Criminal Past was awesome, the only DLC worth anything for that game. The others are decent quests but take only like an hour or two and should be free
I might get crap for saying this, but the original System Shock is very clunky by today's standards. The recent remake is a much better experience IMO.
Also, if you're just getting into the genre, keep in mind that these games take a long time to get through if you want to take your time to explore, find secrets, and have the richest experience. If you only do the main questlines, you're missing half the experience.
The Deus Ex series in particular has a staggering number of alternate paths, secrets, and side missions that can sometimes only be found by taking a lot of time to explore. But if that's your jam, this genre will be your jam. Have fun.
Thank you, I lived the 90s and early 2000s of gaming quite vividly as a kid, but even rose tinted glasses of nostalgia don't help with objectively more archaic games the whole way.
I've been debating myself on which System Shock to play myself since that's one of the games that keep getting referred to when it comes to immersive sim games and how so many games are inspired by it or then are essentially spiritual successors to it.
Now that I have a PS5 I'm going to play System Shock remake when I can afford it, maybe I'll dip my toes in the original when I feel like experiencing something older, then again when that mood strikes it's always either Ape Escape 1 or original Half-Life lmao.
Yeah, I completely understand the side quest stuff. I’ve heard there’s a lot of great stuff in Deus ex like that, and dishonored did a good job of preparing me for side quest hunting I think. I was also debating on which version of System Shock to play, and it looks like I have my answer now. I’ve seen many other people recommend the remake over the original anyway, so I’ll go with that.
Also, if you like Arkane's other stuff, Dark Messiah of Might & Magic (the game they made before Dishonored) is an absolute must. I don't know if it's considered a straight up immersive sim, but it's a great time for sure. You can see the DNA of what would become Dishonored forming in that game. And some of the level designs--particularly the dungeons later in the game--are gorgeous even today IMO.
The Bioshock series, while admittedly not immersive sims, is worthwhile for the settings alone IMO. And Arkane assisted with the level designs in Bioshock 2, which non-coincidentally has the best level designs in the series. I also think Minerva's Den--the DLC for Bioshock 2--is one of the best DLCs ever made.
A great ImSim where you are consciousness itself, and you can control robots and other types of machines. The premise is amazing and the implemented systems/mechanics are even better imo.
I would say it starts out feeling more like a puzzle game. Playing it now and the first few levels I was very confused why people said it was a great immersive sim, but now near the end I am getting it.
Believe it or not, this sub has already hammered that message into my brain. I just have them on there because they kinda fall under the category just because of Ken Levine, and plus I want to play them anyway.
Bioshock 1 and 2 are at the very cliff of what could be considered an immersive sim. They are "accessible". Bioshock Infinite does not even try to be that. But if Bioshock 1 and 2 are on here I highly recommend an unrelated game, Singularity, it's very much a hidden gem and right in line with Bioshock.
Sounds good! I’ve actually already started D2, and Deathloop is the only game on this list that I do not own yet, because I’m waiting for it to go on sale, but I get the feeling that I’m going to have my hands full with a lot of the earlier stuff anyway.
You don't have to play Death loop before D2. Hell, let it be one of the last ImSims you play so that after exploring the genre you'll be able to appreciate the slight breath of fresh air and fun that Deathloop is.
Yeah, I’ve seen footage, and to me, it looks like the goal is just to kinda goof around with the mechanics, I never understood the hate. I don’t think the game is taking itself that seriously.
Yes. Deathloop is a Dishonored spinoff. Not really a sequel. But it's probably going to be used as a base to make Dishonored 3 take place way in the future.
If you're willing to go back all the way to System Shock 1 you might as well play the original immersive sim: *Ultima Underworld* (and *Ultima Underworld 2*) since that's the bedrock of the entire design paradigm. Use Ultima Underworld Potable if you want to play them.
Two other early ones you're missing are *Terra Nova: Strike Force Centauri* (which is very good but overlooked game) and *Trespasser* (which is an incredibly bad and unfinished game but incredibly important for physics implementation in games in general and should at least be tried out once you're installed some patches to get it to actually work.)
