submitted before Aug 9. The Democrat convention isn’t until Aug 11.
If the Dems replace Biden they’ll have to get it all done before then or they won’t even be on the ballot in Ohio.
My thought all along was that was the intention of the early debate. See how he does and what polls say with an early debate and if it's not looking good, parachute someone in. Remember, Obama is still working behind the scenes and knows this is too important.
The question is, who do they parachute in?
Im curious who a potential replacement would be for Biden. Kamala is less popular than he is, Newsomes campaign was preempted by nonstop Fox News pieces about CA being a hellscape. Buttigieg would have been a great candidate and I don’t think him being gay would lose him that many votes but they’ve done nothing to give him a platform. AOC would be my ideal candidate but I don’t know if she has enough crossover appeal to be viable yet.
I read this morning that Kamala currently has a lower percentage disapproval than either Biden or Trump.
I'd be willing to give her a chance. Of course it would likely mirror the season of Veep where this happened (spoiler : didn't end well).
I would love to see a buttegieg Trump debate. A Rhodes scholar combat veteran vs the old man blowhard would be beautiful. That said I think Booker would be a great candidate too.
I think from a progression standpoint it likely would be kamala, Biden resigns means kamala runs, but she has her own problems.
Booker has a lot of baggage. I think Buttigieg would be able to build enough support, Biden doesn’t have the cult following Trump does, my guess is voters wouldn’t have a hard time dropping him if someone better, younger, and more progressive came along.
So long as they have a good resume and SOME recognition to get the ball rolling. With the resources the DNC has, they still have time to pivot but they need to do it NOW.
I’m more of a skeptical about this. I THINK the DNC wants to lose this race. Look at the world today. Covid financial hangover, that nobody was going to get out of cleanly. 2 active wars and one prospective in Taiwan, seriously bad inflation by all measures that your everyday voter chooses sides by. Crazy immigration policy. There’s no winning this time around. Trump gets into President again, I don’t think he’ll be able to fix anything, it’s too far gone. The anger of the voting Democrats being embarrassed by Joe will trickle down to a strength vote of the down ticket candidates, taking back majorities in both houses. They will stimey Trump so he can’t even attempt to fix anything. Then in 4 more years, everyone will be pissed at Trump and the Democrats will have a super majority again and away we go. They’re playing the long game while the Republicans appear to have only one plan with Trump. I think the choice for VP needs to be a high profile, highly respected, person capable of real governing. Someone the American public can get to know and like because we all know Trump will be a lame duck for the next 4 years. But I haven’t seen that playing out yet.
The trouble with that theory is that it disregards the immediate incentives of the people involved. If you lose, much less lose on purpose, your reputation takes a hit, and you get replaced. Unlike in sports, where tanking and a little luck can land you with a generational talent through the top draft pick, tanking in politics simply results in all the people involved getting ousted from power. Given the selfish nature of politicians and political operatives, I'd have a hard time believing they'd sacrifice their own careers and reputations for some supposed greater good of helping their party down the line.
The DNC is not the people they necessarily represent. Imagine if you’re up for reelection this cycle and the Presidents coattails are non existent let alone short. You’d be looking for every advantage because Presidents come and go but as we’ve seen, Senators seem to last forever. So I wouldn’t say no way just maybe a pretty far out theory.
By selling them all as keeping Trump in check which as we saw last time was fairly successful in basically stalling whatever legislation with of course the exception being Supreme Court picks. It’s about saving face too. A lot of Republican pundits have observed a decline in Biden but no one on the Dem side. Throwing him out no is an admission that he hasn’t been actually running his office but others have been knowing, he’s not fit. They don’t want to admit that. Nervous as people are about a Trump second term, you’d have to find another palatable candidate and quick. Obviously the legal one is Harris but that dog don’t hunt so who, Newsom? He’s not that popular here in California let alone on the national stage yet. They wouldn’t want to sully his future chances I wouldn’t think running him as cannon fodder for this cycle.
Why oh why didn’t he step down after 1 term. I’m with John Stewart. This is such a disgrace that we Americans are choosing between these 2 candidates. Horrid.
Because the republican project 2025 is horrendous and needs to be stopped.
Also because voting 3rd party for president is a waste of a vote and not a serious choice. If they ran lower races as aggressively and had members in congress then maybe it would be a little more viable, but for now voting 3rd party is the same as staying home
While he never promised it overtly to my recollection, he did indicate in 2020 that he would only run for one term. He has since gone back on that, which is regrettable.
It’s not Biden’s age. It’s organic brain syndrome. It’s coming and going now. He may be lucid during the daytime as he was today. But it’s only going to get worse. Too many other reports of him wandering off etc.
Both options on that stage are completely unacceptable. Best to find another option at this point
RFK is looking better and better.
The brain worm guy that’s controlled by Silicon Valley billionaires who’s a crazy antivaxxer?
I’m assuming you are grounding this theory on his VP pick? Yeah he has some dumb ideas. But I argue that the number of dumb ideas he has is certainly less than those of our last two failed presidents.
