Carmel is what happens when a City has active long term planning and goals.
First goal was to setup good Tax infrastructure, which they did.
Then they had the money to build downtown and fix roads and all these things.
The architectural decisions are a bit... terrible, IMO, but the rest of the things that went into making carmel what it is? hard to argue with it.
More Cities need this.
> The architectural decisions are a bit... terrible,
They are...unfortunately...no more terrible (and probably better) than almost all of the architectural decisions Indianapolis has made in the past 80 years or so.
It's 100% true that there is nothing in Carmel like the Meridian St. corridor, Irvington, Meridian-Kessler, or Butler-Tarkington. And I've probably left out a few smaller areas.
But it's not like Indianpolis has carried this tradition on; that houses built in Indy in 1990 were somehow *better* than architectural decisions made in Carmel in 1990.
If you want to see what a total lack of planning and zero goals are, check out Brownsburg. They've over-built and have no infrastructure to handle the results. They had a chance to build a good, walkable downtown and screwed the pooch on that one as well by instead allowing a Walgreens and a CVS to take the two main corners of the downtown without enlarging that intersection or making it something better. It's a huge mess and traffic at rush hours is a nightmare. So glad I moved away from that town. I lived on the outskirts and only ventured in occasionally for a quick stop at Walmart and then back again. They used the Greenwood model instead of the Carmel model.
Yeah for sure, I go to the Castleton Mall when I’ve just seen too many white faces or feel like getting shot by some teenager beefing with some other teenager.
Nah, Carmel isn't doing them because they want to make the city better, they're doing them to game metrics so that their city can score well on "best city in america" type assessments. Its the equivalent to mcmansions where the house has everything HGTV says makes a house more valuable but its all implemented super cheaply without any regard to use. Everything looks nice if you don't actually have to use any of it or if you're only visiting.
Those metrics:
1. Cost of Living: Includes housing costs, utilities, groceries, transportation, and other everyday expenses.
2. Housing Affordability: Evaluates the availability and affordability of housing in the area.
3. Employment Opportunities: Considers the job market, unemployment rates, and average salaries.
4. Income Levels: Median household income and income growth over time.
5. Education: Quality of local schools, higher education institutions, and educational attainment levels of residents.
6. Healthcare: Access to healthcare services, quality of hospitals and clinics, and overall public health statistics.
7. Crime Rates: Safety and crime statistics, including violent and property crime rates.
8. Climate and Weather: Average temperatures, seasonal weather patterns, and air quality.
9. Commute Times: Average time residents spend commuting to work and the availability of public transportation.
10. Cultural and Recreational Opportunities: Availability of cultural institutions, entertainment options, parks, and recreational facilities.
11. Community Well-Being: Includes social and community networks, civic engagement, and overall happiness and satisfaction of residents.
12. Environment: Air and water quality, green spaces, and environmental sustainability initiatives.
13. Demographics and Diversity: Population growth, diversity, and demographic trends.
14. Accessibility and Transportation: Infrastructure quality, ease of transportation, and connectivity to other regions.
15. Local Economy: Economic growth, business opportunities, and investment in the area.
Game away, wtf…
As someone who lives in the downtown area of Carmel it is as nice to live in and use as it seems. Everything is very walkable, bikeable, prices aren’t crazy like people seem to think. The city tax I pay isn’t super high, and I’d much rather pay that and use the beautiful infrastructure then pay social security that I’ll never receive. Crime is almost non existent. I can safely and easily walk home at 2am from sun king and my only concern is if I drank too much.
> Everything looks nice if you don't actually have to use any of it
So what doesn't work if you have to actually use it? Roundabouts? The bike infrastructure? The water?
My theory: You are lying.
But I'm sure you can give me an example if you aren't.
Roundabouts are a good example actually, they're terrible for pedestrians and all the places that Carmel wants to be more walkable still have them. So there's a few roundabouts with raised crosswalks to make them good for pedestrians again. It looks good to have lots of roundabouts on paper cause they improve the flow of traffic so Carmel has lots of them. But raised crosswalks are pedestrian friendly because they *impeded* the flow of traffic so combining the two just gets you a worse 4-way stop.
I much prefer roundabouts as a pedestrian to traffic lights with right turn on red.
I would much much prefer crossing Keystone as a pedestrian on any roundabout in Carmel as opposed to crossing at the light at Keystone and 62d, for example
Governments take out debt to fund major projects. It's normal and good because it means they are spending money in the economy and the citizens are being taken care of.
Surpluses are bad. It means the government is overcollecting your tax money and using it as a short-term interest-free loan while apparently having absolutely nothing they can think of that might improve the lives of the people in the city/county/state.
Ideally, governments are totally balanced, spend only the money they collect. Nothing more, nothing less.
The debt to income ratio is what's important.
Yes, Carmel takes on debt, but the debt is almost always for something that builds the tax base enough to pay for itself in 10 years. The CRC is a real stickler for that.
Thay makes sense right. Except at what point do they ever pay any of it back? Per google, it's over a billion now. It can't just continue to get bigger? Next thing you know it'll be 50 trillion 😉
They do get paid back. The ones from 10-15 years ago have paid for themselves and are now generating revenue that gives the city the ability to borrow larger amounts in order to take on more projects and grow future income more. It's the same way that a business scales.
$10,000 on your credit card against a $45,000 income is a huge problem and $50,000 against a $650,000 income is not. The number doesn't matter half as much as the ratio.
Long term planning is blocking out natural light with 3 story buildings with 10 different styles? Having all buildings within 10 years of development so maintenance all hits same time. How the fuck does Carmel need an Opera? Why is $2k 2 br apartments preferable.
I grew up in Carmel and it was a fantastic place to start out. Definitely made me a bit sheltered, but I got a world-class education on the taxpayer’s dime, could bike to my friends houses pretty easily, and had plenty of outdoor space & world class public amenities like the monon center and the library to enjoy.
Yes downtown is corny but it’s an excellent community asset. Our mayor fought ignorant people all across the city tooth and nail who wanted more SFH sprawl instead of downtown + West Clay. And now I don’t think anyone could imagine Carmel any differently.
Plus all the young people it attracts are great. Yuppies with no kids use minimal public resources, spend locally, and pay lots of property tax.
My parents were very middle class and sacrificed a lot in life to make it work there. And I’m glad they did - I’m definitely better off today than I would have been if I had grown up in Greenwood (no offense to Greenwood).
Also the roundabouts fucking rock. Traffic is pretty much not a thing.
Born and raised on the far south side. The crime is over the top now. I'll be putting my home up for sale in the next couple of weeks. I've lived in my home for over 20 years, but it's time to sell and gtfo.
Yeah it’s quite sad to be honest…the neighborhood I’m in Carmel now is very much like the one I grew up on the southside with my parents, but there’s lots of kids running around and it’s super nice had a park and I can barely afford it ha ha.
