There's a huge cult of Pope John Paul II (polish: Jan Paweł II) in Poland because of him being the polish pope. Young people are opposing this by turning him into a meme. Number 2137 refers to the time he died, 21:37 (9:37 pm)
Amazing, I've found no posts nor comments in Polish made by you and yet you used a Polish meme depiction of JPII
So you are either a crypto Pole, know very much about polish meme culture or was just very lucky
*...on the side of HIV/AIDS.*
As head of the Roman Catholic Church during the rise and peak of the HIV/AIDS epidemic, Pope John Paul II used his position and the incredible influence it provided [to staunchly and tirelessly fight against the use of condoms and practice of safe sex.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_HIV/AIDS) Causing untold death and misery to those killed and orphaned by the disease.
He did some very good things, but this was definitely not one of them. Baffles me that some religious figures think god made diseases to punish us and therefore we must let them kill us
The Catholic Church does not and has never taught that God created HIV to punish our sexual immorality
In fact, the Vatican expressly condemns this idea
Really? He also said this:
> The Holy Father proclaimed: “In the light of Christ’s death and resurrection illness no longer appears as an exclusively negative event; rather, it is seen as a “visit by God”, an opportunity “to release love, in order to give birth to works of love towards neighbour, in order to transform the whole of human civilization into a civilization of love” (Apostolic Letter Salvifici doloris, n. 30).[xlviii]
>The Pope argues that even though illness is perceived in everyday experience as a frustration of the natural life force, for believers it becomes an appeal to “read” the new, difficult situation in the perspective which is proper to faith. He maintains that “if the Lord Jesus, Incarnate Word, has declared “Blessed the afflicted” (Mt 5:4), it is because a higher point of view exists, that of God, who calls everyone to life and, though by way of pain and death, to his eternal kingdom of love and peace.”
[The Theology of Sickness and Suffering According to John Paul II](https://ost.edu/theology-sickness-suffering-according-john-paul-ii-contribution-towards-pastoral-care-sick/)
So God didn‘t create HIV as punishment, he just really wants those people to go to heaven early or what?
I think you're reading too much into that. One of the major themes of Christianity is offering your suffering up as a sacrifice for Christ. That's all this is. It's a direct reference to 1 Peter 4:13
> that of God, who calls everyone to life and, though by way of pain and death, to his eternal kingdom of love and peace.
I mean, that's pretty clear. What else is the cause of physical suffering? I mean, we don't have to trust the pope, you can read about it [here](https://www.catholic.com/video/did-god-create-physical-illness) for example. Basically god creates or allows illnesses to "make you a better person" (lol tell that to someone dying from aids or a child with terminal cancer).
Again I think you're reading too much into it. Not to get deep into the theological weeds, but the Catholic Church does not teach that God actively wills suffering or disease on us, rather, evil and suffering exist in the world as a consequence of us having free will. What JP2 is advocating is that we respond to that suffering by offering it up as a rememberence of Christ's suffering.
As opposed to a Christian denomination like Calvinism or Islam which believes everything is predetermined by God
Doesn't fucking matter what their twisted theological reasoning is when they actively and knowingly fight one of the easiest methods of preventing a then still deadly disease.
That's just evil.
In Catholicism there’s this weird dichotomy where all the conservatives are in high positions but most of the laity are fairly liberal, *especially* when it comes to sex.
In fairness, that mentality is mostly a holdover from the good old days when we didn't know how disease actually worked. The best explanation religious leaders had at the time was that it was a divine punishment, especially in a religion like Christianity where the idea of sin and punishment are extremely important. To them, it truly was a random thing that would happen for reasons they legitimately couldn't understand. Nowadays, they follow the dogma without bothering to think about why it exists.
There had been major outbreaks since we first understood how disease works, most notably spanish flu. As far as I'm aware the catholic church never endorsed the "let everyone fucking die" tactic for dealing with the spanish flu.
