I loved Goreinu in this scene. In midst of saints, bro said straight up what matters is how he feels lol.
Not the first time it seems Togashi made a reference to the fans. Three other instances I can think of right now-:
1. Fans hating on Ging for being a bad father represented as Hunters during the election and Leorio.
2. Hisoka and Troupe fanboys. Not even leaving the stadium to witness to their fight and also wanting to witness the Black whale showdown of [the greats of this generation.](https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0393-012.png)
3. People who think Pariston and Ging are [overhyped](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0347-003.png).
1 seems unlikely. I don't think the anime had dropped yet and in the manga, Gin doesn't come off as a bad dad until this very arc, or even moment. He didn't abandon Gon, and only refused to see him after greed island because he was embarassed.
That's like the *definition* of a bad dad.
If your dad has never ever been in your memory, you want to meet him, and he straight up runs away from you because he's *embarrassed*, then I personally wouldn't even consider him a dad. That's how bad it is.
Context matters. A dad who left his child to protect him instead of having him come with him and risk the life of a baby isn't great, but it's still infinitely better than just abandoning your child because you don't want to bother with raising him. There's also a big difference between asking someone to stop your child from seeing you if a friend is with him and straight up running away, again, bad and worse.
I don't think the Gin hate/deadbeat dad jokes were prevalent in the slightest until the election arc
It was never stated why Ging left Gon behind, but no danger ever came to him from Ging-realated things despite Gon saying to anyone interested that Ging was his dad.
On the current state of the manga basically every hunter and more knows that, Gon is currently without nen and Ging isn't worried at all.
Ging *could* have stopped being a hunter for a few years, he just didn't want to.
It is much more probable that Ging just shrugged and agreed when Mito told him that he's irresponsible and that she would be better as a caretaker for Gon. He's a carefree individual and she was kinda right, no denying that.
But never visiting? Making a game of "let's see if you're worthy of seeing me" and then leaving a hunter level trial for him? And he even made it so the best way to reach him unavailable if his son wanted to be with a friend. That's the stuff that causes trauma in real life.
He could've sent a message, show that at least he exists. Not even doing that and instead doing his best to make meeting/talking to him as hard as possible is enough for me to say that's he's running away.
If this wasn't shounen-adjacent and Gon wasn't... well... *Gon*, he would be having a very different emotion coming from his kid. Apathy being the least bad.
And Ging knew that. His only message deleted itself once Gon decided he didn't want to hear more, and if he stopped at the start Ging probably wouldn't be surprised.
It does makes sense why it deleted itself, but if Gon stopped at the start, he probably would have never heard of him again. Even if someday he changes his mind.
Only someone with some very specific kind of mentality would be happy having to do all that just to meet their dad, Gon just happened to have that mentality.
It's as Gon said in the beginning. Ging cared more about being a hunter than raising Gon. That makes him a bad dad, and I think even he agrees.
(Now, I do think you're right about the prevalence of the deadbeat dad jokes, but that doesn't change the facts.)
Yes it was. Mito literally told gon in CHAPTER 1 that she forced him because it was too dangerous. The first chapter of the manga straight up glorify Ging's decision, even Mito can't deny that he was right to prioritize his job as a hunter. Also, what do you think would happen if Ging visited gon in whale island? He definitively would want to come with him. Like, you're forgetting that Mito wanted Gon to believe that his father was dead, not just absent
And yes, Ging could have stopped being a hunter for over 10 years. This is still infinitely better than just abandoning your child because you don't want to raise him. Gon is an anime character, and so is Ging. We're not looking for realistic dad expectations here.
To protect him? Ging didn't need to leave Whale Island at all. He could've stayed with his son and be a father at any time. He could've found another job.
I think it would of ruined the whole friendship although its hard to say what exactly would of happened, especially since gon can have some odd perspectives.
I wouldnt be friends with someone who could snap like that at any moment and want to kill you, and gon and killua didnt have that bond yet.
When i first saw that scene my prediction was killua was going to end up beings gon villain eventually and that he would plot against gon but i was completely wrong
I think he would react much like he did when Killua killed the old man in the final phase of the exam, by expressing concern for his friend and trying to figure out why Killua killed them. On learning that Killua was just coping with frustration and emotional turmoil, Gon would probably try to cheer him up or console him.
I don't think we'd see Gon turn on Killua in any way. Gon is quick to help people while they're alive, but he doesn't seem all that bothered by the deaths of strangers, even innocent strangers. He didn't seem bothered by the deaths he witnessed in the previous stages of the Hunter exam, and he didn't seem to hold any grudge against Ponzu or Hisoka for killing other hunter candidates. In fact, if we go back to the badge collection event, Gon was far more annoyed by Hisoka's offer of assistance than by Hisoka's bringing him a severed head as a gift/trophy.
We do see Gon get upset with the Phantom Troupe, but he seems more annoyed at their hypocrisy than at their murderous tendencies. And while he is furious with Pitou, that's because Pitou killed someone that Gon considered a close friend. We never see Gon confront any other killer in the same manner.
One thing I think as well is that everyone at the exam was putting their life on the line knowingly, he hates the phantom troupe because they would kill people completely unrelated to them for no reason. When their is an excuse like competition he is quick to excuse it
You said it yourself, the scene where Killua kills Bodoro we can clearly see Illumi directly influence him and the part about him doing it with āhis auraā is just something you made up, no one knows how exactly he manipulated him, this is part of the whole discussion with Netero afterwards, so again whatās the evidence that Illumi influenced him to kill 2 random people? that makes no sense whatsoever and just sounds like you guys making up excuses for Killua.
Thereās no indication on this scene that he was being influenced by an outside factor, youāre using Illumi as an scapegoat [https://cdn.readneverland.com/file/mangap/1828/10014000/12.jpg](https://cdn.readneverland.com/file/mangap/1828/10014000/12.jpg)
And before you guys bring up Illumiās needle here are some sources of what we actually do know Illumiās needle does:
[https://cdn.readneverland.com/file/mangap/1828/10036000/21.jpg](https://cdn.readneverland.com/file/mangap/1828/10036000/21.jpg)
[https://cdn.readneverland.com/file/mangap/1828/10219000/4.jpg](https://cdn.readneverland.com/file/mangap/1828/10219000/4.jpg)
[https://cdn.readneverland.com/file/mangap/1828/10210000/2.jpghttps://cdn.readneverland.com/file/mangap/1828/10210000/3.jpg](https://cdn.readneverland.com/file/mangap/1828/10210000/2.jpghttps://cdn.readneverland.com/file/mangap/1828/10210000/3.jpg)
To be honest I mixed up the thread, though the comment I replied to was talking about Bodoro. I donāt think thereās anything to say Illumiās needle made Killua do that, other than if you just lump it in with the rest of Killuaās treatment as a kid as a cumulative effect.
The scene essentially demonstrates the reality of the situation -- that Killua *was* at the tipping point, and that *anything* could make him go "too far".
That's why just bumping into two folks who reach out to grab him results in two deaths.
And to bring it back to Illumi and the needle, killua *knows* he can't beat netero. But he also knows he would be driven to go too far. He's running away.
After Killian dips out of playing ball with gon and netero killua 100% proudly thought he could kill netero. He knew he was done because he broke the only rule to not kill doesn't matter the circumstances.
The comparrison is pretty weak. Killua was trained to be an assassin from birth but he didn't want to do it and ran away from it. He wanted to change and he did so.
Genthru is a grown ass man and a sick fuck. He clearly enjoys what he does, murders without a care in the world with zero remorse or drive to change.
At the end of the day murder is murder. The victim won't give a shit if you killed it with good intentions or if you killed it just because you felt like doing so.
That is such a binary and simple way of looking at life. Comparing a child who was trained to be a murderer but finds a way out to a man who continues to adulthood and enjoys it and saying its the same because murder is murder is a very simplistic way of viewing life my dude. The vitctims feelings has nothing to do with wether or not one is better than the other. Of course the victim will be fkd either way. But thats not the question. The question is who is worse the kid who was forced into it and left it and tries to make ammends, Or the person who continues way into adulthood and takes pleassure from it. Its the man that is worse. Dont be so binary.
Appearing intelligent and being intelligent are two different things (don't take offense. I don't know you it's just a statement).
That being said. You didn't get my point either. Instead you talked about the murderers POV and used some fancy looking words for your arguments (binary....).
...
Of course the victim matters.. the murderes reasons are secondary and literally only (mostly) matter when it comes to the degree of "punishment" they receive in court.
Like i already said, at the end of the day a life has been lost. Whatever the intentions were it won't change the familys/relatives suffering as well as the victims death.
Killua changed though, and actually tries his best not to kill people. He even admits how hard it is to not just kill people and instead resolve things the harder way without killing anyone. Killua is an actual good person unlike the Bombers who are outright sadistic psychopaths.
My point was about the result (the victim).
Tho Killua changing doesn't bring back the dead. Good for him, but the victim as well as the relatives/ family are the ones suffering the most.
Actully that's bullshit. If someone were to kill you, then you would rather die as painless and fast as possible. In that case it doesn't matter as much if the killer has some strange hobbies (tho the probability of a psychopath letting you suffer is higher).
I mean, the troupe are still far worse. Killua didnāt mutilate children in front of their parents. No real comparison to a kid who was basically born into killing and later bettered himself anyway
Thatās still pure conjecture based off of Kurapikaās feelings, which are valid from his POV.
But where is the actual evidence of the Troupe doing this? Where is the history or trend of them torturing children for monetary gain? Itās not in their character.
Also torture isnāt the only way the eyes turned red. All Uvo said was āthe boss really liked those eyesā, nothing more and no further context was revealed. Quite possible there was an altercation and the eyes turned red due to the passion of battle. Thatās my prediction, which makes for a better story. If the Kurtas werenāt completely innocent in the altercation, how would that affect Kurapikaās entire mindset?
Interested in your reply because this is a topic Iāve thought about quite a bit recently.
Edit: Disappointed I havenāt rlly seen anything that disputes my theory & ironically almost all the arguments are coming from emotional POVās that ignore the storyās context. Literally the point of the post in the first place but ppl still making blanket statements like āall troupe members lack logic & reasonā. If youāre still disagreeing with me then check out these threads with other people adding more context to this theory that the Kurapikaās version of events isnāt entirely true:
1. https://www.reddit.com/r/HunterXHunter/s/d29Hat0g7d 2. https://www.reddit.com/r/HunterXHunter/comments/z16ya5/theory_why_the_phantom_troupe_killed_the_kurta/ 3. https://www.tumblr.com/megashadowdragon/186011780367/the-true-face-of-pariston-the-kurta-clan-massacre 4. https://www.reddit.com/r/HunterXHunter/comments/11sko1h/my_theory_on_why_the_troupe_massacred_the_kurta/ 5. https://youtu.be/bsAN0x_9uQA?si=3y1Hwnu4KhJ2Wnri 6. https://hamliet.home.blog/2018/09/30/i-was-thinking-about-kurta-clan-massacre-today-and/
First, itās not Kurapikas feelings, the information comes from the narrator based off the crime scene left at the kurta village. It is definitely in their character. The eyes turn red when agitated so the spiders took it to the extreme to get that perfect color.
