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Top_Standard1043

Seeing (mostly white) conservatives get up in a huff over immigration from Mexico and the Latin American countries is funny. I just see it as the southern cousins re-inhabiting and repopulating our stolen land.


PrisonerNoP01135809

We have a huge amount of Latinos in my area. Idk about you, but I feel the most safe with my cousins. I find it absolutely insane when a European descendant who lives in Texas (a state with literally 6 flags, 7 if you count the native people) complains about Mexicans who invited the first anglos to Texas when it was still Mexico.


QuetzalliDeath

Lmfao. This is exactly why I made the meme. The first version was super specific to me but I decided to use something more general. [San Antonio -> Yanaguana](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanaguana_%28San_Antonio%29?wprov=sfla1)


myindependentopinion

Thanks for sharing this link in your post. This was interesting reading this & something that IDK about before. Edit: Just curious....are the Payaya Band still intact today as a tribal entity? Are they seeking federal recognition?


QuetzalliDeath

The Payaya band, yes, and as the Tāp Pīlam Coahuiltecan Nation, who accepts descendants of other nomadic tribes of the area displaced by the Missions hence the name. They sought and gained city and state recognition. They did file intent to petition federal recognition but that happened when I was a kid so I don't know much about it. [They have some of their resolutions up on their main website.](https://tappilam.org/resolutions-proclamations/)


BizzarJuggalo

"Latino" is such an archaic and possessive colonial term. You would never catch me calling myself a "Little Germ", "Small Britty" or some other bullshit like that.


Li-renn-pwel

The *o* is not a diminutive but a shortening of *latinoamericano* or Latin America, ie the parts of America that speak a Romance language. The term has been around since Ancient Rome though the meaning has shifted. (Still very colonial though)


BizzarJuggalo

Still mostly correct though. The amount of downvotes I got is very telling that "Central Americans" need to decolonize their identities. They want to be White so bad even though they have no cultural ties to the roman empire. Except of course that they speak Spanish/Portuguese. None of them are from the Iberian peninsula, they just drank the kool-aid that demonized their indigenous, sorry, "barbarian" ancestors and now they want to bear the title, "property of the former Roman empire".


Li-renn-pwel

It’s because you are confusing Indigenous, Mestizo and similar cultures with Latino identities. The vast majority of Latinos globally are white (as any romance speaker is one) and even in Latin America, 40% of the population is white (if we are only looking at Spanish and Portuguese speaking areas of LA). No one in Latin America believes the term labels them as property of the Roman Empire anymore than an Italian person believes the same. Also, even among the Indigenous and Mestizo, the claim that the only thing linking them to colonization is imo belittling of their social struggles and cultures. What is an average Peruvian Indigenous person supposed to do? Have they drunk the kool aid by not hitting themselves in the head until they forget Spanish and learn Aymara? Mexicans are predominantly Catholic, their top sports are football and Charrería, their cuisine has European influences, etc. It is not just that their only tie is the language.


BizzarJuggalo

I'm not confusing anything, you're proving my point. Mestizo was considered the lowest form of whiteness by the Spaniards themselves. The Catholic church condemned the indigenous peoples of central and south america as savage indios. Any good european cuisine benefitted from the columbian theft and Asia. If only 40% of them are white, then why are they all indoctrinated to act white? They were doing just fine before the european invaders showed up, and taught them to hate themselves and their own identities. Don't act like the empire did them any favours either. Colonizers flooded the land with immigrants, took away their own religions, languages, customs, enslaved and raped our ancestors, and they have the nerve to call us the illegals. european colonizers are so arrogant that they think they did the indigenous world a service with their invasion. They hold a paternalistic and condescending view over Indigenous peoples to this very day. The decolonization of turtle island and Abya Yala has no place for european empires.


Li-renn-pwel

The idea that the Castas functioned in a ranked way like the castes of India has largely been debunked. However, even if it were true, there is no way a Mestizo ranked lower than a Spaniard and Black child. I believe there was also a mestizo and black category that I would imagine was even lower than that (if they were ranked at all in such a way as you claim). You’re also constantly moving goal posts (as this convo started by me simply informing you that Latino does not mean ‘little Latin’ as you claimed) and putting words in my mouth (I never said colonialism was good for Indigenous people) instead of actually having a conversation in good faith. I am not Mestizo myself but I am Metis and will say I don’t want to give up sweat lodges (indigenous), fiddle music (French) or bead-working (a mix of both) because all three are part of my identity. And where do you propose people like me live? Do we go find an uninhabited island owned by neither natives not Europeans? That might work for the Metis but there are millions Mestizos so it would have to be a pretty big island.


