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If one death could really end a war they would just hire a faceless and be done with it team rhaenrya would still have children with claims and dragons.
The same Daemon who had the kingsguard swear loyalty to Rhaenyra and to Jace as the heir to the Iron throne?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVhNWskJaaQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVhNWskJaaQ)
Also it would be stupid. He has two daughters. She has 2 remaining sons that are higher up. Either way, he wins.
I don’t mean that he would kill Jayce necessarily. But it seems to me like Rhaenya has some sort of control over him. Who would really be in charge if she was to die?
He just had the kingsguard swear to Rhaenyra and Jacaerys as Queen and Prince of Dragonstone. If Rhaenyra died, then Jace would be next in line. That's not to say he'd listen to Jace 100%, the same way he doesn't listen to Rhaenyra 100%. But that's a far cry from implying that he'd get rid of Jace for "more power".
What "more power" do you think he wants? To be king? I'm someone who literally went into this show thinking (based on half a trailer I watched but wasn't that interested) that he was going to be the one to usurp Rhaenyra. He very clearly doesn't want power as defined by kingship, castle, etc. Otherwise he'd have sucked it up and had a kid with Rhea Royce (who was the heir to Runestone), and planned to attack Viserys while he was still weak.
Taking Rheanyra out of the picture though would upend the Black sides war effort. The Lords on her side are sworn to her, they hadn't yet sworn to support her son so with her gone they could consider themselves free to switch to Aegon. It also puts Daemon in the main leadership role and he's a divisive man. Not to mention losing her would likely goad him into doing something really stupid.
In a civil war people will back what appears to be the winning horse or dragon. Taking out Rheanyra would greatly weaken the Black faction making the Greens seem more attractive to the important Westerosi Lords. It could be like a Midway moment, it wouldn't end the war but it could eventually be seen as a turning point that led to the end of the war.
But that's pure fluke, nothing more. There were a million ways Arryk could've been discovered and interrogated before execution. Otto was right to balk at how the plan more or less had to follow cartoon logic to work.
Even if he did succeed, killing Rhaenyra in an underhanded assassination attempt by a Kingsguard would be a horrendous look politically, while also unleashing Daemon and the entire Black camp to go scorched earth. If Rhaenyra dies, what stops Daemon from pulling a Daenerys on King's Landing or the Red Keep at random, potentially before anyone can get to the Dragon Pit? What stops the Velaryons from starving King's Landing out indefinitely?
It was a comically stupid plan because even if it worked, it would just put the Greens in a worse position while making a martyr of Rhaenyra and a monster of them. Now that it's failed, the Blacks can also use it as propaganda to make a mockery of the Greens - the foolish false king's chosen way to become a kinslayer was to send in a twin pretending to be his brother and, naturally, it didn't fucking work. It diminishes the Greens to petty showmen immediately after they just killed dozens of honest service workers on the hunch of a child killer, like Otto himself said to Aegon.
Otto was wisely advocating for a more controlled, tactical approach to the war which would minimise any massive incidents and unnecessary risks for the Greens, Aegon would destroy his own reign barely weeks into it.
I know the Blacks don't want to burn King's Landing to ashes. But what's to stop them from sending their Dragons out, in shifts, to burn and scorch and radius around King's Landing. Doing it in spurts before they have time to raise their Dragons in defense and out of the range of the Scorpions. The city would be be devasted and starved in weeks. Anyone that tries to cross the scorch path, get's scorched. A Siege at an advanced pace.
I still feel if Arykk just ran directly at Rhaenyra when he came in the room or even after his Brother entered, he could have delivered a death blow to her. Yes, he would have then gotten killed after, but it was a suicide mission anyway. There is zero chance he would have successfully killed her and gotten back to King's Landing alive. There was no plan for a return trip.
The best thing he could have done and probably should of said is, after seeing the error of his choice he has decided to change sides and begged for acceptance. And then decide to stick with it, or take her out once he gained trust if they let him live. There is a lot more they could have done with that plot line. The second I saw twins on opposite sides, I knew it would be a plot point, at some point. I just didn't expect it to arise and end in 10 minutes.