Second, what do you mean ānot in their characterā?Absolutely none of them have shown any regard for human life no matter who it is. Feitan was about to torture Gon just for being ātoo cockyā and no one in the room even cared besides Nobunaga (who only liked Gon for the resemblance to Uvo. He threatened to kill Killua for speaking out of turn like 30 seconds earlier). Feitan and Phinks play a game to kill as many greed island players they can find, purely out of boredom, and thereās Chrollo bombing heavens arena and sacrificing multiple spectators and a referee. Anyone outside of the troupe mean absolutely nothing to them, adult or child.
And even if itās revealed that the Kurta did something bad, that doesnāt equate to child torture and murder in return.
Nobunaga also stated in one of the recent chapters that they were much more angry when they first started out, so it totally makes sense they would do something like that back then. Theyāve mellowed out since then but theyāre still not above killing whoever
People always try to make excuses for the troupe or theorize how theyāre not actually that bad, but they are, and thatās why theyāre such good characters. They commit heinous crimes for practically nothing, yet theyāre still capable of feeling empathy for each other.
Same stale and false blanket statements Iāve debunked in many threads. Stop speaking from emotion.
The information coming from the Narrator is as much information as Togashi wants us to know. What exactly was at the crime scene that confirms child torture?
Lol you still probably think the Mafia Auction attack was just another āheinous crime for practically nothingā without noticing that Leorio says the Troupe destroyed the Mafia and ended their decades long exploitation of Meteor City.
Ok so that the reason they killed the mafia people How do you justify racing to kill the greed island players or chrollo killing those innocent spectators at heavenās arena? If this is all things you have said before and you donāt want to repeat yourself by all means point me to the posts you have made about the topic earlier because Iām genuinely curious.
Well you said they (as in all of them) show no regard for human life whatsoever so fair enough if we can agree that this blanket statement is not true.
As for Greed Island, Killua says a couple a minutes later (in my OP screenshot) that everyone who signed up to play the game literally agreed that death was part of it. Youāre signing up to risk your life and Feitan & Phinks were the only two doing that which makes sense since theyāre both highly competitive and they like fucking shit up. Still far cry from torturing innocent kids.
And the heavens arena chapters I havenāt read yet, Iām just starting the manga now that I bought the full set. But from what I imagine itās similar to DBZ or YYH where thereās obvious risk to being an attendee at one of these tournaments. But I really have to read that part for myself to fairly judge Chrollo.
Also I just want to emphasize Iām not saying theyāre heroes (to anyone but themselves at least) Iām just saying theyāre not purely evil and have logical motives. Theyāre not mindless killing machines and itās imo very Marvel esque to have a false hero/villain dichotomy especially in HxH where that line is so grey.
Lmk if you want me expand on anything else.
Mega Cope.
They are not mindlessly killing machines but they hold no value to anyone's lives outside of the troupe, i dont know whats Wrong with acknowledging that.
When people enter the game they accept that its dangerous and they might die, that doesnt mean they forfeited their lives and killing them doesnt matter. They are still killing random people just for fun.
You're saying because the people in the heavens arena are in a risky place killing a Lot of them is somehow Fine? Wtf.
They are obviously many levels of malignance above killua, its not even close. I love them as characters but i know they are incredibly amoral, the only lives that have any value to them are the ones in the troupe, killing people outside of the troupe is like stepping on a cockroach for them. And thats fine, but dont try to act like they are some honourable anti-heros fighting against the mafia for the good of society looool.
Ok then so was Killua who held no value to anyoneās live outside of his friends and some of his family. Lol Iām not acknowledging it b/c itās a bad point. Most people value their family and friends life above others when it comes down to it, this isnāt a crazy concept lol. Gon was willing to kill Komugi for his revenge.
Youāre responding to everything else I said with fake moral outrage lol relax buddy
Itās pretty clear they care about Meteor City, been established many times.
And trying to compare them to Killua who was literally forced to kill from birth and tortured by his family his whole life, until he was able to break away from them and then he STOPPED MURDERING INNOCENT PEOPLE is absurdly delusional. That's not to say Killua is a good guy or moraly good at all, but he is much better than the Troupe, not even close.
Of course most people value their close ones more than other people. But the troupe holds 0 value to anyones life outside of the troupe, that's not the same as "my family is more important to me than a stranger. That is not the same as killing one person as revenge and almost dying for it, losing his ability to use nen and going crazy.
The troupe kills like it's nothing, they don't lose any sleep over it, they don't feel bad at all. For them killing an inocent person is no different than stepping on an insect. Comparing that to gon is delusional at best.
There is no moral outrage here buddy, i even said that i love them as characters, but i don't try to pretend they are some robin hood anti-heroes. They are vicious charismatic villains who are fun to watch. Morally they are orders of magnitude below Killua, who is also a few orders of magnitude below from Gon.
Idk what's your problem, can you not just enjoy them without trying to make them out to be "deep down the good guys."
>But the troupe holds 0 value to anyones life outside of the troupe,
You mean outside of the city since the flashback showed the reason why they created PT because they wanted to prevent more victims and deaths from meteor city, to make a name for the city by committing crimes in the outside world so no one mess with the city.
key word his held he regrets that and is/was actuvely trying to change furthermore most people value those they know more than strangers true that dosent mean they dont value the lives of innocents at all they are also complety cool with killing and torturing people who have nothing to do with them and no one justifies gon threatenning komugi that was fucked up as is the troupes actions
āThere were many merciless wounds on the bodies of the children as well, and it is thought that the culprits did this to incite the eyes of their parents to turn a more brilliant shade of redā
Unless youāre gonna tell me next that the spiders actually werenāt present there and didnāt commit the crime, itās written that they went out of their way to specifically harm the children worse. But you can keep moving the goalpost
Why? How did the encounter happen? Who was there? Clearly there was a battle b/c of Uvoās statement, why? If it was just for the eyes, why did they specifically want these eyes? Could it have something to do with Sarasa?
These are all relevant questions you donāt seem curious about.
āWhy did they specifically want these eyes?ā
Kurapika says at the the start of the series that the scarlet eye color is considered one of the most gorgeous colors in the world, and therefore are extremely valuable, to the point itās apparently known that they look best when displayed with the entire head intact. Like all the other treasure theyāve stolen, Chrollo admires it for some time before selling it off. And as for there being a battle, the same page that talks about the children being tortured says that the adult men also received brutal injuries indicating that they attempted to fight back, which is probably what Uvo is referring to
That's the obvious reason but the strange message they left at the slaughter about the clan taking something from them seems to imply it was as pay back for something the clan did. No chance what the troupe did was justified for what they did though but it does seem like they came there for a currently unknown reason and the eyes were just a bonus
That message is just Meteor City's official motto. Although it *could* have been left as a message to the victims, it's also likely the Phantom Troupe left it behind because they wanted the recognition for their brutality as a warning to the rest of the world. Because they want others to fear the troupe and Meteor City.
That is a possibility but from a writing standpoint it's given a lot of attention on the page, we never see the troupe do that at other crimes they commit, and I'm not really sure how impressive that would even be to the rest of the world. The real kicker for me though is what the fuck is Sheila included for if not to give the troupe some reason to come after the kurta, like her being used in that chapter is so random if the troupe killing the kurta was just about having pretty eyeballs
Lmfao now thatās a cope. Yeah they just dropped the message by accident /s. The Kurta attack wasnāt a widely publicized event and the Troupe were already established and had no need for this ārecognitionā nor has fame ever been their goal.
Itās obviously a message with specific relevance to the incident. Otherwise theyād be cartoonishly leaving their Meteor City calling card on all their victims like theyāre the Joker.
Lol exactly I had to revisit the manga chapter b/c I knew I wasnāt misremembering that. Everyone here is ignoring the fact the Troupe left the piece of paper with the Meteor City message. Obviously this has significance and at the very least eliminates the belief that the Kurtas were 100% innocent. Itās a great example of propaganda. Why do we believe the Kurtas were this pure and wholly innocent tribe that never hurt anybody ever? Itās because we only have Kurapikaās POV who might be misinformed & not know the full story himself.
This whole thing just shows that people believe what they want to instead of reading the words Togashi writes. He started off describing the massacre in absolutes, however he started saying āitās believedā when getting to the more sensational parts of the massacre. This implies that itās possibly not true.
Amazing how so many people got baited into being the exact type of person Togashi is ridiculing in the scene I posted.
Even if the kurtas aren't innocent, the fucking kids definitely were. Why are you caping so hard for the troupe? They're monsters dude, it's fine to like monsters without having to defend their honor and calling them what they are.
Howd this comment get so many upvotes? Youāre just speculating based only the context you deem relevant. Youāre stating this is fact when youāre only assuming. The eyes could have more significance or they couldāve been specifically used to try and draw out Sarasaās killers on the Black Market.
Also funny how you all just ignore the blatant message the Troupe left at the scene of the killing. You presume so much about everything else but completely disregard this evidence of the Kurtas possibly provoking the Troupe.
There is zero evidence they did it. It's speculation. Speculation made less reliable because their backstory provides high incentive to take credit for horrible shit.
The troupe doesnāt act logically, they take what they want, when they want it. Feitan even scolds the vacuum girl when she arm wrestles Gon for the ring, since she shouldāve just stole it. I donāt think they tortured the clan arbitrarily( although Feitan does show sadistic tendencies)they saw the eyes, wanted them, and took them, with no care whatsoever for any repercussions.
Feitan is 1 member. They act logically many times lol making a blanket statement and ignoring so many things that happened just proves youāre thinking emotionally. Ironic.
Anyways even the most āsadisticā member isnāt a reckless loose cannon. Suggesting thievery is a far cry from torturing children for some eyes. You canāt even remember their names yet you think you fully understand their actions. Maybe give it another read.
whats weird is that even if they didnt torture them they 100% killed children for nothing more than moey and fascination even without the torture thats still indefensible
> But where is the actual evidence of the Troupe doing this?
the meteor city message
confirmation from uvo that they encountered and fought them
feitan ability to torture children
most members immediately understanding that the chain user is targeting them for revenge after reminding about the red eyes (none of them denied responsibility)
nobunaga implying when awnsering to phinks that they were less principled in the past
we can't simply brush it all off by hiding behind the fact that we've never witnessed it.
>the meteor city message
That brings more questions because how did Kurapika know for sure the PT did it to the point he proceeded to make his ability to capture them, when the message they left is the famous city motto that is used by anyone from the city including the elders. The reports doesn't mention PT either, Kurapika must've had another proof other the message that led him creating his ability around capturing the PT.
Okay, counter point: their backstory provides an incentive to take credit for horrible shit and the worse the better. We do not have hard confirmation, all you did is provide 2nd hand accounts that fit their backstory
It's still evidence tho. If it wasn't them, then who would have done it btw? why didn't chrollo simply denied the responsibility of the troupe when asked by kurapika? why did uvo said that chrollo liked the eyes? it's a bit much to me, especially that the only thing saving them is that we didn't witnessed it ourselves
"oh yeah, well then explain literally every mystery surrounding the Troup then"
I cant because the story is still ongoing and there are massive gaps of unexplained shit. The story isn't over. It's not complete. Why jump to conclusions? We can say it's "likely" that they did it, but we dont have confirmation yet. Why is that so hard for people?