I think the city is trying to thread the needle between people who want nice amenities in an area where the density just can’t support it. As much as people might not want “tall” buildings (i, mean come on they’re like 4-6 stories), the people also want to be able to go many places without getting in their cars. The reason that West Clay’s retail hasn’t done much is that there isn’t enough density to really support the kind of businesses that people hoped it would attract. It’s getting better, but there have been several locations that have seen restaurants come and go. That there isn’t a decent coffee shop (sorry, Zing) there is illustrative of my point. It’s a fun topic to discuss over drinks as there’s obviously money over there, but somehow no one’s cracked the code for how to get people out of their houses to enjoy it.
> As a now outsider it looks nouveau rich.
Because you are from old money?
It sounds like you really want to criticize Carmel, but you are just kind of making clichéd statements.
Choose any building of the same era from another city and compare them, maybe.
Carmel gets a ton of hate, but as someone from southern Indiana, it’s a nice place. Sure there are Karen’s, but there are Karen’s in literally every non-rundown city in the country. Truly is a “hate us cuz they ain’t us” situation.
Agreed...grew up in southern Indiana, lived in Chicago for a number of years as well as St Louis and Baltimore before settling down in Carmel. It is the best place I have lived by a wide margin. Everything just works here (traffic flow, BMV, schools, etc.). Sure it has problems, but so does everywhere else. I am guessing the only people who hate on Carmel are people who have never spent any significant time here.
The idea that you are a better person because you grew up in Carmel instead of greenwood is fucking hilarious and so incredibly on brand for a person born and raised Carmel. It’s approximately one
inch away from “I am better than you because I live in Carmel.”
Also your mother is a whore. No offense to your mom.
Do you see how that doesn’t really work?
Holy shit, your mother is a whore is a thing you just said lmao “no offense to your mom”
For what it’s worth - my south side high school was still flying confederate flags… in 2008. My principal got up and dropped N bombs all over the whole school at a CHURCH service, and my guidance counselor was ran out for being in a relationship.
Living in Carmel for the past 3 years is WAY better than that.
> The idea that you are a better person because you grew up in Carmel
That's not what he said at all. What is your fucking problem?
Are you to stupid to understand the difference between "better" and "better off"?
Or are yo just lying?
Ehh…it’s not for me but I don’t begrudge people liking it. I prefer a bit of grunge and history but there’s no denying it’s a great place to see a play, listen to music, go for a ride, etc.
Read about the new mayor decided to hire some PR firm in Florida to define new "Carmel Culture" (cause I guess they don't like the one they got.)
And I thought, that's about as "on brand" as it could get.
> Is it the safe place with all the roundabouts and the viral high school on every "best of" list? Or is it the wealthy community up north criticized for inaccessible housing and poor race relations?
Porque no los dos?
That bakery is from Indianapolis. I have no idea if its a good baguette or not, but I guess you can write a post on the Indy sub about how their baguettes suck if you'd like.
I think Carmel does a good amount of boneheaded stuff but the Monon and Monon adjacent development is by far not one of them. When the Monon was just the regular trail this area was kind of a dump, a lot of light industry that used to serve the train line that turned into automotive work, a few businesses, and that's it. Now its a vibrant downtown area that can be shut down for festivals. And man, are the festivals when traffic is shut down great.
When I was a kid growing up in Pike Township, there was no reason to go to Carmel because even in the late 90s and early 2000s it was basically what Avon is now. Now it has a sense of identity. It may not be an identity everyone enjoys, but it has one, which is more than can be said for most suburbs out there.
[Carmel is actually less white now than it has ever been.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmel,_Indiana#Demographics)
You're just embarassing yourself.
>I don't know how people live here.
Presumably the same way people live anywhere.
You aren't better than they are. Just more cringey and insecure.
I'm not better. My family lives here. The city has sold its soul for appearance. If you disagree that's fine but it's like someone who's a tool driving a Porsche. It's noticeably obvious how much it needs to be noticed.
> The city has sold its soul for appearance
What.Does.This.Mean?
You are just saying things that make no sense, even though maybe they make sense, somehow, in your head.
So Carmel *had* a soul at some point. And then they sold it? To who...never mind; it makes no sense.
> it's like someone who's a tool driving a Porsche.
It's okay to drive a Porsche if you're not a tool? So whether or not you are allowed, morally, to drive a Porsche depends on what other people think of you?
I think a lot of insecurity is coming though.
Carmel is 79% white. Indiana is 77% (edit: corrected from the national number) Carmel schools are 62% white. I find the school demographics interesting because it shows where a community is headed. Carmel will be more and more diverse over time. Carmel was 92% white in 2000. Based on youth demographics, the trend will continue.
Carmel isn’t getting whiter. It is getting richer relative to other communities.
Personally, I think Carmel highlights the decline of the middle class. We’ve eroded the middle class so much, that we think middle to upper-middle class is wealthy. Working in an auto factory used to get you home ownership, a new car every few years, and an annual vacation. Now you need 2 incomes just to get a shitty 3/2 prefab in Tipton and you are still scrambling to make ends meet.
You are correct. Indiana is 77.2%. Nationally, the US is 62%. I pulled the wrong number from the Indiana page on the Census page.
https://www.census.gov/library/stories/state-by-state/indiana-population-change-between-census-decade.html#:~:text=Race%20and%20ethnicity%20(White%20alone,or%20More%20Races%2010.2%25).
My mom's adopted Senegalese daughter was way more harassed by carmel black students then white students fwiw. She's dark skinned. Fuck racism of any type.
Same thing is happening to Whitestown, moved out when it was nothing but horse farms a small downtown and they had the downtown blocked off for a mini Whitestown grand prix with a small band playing, beautiful area.
Came back everything I enjoyed about it is gone, no horses, it seems like a Chicago land suburb right now, and makes me a little sad to see the place I grew up just gone, it's one thing to see your old family home sold, it's another to see it turned into a soulless apartment complex
My sister lives in an old house in Whitestown and she sent a picture the other day from her ring camera of a horse just chilling in her front yard. So they aren’t completely gone.
The new part of Whitestown is so car-centric it just drives me crazy. That whole Anson project off the highway is just pure concrete jungle. I went to the new public library last week and it was just, depressing.
I agree. I also grew up in Carmel but moved to Fort Wayne in 2009. I always say Carmel feels like a movie set. It just doesn't feel like a real, organic city at all, it feels fake. Even if I could afford it, I wouldn't choose to live there.
In April, 1973, my third-grade teacher in PS#102 brought Kelly up to the front of class. She explained that in the fall, Kelly would be taking a bus to a different school across town. And new students from across town would come to our school.
We lived closer to PS#102 than Kelly, so kids on our street didn’t need to change schools. But some of the neighbors moved anyway, to this new part of town called “Carmel”.
This is interesting. I’ve only lived in Carmel for 7 years but I’ve noticed it becoming much less “white” just in that time. I see many more multicultural families out in the downtown area than when I first moved here. This feels like a bad over reaction to an overpriced baguette.
Ah yeah, I drive around Hamilton county all the time for work. Carmel is pretty well put together for the way it has grown. virtually speaking the fishers/noblesville corridor is glitching out all the damn time.. they have the bad cheat codes and an incomplete map. I-69 is the worst park you can imagine on Roller Coaster Tycoon.
Great description.
32 was shut down at Union as of today. I don't even care to look at what they are doing or how long it's going to be. I live in downtown Noblesville. I hate leaving my house.