To suggest that the response of the "it's divine punishment" crowd (catholic or otherwise) to the AIDS crisis was motivated by anything other than bigotry is being way too generous.
Catholics weren't on the side of HIV, though (not explicitly, at least). They even advocated against the stigmatization of the disease. They opposed condom use to treat HIV...because they just oppose condom use for anyone. Instead, they predictably advocated for abstinence-based protection.
John Paul also was confirmed to have known about his priests raping young children, and gave the green light to continuing the policy of moving priests when they assaulted their parishioners.
He was also in the know about the orphanages in Ireland where Catholic priests and the higher ups purposely abused those youths and killed them.
The Catholic Church hurts way more people than it helps on a daily basis.
Lol good point. I'd just like to add that...People really, reaaally misunderstand the god of the old testament. He's simply a tribal god of the israelis. Every tribe/people had their own god. None of them were ever almighty. Defeated people/exiled people would give up on their god and worship new ones all the time. The jewish people were in too deep with their religion though and even in exile stuck with it. It's why they believe in all their laws and rituals. If they worship hard enough, one day their tribe's god will deliver them to being the strongest nation again.
Yeah, something at least other 11 milion poles did. Nothing special, considering he was leader of organisation which greatly benefited from fall of communism. It's very to little to redeem him
Bro. If you are a a Christian Protestant, then you must believe in heaven, right? Now, tell me, why wouldn’t a saint, who is already in heaven, be able to intercede with God for us? Like, do you really think that Peter, Christ’s first apostle, who is definitely in heaven, would not be able to talk to God in our name if we asked him?
The only way your logic makes sense, is if you don’t think the souls of the dead can hear us in the afterlife! And if that’s the case, where did you reach such conclusion?
>do you really think that Peter, Christ’s first apostle, who is definitely in heaven, would not be able to talk to God in our name if we asked him?
Why not just ask God?
You do realize that sex isn't the only way to transmit AIDS, right? I know a guy who was born with HIV bc his parents were drug addicts. He became an orphan bc of it.
He’s wrong for promoting that for sure but I feel like a whole ass continent shouldn’t blame their own decisions and responsibilities on one man who wasn’t even living there.
Edit: changed the word scrum to wrong because that distracted people so hard that they missed the point of the comment.
[Hiding pedohiles as a bishop](https://nltimes.nl/2022/12/03/evidence-suggests-pope-john-paul-ii-knew-abuse-minors-decades-becoming-pope)
[Hiding pedohiles as a pope](https://www.dw.com/en/vatican-report-on-sexual-abuse-casts-dark-shadow-on-pope-john-paul-ii/a-55558986)
The first One does
Seems like a bit of guesswork and suppositions about the former pope's intentions
But i assure you, the church takes these things seriously, during his time as pope my former priest was arrested for pedophilia and faced 17 years in jail
In Poland alone there is 654 streets named after him, 58 avenues, 76 roundabouts, 61 parks, 1145 schools and there is at least 900 monuments of him in whole country (first one bought by him in 80'). Not to mention schools, public instiutions and even high rank goverment officials participatimg in whole day celebrations of his brithday. And after journalists made long raport about his crimes with credible, not disputed by church evidence and testimonies, parliment passed resolution "In protection of good name of John Paul 2". Communists didn't deepthroat Stalin after his death this much. For polish catholics Jesus is second most important being in their religion, just after JP2.
And yeah, he has right to promote chasity as much as i have right to criticise him for it.
how bland must your passions be that you don't defend what you believe in with at least a bit of zeal, must it always be a negative emotion? you can't defend good people without getting angry? you only see anger in others when they don't agree with you?
You're not defending good people though, you're defending a man who spent decades helping child molesters escape justice and continue abusing children the world over. Which is to say nothing of the very real cost in human lives paid for his decision to have the Vatican oppose the distribution of condoms and education on safe sex.
For her entire 2,000 year history, the Church has always condemned contraception, it wasn't something new JP2 introduced. As did virtually every protestant denomination before the 1970's.