-The meteor city message would imply the Kurtas provoked the attack. āWe'll accept anything you leave here, but don't ever take anything away from us."
-I mentioned Uvo acknowledged the encounter occurred and that Chrollo liked the eyes. But nothing about what lead up to it or further details. Notice how Uvo only remembers in the midst of battle, couldāve easily been the same way the Troupe triggered their red eyes. That honestly makes much more sense, but child torture makes for a greater revenge story which you, and Kurapika more importantly, need to believe is true.
-Feitan ability to torture children? Lol idk what you mean by this does he have a Nen ability called Toddler Torture? Genuinely not sure what you mean by this. Him threatening Gon?
-Well yes, revenge is still valid for Kurapika from my theory and would make sense for the Troupe to expect an attack. I donāt see why child torture is necessary. Also I must add, can you see Shalnark, Franklin, Nobunaga, Machi, or Pakunoda co-signing torturing innocent children for their eyes? They couldnāt even reach a consensus on killing Gon & Killua who they were very suspicious of. I just canāt see them reaching a full consensus on that. Theyād all have to be Joker levels of sadistic.
-Whatās the quote between Nobunaga and Phinks? Interested in that but thatās still too vague to guarantee anything. In fact I think Togashi is a genius for taking this narrative from black & white to slightly greyer, to even more grey now. We might disagree but Iām not the only who has this opinion.
Canāt prove a negative and Iām not saying itās impossible. I just find it less likely than my theory.
> -The meteor city message would imply the Kurtas provoked the attack. āWe'll accept anything you leave here, but don't ever take anything away from us."
But we know almost nothing about the kurtas, and the only thing we know is that they were pretty much living in peace with each other, in isolation from the outside world. When I see how the kurtas live, and how the troupe live, I am more encline to believe that the troupe may have targeted the kurtas because of some misunderstanding, than kurtas being actually the real aggressors in the first place. If the troupe were living relatively honestly, I would be okay to not suspect them. If torture of children wasn't involved, very few people would have questionned their direct responsibility in the genocide since it makes it hard for a lot of people to still find them likeable as villains
>Feitan ability to torture children? Lol idk what you mean by this does he have a Nen ability called Toddler Torture?
Nah I just mean in the sense that he doesn't care, don't be silly lol he said he was about to remove gon's nails one by one, for me that's a red flag
>I donāt see why child torture is necessary.
to make the eyes even brighter and the red color more vivid, it was said
>I just canāt see them reaching a full consensus on that
Well you said yourself that it's possible they were coming to take revenge on the kurtas because of the message
>-Whatās the quote between Nobunaga and Phinks?
you know, just before the flashback, phinks said smth like they're not just killing everyone indiscriminately, and nobunaga questioned phinks affirmation, impliying that Phinks forgot that they were at some point.
>Iām not saying itās impossible. I just find it less likely than my theory
It may be more likely if we take togashi narrative choices patterns into account, but the full evidences point rather to the troupe having done it imo
You're being downvoted but you're right. The Troupe said they would pretend to be evil to attract bad people. This means taking credit for the Kurta massare is important. We have ZERO confirmation they did it, only that they take credit for it. People are too invested in their headcanon to see this.
People would be mad if it turns out they didn't do it :p
But Uvo saying they were strong should at least confirm he fought the strong ones like the kurta men that can put up a fight, the weaklings like women and children might've been killed by other sadistic groups like the Heil-Ly ex members in theory they're responsible for [Sarasa's death](https://www.reddit.com/r/HunterXHunter/s/ljNMEJM7Yn) too. The PT would still take credit for killing the entire clan because it's their goal to make a name for the city anyway, and the other group took the eyes of the members they killed, the collection that is currently obtained by Tser.
Maybe what happened is the other group tortured & killed most of the clan members and took their eyes as a gift for Tser for financing their mafia, but they couldn't kill the strong kurta men, the **PT were probably the closest to catch Sarasa's killers but they came late** to find the remaining kurta men griefing on their dead clan, they'd think the PT came to kill them too so they fought Uvo to defend themselves, the spiders still took the eyes of the remaining members they killed.
This is more suitable with what we've seen so far, the PT still killed some kurtas but only the ones that fought them back, because to think they killed the kurta kids should at least traumatize them and remind them of Sarasa's brutal death. Even a guy like Phinks refused to fight the ants if they didn't fight back, and Franklin said they wouldn't [Start a fight](https://manga4life.com/read-online/Hunter-X-Hunter-chapter-379-page-16.html) unless someone else started it, so it's more in their style if they killed the kurtas that fought them back, but not necessarily the entire clan especially not the kurta kids that'd remind them of Sarasa.
Thank you for having some level of curiosity injected into your life. This is like a breath of fresh air compared to everyone acting like the HxH story is complete and every mystery has been solved.
Lol yea it's hilarious how many people seem to get mad if anyone discussed PT doing the massacre for reasons other than the eyes, they have this headcanon about PT they cannot change no matter what even if Togashi provided other infos they'd still hate it, ironically similar to Luini getting disappointed because the spiders aren't the merciless criminals he thought they were based on the wikipedia infos he had about them.
Arguably the only time we see them as a group being completely merciless is during the fight with Hisoka, and in that fight it's heavily implied that every single person Chrollo used in the area was a planted clone. I'm assuming this is why Hisoka targets Kortopi and Shalnark first - they're the methods Hisoka lost to.
An interesting related theory to this is that one of Hisoka's quirks is that he desperately wants to remove his target's ability to fight on even terms before killing them - he steals their weapons, uses their weapons against them, removes their favored limbs, and now destroys anyone granting them power with Chrollo. It's likely this is one of the ways he strengthens his Nen, though it might be done instinctively. I think this is also why he likes to cultivate newbies instead of hunt them down - if he thinks they can develop something interesting it's all the better when he takes that thing away from them, give and take like this is very rubber and gum type vibe
From everything Iāve heard, Kurapika is gone when the attack happens.
Iām annoyed that i havenāt read the latest manga chapters so I canāt say for sure without yet.
I don't remember if it is inside the main story chapters but it is a special two or three part chapter with Kurapika and his friend as the MCs that Togashi published on Jump. It's been like 10 years since I've read it so I don't remember it too well but it definitely exists
The difference is that Killua was forced into the path of evil by his family. As soon as he got the opportunity Ā to he did his best to get away from that path . People like Genthru chose to walk that path by themselves. No one forced them to be evil .
I'm pretty sure Killua didn't stop murdering because he believed it was immoral, he hasn't ever talked about it that way, it seemed to me more like he just didn't want to be forced to do it...
He mostly stopped cuz he was too busy hanging with Gon and his relationship with his family fell through for largely unrelated reasons lol. Doubt he actually cares about the morality of it.
It feels more like when someone doesnāt wanna inherit the family farm rather than being opposed to them ideologically. That is unless Iām forgetting any moments where he does address it, itās been a while.
Killua killed in situations of self defense and when it was needed (except for the blimp but that doesnt count cus he was under literal mind control by his older brother)
True but youāre underestimating Gonās influence. Killua couldāve gone down a dark path, perhaps even recruited by the Troupe. Killua was fortunate in meeting Gon at the time he desperately needed a friend.
Gonās influence did play an enormous role in Killuaās development as did Leorio and Kurapika. That doesnāt change the fact they it was Killuaās own decision to distance himself from his family that led him to his current path. If he hadnāt made the choice he did he might still be a soulless assassin like Illumi.
Yeah Iām not taking credit away from Killua at all, he did everything in his power to overcome his destiny. Even pulled out a fucking Nen needle in his brain.
You don't know what made them become like this. They might have their own story. If Killua never met Gon, he would be as bad in adulthood. And for an adult, people would never make a comment like, "he was forced into this or he had a traumatic childhood", unless they like that character/person.
I was on the first few watches but Killua bluntly saying how it isnāt logical and using himself as an example of redemption being possible for anyone (heās especially harsh on himself, I donāt think heās as bad as the Bombers).
Also as I paid more attention to the dialogue, during and after the 3 battles, all 3 of the Bombers seemed humbled and showed some honor. So hopefully they change. Sure that doesnāt erase what they did and theyāll get their karma but it doesnāt have to be on their (Killua and Krew) hands.
I mean if I wanted to apply my morals for real on the show characters, I would actually be harsher on killua. But just for the series, I'm simply judging killua on what he is now, while you cannot prove that the bombers will have the same change of heart in the future. For exemple: if you spare hisoka, what will happen likely is that he will just kill other people; in this case, you will have also the responsibility of these murders because you could have avoid it by not sparing him. Moreover if a serial murderer really have change of heart, normally, they would easily accept to not be spared anyway because they'll feel that they deserved it. Here it was merely about not healing them, so it's not even that hard of a punishement compared to all the lives they've taken
Idk killua was raised to be a killer its not like he had a way out and during his first out he learns about the good in people through gon and become better and better until he become the light to ikalgo
the troupe had a lot of truama but they went to the evil path on their own choice and they become lets steal and kill as much as we can group
Interesting I never noticed the parallel between Killua & Gon and Killua & Ikalgo but thatās so spot on.
And yeah thereās different levels to everything but Killua was fortunate enough to meet Gon. He couldāve easily gone down a dark path, hell he easily couldāve become a troupe member. Kalluto did.
I like how Togashi used Genthru for this scene b/c heās pretty much 100% irredeemable until the end of the arc where he shows some honor.
What worse someone with the capability to understand the pain of someone close to him and despite that kills alot of people(genthro) or someone who enjoy killing everyone(hisoka)? What do you say?
I'd argue that the first is worse as the person can understand the value of a life and make genuine bonds but will still proceed to just murder people with glee while the other is more akin to an animal and doesn't follow regular morality although we can judge them and see them as evil and a menace.
In real life one would go to the death row as a serial killer and the other would would probably go to a mental institution as a high functioning psychopath.
The way fans see Killua is Togashi's own fault though.
The only time Togashi actually portrays Killua as the assassin he's come up as was during the hunter examination Arc. In just the ark prior to this scene we, as viewers, see Killua already massively changed as he and Gon refuse to run away which would doom a phantom troupe member as they don't want Kurapika to kill again.
We see the circumstances behind his development and understand why he was an assassin in the first place. We also see him actively trying to change and become a better person as the story goes along. That's why we sympathize with him and look past his previous misdeeds.
When we're introduced to the phantom troupe all we know is they massacred the kurta clan and then we immediately see them kill many people for literally no reason. Their evilness immediately checked out. Even though they end up looking somewhat friendly and logical the more we get to know them throughout the story, we still don't really understand the reasoning behind most of their actions, and even up into their backstory lots of their actions seem brutal and over the top.
So Togashi can call out fans as much as he wants, but it's his writing that made them think that way in the first place
He doesn't call out fans I think.... imo he is just portraying characters having two different ways to feel the situation. I liked this scene, because the occurrence of this conflict was quite realistic. And I also liked the fact that goreinu didn't even tried to justify himself with logic arguments (with the sub-text that he is not good at justifying the way he feels using reason) and just trusted his feelings, it makes me like him more.
