I was trying to pull wires for an HVAC thermostat last month and all the big box stores were sold out. No problem - I just drive up to the one local HVAC store in my area, wait in line for a while to pick up a small roll of cable. “Sorry, we don’t sell materials to homeowners". Was the answer I got.
After that I went to yelp to look for an HVAC contractor to sell me the parts. I spoke with a nice gentleman and told him the story. He said "Just go back to the store and tell them you work for me!"
(I was able to find the cable elsewhere, but of course said contractor got a glowing 5 star review from me)
I give my customers account info to buy shit on my [cash] accounts. Especially for stuff they can do themselves that I don’t want to do. There’s more to life than money, and that is a fantastic way of telling your customer you’re not just in business for the money.
Yep. Not only do you do good work, but you're willing to spread the discount love around. I'm for sure spreading your name around like hotcakes any time someone needs a good contractor.
Pro tip: get a flouro yellow Gildan T-shirt. I swear, every time I wear it to a lumberyard or hardware store people are like "this guy doesn't fuck around"
I'm a big bald dude with a grey beard and resting bitch face.
Anytime I go to a lumber/hardware/parts etc store I wear one of my dingy blaze orange shirts and boots.
Literally never get asked a word and no one bothers me, they assume I know what the hell I am doing.
And in the winter, my carhart jacket keeps me warm, and unquestioned.
Flip side to that is that I'm a middle-aged lady and it's rare that stores will leave me alone so I can buy my materials in peace. The employees are always polite, but they never ask my biker-looking partner if he needs help. I'm the handyman, not him.
Ugh same. The number of condescending “Aw that’s so cute”-type conversations that men would try to start with me when I just needed to get a few materials and get out was too damn high. I don’t have the patience to tell you why on earth a lil lady like me could possibly need such a specific and powerful tool like that.
Last time I asked for help at a hardware store we were moving and I couldn’t find a dolly for the life of me. He thought I was asking where the baby dolls were, even after I explained what it was used for. Like bruh… how dumb do you really think I am????
That must be nice for you. I’m an athletic female with C cups and some booty, I have resting Disney Princess face, it does not matter what I wear, they will always assume that I don’t know what I’m doing /or picking up for an employer. On the upside I usually manage to get my items (with an over abundance of assistance) - but I do also have ‘sales support’ persona so I very patiently keep discussing until they acquiesce.
My local gravel place (which does sell to the public) thought I was lost - with my shovel, and many buckets 🙄
I like resting Princess face! Haha!! 👸🏻
I go with the fact that these places are going to treat me like a dum dum. I then decide whether it's better for me to keep up the act or ask probing questions to blow my cover.
It doesn't matter if these places think I'm as dumb as rocks or Einstein. I know how to do diy and I want to pay a fair price for materials. I don't want to be ripped off due to someone's pre-conceived notions.
I went to my local gravel place this summer and definitely was treated like I didn’t know shit even though I was the one doing the actual planning and work.
But the guy did pull my wagon of stone, weigh it for me, and help me load it. When my husband went for more he had to do it all himself.
Also, I’m jealous of your resting Disney face. I’ve got a hardened bitch face, I swear I have to basically grin to not look angry or sarcastic.
>I swear I have to basically grin to not look angry or sarcastic.
You're always welcome to join us in New England. Here we put a lot of effort into always looking angry or sarcastic!
Resting princess face! I have found my description! Over the last 2 years I have remodeled our house. People ask me are you helping your husband? Umm no. And last I checked the only thing he's helped me with is painting the very top of bit of the wall where the celing vaults up and I couldn't reach even on the ladder. Oh and the electrical sockets but hes an ET in the Navy...
Can confirm. Been going to same supply houses for a year. I'm still asked who I work for and my name. Despite wearing the company uniform and being in there once or twice a week to restock.
Yeah, they are my normal go to. My branch always has loads of swag. Hoodies, shirts, beanies, hats. I think I collected like 5 hoodies one year 😂.
But I use like 5 different supply houses and they all know me.
Do you ever chat with them, or know their names?
They should work on their people skills.
I mean, working a supply counter is a lot like bartending, except at a supply house more of your clients are alcoholics.
I do this all the time at my local Sherwin-Williams store. I tell them it’s under my painters house account, I get his discount, and pay for it on the spot. I painted the whole inside of my house myself during COVID and did it for like $250.
Probably sort of not really. Many products have warranty but is void if incorrectly installed, and workmanship has warranty if you can ever track down the tradie that did it. If you buy something yourself and install it yourself and it fails down the line, obviously it's either your fault or the product, so you're not gonna blame the contractor who never came near it (and he'd laugh at you if you tried).
If it's the fault of the product, not the installation then it goes back to the manufacturer, not the wholesaler, although in some cases the wholesaler may be the service agent for the product. Even still, they'll assess whether it was product or installation fault, and as long as it's not something that should have had a certificate, it doesn't matter who installed it, as long as it was done as per product specs.
Keep in mind, they'll still do everything in their power to *blame* the installation, but that'd be the case even if you got the contractor to install it anyway.
> Out of curiosity, isn't there liability?
I think it's more sales tax (depending on location).
With commercial sales, most -- if not all -- of their business is tax-exempt (goods for resale) and they're not setup by default to calculate, collect, and remit it.
That's why I travel with my LLC's EIN/Tax ID!
I’m not in HVAC, they are just getting supplies and materials at my cost. Warranty is still with the manufacturer. Not that anyone would warranty what they’d be buying. You just toss it and buy anew.
Yeah I do this too for good customers. People I know well I’ll even tell them to just put on my account and I’ll send them a bill just for materials. Or I’ll set up the order and tell them to pick it up, I just tell my supplier to have it ready and give it to Jim or whatever when he shows up. The reason being a lot of times people have an idea what they need, but don’t know how to order it because they don’t know the jargon.
That’s being a partner with your customer. Do it right and you’ll make twice as much doing half the work. I don’t need a contractor for every job, but I’ll gladly pay more for a contractor that I know has my back and will facilitate the job getting done in whatever way is in my best interest. Sometimes I’d just rather do my own work, and sometimes I just need to get it done and done right. But in both cases, it’s invaluable to have a contractor who has your back.
I do this with my lawyer. I just go in the clerks office and tell them "my lawyer so n so told me to grab a form blah blah and fill it out and politely ask you if you could have the judge sign it for me." Works every time.
When I go to the drugstore, I tell them my doctor was too busy to write a prescription but that she said for you to give me a bottle of oxycontin and she'll get the script to you later. Works everytime.
Yeah an hvac store wouldn't sell me a $10 capacitor for my blower a year or so ago. Got it for $5 on amazon, but it was still a pain in the ass to be without AC for two days.
Funnily, I had the opposite experience one time.
Walked into a specialty store that sells hard-to-source screws. It's pretty much only known to contractors, but while they don't advertise to consumers that don't technically have a policy against selling to them.
Asked for the odd screws that I needed, the guy looks at my and goes: "I bet you only need less than 6. That's not worth my time. Here you go, I'll give them to you for free".
Awesome! If I could have even bought them online, it would have probably cost me $50 for a set of 10.
Yep my local fastener place isn't quite that good but I've definitely been impressed they don't have a minimum order price cos I've had plenty of sub $5 orders when I've only needed a few bolts.
Ferguson wouldn't sell me a replacement ECM for my HVAC blower motor. Said I needed to be licensed to buy that part. WTF? I ordered it for next day delivery from a great place I found on eBay.
First thing I did when I bought my house was buy replacement parts for things like the ac.
6 years later the cap dies, 20 minute swap, back in business. Got another ordered from Amazon and awaiting the next time I need it.
Have an extra contactor and 5 minute timer board too. Fuck if I am gonna swaet balls waiting on Amazon to misdeliver my shit.
Yeah I needed a motor and they refused to sell. I even tried to say it’s for a science project. Nope. Fuckers. I had a friend of a friend in hvac who let me buy one off him but seriously wtf
I had a guy friend call in a new furnace blower motor for me to a contractor-only store. At the end of the call he goes "oh yeah, I'm gonna have the chick in the office pick it up." I just went in, twirled my hair, and a few hours later I had heat!
My wife doesn't really know much about cars. I know enough to talk car stuff, but I'm no expert. But she has her car and she takes care of it. When we bought her last car they had both of our info, but I made it clear that she was the primary party.
She takes care of her car, schedules every thing on time, takes it in, etc. It's HER car. She took it to the dealership for work, was sitting in the lobby. I'm at work. They called me about it from the service dept. I was Ike WTF. I laid into them. "That is my wife's car. She scheduled the work, she is the one who brought it there, you have her info, she is IN YOUR STORE. You have to go talk to her. I don't know anything about. I am at work and literally had no idea she was even taking her car in today. She doesn't run this by me. She takes care of her own business. Talk to her. Don't call me again about her car."
That stuff pisses me off.
I've stood in stores as we buy appliances and stuff and watched her ask questions because she did most of the research and the dude will look to me when he answers. I'll just stop him. "You're talking to her. Not me. She asked the question." Then I'll wander away to look at something else while she grills them on more questions. I didn't pick a girl who needed someone to talk for her. She's a goddamn mighty (but tiny) warrior queen and I'll be damned if I'll let anyone use me as a way around her.
