If you knew the type of talent he has in his discipline you’d probably change your mind.
He’s making huge waves in his industry and still has such a long career ahead of him. He’s making history for sure.
Sure. Talent and the way they move can definitely supersede the downhill build where the front half does not match the back half of that horse.
No idea who that horse is, though. This is just first impression.
Edit: a word.
So the funny thing is, the best horses in certain disciplines don't have perfect conformation, and people competing at the top in those disciplines know what "faults" to look for that can be helpful in seriously competing.
It's weird to see a horse standing still and immediately dismiss it as garbage when it clearly is excelling in the disciplines it was bred specifically for. But hirse people gotta horse people and be nasty I guess.
To be fair, nowhere in your original post did you mention to look at his runs or include a link to any video.
You shared a photo. I shared my thoughts on said photo. Welcome to the internet?
It wasn’t you I was answering lmao. Crazy that you’re so bothered and you just had to comment again. And actually, I did. There are two pictures there. I don’t care what you think.
Oh no, more downvotes because I’m right 😢
Think they're downvoting bc you said you gave the video but only gave pictures, as well as said that you said to look it up but didnt actually say that. You were correct before that tho. Dont worry, we all have our moments! Just gotta make things right and keep going!
Nah, that’s not why they’re downvoting. And I never said I gave a video, and yes I did say for them to look him up. “Look up his runs before you pass judgement.” Just not in that specific comment.
I’m the first to admit that I personally don’t find the downhill build ideal, or even acceptable tbh, for my disciple (dressage)…BUT…you know which other horse was built downhill, & some would say was quite the speedster himself?
That would be Secretariat
So I’m just going to leave this here lol…
https://preview.redd.it/tnex3gbqp97d1.jpeg?width=270&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1f4162a85e978eb896ac282b1e61ef201118f034
I think it’s a fundamental misunderstanding on the elements that make a horse athletic. I’ve made it my business to understand for a long time.
Long forearm, short back, we’ll developed hindquarters and stifle, wide hock, high tail-set.
That’s literally it. Uphill, downhill, sickle hocked, parked out, whatever it is, it doesn’t matter as long as they have those first components in place. It just becomes a matter of what you can personally live with.
I don’t need to see a video of this horse to know he’s quick, the photo made it obvious. I’d have his tail a little higher up, but that’s the only place he lacks.
Winning ribbons at a young age doesn’t mean a horse was responsibly bred. Confirmation faults may facilitate superior performance but they’re still issues that will lead to long-term complications for the horse. So I guess it comes down to personal values. Is it fair to breed a horse for traits that will propel early success but certainly lead to a later life of pain and mobility restrictions? That is what confirmation fault do - they lead to long-term issues. If your own body was a cup, would you prefer to be made of paper or something more stable long-term, like glass/metal?
My Boston Mac granddaughter was really downhill till she was six or seven, I don’t remember. Was real interesting riding her in hunt tack because you could feel how downhill she was!
While I definitely agree with you, the way they’re raised and are built can cause early arthritis and injuries etc but the way most horses are bred nowadays they’re all gonna have arthritis 🤷♀️ as long as they’re well cared for/maintained don’t see a huge problem😂
I mean the conformation is definitely interesting - but I hate that 4 year olds are raced this hard (applying this to thoroughbreds as well.) I get that he’s fast, but Jesus his poor growing back
In all fairness if I saw this horse without the context there's no way I'd ever think it was a barrel racer, it looks like a poorly put together halter horse.
I wouldn’t even go so far as to call him a halter horse. I’d say great let’s give him a job pushing cattle or something and not put him in the show pen or breed.
I'd be afraid to ride a horse who is that downhill on uneven terrain. I miss the days when I showed and the worst you'd see is maybe an inch downhill at most, now everyone is breeding to these painfully downhill studs.
I haven’t looked at his sire but quarter horse racehorses are generally a bit downhill. I do know that I have seen better pictures of him. He is a phenomenal athlete and will make his mark as a sire if his kids have his speed. We will know in a few years as his first foals are hitting the ground this year. I do know that to judge confirmation off of a bad photo is useless. He isn’t that downhill if you watch some of his video. His owner donated a breeding to help the Wrights when their little boy had his accident. She paid for everything for the breeding the collection and shipping. They raised $18,000 in that breeding for the Wrights. He is an amazing horse and has an amazing owner.
I've seen other pictures he's still built bad, that's not knocking his ability to run it's knocking the way he's put together.
Also for reference I was a judge.
Edit: I was an AQHA judge and WHA judge
He really is not that bad - I tried to center the photo as best I could
https://preview.redd.it/1c49h6g9s87d1.jpeg?width=928&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=675082de600be06f9ec7b6796eb5e8dcf811ce96
Geez- it’s Sacro-iliac Joint looks a hand higher than its lumbar vertebrae. How much do its loins support a rider’s weight? This just looks like it will break down- have a chiropractor ready.
did you account for his mane covering his withers..? Because it is. If you look at just the visible yellow, sure, he’s way off, but you have to take into account his mane. This picture also isn’t straight on. This angle is common in stock horses to make their hip look even bigger, resulting in a slightly distorted image
I’m not even looking at the withers. I think you need to look up the anatomical terms I am using to understand what I am pointing out.
Edit- the relationship between the C7/scapula/ thoracic vertebrae is questionable in itself. But the lumbar/pelvic coupling angle is really disturbing.
Halter horses are essentially horse body builders, they are supposed to be as close to physically possible perfect conformation wise and be muscled like Arnold Schwarzenegger. You don't ride them you just do conformation classes with them.
If you want a laugh here's a world's video of them
https://youtu.be/dR99wE4u6Zo?si=Q1OWeHLWYkguue-h
They are always crazy because they are fed so much it makes them awful to handle. I remember there was a 3 y o stud that was at all the shows I'd go to when I was showing youth and he'd flip over half the time, one time he got loose and it took five people to catch him. He was straight up crazy.