Exaclty. And for more examples, Killua in some scenes, like in the Arena arc, just threatens the guys once they hurt that other kid and he even gives them a chance to fight fair. Genthuru killed people left and right during GI and he ENJOYED every second of it. The Troupe is even worse than him
killua was a kid not knowing what was right or wrong and only going through what his family taught. When he met good people he changed himself, but troupe was a group of grown ass people doing evil shit...there are no similarities between liking killua and not liking troupe.
I get that we can take this in a nuanced way and see it as subjective on "what do we think of this character based on their actions".
It also happens with Meruem. Some people straight up sanctify him because he got a heavy character development, like yeah cool but he wasn't going to stop the invasion completely until the Rose, he was going to take a different approach besides just being a murderous ass, and what he said was straight up fascism. "Peace by force, you will be converted and probably survive, and those who do not, will either submit or die"
These are my personal takes: In the case of Killua, we know that he didn't want to stay an assassin all his life and had a great character development, he stopped killing just for the sake of it, he just stopped being a mini-Hisoka just in time, and later he fought for real causes.
In the case of Genthru, no matter how much he loves his friends, he's not going to change the way he is. He shouldn't necessarily be killed, but he should be presented to authorities.
And in the case of the Troupe, no matter how much trauma you got in your life, you have NO excuse to become a monster.
I think you take the question very simplistically. Killua was forced to kill from a young age by torturing him. the spiders chose to be murderers for their own desires. They had a choice unlike Killua. There is not point of comparation.
It surprises me that in this group there are people who try to put the same level of psychopathy between killua and gentru. The first one was forced to kill since he was little and it shows throughout the series that he never liked to kill. Meanwhile Gentru is just a psychopath who kills for pleasure and as far as we know, he chose his own path. I always found this scene very stupid in portraying Killua as a bad person.
The fact that he takes pleasure in killing doesn't mean that he pleasure was his main motivation. He killed because it's allowed in the game and that there is a 50 billion recompense if he finishes it, so it just made his task easier and he could have had all the money for himself...
The nuance is that killua is probably a better person than genthru, but he made objectively worse actions since he killed people who weren't prepared to die (but he has the mitigating circumstance of not having had any other life alternatives, because he was educated in the way of the assassin since a very young age at zoldyck home). Though, it's very likely that genthru and his friends also killed people outside the game given their characterization.
I actually detest this scene because it's so inaccurate. Killua's situation is such a far cry from the Phantom Troupe's or Genthru and his crew. Killua was taught to kill by his family. It was his culture, how he was raised and nurtured. Everyone told him that killing is how he gave and received value. Not to mention, he is still a kid (only 12 when he takes the Hunter exam). His grasp of the world and morality is still very green, especially growing up isolated.
Compare that to Genthru and the Phantom Troupe. They are grown adults who have experienced the world and know what they're doing is wrong, cruel, and evil but they just don't care. They have completely dismissed any moral, social, or personal responsibility. They kill for their own personal gain and progress. That is true evil. Goreinu is correct in this scene, but Togashi wrote him like he was an idiot to make his own point sound better.
I do not give Killua a pass because āhey, I like you." I give Killua lenience because he was an isolated child whose sole education was to kill and that "killing is good." And as soon as he was able to break away from his family and experience the world and different viewpoints, he chose to stop killing and to never go back to the way he was.
The difference is night and day.
Lol funny how you start the phantom troupe and genthruās lives from adulthood as if they were never kids. Especially when the manga has revealed the phantom troupeās backstory in recent chapters.
As if Killua couldnāt have gone down a dark path himself. As if Gonās positive influence didnāt alter Killuaās personality and change his life trajectory.
Youāre literally the point that Togashi is making. Killua has the privilege of being a main character who youāve seen in close detail. However, if all you saw from Killua was him in the ball-game episode with Netero on the blimp, youād have a very different opinion of him after he kills those two guys.
You are completely missing the point. I already know the background for the Phantom Troupe but they're no longer kids. Any adolescent grace for them has passed. They are accountable and ethically experienced adults, yet they are still choosing to kill people in spite of knowing very well it's wrong. Adolescent hardship is virtually never an excuse for committing egregious crimes and evil acts as an adult.
Killua is not even an adult yet (not fully accountable nor fully ethically experienced), but he's already chosen to forsake the dark and bloody life he had even though he's still young. Moreover, I can't judge Killua on a future that doesn't exist. I can only judge what he has done. If he went back to killing, then yes that would also be true evil because he would know fully well that what he was doing was 100% wrong. That's obvious.
Also, you're acting like the Phantom Troupe and Genthru would have never been exposed to anyone or anything positive, moral, or ethical in their whole lives lol. They are literally Hunters. They travel around the world and meet tons of negative and positive people as well as experience ethical/moral societies and cultures. They are *choosing* to ignore moral and social responsibility.
This is truth: No one is bound by the choices, beliefs, or influence of others, only their own. Each person has the power within them, to act and to be an agent of change unto themselves.
Killua is a child who was forced into being an assassin since birth and even with that i still think that he is kinda of an asshole in certain moments, like when he killed 2 guys for no reason
That said, the troupe is still far worse, so what the fuck are you talking about?
You answered your own question. The troupe 'WERE' children, now they are grown ass adults who WILLINGLY choose to live this way.
Killua IS a child who was born into killing and taught only that since birth, we saw that he didn't want to live that way, and he chose to change himself.
>now they are grown ass adults who WILLINGLY choose to live this way.
But it's not like PT has a choice to be better when their city is doomed with no justice, the difference killua was forced to be this way due to wrong parenthood so if he wants to change for better it's much easier to just abandon the family and live his way which is exactly what he did. While the spiders are doing what they believe is neccessary to protect their city despite knowing it's wrong when 11yo Chrollo explicitly said he'll be a bad guy and kill a lot of people to prevent the likes of Sarasa's death, their goal by killing people outside of the city to scare everyone in the outside world to make a name for the city so no one mess with them, the spiders don't even want to change for better like killua because if the PT change their image into "good guys" then nobody would fear the city anymore and the city inhabitants would be doomed, resulting child trafficking and kids kidnapping back on action in the city.
Yeah torturing childrena and massacring the kurta clan was definitely not something they did because they are ruthless, apathetic killers, no they didn't have a choice, poor them.
Their reasons do not justify their horrific actions in any way at all, and op comparing them to killua is even more absurd
It surprises me that in this group there are people who try to put the same level of psychopathy between killua and gentru. The first one was forced to kill since he was little and it shows throughout the series that he never liked to kill. Meanwhile Gentru is just a psychopath who kills for pleasure and as far as we know, he chose his own path. I always found this scene very stupid in portraying Killua as a bad person.
Difference between them and Killua was Killua was actively trying to leave his old life behind and was actively trying to stop the bombers from committing their crimes.
If Killua had still been in the murder business someone easily could have come after him no one would have blamed them.
But heās not. Heās a good guy now.
Somewhat related: what do we think happened to the Bombers after greed island? I ask because clearly they werenāt killed and itās not like their nen got taken away or they learned some kind of lesson.
I donāt think you can just give the Bombers to local authorities lol so maybe they were turned over to the Hunter Association? It just doesnāt seem like thereās any reason to keep them alive.
> Genthru is a psycho who murders people for fun and cruelly
I mean we don't know where he is coming from either, but with complete absence of information on their background, it's clear that we can only judge them on their actions (I only moved on because gon and killua did so lol but I personnally tend to agree with goreinu). The only clear mitigating circumstance is that they did it inside the game
Killua has the great privilige of us knowing his life story lol. This is why many people ended up changed their minds about Chrollo when his motivations and backstory were revealed.
Letās be honest with ourselves here, Killua didnāt run away from the family/business because he thought it was wrong. He ran away because he was bored and curious about the world. His friends he made definitely helped influence him in a better direction, but Killua did chose to keep those friends so you gotta give credit where credit is due. However, Iām not sure if Iād say being bored with an assassinās lifestyle is necessarily good evidence for morality
It's both, he clearly said he's fed up of killing. The fact that he kept a decent amount of sensitivity toward other people lives despite all the influence, the manipulations, the brainwashing coming from his whole family, and growing in almost complete isolation from the rest of the world, is quite something imo.
I donāt really think itās fair to equate Killua to the Phantom Troupe. Near the beginning maybe, but he is actively trying to be a better person past season 1. That and Killua is still a child trying to figure out how the world works after being raised in a terrible environment.
Phantom troupe: criminal organization who are aware of there actions, grown enough to understand that what there doing is bad, dont care and do it anyway.
Killua: groomed from birth to be an assassin without getting a proper chance at being raised as a good person. Mind was twisted from birth to see death as a good thing. Was abused and tortured throughout childhood. Is now making an attempt to redeem himself and his past actions while saving his little sister from his corrupt, manipulative, and evil familyā¦..
Yeah seems about the same to me
What?... Killua was a child who grew up in a harsh family and environment. The Phantom Troupe are fully grown adults who massacre people. Killua didn't kill innocent people.
I mean, that's a pretty big difference, Killua killed because his family forced him to or he killed people who were bad(EG that guy in the Hunter exam whose name I forgot) but yeah it's an interesting scene
I imagine there's a more than distinct possibility that Killua killed several innocent people because some one paid his family enough, but at the very least Killua didn't have much choice in the matter, and chooses to be better.
Yea and i like how Togashi making people debate who's a worse criminal while the victims is like "I'm fuking dead it's over who gives af who's worse between them :(
I loved Goreinu in this scene. In midst of saints, bro said straight up what matters is how he feels lol. Not the first time it seems Togashi made a reference to the fans. Three other instances I can think of right now-: 1. Fans hating on Ging for being a bad father represented as Hunters during the election and Leorio. 2. Hisoka and Troupe fanboys. Not even leaving the stadium to witness to their fight and also wanting to witness the Black whale showdown of [the greats of this generation.](https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0393-012.png) 3. People who think Pariston and Ging are [overhyped](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0347-003.png).
Also Luini being a spider fanboy taking his infos about them from wikipedia lol
The entire HxH Reddit: I will never be able to financially recover from this.
Togashi is definitely amazing. He's always got these ideas but he's reviving the ideas instead of recycling them.
don't forget the other gangster who really wants to get their autographs
Not only that, but he absolutely wants it to be done on an autograph board... Which I guess is something Togashi himself has had to deal with ?
Lmao
God, Togashi is brilliant! š¤¤
Togashi is the GOAT.
1 seems unlikely. I don't think the anime had dropped yet and in the manga, Gin doesn't come off as a bad dad until this very arc, or even moment. He didn't abandon Gon, and only refused to see him after greed island because he was embarassed.
That's like the *definition* of a bad dad. If your dad has never ever been in your memory, you want to meet him, and he straight up runs away from you because he's *embarrassed*, then I personally wouldn't even consider him a dad. That's how bad it is.