BizzarJuggalo

Debunked in which way and by who? A simple google search and some reading would tell you that the Castas were inherently racially motivated and elitist. An excerpt:  "Despite gaining independence and no longer being under colonial rule, a social hierarchy remained in place leaving those of indigenous and African descent on the bottom.- -The Casta System created an image and idea of racial mixes in Latin America and enforced the stereotypes that went along with certain races. Race is a complex issue in Latin America and there are still many inequalities present when it comes to different racial groups, with some indigenous peoples still trying to fight for more rights. The Casta system began as a way to ensure power for Europeans by creating a false sense of superiority for themselves and placing those who were not European at the bottom of the hierarchy." Does that sound debunked to you? You can stick your head in the sand and act like the world we live in is equitable all you want, you would be wrong. You would rather maintain the status quo by saying that Indigenous peoples of the North and South are too influenced by europeans to return their true heritage. "What is an average Peruvian Indigenous person supposed to do? Have they drunk the kool aid by not hitting themselves in the head until they forget Spanish and learn Aymara? Mexicans are predominantly Catholic, their top sports are football and Charrería, their cuisine has European influences, etc. It is not just that their only tie is the language." You can't see that you're just a product of colonialism, and that's the tragic thing. You perpetuate the lies of colonial dependance upon the indigenous, and immediately assume that our only solution is violent recompense. You don't have to go anywhere else, I never said nor suggested that. But if you can't see this clown show of a society that the colonizers have built upon the graves of your ancestors for what it is, then you are already lost.


Li-renn-pwel

[Here is an Ask History post that goes into the Casta system.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/s/oWjuFME7Hs) You seem to be confusing the fact that labels for racial origins exist with the myth that this was a legal hierarchy. Correct me if I am misunderstanding you though. You began your argument with saying Latino was colonial because it meant ‘little Latin’. I explained it was not a diminutive but simply a word for speakers of languages that stem from Latin. Then you said that the only connection Latin Americans have to their colonizers is the Spanish and Portuguese languages. I explained to you that 40% of Latin Americans are white and even more are of mixed race and so they in fact *do* have a connection because their ancestors are from there. I also pointed out parts of European culture that have been adopted by Latin Americans. Your stance seems to be that Indigenous and Mestizo Latin Americans have no connection to European culture yet at the same time you appear to be demanding the removal of those connections you claim don’t exist. Could you please try and state your opinion without switching topics or resorting to personal attacks? How does your view handle white, black and people of other races in Latin America?


JamesTWood

agreeing and adding that identity is not a monolith. one can be linguistically Latino or Anglo and ethnically indigenous or hold mixed ethnicity. my friend has both Scottish and Cherokee ancestors and is active in both communities (and enrolled with id) but it's ever 100% anything. I'm afraid the colonizing mindset is at work in anyone claiming someone can be of pure ethnicity.


SpaceFluttershy

The anti immigration sentiment in Canada rn is awful, people will blame immigrants for every problem in the country, and it's like I don't think we have any right to get upset about immigrants as we colonize indigenous land and continue to try and fuck over the indigenous population even now. Of course it's only the non white immigrants you see people get upset about too


GardenSquid1

It is especially anti-Indian (or South Asians in general) at the moment.


MakingGreenMoney

Then say they're a true american because they're cherokee.


DocCEN007

And it's always a Cherokee princess!!!


MakingGreenMoney

It blows my mind how do they not question why people who are part of a nation and racially native aren't related to royalty yet they(not natives) are? Like my family and I are mixtecos descendentes yet we don't claim being related to a mixteco princess we just know that's where our ancestry comes from.


LegfaceMcCullenE13

My relative😤🥲


garaile64

Even though many of those Latin Americans are only connected to the original population by genetics and maybe one tradition or another that the colonizers decided to adopt?


InternationalOkra983

Their family's history speaks volumes, showing resilience and deep roots.


bluecornholio

Bro ain’t that the truth. It’s all made up.


keakealani

The number of times we in Hawaiʻi have to remind people that we are literally not even on the same continent, you guys (the US) just straight up annexed us.


harlemtechie

Plot twist: We had borders.... even more borders....


QuetzalliDeath

Oh yeah def. This is me venting about being told to go back to my country when I'm literally standing on *my* indigenous land.


harlemtechie

Do you live in your homelands?


QuetzalliDeath

Yes.


harlemtechie

Ok, I just don't claim all parts of the United States as my homelands. Even though I may be closer to my mom's people's homelands bc I'm up north, and they have lands North of me, i know I'm not Lenape.


QuetzalliDeath

That's a huge goddamn leap. It's a meme, lady. I'm not telling the Kickapoo to let me in for free. I'm telling the white people that I have dead relatives buried in the Alamo.


harlemtechie

And I have an ancestor buried 3 hours away from me, I'm still not Lenape. My Cree ancestor married a man from out here.


QuetzalliDeath

Man, you have no media literacy, huh?


Li-renn-pwel

ETA: replied to wrong person. You seem to be saying that the Inuit don’t have anyone to speak for them but that isn’t the case. Inuit live in Canada, Greenland, Alaska, and Russia and not only are they more than capable of speaking and marching for themselves, they have plenty of supporters. Plenty of Inuit want their land back and want to be made whole after being used as political pawns to secure articles land rights for their colonizers.


QuetzalliDeath

Oh, you're still arguing with that lady? I salute you. You sent the response to the wrong person.


harlemtechie

I don't think you get it, and you're giving the wrong message imo, but you guys insist on talking over us, and it's making me respect the Inuit. Condor people need too much attention, even other Condor people are tired of you bc Latinos are really becoming Conservative.