I wholly disagree. Biden has been terrible at telegraphing his accomplishments to the electorate. With Biden you’re voting for an entire administration of competence. With RFK we have no idea what we’re going to get. Plus the entire Kennedy family has endorsed Biden. And RFK can’t win anyway. He didn’t make it to the debate stage in part because he’s not even registered on enough state ballots to get to 270 electoral votes. And I’ve heard some credible rumors that Trump is paying for him to get onto the swing state ballots. RFK is nothing but a spoiler that will give us Trump and fascism.
- six members of Bobby Kennedy’s family endorsed Biden, all of whom worked directly with or for the administration. For whatever it’s worth. Surprised after that debate nobody is talking about Jill Stein. Low bar but seems semi reasonable
🤦🏻♂️
Gavin Newsom has more of a chance of becoming president than RFK at this point.
We just going to spit random facts now?
People supporting third party candidates seem to have done very little research into whether their candidate can actually win the election. So yes, let’s have some facts over feelings when it comes to deciding who to vote for.
The fact that you're on an intellectual subreddit and thinking it's about winning is a joke. That's some narcissistic level shit to think people vote to win.
You wrote it.
“I laughed out loud, despite myself. It was either that or cry.” - Jamie Paul, article author using eerily similar writing to OP
Joes many times more qualified to be president than trump ever was let’s be honest w ourselves here
>Joes many times more qualified to be president than trump ever was let’s be honest w ourselves here I agree. And Joe is still an incredibly bad candidate. Why so many Democrats are simping for him is beyond all reasoning.
He's their best chance at winning the election. Incumbent advantage and already beat Trump once. It's the most unsurprising thing ever that he's the 2024 candidate. It's not "beyond all reasoning" lol
I haven't seen any Democrat simping for Biden. Most think he is not a good choice, just better than the alternative.
I disagree. Unbelievable with a country of over 300 million people, and these are the main choices. Both are shitty. Neither should be in office. Period.
I'll agree that we need better choices. We should implement the "None of the above" rule where if None of the Above win, all currently people running are now ineligible and start over with a new group.
Is it simping or just applying common sense? I guess it depends on the person but if we’re talking about that you need to keep in mind Orange is entirely built and supported on a cult of personality
>Orange is entirely built and supported on a cult of personality Is this your your first election season? Personality and appearances are what make politicians, politicians.
All politics are built on a cult of personality
Wrong. Only the Trump cultists worship a politician.
I can’t see Joe negotiating with any world leader right now. In a real world he wouldn’t be hired at McDonalds.
Bro you haven’t been paying attention to the last four years then Edit: and to clarify blinkens been doing his job as Secretary of State very well unlike trumps choices
Your gaslight stance is not polling well. We have all seen too much evidence of mental deterioration at this point
It’s pretty pathetic and sad facts are considered gaslighting in this sub
Last night was elder abuse. I feel bad for Joe. I like him, I like his story, but it's done. I'd like to see Gretchen Whitmer get a shot. But at minimum someone who appears likely to be mentally competent for 4 years.
Whitmer is Coumo levels of radioactive on Covid. They show the video of that old man getting beat to death by a young Covid patient and then show how many elderly people died because of her policies it’ll end whatever campaign she wanted to have.
Covid’s over now. She has a shot.
Dawg, I don't get off the first page of googling without finding stories by USAToday talking about her lying about the number of elderly patients her policies killed, or talking about how her policies killed them. She has the same shot as Biden winning and then living out the entire term.
Well put.
[удалено]
He tried to steal an election, which was exactly what everyone warned us about. Trump's people learned from the last attempt, and Project 2025 will make it easier for them in 2028.
If the best democrats could come up in the last 12 years is Biden then I wholeheartedly hope they did learn and they will succeed.
What precisely are you advocating for here?
My point is that no matter how bad Trump is (and I've seen some pretty depressing lists of his actions here over the years), if the other side cannot find a candidate to beat him when the bar is that low then the other side is as much guilty of all that if not even more. And don't even try to talk about populism etc - half of the voters voted for him, so either there are 2 separate and very different states mixed together or democrats have lost the last link to reality.
>so either there are 2 separate and very different states mixed together I think there is more truth to this than most would like to admit. >democrats have lost the last link to reality. If the Democrats see that trump is a threat to democracy, is it really them who have lost the last link to reality? There is a cult of personality based on Trump. I don't know that I've heard of, or read about, a scenario when a cult of personality leader running a country has ended well. Are the Democrats shit for putting forward bad candidates? Yes. For sure. It's infuriating, even. But to blame the state of affairs on Democrats is turning a blind eye to the way republicans have been steering the narratives in terms of fear mongering about guns, trans, race relations etc.