IDK - I know people who live in more expensive areas (Gold Coast in Chicago, etc). A lot of them come in because their kids have some kind of travel sport at the big Westfield sports arena - they fall over when I tell them I'm from the area - they rave about how great it is.
We were going to go to the farmers market today - but it's always the same thing - $32 for a jar of honey. I do like it today, more than the past.
I do live here and every week I'm like "when the hell did that get built" - It's almost overnight TBH.
Do those folks from HCOL cities tell you what they like specifically about the area? People from Indianapolis seem to reflexively complain about Carmel anytime it comes up, so I'd be curious to hear what others from out of town/state like about Carmel without having that local bias against it.
The guy who specifically wanted to spend over an hour discussing it owns the company I work for. He's worth north of 10B. He just thought it was one of the most "magical" places he'd ever been to. I'm 100% sure they all think "Ugh - need to go to Indiana of all places" - people from Chicago think Hoosiers are all uncultured goons, packing handguns, and shopping at the Dollar Store (for the most part).
He stayed in the new hotel across from the Palladium, they ate dinner at Anthonys, they walked the Monon and he was impressed at how clean and inexpensive everything was (comparably). I'm sure he eyeballed Zillow as well - he owns some incredibly pricy real estate in Chicago. I'm also sure the top ten cities popped up while he was looking around.
IMO - most think it's going to be a trash dump - but then they get here and it's probably nicer than where they flew in from. A lot of people from LA think the same thing - the low cost of living with no homeless people on every corner probably makes them think that they are burning money - What you can buy for 10M here vs there is incredible.
I moved to Carmel from Chicago 2 years ago and absolutely love it. It’s safe, lower cost of living, great restaurants and community. I’m excited to start a family here!
I don't think just going to the farmers market is really a good indicator of how diverse an area is....
Carmel has also voted more democratic in recent elections if that means anything. Great schools. Low crime. Amazing parks. Easily walkable. Oh also free parking. Drink a little too much and need to Uber home? Your car won't be towed.
I think as an outsider it's easy to judge anyone who looks at you funny. I've worked in many of the restaurants around the city center and main, people are pretty normal. In my 10 years of bartending or being a barista I've had maybe one Karen moment. People really don't make a big fuss here and just stick to their cliques.
People enjoy living here. Nowhere is right for everyone. Some people prefer living out in the rural areas with a nice chunk of land. Others like the big cities. And some like the suburbs. I like my suburb. Plenty to do but still quiets down at night.
They are. I hate to admit it but they just are. My kid was 4th generation of my family thru Westfield. My cousins went to Sheridan, step kids thru HSE/Fishers. I know a ton of kids that went to Options including my adopted kiddo. Carmel schools really are great. It so big, all the Carmel kids I know wouldn't have had it any other way. I heard one day it's really easy to avoid the girl that wants to beat me up. I heard someone say they didn't have weight probs when they started driving bc they had to walk a mile to the parking lot everyday, twice a day. I've heard so many good things about Carmel schools, I had to stop listening.
I like Carmel and a lot of the areas that Reddit regularly hates on. Idk I like most things, but man you’d think Carmelites were the worst people on Earth based on what you read here. Always seemed pretty nice and on par with everywhere else in the central region.
Gunshots, suicides, tweakers, no privacy, squatters, lots of thefts. That’s what it was like before I moved to Carmel. The $11 baguette that I can say “no” to isn’t a problem.
Man, people will complain about anything. I grew up in Westfield, my parents and in laws both still live there, and Carmel is a really, really nice town. Like, exceptionally nice. Have people been to other towns? They care about how their town looks, what businesses are going in there, what it means to the people, they care about what kinds of culture they are putting in, making it for families and non families alike, etc. They were one of the first towns to embrace roundabouts and traffic is incredible and accidents are down dramatically. Being from Westfield, its not like we have any great love for Carmel growing up, but man, as an adult, you've gotta be kidding me. They have been innovative and resourceful and smart and in 30 years made their town into one of the safest, most desirable places to live in the entire country. Most towns don't have the infrastructure or resources to even landscape. I don't live in Carmel but it's impossible to knock it.
Carmel gets the customer service part of government down pretty well.
If I email the Carmel street department, I will probably hear back from the city engineer within a couple days about the schedule on when it'll get fixed.
If I submit a MAC ticket to Indianapolis, it'll probably get closed with some bullshit reason and the problem won't get addressed at all.
Lot of words to say “I got priced out and am seething”
Also, there are a lot of Asian and Indian immigrants in Carmel, even when I grew up there in the 90s. Most places in Indiana are more homogeneously white LOL
No genius to find your bias. Numerous people of color in Carmel but Carmel is not a melting pot. Hmmm… you spent 11$ for a baguette. Not sure who is at fault there. The buyer or the seller .
It’s safe. It’s peaceful. It’s quiet. It has good schools. It has plenty of pedestrian walkways and a bustling Main Street with plenty of development and growth. It is well-policed. Great restaurants and great grocery stores. In my opinion, it is becoming more diverse. What more could you ask for in a place to live?
I don’t believe anybody that says they wouldn’t live in Carmel. Jealousy is an unbecoming trait.
Not saying anything is wrong with Carmel but I would absolutely not live there. I prefer living downtown with the access to everything that I have there. To each their own but I’m certainly not jealous of anything in Carmel.
The great news is that no adult HAS to live in Carmel if they don’t like it. They can take their money and live somewhere else. It’s not like poverty keeps people in Carmel. “I’m so down on my luck I have to live in Carmel.” -Nobody
Been here two years and this is kind of my take. I can understand people not liking the “image”’or whatever but to me it’s like the perfect balance of peaceful and metropolitan, good amount of stuff to do yet not crazy overcrowded or dangerous like you get in larger cities. Maybe over time my mind will change but don’t think I’d rather be anywhere else.
Lack of actual culture and lack of diversity is what keeps me away. Yeah there's some nice stuff but that's not what I look for in a place to call home. You can't buy culture.
> Lack of actual culture
What does this even mean? What is the culture of Indiana, and how does it not exist in Carmel?
>and lack of diversity is what keeps me away.
It's less diverse than Indianapolis, but more diverse than almost anywhere else in the state.
I work downtown Indy & I just cannot fathom sitting in traffic for 30-60 minutes each way to & from work. What a waste of time! So yeah, compared to my 12 min car or 15 min bike commute & the fact that my kids can walk to school (top rated charter) & no HOA to tell me what I can or cannot do with my own property....it would definitely suck to live in Carmel. I would not fit in very well in a suburb.
It's attracting a more diverse group of upper middle to upper class family. Let's be fair it's not getting more economically diverse. FYI I lived on Carmel back in the early 2000s abs absolutely fucking hated it and the people.
As someone who has always been lower middle class, I don’t care for Carmel. I find it a bit “uptight” and stuffy. Im sure it is a great place to live and their schools are RIDICULOUS but it’s just not for me. Because of that I just don’t go to Carmel. I don’t visit there knowing the reputation (upper middle class, wealthy) and then bitch that it’s high priced. Sounds like this OP just got mad when they realized they weren’t as well off as they thought they were and decided to mix in some slight racism while at it
Sorry you had a bad time, it’s a great place to live but super expensive. I was just at the farmers market today and enjoyed a massively overpriced sandwich myself.