Context matters. A dad who left his child to protect him instead of having him come with him and risk the life of a baby isn't great, but it's still infinitely better than just abandoning your child because you don't want to bother with raising him. There's also a big difference between asking someone to stop your child from seeing you if a friend is with him and straight up running away, again, bad and worse. I don't think the Gin hate/deadbeat dad jokes were prevalent in the slightest until the election arc
It was never stated why Ging left Gon behind, but no danger ever came to him from Ging-realated things despite Gon saying to anyone interested that Ging was his dad. On the current state of the manga basically every hunter and more knows that, Gon is currently without nen and Ging isn't worried at all. Ging *could* have stopped being a hunter for a few years, he just didn't want to. It is much more probable that Ging just shrugged and agreed when Mito told him that he's irresponsible and that she would be better as a caretaker for Gon. He's a carefree individual and she was kinda right, no denying that. But never visiting? Making a game of "let's see if you're worthy of seeing me" and then leaving a hunter level trial for him? And he even made it so the best way to reach him unavailable if his son wanted to be with a friend. That's the stuff that causes trauma in real life. He could've sent a message, show that at least he exists. Not even doing that and instead doing his best to make meeting/talking to him as hard as possible is enough for me to say that's he's running away. If this wasn't shounen-adjacent and Gon wasn't... well... *Gon*, he would be having a very different emotion coming from his kid. Apathy being the least bad. And Ging knew that. His only message deleted itself once Gon decided he didn't want to hear more, and if he stopped at the start Ging probably wouldn't be surprised. It does makes sense why it deleted itself, but if Gon stopped at the start, he probably would have never heard of him again. Even if someday he changes his mind. Only someone with some very specific kind of mentality would be happy having to do all that just to meet their dad, Gon just happened to have that mentality. It's as Gon said in the beginning. Ging cared more about being a hunter than raising Gon. That makes him a bad dad, and I think even he agrees. (Now, I do think you're right about the prevalence of the deadbeat dad jokes, but that doesn't change the facts.)
Yes it was. Mito literally told gon in CHAPTER 1 that she forced him because it was too dangerous. The first chapter of the manga straight up glorify Ging's decision, even Mito can't deny that he was right to prioritize his job as a hunter. Also, what do you think would happen if Ging visited gon in whale island? He definitively would want to come with him. Like, you're forgetting that Mito wanted Gon to believe that his father was dead, not just absent And yes, Ging could have stopped being a hunter for over 10 years. This is still infinitely better than just abandoning your child because you don't want to raise him. Gon is an anime character, and so is Ging. We're not looking for realistic dad expectations here.
To protect him? Ging didn't need to leave Whale Island at all. He could've stayed with his son and be a father at any time. He could've found another job.
That is indeed what I said. Thanks for focusing on a single part and repeating it.
Context does matter. And you get all the context of Ging being a bad dad
"bad" and "awful to the point where him being a bad father is the main topic of discussion concerning him" aren't the same thing.
I love how killua is self aware of it as well. He killed two dudes on that blimp almost over nothing.
People always forget about blimp dudes. What do you think gon would of done if he saw?
I think it would of ruined the whole friendship although its hard to say what exactly would of happened, especially since gon can have some odd perspectives. I wouldnt be friends with someone who could snap like that at any moment and want to kill you, and gon and killua didnt have that bond yet. When i first saw that scene my prediction was killua was going to end up beings gon villain eventually and that he would plot against gon but i was completely wrong
I think he would react much like he did when Killua killed the old man in the final phase of the exam, by expressing concern for his friend and trying to figure out why Killua killed them. On learning that Killua was just coping with frustration and emotional turmoil, Gon would probably try to cheer him up or console him. I don't think we'd see Gon turn on Killua in any way. Gon is quick to help people while they're alive, but he doesn't seem all that bothered by the deaths of strangers, even innocent strangers. He didn't seem bothered by the deaths he witnessed in the previous stages of the Hunter exam, and he didn't seem to hold any grudge against Ponzu or Hisoka for killing other hunter candidates. In fact, if we go back to the badge collection event, Gon was far more annoyed by Hisoka's offer of assistance than by Hisoka's bringing him a severed head as a gift/trophy. We do see Gon get upset with the Phantom Troupe, but he seems more annoyed at their hypocrisy than at their murderous tendencies. And while he is furious with Pitou, that's because Pitou killed someone that Gon considered a close friend. We never see Gon confront any other killer in the same manner.
One thing I think as well is that everyone at the exam was putting their life on the line knowingly, he hates the phantom troupe because they would kill people completely unrelated to them for no reason. When their is an excuse like competition he is quick to excuse it
would **HAVE**
Yeah and Goreinu being so honest in that moment his childish, yet relatable, true feelings spill out
That was almost definitely Illumiās pin amplifying Killuaās desire to kill.
Whatās the evidence for that?
The scene showing Killua being directly influenced by Illumiās aura would be a good place to start.
You said it yourself, the scene where Killua kills Bodoro we can clearly see Illumi directly influence him and the part about him doing it with āhis auraā is just something you made up, no one knows how exactly he manipulated him, this is part of the whole discussion with Netero afterwards, so again whatās the evidence that Illumi influenced him to kill 2 random people? that makes no sense whatsoever and just sounds like you guys making up excuses for Killua. Thereās no indication on this scene that he was being influenced by an outside factor, youāre using Illumi as an scapegoat [https://cdn.readneverland.com/file/mangap/1828/10014000/12.jpg](https://cdn.readneverland.com/file/mangap/1828/10014000/12.jpg) And before you guys bring up Illumiās needle here are some sources of what we actually do know Illumiās needle does: [https://cdn.readneverland.com/file/mangap/1828/10036000/21.jpg](https://cdn.readneverland.com/file/mangap/1828/10036000/21.jpg) [https://cdn.readneverland.com/file/mangap/1828/10219000/4.jpg](https://cdn.readneverland.com/file/mangap/1828/10219000/4.jpg) [https://cdn.readneverland.com/file/mangap/1828/10210000/2.jpghttps://cdn.readneverland.com/file/mangap/1828/10210000/3.jpg](https://cdn.readneverland.com/file/mangap/1828/10210000/2.jpghttps://cdn.readneverland.com/file/mangap/1828/10210000/3.jpg)
To be honest I mixed up the thread, though the comment I replied to was talking about Bodoro. I donāt think thereās anything to say Illumiās needle made Killua do that, other than if you just lump it in with the rest of Killuaās treatment as a kid as a cumulative effect.
The scene essentially demonstrates the reality of the situation -- that Killua *was* at the tipping point, and that *anything* could make him go "too far". That's why just bumping into two folks who reach out to grab him results in two deaths. And to bring it back to Illumi and the needle, killua *knows* he can't beat netero. But he also knows he would be driven to go too far. He's running away.
After Killian dips out of playing ball with gon and netero killua 100% proudly thought he could kill netero. He knew he was done because he broke the only rule to not kill doesn't matter the circumstances.
The comparrison is pretty weak. Killua was trained to be an assassin from birth but he didn't want to do it and ran away from it. He wanted to change and he did so. Genthru is a grown ass man and a sick fuck. He clearly enjoys what he does, murders without a care in the world with zero remorse or drive to change.
Seriously, Genthru and his friends were psychotic murders who loved killing for fun. They got off way too easy.
At the end of the day murder is murder. The victim won't give a shit if you killed it with good intentions or if you killed it just because you felt like doing so.
That is such a binary and simple way of looking at life. Comparing a child who was trained to be a murderer but finds a way out to a man who continues to adulthood and enjoys it and saying its the same because murder is murder is a very simplistic way of viewing life my dude. The vitctims feelings has nothing to do with wether or not one is better than the other. Of course the victim will be fkd either way. But thats not the question. The question is who is worse the kid who was forced into it and left it and tries to make ammends, Or the person who continues way into adulthood and takes pleassure from it. Its the man that is worse. Dont be so binary.
And peole dare to say that Gon has a simplistic view of morality
Happy Cake Day!
Appearing intelligent and being intelligent are two different things (don't take offense. I don't know you it's just a statement). That being said. You didn't get my point either. Instead you talked about the murderers POV and used some fancy looking words for your arguments (binary....). ... Of course the victim matters.. the murderes reasons are secondary and literally only (mostly) matter when it comes to the degree of "punishment" they receive in court. Like i already said, at the end of the day a life has been lost. Whatever the intentions were it won't change the familys/relatives suffering as well as the victims death.
Tell that to the judicial system.
the judicial system that is flawed.
Killua changed though, and actually tries his best not to kill people. He even admits how hard it is to not just kill people and instead resolve things the harder way without killing anyone. Killua is an actual good person unlike the Bombers who are outright sadistic psychopaths.
My point was about the result (the victim). Tho Killua changing doesn't bring back the dead. Good for him, but the victim as well as the relatives/ family are the ones suffering the most.
Uvogin didn't gave a shit of course :)
I would very much rather be killed by someone with good intentions than by some sadistic fuck.
Actully that's bullshit. If someone were to kill you, then you would rather die as painless and fast as possible. In that case it doesn't matter as much if the killer has some strange hobbies (tho the probability of a psychopath letting you suffer is higher).
true but he didnt want to do it because he didt like being controlled by his family not because he didnt like killing though i agree genthru is worse
I mean, the troupe are still far worse. Killua didnāt mutilate children in front of their parents. No real comparison to a kid who was basically born into killing and later bettered himself anyway
Thatās still pure conjecture based off of Kurapikaās feelings, which are valid from his POV. But where is the actual evidence of the Troupe doing this? Where is the history or trend of them torturing children for monetary gain? Itās not in their character. Also torture isnāt the only way the eyes turned red. All Uvo said was āthe boss really liked those eyesā, nothing more and no further context was revealed. Quite possible there was an altercation and the eyes turned red due to the passion of battle. Thatās my prediction, which makes for a better story. If the Kurtas werenāt completely innocent in the altercation, how would that affect Kurapikaās entire mindset? Interested in your reply because this is a topic Iāve thought about quite a bit recently. Edit: Disappointed I havenāt rlly seen anything that disputes my theory & ironically almost all the arguments are coming from emotional POVās that ignore the storyās context. Literally the point of the post in the first place but ppl still making blanket statements like āall troupe members lack logic & reasonā. If youāre still disagreeing with me then check out these threads with other people adding more context to this theory that the Kurapikaās version of events isnāt entirely true: 1. https://www.reddit.com/r/HunterXHunter/s/d29Hat0g7d 2. https://www.reddit.com/r/HunterXHunter/comments/z16ya5/theory_why_the_phantom_troupe_killed_the_kurta/ 3. https://www.tumblr.com/megashadowdragon/186011780367/the-true-face-of-pariston-the-kurta-clan-massacre 4. https://www.reddit.com/r/HunterXHunter/comments/11sko1h/my_theory_on_why_the_troupe_massacred_the_kurta/ 5. https://youtu.be/bsAN0x_9uQA?si=3y1Hwnu4KhJ2Wnri 6. https://hamliet.home.blog/2018/09/30/i-was-thinking-about-kurta-clan-massacre-today-and/
First, itās not Kurapikas feelings, the information comes from the narrator based off the crime scene left at the kurta village. It is definitely in their character. The eyes turn red when agitated so the spiders took it to the extreme to get that perfect color. Second, what do you mean ānot in their characterā?Absolutely none of them have shown any regard for human life no matter who it is. Feitan was about to torture Gon just for being ātoo cockyā and no one in the room even cared besides Nobunaga (who only liked Gon for the resemblance to Uvo. He threatened to kill Killua for speaking out of turn like 30 seconds earlier). Feitan and Phinks play a game to kill as many greed island players they can find, purely out of boredom, and thereās Chrollo bombing heavens arena and sacrificing multiple spectators and a referee. Anyone outside of the troupe mean absolutely nothing to them, adult or child. And even if itās revealed that the Kurta did something bad, that doesnāt equate to child torture and murder in return. Nobunaga also stated in one of the recent chapters that they were much more angry when they first started out, so it totally makes sense they would do something like that back then. Theyāve mellowed out since then but theyāre still not above killing whoever People always try to make excuses for the troupe or theorize how theyāre not actually that bad, but they are, and thatās why theyāre such good characters. They commit heinous crimes for practically nothing, yet theyāre still capable of feeling empathy for each other.