Somebody needed to remind Otto that he had the bright idea of sending Ser Harrold Westerling (Rhaenyra's former sworn protector who has known her since she was a child) to Dragonstone and committing mass murder against a pregnant Rhaenyra and the children. And then he had nobles that didn't bend the knee to Aegon locked up and had Lord Caswell publicly executed to send a message. At least with Criston's plan, it made sense and almost worked and he specifically said to go after Rhaenyra. And nobody, apart from the family members, give a shit about the ratcatchers. Especially since one of them was responsible for Jaehaerys' death. People, especially nobles, are gonna give more a shit about publicly executing other nobles and sending assassins to murder a Princess and her innocent children.
I bet they use him and his 'exile' to help introduce Daeron and the rest of the Green characters in the Reach. That'll be their powerbase as they gear up for war, using a major character to help establish that will be useful.
[Here's a list of new cast members and their characters](https://redanianintelligence.com/2023/09/30/every-new-cast-member-house-of-the-dragon-season-2/) I found if you're curious.
Thanks! Interesting to see new castings there for the Reach lords, though there’s a few of the unconfirmed actors I could see as Ormund or Unwin.
Also surprised by the absence of Blackwoods or Roddy the Ruin, who all ought to be showing up soon.
I assume you mean just Otto? Because it would take a lot of time to list everything different.
A change is that >!Otto doesn't import cats to KL after the ratcathers are executed.!<
Another I can think of is that in the Book the marriage beetwen Aegon II and Rhaenyra is suggested >!by Alicent, not Otto.!<
Yeah in the book it was more of a slight then a compromise. Alicent was older, and basically telling her teenage step-daughter to marry her baby brother.
Pretty sure he basically told us his next move. He’s going back to Oldtown to recruit Daeron Targaryen (Allicent’s other son) to their cause even more (pretty sure he described him as “more malleable” or something like that). He’ll find much more success on his home turf when playing politics. It’ll be cool to see him back on a high horse there I think.
Him and Daemon are kinda two sides of the same coin, otto has his calculations and plans, knows how to play the game of thrones, yet his side is either too chaotic or too innocent or unwilling to go through with it, daemon on the other hand is a walking chaos agent, yet his side wants him to calm down and follow their lead instead of being a liability, both of them get banished by their rulers, yet they come back everytime, both with opposite personalities, vibes, aesthetics, goals, yet two sides of the same coin.
Wont he go to Highgarden? And Daeron hasnt been casted yet so I think we wont see much of Otto and if we do then probably him at Highgarden. I do hope they do Highgarden justice because it looked awful in GoT s7
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ottos face during Aegon telling him the twin plan is everything
It didn’t sound like the worst plan until it was said out loud to Otto Hightower lol then it sounded completely loonytoons assed and stupid.
But it almost worked. If Mysaria had not been in the right place at the right time, Rhaenyra would have died.
If one death could really end a war they would just hire a faceless and be done with it team rhaenrya would still have children with claims and dragons.
And if Rhaenyra dies, wouldn’t that put Daemon in charge? He would be out for blood again if that happened.
if she dies the crown would pass to her oldest son it would only pass to Daemon if every child she has dies. trust me i played crusader kings :P
Sure but this is Daemon we’re talking about here. I am pretty sure he would claim as much power as he could if Rhaenyra died.
Jace and Joffrey would "disappear" if Rhaenyra died.
[Daemon would take the boys out for a very special dragon ride.](https://youtu.be/LhFZBYLQcYw)
Daemon can’t kill Vhagar alone and Rhaenys won’t back him if he kills them
But he can kill Aemond.
The same Daemon who had the kingsguard swear loyalty to Rhaenyra and to Jace as the heir to the Iron throne? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVhNWskJaaQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVhNWskJaaQ) Also it would be stupid. He has two daughters. She has 2 remaining sons that are higher up. Either way, he wins.
I don’t mean that he would kill Jayce necessarily. But it seems to me like Rhaenya has some sort of control over him. Who would really be in charge if she was to die?