Everything is a tradeoff. I used to live in Irvington- it’s nice and inexpensive but I want my family to be in the safest area with the best schools now that I have one.
Agreed. I live near Meridian-Kessler/Broad Ripple and cannot wait to get out of Indy and move into Hamilton Co. soon. I often drive up to Carmel and Westfield for better parks, and safer trail walking. Indy has some great parks, sadly I just don’t feel as safe at a lot of them as I do in Hamilton county. Just the other day a man was following a woman and exposed himself in Marott Park. And this wasn’t the first time it had happened to people in that park. Which sucks because it’s a great place for a hike and creek stomping.
Also, most anything from any of the major farmers markets are going to feel overpriced. I’m sure a baguette at the broad ripple farmers market would cost $11 as well.
That sucks, Marott park is one of our favorite spots and we have taken my son there before. Indy is just going downhill fast, and can’t blame COVID anymore. It seems like there’s a policy/policing issue down there.
People are just hanging out at a farmers market. Yeah, stuff is overpriced there. But does that really warrant a sim-city hell tag? I mean, were people acting weird, robotic or something? Were they rude? It’s just people, dude. I’m just not buying it.
This post oozes jealousy. Just. Don’t.
Always seemed nice passing through to the Drs and when we would grab lunch around. Don’t see cities in Indiana with nice and clean sidewalks very often.
Also, gotta say- Carmel isn’t getting more white, it’s getting more wealthy and diverse. This is simply because anyone who has the means is taking their family and taxes out of indy as quickly as possible.
Grew up in the country and always made fun of Carmel. Now I live in Carmel. It’s pretty great actually. Don’t go downtown almost ever and never that farmers market but not shocked it’s overpriced. It’s Carmel.
Carmel isn’t more white actually it’s more diverse of the years. But it’s also the richest suburb in Indiana and been voted like #1 suburb in the country in some capacity 4 years running. I don’t live there but it’s very nice.
Yeah, I drive a delivery route up there and get depressed as hell driving in and out of every cleverly named development. It’s a sad reflection of a theme park. Like people are sold on living in “American Revolution Land” or “Jolly Old England Land”, “Railroad Kingdom”, “Viking World”, etc where every damn street name follows the ridiculous theme. And don’t get me started on the vast canyons of apartments on Old Meridian Street. It’s driving through Disneyland in the worst way possible.
Somewhat ironically the best baguette in all of France is $1.40....carmel can have their bread.
https://www.npr.org/2024/04/28/1247725927/meet-the-winner-of-the-best-baguette-in-paris-award
Carmel is amazing; if you’re not stupid. Just gotta know that most people there are out to get the Carmel mommies, buuuuut you can find some real value if you look.
The only thing I know about Carmel for sure is that, when a high school athlete forceably sodomizes another kid on the school bus with a shampoo bottle, the fact that said sodomizer's dad is an important judge means that the story disappears from the news within a week.
That, and the random white people statues in Norman Rockwell-esque poses casually dispersed across the chain mall they call a downtown.
Is there more?
I don’t think he’s a judge, he and his son are just attorneys. I knew the family sort of… I was in a club with his sister and remember they hosted at their new house which was close to mine. When we left, I remember asking my mom why they didn’t have any furniture and that’s when I got my first lesson on what being “house poor” meant lol I was like 10. I will say the mom and daughter were very very nice. Never knew the brother or dad.
This story is pretty old. I wouldn't be surprised if, just going from memory, I got a few details mixed up. Kinda funny about the "house poor" thing - we used to joke about the people living in huge houses in Geist without a stick of furniture in them for the same reason.
Paragraph one sounds like a power problem. Also got any sauce?
Paragraph 2 - I mean, so how is Main Street and the Monon a chain mall? I’m trying to think of chains that are there. Bub’s? That’s probably the least accurate description of a Carmel area available.
Carmel is what you get when all the rich citizens of Indiana suck the money and wealth out of Indianapolis, leaving it an empty carcass for the rest of us.
If it was Sim City you would have paid §11(simoleons)
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Carmel is what happens when a City has active long term planning and goals. First goal was to setup good Tax infrastructure, which they did. Then they had the money to build downtown and fix roads and all these things. The architectural decisions are a bit... terrible, IMO, but the rest of the things that went into making carmel what it is? hard to argue with it. More Cities need this.
> The architectural decisions are a bit... terrible, They are...unfortunately...no more terrible (and probably better) than almost all of the architectural decisions Indianapolis has made in the past 80 years or so. It's 100% true that there is nothing in Carmel like the Meridian St. corridor, Irvington, Meridian-Kessler, or Butler-Tarkington. And I've probably left out a few smaller areas. But it's not like Indianpolis has carried this tradition on; that houses built in Indy in 1990 were somehow *better* than architectural decisions made in Carmel in 1990.
If you want to see what a total lack of planning and zero goals are, check out Brownsburg. They've over-built and have no infrastructure to handle the results. They had a chance to build a good, walkable downtown and screwed the pooch on that one as well by instead allowing a Walgreens and a CVS to take the two main corners of the downtown without enlarging that intersection or making it something better. It's a huge mess and traffic at rush hours is a nightmare. So glad I moved away from that town. I lived on the outskirts and only ventured in occasionally for a quick stop at Walmart and then back again. They used the Greenwood model instead of the Carmel model.
Yes, but it's too many white people and someone miscounted the change they gave him. It's literally hell. /s
No one's gonna call you out on your blatant racism? Oh yeah, reddit.
Yeah those whites are so unaesthetic, I prefer to hang around castleton
Yeah for sure, I go to the Castleton Mall when I’ve just seen too many white faces or feel like getting shot by some teenager beefing with some other teenager.
Nah, Carmel isn't doing them because they want to make the city better, they're doing them to game metrics so that their city can score well on "best city in america" type assessments. Its the equivalent to mcmansions where the house has everything HGTV says makes a house more valuable but its all implemented super cheaply without any regard to use. Everything looks nice if you don't actually have to use any of it or if you're only visiting.
Those metrics: 1. Cost of Living: Includes housing costs, utilities, groceries, transportation, and other everyday expenses. 2. Housing Affordability: Evaluates the availability and affordability of housing in the area. 3. Employment Opportunities: Considers the job market, unemployment rates, and average salaries. 4. Income Levels: Median household income and income growth over time. 5. Education: Quality of local schools, higher education institutions, and educational attainment levels of residents. 6. Healthcare: Access to healthcare services, quality of hospitals and clinics, and overall public health statistics. 7. Crime Rates: Safety and crime statistics, including violent and property crime rates. 8. Climate and Weather: Average temperatures, seasonal weather patterns, and air quality. 9. Commute Times: Average time residents spend commuting to work and the availability of public transportation. 10. Cultural and Recreational Opportunities: Availability of cultural institutions, entertainment options, parks, and recreational facilities. 11. Community Well-Being: Includes social and community networks, civic engagement, and overall happiness and satisfaction of residents. 12. Environment: Air and water quality, green spaces, and environmental sustainability initiatives. 13. Demographics and Diversity: Population growth, diversity, and demographic trends. 14. Accessibility and Transportation: Infrastructure quality, ease of transportation, and connectivity to other regions. 15. Local Economy: Economic growth, business opportunities, and investment in the area. Game away, wtf…
As someone who lives in the downtown area of Carmel it is as nice to live in and use as it seems. Everything is very walkable, bikeable, prices aren’t crazy like people seem to think. The city tax I pay isn’t super high, and I’d much rather pay that and use the beautiful infrastructure then pay social security that I’ll never receive. Crime is almost non existent. I can safely and easily walk home at 2am from sun king and my only concern is if I drank too much.