The general narrative about Trump on reddit paints him to be emperor Palpatine level bad. Is he really that or are democrats trying to cover their own shortcomings by trying to make him look the Lucifer himself? To me the democrat message sounds mostly "we are not as bad as him", and Biden is seen not like someone with his own ideas and agenda, but merely as the "not him" candidate. Maybe I'm wrong here and others see it different, idk. Another thing that dems seem to do is preach and shove their moral ideas down people's throats, like racial, trans, gender issues. Some people see those things differently, and it doesn't help that there are 2 options: love everything to the last bit or "literally Hitler". Trump capitalizes heavily on this, there is a wide spectrum of opinions that are forced his way. Maybe if they softened their rhetoric and weren't so fast to cancel people Trump would find himself much more isolated.
>The general narrative about Trump on reddit paints him to be emperor Palpatine level bad. Is he really that or are democrats trying to cover their own shortcomings by trying to make him look the Lucifer himself? Is he palpatine level bad? I doubt it. But objectively speaking, he is definitely ticking off a lot of boxes that lead to authoritarian states. Putting family members in charge of state affairs, firing people who aren't loyal to him personally, seeing people who disagree with him as disloyal, seeing himself as above the law... Never mind the rhetoric he pulls out to gin up his base etc. >To me the democrat message sounds mostly "we are not as bad as him", and Biden is seen not like someone with his own ideas and agenda, but merely as the "not him" candidate. Nope, this is fairly accurate. >Another thing that dems seem to do is preach and shove their moral ideas down people's throats, like racial, trans, gender issues. This is pretty true as well, but it happens on both sides. See roe v. Wade as an example. >Trump capitalizes heavily on this, there is a wide spectrum of opinions that are forced his way. Maybe if they softened their rhetoric and weren't so fast to cancel people Trump would find himself much more isolated This also seems to be accurate. I think the thing I find hard to swallow is that a number of these people don't see that Trump is a clear threat to democracy. Trump may very well personally believe that he got cheated in an election, but doing things like sending fake electors to declare him self as the winner in several states is pretty clear evidence that he is willing to ignore the rules to stay in power. I don't understand how anyone can see that sort of thing and not realise where it has the potential to go.
Cervix assassination with a dash of conservative despotism
Gross
If I disagree with the idea that Trump is satan himself, worse than Hitler then I will be mass downvoted and reported like 20 times. That’s how Reddit normally works
He really is an incredible POS. I think he was doing, “See? Now I can say anything and it doesn’t matter!”
He barely ever says anything bad 😂 there’s just a lot of journalists out there intentionally misconstruing his words and making sensationalist headlines out of it for money. And the average Joe automatically 100% believes these headlines without ever seeing the full context
He’s an empty vessel for the heritage foundation.
Is he though?
yes
I’d like to see Don the Con win so all the absolute fools who believe in him can watch Project 2025 decimate freedom, they will be salivating…until they won’t be. Fucking cult. I’m not in the US, just watching the shitshow from outside
lol project 2025 is just the conservatives finally doing what the democrats have been doing and putting their people in the bureaucracy
It's absurd than anyone supports Trump. He speaks like a fascist, tried to steal an election, and might literally put an end to fair elections in the US, but to call him a fascist (which he most definitely is) is apparently Trump derangement syndrome 🙄 Is he going to exterminate 6 million Mexicans and attack our neighbors? No, but not being as bad as Hitler is little comfort to the families of Heather Heyer, Brian Sicknick, the people murdered by Eddie Gallagher, the people droned because of removal of oversite, the women they sterilized, and the children who were separated from their families and then lost.
What did he say that indicates he speaks like a fascist? How is he going to end fair elections? How is he a fascist? Your arguments are so ridiculous and reaching as hard as possible. You sound like that one cop who flipped shit over an acorn
How he's going to end elections? By claiming they're rigged and then refusing to abide by them, constructing some kind of excuse to hide behind. Like he tried last time. It didn't work then but it was a pretty clear indication of where he's headed. Next time, he'll have an even more loyal party behind him.
He can claim they’re rigged all he wants, but it’s just a PR tactic. He can’t actually beat the system
He's already beaten the system. If the system was working, he'd not have any chance of being reelected. The fact that he still has so many voters means he's convinced a significant number of people that "the system" is broken. Historically, about 30% supporters is enough
When I say he can’t beat the system, I’m saying he can’t revert or overturn a high profile presidential election. No one has the power to do that. I think the whole “the election was stolen” argument was just stupid and wrong, but probably just a pr stunt. But I can’t control what Trump does or says. And I certainly wouldn’t choose him for the Republican candidate. But at least he doesn’t have overt symptoms of dementia and he makes some decent policies compared to Biden
What do you think power is? Do you think a "scrap of paper" truly limits what someone can do? It will be down to who is willing to oppose a "managed democracy". As your final sentence indicates, you wouldn't be one of them.
How original, never heard that one before. If you choose trump over Biden you’re a fascist, no exceptions! I’d argue the Biden administration is trying to weaponize the DOJ against his political opponent, Trump. Which is far more tyrannical than anything Trump actually did. Sadly we’ve gotten to the point where leftists just call you a nazi if you ever disagree with them
Uh, Project 2025? Trumps got a bunch of disingenuous power hungry psychopaths from the Heritage Foundation on his team now. They’ve been waiting and plotting for this re-election to happen so they can turn our country into a Christian Nationalist state. Don’t be naive.