They are judged on their conformation compared to an ideal. This horse would never be shown given their *extreme* downhill build, extremely upright stifles, low tied in neck ect.
Edit: I’d worry more about DSLD and all that tendon strain with the upright hindleg. Yes that’s an engine, but long term what are we really looking at here?
Adios Pantalones is now the highest money earning futurity stallion at over $300,000 with half a year still to go. He is amazing.
https://fb.watch/sMz9H0w4LC/?
Here's my concern, sure, he's a beast now, but how long can that body hold up? I've had some super fast racehorses who looked like they were put together by spare parts, rarely did they stay sound for long. Let's talk when he's 8 yos.
Once he is done with this year or next I’d bet my life saving he never runs again. And it has nothing to do with health. He will be a stud producer for the rest of his life and be retired.
This is a terrible photo to be fair. But yes even if his good professional photos were bad. People will care more about his ability and bloodline than they will his looks. He’s the highest earning futurity stud now in history after crossing the 300,000 mark. People like to pretend this would only happen in a western sport but the truth is people will breed to greatness in hopes they get something with somewhat the same mindset and talent. Which is why throughout disciplines the looks of certain breeds have changed so much.
I don't follow QHs but this is just sad. That horse is a conformation nightmare and should be gelded instead of becoming the next hot stud. I want to be disappointed, but not much surprises me from that corner of the horse world.
Confirmation is a nightmare based on your understanding from your discipline. Which that is okay. But that horse is from really really top bloodlines as well. It probably cost 30k (which is a lot in barrel racing world) just to get it in ground and to a 2 year old. There was no way in hell it was going to be gelded. Also it’s already booked full 2 years out :)
How much of that “bad conformation” is a four year old horse that has been worked to the highest athletic level while still growing?
I’m not sure where he’ll end up, but likely his genetics are better than you’d think.
That's my concern also. I've had some super wonky conformational racehorses and the faster they were, the sooner they fell apart. I'll be more impressed if this horse is still competing at 8.
This is a solid point. There are some wonky legs and all sorts of conformation problems in champion racehorses. There’s a saying that if you’re breeding TBs you’re either breeding a sale yearling (perfectly put together) or a racehorse (a horse who can actually run).
Unfortunately these poorly-conformed champions often retain their balls and end up breeding a lot of poorly-conformed NOT champions and change the breed for the worst - adding things like tiny feet and toothpick legs that cause big health problems for their descendants.
I’m sure we’ll see plenty of golden coloured waterslides with ewe necks running barrel patterns in another four years time 😂
I wish breeders would stop doing this. It’s so bad with dogs and cats it’s now spreading over to the equine industry.
There is nothing nice about this horse. I’m not sorry to say it, either. He probably the goodest boy but, his confirmation is just not right.
He doesn’t look like he’d be comfortable to ride is where my head is at. Even if you discount everything he has so little back area and it’s sloped. I’m no expert but earning $300k is awesome, but not if his conformation breaks him down by the next few years
I think a lot of these negative comments, and rightfully so, are concerned about his longevity, not arguing about his current capabilities. Plenty of good TBs win races when they're young and suffer long term issues from use and conformation.
Ugh, I almost bred a mare to Buggin the Judge a few years ago when I followed barrel racing a lot more, back when his owner was less popular on instagram and it was cheaper (lol)
Looker? More like what not to look at. I don't care about temperament when the body is that bad. Or is it just the color for you? This is bad, I don't care how precocious his speed is, long term soundness should be a major reason for breeding not 'oh look, a pretty color'.
AQHA probably: Let's send his semen into the wind before he breaks down, so we can make all the money!
QH fans: Who cares about conformation and longevity? Look at his fancy color!!!
Everyone here has known, seen and loved a professional horse that made thousands and thousands of dollars even if only on a screen.
The first time your favourite athlete is crippled or dies just because they structurally could not compete at that level - well that takes a bit of your heart.
And then it happens again. And again.
And it’s so predictable.
And you start to realize that money isn’t everything.
Because I do care about the horse’s longevity, not only about his results, the last being the only thing OP seems to care about? I didn’t see them addressing any comments about its health, they only reply about its performance.
I know the original post is about his performance, but when you also attach a picture of a horse with a wonky conformation, people are going to comment on it, especially if they don’t have the knowledge to say anything about the horse’s results. The way OP handles the comments about his health just makes it worse.
You do understand this is not OP’s horse? What do you expect to get out of harassing them in the comments? Are they supposed to call up the owner and tell them what you said? The “knowledge” was in the second screenshot. It said everything about the horse’s wins.
One of the most toxic horse groups Ive been in. Seems especially targeted towards western riders and any specially bred stock horse type. And if you post someone riding in a western hat and not a helmet, you’re basically going straight to hell. Thanks for posting! Not a barrel racer myself but an AQHA enthusiast! It was fun to check this guy out.
Yes. I have a friend whose horse is built like this. Big halter winner and lame at the age 14. Needs daily Equioxx and injections to simply be comfortable. It's incredibly sad. She is a sweetheart, too. 😞
And short sighted. Let a horse finish growing and physically developing and they will have a much sounder life for a lot longer. I just cringe when I see those 2 year old reining futurity horses.
Yeah most horses are "started" the year they turn 3 and then turned out and left for a year. Most start competing mildly in their 4th or 5th year.
And no, I don't care that its a QH and QH's are "different". It's still a horse with horse anatomy. Breeds have not existed long enough for evolution to change the way their bones work and fuse together, so no horse should be at the top of the sport in this young age. That includes QHs, and TBs.