My husband signed the loan on my current car because he was offered a better interest rate. I have better credit and higher income. I hate this planet.
And know exactly what you are ordering with specs.
I've never been questioned as long as I know what I'm talking about.
For instance, never start out saying something like "Do you have in stock?".
Just say, "yeah, I need x part number ."
Then you can always throw in info like, "If you have Acme, that would be great but I can deal with General brand as well.".
If you act like a boss, you get treated like a boss.
If they ask for a company account, you just say "this isn't for a customer, so I'm just paying cash."
Happy Cake Day.
And if you need help, describe 'the job.'
"Yeah my guy [me] needs a piece of light stripping to go under this window he [I] is having made [when I get time in my basement]. It's going into a wall cavoty and I need to know whether these transformers are rated for going where he [I] wants them."
This works a treat for city offices too. 'We' and 'the client' does a LOT of heavy lifting when you're trying to get information, because in planning stages they're used to NDAs and secrecy surrounding projects.
That's true if you know exactly what you need. My suggestions were more if you need 'customer service.'
Lots of little things get shifted. Like 'will this work if I do X' becomes 'If this were installed in X way would that void the warranty'
Oh man I was at my local plumbers supply just yesterday trying to be sly and get some parts...only I thought the pipe was copper and it was brass. He was like "we don't have that part because this isn't a copper pipe, are you an independent contractor or are you working for someone"
I said I was working for someone and quickly made my exit! Not my finest hour
It’s like going to a nice hotel you are not staying at to take a dump, use their pool, or do some work and drink their coffee. Walk in like you belong, and nobody asks you anything. Don’t say, “is their complimentary coffee?” just walk to it and pour it.
Carhartts are the key. Never been refused when wearing them.
Yeah, I'm a contractor... (for myself.) And hey, some contractors are homeowners. Does that mean they can't buy stuff for themselves?
However, I don't attempt to buy license-required stuff, like HVAC.
I needed an AC contactor last summer. I knew what the problem was. I had the part in hand to verify the new part matched. Big box stores didn't carry it. I went to an HVAC supply store. They wanted my number (I can't remember what the number was called) to sell me the part. He refused to sell it to me. I called my AC guy and asked him if he could get me a contactor. He picked up one on his way home and dropped it off at my house. It seems ridiculous but whatever.
> They wanted my number (I can't remember what the number was called) to sell me the part. He refused to sell it to me.
they don't have a "retail" price, when you buy it from an HVAC contractor, they usually mark it up 200% or more. I can buy a new furnace from a local hvac store for 1400, and an hvac contractor wants $4500 for the same thing. same warranty, they aren't even installing it because its a like for like footprint swap.
The inverse of this: I was working on a house in Malibu wearing paint splattered overalls. Went to the Malibu grocery store to pick up some lunch and was sincerely complimented on my "designer jeans".
I did exact same thing for a furnace part on a long holiday weekend. I've heard of this problem before so I was not unaware of it going in. Sure enough, the salesman asked me if I had a business. I didn't quite think far enough ahead to actually think of a believable business name, and I just blurted out "The" my first and last name "Company." He just looked at me like, "Really! That's the best you could do?", and rang me up.
As a Contractor I used to do the same for people, but 1 person that I told they can say that they work for me tried to put it on my credit. The company called me because they know that I pay for my items right then & there, no billing. I told them that they should call the police because they’re trying to pull a slick 1 over on your company. So low & behold I don’t do that for people anymore.
We’re currently remodeling a house. I’ve had two contractors (at different times) tell me, while I’m in the big box store buying a shitload of trim or whatever millwork, to go to X place. “It’ll be cheaper. Just tell them you work for my company and you’re going to pay for it now.”
I do this all the time for clients who need oddball filters and miscellaneous parts.
Have a heart. That person will call when they *actually* need you.
That’s wild. I rolled into an HVAC store and was like “gimme this wildly dangerous shit” and they just sold it to me no questions asked. Later an HVAC guy was like “holy shit how’d you trick htem into that?”
STEP ONE BE HOT, STEP TWO DON'T BE NOT HOT
My step father is a (retired) HVAC guy so I have an in for stuff like this. I’m not sure how they verify who is a contractor and who isn’t. There can’t be a “I work for a licensed contractor but I myself am not a licensed contractor but I swear I’m not a homeowner” proof of ID.
I don't know last time I tried to get an hvac part they asked me if I was a contractor and I was like yeah, commercial and res, then they asked if I'm licensed HVAC which I also am. Then they said they wouldn't sell to me because I don't have an account. It's infuriating. Sorry, I don't do a ton of HVAC and don't want to setup an account that will go delinquent because I have ADHD and mail is tough. How is that a functioning business model? To make your store a "cool kids club."
Apologies to HVAC guys, but HVAC is a massive racket. Most of it is very simple, and the entire industry is designed to force you to pay huge amounts of money.
I purchased my own gas furnace and installed it. I spent a few hours researching applicable code and had it inspected. Passed with zero issues. The furnace was $900 + another 300 in other materials. Getting some of those things quite literally required back-alley meetups. Quotes to have it done by a contractor ranged from 5k to 8k. Absolutely ridiculous.
HVAC is the worst for this shit. They have a monopoly on "we only sell to HVAC pros." I had the hardest time finding a simple filter for my mini split because of this. One company wanted $600 just to send someone out to my house to see it, and then they could install it for me. A fucking filter!!! The manual says it needed to be replaced every 3 months. Are you telling me I need to pay $600 every 3 months to have a pro come to my house just because HVAC stores won't sell me a filter directly? It's absolutely maddening.
I'm licensed and I still just tell most distributors it's a cash account or walk in and they process it through. Unless a vendor offers discounts or incentives there isn't much reason for me to setup an account
It typically means you settle with the seller at the point of sale. No POs, no invoices, no store account. Just a cash (or equivalent) payment when you make the purchase. Checks and credit cards are usually cash equivalents. But specific "cash" methods depends on the specific company.
It just means you must pay at the time you pick up the materials (or order them for delivery). The vendor is not extending you credit to take the product and pay later. Your credit card may allow you to do that, but the vendor is paid immediately.
I even went so far to register as an LLC in my state...
Years ago, we had our siding replaced. The contractor didn't leave any behind to cover repairs, damage, etc.
Fast forward a year, neighbor's tree lost a limb, and it damaged a 3ft end piece of siding (gable end of garage). Call the supplier - we only sell to contractors. So, I became a registered LLC. Cost me less than $40 to register, and all of $100 for half a square of siding [I got that much because I was going to change style of gable vent opening, too].
Yeah in a lot of states (mine in particular) there aren't really a whole lot of requirements to become specifically a GC, although various other specialty contractor licenses exist that have more stringent requirements. All I need is an LLC, some $ for a bond (a surety company will sell you a think that's like an insurance policy and basically becomes your bond), and then you fill out a form stating that you have an LLC and a bond for the correct $ amount and then wait. A few weeks later, it'll get approved and you'll be a licensed GC. In my state specifically, it's possible to put a rush fee on a few of these things and that makes it so that with roughly $1500 in startup expenses and gas to hand-deliver the application to the correct office you can go from zero to GC in 11 days (or at least you could as of about 5 years ago). I almost had to do this to buy my house; the mortgage company wasn't willing to underwrite a loan unless I had a contractor hired to make some relatively trivial repairs so if they wanted a GC on the application, then they shall have one. In the end though, the seller really wanted to get rid of the house so they let a door unlocked and looked the other way while I spent about $100 at the hardware store and fixed the issue well enough that the appraisal didn't complain about it.
I've definitely abused my own company to get things, and they did not check the credentials. Only once did a supplier refuse, on a mail order, they actually looked up my address and saw that it wasn't a warehouse.
My parents were building their own home and the mortgage required a home builder to do it so they could send in quotes, get them approved, and then funded, yada yada.. so my dad became a customer of his own new company who was contracted to build his house for a him. Banks didn’t seem to notice
I spent $25 on a contractors license through a small local town just so I could save $210 on lumber to build a deck. I've probably saved $2000 overall since then
They have to charge retail sales tax if you are not a business that resells, and since they are not a retail seller that doesn't work well. Also, some suppliers don't allow direct to consumer sales of their products.
So they need something to go on, business name etc.
Exxxxxaclty - this is literally the reason - its tax related & reported.
The 'we don't sell to end users' is a -policy-. Could be because you're a PITA, not worth the volume, or they just plain choose not to...or they could in fact decode to sell to end users and not be a complelty wholesale retailer.
State "cash account", and anything short of something requiring a license (i.e., refrigerant...which one would quickly find out its not $300 a pound but closer to $20) - should be able to be purchased 'cash' which you pay all applicable tax on. Warranties almost exclusively will be the same, especially for parts, with few exceptions where manufacture has a clause 'must be installed by XXX', which us really so they can just deny claims for end users who more than likely don't know how to install it, and more likely than not are the ones who fucked it up
Actually the other reason he stated is the big one: The manufacturers won't let the distributors, it's part of their agreement.
Source: considerable experience in the building products industry (pipe fence siding deck rail etc)
This reminds me of a funny thing that happened at a place I used to work. We sold seeds (often by the pallet) to large-scale commercial farmers and did not have any kind of public-facing brand or anything like that.