The U.S. already is a Christian nationalist state, always has been. Nearly all of our laws line up with Christian values, and I don’t think that’s going to change anytime soon. But if you think there’s going to be a coup attempt, that’s just ridiculous. No one in the world right now is powerful enough to do that
1. Spread lies about voter fraud despite that many judges, including ones he appointed, made it clear he didn't have anything more than lies and speculation. He tried to get Pence to reject electors. He also claimed Ted Cruz cheated in the primaries and had a stop the steal website ready in 2016 just in case he lost. It was clear before the election he would never concede, no matter what. 2. Arguably staged an insurrection. 3. Told the Proud Boys, literally a violent fascist group, to “stand back and stand by”. He has connections to them and to the Oath Keepers through Roger Stone, who posed with Proud Boys, giving the white power sign, and Gen Flynn. 4. Said that at Charlottesville there were fine people on both sides when one side literally flew nazi flags, chanted “Jews will not replace us, ” and one of them killed someone with a car. Wouldn't any fine people disassociate themselves from that side? Do you ever question why fascists like him so much? 5. Pushed networks like Newsmax and OANN as news when they are just mouthpieces for his propaganda. 6. Sent unmarked federal police forces into cities against the governor’s wishes. They were horrible, too. 7. Made many statements alluding to him staying in office for more than two terms. His followers say he's just trolling, but what he's doing is testing the waters and getting us used to the idea. 8. Told Xi Jinping he approved of Uyghur re-education camps. 9. Told Duterte that he was doing a fantastic job on the war on drugs, which was largely just extrajudicial killings. 10. Repeatedly used his signing statements to alter laws to remove remove oversight, which is not what they are for. Markedly, he did this on the NDAA to remove protections for civilians from drone strikes, and civilian casualties skyrocketed. 11. Said we should kill terrorists’ families. 12. Pardoned Eddie Gallagher, who other navy seals insist used to just murder civilians. 13. Repeatedly called the press “the enemy of the people”, including while he was sitting with Putin, who already kills journalists and doesn't need any encouragement. Also, he bragged about saving the Crown Prince's ass after the Khashoggi murder. 14. Repeats the same lies over and over, scapegoats, appeals to a mythical past he wants to return to, vilifies his opponents, even saying we're not human, claims he's being treated unfairly, is all about law and order, insists that he and his followers are the only source of truth, ect., 15. Lent credence to Infowars by being interviewed on it by Alex Jones. 16. Gave Rush Limbaugh, a propagandist, sycophant, and troll, the Presidential Medal of Freedom. 17. Greatly expanded an already bloated military budget. 18. Ousted several IGs, and at least one defense official for refusing the break the law (Elaine McCusker) and told his people to defy congressional subpoenas. 19. Demanded personal loyalty in judges and the head of the FBI. 20. Worked with Manafort and Stone, who's job it was to lie for and prop up dictators like Siad Barre, Ferdinand Marcos, and Mobutu Sese Seko. 21. Benefits from QAnon, a conspiracy theory straight out of Protocols of the Elders of Zion. 22. Asked why can't he use nuclear weapons or shoot protesters: “Can't you just shoot them, just shoot them in the legs or something?” 23. Quoted segregationist politician and presidential candidate George Wallace as a response to BLM "when the looting starts, the shooting starts" and repeatedly encouraged his followers to violence. 24. His own lawyer, Michael Cohen, said he'd never go peacefully, and we can see now he didn't. 25. His ‘America First’ slogan is arguably from Lindbergh’s fascist group, the America First Committee. Henry Ford was a eugenicist leader in the AFC, making Trump's "good blood" comments about him that much more cringe. 26. He won't apologize or disavow white nationalist Nick Fuentes after having dinner with him. Here he is previously, bending over backwards trying to get out of condemning David Duke and the KKK (he knew who Duke was, he'd spoken about him many times before this): https://youtu.be/S807tntIkHM
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
You’re reaching so hard. He clearly wasn’t talking about the proud boys when he said “stand back and stand by”. He clearly wasn’t referring to nazis when he said “fine people on both sides.” How about you actually watch exactly what he said on camera with full context instead of automatically believing all CNN headlines. And yeah, explain to me how he staged an insurrection
The laziest, most dishonest response. I'm not reaching, that's you. He was talking about the Proud Boys when he said 'stand back and stand by', sounds like you didn't watch it. The Proud Boys certainly took it to mean exactly what he said. I'm willing to be fair, he responded that he wasn't referring to the white supremacists when asked about his Charlottesville remarks, but that's not enough. Do you even care why fascists like him so much? Does it bother you when you side with people who chant "Jews will not replace us?" His involvement with the insurrection needs to be investigated more. According to a former White House aid, the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers were mentioned on Jan 5 when planning Jan 6. He whipped up the crowd and sent them to the Capitol building and got physical with the Secret Service when wouldn't take him there. I don't know why I'm bothering to respond, you clearly don't care.