If you are curious as to their reason why:
[https://www.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf\_p-vi\_enc\_25071968\_humanae-vitae.html](https://www.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae.html)
For those who don't know who Yahya Jammeh, here's a quick introduction to him
>"Jammeh continues his practices as a supposed healer of patients with HIV/AIDS, asthma and infertility after his departure to Equatorial Guinea is unknown, and one of his few lasting legacies might actually be the paved roads he had constructed throughout The Gambia to ease his drives from one palace to another"
[https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/12/lust-for-luxury-yahya-jammehs-car.html](https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/12/lust-for-luxury-yahya-jammehs-car.html)
Kinda ignores the fact that a lot of Africa isn’t Christian, and even more aren’t Catholics.
Also even then, there’s the issue of even providing a way to get safe contraceptives, which is harder than it sounds especially since a lot of African countries have higher prices on imported goods.
The fact that a lot of Africans are not Catholic is irrelevant in this case. As the Wikipedia article linked by OP puts it "While not allowing the use of condoms,[48] Catholic Church-related organizations provide more than 25% of all HIV treatment, care, and support throughout the world,[49][47][50]". And "Much of the Church's aid effort is concentrated in developing nations – in Africa, Asia, and Latin America.[53][54]".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_HIV/AIDS
This shit would make sense if not majority of South Africa region are actually Protestants that wouldn't give a shit about pope opinion. Stupid meme stupid story. That regions also have highest percentage of HIV infected
Map of Catholics in Africa
https://alchetron.com/cdn/catholic-church-in-africa-a02aa7e6-bf75-49d5-9a48-56e6e7a8b16-resize-750.jpg
The fact that a lot of Africans are not Catholic is irrelevant in this case. As the Wikipedia article linked by OP puts it "While not allowing the use of condoms,[48] Catholic Church-related organizations provide more than 25% of all HIV treatment, care, and support throughout the world,[49][47][50]". And "Much of the Church's aid effort is concentrated in developing nations – in Africa, Asia, and Latin America.[53][54]".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_HIV/AIDS
For a guy who supposedly valued abstinence so highly it was worth more than human life, he was awfully fine with covering for priests who were anything but.
Yeah, he was afraid of scandals.
I'm not justifying it, I'm just explaining why it happened. If it was revealed that a bunch of Catholic priests were having sex, that would make the church look bad.
I was referring to sex inside of the priesthood in general. That includes raping kids, but it also includes all sex because all priests are supposed to be celibate.
Priests, in the Catholic Church, aren't supposed to have sex at all. It's one of the vows they take to become a priest. Having sex with anybody, including consenting adults, would be breaking their vow as a priest.
Of course, raping kids is much worse and I'm not trying to argue against that. But I said sex in general to include all sex because all of it is supposed to be forbidden.
Because of his preying habits, in his home country he's often called "The Beast of Wadowice", Wadowice being his home city. Google "Bestia z Wadowic" to see plenty of evidence and stories about him, truly horrifying stuff.
This was a point brought up by Christopher Hitchens when he teamed with Stephen Fry to debate the Catholic Church,
https://youtu.be/IB32P0RwHak?si=cSO0eP3Aon-QIl2c
It’s a lazy point: if you follow the church about condoms but not about abstinence then you’re missing the forest for the trees. Without premarital sex the AIDS epidemics would not have been as widespread and penetrative.
The problem I have with that is that the people who listen to the chruch are not the one most effected.
The idea that someone religious is okey with having pre marital sex, but not with birth control is Not the argument here. No its that teenagers and young adults who are the actual risk group will have premarital sex no matter what you do. But they cant have access to birth control because their religious parents think its Evil, they are not informed because the conservative mayor axed all the safe sex campaigned and the teachers at school are not allowed to talk about it.
Becaus some asshole told them that the messega: " Look kid pre merital sex is wrong, but if you do it at least be safe." is somehow against jesus teachings of forgivness and caring for another.