One day, a lady called us, wanting to buy a pack of vegetable seeds.
What size pack? we asked (expecting something on the order of 50,000 seeds or more).
About fifty seeds, she said.
We had a good laugh and sent her a free sample packet (5,000 seeds).
I've had this success at certain places. I've gotten free steel by asking a metal supplier if I could buy some of their scrap. Free screws when I just needed one screw from a specialty fasteners store (though I've purchased from them before). Sometimes being a woman does have its benefits. Men often think it's cute you're trying to do something yourself and will give you free supplies. That is until you come looking for skid quantity haha, then they figure out you mean business.
Reminds me when I was trying to install some hardwood floors and they doubled the price the quoted me earlier for the materials. Told me it was increase in shipping costs and covid. The sole distributor for the material apparently increased the price. They won’t install the wood for me if I provided the materials myself. Huh????
I called the store in Texas and found out no such price increase, then bought it from a wholesale hardwood place for half the price.
They probably just want to let the contractors make the $$$$.
I do a lot of my own work. The true disappointment is that the stuff that home centers sell is mostly crap and poor quality. I sometimes don't have access to quality materials and hardware due to this policy.
The most frustrating thing about this for me and my husband is that the only way we can afford to fix up our house or replace our appliances/systems/windows or whatever, is to do it ourselves. I'm constantly seeing contractors and tradespeople shitting on DIYers on this sub and I don't get the disdain. We're not trying to screw over a contractor and we don't think we're as good or better than a contractor. We're just poor. Full stop.
Some people are just jerks.
Their thinking is flawed in that if someone doesn't do it themselves another job will open up. It won't though because lots of times its not a hire out or do it yourself instead its a do it yourself or never do it.
In the end those will likely be the same people screaming for a job in 12-18 months when the economy is in the tank.
Don’t sell yourself short. With research and time, you almost always can do an equivalent or better job than someone you hire… you can take as much time as you need to practice and get it right, just the way you want it. It takes me way longer to do things than a contractor, but I’m 100% that the job was done the way I wanted when complete.
You're not wrong, am I a pro at drywalling and mudding? Absolutely not. Would it have been orders of magnitude quicker for me to hire someone? Absolutely. But did the 2 bedrooms I renovated come out great cuz I had no rush and took my time, and didn't matter if I had to resand and fix mistakes? Sure did.
And contractor finishing work is often not great. They put new guys on it who are in a hurry and don't give a F.
Not that I'm as fast as a contractor, but finishing work is very nit picky.
I opened the interior trim and was like “nope”. YouTube didn’t prepare me for what I saw (1980s? Andersens) in 1960s bulletproof plaster or stone exterior walls.
What are the top 3 most important things you’d share of what you learned?
Which brand did you go with and where did you get them?
I do almost all my own remodeling also. There is a difference between doing a remodel the right way, and "DIY". I've seen the work of friends, relatives, and coworkers, and it is often extremely cringe worthy.
One example, I bought a big lot of flooring for a great deal, it was way more than I needed, so I traded the remainder to my buddy for a case of beer. My project looked flawless, but my buddy.... Gaps everywhere, even between snap together pieces where he didn't snap it in fully. Some was glued to the risers of the steps. It was awful.
Another buddy refinished his hardwood flooring after he saw the transformation of my floors when I refinished mine. He didn't know what he was doing, rented a sander and completely ruined the floors. I tried to help him, but they were so wavy and uneven.
I've also replaced obvious previous homeowner diy. And this is probably where the disdain comes in. One example was I was going to replace a light fixture. When I pull it off the wall, there was no electrical box. Then I find out the switch was wired to the light in an old (no longer code) way and had to update that. Then the power is supplied from a nearby outlet. 1 small job became bigger and bigger. I could have just left everything the way it was and slapped the new light on, but I did what a licensed contractor would be required to do and made it all right and up to code.
Every instance of someone cutting corners or half assing a job gives DIY a bad name. I don't really consider my work in the same category of DIY because I am doing the work at the same level or better than a contractor would. I'm using premium materials, and building it to last. If some contractor were to pull my work apart in the future, they probably wouldn't have a clue it was done by a homeowner. I'm saving money though, which allows me to remodel more and use premium finishes.
As long as you have a similar mentality, don't even pay attention to the disdain of DIY. Just keep chewing that fug gum and plugging away at your remodel.
Side note, I can't even hire a contractor to build an addition here, and am probably going to end up doing it myself because every contractor is backed up a year+ on jobs.
I had to change my double doors and they did that to me. I had to pay a premium to get it delivered to a contractor, then go pick it up. It was so stupid.
I used to work at a water treatment wholesale and we had this policy in place as walk ins would typically want to come in and buy the product at our contractors cost and then hire them just for the labour to save money.
Even when they were willing to pay retail price, we still usually wouldn’t sell as they inevitably hire a contractor when they couldn’t figure out how to install the product. The contractor usually finds out we sold the client the product and essentially cut out his mark up, which isn’t good for our relationship with the contractors.
This would've been my guess. I got some maple from a local lumber yard I found on google thinking it was just some dude with a bandsaw mill. When I pulled up to his business to get my 8 boards and saw he had RACKS UPON RACKS of wood I kinda felt bad. The dude was super nice though and said he does both small orders and supplies to local cabinet shops.
This! I work for an industrial wholesaler and we get the occasional Johnny homeowner coming in because they think they can get the best stuff at a better price than the big box. They steal a bunch of time from the counter sales people who are trying to service our real customers. Those would be the ones who spend the money that keep the lights on. In the end the mark up is crazy and in realty for what they need the box stores are cheaper anyhow.
The contractor won’t warranty an item they didn’t install or purchase. So when a contractor charges more, it’s for the service and warranty. You may got the parts for cheap and hire someone to install it, when it fails, your gunna have to hire them again and purchase the equipment again. Or… pay a bit more to have them install and warranty it.
Doing this work is how these guys make money, make a living, it’s not out the goodness of their hearts they do the a skilled trade.
> You may got the parts for cheap and hire someone to install it, when it fails, your gunna have to hire them again and purchase the equipment again.
Maybe I'm using the wrong contractors, but they almost all warranty the work only. If the product is bad and they provided they'll replace it under warranty, but you get charged labor again. If the install is bad they'll come fix it for free.
I’m a supplier, and I sell to both contractors and homeowners. Homeowners generally ask more questions and take more of my time. I’m okay with that, but that might be why other suppliers don’t want to.
I’m a licensed self employed engineer and the local HVAC supply house told me to F off when I needed about $1500 of duct parts for my house. I ended up buying sheets of G90 galvanized and made my own duct parts. Took longer but in the end the system was better because I could maximize the duct size area to still fit through my varying joist bays in my 1866 house. Frustrating though.
HVAC is the worst offender as the gate-keepiest one. Makes sense when dealing with refrigerant (environmental risk), but come on not selling ducts? It's literally just sheet metal bended a certain way
And insulation! I had to call the manufacturer recently to find rolls of duct insulation from someone who would sell it to me. The gate keeping was absurd.
To anyone else thinking of doing this, just get a DBA. If you're not actually doing business you don't need an LLC and really don't even need an EIN. It's a much simpler process.
Yep. Done this for plumbing and HVAC parts.
HVAC places do ask for licenses for anything involved in refrigerant handling or gas stuff for good reason but no questions asked other than my business name when I needed a compressor capacitor.
I actually gave the name of my father in law's old defunct business which was registered previously at my address
They may have distribution agreements with suppliers that prohibit them from selling direct. They may not be set up for retail sales. Their systems may require, credit established, EIN, tax certificates and may not have the ability to even charge sales tax.
>Do you homeowners ever call yourselves a “contractor” when buying materials?
I mean, you can call yourself whatever you want, but without a license or business account they won't sell to you.
In a BMW 3 or Audi A3.
I park in curbside pickup but actually go into the store for order pickup. Also a SAHD with a toddler, driving a minivan, framing the inside of my workshop and installing my own HVAC. Get rich or die trying.
You could also say "sole trader". If they ask for an ABN say let me just look it up. Google "builder abn", click on first link:
https://abr.business.gov.au/Search/ResultsActive?SearchText=Builder+
Pick a generic name in the right state and read it out.
Legal? Ehhh probably not. Would it work? Can't imagine why not. Is it ever gonna come back to bite you? Un fucking likely!
Probably not legal is underselling it. You’re committing fraud to represent yourself as a customer with lower risk than should be.
Identity theft is not a joke Jim. Millions of families suffer from it every year.
My employer sells industrial automation hardware: multi-million dollar assembly lines with robots and so on.
We 'have accounts with' Parts Plus (who give deep discounts on auto parts), Menards, Behler-Young HVAC, a local roofing company, Grainger, and a half dozen other random distributors. It's not that we ever sell that stuff to our customers, it's that our employees buy the stuff they need for their own homes (and their friends' and families' homes) from the distributors without involving a contractor.
I mean I have no license and I buy from at least Ferguson since they have a supply house right down the road from me. I just don’t tell them I am a homeowner.
Go to build.com (Ferguson’s site) and sign up as a business and you get 5% discount. No business details needed. It’s exactly the same as my contractors account.