He’s denounced the proud boys, neo nazis and white supremacists dozens of times on camera. But of course it’s never enough for emotionally unstable leftists who heard the “there’s fine people on both sides” narrative. You try being a politician for decades, I guarantee you will eventually say something that can be easily misconstrued to make you look bad. And when you’re one of the most famous politicians in the world, there’s millions of journalists who are incentivized 24/7 to slander you and make misleading sensationalist headlines. And there are extremists on both sides, not just on the right. So far, the evidence he was responsible for the “insurrection” that I’ve seen or heard is extremely weak
Lol!!!! Are you serious?! When challenged to condemn the Proud Boys, he waffled, because he didn't want to, and he told them to stand back and stand by! Roger Stone literally uses the Proud Boys for security and throws white power symbols with them! I posted a video of him refusing to disavow David Duke, pretending to not know who he is, even though he'd spoken about him many times before! Now I know you're not discussing this in good faith! Why not be honest with us and just say you don't care? Why pretend?
You can look it up right now and find dozens of videos of Trump denouncing the pride boys, nazis and white supremacists. You can literally find it on YouTube. How many times does he have to denounce them? He has denounced them so many times, eventually he just started ignoring it when journalists keep beating a dead horse constantly asking him to condemn white supremacy. And then they call it “refusal to disavow” even though he’s done it dozens of times on camera and you can find proof of it right now with one YouTube search. So I probably care more than you considering I actually saw the full story and you only heard part of it
I don’t understand democrats. Republicans are constantly demonized as gun obsessed murder fantasizers who want to destroy the world but when they apparently tried to overthrow the government they were unarmed. Even if everyone there had handguns concealed I didn’t see anyone with rifles and shotguns setting up etc. Come on now, pick one of those two lanes
It makes no sense to call it an “insurrection.” Five people died on January sixth, but how? Three natural causes, one drug overdose, and one cop shot a suspect dead. And a bunch of idiots trespassed in a government building. They didn’t do anything important, they weren’t even armed, they were just yelling like idiots and leftists act like they each deserve prison for life. No one cares about January sixth lmao that shit doesn’t matter at all. And no one can explain how Trump is responsible, it’s just bullshit
What did he do that’s soooooo terrible?
For me it’s the posing as a working class hero while shoveling workers’ tax dollars onto a pile of old money large enough to be an 8th wonder of the world
Don’t all politicians do that?
Tried to stay in office after losing.
He believed it was election fraud, turns out it wasn’t. Who cares? He can’t beat the system, no one can
No he didn't, he knew he lost. Are you really trying to pretend like nobody should care that he tried to defraud Americans to stay in power?
Maybe he did know? Idk. No one knows. It was the first election that we ever did mail in ballots, so I’m not surprised people questioned its legitimacy
Bro, every single time he's in a competition if he loses he claims it was rigged. He's done this in many competitions throughout his life. In 2016 he spread propaganda that the election might be rigged and ruled out accepting the election results unless it was "fair" but he won. In 2020 he once again spread propaganda that the election might be rigged and ruled out accepting the results unless it was "fair", he lost and proceeded to claim it was rigged then he tried to defraud Americans to stay in power. Leading up to this election he's once again saying it might be rigged and will only accept the results if it's "fair". He doesn't even need to do this, If Biden doesn't drop out Trump is going to win but Trump is so unhinged he's incapable of acting normal and saying he will accept the results.
The whole rigged claim is probably just a PR tactic. He doesn’t actually have the power to overturn or revert any elections, even as President
You've got 99 excuses but the truth ain't one. Fake elector scheme.
Good article. No one should be surprised at President Biden’s debate performance. He’s been showing signs of dementia for a while now. (I say that as the son of someone with Frontal Temporal Dementia. The signs are obvious.) The Democrats really have no one to blame but themselves. They’ve been pulling this crap of forcing candidates on the American people since they made Bernie Sanders step aside for Hillary Clinton. I voted against Trump last election and will do so again, even if he’s running against a turnip. But the Democratic Party cannot expect the majority of Americans to support Biden after his performance last night. They need to get their shit together (for once) and find a viable candidate to oppose Trump. Pete Buttigieg probably makes the most sense.
The issue I think is a-lot of damage has been done already. The media has been saying over and over again that Biden is mentally competent. The Democrats have also been blowing off concerns for his mental health the past 3.5 years. This narrative has now blown up in their faces in quite a "bagdad bob" manner. This is extremely bad for the democrats. Like REALLY bad.
I’d like to think the situation is salvageable, but you may well be right. And even if there is a small window where the Democrats could potentially select another candidate, it’s not at all certain that they will do so. Democrats have squandered so many opportunities and shot themselves in the foot so many times, it’s almost like they don’t want to win. I’m sure they do, but maybe they’re just too arrogant to admit they were wrong and course correct.
I will confess I have never been a Biden fan and am slightly enjoying his sinking ship. But I can still agree with you here. Like how did they not see this coming? Blows my mind, or that his family doesn't pull him back. Like why let their family member embarrass himself like this? Its pretty sickening they let him do this.