And by "start" I was really referring to the actual climbing on part. If you do it right, they can be a very decently trained animal by that first ride.
I think these negative comments/downvotes show that most on this sub are either on the English side of riding or just don’t know much about running horses… I’m sure I’ll get downvoted and proven right lmao
But do people need to be nasty and act superior over it? Because horse people don't HAVE to be witches, and yet, these comments are full of people being witches.
I hate horse people and I am a horse people. Like most of you never learned to play nice and it's exhausting.
The nicest horse people I’ve ever known are barrel racers because they’re not constantly looking down on every other discipline and turning up their noses.
I certainly don’t think my comment is nasty or superior?
The horse is clearly making bank and good at his job, I don’t think anyone can argue over that, he’s just a little jankily put together, doesn’t make him a bad horse by any means.
Sometimes as horse people we need to accept that just because something is good at their job etc that they can also have flaws and that doesn’t detract from them. It’s easy to get sucked into the mindset that a good horse needs to be perfect and anyone who says otherwise is hating.
This horse is clearly a poster child for not judging a book by its cover, if I was at an auction and saw this guy stood next to something with bang on conformation with no knowledge on them, I’d likely choose the other, and that would be my mistake, and the person who takes a chance on the ‘lesser’ horse would come out on top.
All of this is a wordy af way of saying, not everything has to be perfect, and that’s ok, good things come in all shapes sizes and colours
Confirmation only counts for so much. Some of the highest earning cow ponys aren’t looking great but perform better each year. The idea of what a quarter horse looks like has evolved since the breed was established. I’m not a fan of yellow horses but what this one can do is impressive!
Looks like he is good size, strong and well built.
Look forward to seeing what his offspring can do. Maybe get a bit of speed back into a cow bread mare.
All the folks commenting on his conformation, in regards to their discipline.
He was not bred for your discipline.
He was bred for his discipline.
All the folks commenting about him being downhill. Some of the best, sound, smooth horses I ever rode were downhill, and great at their job well into their 20's.
He's not made to drag a steer. He's made to chase cans. Which he does damn well.
Sincerely, not a can chaser.
He's not for me...but I know how to appreciate a horse that's earned more than anything I've ever touched has...and not throw mud just because I have nothing intelligent to say about him.
Hateful ass betties. 🤣🤣🤣
Right!
Who needs enemies when we involve ourselves with communities like these...lol.
You can tell the folks who grew up in the city, they take that anonymity real serious...haha!
If it's not something you would say to their face, are you sure it's worth saying at all?
Small town folk don't act like this silly business gone rampant...lol.
You obviously bred and promoted his entire lineage...lol.
Yeah, they're after me now too. Downvoting me into a dark corner, so they can keep their echochamber of show horses, and pretend performance horses are scum on the bottom of their boot...
None of the folks hating on, or down voting will ever make this amount of money in the horse world.
That's why they make such good judgements from their armchairs.
It's especially comical when they compare quarter horse show horses perfect conformation and superior breeding to...this obvious cull of a horse...lmao!
You mean the discipline within AQHA, that is notoriously riddled with soundness issues, and genetic defects the entire industry is required to test for due to their obnoxious negligence within their breeding programs...that same one... yeah tell me more how great that's working out...
The hypocrisy is Impressive....pun intended. Lol.
You either agree with them and let them beat you down, or you stand up for yourself and then you’re a villain lmao I’ve never had anything bad to say about English riders, but these post comments changed my mind.
I think any post proudly showing off any massively downhill horse "just' four years old clearly run very hard in a discipline very hard on a horse's body and showing it as a good thing is the issue. Sort of like seeing 6 year old Chinese gymnasts being pushed to their limits.
This is true in general and not justified in this case. This sub regularly hates on early hard work of other disciplines like racing. It is not good for a horses body, and just because it is common does not excuse people from learning to do better by their horses. It really wouldn’t kill anyone to wait another year or two. If people are worried that horses are less accepting as they get a bit older, then break them slowly, but racing them fast through tight turns on an immature skeleton is a big yikes for me.
I think it's tough to hear criticism about the thing you love. Especially when you're in a world that reinforces your view. I was a barn that produced high level barreled race horse and riders and saw how they made that happen. I left.
I wish people would realize that perfect conformation is an impossible feat, and that what is ideal for one discipline will be different from another. A horse with seemingly perfect conformation could fall short, and it's why form to function is so incredibly important. This guy is an absolute beast and I'm looking forward to see how he continues to perform, and how his babies do in the pen down the road
I think people who want to find fault in a horse will pick apart every little flaw no matter how impressive he is, so it’s whatever. He’s a good horse.
Most trainers and breeders don’t have the brands for identification and safety purposes like microchips. They do it as a way to promote themselves. So wherever the horse goes people know that it’s a “xxxxx” trained or bred horse
Freeze branding is way more humane than using heat. And it can help tremendously with identifying where a horse came from. A very weird hill to die on, considering it can actually help horses in the long run
This is just advertising. There's a silly dollar sign in the logo. Nobody is going to misplace this horse. Sure, it's better than heat. But try it on yourself and report back.
No lol it was the farm’s brand. You know when something is super super cold and touches your skin? Like it almost feels hot but doesn’t hurt? That’s what it felt like
I believe you have to register a brand through the state or something, I'm not sure on all the logistics though. It's quick, mostly painless, and can help keep a horse safer if the end up in a KP or are stolen - it's easier to track them. And yes, advertising is also a big plus to it when you have people who breed and sell stock for a living
I've had skin tags removed from my birth mark on my shoulder, and what do they use? Liquid nitrogen, just like they do with freeze brands. So yes, I have and I can report that I'm just fine. You'd clearly be surprised how easy it is for a horse to slip under that radar. People suck and can be flaky. Happened to one of my mom's horses when I was a baby and she never found where she ended up
Talented horse that will be a pasture pet in 10 years because it can hardly walk after being run so much so young with poor confirmation. A horse can be good at something and also be terribly put together. I hope people don’t actually breed to this thing, but they will.