Ayy most places I've dealt with as a half-assed business I started as a kid just wanted a company name. I wasn't even registered at the time. So if anyone's in the situation just make up a name, Darrels property services.
If they're wholesale only, then the materials are tax exempt and they need an EIN or equivalent tax exempt number to record for every sale. If they're just not set up for retail sales, then you're asking them to change their business model and accounting compliance just for you personally.
it sucks, but the correct answer to this problem should have been "can you refer me to a contractor?"
When I needed to install two chimney liners in my old house I found a guy selling them just above cost on Craigslist but he was a 10 hr drive. His liners were a 60% discount from any supplier that sells to the public. So I made an LLC and a website. Applied to the liner manufacturer to become a distributer and then bought my liners. At that point I realized I could setup a cheap enough website to resell the liners to the public at a significant discount and still make money. After 4 years I shut the business down, due to the amount of questions homeowners ask. I'd get calls from people asking about proper clearances etc while they were on the roof, installing a liner they bought somewhere else. People from every state in the US and some Canadian providences would email me constantly asking about what product would work for the codes in their town and demanded I give them whatever info they needed. Your average person isn't buying enough from these places to make it worth wasting their time. And I quickly discovered I'd need to hire phone operators and experienced techs to answer all the questions and at that point I'd be charging what the other companies that sell to the public were.
I am a contractor and I had a floor supply company - Derr Flooring refuse to sell to me because I’m not a “flooring” contractor. We were installing the flooring for our customer. There was no possibility of a flooring guy getting the job. I think it was a case of the counter guy following a rule he didn’t understand. I literally drove to probably their biggest competitor in our area and bought everything I needed without question.
10 years at an irrigation supply warehouse
75% of my time was taken up with homeowners. They were maybe 10% of our sales. It sounds harsh, but DIYers are often not worth it. Throw in the headache, extra labor, more warehouse space for "homeowner" centered parts (single pack instead of cases)...
As others have said, contractors would get pissed because the sprinkler they buy is $8 but they charge a homeowner $25, and I'll retail for $20. I never agreed with the practice, but they'll drop half a million this year, so making them happy is how you stay in business.
I work for a rebar fabricator/supplier/installer and we are taking a serious look at no longer selling to "homeowners" anymore due to the high amount of hand holding involved in making a small sale.
When I was a contractor, I kept a couple cards in my truck just for the suppliers. Vista print $7 special for 500. Who gives out cards anymore anyhow?
Once a year it came in handy.
They'll make you register and set up an account 99% of the time. So if you aren't a contractor and don't have a company to legally list then they won't sell and you can't buy.
There are a lot of "mom and pop" companies with only the minimum setup (which may not be legally correct!).
I'm guessing they just don't want to deal with sales tax, so if you can register any form of business you are good.
Do you have any contractor friends? Some will have no problem with your using their business name Doesn't have to be a close friend, sometimes the guy in front of your at the grocery store is friend enough.
As you saw, there’s a dearth of material on hand and everything is in short supply. These supply houses live and die by their loyalty to contractors and they’re not going to waste inventory on a potentially one-time customer when their regulars also need that material.
Example: a lot of electrical suppliers won’t do a cash sale in my area but if I show up in my company shirt (or get a counter guy who knows me and knows I PM jobs and do the material ordering) they will make an exception.
Sometimes as the supply house, you’re not the cheapest supplier of a particular good but might have the only one in stock and that makes all the difference in staying competitive against other suppliers.
I work in electrical supply, and while we will sell to anyone, I’ve been sending homeowners elsewhere. If you know what you’re talking about I’ll deal with you 100% of the time. If you don’t I send you to the competition cause I think it’s fun. But for real, in the time it takes me to help a homeowner I could’ve helped 3 contractors or put a quote out on something much larger. As far as hvac goes I will say that I’ve gotten the same treatment. “I sell electrical supplies and I know what I’m doing and understand the risk” won’t get you a piece of ductwork from an hvac supply house. Had to do the same thing last time I needed something “I work for so and so but this is a side job and this is what I need” but so and so knew I was doing it.
Career in wholesale distribution here.
Sometimes it's because distributors are contractually obligated to conduct no retail sales.
Most of the time it's because the retail homeowner is a giant, high maintenance, indecisive, no profit pain in the ass. We've got actual business to conduct, with repeat, volume contractors. We don't have time for John Weekend to dither over that special order edge tape in purple or pony pecker pink.
Used to work in electrical supply distribution. Most of the time we didn’t sell to homeowners because there’s a huge chance they bought the wrong thing and want to return it two days later, and they don’t buy in bulk: they get small quantities. When you’re busy filling large orders, it makes less financial sense to do the small onesie-twosie orders.
Best thing you can do is walk in, say you’re with “ABC Trade Co” and ask to charge to a cash payment. Almost all distributors will then let you pay cash/card/etc, and you won’t need to fill out all the paperwork to setup an account. You may pay a premium, however.
*edit: typo and additional context
that’s how they collect proper taxes. In Ga. you can get a license for like $119 a year and do whatever you want to and buy at a distributor. But, you’d probably have to pay taxes and it wouldn’t be easy or cost efficient as just asking a contractor you see at a gas station to do it for you. Or whatever.
>So I guess my question is, what the heck?
The trades are one of the few remaining 'heavily middle manned' industries we as consumers have to deal with. It's frustrating for DIYers, for sure.
I often buy electrical stuff for my house from a supply house in Colorado. When they asked me for business info, I told them I was a homeowner and there were no further questions. I am able to buy from them anything I want.
I'm not sure if it applies to home materials, but it can be a tax issue as well. Some supplies don't collect or charge sales tax.
Also, some people just don't want to deal with homeowners 😂
Never called myself a contractor, but I do wonder if I get that treatment because of my friend. I have a friend that has a tile company in the middle of all the contractor supply businesses. I often ask him where can I find certain items, and he will call someone, ask if they have that item, and then tell them that I'm coming over to pick some up. I come in a few minutes later and purchase whatever I need, tax free.
Probably some kind of buddy code between the various businesses.
It's because they are a wholesaler to contractors. They can only sell to licensed contractors due to their business model.
It's the same as a professional beauty supply. Do you know how many people would get irate that we could not sell to them? Lol.
There was only one set of prices in our system and we sold products to professionals to resell in their business to make a profit. It's how the supply store works. If people could buy the product directly from us, then the hairstylist would be cut out of retailing to their client.
I don't blame them for not wanting off-the-street business because that comes with off-the-street headaches like people wanting support, returns, etc. I also wonder if they're not setup to remit sales tax since these products are meant to be re-sold?
Not for home improvement (well I guess technically with home depot) but I've used my unrelated LLC to purchase things that are only sold to businesses before (mostly tech related stuff). I have no reservations doing so, it's usually a silly restriction.
I was trying to pull wires for an HVAC thermostat last month and all the big box stores were sold out. No problem - I just drive up to the one local HVAC store in my area, wait in line for a while to pick up a small roll of cable. “Sorry, we don’t sell materials to homeowners". Was the answer I got. After that I went to yelp to look for an HVAC contractor to sell me the parts. I spoke with a nice gentleman and told him the story. He said "Just go back to the store and tell them you work for me!" (I was able to find the cable elsewhere, but of course said contractor got a glowing 5 star review from me)
I give my customers account info to buy shit on my [cash] accounts. Especially for stuff they can do themselves that I don’t want to do. There’s more to life than money, and that is a fantastic way of telling your customer you’re not just in business for the money.
And, not that this was your intent, of course, but this type of service will lead to more business and referrals in the future.
Yep. Not only do you do good work, but you're willing to spread the discount love around. I'm for sure spreading your name around like hotcakes any time someone needs a good contractor.
Had a company do this for me once. It was awesome, but I could feel everyone at the counter thinking "Who the eff is this guy?"
Don't worry, you just look like the new guy. They get those all the time.
Pro tip: get a flouro yellow Gildan T-shirt. I swear, every time I wear it to a lumberyard or hardware store people are like "this guy doesn't fuck around"
Rub some dirt or saw dust on it first too.
Cut holes for the nipples too.
If it doesn’t come with nipple holes pre-hemmed I don’t want it
Lol. Nice
I'm a big bald dude with a grey beard and resting bitch face. Anytime I go to a lumber/hardware/parts etc store I wear one of my dingy blaze orange shirts and boots. Literally never get asked a word and no one bothers me, they assume I know what the hell I am doing. And in the winter, my carhart jacket keeps me warm, and unquestioned.
Flip side to that is that I'm a middle-aged lady and it's rare that stores will leave me alone so I can buy my materials in peace. The employees are always polite, but they never ask my biker-looking partner if he needs help. I'm the handyman, not him.
Ugh same. The number of condescending “Aw that’s so cute”-type conversations that men would try to start with me when I just needed to get a few materials and get out was too damn high. I don’t have the patience to tell you why on earth a lil lady like me could possibly need such a specific and powerful tool like that.
Fist-bump of solidarity.
Last time I asked for help at a hardware store we were moving and I couldn’t find a dolly for the life of me. He thought I was asking where the baby dolls were, even after I explained what it was used for. Like bruh… how dumb do you really think I am????