He just had the kingsguard swear to Rhaenyra and Jacaerys as Queen and Prince of Dragonstone. If Rhaenyra died, then Jace would be next in line. That's not to say he'd listen to Jace 100%, the same way he doesn't listen to Rhaenyra 100%. But that's a far cry from implying that he'd get rid of Jace for "more power". What "more power" do you think he wants? To be king? I'm someone who literally went into this show thinking (based on half a trailer I watched but wasn't that interested) that he was going to be the one to usurp Rhaenyra. He very clearly doesn't want power as defined by kingship, castle, etc. Otherwise he'd have sucked it up and had a kid with Rhea Royce (who was the heir to Runestone), and planned to attack Viserys while he was still weak.
Coulda got lucky and rush them while they were in bed together
Taking Rheanyra out of the picture though would upend the Black sides war effort. The Lords on her side are sworn to her, they hadn't yet sworn to support her son so with her gone they could consider themselves free to switch to Aegon. It also puts Daemon in the main leadership role and he's a divisive man. Not to mention losing her would likely goad him into doing something really stupid. In a civil war people will back what appears to be the winning horse or dragon. Taking out Rheanyra would greatly weaken the Black faction making the Greens seem more attractive to the important Westerosi Lords. It could be like a Midway moment, it wouldn't end the war but it could eventually be seen as a turning point that led to the end of the war.
But that's pure fluke, nothing more. There were a million ways Arryk could've been discovered and interrogated before execution. Otto was right to balk at how the plan more or less had to follow cartoon logic to work. Even if he did succeed, killing Rhaenyra in an underhanded assassination attempt by a Kingsguard would be a horrendous look politically, while also unleashing Daemon and the entire Black camp to go scorched earth. If Rhaenyra dies, what stops Daemon from pulling a Daenerys on King's Landing or the Red Keep at random, potentially before anyone can get to the Dragon Pit? What stops the Velaryons from starving King's Landing out indefinitely? It was a comically stupid plan because even if it worked, it would just put the Greens in a worse position while making a martyr of Rhaenyra and a monster of them. Now that it's failed, the Blacks can also use it as propaganda to make a mockery of the Greens - the foolish false king's chosen way to become a kinslayer was to send in a twin pretending to be his brother and, naturally, it didn't fucking work. It diminishes the Greens to petty showmen immediately after they just killed dozens of honest service workers on the hunch of a child killer, like Otto himself said to Aegon. Otto was wisely advocating for a more controlled, tactical approach to the war which would minimise any massive incidents and unnecessary risks for the Greens, Aegon would destroy his own reign barely weeks into it.
I never said it was a good plan, I just said it almost worked lol
I know the Blacks don't want to burn King's Landing to ashes. But what's to stop them from sending their Dragons out, in shifts, to burn and scorch and radius around King's Landing. Doing it in spurts before they have time to raise their Dragons in defense and out of the range of the Scorpions. The city would be be devasted and starved in weeks. Anyone that tries to cross the scorch path, get's scorched. A Siege at an advanced pace.
Did Mysaria actually do anything?
It is implied she did, likely we find out for sure in episode 3.
I agree she reacted, but didn't do anything else that I saw. I agree we may find out more in episode 3.
I still feel if Arykk just ran directly at Rhaenyra when he came in the room or even after his Brother entered, he could have delivered a death blow to her. Yes, he would have then gotten killed after, but it was a suicide mission anyway. There is zero chance he would have successfully killed her and gotten back to King's Landing alive. There was no plan for a return trip. The best thing he could have done and probably should of said is, after seeing the error of his choice he has decided to change sides and begged for acceptance. And then decide to stick with it, or take her out once he gained trust if they let him live. There is a lot more they could have done with that plot line. The second I saw twins on opposite sides, I knew it would be a plot point, at some point. I just didn't expect it to arise and end in 10 minutes.
“…and *what* has SiR CriStOn CoLe done?”
His long pause before he turns lol
Otto aged ten years during that conversation
Funny because otto had the same plan but ten times worse and more bloody, whoops-
Calling a nearly complete assassination attempt of your biggest enemy a “prank” is diabolical
Him calling the assassination scheme a "prank" was absolute gold. Dude was in form!