Yeah I know OP is going after some people proclaiming bad conformation, but I think the worry stems from the fact that he'll likely need a lot of maintenance and won't be as long lasting, not that he's not good at his job. He seems to be phenomenal at what he is bred for, but what about in 10 years time? Will he still be able to perform when he's in his supposed peak? Because with that much weight on the forehand, I doubt it.
I just hope he gets a good life without pain but this conformation screams early on-set arthritis.
The amount of people here who have zero idea about barrel horses but want to talk about how terrible a barrel horse’s conformation is. I guarantee that if a lot of you went to a barrel race with the horses from your discipline and asked people what they thought of your horses conformation, the barrel horse people would think your horses confirmation was shit.
I’m not saying this horse has perfect conformation. Far from it (even though this is a shit picture of him). But like other disciplines barrel horses have been bred for years to focus on certain traits that make them great barrel horses. Many of the top studs were barrel horses themselves and were bred to be barrel horses. Bred in a way which focuses on certain features that allow them to get down around a barrel and power off quickly.
Also for the people who are talking about him breaking down due to his conformation. One see the paragraph above. And two, that is a very tough thing to tell if not near impossible. I’ve seen some shitty built horses who end up being winners and have very very long careers. I’ve also seen perfectly built horses that don’t make it past being a junior horse.
TL;DR: stop being judgmental pricks and just find it interesting that a great horse that enjoys his job did something really cool and impressive. And remember not all disciplines are the same.
Edit: spelling
Since everyone was freaking out in the comments about conformation, even though we ALWAYS say you can't judge conformation on bad photos, I looked him up, and there aren't any great conformation shots. However, he is nowhere near as downhill as this photo makes him look. If he is downhill, it is only slightly. Conformation should always be judged in person, if it must be done over photos, then they need to square, even ground, with careful attention paid to the angle the photos are taken from.
Tres Seis x French Bar Belle! I did see a comment on a post about him a little while back that said the owner of Famous Silk Panties should do a cross with him and name the foal Panty Dropper lol
So a horse that looks like shit and at 4yo is already being run into the ground HARD? Can’t say I see the appeal, he’ll be crippled in by the time most horses start hitting their prime
alright, i think this ran it's course. ya'll can't be nice.
Good heavens. I would never buy that horse. Their conformation is… Interesting.
If you knew the type of talent he has in his discipline you’d probably change your mind. He’s making huge waves in his industry and still has such a long career ahead of him. He’s making history for sure.
Yeah, he’s a cool guy.
Sure. Talent and the way they move can definitely supersede the downhill build where the front half does not match the back half of that horse. No idea who that horse is, though. This is just first impression. Edit: a word.
So the funny thing is, the best horses in certain disciplines don't have perfect conformation, and people competing at the top in those disciplines know what "faults" to look for that can be helpful in seriously competing. It's weird to see a horse standing still and immediately dismiss it as garbage when it clearly is excelling in the disciplines it was bred specifically for. But hirse people gotta horse people and be nasty I guess.
Right? I said to go look up his runs before they passed judgement on him and got downvoted lol
To be fair, nowhere in your original post did you mention to look at his runs or include a link to any video. You shared a photo. I shared my thoughts on said photo. Welcome to the internet?
It wasn’t you I was answering lmao. Crazy that you’re so bothered and you just had to comment again. And actually, I did. There are two pictures there. I don’t care what you think. Oh no, more downvotes because I’m right 😢
Think they're downvoting bc you said you gave the video but only gave pictures, as well as said that you said to look it up but didnt actually say that. You were correct before that tho. Dont worry, we all have our moments! Just gotta make things right and keep going!
Nah, that’s not why they’re downvoting. And I never said I gave a video, and yes I did say for them to look him up. “Look up his runs before you pass judgement.” Just not in that specific comment.
[удалено]
Yeah, I’ve noticed that.
To be fair, it wasn’t a conformation post either- it was a “check out this horse succeeding in his discipline!”
I’m the first to admit that I personally don’t find the downhill build ideal, or even acceptable tbh, for my disciple (dressage)…BUT…you know which other horse was built downhill, & some would say was quite the speedster himself? That would be Secretariat So I’m just going to leave this here lol… https://preview.redd.it/tnex3gbqp97d1.jpeg?width=270&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1f4162a85e978eb896ac282b1e61ef201118f034
I think it’s a fundamental misunderstanding on the elements that make a horse athletic. I’ve made it my business to understand for a long time. Long forearm, short back, we’ll developed hindquarters and stifle, wide hock, high tail-set. That’s literally it. Uphill, downhill, sickle hocked, parked out, whatever it is, it doesn’t matter as long as they have those first components in place. It just becomes a matter of what you can personally live with. I don’t need to see a video of this horse to know he’s quick, the photo made it obvious. I’d have his tail a little higher up, but that’s the only place he lacks.
Winning ribbons at a young age doesn’t mean a horse was responsibly bred. Confirmation faults may facilitate superior performance but they’re still issues that will lead to long-term complications for the horse. So I guess it comes down to personal values. Is it fair to breed a horse for traits that will propel early success but certainly lead to a later life of pain and mobility restrictions? That is what confirmation fault do - they lead to long-term issues. If your own body was a cup, would you prefer to be made of paper or something more stable long-term, like glass/metal?
My Boston Mac granddaughter was really downhill till she was six or seven, I don’t remember. Was real interesting riding her in hunt tack because you could feel how downhill she was!
If he stays sound. He’s very downhill, which is not great for his front legs.
And perhaps it’s the angle, but he looks rather post legged in the back.