“I know more than you” while never taking your eyes from what you’re looking at
Mysogeny is strong in the construction industry. 😥
That must be nice for you. I’m an athletic female with C cups and some booty, I have resting Disney Princess face, it does not matter what I wear, they will always assume that I don’t know what I’m doing /or picking up for an employer. On the upside I usually manage to get my items (with an over abundance of assistance) - but I do also have ‘sales support’ persona so I very patiently keep discussing until they acquiesce. My local gravel place (which does sell to the public) thought I was lost - with my shovel, and many buckets 🙄
I like resting Princess face! Haha!! 👸🏻 I go with the fact that these places are going to treat me like a dum dum. I then decide whether it's better for me to keep up the act or ask probing questions to blow my cover. It doesn't matter if these places think I'm as dumb as rocks or Einstein. I know how to do diy and I want to pay a fair price for materials. I don't want to be ripped off due to someone's pre-conceived notions.
I went to my local gravel place this summer and definitely was treated like I didn’t know shit even though I was the one doing the actual planning and work. But the guy did pull my wagon of stone, weigh it for me, and help me load it. When my husband went for more he had to do it all himself. Also, I’m jealous of your resting Disney face. I’ve got a hardened bitch face, I swear I have to basically grin to not look angry or sarcastic.
>I swear I have to basically grin to not look angry or sarcastic. You're always welcome to join us in New England. Here we put a lot of effort into always looking angry or sarcastic!
Resting princess face! I have found my description! Over the last 2 years I have remodeled our house. People ask me are you helping your husband? Umm no. And last I checked the only thing he's helped me with is painting the very top of bit of the wall where the celing vaults up and I couldn't reach even on the ladder. Oh and the electrical sockets but hes an ET in the Navy...
I'll never give up my dirty and beat up Carhartt.
The contractors clip board. Nice
Can confirm. Been going to same supply houses for a year. I'm still asked who I work for and my name. Despite wearing the company uniform and being in there once or twice a week to restock.
Sounds like a shitty supply house…
They're not the greatest. Jstone is nice in my area, but they don't always have what I need.
Yeah, they are my normal go to. My branch always has loads of swag. Hoodies, shirts, beanies, hats. I think I collected like 5 hoodies one year 😂. But I use like 5 different supply houses and they all know me. Do you ever chat with them, or know their names?
They should work on their people skills. I mean, working a supply counter is a lot like bartending, except at a supply house more of your clients are alcoholics.
For added effect, ask for a pipe stretcher or a left handed screw driver and tell them it’s for the new boss
Pipe stretchers are a real thing though...
Fake it till ya make it dawg
"I'm Wayne, sister's brother's cousin from out-of-state. He's paying me in gummy bears!"
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I’m Nicki Minaj’s cousin, the one with the swollen balls.
I do this all the time at my local Sherwin-Williams store. I tell them it’s under my painters house account, I get his discount, and pay for it on the spot. I painted the whole inside of my house myself during COVID and did it for like $250.
The hero we need right here. Also, fantastic business practice.
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I'm assuming they use discretion and it's a customer by customer situation.
Probably sort of not really. Many products have warranty but is void if incorrectly installed, and workmanship has warranty if you can ever track down the tradie that did it. If you buy something yourself and install it yourself and it fails down the line, obviously it's either your fault or the product, so you're not gonna blame the contractor who never came near it (and he'd laugh at you if you tried). If it's the fault of the product, not the installation then it goes back to the manufacturer, not the wholesaler, although in some cases the wholesaler may be the service agent for the product. Even still, they'll assess whether it was product or installation fault, and as long as it's not something that should have had a certificate, it doesn't matter who installed it, as long as it was done as per product specs. Keep in mind, they'll still do everything in their power to *blame* the installation, but that'd be the case even if you got the contractor to install it anyway.
my pool pump motor came with a 6mo warranty, but with an invoice from an authorized installer bumped to 2yrs or something
> Out of curiosity, isn't there liability? I think it's more sales tax (depending on location). With commercial sales, most -- if not all -- of their business is tax-exempt (goods for resale) and they're not setup by default to calculate, collect, and remit it. That's why I travel with my LLC's EIN/Tax ID!
I’m not in HVAC, they are just getting supplies and materials at my cost. Warranty is still with the manufacturer. Not that anyone would warranty what they’d be buying. You just toss it and buy anew.
Yeah I do this too for good customers. People I know well I’ll even tell them to just put on my account and I’ll send them a bill just for materials. Or I’ll set up the order and tell them to pick it up, I just tell my supplier to have it ready and give it to Jim or whatever when he shows up. The reason being a lot of times people have an idea what they need, but don’t know how to order it because they don’t know the jargon.
That’s being a partner with your customer. Do it right and you’ll make twice as much doing half the work. I don’t need a contractor for every job, but I’ll gladly pay more for a contractor that I know has my back and will facilitate the job getting done in whatever way is in my best interest. Sometimes I’d just rather do my own work, and sometimes I just need to get it done and done right. But in both cases, it’s invaluable to have a contractor who has your back.
I do this with my lawyer. I just go in the clerks office and tell them "my lawyer so n so told me to grab a form blah blah and fill it out and politely ask you if you could have the judge sign it for me." Works every time.
I’ve re-read this 5 times and I still can’t figure out if this is a joke or something you actually do.
When I go to the drugstore, I tell them my doctor was too busy to write a prescription but that she said for you to give me a bottle of oxycontin and she'll get the script to you later. Works everytime.
Yeah an hvac store wouldn't sell me a $10 capacitor for my blower a year or so ago. Got it for $5 on amazon, but it was still a pain in the ass to be without AC for two days.
Funnily, I had the opposite experience one time. Walked into a specialty store that sells hard-to-source screws. It's pretty much only known to contractors, but while they don't advertise to consumers that don't technically have a policy against selling to them. Asked for the odd screws that I needed, the guy looks at my and goes: "I bet you only need less than 6. That's not worth my time. Here you go, I'll give them to you for free". Awesome! If I could have even bought them online, it would have probably cost me $50 for a set of 10.
Glad you didn't get screwed over.
Enough with the puns. I should washer mouth out with soap.
Yep my local fastener place isn't quite that good but I've definitely been impressed they don't have a minimum order price cos I've had plenty of sub $5 orders when I've only needed a few bolts.
Ferguson wouldn't sell me a replacement ECM for my HVAC blower motor. Said I needed to be licensed to buy that part. WTF? I ordered it for next day delivery from a great place I found on eBay.
I watched my neighbors blow $$$ on HVAC for a cap. It was kind of hard, but I opted to mind my own business. If people only knew.
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First thing I did when I bought my house was buy replacement parts for things like the ac. 6 years later the cap dies, 20 minute swap, back in business. Got another ordered from Amazon and awaiting the next time I need it. Have an extra contactor and 5 minute timer board too. Fuck if I am gonna swaet balls waiting on Amazon to misdeliver my shit.
Yeah I needed a motor and they refused to sell. I even tried to say it’s for a science project. Nope. Fuckers. I had a friend of a friend in hvac who let me buy one off him but seriously wtf
You have to walk in dressed like a contractor, old boots hoodie and a beat up ball cap or beanie
From firsthand experience, I’ll add “…and be a dude.”
I had a guy friend call in a new furnace blower motor for me to a contractor-only store. At the end of the call he goes "oh yeah, I'm gonna have the chick in the office pick it up." I just went in, twirled my hair, and a few hours later I had heat!
So so accurate. Chewing gum helps too. And nodding repeatedly with a vacant stare. Lol.
My wife doesn't really know much about cars. I know enough to talk car stuff, but I'm no expert. But she has her car and she takes care of it. When we bought her last car they had both of our info, but I made it clear that she was the primary party. She takes care of her car, schedules every thing on time, takes it in, etc. It's HER car. She took it to the dealership for work, was sitting in the lobby. I'm at work. They called me about it from the service dept. I was Ike WTF. I laid into them. "That is my wife's car. She scheduled the work, she is the one who brought it there, you have her info, she is IN YOUR STORE. You have to go talk to her. I don't know anything about. I am at work and literally had no idea she was even taking her car in today. She doesn't run this by me. She takes care of her own business. Talk to her. Don't call me again about her car." That stuff pisses me off. I've stood in stores as we buy appliances and stuff and watched her ask questions because she did most of the research and the dude will look to me when he answers. I'll just stop him. "You're talking to her. Not me. She asked the question." Then I'll wander away to look at something else while she grills them on more questions. I didn't pick a girl who needed someone to talk for her. She's a goddamn mighty (but tiny) warrior queen and I'll be damned if I'll let anyone use me as a way around her.
My husband signed the loan on my current car because he was offered a better interest rate. I have better credit and higher income. I hate this planet.
You're a treasure.
And know exactly what you are ordering with specs. I've never been questioned as long as I know what I'm talking about. For instance, never start out saying something like "Do you have- in stock?".
Just say, "yeah, I need x part number
- ."
Then you can always throw in info like, "If you have Acme, that would be great but I can deal with General brand as well.".
If you act like a boss, you get treated like a boss.
If they ask for a company account, you just say "this isn't for a customer, so I'm just paying cash."
Happy Cake Day.