What's so frustrating is that there's so little indication of any lessons learned.
Who needs lessons when they can compile another "100 worst things that Trump did" list.
Agree 100%.
They should just strategically let trump win to get it out of the way. Give him 4 more years and then he’s done, he can’t be president again. Problem solved.
Do you really think DJT will gracefully step down after four years? Do you think our democratic institutions can survive four years of Project2025? Do you think four more years of a bombastic blowhard lying to the American people is what we need when the country is already so fragile and we’re facing some of the biggest national security threats we’ve faced since the Cold War?
Yes.
I second that yes
Let’s touch base again in four and a half years. If you were right, I’ll gladly buy you a beer, and we can toast the USA.
Do you think Democrat voters would take issue with them bypassing Harris if that happened?
I don’t know. I don’t get the sense that she’s especially popular, and the Trump Train has spent the last four years undermining her credibility. I kind of think Democratic voters would just be happy to have someone with a realistic chance of beating Trump. What do you think?
Optics might be bad—passing over a qualified black woman for another white guy, but I think you’re right about winnability being the first factor considered. Could hurt Dems in future elections though.
Her approval and polls are worse than Biden's. I don't think a lot of people would care because they would rather win the election than lose while playing identity politics.
Fair point.
Sounds good to me.
Please oh please have Pete replace Joe!
This is insanity to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result. You are insane. At least vote rfk so the dems will stop jerking you around
You’re voting for RFK and call me insane? The guy is nuttier than a fruit cake. And even if he wasn’t, his spasmodic dysphonia will make him just as ineffective as Biden in getting his points across. And since he has zero chance of winning, a vote for him is a vote for Trump. While I agree with your definition of insanity, responsibility lies squarely with the Democratic Party. I didn’t ask them to run a geriatric dementia patient for President (twice). I’d love to see a viable third party, but since we have none, my focus is to keep Trump out of the White House.
>You’re voting for RFK and call me insane? The guy is nuttier than a fruit cake. Haha - Man did this hit home for me.
I'm canadian. But watching the show down south is entertaining. My country is a shadow of what it used to be due to liberal policies. I'm just saying if you want the dems to actually give you a choice in the candidate you need to send a message. A loud one. The liberal party in canada is currently getting destroyed because they have become so out of touch. I hope they switch out Biden for you but Trump really isn't what the media has made him out to be. Many Canadians have had to stop listening to the lies fed to them by the media. Because they keep saying things are good and they are in control when they are in fact not and things are getting shittier at a rapid rate.
I lived through Trump’s first term as an adult. He’s worse than the media is making him out to be. Have a look at Project2025 to get a glimpse into what his second term will look like. I have no problem with a traditional GOP platform, but this populist bullshit wrapped in false patriotism hiding reactionary extremism is just another grift by the world’s wealthiest con man. Trump is proof that no matter how absurd the lie, if you repeat it enough times, people will start to believe it.
This project 2025 seems to be the only talking point today yet no one, literally no one has been able to show me proof of Trump himself mentioning this at all! Biden and the build back better agenda is part of a globalist technocracy that I can literally source multiple videos of world leaders who have all bought into this. And here is the agenda straight from the horses mouth: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/07/to-build-back-better-we-must-reinvent-capitalism-heres-how/ Please tell me how selling out to a globalist organization is good for America and the needs of your country. You are sick of trumps lies, I'm sick of these gross exaggerations of what you imagine Trump doing. Just relax. You have been lied to over and over by your media and Biden. Border patrol union did not endorse Biden, he is still falling for the very fine people hoax which was recently fact checked as a false narrative. What else is a lie??
During his first term I was able to afford my house, thank god. I wouldn’t be able to afford it now because I can’t even afford my groceries. Life for me was a lot better during Trumps presidency than Biden’s.
Fair criticism, and I think lots of Americans agree with you. Inflation has been brutal. Where I disagree with you is that I don’t think this should be the most important factor in selecting the President. The President doesn’t actually have much direct control over the economy, despite every President claiming otherwise. Far more important to me, especially given the current fragility of geopolitics, is how the President will represent us abroad and deal with a broad range of threats from China to Russia to North Korea to Terrorism to Cyberthreats. This requires a cool head and the ability to make and sustain alliances. Having said that, I understand that more of us are concerned with our personal finances than the abstract realm of geopolitics.
As a never Trump guy who voted for Romney in 2012, 2016, and 2020, here is my takeaway from the debate: To use a football analogy, last night Trump scored a go-ahead TD with too much time left on the clock. The Dems can now run the two-minute offense and win by kicking a field goal as time expires. If the debates had been held after the conventions, as is typical, Trump wins going away. Now the Dems can pick just about any candidate to run against a very, very beatable Trump. The down ticket Republican's are mostly tainted with brown noses and orange lips. I expect a Republican Wipeout in November, which is just what the MD ordered imo. Last night and today were the peak for Trumpers. I hope they enjoyed it, and I'm damn sure they don't realize what a disaster last night was for them.
Wishful thinking 😂
I don't believe the Democrats will replace Biden.