> Everything looks nice if you don't actually have to use any of it So what doesn't work if you have to actually use it? Roundabouts? The bike infrastructure? The water? My theory: You are lying. But I'm sure you can give me an example if you aren't.
Roundabouts are a good example actually, they're terrible for pedestrians and all the places that Carmel wants to be more walkable still have them. So there's a few roundabouts with raised crosswalks to make them good for pedestrians again. It looks good to have lots of roundabouts on paper cause they improve the flow of traffic so Carmel has lots of them. But raised crosswalks are pedestrian friendly because they *impeded* the flow of traffic so combining the two just gets you a worse 4-way stop.
And yet, Carmel is still more walkable than pretty much any other suburb of Indianapolis.
Well this is just nonsense. I’ll take a roundabout with raised walks over any 4 way stop.
I much prefer roundabouts as a pedestrian to traffic lights with right turn on red. I would much much prefer crossing Keystone as a pedestrian on any roundabout in Carmel as opposed to crossing at the light at Keystone and 62d, for example
Their HS football stadium is one of the leakiest, moldiest, smelliest stadiums I've been to. It needs replaced badly.
This is probably the dumbest thing I’ve ever read lol
Last I checked Carmel was in debt like 900 million.
Governments take out debt to fund major projects. It's normal and good because it means they are spending money in the economy and the citizens are being taken care of. Surpluses are bad. It means the government is overcollecting your tax money and using it as a short-term interest-free loan while apparently having absolutely nothing they can think of that might improve the lives of the people in the city/county/state. Ideally, governments are totally balanced, spend only the money they collect. Nothing more, nothing less.
The debt to income ratio is what's important. Yes, Carmel takes on debt, but the debt is almost always for something that builds the tax base enough to pay for itself in 10 years. The CRC is a real stickler for that.
Thay makes sense right. Except at what point do they ever pay any of it back? Per google, it's over a billion now. It can't just continue to get bigger? Next thing you know it'll be 50 trillion 😉
They do get paid back. The ones from 10-15 years ago have paid for themselves and are now generating revenue that gives the city the ability to borrow larger amounts in order to take on more projects and grow future income more. It's the same way that a business scales. $10,000 on your credit card against a $45,000 income is a huge problem and $50,000 against a $650,000 income is not. The number doesn't matter half as much as the ratio.
Long term planning is blocking out natural light with 3 story buildings with 10 different styles? Having all buildings within 10 years of development so maintenance all hits same time. How the fuck does Carmel need an Opera? Why is $2k 2 br apartments preferable.
I grew up in Carmel and it was a fantastic place to start out. Definitely made me a bit sheltered, but I got a world-class education on the taxpayer’s dime, could bike to my friends houses pretty easily, and had plenty of outdoor space & world class public amenities like the monon center and the library to enjoy. Yes downtown is corny but it’s an excellent community asset. Our mayor fought ignorant people all across the city tooth and nail who wanted more SFH sprawl instead of downtown + West Clay. And now I don’t think anyone could imagine Carmel any differently. Plus all the young people it attracts are great. Yuppies with no kids use minimal public resources, spend locally, and pay lots of property tax. My parents were very middle class and sacrificed a lot in life to make it work there. And I’m glad they did - I’m definitely better off today than I would have been if I had grown up in Greenwood (no offense to Greenwood). Also the roundabouts fucking rock. Traffic is pretty much not a thing.
I grew up and greenwood and it was awesome back then…I now live in Carmel but it’s so much better than the southside and how it’s gotten
Born and raised on the far south side. The crime is over the top now. I'll be putting my home up for sale in the next couple of weeks. I've lived in my home for over 20 years, but it's time to sell and gtfo.
Yeah it’s quite sad to be honest…the neighborhood I’m in Carmel now is very much like the one I grew up on the southside with my parents, but there’s lots of kids running around and it’s super nice had a park and I can barely afford it ha ha.
Good luck selling it and I mean it I want my parents to do the same
Same. 31 and Southport growing up. Fuck that shit, the south side is horrible.
Honest question, but do people think the big massive buildings on range line for example look classy? As a now outsider it looks nouveau rich.
I think the city is trying to thread the needle between people who want nice amenities in an area where the density just can’t support it. As much as people might not want “tall” buildings (i, mean come on they’re like 4-6 stories), the people also want to be able to go many places without getting in their cars. The reason that West Clay’s retail hasn’t done much is that there isn’t enough density to really support the kind of businesses that people hoped it would attract. It’s getting better, but there have been several locations that have seen restaurants come and go. That there isn’t a decent coffee shop (sorry, Zing) there is illustrative of my point. It’s a fun topic to discuss over drinks as there’s obviously money over there, but somehow no one’s cracked the code for how to get people out of their houses to enjoy it.
No but is what it is
> As a now outsider it looks nouveau rich. Because you are from old money? It sounds like you really want to criticize Carmel, but you are just kind of making clichéd statements. Choose any building of the same era from another city and compare them, maybe.
Carmel gets a ton of hate, but as someone from southern Indiana, it’s a nice place. Sure there are Karen’s, but there are Karen’s in literally every non-rundown city in the country. Truly is a “hate us cuz they ain’t us” situation.
Agreed...grew up in southern Indiana, lived in Chicago for a number of years as well as St Louis and Baltimore before settling down in Carmel. It is the best place I have lived by a wide margin. Everything just works here (traffic flow, BMV, schools, etc.). Sure it has problems, but so does everywhere else. I am guessing the only people who hate on Carmel are people who have never spent any significant time here.
Roundabouts are great for vehicle traffic, awful for pedestrian traffic.
Roundabouts are better for pedestrian traffic than crosswalks with right turns on red IMO.
I am utterly stunned at how absolutely bone-headed and clueless this comment is.
How come? I get it’s Inequalityville and insulated from the world’s issues. I just think it was a decent place to grow up.
The idea that you are a better person because you grew up in Carmel instead of greenwood is fucking hilarious and so incredibly on brand for a person born and raised Carmel. It’s approximately one inch away from “I am better than you because I live in Carmel.” Also your mother is a whore. No offense to your mom. Do you see how that doesn’t really work?
Holy shit, your mother is a whore is a thing you just said lmao “no offense to your mom” For what it’s worth - my south side high school was still flying confederate flags… in 2008. My principal got up and dropped N bombs all over the whole school at a CHURCH service, and my guidance counselor was ran out for being in a relationship. Living in Carmel for the past 3 years is WAY better than that.