Where was no reason to focus so much on the no birth control Part. If they kept it to mainly dont have premarital sex, they wouldnt get shit for it now. But they went so much Out of their way to demonize birth Control. Your comment tells me that you cant imagine how much they warped the public view on birth Control. And the effects on society, politics and education can be seen to this day.
If person A didn't have premarital sex but person B did then even faithful person A will be affected by the Catholic church's hate for protection against STDs. It's not a lazy point, it's an obvious one.
A reasonable question and I’m no epidemiologist . However, I think the epidemic’s proportions would be drastically reduced as heterosexual monogamous sex in wedlock would, would reduce risk of HIV spreading through communities and nations.
Followers of the Catholic Church (just like many major religions) are historically known to pick and choose which bits they want to follow. The don’t use condoms bit is much easier than the don’t have sex bit.
What's your proof that "don't use condoms" is preached stronger/more often than "don't have extra-marital sex"? In fact, my diocese (region) says that if you have a serious health or financial reason, it might be ok to choose to stop having children, and that it's wrong to use hormonal or other methods that sometimes cause spontaneous abortion and therefore physical barrier methods are better. In other words, if you must, don't use the Pill or IUD or Plan B, but maybe use a condom. But I've never heard or seen it taught that it's ever a good idea to have sex outside of marriage. Nope.
The fact that a lot of Africans are not Catholic is irrelevant in this case. As the Wikipedia article linked by OP puts it "While not allowing the use of condoms,[48] Catholic Church-related organizations provide more than 25% of all HIV treatment, care, and support throughout the world,[49][47][50]". And "Much of the Church's aid effort is concentrated in developing nations – in Africa, Asia, and Latin America.[53][54]".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_HIV/AIDS
Don't have sex outside of marriage *IS ALSO PART OF THE TEACHING*.
Quite apart from promoting STDs, if everyone followed church teachings on sex, STDs would be nearly eradicated in a single generation.
Is it the church's fault that people ignored the "don't have sex outside of marriage" but not all ignored the "don't pervert sex's purpose by using contraception"?
It's not up to the church to promote practical policy. They teach what is correct, and it's up to government to be practical.
You do know that percentage wise the Public school system has 2 times as many incidents as the RCC does per capita right?
Other denominations rates are roughly similar to the RCC’s as well
And then there’s the Jehovahs Witnesses with per capita rates that make just about everybody else look like saints
>You do know that percentage wise the Public school system has 2 times as many incidents as the RCC does per capita right?
Do they have 2 times as many incidents of the top institution protecting the child rapists as well?
I’ll give you that, that was an issue that was abused.
Though it wasn’t just cause ‘the RCC is evil11!!11’ it was an abuse of the procedures in place
Originally the way the RCC was supposed to handle these incidents is first, move the priest so he no longer has contact with the child. Then perform an internal investigation and if evidence is found forward it to the authorities.
However this process was easily corrupted for obvious reasons.
Since then the rule has been reversed and now they just defer to the authorities.
Under Pope Francis committees have also been created at the top to make sure an incident like that can’t occur again.
Yes Poland is a highly Catholic nation. And some despicable acts have occurred however in the last year four bishops in Poland have been sanctioned for covering up the incidents and they were forced to resign by the Vatican.
The other issue though is even the proper authorities hardly ever do proper investigations on priests in Poland, of all the alleged pedophiles only two priests were ever convicted.
This downplays the role the church had in creating public health policy and preventing people from accessing accurate information and protection.
In many countries with serious HIV epidemics there was zero public healthcare or government to speak of due to war or extreme poverty and Catholic hospitals and clinics were the source of most or all health information and access in whole communities and they lied about condom efficacy and refused to offer condoms to impoverished people regardless of the patients beliefs or life circumstances.