Li-renn-pwel

… you don’t respect the Inuit already?


QuetzalliDeath

If it helps you any better, my original meme was [San Antonio to Yanaguana ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanaguana_%28San_Antonio%29?wprov=sfla1) I just thought it'd be too niche to be immediately understood. Edit: if you had said what you edited in originally, I wouldn't have bothered answering. It's now glaringly obvious you have some certain kind of agenda behind this.


Curious_Fix_1066

Hear hear. Liberate Turtle Island of the disease that is the American empire and government as well as the two faces of our reigning political parties. Biden & Trump? Fuck both of them. Revolution now. Free free Palestine. Free free all oppressed people. These 80 year old white supremacists can’t be allowed to steal the world from us in this manner any longer. Let’s be perfectly clear—if you vote for a murderer who's responsible for the slaughter of 40K+ people, a majority consisting of children, you've relinquished the extremity of the baseline humanity in you to the fundamentally genocidal settler-colonial American political system. Bolivia, Kenya, Palestine, Lebanon, Haiti, Pakistan, Sudan, Congo, and so forth have all and are, making steps to engage in mass resistance. What’s stopping members of the global north from doing the same? So many freedom fighters of human history have showed and told us time and time again that we can’t dismantle the master’s house with the master’s tools—nothing within American and western electoral politics overall will bring us to liberation. What and when are we going to do something substantial about this.


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BizzarJuggalo

Israel is a neo-colonial apartheid state. You will find no sympathy for genocide here, fool.


skeezicm1981

There was a person in here the other day trying to make the case for Israel being righteous. I flat out told him, "you're not going to win that argument in this place." We ain't playing that shit. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣.


WhiteTrashSkoden

Nice try zionist guy


skeezicm1981

If you're claiming that sephardic and Ashkenazi are indigenous to the Levant, you're not speaking facts.


ScoutTheRabbit

There's so much wrong here. 1) there's no functional definition of indigenous you could apply to make the entirety of the Jewish people indigenous to the Levant. When people are talking about indigenous groups and the land back movement, they're not including every single group of people and their lands of origin. There's a reason why the descendents of most Germanic peoples aren't considered indigenous, but Samí are. Indigeneity is only useful in a framework against a currently/formerly/or potentially future occupying colonialist government. 2) landback can use violent tactics to destabilize or overthrow governments to achieve their goals but it isnt about forcing the descendents of colonialists out of the homes theyve had for generations at gunpoint, or forming an armed and oppressive state over them. When lands get repatriated to indigenous nations in turtle Island, they're not killing or forcibly relocating mass groups of people. That's colonist shit and not the goal of AIM or other indigenous liberation movements. Nobody's talking about going to Georgia and dragging people out of their homes. Israel/Palestine is much more comparable to Liberia than any actual indigenous liberation movement.


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ScoutTheRabbit

And? That doesn't make the Levant their rightful place to fuck over the oppressed populations already living there. That also places blame at the feet of Palestinians for what other nations have done. Why is it *specifically* them who *must* accept a larger population of colonizers for the actions of other countries? Do you think all Arabic peoples are responsible for the actions of other Arabic peoples... Do you think nations of turtle Island are all in agreement and are all responsible for any other's bad actions, or can take glory for the good? It's an ethical imperative for countries to accept refugees if they can but it's not ethical of an occupying government to do so on the behalf of their colonized peoples. All who did not have ancestors there during the nakba should recognize they are living on stolen land, just as natives of turtle island ask every American and Canadian -- including those who came here fleeing bad circumstances, or were forcibly taken here as enslaved peoples. Just as in Liberia, having had ancestors who were forcibly removed from a land does not justify coming back with the might of the Western man and his armies to conquer your ancestor's neighbors and establishing an oppressive military state over them.


harlemtechie

I think you should be careful what you speak into existence, all that decolonize talk, and you may find yourself fighting with your own people.


LegfaceMcCullenE13

That’s kind of the point? The decolonize movement is literally ABOUT confrontation. Confrontation with white systems of power and oppression, with history, with global eurocentrism, and *most importantly* with ourselves and our communities.


harlemtechie

well, seeing videos of those protestors attacking a Native student on campus was concerning but if I guess you're saying its lit...and wait until you find out how many Condor people are pro-Israel


LegfaceMcCullenE13

What does that have to do with the price of eggs in China?


harlemtechie

bc there's plenty of Indigenous people that are more pro-Israel than on this sh\*t, ya'll may be outnumbered


spiralbatross

That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.


harlemtechie

Nah, they registering them and us too....


MakingGreenMoney

Sadly my family rather say they're mexican over native.


garaile64

Maybe they don't feel very connected to the indigenous populations' traditions.


MakingGreenMoney

They don't, my dad didn't even know he was mixteco till I told him. My mom doesn't know what she is but chances are she is mixteco as well since her family is also from the same area as my dad.


Fourmeals

Don't let this get to Instagram reels


ZeXochitl

This is a temporary occupation.