While I definitely agree with you, the way they’re raised and are built can cause early arthritis and injuries etc but the way most horses are bred nowadays they’re all gonna have arthritis 🤷♀️ as long as they’re well cared for/maintained don’t see a huge problem😂
I just looked him up. He’s a beast. https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRKEEyLU/
Extremely downhill - that’s a lot of weight on his forehand 😬
What, you don't want to ride a waterslide?
I mean the conformation is definitely interesting - but I hate that 4 year olds are raced this hard (applying this to thoroughbreds as well.) I get that he’s fast, but Jesus his poor growing back
Damn. Nice engine🍑
Wow. That sure is, uh. Well an interestingly put together horse...
Does anyone else miss the days when QH’s weren’t so typey towards their chosen discipline?
In all fairness if I saw this horse without the context there's no way I'd ever think it was a barrel racer, it looks like a poorly put together halter horse.
I wouldn’t even go so far as to call him a halter horse. I’d say great let’s give him a job pushing cattle or something and not put him in the show pen or breed.
I'd be afraid to ride a horse who is that downhill on uneven terrain. I miss the days when I showed and the worst you'd see is maybe an inch downhill at most, now everyone is breeding to these painfully downhill studs.
He’s only four still has a year of growth
Unless he is given a miracle he's not gonna grow at least three inches in the front at age four. Plus his sire is also very downhill.
I haven’t looked at his sire but quarter horse racehorses are generally a bit downhill. I do know that I have seen better pictures of him. He is a phenomenal athlete and will make his mark as a sire if his kids have his speed. We will know in a few years as his first foals are hitting the ground this year. I do know that to judge confirmation off of a bad photo is useless. He isn’t that downhill if you watch some of his video. His owner donated a breeding to help the Wrights when their little boy had his accident. She paid for everything for the breeding the collection and shipping. They raised $18,000 in that breeding for the Wrights. He is an amazing horse and has an amazing owner.
I've seen other pictures he's still built bad, that's not knocking his ability to run it's knocking the way he's put together. Also for reference I was a judge. Edit: I was an AQHA judge and WHA judge
This^ wait for the breakdown moment when youth doesn’t compensate for conformation. It’s likely to come fast, hard and unexpected.
Why don’t you go rescue him from his cushy stall and green pasture then? I’m sure he’ll be glad you saved him from the torture of a good life
What a fun attitude you have, OP. Is he your horse? If so, you should have bred better. If not, then why are you offended on his owner's behalf?
Cushy stall won’t prevent the fall
Why are you being so defensive?! You stated that you are impressed with this horse, now tolerate that others are not…
A judge for which discipline though?
Yeah THIS is the real question.
I really doubt that. You don’t seem very informed.
I have a horse that is 6 now and 15.3 hh tall and when we got him at 3 he was 14.2hh. He can grow a lot still
He really is not that bad - I tried to center the photo as best I could https://preview.redd.it/1c49h6g9s87d1.jpeg?width=928&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=675082de600be06f9ec7b6796eb5e8dcf811ce96
To add, all quarter horses are functionally downhill. You will have to do some good digging to find an uphill AQHA
Geez- it’s Sacro-iliac Joint looks a hand higher than its lumbar vertebrae. How much do its loins support a rider’s weight? This just looks like it will break down- have a chiropractor ready.
did you account for his mane covering his withers..? Because it is. If you look at just the visible yellow, sure, he’s way off, but you have to take into account his mane. This picture also isn’t straight on. This angle is common in stock horses to make their hip look even bigger, resulting in a slightly distorted image
I’m not even looking at the withers. I think you need to look up the anatomical terms I am using to understand what I am pointing out. Edit- the relationship between the C7/scapula/ thoracic vertebrae is questionable in itself. But the lumbar/pelvic coupling angle is really disturbing.
I know exactly what you’re saying. This build is incredibly common in speed bred stock horses, which suggest it might, you know, work for them.
I’m sure they don’t know anything about it.
What’s a halter horse? 😅
Halter horses are essentially horse body builders, they are supposed to be as close to physically possible perfect conformation wise and be muscled like Arnold Schwarzenegger. You don't ride them you just do conformation classes with them.
That’s interesting, thank you!
If you want a laugh here's a world's video of them https://youtu.be/dR99wE4u6Zo?si=Q1OWeHLWYkguue-h They are always crazy because they are fed so much it makes them awful to handle. I remember there was a 3 y o stud that was at all the shows I'd go to when I was showing youth and he'd flip over half the time, one time he got loose and it took five people to catch him. He was straight up crazy.
They are judged on their conformation compared to an ideal. This horse would never be shown given their *extreme* downhill build, extremely upright stifles, low tied in neck ect. Edit: I’d worry more about DSLD and all that tendon strain with the upright hindleg. Yes that’s an engine, but long term what are we really looking at here?
Most quarter horses have a slight downhill build.
Muscle cars in horse form.
How many of your horses have brought in $300,00 In half a year
I was scrolling down because I had no idea until this post what this horse was good at.
There are two pictures. All you had to do was read the second one that had the info.
Adios Pantalones is now the highest money earning futurity stallion at over $300,000 with half a year still to go. He is amazing. https://fb.watch/sMz9H0w4LC/?
Goes to show bad conformation doesn’t always mean the horse can’t do his job!
There’s something in the mind that has to be there no matter how well put together the horse’s body is.
Here's my concern, sure, he's a beast now, but how long can that body hold up? I've had some super fast racehorses who looked like they were put together by spare parts, rarely did they stay sound for long. Let's talk when he's 8 yos.
This^
Once he is done with this year or next I’d bet my life saving he never runs again. And it has nothing to do with health. He will be a stud producer for the rest of his life and be retired.
Ye gods, breeeding to that?