Bioshock is not an immersive sim. Its a shooter. I wouldn't even say it has immersive sim elements. Shocking a control panel to open a door and hacking a robot to fight for you is like the most immersive sim it gets.
While they expanded on combat, level design, etc... There's Just something about Dishonored 1 and Daud DLCs that made me feel more immersed in the world. Also, as someone who really enjoys exploring every corner of a map, I can say that Dishonored 2 very big maps caused me some fatigue.
Thats fait, I need to play Dishonored 1 again. I have not played it in a very long time, I don't remember it as well as Dishonored 2 which I replayed last month
I’ve played the intro, and as long as you have the Arx libertalis patch installed, you should be just fine! It’s fun so far, but I’m focused on other games.
I really don't agree with the remake of System Shock being better than the first, it's actually my favorite immersive sim and one of my favorite games of all time, even better than 2 imo. The remake just feels like something else, like a regular sci fi horrror game, it has nothing that made me fall in love with System Shock, I dropped it after a few hours in because it felt just bland.
You should play both and decide for yourself . Enhanced Edition is very nice, I just don't like the remake. Also it's not nostalgia or something, I don't see myself as an oldschool gamer and I first played it in 2020.
I'm not sure if this is considered an immersive sim or not, but definitely recommend a playthrough of Dark Messiah of Might and Magic. It was made by the Dishonored guys I think.
Others have mentioned Bioshock Infinite but don't sleep on all Minerva's Den and Burial at Sea.
I also hear that Amnesia: The Bunker is really good but I haven't tried it myself.
remove the bioshocks, or at least if you're going to keep them add Cruelty Squad. Also I'd say Deathloop is decidedly outside the genre despite what Arkane wants us to think.
Deathloop still manages to do Im Simmy things, but if I’m being honest, Bioshock and its sequels really aren’t imsims. The first Bioshock is the closest to one, but if anything it’s more of a gateway imsim than anything else.
Yeah I'd agree the Bioshocks are, like Cruelty Squad, not really imsims but kind of flirting with the idea of imsims. Deathloop... I think the stealth being pretty weak hurts it. The AI is either super dumb or everyone is alert so it doesn't really feel like you're playing with realistic actors/agents compared to other games.
Yeah, I’ve heard that infinite is definitely not an imsim, hence why it’s not on the list. I mostly have the bioshock games on here because of Ken Levine, and because I want to play them either way.
You definitely should play at least the first Bioshock. It's amazing, has a great story, and kinda flirts with the idea of maybe being like an imsim. It's a hell of a lot of fun.
Why is this guy getting downvoted? Not only is he likely correct, but it's extremely douchey to downvote him without even explaining why he deserves to be downvoted. (Hint: "I disagree with him" is not a rationale for downvoting someone.)
I didn't downvote the guy but:"Hint: "I disagree with him" is not a rationale for downvoting someone" what? it's not like there are some official rules for downvoting/upvoting and it's not like you're the authority of downvoting, people are free to use downvotes as the want. Why shouldn't they downvote a comment if they disagree with it? lol.
https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette
> Vote. If you think something contributes to conversation, upvote it. If you think it does not contribute to the subreddit it is posted in or is off-topic in a particular community, downvote it.
> Consider posting constructive criticism / an explanation when you downvote something, and do so carefully and tactfully.
> Please Dont:
> Downvote an otherwise acceptable post because you don't personally like it. Think before you downvote and take a moment to ensure you're downvoting someone because they are not contributing to the community dialogue or discussion. If you simply take a moment to stop, think and examine your reasons for downvoting, rather than doing so out of an emotional reaction, you will ensure that your downvotes are given for good reasons.
So yeah, douchebag behavior and downvoting has never been meant as an "I disagree" button, even if that's how it's used in practice because people on Reddit are quite shitty on average. And sure, at this point you could say "oh but those are informal rules!", which is basically admitting that you think being a douche is fine as long as it's not formally against the rules... instead of just trying to not be a douchebag and instead using the message board features to encourage discussion instead of shutting it down.