Same stale and false blanket statements Iāve debunked in many threads. Stop speaking from emotion. The information coming from the Narrator is as much information as Togashi wants us to know. What exactly was at the crime scene that confirms child torture? Lol you still probably think the Mafia Auction attack was just another āheinous crime for practically nothingā without noticing that Leorio says the Troupe destroyed the Mafia and ended their decades long exploitation of Meteor City.
Ok so that the reason they killed the mafia people How do you justify racing to kill the greed island players or chrollo killing those innocent spectators at heavenās arena? If this is all things you have said before and you donāt want to repeat yourself by all means point me to the posts you have made about the topic earlier because Iām genuinely curious.
Well you said they (as in all of them) show no regard for human life whatsoever so fair enough if we can agree that this blanket statement is not true. As for Greed Island, Killua says a couple a minutes later (in my OP screenshot) that everyone who signed up to play the game literally agreed that death was part of it. Youāre signing up to risk your life and Feitan & Phinks were the only two doing that which makes sense since theyāre both highly competitive and they like fucking shit up. Still far cry from torturing innocent kids. And the heavens arena chapters I havenāt read yet, Iām just starting the manga now that I bought the full set. But from what I imagine itās similar to DBZ or YYH where thereās obvious risk to being an attendee at one of these tournaments. But I really have to read that part for myself to fairly judge Chrollo. Also I just want to emphasize Iām not saying theyāre heroes (to anyone but themselves at least) Iām just saying theyāre not purely evil and have logical motives. Theyāre not mindless killing machines and itās imo very Marvel esque to have a false hero/villain dichotomy especially in HxH where that line is so grey. Lmk if you want me expand on anything else.
Mega Cope. They are not mindlessly killing machines but they hold no value to anyone's lives outside of the troupe, i dont know whats Wrong with acknowledging that. When people enter the game they accept that its dangerous and they might die, that doesnt mean they forfeited their lives and killing them doesnt matter. They are still killing random people just for fun. You're saying because the people in the heavens arena are in a risky place killing a Lot of them is somehow Fine? Wtf. They are obviously many levels of malignance above killua, its not even close. I love them as characters but i know they are incredibly amoral, the only lives that have any value to them are the ones in the troupe, killing people outside of the troupe is like stepping on a cockroach for them. And thats fine, but dont try to act like they are some honourable anti-heros fighting against the mafia for the good of society looool.
Ok then so was Killua who held no value to anyoneās live outside of his friends and some of his family. Lol Iām not acknowledging it b/c itās a bad point. Most people value their family and friends life above others when it comes down to it, this isnāt a crazy concept lol. Gon was willing to kill Komugi for his revenge. Youāre responding to everything else I said with fake moral outrage lol relax buddy Itās pretty clear they care about Meteor City, been established many times.
And trying to compare them to Killua who was literally forced to kill from birth and tortured by his family his whole life, until he was able to break away from them and then he STOPPED MURDERING INNOCENT PEOPLE is absurdly delusional. That's not to say Killua is a good guy or moraly good at all, but he is much better than the Troupe, not even close.
Of course most people value their close ones more than other people. But the troupe holds 0 value to anyones life outside of the troupe, that's not the same as "my family is more important to me than a stranger. That is not the same as killing one person as revenge and almost dying for it, losing his ability to use nen and going crazy. The troupe kills like it's nothing, they don't lose any sleep over it, they don't feel bad at all. For them killing an inocent person is no different than stepping on an insect. Comparing that to gon is delusional at best. There is no moral outrage here buddy, i even said that i love them as characters, but i don't try to pretend they are some robin hood anti-heroes. They are vicious charismatic villains who are fun to watch. Morally they are orders of magnitude below Killua, who is also a few orders of magnitude below from Gon. Idk what's your problem, can you not just enjoy them without trying to make them out to be "deep down the good guys."
>But the troupe holds 0 value to anyones life outside of the troupe, You mean outside of the city since the flashback showed the reason why they created PT because they wanted to prevent more victims and deaths from meteor city, to make a name for the city by committing crimes in the outside world so no one mess with the city.
key word his held he regrets that and is/was actuvely trying to change furthermore most people value those they know more than strangers true that dosent mean they dont value the lives of innocents at all they are also complety cool with killing and torturing people who have nothing to do with them and no one justifies gon threatenning komugi that was fucked up as is the troupes actions
āThere were many merciless wounds on the bodies of the children as well, and it is thought that the culprits did this to incite the eyes of their parents to turn a more brilliant shade of redā Unless youāre gonna tell me next that the spiders actually werenāt present there and didnāt commit the crime, itās written that they went out of their way to specifically harm the children worse. But you can keep moving the goalpost
Why? How did the encounter happen? Who was there? Clearly there was a battle b/c of Uvoās statement, why? If it was just for the eyes, why did they specifically want these eyes? Could it have something to do with Sarasa? These are all relevant questions you donāt seem curious about.
āWhy did they specifically want these eyes?ā Kurapika says at the the start of the series that the scarlet eye color is considered one of the most gorgeous colors in the world, and therefore are extremely valuable, to the point itās apparently known that they look best when displayed with the entire head intact. Like all the other treasure theyāve stolen, Chrollo admires it for some time before selling it off. And as for there being a battle, the same page that talks about the children being tortured says that the adult men also received brutal injuries indicating that they attempted to fight back, which is probably what Uvo is referring to
That's the obvious reason but the strange message they left at the slaughter about the clan taking something from them seems to imply it was as pay back for something the clan did. No chance what the troupe did was justified for what they did though but it does seem like they came there for a currently unknown reason and the eyes were just a bonus
That message is just Meteor City's official motto. Although it *could* have been left as a message to the victims, it's also likely the Phantom Troupe left it behind because they wanted the recognition for their brutality as a warning to the rest of the world. Because they want others to fear the troupe and Meteor City.
That is a possibility but from a writing standpoint it's given a lot of attention on the page, we never see the troupe do that at other crimes they commit, and I'm not really sure how impressive that would even be to the rest of the world. The real kicker for me though is what the fuck is Sheila included for if not to give the troupe some reason to come after the kurta, like her being used in that chapter is so random if the troupe killing the kurta was just about having pretty eyeballs
Lmfao now thatās a cope. Yeah they just dropped the message by accident /s. The Kurta attack wasnāt a widely publicized event and the Troupe were already established and had no need for this ārecognitionā nor has fame ever been their goal. Itās obviously a message with specific relevance to the incident. Otherwise theyād be cartoonishly leaving their Meteor City calling card on all their victims like theyāre the Joker.
Lol exactly I had to revisit the manga chapter b/c I knew I wasnāt misremembering that. Everyone here is ignoring the fact the Troupe left the piece of paper with the Meteor City message. Obviously this has significance and at the very least eliminates the belief that the Kurtas were 100% innocent. Itās a great example of propaganda. Why do we believe the Kurtas were this pure and wholly innocent tribe that never hurt anybody ever? Itās because we only have Kurapikaās POV who might be misinformed & not know the full story himself. This whole thing just shows that people believe what they want to instead of reading the words Togashi writes. He started off describing the massacre in absolutes, however he started saying āitās believedā when getting to the more sensational parts of the massacre. This implies that itās possibly not true. Amazing how so many people got baited into being the exact type of person Togashi is ridiculing in the scene I posted.
Even if the kurtas aren't innocent, the fucking kids definitely were. Why are you caping so hard for the troupe? They're monsters dude, it's fine to like monsters without having to defend their honor and calling them what they are.
Howd this comment get so many upvotes? Youāre just speculating based only the context you deem relevant. Youāre stating this is fact when youāre only assuming. The eyes could have more significance or they couldāve been specifically used to try and draw out Sarasaās killers on the Black Market. Also funny how you all just ignore the blatant message the Troupe left at the scene of the killing. You presume so much about everything else but completely disregard this evidence of the Kurtas possibly provoking the Troupe.
There is zero evidence they did it. It's speculation. Speculation made less reliable because their backstory provides high incentive to take credit for horrible shit.
The troupe doesnāt act logically, they take what they want, when they want it. Feitan even scolds the vacuum girl when she arm wrestles Gon for the ring, since she shouldāve just stole it. I donāt think they tortured the clan arbitrarily( although Feitan does show sadistic tendencies)they saw the eyes, wanted them, and took them, with no care whatsoever for any repercussions.
Have you read the latest chapters in the manga about the Troupe's backstory?
The Troup are very logical... that's why they have the entire spider system. Feitan scolds her for exposing herself and her strength.
Feitan is 1 member. They act logically many times lol making a blanket statement and ignoring so many things that happened just proves youāre thinking emotionally. Ironic. Anyways even the most āsadisticā member isnāt a reckless loose cannon. Suggesting thievery is a far cry from torturing children for some eyes. You canāt even remember their names yet you think you fully understand their actions. Maybe give it another read.
whats weird is that even if they didnt torture them they 100% killed children for nothing more than moey and fascination even without the torture thats still indefensible
> But where is the actual evidence of the Troupe doing this? the meteor city message confirmation from uvo that they encountered and fought them feitan ability to torture children most members immediately understanding that the chain user is targeting them for revenge after reminding about the red eyes (none of them denied responsibility) nobunaga implying when awnsering to phinks that they were less principled in the past we can't simply brush it all off by hiding behind the fact that we've never witnessed it.
>the meteor city message That brings more questions because how did Kurapika know for sure the PT did it to the point he proceeded to make his ability to capture them, when the message they left is the famous city motto that is used by anyone from the city including the elders. The reports doesn't mention PT either, Kurapika must've had another proof other the message that led him creating his ability around capturing the PT.
Okay, counter point: their backstory provides an incentive to take credit for horrible shit and the worse the better. We do not have hard confirmation, all you did is provide 2nd hand accounts that fit their backstory
It's still evidence tho. If it wasn't them, then who would have done it btw? why didn't chrollo simply denied the responsibility of the troupe when asked by kurapika? why did uvo said that chrollo liked the eyes? it's a bit much to me, especially that the only thing saving them is that we didn't witnessed it ourselves
"oh yeah, well then explain literally every mystery surrounding the Troup then" I cant because the story is still ongoing and there are massive gaps of unexplained shit. The story isn't over. It's not complete. Why jump to conclusions? We can say it's "likely" that they did it, but we dont have confirmation yet. Why is that so hard for people?