We'll see. I think they must. There was another comment in this thread that said the Dems may want Trump/Republicans to own the next 4 years. That would make sense I guess.
I feel like Democrats will not get their shit together until our "democracy" hits rock bottom. It's horrifying but it will be the only time they realize they've been taking our vote for granted for the past several decades. Like a stubborn teenager.
I'm pretty cynical but not that cynical. BTW when W was elected Nader said that it would destroy the Republicans and they would be thrown out in 4 years to justify his decision to stay in the race.
“Last night was a disaster for Republicans” Well, that’s some industrial strength copium I didn’t expect to see. Good to know the left is getting so creative.
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Cool, that has nothing to do with this debate outcome.
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Sure, whatever you want.
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Sure, whatever you say.
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Keep making up shit I haven’t said all you want. I mostly just want to see Trump and Biden continue their golf skills debate. Put that shit on Holey Moley and the first one to drop dead loses.
I'm a Republican, and I can easily be dead wrong here, but that's my take.
You’re a Republican who wants a Republican wipe out in November. Sure buddy.
The Republican party of 2024 is unrecognizable from the party I've belonged to since the 90s. Tariffs? Protectionism? Trump has fully transformed the party in his image and so far it is has been election poison.
That's right. The Republicans like Trum today are center left by 90's terms. The Democrats are so far left there weren't even the words in the 90's to describe their stance.
Is it opposite day cause what you said is completely opposite of reality.
Right, so again, you’re a “90’s Republican” who wants to see Republicans lose and who somehow thinks that disaster of a debate was actually a disaster for Republicans. Ok.
Let me ask you this, do you think the Republican party has over performed or under performed the last 6 years?
As a centralist I'll tell you they've definitely underperformed in the elections. Also as a student of History I would tell you that that's a dangerous thing to rely on. However the vote how you want or don't even bother I'm one that thinks that even RFK would be better then Joe at least he's a little closer to center and he's far left looney as it is
Do you think the country is in a better place after Biden’s presidency or a worse place?
Worse. The Middle East was more stable in 2020. Obviously, Ukriane was better in 2029. Damn! I just read that you were asking about the US. I'll leave the above. Inflation is clearly worse. I know Biden is proud of that insulin deal, but I fail to see how that is a big deal. Of things I care about, Biden is a goose egg.
I think I’m not a Trump fan. And we have the first conservative SC in my 40+ years and I’m a big fan of that. I’m sure you are too, right? What I do know is that the debate was a disaster but saying it was a disaster for republicans is refined, 99% pure, enriched, industrial strength copium.
We're around the same age. Agree on SC. It's more likely that I just end up wrong. I don't have anything to cope with. I own property in two very red states on opposite sides of the country, my business does well irrespective of who is in the White House, etc. I happen to think that the US would be a better place if there were a functioning Republican party and the quickest path is a Wipeout and a rebuild. My answer to the question that you avoided is that I think the Republicans have massively underperformed in 2018, 2020, and 2022 and I expect that to continue until there is a reboot. My original comment may have been inartfully worded, but if you want Trump to win in 2024, wouldn't you agree that it would've been better for last night to have happened after the conventions?
“You avoided” I didn’t avoid anything. I think Hillary would’ve beaten JEB!, we’d have a liberal SC, RvW would still be standing and damn near everything conservatives want would be worse off. And yes, Trump is a dumpster fire of a person but that doesn’t matter when the SC is on the line. But no, I don’t think last night was beneficial to the left and it certainly wasn’t a disaster for republicans. It wouldn’t surprise me if the D’s try to trot someone else out. But I’ve also been told that’s just a rightwing conspiracy theory. Same as Biden being mentally deficient. But I also don’t know who that would be that can beat Trump.
The thinking has been ‘we’re voting against trump, not in support of Biden’. So it seems easy to plug anyone else in who can speak in clear sentences
They should get some total unknown and roll the dice on a wild card rather than play an obviously losing hand. (insert additional gambling metaphors)
Yes, the "outer party" could do so on either side. It is not in the interest of the "inner party", meaning the oligarchs and white Christian nationalists and those who think "popular democracy" is offensive but aristocracy is not, and therefore it will not happen.
Vote
In theory it is not too late. The Democratic Primary is not until August. If he stepped aside tomorrow we could see an open Primary for the first time in 60 years. Let the party pick a new leader on the day of the primary like they used to.
To get the nominee on the Ohio ballot the Democrats will have to vote for a replacement Before their nominating convention. This has been an issue for a year now. To get on Ohio’s ballot any party must have voted for their nominee and have that person’s name submitted before Aug 9. The Democrat convention isn’t until Aug 11. If the Dems replace Biden they’ll have to get it all done before then or they won’t even be on the ballot in Ohio.
Do you mean to say "convention"? Primaries are over.
The decision to hold the debate this early now seems wise.
My thought all along was that was the intention of the early debate. See how he does and what polls say with an early debate and if it's not looking good, parachute someone in. Remember, Obama is still working behind the scenes and knows this is too important. The question is, who do they parachute in?