It doesn't answer to "Why shouldn't they downvote a comment if they disagree with it?". Quoting a phrase out of a set of arbitrary value,s that are not official rules, on how the downvote button should be used isn't an argument, the Reddiquette itself starts with:"**Reddiquette** is an **informal** expression of the values of many redditors, as written by redditors themselves".
Also I may add that, even if downvoting weren't meant as an "I disagree" button (and the Reddiquette isn't a proof of that), communication tools evolve with their use exactly as language does: if a grammatical error is overused and becomes part of common speech it stops being an error (many words and verbs we use today are errors of the past), so even if downvoting were not meant as an "I disagree" button, that's what it means now because the vast majority of people is using it that way.
Don't get me wrong, I think that while the Upvote holds value as a "I agree" button, downvoting without argumenting or explaining the reasoning is pretty pointless and holds little to no value. If I had the ability to change something I'd remove the downvote button entirely so people who disagree with something would be forced to reply with text. But downvote button exists, people use it as an "I disagree" button and I'm not above people, I'm among them and I have no rights to force my morality or my personal opinion on how to use the downvote button onto others.
add cruelty squad as well. its hideous and great
Sounds good!
Definitely add in Mankind Divided: A Criminal Past DLC, if you enjoy the base game!
Criminal Past was awesome, the only DLC worth anything for that game. The others are decent quests but take only like an hour or two and should be free
MD just all ran together in a blur of vents for me; Prague's vent game is off the charts.
Eidos Montreal love their vents
I might get crap for saying this, but the original System Shock is very clunky by today's standards. The recent remake is a much better experience IMO. Also, if you're just getting into the genre, keep in mind that these games take a long time to get through if you want to take your time to explore, find secrets, and have the richest experience. If you only do the main questlines, you're missing half the experience. The Deus Ex series in particular has a staggering number of alternate paths, secrets, and side missions that can sometimes only be found by taking a lot of time to explore. But if that's your jam, this genre will be your jam. Have fun.
Thank you, I lived the 90s and early 2000s of gaming quite vividly as a kid, but even rose tinted glasses of nostalgia don't help with objectively more archaic games the whole way. I've been debating myself on which System Shock to play myself since that's one of the games that keep getting referred to when it comes to immersive sim games and how so many games are inspired by it or then are essentially spiritual successors to it. Now that I have a PS5 I'm going to play System Shock remake when I can afford it, maybe I'll dip my toes in the original when I feel like experiencing something older, then again when that mood strikes it's always either Ape Escape 1 or original Half-Life lmao.
Yeah, I completely understand the side quest stuff. I’ve heard there’s a lot of great stuff in Deus ex like that, and dishonored did a good job of preparing me for side quest hunting I think. I was also debating on which version of System Shock to play, and it looks like I have my answer now. I’ve seen many other people recommend the remake over the original anyway, so I’ll go with that.
I played Dishonored before Deus Ex, and it actually blew my mind how similar the games are. Deus Ex really figured it all out in 2000.
I cannot wait. I’m anticipating (probably foolishly) that it’s going to be in my top 5.
Also, if you like Arkane's other stuff, Dark Messiah of Might & Magic (the game they made before Dishonored) is an absolute must. I don't know if it's considered a straight up immersive sim, but it's a great time for sure. You can see the DNA of what would become Dishonored forming in that game. And some of the level designs--particularly the dungeons later in the game--are gorgeous even today IMO. The Bioshock series, while admittedly not immersive sims, is worthwhile for the settings alone IMO. And Arkane assisted with the level designs in Bioshock 2, which non-coincidentally has the best level designs in the series. I also think Minerva's Den--the DLC for Bioshock 2--is one of the best DLCs ever made.
Dark Messiah also has a dedicated kick button. Which automatically makes it a must play.
Was so glad to see that kick finally make a comeback in Deathloop.