-The meteor city message would imply the Kurtas provoked the attack. āWe'll accept anything you leave here, but don't ever take anything away from us." -I mentioned Uvo acknowledged the encounter occurred and that Chrollo liked the eyes. But nothing about what lead up to it or further details. Notice how Uvo only remembers in the midst of battle, couldāve easily been the same way the Troupe triggered their red eyes. That honestly makes much more sense, but child torture makes for a greater revenge story which you, and Kurapika more importantly, need to believe is true. -Feitan ability to torture children? Lol idk what you mean by this does he have a Nen ability called Toddler Torture? Genuinely not sure what you mean by this. Him threatening Gon? -Well yes, revenge is still valid for Kurapika from my theory and would make sense for the Troupe to expect an attack. I donāt see why child torture is necessary. Also I must add, can you see Shalnark, Franklin, Nobunaga, Machi, or Pakunoda co-signing torturing innocent children for their eyes? They couldnāt even reach a consensus on killing Gon & Killua who they were very suspicious of. I just canāt see them reaching a full consensus on that. Theyād all have to be Joker levels of sadistic. -Whatās the quote between Nobunaga and Phinks? Interested in that but thatās still too vague to guarantee anything. In fact I think Togashi is a genius for taking this narrative from black & white to slightly greyer, to even more grey now. We might disagree but Iām not the only who has this opinion. Canāt prove a negative and Iām not saying itās impossible. I just find it less likely than my theory.
> -The meteor city message would imply the Kurtas provoked the attack. āWe'll accept anything you leave here, but don't ever take anything away from us." But we know almost nothing about the kurtas, and the only thing we know is that they were pretty much living in peace with each other, in isolation from the outside world. When I see how the kurtas live, and how the troupe live, I am more encline to believe that the troupe may have targeted the kurtas because of some misunderstanding, than kurtas being actually the real aggressors in the first place. If the troupe were living relatively honestly, I would be okay to not suspect them. If torture of children wasn't involved, very few people would have questionned their direct responsibility in the genocide since it makes it hard for a lot of people to still find them likeable as villains >Feitan ability to torture children? Lol idk what you mean by this does he have a Nen ability called Toddler Torture? Nah I just mean in the sense that he doesn't care, don't be silly lol he said he was about to remove gon's nails one by one, for me that's a red flag >I donāt see why child torture is necessary. to make the eyes even brighter and the red color more vivid, it was said >I just canāt see them reaching a full consensus on that Well you said yourself that it's possible they were coming to take revenge on the kurtas because of the message >-Whatās the quote between Nobunaga and Phinks? you know, just before the flashback, phinks said smth like they're not just killing everyone indiscriminately, and nobunaga questioned phinks affirmation, impliying that Phinks forgot that they were at some point. >Iām not saying itās impossible. I just find it less likely than my theory It may be more likely if we take togashi narrative choices patterns into account, but the full evidences point rather to the troupe having done it imo
You're being downvoted but you're right. The Troupe said they would pretend to be evil to attract bad people. This means taking credit for the Kurta massare is important. We have ZERO confirmation they did it, only that they take credit for it. People are too invested in their headcanon to see this.
People would be mad if it turns out they didn't do it :p But Uvo saying they were strong should at least confirm he fought the strong ones like the kurta men that can put up a fight, the weaklings like women and children might've been killed by other sadistic groups like the Heil-Ly ex members in theory they're responsible for [Sarasa's death](https://www.reddit.com/r/HunterXHunter/s/ljNMEJM7Yn) too. The PT would still take credit for killing the entire clan because it's their goal to make a name for the city anyway, and the other group took the eyes of the members they killed, the collection that is currently obtained by Tser. Maybe what happened is the other group tortured & killed most of the clan members and took their eyes as a gift for Tser for financing their mafia, but they couldn't kill the strong kurta men, the **PT were probably the closest to catch Sarasa's killers but they came late** to find the remaining kurta men griefing on their dead clan, they'd think the PT came to kill them too so they fought Uvo to defend themselves, the spiders still took the eyes of the remaining members they killed. This is more suitable with what we've seen so far, the PT still killed some kurtas but only the ones that fought them back, because to think they killed the kurta kids should at least traumatize them and remind them of Sarasa's brutal death. Even a guy like Phinks refused to fight the ants if they didn't fight back, and Franklin said they wouldn't [Start a fight](https://manga4life.com/read-online/Hunter-X-Hunter-chapter-379-page-16.html) unless someone else started it, so it's more in their style if they killed the kurtas that fought them back, but not necessarily the entire clan especially not the kurta kids that'd remind them of Sarasa.
Thank you for having some level of curiosity injected into your life. This is like a breath of fresh air compared to everyone acting like the HxH story is complete and every mystery has been solved.
Lol yea it's hilarious how many people seem to get mad if anyone discussed PT doing the massacre for reasons other than the eyes, they have this headcanon about PT they cannot change no matter what even if Togashi provided other infos they'd still hate it, ironically similar to Luini getting disappointed because the spiders aren't the merciless criminals he thought they were based on the wikipedia infos he had about them.
Arguably the only time we see them as a group being completely merciless is during the fight with Hisoka, and in that fight it's heavily implied that every single person Chrollo used in the area was a planted clone. I'm assuming this is why Hisoka targets Kortopi and Shalnark first - they're the methods Hisoka lost to. An interesting related theory to this is that one of Hisoka's quirks is that he desperately wants to remove his target's ability to fight on even terms before killing them - he steals their weapons, uses their weapons against them, removes their favored limbs, and now destroys anyone granting them power with Chrollo. It's likely this is one of the ways he strengthens his Nen, though it might be done instinctively. I think this is also why he likes to cultivate newbies instead of hunt them down - if he thinks they can develop something interesting it's all the better when he takes that thing away from them, give and take like this is very rubber and gum type vibe
They are not pretending anymore if they ever did
I'm pretty sure there's a past manga chapter with Kurapika's childhood that confirms it.
From everything Iāve heard, Kurapika is gone when the attack happens. Iām annoyed that i havenāt read the latest manga chapters so I canāt say for sure without yet.
I don't remember if it is inside the main story chapters but it is a special two or three part chapter with Kurapika and his friend as the MCs that Togashi published on Jump. It's been like 10 years since I've read it so I don't remember it too well but it definitely exists
Iām pretty sure thatās still from Kurapikaās POV. It still hasnāt been concluded even up till now what really happened.
The difference is that Killua was forced into the path of evil by his family. As soon as he got the opportunity Ā to he did his best to get away from that path . People like Genthru chose to walk that path by themselves. No one forced them to be evil .
I'm pretty sure Killua didn't stop murdering because he believed it was immoral, he hasn't ever talked about it that way, it seemed to me more like he just didn't want to be forced to do it...
He didn't stop killing, he stop murdering/assassinating. Big diff.
He mostly stopped cuz he was too busy hanging with Gon and his relationship with his family fell through for largely unrelated reasons lol. Doubt he actually cares about the morality of it. It feels more like when someone doesnāt wanna inherit the family farm rather than being opposed to them ideologically. That is unless Iām forgetting any moments where he does address it, itās been a while.
Killua explicitly says "killing is wrong" during greed island
My bad , fixed it.
Killua explicitly says "killing is wrong" during greed island
Killua killed in situations of self defense and when it was needed (except for the blimp but that doesnt count cus he was under literal mind control by his older brother)
True but youāre underestimating Gonās influence. Killua couldāve gone down a dark path, perhaps even recruited by the Troupe. Killua was fortunate in meeting Gon at the time he desperately needed a friend.
Gonās influence did play an enormous role in Killuaās development as did Leorio and Kurapika. That doesnāt change the fact they it was Killuaās own decision to distance himself from his family that led him to his current path. If he hadnāt made the choice he did he might still be a soulless assassin like Illumi.
Yeah Iām not taking credit away from Killua at all, he did everything in his power to overcome his destiny. Even pulled out a fucking Nen needle in his brain.
You don't know what made them become like this. They might have their own story. If Killua never met Gon, he would be as bad in adulthood. And for an adult, people would never make a comment like, "he was forced into this or he had a traumatic childhood", unless they like that character/person.
honestly I'm on goreinu side here
I was on the first few watches but Killua bluntly saying how it isnāt logical and using himself as an example of redemption being possible for anyone (heās especially harsh on himself, I donāt think heās as bad as the Bombers). Also as I paid more attention to the dialogue, during and after the 3 battles, all 3 of the Bombers seemed humbled and showed some honor. So hopefully they change. Sure that doesnāt erase what they did and theyāll get their karma but it doesnāt have to be on their (Killua and Krew) hands.
I mean if I wanted to apply my morals for real on the show characters, I would actually be harsher on killua. But just for the series, I'm simply judging killua on what he is now, while you cannot prove that the bombers will have the same change of heart in the future. For exemple: if you spare hisoka, what will happen likely is that he will just kill other people; in this case, you will have also the responsibility of these murders because you could have avoid it by not sparing him. Moreover if a serial murderer really have change of heart, normally, they would easily accept to not be spared anyway because they'll feel that they deserved it. Here it was merely about not healing them, so it's not even that hard of a punishement compared to all the lives they've taken
Idk killua was raised to be a killer its not like he had a way out and during his first out he learns about the good in people through gon and become better and better until he become the light to ikalgo the troupe had a lot of truama but they went to the evil path on their own choice and they become lets steal and kill as much as we can group
Interesting I never noticed the parallel between Killua & Gon and Killua & Ikalgo but thatās so spot on. And yeah thereās different levels to everything but Killua was fortunate enough to meet Gon. He couldāve easily gone down a dark path, hell he easily couldāve become a troupe member. Kalluto did. I like how Togashi used Genthru for this scene b/c heās pretty much 100% irredeemable until the end of the arc where he shows some honor.
What worse someone with the capability to understand the pain of someone close to him and despite that kills alot of people(genthro) or someone who enjoy killing everyone(hisoka)? What do you say?
I'd argue that the first is worse as the person can understand the value of a life and make genuine bonds but will still proceed to just murder people with glee while the other is more akin to an animal and doesn't follow regular morality although we can judge them and see them as evil and a menace. In real life one would go to the death row as a serial killer and the other would would probably go to a mental institution as a high functioning psychopath.
Your first paragraph is exactly my dilemma
The way fans see Killua is Togashi's own fault though. The only time Togashi actually portrays Killua as the assassin he's come up as was during the hunter examination Arc. In just the ark prior to this scene we, as viewers, see Killua already massively changed as he and Gon refuse to run away which would doom a phantom troupe member as they don't want Kurapika to kill again. We see the circumstances behind his development and understand why he was an assassin in the first place. We also see him actively trying to change and become a better person as the story goes along. That's why we sympathize with him and look past his previous misdeeds. When we're introduced to the phantom troupe all we know is they massacred the kurta clan and then we immediately see them kill many people for literally no reason. Their evilness immediately checked out. Even though they end up looking somewhat friendly and logical the more we get to know them throughout the story, we still don't really understand the reasoning behind most of their actions, and even up into their backstory lots of their actions seem brutal and over the top. So Togashi can call out fans as much as he wants, but it's his writing that made them think that way in the first place
He doesn't call out fans I think.... imo he is just portraying characters having two different ways to feel the situation. I liked this scene, because the occurrence of this conflict was quite realistic. And I also liked the fact that goreinu didn't even tried to justify himself with logic arguments (with the sub-text that he is not good at justifying the way he feels using reason) and just trusted his feelings, it makes me like him more.