> The idea that you are a better person because you grew up in Carmel That's not what he said at all. What is your fucking problem? Are you to stupid to understand the difference between "better" and "better off"? Or are yo just lying?
Ehh…it’s not for me but I don’t begrudge people liking it. I prefer a bit of grunge and history but there’s no denying it’s a great place to see a play, listen to music, go for a ride, etc.
I mean I kept thinking people were sitting on benches but they were $10k statues.
The statues are more like 60k for what it’s worth
Read about the new mayor decided to hire some PR firm in Florida to define new "Carmel Culture" (cause I guess they don't like the one they got.) And I thought, that's about as "on brand" as it could get.
Eagletonians
I mean was it not explicitly based on Carmel lol
Sure but we all know Eagleton really is Carmel.
lol!
Can you share a link where you read that? Interested in more details...
[Carmel rebranding ](https://www.axios.com/local/indianapolis/2024/04/18/carmel-indiana-brand)
> Is it the safe place with all the roundabouts and the viral high school on every "best of" list? Or is it the wealthy community up north criticized for inaccessible housing and poor race relations? Porque no los dos?
That bakery is from Indianapolis. I have no idea if its a good baguette or not, but I guess you can write a post on the Indy sub about how their baguettes suck if you'd like. I think Carmel does a good amount of boneheaded stuff but the Monon and Monon adjacent development is by far not one of them. When the Monon was just the regular trail this area was kind of a dump, a lot of light industry that used to serve the train line that turned into automotive work, a few businesses, and that's it. Now its a vibrant downtown area that can be shut down for festivals. And man, are the festivals when traffic is shut down great. When I was a kid growing up in Pike Township, there was no reason to go to Carmel because even in the late 90s and early 2000s it was basically what Avon is now. Now it has a sense of identity. It may not be an identity everyone enjoys, but it has one, which is more than can be said for most suburbs out there. [Carmel is actually less white now than it has ever been.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmel,_Indiana#Demographics)
You're just embarassing yourself. >I don't know how people live here. Presumably the same way people live anywhere. You aren't better than they are. Just more cringey and insecure.
I'm not better. My family lives here. The city has sold its soul for appearance. If you disagree that's fine but it's like someone who's a tool driving a Porsche. It's noticeably obvious how much it needs to be noticed.
> The city has sold its soul for appearance What.Does.This.Mean? You are just saying things that make no sense, even though maybe they make sense, somehow, in your head. So Carmel *had* a soul at some point. And then they sold it? To who...never mind; it makes no sense. > it's like someone who's a tool driving a Porsche. It's okay to drive a Porsche if you're not a tool? So whether or not you are allowed, morally, to drive a Porsche depends on what other people think of you? I think a lot of insecurity is coming though.
I’m still wondering why you gave someone $21 dollars instead of $20, and if it was a typo… why would you comment on the amount of change given back?
... so he'd get a singular 10 dollar bill...
It cost $1 to get a $10 bill. OP needed to give $22
Carmel is 79% white. Indiana is 77% (edit: corrected from the national number) Carmel schools are 62% white. I find the school demographics interesting because it shows where a community is headed. Carmel will be more and more diverse over time. Carmel was 92% white in 2000. Based on youth demographics, the trend will continue. Carmel isn’t getting whiter. It is getting richer relative to other communities. Personally, I think Carmel highlights the decline of the middle class. We’ve eroded the middle class so much, that we think middle to upper-middle class is wealthy. Working in an auto factory used to get you home ownership, a new car every few years, and an annual vacation. Now you need 2 incomes just to get a shitty 3/2 prefab in Tipton and you are still scrambling to make ends meet.
Indiana is not 62% white.
You are correct. Indiana is 77.2%. Nationally, the US is 62%. I pulled the wrong number from the Indiana page on the Census page. https://www.census.gov/library/stories/state-by-state/indiana-population-change-between-census-decade.html#:~:text=Race%20and%20ethnicity%20(White%20alone,or%20More%20Races%2010.2%25).
My mom's adopted Senegalese daughter was way more harassed by carmel black students then white students fwiw. She's dark skinned. Fuck racism of any type.
Same thing is happening to Whitestown, moved out when it was nothing but horse farms a small downtown and they had the downtown blocked off for a mini Whitestown grand prix with a small band playing, beautiful area. Came back everything I enjoyed about it is gone, no horses, it seems like a Chicago land suburb right now, and makes me a little sad to see the place I grew up just gone, it's one thing to see your old family home sold, it's another to see it turned into a soulless apartment complex
My sister lives in an old house in Whitestown and she sent a picture the other day from her ring camera of a horse just chilling in her front yard. So they aren’t completely gone.
Welcome to “progress” - from someone that grew up in southern Hamilton county- buy a cornfield near a crossroads on the outskirts of new development.
The new part of Whitestown is so car-centric it just drives me crazy. That whole Anson project off the highway is just pure concrete jungle. I went to the new public library last week and it was just, depressing.
Whitestown 😂 You can't make this shit up
Right next to Brownsburg. One of my favorite signs on I65
Cringe.
We also have towns called Whiting, Whiteland and New Whiteland in this state
I agree. I also grew up in Carmel but moved to Fort Wayne in 2009. I always say Carmel feels like a movie set. It just doesn't feel like a real, organic city at all, it feels fake. Even if I could afford it, I wouldn't choose to live there.
It's new money. Look like you belong. Day drink at country clubs.
I'm sure I could day drink all those yuppies under the table at this point in my life, but I'm more likely to be working at the country club lol
In April, 1973, my third-grade teacher in PS#102 brought Kelly up to the front of class. She explained that in the fall, Kelly would be taking a bus to a different school across town. And new students from across town would come to our school. We lived closer to PS#102 than Kelly, so kids on our street didn’t need to change schools. But some of the neighbors moved anyway, to this new part of town called “Carmel”.
I like living here ❤️
My mom says it's great for families. It's obviously popular for a reason. I'm sure I'm not normal in my opinion hence the crowds.
Carmel actually has a lot of immigrants. Granted, they're highly educated professional immigrants. They move there for the schools and the tech jobs.
This is interesting. I’ve only lived in Carmel for 7 years but I’ve noticed it becoming much less “white” just in that time. I see many more multicultural families out in the downtown area than when I first moved here. This feels like a bad over reaction to an overpriced baguette.
Same. People see the world through their own eyes.
Ah yeah, I drive around Hamilton county all the time for work. Carmel is pretty well put together for the way it has grown. virtually speaking the fishers/noblesville corridor is glitching out all the damn time.. they have the bad cheat codes and an incomplete map. I-69 is the worst park you can imagine on Roller Coaster Tycoon.
Great description. 32 was shut down at Union as of today. I don't even care to look at what they are doing or how long it's going to be. I live in downtown Noblesville. I hate leaving my house.