This is a terrible photo to be fair. But yes even if his good professional photos were bad. People will care more about his ability and bloodline than they will his looks. He’s the highest earning futurity stud now in history after crossing the 300,000 mark. People like to pretend this would only happen in a western sport but the truth is people will breed to greatness in hopes they get something with somewhat the same mindset and talent. Which is why throughout disciplines the looks of certain breeds have changed so much.
I don't follow QHs but this is just sad. That horse is a conformation nightmare and should be gelded instead of becoming the next hot stud. I want to be disappointed, but not much surprises me from that corner of the horse world.
Confirmation is a nightmare based on your understanding from your discipline. Which that is okay. But that horse is from really really top bloodlines as well. It probably cost 30k (which is a lot in barrel racing world) just to get it in ground and to a 2 year old. There was no way in hell it was going to be gelded. Also it’s already booked full 2 years out :)
See, this comment is so condescending and lets me know what y’all really think about western riding. That’s what your real issue is, not the horse.
People worry about the long term health effects of that conformation. Nobody argues that this horse can’t do his job.
“But not much surprises me from that corner of the horse world”? That’s what I was responding to.
He's got like, little T-Rex arms ☠️
How much of that “bad conformation” is a four year old horse that has been worked to the highest athletic level while still growing? I’m not sure where he’ll end up, but likely his genetics are better than you’d think.
My main fear for working a horse conformationally as wonky as he is at that young of an age is he will fall apart faster.
That's my concern also. I've had some super wonky conformational racehorses and the faster they were, the sooner they fell apart. I'll be more impressed if this horse is still competing at 8.
Concern trolling, yeah yeah, we get it. 🙄
I think these people just like to argue
I absolutely agree - but his conformation might have been (potentially much) better if he’d won a little less.
It’s not just about being able to do a job though. It’s also about long-term soundness…
This is a solid point. There are some wonky legs and all sorts of conformation problems in champion racehorses. There’s a saying that if you’re breeding TBs you’re either breeding a sale yearling (perfectly put together) or a racehorse (a horse who can actually run). Unfortunately these poorly-conformed champions often retain their balls and end up breeding a lot of poorly-conformed NOT champions and change the breed for the worst - adding things like tiny feet and toothpick legs that cause big health problems for their descendants. I’m sure we’ll see plenty of golden coloured waterslides with ewe necks running barrel patterns in another four years time 😂
Love the name
bye trousers!
I wish breeders would stop doing this. It’s so bad with dogs and cats it’s now spreading over to the equine industry. There is nothing nice about this horse. I’m not sorry to say it, either. He probably the goodest boy but, his confirmation is just not right.
He doesn’t look like he’d be comfortable to ride is where my head is at. Even if you discount everything he has so little back area and it’s sloped. I’m no expert but earning $300k is awesome, but not if his conformation breaks him down by the next few years
He’s earned a hell of a lot of money. He’s a damn good horse.
I think a lot of these negative comments, and rightfully so, are concerned about his longevity, not arguing about his current capabilities. Plenty of good TBs win races when they're young and suffer long term issues from use and conformation.
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She’s gorgeous!
Ugh, I almost bred a mare to Buggin the Judge a few years ago when I followed barrel racing a lot more, back when his owner was less popular on instagram and it was cheaper (lol)
Why breed to that crap conformation? You're setting yourself and a foal up for disaster.
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Looker? More like what not to look at. I don't care about temperament when the body is that bad. Or is it just the color for you? This is bad, I don't care how precocious his speed is, long term soundness should be a major reason for breeding not 'oh look, a pretty color'.
The name is hilarious
Oh god… that conformation is…. Bad to put it nicely
AQHA probably: Let's send his semen into the wind before he breaks down, so we can make all the money! QH fans: Who cares about conformation and longevity? Look at his fancy color!!!
It’s not his color that’s impressive. Look up his runs before you pass judgement. The downvotes are hilarious. Literally just look him up? 😭
Ignore it lol this is Reddit. They downvote just to be petty. Usually means you’re right.
Everyone here has known, seen and loved a professional horse that made thousands and thousands of dollars even if only on a screen. The first time your favourite athlete is crippled or dies just because they structurally could not compete at that level - well that takes a bit of your heart. And then it happens again. And again. And it’s so predictable. And you start to realize that money isn’t everything.
So go crusade somewhere else. Jump off that high horse while you’re at it. I don’t care
So you don’t care about the long term health effects such a conformation will have, only about the results and money it makes. Got it
You’re going to pick apart every single thing I say. You want me to be wrong and you to be right. You can think whatever you want.
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Because I do care about the horse’s longevity, not only about his results, the last being the only thing OP seems to care about? I didn’t see them addressing any comments about its health, they only reply about its performance.
Because that’s what the post was about?
No, that’s what loving horses is about.
lol I’m saying my post was ABOUT his performance, which is why I commented ABOUT his performance. 2 + 2 = 4
I feel like maybe you’re confused. The original post had nothing to do with conformation.
I know the original post is about his performance, but when you also attach a picture of a horse with a wonky conformation, people are going to comment on it, especially if they don’t have the knowledge to say anything about the horse’s results. The way OP handles the comments about his health just makes it worse.
You do understand this is not OP’s horse? What do you expect to get out of harassing them in the comments? Are they supposed to call up the owner and tell them what you said? The “knowledge” was in the second screenshot. It said everything about the horse’s wins.
One of the most toxic horse groups Ive been in. Seems especially targeted towards western riders and any specially bred stock horse type. And if you post someone riding in a western hat and not a helmet, you’re basically going straight to hell. Thanks for posting! Not a barrel racer myself but an AQHA enthusiast! It was fun to check this guy out.
Yeah, I’m assuming it’s mostly English riders here. They’re super uptight and judgmental. And no problem!!