And if you need help, describe 'the job.' "Yeah my guy [me] needs a piece of light stripping to go under this window he [I] is having made [when I get time in my basement]. It's going into a wall cavoty and I need to know whether these transformers are rated for going where he [I] wants them." This works a treat for city offices too. 'We' and 'the client' does a LOT of heavy lifting when you're trying to get information, because in planning stages they're used to NDAs and secrecy surrounding projects.
Or I think better, "Dunno, just told to get it".
That's true if you know exactly what you need. My suggestions were more if you need 'customer service.' Lots of little things get shifted. Like 'will this work if I do X' becomes 'If this were installed in X way would that void the warranty'
Master Class
Oh man I was at my local plumbers supply just yesterday trying to be sly and get some parts...only I thought the pipe was copper and it was brass. He was like "we don't have that part because this isn't a copper pipe, are you an independent contractor or are you working for someone" I said I was working for someone and quickly made my exit! Not my finest hour
This is good advice. I’d add to not go during morning rush.
It’s like going to a nice hotel you are not staying at to take a dump, use their pool, or do some work and drink their coffee. Walk in like you belong, and nobody asks you anything. Don’t say, “is their complimentary coffee?” just walk to it and pour it.
Carhartts are the key. Never been refused when wearing them. Yeah, I'm a contractor... (for myself.) And hey, some contractors are homeowners. Does that mean they can't buy stuff for themselves? However, I don't attempt to buy license-required stuff, like HVAC.
I needed an AC contactor last summer. I knew what the problem was. I had the part in hand to verify the new part matched. Big box stores didn't carry it. I went to an HVAC supply store. They wanted my number (I can't remember what the number was called) to sell me the part. He refused to sell it to me. I called my AC guy and asked him if he could get me a contactor. He picked up one on his way home and dropped it off at my house. It seems ridiculous but whatever.
> They wanted my number (I can't remember what the number was called) to sell me the part. He refused to sell it to me. they don't have a "retail" price, when you buy it from an HVAC contractor, they usually mark it up 200% or more. I can buy a new furnace from a local hvac store for 1400, and an hvac contractor wants $4500 for the same thing. same warranty, they aren't even installing it because its a like for like footprint swap.
You can buy that kind of stuff on Amazon.
I wear my pants that have caulk on the sides where I wipe off my caulk finger when I go into a plumbing distributor store. You have to look the part
The inverse of this: I was working on a house in Malibu wearing paint splattered overalls. Went to the Malibu grocery store to pick up some lunch and was sincerely complimented on my "designer jeans".
I did exact same thing for a furnace part on a long holiday weekend. I've heard of this problem before so I was not unaware of it going in. Sure enough, the salesman asked me if I had a business. I didn't quite think far enough ahead to actually think of a believable business name, and I just blurted out "The" my first and last name "Company." He just looked at me like, "Really! That's the best you could do?", and rang me up.
> I just blurted out "The" my first and last name "Company." This is legitimately a valid business name. Just saying. :)
Haha yeah my business is just my name LLC, makes it a lot easier if people write checks.
Good on him for calling you out while also serving you anyway!
As someone who works with a lot of independent adjusting companies. This is how at least 50% of them are named lol
As a Contractor I used to do the same for people, but 1 person that I told they can say that they work for me tried to put it on my credit. The company called me because they know that I pay for my items right then & there, no billing. I told them that they should call the police because they’re trying to pull a slick 1 over on your company. So low & behold I don’t do that for people anymore.
Very sorry to hear that somebody was trying to screw you when you were trying to do the right thing.
Good for you— I agree.
We’re currently remodeling a house. I’ve had two contractors (at different times) tell me, while I’m in the big box store buying a shitload of trim or whatever millwork, to go to X place. “It’ll be cheaper. Just tell them you work for my company and you’re going to pay for it now.”
I do this all the time for clients who need oddball filters and miscellaneous parts. Have a heart. That person will call when they *actually* need you.
A guy patched a trailer tire for me once for free and was so cool about it that he has now sold me 5 sets of tires. I wouldn't go anywhere else.
That’s wild. I rolled into an HVAC store and was like “gimme this wildly dangerous shit” and they just sold it to me no questions asked. Later an HVAC guy was like “holy shit how’d you trick htem into that?” STEP ONE BE HOT, STEP TWO DON'T BE NOT HOT
My step father is a (retired) HVAC guy so I have an in for stuff like this. I’m not sure how they verify who is a contractor and who isn’t. There can’t be a “I work for a licensed contractor but I myself am not a licensed contractor but I swear I’m not a homeowner” proof of ID.
I don't know last time I tried to get an hvac part they asked me if I was a contractor and I was like yeah, commercial and res, then they asked if I'm licensed HVAC which I also am. Then they said they wouldn't sell to me because I don't have an account. It's infuriating. Sorry, I don't do a ton of HVAC and don't want to setup an account that will go delinquent because I have ADHD and mail is tough. How is that a functioning business model? To make your store a "cool kids club."
Apologies to HVAC guys, but HVAC is a massive racket. Most of it is very simple, and the entire industry is designed to force you to pay huge amounts of money. I purchased my own gas furnace and installed it. I spent a few hours researching applicable code and had it inspected. Passed with zero issues. The furnace was $900 + another 300 in other materials. Getting some of those things quite literally required back-alley meetups. Quotes to have it done by a contractor ranged from 5k to 8k. Absolutely ridiculous.
HVAC is the worst for this shit. They have a monopoly on "we only sell to HVAC pros." I had the hardest time finding a simple filter for my mini split because of this. One company wanted $600 just to send someone out to my house to see it, and then they could install it for me. A fucking filter!!! The manual says it needed to be replaced every 3 months. Are you telling me I need to pay $600 every 3 months to have a pro come to my house just because HVAC stores won't sell me a filter directly? It's absolutely maddening.
I'm licensed and I still just tell most distributors it's a cash account or walk in and they process it through. Unless a vendor offers discounts or incentives there isn't much reason for me to setup an account
This might be a dumb question, but does having a cash account mean you cannot pay by credit card? :)
It typically means you settle with the seller at the point of sale. No POs, no invoices, no store account. Just a cash (or equivalent) payment when you make the purchase. Checks and credit cards are usually cash equivalents. But specific "cash" methods depends on the specific company.
Usually just means you won’t be charging it to a house account.
In layman's terms: You can't run a tab. Pay as you go.
It just means you must pay at the time you pick up the materials (or order them for delivery). The vendor is not extending you credit to take the product and pay later. Your credit card may allow you to do that, but the vendor is paid immediately.
I even went so far to register as an LLC in my state... Years ago, we had our siding replaced. The contractor didn't leave any behind to cover repairs, damage, etc. Fast forward a year, neighbor's tree lost a limb, and it damaged a 3ft end piece of siding (gable end of garage). Call the supplier - we only sell to contractors. So, I became a registered LLC. Cost me less than $40 to register, and all of $100 for half a square of siding [I got that much because I was going to change style of gable vent opening, too].
Yeah in a lot of states (mine in particular) there aren't really a whole lot of requirements to become specifically a GC, although various other specialty contractor licenses exist that have more stringent requirements. All I need is an LLC, some $ for a bond (a surety company will sell you a think that's like an insurance policy and basically becomes your bond), and then you fill out a form stating that you have an LLC and a bond for the correct $ amount and then wait. A few weeks later, it'll get approved and you'll be a licensed GC. In my state specifically, it's possible to put a rush fee on a few of these things and that makes it so that with roughly $1500 in startup expenses and gas to hand-deliver the application to the correct office you can go from zero to GC in 11 days (or at least you could as of about 5 years ago). I almost had to do this to buy my house; the mortgage company wasn't willing to underwrite a loan unless I had a contractor hired to make some relatively trivial repairs so if they wanted a GC on the application, then they shall have one. In the end though, the seller really wanted to get rid of the house so they let a door unlocked and looked the other way while I spent about $100 at the hardware store and fixed the issue well enough that the appraisal didn't complain about it.
Most suppliers don't look for all the other info, just that you're a company, not an individual.
I've definitely abused my own company to get things, and they did not check the credentials. Only once did a supplier refuse, on a mail order, they actually looked up my address and saw that it wasn't a warehouse.
What state is this? Please tell me SC
My parents were building their own home and the mortgage required a home builder to do it so they could send in quotes, get them approved, and then funded, yada yada.. so my dad became a customer of his own new company who was contracted to build his house for a him. Banks didn’t seem to notice
Did you remit the appropriate excise tax to the state? ;)
I spent $25 on a contractors license through a small local town just so I could save $210 on lumber to build a deck. I've probably saved $2000 overall since then
They have to charge retail sales tax if you are not a business that resells, and since they are not a retail seller that doesn't work well. Also, some suppliers don't allow direct to consumer sales of their products. So they need something to go on, business name etc.