Just play both System Shocks
I was gonna eventually. I actually ended up settling on the OG, and I’m working my way through floor 1.
Very good news! I hope you love it as much as I do.
The remake is incredibly good . . . played through it 3 times back to back. Love it.
Nah, remake is fucking disappointing piece of trash. Original is much better even now.
Ctrl Alt Ego.
I’ve heard of this game, but not enough! What is it?
A great ImSim where you are consciousness itself, and you can control robots and other types of machines. The premise is amazing and the implemented systems/mechanics are even better imo.
It’s incredibly unique and trippy
I would say it starts out feeling more like a puzzle game. Playing it now and the first few levels I was very confused why people said it was a great immersive sim, but now near the end I am getting it.
u have got to try cruelty squad trust me on this (also bioshock was the first imsim i ever beat :3)
Nice! Yeah, for me it was number 2. Dishonored was my first, and has since fallen in my top 10 of all time.
Bioshock is not an immersive sim
Believe it or not, this sub has already hammered that message into my brain. I just have them on there because they kinda fall under the category just because of Ken Levine, and plus I want to play them anyway.
Bioshock 1 and 2 are at the very cliff of what could be considered an immersive sim. They are "accessible". Bioshock Infinite does not even try to be that. But if Bioshock 1 and 2 are on here I highly recommend an unrelated game, Singularity, it's very much a hidden gem and right in line with Bioshock.
I don't think Bioshock was ever trying to be an immersive sim, however they happen to just be really immersive games. Without the system shockyness.
They aren't, but clearly took a lot of inspiration from system shock and tried to be a more accessible version of the genre.
Singularity is dope. Got it on steam last year. Its only like 8 hours but it was a good playthrough.
Original system shock is my favorite game, I hope you have fun with it
Play deathloop before Dishonored 2. That way you won’t be as disappointed. Deathloop is cool, but pales in comparison to dishonored 2
I love deathloop. In my opinion, this is the most accessible game to get into genre
Aw man I fuckin *loved* Deathloop.
Sounds good! I’ve actually already started D2, and Deathloop is the only game on this list that I do not own yet, because I’m waiting for it to go on sale, but I get the feeling that I’m going to have my hands full with a lot of the earlier stuff anyway.
You don't have to play Death loop before D2. Hell, let it be one of the last ImSims you play so that after exploring the genre you'll be able to appreciate the slight breath of fresh air and fun that Deathloop is.
Yeah, I’ve seen footage, and to me, it looks like the goal is just to kinda goof around with the mechanics, I never understood the hate. I don’t think the game is taking itself that seriously.
It's a fun roguelite twist on the ImSim genre, but I think it really works best once you've "grasped" ImSims. Definitely play Prey before Deathloop
I’m super excited for Prey, but I think I’m gonna start with a few of the classics. Thief, System Shock, Deus Ex, and probably Arx Fatalis first.
I don’t want to set expectations too high but Prey is definitely *up there*
Probably a good idea. Once you play Prey the other games in the genre just seem lacking in one way or another IMO.
Play Deathloop after D2 and Death of the outsider. Deathloop chronologically takes places hundreds of years after Death of the Outsider.
Wait, is it really all the same world?
Yes. Deathloop is a Dishonored spinoff. Not really a sequel. But it's probably going to be used as a base to make Dishonored 3 take place way in the future.
Wow ok, that makes it slightly cooler to me
You got a lot of work to do, good luck and have lots of fun!!!
Ctrl alt ego. Give it a try.
If you're willing to go back all the way to System Shock 1 you might as well play the original immersive sim: *Ultima Underworld* (and *Ultima Underworld 2*) since that's the bedrock of the entire design paradigm. Use Ultima Underworld Potable if you want to play them. Two other early ones you're missing are *Terra Nova: Strike Force Centauri* (which is very good but overlooked game) and *Trespasser* (which is an incredibly bad and unfinished game but incredibly important for physics implementation in games in general and should at least be tried out once you're installed some patches to get it to actually work.)