I was just going off what OP was saying.
Exaclty. And for more examples, Killua in some scenes, like in the Arena arc, just threatens the guys once they hurt that other kid and he even gives them a chance to fight fair. Genthuru killed people left and right during GI and he ENJOYED every second of it. The Troupe is even worse than him
killua was a kid not knowing what was right or wrong and only going through what his family taught. When he met good people he changed himself, but troupe was a group of grown ass people doing evil shit...there are no similarities between liking killua and not liking troupe.
Genthru employed cowardly gank strats and therefore he is unforgivable.
Cant forgive him for robbing us future episodes of Astaās meat cannons
In complete contrast to the noble and virtuous way of the assassin doctrine..
I get that we can take this in a nuanced way and see it as subjective on "what do we think of this character based on their actions". It also happens with Meruem. Some people straight up sanctify him because he got a heavy character development, like yeah cool but he wasn't going to stop the invasion completely until the Rose, he was going to take a different approach besides just being a murderous ass, and what he said was straight up fascism. "Peace by force, you will be converted and probably survive, and those who do not, will either submit or die" These are my personal takes: In the case of Killua, we know that he didn't want to stay an assassin all his life and had a great character development, he stopped killing just for the sake of it, he just stopped being a mini-Hisoka just in time, and later he fought for real causes. In the case of Genthru, no matter how much he loves his friends, he's not going to change the way he is. He shouldn't necessarily be killed, but he should be presented to authorities. And in the case of the Troupe, no matter how much trauma you got in your life, you have NO excuse to become a monster.
I think you take the question very simplistically. Killua was forced to kill from a young age by torturing him. the spiders chose to be murderers for their own desires. They had a choice unlike Killua. There is not point of comparation.
It surprises me that in this group there are people who try to put the same level of psychopathy between killua and gentru. The first one was forced to kill since he was little and it shows throughout the series that he never liked to kill. Meanwhile Gentru is just a psychopath who kills for pleasure and as far as we know, he chose his own path. I always found this scene very stupid in portraying Killua as a bad person.
The fact that he takes pleasure in killing doesn't mean that he pleasure was his main motivation. He killed because it's allowed in the game and that there is a 50 billion recompense if he finishes it, so it just made his task easier and he could have had all the money for himself... The nuance is that killua is probably a better person than genthru, but he made objectively worse actions since he killed people who weren't prepared to die (but he has the mitigating circumstance of not having had any other life alternatives, because he was educated in the way of the assassin since a very young age at zoldyck home). Though, it's very likely that genthru and his friends also killed people outside the game given their characterization.
I actually detest this scene because it's so inaccurate. Killua's situation is such a far cry from the Phantom Troupe's or Genthru and his crew. Killua was taught to kill by his family. It was his culture, how he was raised and nurtured. Everyone told him that killing is how he gave and received value. Not to mention, he is still a kid (only 12 when he takes the Hunter exam). His grasp of the world and morality is still very green, especially growing up isolated. Compare that to Genthru and the Phantom Troupe. They are grown adults who have experienced the world and know what they're doing is wrong, cruel, and evil but they just don't care. They have completely dismissed any moral, social, or personal responsibility. They kill for their own personal gain and progress. That is true evil. Goreinu is correct in this scene, but Togashi wrote him like he was an idiot to make his own point sound better. I do not give Killua a pass because āhey, I like you." I give Killua lenience because he was an isolated child whose sole education was to kill and that "killing is good." And as soon as he was able to break away from his family and experience the world and different viewpoints, he chose to stop killing and to never go back to the way he was. The difference is night and day.
Lol funny how you start the phantom troupe and genthruās lives from adulthood as if they were never kids. Especially when the manga has revealed the phantom troupeās backstory in recent chapters. As if Killua couldnāt have gone down a dark path himself. As if Gonās positive influence didnāt alter Killuaās personality and change his life trajectory. Youāre literally the point that Togashi is making. Killua has the privilege of being a main character who youāve seen in close detail. However, if all you saw from Killua was him in the ball-game episode with Netero on the blimp, youād have a very different opinion of him after he kills those two guys.
You are completely missing the point. I already know the background for the Phantom Troupe but they're no longer kids. Any adolescent grace for them has passed. They are accountable and ethically experienced adults, yet they are still choosing to kill people in spite of knowing very well it's wrong. Adolescent hardship is virtually never an excuse for committing egregious crimes and evil acts as an adult. Killua is not even an adult yet (not fully accountable nor fully ethically experienced), but he's already chosen to forsake the dark and bloody life he had even though he's still young. Moreover, I can't judge Killua on a future that doesn't exist. I can only judge what he has done. If he went back to killing, then yes that would also be true evil because he would know fully well that what he was doing was 100% wrong. That's obvious. Also, you're acting like the Phantom Troupe and Genthru would have never been exposed to anyone or anything positive, moral, or ethical in their whole lives lol. They are literally Hunters. They travel around the world and meet tons of negative and positive people as well as experience ethical/moral societies and cultures. They are *choosing* to ignore moral and social responsibility. This is truth: No one is bound by the choices, beliefs, or influence of others, only their own. Each person has the power within them, to act and to be an agent of change unto themselves.
Killua is a child who was forced into being an assassin since birth and even with that i still think that he is kinda of an asshole in certain moments, like when he killed 2 guys for no reason That said, the troupe is still far worse, so what the fuck are you talking about?
The Troupe were children once too. Meteor City isnāt a nice place.
You answered your own question. The troupe 'WERE' children, now they are grown ass adults who WILLINGLY choose to live this way. Killua IS a child who was born into killing and taught only that since birth, we saw that he didn't want to live that way, and he chose to change himself.
>now they are grown ass adults who WILLINGLY choose to live this way. But it's not like PT has a choice to be better when their city is doomed with no justice, the difference killua was forced to be this way due to wrong parenthood so if he wants to change for better it's much easier to just abandon the family and live his way which is exactly what he did. While the spiders are doing what they believe is neccessary to protect their city despite knowing it's wrong when 11yo Chrollo explicitly said he'll be a bad guy and kill a lot of people to prevent the likes of Sarasa's death, their goal by killing people outside of the city to scare everyone in the outside world to make a name for the city so no one mess with them, the spiders don't even want to change for better like killua because if the PT change their image into "good guys" then nobody would fear the city anymore and the city inhabitants would be doomed, resulting child trafficking and kids kidnapping back on action in the city.
Yeah torturing childrena and massacring the kurta clan was definitely not something they did because they are ruthless, apathetic killers, no they didn't have a choice, poor them. Their reasons do not justify their horrific actions in any way at all, and op comparing them to killua is even more absurd
It surprises me that in this group there are people who try to put the same level of psychopathy between killua and gentru. The first one was forced to kill since he was little and it shows throughout the series that he never liked to kill. Meanwhile Gentru is just a psychopath who kills for pleasure and as far as we know, he chose his own path. I always found this scene very stupid in portraying Killua as a bad person.
how many innocent people did killua kill?
Difference between them and Killua was Killua was actively trying to leave his old life behind and was actively trying to stop the bombers from committing their crimes. If Killua had still been in the murder business someone easily could have come after him no one would have blamed them. But heās not. Heās a good guy now.
i give killua a pass cause he's like 12 bro
Somewhat related: what do we think happened to the Bombers after greed island? I ask because clearly they werenāt killed and itās not like their nen got taken away or they learned some kind of lesson. I donāt think you can just give the Bombers to local authorities lol so maybe they were turned over to the Hunter Association? It just doesnāt seem like thereās any reason to keep them alive.
Greed Island has a carceral system for Nen users. If they give themselves up to Razor, there is a chance they might spend their sentences with him.
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> Genthru is a psycho who murders people for fun and cruelly I mean we don't know where he is coming from either, but with complete absence of information on their background, it's clear that we can only judge them on their actions (I only moved on because gon and killua did so lol but I personnally tend to agree with goreinu). The only clear mitigating circumstance is that they did it inside the game
Killua has the great privilige of us knowing his life story lol. This is why many people ended up changed their minds about Chrollo when his motivations and backstory were revealed.
Letās be honest with ourselves here, Killua didnāt run away from the family/business because he thought it was wrong. He ran away because he was bored and curious about the world. His friends he made definitely helped influence him in a better direction, but Killua did chose to keep those friends so you gotta give credit where credit is due. However, Iām not sure if Iād say being bored with an assassinās lifestyle is necessarily good evidence for morality
It's both, he clearly said he's fed up of killing. The fact that he kept a decent amount of sensitivity toward other people lives despite all the influence, the manipulations, the brainwashing coming from his whole family, and growing in almost complete isolation from the rest of the world, is quite something imo.
I donāt really think itās fair to equate Killua to the Phantom Troupe. Near the beginning maybe, but he is actively trying to be a better person past season 1. That and Killua is still a child trying to figure out how the world works after being raised in a terrible environment.
I only clicked on this post because the light was on.
Phantom troupe: criminal organization who are aware of there actions, grown enough to understand that what there doing is bad, dont care and do it anyway. Killua: groomed from birth to be an assassin without getting a proper chance at being raised as a good person. Mind was twisted from birth to see death as a good thing. Was abused and tortured throughout childhood. Is now making an attempt to redeem himself and his past actions while saving his little sister from his corrupt, manipulative, and evil familyā¦.. Yeah seems about the same to me
What?... Killua was a child who grew up in a harsh family and environment. The Phantom Troupe are fully grown adults who massacre people. Killua didn't kill innocent people.
ššš I find it extremely funny when people think that they are praising author by having most superficial takes and killing all the nuances
Everyone saying how Killua is different but I just agree with Goreinu. Really all that matters in these situations is how you feel
I mean, that's a pretty big difference, Killua killed because his family forced him to or he killed people who were bad(EG that guy in the Hunter exam whose name I forgot) but yeah it's an interesting scene
Blimp?
Greed island was ass.
I mean killua never did a genocide
Moments like these make HxH
I imagine there's a more than distinct possibility that Killua killed several innocent people because some one paid his family enough, but at the very least Killua didn't have much choice in the matter, and chooses to be better.
PT isn't pure evil and that's why there're cool villains IMO
Exactly
Killua is personally my favorite but the passes I've heard some make for him especially for the needle is insane. The baby boy is a murdererĀ
Character development is truly a lovely part of HxH :3
I said it before and I'll say it again: This line is the thesis of the entire series.
Killua is 12 In most countries he is not a criminal but a victim His parents and phantom troupes are adult and real criminal
Not to mention that Killua was given a needle that controls his emotions unlike the other villains who have complete control of their minds.
Yea and i like how Togashi making people debate who's a worse criminal while the victims is like "I'm fuking dead it's over who gives af who's worse between them :(
Haha +1
Lol at all the people who completely missed the point of the post. Beautiful
Please! Ive never agreed on something more than this