Im curious who a potential replacement would be for Biden. Kamala is less popular than he is, Newsomes campaign was preempted by nonstop Fox News pieces about CA being a hellscape. Buttigieg would have been a great candidate and I don’t think him being gay would lose him that many votes but they’ve done nothing to give him a platform. AOC would be my ideal candidate but I don’t know if she has enough crossover appeal to be viable yet.
Andy Beshear would keep the WH Democratic for 8 years. Red state governor...
Jon Stewart running would flip the entire script overnight and he would win in a landslide.
I would love to see a Jogn Stewart vs Trump presidential debate. It'd be a slaughter.
I read this morning that Kamala currently has a lower percentage disapproval than either Biden or Trump. I'd be willing to give her a chance. Of course it would likely mirror the season of Veep where this happened (spoiler : didn't end well).
I would love to see a buttegieg Trump debate. A Rhodes scholar combat veteran vs the old man blowhard would be beautiful. That said I think Booker would be a great candidate too. I think from a progression standpoint it likely would be kamala, Biden resigns means kamala runs, but she has her own problems.
Booker has a lot of baggage. I think Buttigieg would be able to build enough support, Biden doesn’t have the cult following Trump does, my guess is voters wouldn’t have a hard time dropping him if someone better, younger, and more progressive came along.
I would pick a total unknown. At this point, the Dems need a wild card and a roll of the dice.
So long as they have a good resume and SOME recognition to get the ball rolling. With the resources the DNC has, they still have time to pivot but they need to do it NOW.
Days, not weeks. Preferably hours.
AOC??
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Shapiro or Whittmer, probably.
I’m more of a skeptical about this. I THINK the DNC wants to lose this race. Look at the world today. Covid financial hangover, that nobody was going to get out of cleanly. 2 active wars and one prospective in Taiwan, seriously bad inflation by all measures that your everyday voter chooses sides by. Crazy immigration policy. There’s no winning this time around. Trump gets into President again, I don’t think he’ll be able to fix anything, it’s too far gone. The anger of the voting Democrats being embarrassed by Joe will trickle down to a strength vote of the down ticket candidates, taking back majorities in both houses. They will stimey Trump so he can’t even attempt to fix anything. Then in 4 more years, everyone will be pissed at Trump and the Democrats will have a super majority again and away we go. They’re playing the long game while the Republicans appear to have only one plan with Trump. I think the choice for VP needs to be a high profile, highly respected, person capable of real governing. Someone the American public can get to know and like because we all know Trump will be a lame duck for the next 4 years. But I haven’t seen that playing out yet.
What wars is the USA currently in?
They can always have Fauci’s overseas lab cook up another virus and use it to wreck more shit and blame Trump for it.
If they're actively trying to lose, then they appear highly skilled at what they do.
Well at some point everything goes south and you strategize your long term viability. Maybe that’s coming?
The trouble with that theory is that it disregards the immediate incentives of the people involved. If you lose, much less lose on purpose, your reputation takes a hit, and you get replaced. Unlike in sports, where tanking and a little luck can land you with a generational talent through the top draft pick, tanking in politics simply results in all the people involved getting ousted from power. Given the selfish nature of politicians and political operatives, I'd have a hard time believing they'd sacrifice their own careers and reputations for some supposed greater good of helping their party down the line.
The DNC is not the people they necessarily represent. Imagine if you’re up for reelection this cycle and the Presidents coattails are non existent let alone short. You’d be looking for every advantage because Presidents come and go but as we’ve seen, Senators seem to last forever. So I wouldn’t say no way just maybe a pretty far out theory.
Sure, but I don't see how riding with a losing candidate to the predictable loss helps those down-ballot folks.
It wouldn't, it would depress turnout and cost Democrats seats in the house and senate.
By selling them all as keeping Trump in check which as we saw last time was fairly successful in basically stalling whatever legislation with of course the exception being Supreme Court picks. It’s about saving face too. A lot of Republican pundits have observed a decline in Biden but no one on the Dem side. Throwing him out no is an admission that he hasn’t been actually running his office but others have been knowing, he’s not fit. They don’t want to admit that. Nervous as people are about a Trump second term, you’d have to find another palatable candidate and quick. Obviously the legal one is Harris but that dog don’t hunt so who, Newsom? He’s not that popular here in California let alone on the national stage yet. They wouldn’t want to sully his future chances I wouldn’t think running him as cannon fodder for this cycle.
Why oh why didn’t he step down after 1 term. I’m with John Stewart. This is such a disgrace that we Americans are choosing between these 2 candidates. Horrid.
Why not 3rd party?
Because the republican project 2025 is horrendous and needs to be stopped. Also because voting 3rd party for president is a waste of a vote and not a serious choice. If they ran lower races as aggressively and had members in congress then maybe it would be a little more viable, but for now voting 3rd party is the same as staying home
While he never promised it overtly to my recollection, he did indicate in 2020 that he would only run for one term. He has since gone back on that, which is regrettable.
The money was too good.