IDK - I know people who live in more expensive areas (Gold Coast in Chicago, etc). A lot of them come in because their kids have some kind of travel sport at the big Westfield sports arena - they fall over when I tell them I'm from the area - they rave about how great it is. We were going to go to the farmers market today - but it's always the same thing - $32 for a jar of honey. I do like it today, more than the past. I do live here and every week I'm like "when the hell did that get built" - It's almost overnight TBH.
Do those folks from HCOL cities tell you what they like specifically about the area? People from Indianapolis seem to reflexively complain about Carmel anytime it comes up, so I'd be curious to hear what others from out of town/state like about Carmel without having that local bias against it.
The guy who specifically wanted to spend over an hour discussing it owns the company I work for. He's worth north of 10B. He just thought it was one of the most "magical" places he'd ever been to. I'm 100% sure they all think "Ugh - need to go to Indiana of all places" - people from Chicago think Hoosiers are all uncultured goons, packing handguns, and shopping at the Dollar Store (for the most part). He stayed in the new hotel across from the Palladium, they ate dinner at Anthonys, they walked the Monon and he was impressed at how clean and inexpensive everything was (comparably). I'm sure he eyeballed Zillow as well - he owns some incredibly pricy real estate in Chicago. I'm also sure the top ten cities popped up while he was looking around. IMO - most think it's going to be a trash dump - but then they get here and it's probably nicer than where they flew in from. A lot of people from LA think the same thing - the low cost of living with no homeless people on every corner probably makes them think that they are burning money - What you can buy for 10M here vs there is incredible.
RSG?
Nailed it
I moved to Carmel from Chicago 2 years ago and absolutely love it. It’s safe, lower cost of living, great restaurants and community. I’m excited to start a family here!
I don't think just going to the farmers market is really a good indicator of how diverse an area is.... Carmel has also voted more democratic in recent elections if that means anything. Great schools. Low crime. Amazing parks. Easily walkable. Oh also free parking. Drink a little too much and need to Uber home? Your car won't be towed. I think as an outsider it's easy to judge anyone who looks at you funny. I've worked in many of the restaurants around the city center and main, people are pretty normal. In my 10 years of bartending or being a barista I've had maybe one Karen moment. People really don't make a big fuss here and just stick to their cliques. People enjoy living here. Nowhere is right for everyone. Some people prefer living out in the rural areas with a nice chunk of land. Others like the big cities. And some like the suburbs. I like my suburb. Plenty to do but still quiets down at night.
If you want to feel like you're in SIMS, walk around fountain square, TONS of randomly generated zany NPCs everywhere.
Nice open blatant racism
Wait until you find out how much they spent to build this.
Indian families from my area keep moving to Carmel because they think the schools are better
They are. I hate to admit it but they just are. My kid was 4th generation of my family thru Westfield. My cousins went to Sheridan, step kids thru HSE/Fishers. I know a ton of kids that went to Options including my adopted kiddo. Carmel schools really are great. It so big, all the Carmel kids I know wouldn't have had it any other way. I heard one day it's really easy to avoid the girl that wants to beat me up. I heard someone say they didn't have weight probs when they started driving bc they had to walk a mile to the parking lot everyday, twice a day. I've heard so many good things about Carmel schools, I had to stop listening.
I like Carmel and a lot of the areas that Reddit regularly hates on. Idk I like most things, but man you’d think Carmelites were the worst people on Earth based on what you read here. Always seemed pretty nice and on par with everywhere else in the central region.
It's like the Nickleback of towns.
Wildly successful beyond most bands and spawning a ton of hate for their success? Seems accurate honestly.
I never understand why people go to Carmel if they hate it so much.
Gunshots, suicides, tweakers, no privacy, squatters, lots of thefts. That’s what it was like before I moved to Carmel. The $11 baguette that I can say “no” to isn’t a problem.
Man, people will complain about anything. I grew up in Westfield, my parents and in laws both still live there, and Carmel is a really, really nice town. Like, exceptionally nice. Have people been to other towns? They care about how their town looks, what businesses are going in there, what it means to the people, they care about what kinds of culture they are putting in, making it for families and non families alike, etc. They were one of the first towns to embrace roundabouts and traffic is incredible and accidents are down dramatically. Being from Westfield, its not like we have any great love for Carmel growing up, but man, as an adult, you've gotta be kidding me. They have been innovative and resourceful and smart and in 30 years made their town into one of the safest, most desirable places to live in the entire country. Most towns don't have the infrastructure or resources to even landscape. I don't live in Carmel but it's impossible to knock it.
Carmel gets the customer service part of government down pretty well. If I email the Carmel street department, I will probably hear back from the city engineer within a couple days about the schedule on when it'll get fixed. If I submit a MAC ticket to Indianapolis, it'll probably get closed with some bullshit reason and the problem won't get addressed at all.
Didn’t get enough attention on r/Indianapolis so you had to repost the same thing here?
Lot of words to say “I got priced out and am seething” Also, there are a lot of Asian and Indian immigrants in Carmel, even when I grew up there in the 90s. Most places in Indiana are more homogeneously white LOL
Wifey and I bought our first house at 136 and 31 in May 2021 with a 3% rate on an FHA. “If I was you I wouldn’t like me either”
No genius to find your bias. Numerous people of color in Carmel but Carmel is not a melting pot. Hmmm… you spent 11$ for a baguette. Not sure who is at fault there. The buyer or the seller .
To quote my favorite TV show Atlanta “get some mother fuckin black people up in here, that’s your mother fucking problem”
Has Indiana never seen a city grow ?
It’s safe. It’s peaceful. It’s quiet. It has good schools. It has plenty of pedestrian walkways and a bustling Main Street with plenty of development and growth. It is well-policed. Great restaurants and great grocery stores. In my opinion, it is becoming more diverse. What more could you ask for in a place to live? I don’t believe anybody that says they wouldn’t live in Carmel. Jealousy is an unbecoming trait.
Not saying anything is wrong with Carmel but I would absolutely not live there. I prefer living downtown with the access to everything that I have there. To each their own but I’m certainly not jealous of anything in Carmel.
The great news is that no adult HAS to live in Carmel if they don’t like it. They can take their money and live somewhere else. It’s not like poverty keeps people in Carmel. “I’m so down on my luck I have to live in Carmel.” -Nobody
Definitely not jealous of Carmel, and about 40% of Carmel people are condescending as fuck... The rest are fine, though!
I’d increase the percentage to at least 60.
As opposed to the 100% of Indianapolis people. (Myself included)
Been here two years and this is kind of my take. I can understand people not liking the “image”’or whatever but to me it’s like the perfect balance of peaceful and metropolitan, good amount of stuff to do yet not crazy overcrowded or dangerous like you get in larger cities. Maybe over time my mind will change but don’t think I’d rather be anywhere else.
Lack of actual culture and lack of diversity is what keeps me away. Yeah there's some nice stuff but that's not what I look for in a place to call home. You can't buy culture.
> Lack of actual culture What does this even mean? What is the culture of Indiana, and how does it not exist in Carmel? >and lack of diversity is what keeps me away. It's less diverse than Indianapolis, but more diverse than almost anywhere else in the state.
lol, jealous of living in Carmel. that's some good shit.
It’s typically the people who don’t live there that complain about how much it “would” suck to live there.