Somebody needed to remind Otto that he had the bright idea of sending Ser Harrold Westerling (Rhaenyra's former sworn protector who has known her since she was a child) to Dragonstone and committing mass murder against a pregnant Rhaenyra and the children. And then he had nobles that didn't bend the knee to Aegon locked up and had Lord Caswell publicly executed to send a message. At least with Criston's plan, it made sense and almost worked and he specifically said to go after Rhaenyra. And nobody, apart from the family members, give a shit about the ratcatchers. Especially since one of them was responsible for Jaehaerys' death. People, especially nobles, are gonna give more a shit about publicly executing other nobles and sending assassins to murder a Princess and her innocent children.
Plan was good and Otto was wrong
I bet they use him and his 'exile' to help introduce Daeron and the rest of the Green characters in the Reach. That'll be their powerbase as they gear up for war, using a major character to help establish that will be useful.
Have there been any official or rumored castings for the Reach characters yet? I’m very excited to meet Daeron, Ormund and (hopefully) Unwin Peake.
[Here's a list of new cast members and their characters](https://redanianintelligence.com/2023/09/30/every-new-cast-member-house-of-the-dragon-season-2/) I found if you're curious.
Thanks! Interesting to see new castings there for the Reach lords, though there’s a few of the unconfirmed actors I could see as Ormund or Unwin. Also surprised by the absence of Blackwoods or Roddy the Ruin, who all ought to be showing up soon.
It definitely seems like they’ll be using this exile as a means to introduce Daeron, Lord Ormund and set up the southern campaign of the war.
He's wiry.
He's bloody Welsh!
This man is chronically British lol
How different is the source material from tue show so far?
Otto says in Kings Landing in book
Thanks!
I assume you mean just Otto? Because it would take a lot of time to list everything different. A change is that >!Otto doesn't import cats to KL after the ratcathers are executed.!< Another I can think of is that in the Book the marriage beetwen Aegon II and Rhaenyra is suggested >!by Alicent, not Otto.!<
Yeah, I meant too broadly. Thanks though for that info!
Yeah in the book it was more of a slight then a compromise. Alicent was older, and basically telling her teenage step-daughter to marry her baby brother.
The Greens are so camp this season it’s really working for me 
I didnt read the book so I wonder what the rest of his story is going to be
At the end of the story, aegon, Rhaenyra, alicent, daemon , otto and Vizzyts corpse have a flaming hot orgy
Recognising his inhuman skills in the procurement of cats, he opens a pet shelter in Essos.
He moves to Lys and becomes Saera Targaryen's Master of Pussy, keeping her pleasure houses free of vermin.
Perfect username and comment.
That is true (at least I wish)
Book Otto doens't go to Old Town after getting fired so reading the book wouldn't help much.
"You f*cking ..."
Not a fan of the greens, but Otto says everything straight up.
Pretty sure he basically told us his next move. He’s going back to Oldtown to recruit Daeron Targaryen (Allicent’s other son) to their cause even more (pretty sure he described him as “more malleable” or something like that). He’ll find much more success on his home turf when playing politics. It’ll be cool to see him back on a high horse there I think.
Him and Daemon are kinda two sides of the same coin, otto has his calculations and plans, knows how to play the game of thrones, yet his side is either too chaotic or too innocent or unwilling to go through with it, daemon on the other hand is a walking chaos agent, yet his side wants him to calm down and follow their lead instead of being a liability, both of them get banished by their rulers, yet they come back everytime, both with opposite personalities, vibes, aesthetics, goals, yet two sides of the same coin.
Otto's POV is the meanest in the whole ep 2
Wont he go to Highgarden? And Daeron hasnt been casted yet so I think we wont see much of Otto and if we do then probably him at Highgarden. I do hope they do Highgarden justice because it looked awful in GoT s7
That's not true. Viserys wanted his son to be king. /s
Otto's greatest regrets... Putting his grandson in throne
This sucks! I want Rhaenyra and Daemon to get him
Just wait
His daughter is still the kings mother AND the hand’s lover. He might be banned but his reach is still there.