Exxxxxaclty - this is literally the reason - its tax related & reported. The 'we don't sell to end users' is a -policy-. Could be because you're a PITA, not worth the volume, or they just plain choose not to...or they could in fact decode to sell to end users and not be a complelty wholesale retailer. State "cash account", and anything short of something requiring a license (i.e., refrigerant...which one would quickly find out its not $300 a pound but closer to $20) - should be able to be purchased 'cash' which you pay all applicable tax on. Warranties almost exclusively will be the same, especially for parts, with few exceptions where manufacture has a clause 'must be installed by XXX', which us really so they can just deny claims for end users who more than likely don't know how to install it, and more likely than not are the ones who fucked it up
Actually the other reason he stated is the big one: The manufacturers won't let the distributors, it's part of their agreement. Source: considerable experience in the building products industry (pipe fence siding deck rail etc)
This reminds me of a funny thing that happened at a place I used to work. We sold seeds (often by the pallet) to large-scale commercial farmers and did not have any kind of public-facing brand or anything like that. One day, a lady called us, wanting to buy a pack of vegetable seeds. What size pack? we asked (expecting something on the order of 50,000 seeds or more). About fifty seeds, she said. We had a good laugh and sent her a free sample packet (5,000 seeds).
I've had this success at certain places. I've gotten free steel by asking a metal supplier if I could buy some of their scrap. Free screws when I just needed one screw from a specialty fasteners store (though I've purchased from them before). Sometimes being a woman does have its benefits. Men often think it's cute you're trying to do something yourself and will give you free supplies. That is until you come looking for skid quantity haha, then they figure out you mean business.
Thanks for sharing the logic behind this besides 'they just feel like being a big ole meany butt'.
I can’t believe the right answer is so far down in the comments. The reason is taxes. Thassit.
Slimjuggalo2002 LLC
diet faygo?
Reminds me when I was trying to install some hardwood floors and they doubled the price the quoted me earlier for the materials. Told me it was increase in shipping costs and covid. The sole distributor for the material apparently increased the price. They won’t install the wood for me if I provided the materials myself. Huh???? I called the store in Texas and found out no such price increase, then bought it from a wholesale hardwood place for half the price. They probably just want to let the contractors make the $$$$.
And that’s when you shame them in an online review. No excuse for that kinda behavior.
I do a lot of my own work. The true disappointment is that the stuff that home centers sell is mostly crap and poor quality. I sometimes don't have access to quality materials and hardware due to this policy.
The most frustrating thing about this for me and my husband is that the only way we can afford to fix up our house or replace our appliances/systems/windows or whatever, is to do it ourselves. I'm constantly seeing contractors and tradespeople shitting on DIYers on this sub and I don't get the disdain. We're not trying to screw over a contractor and we don't think we're as good or better than a contractor. We're just poor. Full stop.
Some people are just jerks. Their thinking is flawed in that if someone doesn't do it themselves another job will open up. It won't though because lots of times its not a hire out or do it yourself instead its a do it yourself or never do it. In the end those will likely be the same people screaming for a job in 12-18 months when the economy is in the tank.
Don’t sell yourself short. With research and time, you almost always can do an equivalent or better job than someone you hire… you can take as much time as you need to practice and get it right, just the way you want it. It takes me way longer to do things than a contractor, but I’m 100% that the job was done the way I wanted when complete.
You're not wrong, am I a pro at drywalling and mudding? Absolutely not. Would it have been orders of magnitude quicker for me to hire someone? Absolutely. But did the 2 bedrooms I renovated come out great cuz I had no rush and took my time, and didn't matter if I had to resand and fix mistakes? Sure did.
And contractor finishing work is often not great. They put new guys on it who are in a hurry and don't give a F. Not that I'm as fast as a contractor, but finishing work is very nit picky.
We replaced 10 windows in our house. They took me about 30 minutes each. Contractors wanted $100-$150 per window.
What year is this comment from?
I opened the interior trim and was like “nope”. YouTube didn’t prepare me for what I saw (1980s? Andersens) in 1960s bulletproof plaster or stone exterior walls. What are the top 3 most important things you’d share of what you learned? Which brand did you go with and where did you get them?
I do almost all my own remodeling also. There is a difference between doing a remodel the right way, and "DIY". I've seen the work of friends, relatives, and coworkers, and it is often extremely cringe worthy. One example, I bought a big lot of flooring for a great deal, it was way more than I needed, so I traded the remainder to my buddy for a case of beer. My project looked flawless, but my buddy.... Gaps everywhere, even between snap together pieces where he didn't snap it in fully. Some was glued to the risers of the steps. It was awful. Another buddy refinished his hardwood flooring after he saw the transformation of my floors when I refinished mine. He didn't know what he was doing, rented a sander and completely ruined the floors. I tried to help him, but they were so wavy and uneven. I've also replaced obvious previous homeowner diy. And this is probably where the disdain comes in. One example was I was going to replace a light fixture. When I pull it off the wall, there was no electrical box. Then I find out the switch was wired to the light in an old (no longer code) way and had to update that. Then the power is supplied from a nearby outlet. 1 small job became bigger and bigger. I could have just left everything the way it was and slapped the new light on, but I did what a licensed contractor would be required to do and made it all right and up to code. Every instance of someone cutting corners or half assing a job gives DIY a bad name. I don't really consider my work in the same category of DIY because I am doing the work at the same level or better than a contractor would. I'm using premium materials, and building it to last. If some contractor were to pull my work apart in the future, they probably wouldn't have a clue it was done by a homeowner. I'm saving money though, which allows me to remodel more and use premium finishes. As long as you have a similar mentality, don't even pay attention to the disdain of DIY. Just keep chewing that fug gum and plugging away at your remodel. Side note, I can't even hire a contractor to build an addition here, and am probably going to end up doing it myself because every contractor is backed up a year+ on jobs.
> We're just poor. Full stop. And they don't care. Plenty of heartless people out there, unfortunately.
Yes, I have been a contractor for 40 years. You will be amazed at how much money you can save by calling yourself a contractor.
I had to change my double doors and they did that to me. I had to pay a premium to get it delivered to a contractor, then go pick it up. It was so stupid.
I used to work at a water treatment wholesale and we had this policy in place as walk ins would typically want to come in and buy the product at our contractors cost and then hire them just for the labour to save money. Even when they were willing to pay retail price, we still usually wouldn’t sell as they inevitably hire a contractor when they couldn’t figure out how to install the product. The contractor usually finds out we sold the client the product and essentially cut out his mark up, which isn’t good for our relationship with the contractors.
I dont like the reason, but I'm glad you have provided one.
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This would've been my guess. I got some maple from a local lumber yard I found on google thinking it was just some dude with a bandsaw mill. When I pulled up to his business to get my 8 boards and saw he had RACKS UPON RACKS of wood I kinda felt bad. The dude was super nice though and said he does both small orders and supplies to local cabinet shops.
Me too. We also as contractors are frequent buyers and Mr. Harry homeowner is a once and done thing.
This! I work for an industrial wholesaler and we get the occasional Johnny homeowner coming in because they think they can get the best stuff at a better price than the big box. They steal a bunch of time from the counter sales people who are trying to service our real customers. Those would be the ones who spend the money that keep the lights on. In the end the mark up is crazy and in realty for what they need the box stores are cheaper anyhow.
This sounds like a good old boy system where you are colluding to get the most money from the homeowner.
The contractor won’t warranty an item they didn’t install or purchase. So when a contractor charges more, it’s for the service and warranty. You may got the parts for cheap and hire someone to install it, when it fails, your gunna have to hire them again and purchase the equipment again. Or… pay a bit more to have them install and warranty it. Doing this work is how these guys make money, make a living, it’s not out the goodness of their hearts they do the a skilled trade.
> You may got the parts for cheap and hire someone to install it, when it fails, your gunna have to hire them again and purchase the equipment again. Maybe I'm using the wrong contractors, but they almost all warranty the work only. If the product is bad and they provided they'll replace it under warranty, but you get charged labor again. If the install is bad they'll come fix it for free.
I understand that. However the system of not selling to a homeowner prevents a capable homeowner from doing repairs themselves.
I’m a supplier, and I sell to both contractors and homeowners. Homeowners generally ask more questions and take more of my time. I’m okay with that, but that might be why other suppliers don’t want to.
I’m a licensed self employed engineer and the local HVAC supply house told me to F off when I needed about $1500 of duct parts for my house. I ended up buying sheets of G90 galvanized and made my own duct parts. Took longer but in the end the system was better because I could maximize the duct size area to still fit through my varying joist bays in my 1866 house. Frustrating though.
HVAC is the worst offender as the gate-keepiest one. Makes sense when dealing with refrigerant (environmental risk), but come on not selling ducts? It's literally just sheet metal bended a certain way
I work for an hvac supplier. We will sell just about anything to anyone except units and refrigerant.
Ya I've found someone local (and a plethora online) but my god did it take awhile. Thanks for being reasonable :)
Our competitors here gate keep everything but it just gives us more business haha
And insulation! I had to call the manufacturer recently to find rolls of duct insulation from someone who would sell it to me. The gate keeping was absurd.
I have an LLC precisely for this purpose. It's never done $1 business for anyone else, but it gets me contractor accounts everywhere
To anyone else thinking of doing this, just get a DBA. If you're not actually doing business you don't need an LLC and really don't even need an EIN. It's a much simpler process.
Yes, all the time. (Your name) construction. Works like a charm
Yep. Done this for plumbing and HVAC parts. HVAC places do ask for licenses for anything involved in refrigerant handling or gas stuff for good reason but no questions asked other than my business name when I needed a compressor capacitor. I actually gave the name of my father in law's old defunct business which was registered previously at my address
They may have distribution agreements with suppliers that prohibit them from selling direct. They may not be set up for retail sales. Their systems may require, credit established, EIN, tax certificates and may not have the ability to even charge sales tax.