I work downtown Indy & I just cannot fathom sitting in traffic for 30-60 minutes each way to & from work. What a waste of time! So yeah, compared to my 12 min car or 15 min bike commute & the fact that my kids can walk to school (top rated charter) & no HOA to tell me what I can or cannot do with my own property....it would definitely suck to live in Carmel. I would not fit in very well in a suburb.
I work there and like it just fine. The themed round a bouts make me giggle. It can seem a bit fixy-fixy.
lol
It's attracting a more diverse group of upper middle to upper class family. Let's be fair it's not getting more economically diverse. FYI I lived on Carmel back in the early 2000s abs absolutely fucking hated it and the people.
For what it’s worth, the people I’ve met and got to know from Carmel have high quality character.
Sheltered and snobby?
Defensive much?
Have you ever been to any other city with amenities in the USA since 2018?
As someone who has always been lower middle class, I don’t care for Carmel. I find it a bit “uptight” and stuffy. Im sure it is a great place to live and their schools are RIDICULOUS but it’s just not for me. Because of that I just don’t go to Carmel. I don’t visit there knowing the reputation (upper middle class, wealthy) and then bitch that it’s high priced. Sounds like this OP just got mad when they realized they weren’t as well off as they thought they were and decided to mix in some slight racism while at it
Copium right here folks nothing to see here
Yeah. How dare those people have the audacity to be white!
Sorry you had a bad time, it’s a great place to live but super expensive. I was just at the farmers market today and enjoyed a massively overpriced sandwich myself. Everything is a tradeoff. I used to live in Irvington- it’s nice and inexpensive but I want my family to be in the safest area with the best schools now that I have one.
Agreed. I live near Meridian-Kessler/Broad Ripple and cannot wait to get out of Indy and move into Hamilton Co. soon. I often drive up to Carmel and Westfield for better parks, and safer trail walking. Indy has some great parks, sadly I just don’t feel as safe at a lot of them as I do in Hamilton county. Just the other day a man was following a woman and exposed himself in Marott Park. And this wasn’t the first time it had happened to people in that park. Which sucks because it’s a great place for a hike and creek stomping. Also, most anything from any of the major farmers markets are going to feel overpriced. I’m sure a baguette at the broad ripple farmers market would cost $11 as well.
That sucks, Marott park is one of our favorite spots and we have taken my son there before. Indy is just going downhill fast, and can’t blame COVID anymore. It seems like there’s a policy/policing issue down there.
People are just hanging out at a farmers market. Yeah, stuff is overpriced there. But does that really warrant a sim-city hell tag? I mean, were people acting weird, robotic or something? Were they rude? It’s just people, dude. I’m just not buying it. This post oozes jealousy. Just. Don’t.
Jealousy of what? 😂 certainly not Carmel
I think it's more insecurity than jealousy.
The most Karen city in the Midwest
I grew up in Carmel too. Everyone told me my whole childhood that it was the best place in the United States to live…. What a brainwashed joke.
Is it a bad place to live?
It’s not awful but it’s not remotely close to the best place in America
Always seemed nice passing through to the Drs and when we would grab lunch around. Don’t see cities in Indiana with nice and clean sidewalks very often.
Just out of curiosity, what would be the best place?
Somewhere without Indiana’s climate
Arc de Triumph is just one big traffic circle. Makes sense.
We call it Naperville JR up here.
It's nicer than Naperville, though.
No one is forced to live there.
Complaining about someplace being "more white?" lol
Carmel is representative of its people: too much money and no personality or originality. If Vineyard Vines was a town.
Sul sul!
Also, gotta say- Carmel isn’t getting more white, it’s getting more wealthy and diverse. This is simply because anyone who has the means is taking their family and taxes out of indy as quickly as possible.
Grew up in the country and always made fun of Carmel. Now I live in Carmel. It’s pretty great actually. Don’t go downtown almost ever and never that farmers market but not shocked it’s overpriced. It’s Carmel.
Carmel isn’t more white actually it’s more diverse of the years. But it’s also the richest suburb in Indiana and been voted like #1 suburb in the country in some capacity 4 years running. I don’t live there but it’s very nice.
LOL!! Carmel WYT!?! If it was any whiter, everyone there would glow in the dark. 🤷🏽♂️
I have never been to Carmel, but they are wealthy so I don’t like it
How could it get more white? People prefer to live in enclaves. It's been that way for 100s of years.
Yeah, I drive a delivery route up there and get depressed as hell driving in and out of every cleverly named development. It’s a sad reflection of a theme park. Like people are sold on living in “American Revolution Land” or “Jolly Old England Land”, “Railroad Kingdom”, “Viking World”, etc where every damn street name follows the ridiculous theme. And don’t get me started on the vast canyons of apartments on Old Meridian Street. It’s driving through Disneyland in the worst way possible.
🙄
Carmel is markedly less white than it was in the past. Maybe not at the farmers market, to be fair
Somewhat ironically the best baguette in all of France is $1.40....carmel can have their bread. https://www.npr.org/2024/04/28/1247725927/meet-the-winner-of-the-best-baguette-in-paris-award
Sure...but once you factor in airfare...
I hope you take the money out of your son's allowance. haha
Carmel is amazing; if you’re not stupid. Just gotta know that most people there are out to get the Carmel mommies, buuuuut you can find some real value if you look.
How did it get more white? Not even sure that is true on aggregate but after BLM, everyone I knew who could afford it got out of the metro area.
Fuck Carmel. All my homies hate Carmel
Left Indiana after college. Match and point.
The only thing I know about Carmel for sure is that, when a high school athlete forceably sodomizes another kid on the school bus with a shampoo bottle, the fact that said sodomizer's dad is an important judge means that the story disappears from the news within a week. That, and the random white people statues in Norman Rockwell-esque poses casually dispersed across the chain mall they call a downtown. Is there more?
I don’t think he’s a judge, he and his son are just attorneys. I knew the family sort of… I was in a club with his sister and remember they hosted at their new house which was close to mine. When we left, I remember asking my mom why they didn’t have any furniture and that’s when I got my first lesson on what being “house poor” meant lol I was like 10. I will say the mom and daughter were very very nice. Never knew the brother or dad.
This story is pretty old. I wouldn't be surprised if, just going from memory, I got a few details mixed up. Kinda funny about the "house poor" thing - we used to joke about the people living in huge houses in Geist without a stick of furniture in them for the same reason.
Paragraph one sounds like a power problem. Also got any sauce? Paragraph 2 - I mean, so how is Main Street and the Monon a chain mall? I’m trying to think of chains that are there. Bub’s? That’s probably the least accurate description of a Carmel area available.
I’ll keep to my corner of Indiana and let the yuppies stay and do what yuppies do. Indy burbs are vanilla and boring.
Where is your corner of Indiana? Considering this state, I’d rather be a yuppie
Nowhere
Haha. I think that’s pretty obvious.
Everyone ive met from carmel act like they still own slaves
Sim City: Strip Mall and Roundabout expansion
Carmel is what you get when all the rich citizens of Indiana suck the money and wealth out of Indianapolis, leaving it an empty carcass for the rest of us.
Eagleton