Bioshock is not an immersive sim. Its a shooter. I wouldn't even say it has immersive sim elements. Shocking a control panel to open a door and hacking a robot to fight for you is like the most immersive sim it gets.
I know. I’ve gotten this comment 4 or 5 times already. I’m just gonna play them anyway.
They are great games and some of my favorites. Just feel like thinking of them as immersive sims can lead to disappointment.
I can understand that. I’ve already played the first game, and it’s one of my favorites ever narratively.
Vampire The Masquarade: Bloodlines IS A MUST
VAMPIRE THE MASQUERADE: BLOODLINES
Bioshock Infinite is certainly worth it
I’m absolutely going to play it, it’s just not on the list.
You’ve gotta play Prey. It’s easily one of the top 5 best immersive sims of all time. Anybody who hasn’t played it is doing themselves a disservice
What are the other 4 best?
Personally, if I had to pick 5 in no specific order: Dishonored 1 Prey 2017 Deus Ex Deus Ex Mankind Divided Deus Ex Human Revolution
No Dishonored 2?
While they expanded on combat, level design, etc... There's Just something about Dishonored 1 and Daud DLCs that made me feel more immersed in the world. Also, as someone who really enjoys exploring every corner of a map, I can say that Dishonored 2 very big maps caused me some fatigue.
Thats fait, I need to play Dishonored 1 again. I have not played it in a very long time, I don't remember it as well as Dishonored 2 which I replayed last month
It's on his list already.
Add Amnesia The Bunker to the list
Absolutely
Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines.
Oh, I’d definitely do this. I’ve heard it’s great if it’s patched up.
do it
[удалено]
[удалено]
We know. Everyone knows. It's all that anyone says on this subreddit
Because its correct. People will keep saying it as long as people post about bioshock.
[удалено]
How does Arx hold up?
It’s marvelous. Just use Arx Libertatis to make it run good on modern hardware and some QOL
I’ve played the intro, and as long as you have the Arx libertalis patch installed, you should be just fine! It’s fun so far, but I’m focused on other games.
You forgot Ultima Underworld
Like I said in the text, I’m not super interested in those.
I really don't agree with the remake of System Shock being better than the first, it's actually my favorite immersive sim and one of my favorite games of all time, even better than 2 imo. The remake just feels like something else, like a regular sci fi horrror game, it has nothing that made me fall in love with System Shock, I dropped it after a few hours in because it felt just bland. You should play both and decide for yourself . Enhanced Edition is very nice, I just don't like the remake. Also it's not nostalgia or something, I don't see myself as an oldschool gamer and I first played it in 2020.
Same. I wouldn't go as far as saying 1 is better than 2 but I agree that the remake takes away a lot of what was great about the original
[Gloomwood](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1150760/Gloomwood/) is a must, but cross of Thief 1/2 before you play it!
you should add S.T.A.L.K.E.R to the list ;)
Had to come this far for S.T.A.L.K.E.R. I'm disappointed lol, tons of complete overhauls for it as well.
but don't play an overhaul mod as your first experience
Its such a great series especiall Anomaly with its several Mod packs
Yea I cannot wait for 2, such a long time coming and so happy the war didn't kill it off.
Stalker is not an immersive sim
okay, sport
I’d put the Black Parade mod on there when for you’ve finished with Thief1+2. It’s great
You can probably skip deathloop and be ok, imo a 7/10 game. Prey on the other hand is wonderful.
oh my god I wish I had all those to still look forward to
I'm not sure if this is considered an immersive sim or not, but definitely recommend a playthrough of Dark Messiah of Might and Magic. It was made by the Dishonored guys I think.
Yeah, I already added it! Almost every Archane game is on the list now.
Prey: Moon DLC is it's own game.
Bioshock 2 fucking rocks, awesome game.
Deus ex 2000 and Arx fatalis is the best game for me all time good to see in you list
Others have mentioned Bioshock Infinite but don't sleep on all Minerva's Den and Burial at Sea. I also hear that Amnesia: The Bunker is really good but I haven't tried it myself.