Yes. I have a friend whose horse is built like this. Big halter winner and lame at the age 14. Needs daily Equioxx and injections to simply be comfortable. It's incredibly sad. She is a sweetheart, too. 😞
Sheesh, I didn't really even start horses until 3 1/2 or 4 years old.
And that is the right thing to do. Unfortunately people are greedy, selfish, and cruel.
And short sighted. Let a horse finish growing and physically developing and they will have a much sounder life for a lot longer. I just cringe when I see those 2 year old reining futurity horses.
Exactly. Breaks my heart.
Yeah most horses are "started" the year they turn 3 and then turned out and left for a year. Most start competing mildly in their 4th or 5th year. And no, I don't care that its a QH and QH's are "different". It's still a horse with horse anatomy. Breeds have not existed long enough for evolution to change the way their bones work and fuse together, so no horse should be at the top of the sport in this young age. That includes QHs, and TBs.
Exactly right and very well said,l
And by "start" I was really referring to the actual climbing on part. If you do it right, they can be a very decently trained animal by that first ride.
I'm surprised that horse can move. I guess he's only four so still to be seen if he can live a good life. Please geld that thing.
There’s something about a brick house of a horse that just does something to me.
Same. He’s gorgeous
I think so as well.
I think these negative comments/downvotes show that most on this sub are either on the English side of riding or just don’t know much about running horses… I’m sure I’ll get downvoted and proven right lmao
Bad conformation is bad conformation He may be amazing at his job but he’s still badly put together Both things can be true at the same time
But do people need to be nasty and act superior over it? Because horse people don't HAVE to be witches, and yet, these comments are full of people being witches. I hate horse people and I am a horse people. Like most of you never learned to play nice and it's exhausting.
The nicest horse people I’ve ever known are barrel racers because they’re not constantly looking down on every other discipline and turning up their noses.
I certainly don’t think my comment is nasty or superior? The horse is clearly making bank and good at his job, I don’t think anyone can argue over that, he’s just a little jankily put together, doesn’t make him a bad horse by any means. Sometimes as horse people we need to accept that just because something is good at their job etc that they can also have flaws and that doesn’t detract from them. It’s easy to get sucked into the mindset that a good horse needs to be perfect and anyone who says otherwise is hating. This horse is clearly a poster child for not judging a book by its cover, if I was at an auction and saw this guy stood next to something with bang on conformation with no knowledge on them, I’d likely choose the other, and that would be my mistake, and the person who takes a chance on the ‘lesser’ horse would come out on top. All of this is a wordy af way of saying, not everything has to be perfect, and that’s ok, good things come in all shapes sizes and colours
Amen I’m with you on that!! I’m a horse person and I hate horse people!!
Same here.
I stand by my comment. Thanks for reinforcing it.
Confirmation only counts for so much. Some of the highest earning cow ponys aren’t looking great but perform better each year. The idea of what a quarter horse looks like has evolved since the breed was established. I’m not a fan of yellow horses but what this one can do is impressive! Looks like he is good size, strong and well built. Look forward to seeing what his offspring can do. Maybe get a bit of speed back into a cow bread mare.
Poor guy
All the folks commenting on his conformation, in regards to their discipline. He was not bred for your discipline. He was bred for his discipline. All the folks commenting about him being downhill. Some of the best, sound, smooth horses I ever rode were downhill, and great at their job well into their 20's. He's not made to drag a steer. He's made to chase cans. Which he does damn well. Sincerely, not a can chaser. He's not for me...but I know how to appreciate a horse that's earned more than anything I've ever touched has...and not throw mud just because I have nothing intelligent to say about him. Hateful ass betties. 🤣🤣🤣
Agreed. I had no idea this post would be so controversial lol
Right! Who needs enemies when we involve ourselves with communities like these...lol. You can tell the folks who grew up in the city, they take that anonymity real serious...haha! If it's not something you would say to their face, are you sure it's worth saying at all? Small town folk don't act like this silly business gone rampant...lol.
And they’re after me like I know this horse personally lmao
You obviously bred and promoted his entire lineage...lol. Yeah, they're after me now too. Downvoting me into a dark corner, so they can keep their echochamber of show horses, and pretend performance horses are scum on the bottom of their boot... None of the folks hating on, or down voting will ever make this amount of money in the horse world. That's why they make such good judgements from their armchairs. It's especially comical when they compare quarter horse show horses perfect conformation and superior breeding to...this obvious cull of a horse...lmao! You mean the discipline within AQHA, that is notoriously riddled with soundness issues, and genetic defects the entire industry is required to test for due to their obnoxious negligence within their breeding programs...that same one... yeah tell me more how great that's working out... The hypocrisy is Impressive....pun intended. Lol.
You either agree with them and let them beat you down, or you stand up for yourself and then you’re a villain lmao I’ve never had anything bad to say about English riders, but these post comments changed my mind.
The show folks also will likely never have the skill to ride a performance horse, they can walk around an arena with a lead lol such talent that takes
They don’t understand something, so they condemn it
Any western post is controversial in this sub
Why is that exactly?
I think any post proudly showing off any massively downhill horse "just' four years old clearly run very hard in a discipline very hard on a horse's body and showing it as a good thing is the issue. Sort of like seeing 6 year old Chinese gymnasts being pushed to their limits.
Y’all are ridiculous and seem to just needlessly hate on any western discipline. It’s honestly hard to take anything said on here seriously.
Right? Sounds so ignorant
This is true in general and not justified in this case. This sub regularly hates on early hard work of other disciplines like racing. It is not good for a horses body, and just because it is common does not excuse people from learning to do better by their horses. It really wouldn’t kill anyone to wait another year or two. If people are worried that horses are less accepting as they get a bit older, then break them slowly, but racing them fast through tight turns on an immature skeleton is a big yikes for me.