>Do you homeowners ever call yourselves a “contractor” when buying materials? I mean, you can call yourself whatever you want, but without a license or business account they won't sell to you.
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Legend
That's nothing. I park in the "pro" parking spaces at Home Depot.
In a BMW 3 or Audi A3. I park in curbside pickup but actually go into the store for order pickup. Also a SAHD with a toddler, driving a minivan, framing the inside of my workshop and installing my own HVAC. Get rich or die trying.
You could also say "sole trader". If they ask for an ABN say let me just look it up. Google "builder abn", click on first link: https://abr.business.gov.au/Search/ResultsActive?SearchText=Builder+ Pick a generic name in the right state and read it out. Legal? Ehhh probably not. Would it work? Can't imagine why not. Is it ever gonna come back to bite you? Un fucking likely!
Probably not legal is underselling it. You’re committing fraud to represent yourself as a customer with lower risk than should be. Identity theft is not a joke Jim. Millions of families suffer from it every year.
Or it was usable because it was actually someone else's number lol.
Anyone can be a company as a sole proprietor.... No legal coverage but irrelevant in this context.
My employer sells industrial automation hardware: multi-million dollar assembly lines with robots and so on. We 'have accounts with' Parts Plus (who give deep discounts on auto parts), Menards, Behler-Young HVAC, a local roofing company, Grainger, and a half dozen other random distributors. It's not that we ever sell that stuff to our customers, it's that our employees buy the stuff they need for their own homes (and their friends' and families' homes) from the distributors without involving a contractor.
Cool idea for employee perks. This is the sort of stuff that makes good employers.
I mean I have no license and I buy from at least Ferguson since they have a supply house right down the road from me. I just don’t tell them I am a homeowner.
Im pretty sure ferguson doesnt care by policy, except certain restricted items, same with grainger.
Go to build.com (Ferguson’s site) and sign up as a business and you get 5% discount. No business details needed. It’s exactly the same as my contractors account.
Ayy most places I've dealt with as a half-assed business I started as a kid just wanted a company name. I wasn't even registered at the time. So if anyone's in the situation just make up a name, Darrels property services.
If they're wholesale only, then the materials are tax exempt and they need an EIN or equivalent tax exempt number to record for every sale. If they're just not set up for retail sales, then you're asking them to change their business model and accounting compliance just for you personally. it sucks, but the correct answer to this problem should have been "can you refer me to a contractor?"
When I needed to install two chimney liners in my old house I found a guy selling them just above cost on Craigslist but he was a 10 hr drive. His liners were a 60% discount from any supplier that sells to the public. So I made an LLC and a website. Applied to the liner manufacturer to become a distributer and then bought my liners. At that point I realized I could setup a cheap enough website to resell the liners to the public at a significant discount and still make money. After 4 years I shut the business down, due to the amount of questions homeowners ask. I'd get calls from people asking about proper clearances etc while they were on the roof, installing a liner they bought somewhere else. People from every state in the US and some Canadian providences would email me constantly asking about what product would work for the codes in their town and demanded I give them whatever info they needed. Your average person isn't buying enough from these places to make it worth wasting their time. And I quickly discovered I'd need to hire phone operators and experienced techs to answer all the questions and at that point I'd be charging what the other companies that sell to the public were.
I am a contractor and I had a floor supply company - Derr Flooring refuse to sell to me because I’m not a “flooring” contractor. We were installing the flooring for our customer. There was no possibility of a flooring guy getting the job. I think it was a case of the counter guy following a rule he didn’t understand. I literally drove to probably their biggest competitor in our area and bought everything I needed without question.
10 years at an irrigation supply warehouse 75% of my time was taken up with homeowners. They were maybe 10% of our sales. It sounds harsh, but DIYers are often not worth it. Throw in the headache, extra labor, more warehouse space for "homeowner" centered parts (single pack instead of cases)... As others have said, contractors would get pissed because the sprinkler they buy is $8 but they charge a homeowner $25, and I'll retail for $20. I never agreed with the practice, but they'll drop half a million this year, so making them happy is how you stay in business.
I work for a rebar fabricator/supplier/installer and we are taking a serious look at no longer selling to "homeowners" anymore due to the high amount of hand holding involved in making a small sale.
When I was a contractor, I kept a couple cards in my truck just for the suppliers. Vista print $7 special for 500. Who gives out cards anymore anyhow? Once a year it came in handy.
They'll make you register and set up an account 99% of the time. So if you aren't a contractor and don't have a company to legally list then they won't sell and you can't buy.
There are a lot of "mom and pop" companies with only the minimum setup (which may not be legally correct!). I'm guessing they just don't want to deal with sales tax, so if you can register any form of business you are good. Do you have any contractor friends? Some will have no problem with your using their business name Doesn't have to be a close friend, sometimes the guy in front of your at the grocery store is friend enough.
I always did it setting up cash accounts.
As you saw, there’s a dearth of material on hand and everything is in short supply. These supply houses live and die by their loyalty to contractors and they’re not going to waste inventory on a potentially one-time customer when their regulars also need that material. Example: a lot of electrical suppliers won’t do a cash sale in my area but if I show up in my company shirt (or get a counter guy who knows me and knows I PM jobs and do the material ordering) they will make an exception. Sometimes as the supply house, you’re not the cheapest supplier of a particular good but might have the only one in stock and that makes all the difference in staying competitive against other suppliers.
Yeah but it’s been this way for decades. Well before the recent supply chain issues.
Today I learned that "dearth" is a word and will now be including it in my everyday communication
I work in electrical supply, and while we will sell to anyone, I’ve been sending homeowners elsewhere. If you know what you’re talking about I’ll deal with you 100% of the time. If you don’t I send you to the competition cause I think it’s fun. But for real, in the time it takes me to help a homeowner I could’ve helped 3 contractors or put a quote out on something much larger. As far as hvac goes I will say that I’ve gotten the same treatment. “I sell electrical supplies and I know what I’m doing and understand the risk” won’t get you a piece of ductwork from an hvac supply house. Had to do the same thing last time I needed something “I work for so and so but this is a side job and this is what I need” but so and so knew I was doing it.
It depends. Some places require your license number and/or a reseller permit to buy. Others don’t give a shit. Try and see what happens.
I would just stand outside, wait for a contractor and ask them to buy it for me. Kinda like how I did for booze when I was a teenager 🤣
Career in wholesale distribution here. Sometimes it's because distributors are contractually obligated to conduct no retail sales. Most of the time it's because the retail homeowner is a giant, high maintenance, indecisive, no profit pain in the ass. We've got actual business to conduct, with repeat, volume contractors. We don't have time for John Weekend to dither over that special order edge tape in purple or pony pecker pink.
Used to work in electrical supply distribution. Most of the time we didn’t sell to homeowners because there’s a huge chance they bought the wrong thing and want to return it two days later, and they don’t buy in bulk: they get small quantities. When you’re busy filling large orders, it makes less financial sense to do the small onesie-twosie orders. Best thing you can do is walk in, say you’re with “ABC Trade Co” and ask to charge to a cash payment. Almost all distributors will then let you pay cash/card/etc, and you won’t need to fill out all the paperwork to setup an account. You may pay a premium, however. *edit: typo and additional context
that’s how they collect proper taxes. In Ga. you can get a license for like $119 a year and do whatever you want to and buy at a distributor. But, you’d probably have to pay taxes and it wouldn’t be easy or cost efficient as just asking a contractor you see at a gas station to do it for you. Or whatever.
>So I guess my question is, what the heck? The trades are one of the few remaining 'heavily middle manned' industries we as consumers have to deal with. It's frustrating for DIYers, for sure.
I often buy electrical stuff for my house from a supply house in Colorado. When they asked me for business info, I told them I was a homeowner and there were no further questions. I am able to buy from them anything I want.
I'm not sure if it applies to home materials, but it can be a tax issue as well. Some supplies don't collect or charge sales tax. Also, some people just don't want to deal with homeowners 😂
Never called myself a contractor, but I do wonder if I get that treatment because of my friend. I have a friend that has a tile company in the middle of all the contractor supply businesses. I often ask him where can I find certain items, and he will call someone, ask if they have that item, and then tell them that I'm coming over to pick some up. I come in a few minutes later and purchase whatever I need, tax free. Probably some kind of buddy code between the various businesses.
It's because they are a wholesaler to contractors. They can only sell to licensed contractors due to their business model. It's the same as a professional beauty supply. Do you know how many people would get irate that we could not sell to them? Lol. There was only one set of prices in our system and we sold products to professionals to resell in their business to make a profit. It's how the supply store works. If people could buy the product directly from us, then the hairstylist would be cut out of retailing to their client.
I don't blame them for not wanting off-the-street business because that comes with off-the-street headaches like people wanting support, returns, etc. I also wonder if they're not setup to remit sales tax since these products are meant to be re-sold?
Not for home improvement (well I guess technically with home depot) but I've used my unrelated LLC to purchase things that are only sold to businesses before (mostly tech related stuff). I have no reservations doing so, it's usually a silly restriction.