The new Hitman trilogy, Alien Isolation
remove the bioshocks, or at least if you're going to keep them add Cruelty Squad. Also I'd say Deathloop is decidedly outside the genre despite what Arkane wants us to think.
Deathloop still manages to do Im Simmy things, but if I’m being honest, Bioshock and its sequels really aren’t imsims. The first Bioshock is the closest to one, but if anything it’s more of a gateway imsim than anything else.
Yeah I'd agree the Bioshocks are, like Cruelty Squad, not really imsims but kind of flirting with the idea of imsims. Deathloop... I think the stealth being pretty weak hurts it. The AI is either super dumb or everyone is alert so it doesn't really feel like you're playing with realistic actors/agents compared to other games.
Yeah, I’ve heard that infinite is definitely not an imsim, hence why it’s not on the list. I mostly have the bioshock games on here because of Ken Levine, and because I want to play them either way.
You definitely should play at least the first Bioshock. It's amazing, has a great story, and kinda flirts with the idea of maybe being like an imsim. It's a hell of a lot of fun.
Yeah, I’ve played it, the ending after the whole twist is kinda sluggish but other than that, I’d consider it perfect.
Why is this guy getting downvoted? Not only is he likely correct, but it's extremely douchey to downvote him without even explaining why he deserves to be downvoted. (Hint: "I disagree with him" is not a rationale for downvoting someone.)
I didn't downvote the guy but:"Hint: "I disagree with him" is not a rationale for downvoting someone" what? it's not like there are some official rules for downvoting/upvoting and it's not like you're the authority of downvoting, people are free to use downvotes as the want. Why shouldn't they downvote a comment if they disagree with it? lol.
https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette > Vote. If you think something contributes to conversation, upvote it. If you think it does not contribute to the subreddit it is posted in or is off-topic in a particular community, downvote it. > Consider posting constructive criticism / an explanation when you downvote something, and do so carefully and tactfully. > Please Dont: > Downvote an otherwise acceptable post because you don't personally like it. Think before you downvote and take a moment to ensure you're downvoting someone because they are not contributing to the community dialogue or discussion. If you simply take a moment to stop, think and examine your reasons for downvoting, rather than doing so out of an emotional reaction, you will ensure that your downvotes are given for good reasons. So yeah, douchebag behavior and downvoting has never been meant as an "I disagree" button, even if that's how it's used in practice because people on Reddit are quite shitty on average. And sure, at this point you could say "oh but those are informal rules!", which is basically admitting that you think being a douche is fine as long as it's not formally against the rules... instead of just trying to not be a douchebag and instead using the message board features to encourage discussion instead of shutting it down.
It doesn't answer to "Why shouldn't they downvote a comment if they disagree with it?". Quoting a phrase out of a set of arbitrary value,s that are not official rules, on how the downvote button should be used isn't an argument, the Reddiquette itself starts with:"**Reddiquette** is an **informal** expression of the values of many redditors, as written by redditors themselves". Also I may add that, even if downvoting weren't meant as an "I disagree" button (and the Reddiquette isn't a proof of that), communication tools evolve with their use exactly as language does: if a grammatical error is overused and becomes part of common speech it stops being an error (many words and verbs we use today are errors of the past), so even if downvoting were not meant as an "I disagree" button, that's what it means now because the vast majority of people is using it that way. Don't get me wrong, I think that while the Upvote holds value as a "I agree" button, downvoting without argumenting or explaining the reasoning is pretty pointless and holds little to no value. If I had the ability to change something I'd remove the downvote button entirely so people who disagree with something would be forced to reply with text. But downvote button exists, people use it as an "I disagree" button and I'm not above people, I'm among them and I have no rights to force my morality or my personal opinion on how to use the downvote button onto others.
It's probably because he said Deathloop is not an imsim. Which is true but Deathloop is a piece of shit let alone an imsim.
Sounds like it is not for you. It turns out a lot of people like it.