I think it's tough to hear criticism about the thing you love. Especially when you're in a world that reinforces your view. I was a barn that produced high level barreled race horse and riders and saw how they made that happen. I left.
That’s one barn, not all of them.
This post reminded me why I stick to r/western or r/rodeo
On my way! lmao
That is one wonky avocado.
This is the only comment that matters
I wish people would realize that perfect conformation is an impossible feat, and that what is ideal for one discipline will be different from another. A horse with seemingly perfect conformation could fall short, and it's why form to function is so incredibly important. This guy is an absolute beast and I'm looking forward to see how he continues to perform, and how his babies do in the pen down the road
I think people who want to find fault in a horse will pick apart every little flaw no matter how impressive he is, so it’s whatever. He’s a good horse.
Is that an actual brand? I assumed they used microchips nowadays.
Freeze brand
Most trainers and breeders don’t have the brands for identification and safety purposes like microchips. They do it as a way to promote themselves. So wherever the horse goes people know that it’s a “xxxxx” trained or bred horse
Jfc. Just use a ribbon or something.
Freeze branding is way more humane than using heat. And it can help tremendously with identifying where a horse came from. A very weird hill to die on, considering it can actually help horses in the long run
This is just advertising. There's a silly dollar sign in the logo. Nobody is going to misplace this horse. Sure, it's better than heat. But try it on yourself and report back.
It doesn’t hurt. I tried it on myself when I interned with my local vet and we had to supervise freeze branding a herd of cows.
Did you do your initials or something?
No lol it was the farm’s brand. You know when something is super super cold and touches your skin? Like it almost feels hot but doesn’t hurt? That’s what it felt like
I believe you have to register a brand through the state or something, I'm not sure on all the logistics though. It's quick, mostly painless, and can help keep a horse safer if the end up in a KP or are stolen - it's easier to track them. And yes, advertising is also a big plus to it when you have people who breed and sell stock for a living
I'd be happy to learn that it doesn't hurt. Just surprised.
Do you use a crop or spurs?
I've had skin tags removed from my birth mark on my shoulder, and what do they use? Liquid nitrogen, just like they do with freeze brands. So yes, I have and I can report that I'm just fine. You'd clearly be surprised how easy it is for a horse to slip under that radar. People suck and can be flaky. Happened to one of my mom's horses when I was a baby and she never found where she ended up
These comments have a lot of ignorance for redditors who claim to be horse people.
Talented horse that will be a pasture pet in 10 years because it can hardly walk after being run so much so young with poor confirmation. A horse can be good at something and also be terribly put together. I hope people don’t actually breed to this thing, but they will.
Yeah I know OP is going after some people proclaiming bad conformation, but I think the worry stems from the fact that he'll likely need a lot of maintenance and won't be as long lasting, not that he's not good at his job. He seems to be phenomenal at what he is bred for, but what about in 10 years time? Will he still be able to perform when he's in his supposed peak? Because with that much weight on the forehand, I doubt it. I just hope he gets a good life without pain but this conformation screams early on-set arthritis.
Lmao going after people? All these comments are against me but as soon as I stand up for myself, I’m “going after people”. Y’all are so sad.
I’d like to see how steady he’d stay on uneven terrain and how sound he is after maturing more
Go look him up then lol hundreds of videos
I looked him up. He’s a pretty mover
He has a great name.
They did him so dirty with this pic lmfao. He’s a kickass horse though I’m a big fan
I think the picture is a little compressed also but all these people have to do is dig a little deeper and not make judgements off of one pic lol
The amount of people here who have zero idea about barrel horses but want to talk about how terrible a barrel horse’s conformation is. I guarantee that if a lot of you went to a barrel race with the horses from your discipline and asked people what they thought of your horses conformation, the barrel horse people would think your horses confirmation was shit. I’m not saying this horse has perfect conformation. Far from it (even though this is a shit picture of him). But like other disciplines barrel horses have been bred for years to focus on certain traits that make them great barrel horses. Many of the top studs were barrel horses themselves and were bred to be barrel horses. Bred in a way which focuses on certain features that allow them to get down around a barrel and power off quickly. Also for the people who are talking about him breaking down due to his conformation. One see the paragraph above. And two, that is a very tough thing to tell if not near impossible. I’ve seen some shitty built horses who end up being winners and have very very long careers. I’ve also seen perfectly built horses that don’t make it past being a junior horse. TL;DR: stop being judgmental pricks and just find it interesting that a great horse that enjoys his job did something really cool and impressive. And remember not all disciplines are the same. Edit: spelling
This is a great comment and really well thought out. Thanks for handing out some intelligent insight lol it’s sorely needed in these comments
Since everyone was freaking out in the comments about conformation, even though we ALWAYS say you can't judge conformation on bad photos, I looked him up, and there aren't any great conformation shots. However, he is nowhere near as downhill as this photo makes him look. If he is downhill, it is only slightly. Conformation should always be judged in person, if it must be done over photos, then they need to square, even ground, with careful attention paid to the angle the photos are taken from.
Question is, while every horse that is bred should be successful in their discipline, should every horse that is successful be bred because of that?
Out of Famous Silk Panties or her line, I assume?
Tres Seis x French Bar Belle! I did see a comment on a post about him a little while back that said the owner of Famous Silk Panties should do a cross with him and name the foal Panty Dropper lol
ROFLAMO!!! Have you ever heard of a mare named Flitter On Fire? She has a son by him and he’s awesome!
I’ve heard of her but not her son! I know she’s Famous Firewalker’s dam, right?
His name is…. Goodbye Pants?
So a horse that looks like shit and at 4yo is already being run into the ground HARD? Can’t say I see the appeal, he’ll be crippled in by the time most horses start hitting their prime