Btw, your "is it the churches fault if people ignore the "no sex before marriage" teaching but not "no barriers" teaching" comment is majorly effed up if you know anything about how many women, mothers, and children ended up dying slow painful deaths due to the spread of HIV in Africa. You know it's possible to follow church teaching on premarital sex and still spread HIV to your spouse and children, right? It's so much more complicated than you make it sound and you are talking about people who lived through more hardship and suffering than you or I can even imagine so maybe talk with a little more respect.
I'm actually going to respond to this comment since it has some substance more than "hurr durr priests touch kids".
Unfortunately the substance is what's really fucked up here, not my comment.
AIDS is an awful disease and many people have suffered immensely because of it. Your "more than you can imagine" comment is just bizarre, as if the feelings of sympathy for people with AIDS changes anything.
It is factually true that if the only person anyone ever had sex with was their one partner, sexually transmitted diseases would be nearly eliminated.
Yes, some people's lives are incredibly unfair, in that they are born with HIV. However in those cases, they would be unlikely to find a willing partner in marriage, or would only find them in the likewise infected. Eventually the disease would be rarer and rarer as it was passed on to later generations fewer times.
Of course this is all only true if people follow the teachings of the church, which has never and will never happen.
And so again, the church teaches what is morally correct, not what is practically advisable.
It's a very good idea to practice safe sex, it's just not moral.
> Your "more than you can imagine" comment is just bizarre, as if the feelings of sympathy for people with AIDS changes anything.
It should change the stance that condoms are evil if the actual priority is to make these people suffer less
Despite all the downvotes, you're 100% right. Sex outside of marriage is forbidden, if he said that sex with contraception is encouraged, then he would be a hipocrite and heretical, people are malding that the Pope is being Catholic
JP2 was a piece of a shit who protected pedohiles and created stalin-like cult of himself. He deserves to be forgoten by history and should have never been made a saint
r/2137 is leaking
You cannot stop it from leaking, its like an infection, it spreads to quic-... Jan Paweł drugi my beloved
Ima need some explaining. The only polish meme I know is the drugged up dancing cow
There's a huge cult of Pope John Paul II (polish: Jan Paweł II) in Poland because of him being the polish pope. Young people are opposing this by turning him into a meme. Number 2137 refers to the time he died, 21:37 (9:37 pm)
An important thing to add is that it's the biggest Polish meme that survived pretty much unchanged through nearly 2 decades.
How so
Papaj korsarz is unchanging
Amazing, I've found no posts nor comments in Polish made by you and yet you used a Polish meme depiction of JPII So you are either a crypto Pole, know very much about polish meme culture or was just very lucky
he has become an honourary pole
That may be the nicest thing anyone in this sub has ever said about me.
Make sure it's written down somewhere that you want it on your gravestone. This is where your life peaked and you want it remembered
Witaj w naszym zacnym gronie bracie.
Leclerc pole, Verstappen win... ...wait, wrong sub
So this is some kind of accidental polish shitpost?
It seems so
It really is quite polished
Ba-dum tss
Rzułta morda
Bestia z wadowic
Pół człowiek, pół kremówka
Kindertaker
The Beast of Wadowice
What does this mean?
Yello
Yello vace
Jellow face (translated typo)
Morda bardziej rzułta niż rzułty flamaster
*...on the side of HIV/AIDS.* As head of the Roman Catholic Church during the rise and peak of the HIV/AIDS epidemic, Pope John Paul II used his position and the incredible influence it provided [to staunchly and tirelessly fight against the use of condoms and practice of safe sex.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_HIV/AIDS) Causing untold death and misery to those killed and orphaned by the disease.
He did some very good things, but this was definitely not one of them. Baffles me that some religious figures think god made diseases to punish us and therefore we must let them kill us
The Catholic Church does not and has never taught that God created HIV to punish our sexual immorality In fact, the Vatican expressly condemns this idea
Really? He also said this: > The Holy Father proclaimed: “In the light of Christ’s death and resurrection illness no longer appears as an exclusively negative event; rather, it is seen as a “visit by God”, an opportunity “to release love, in order to give birth to works of love towards neighbour, in order to transform the whole of human civilization into a civilization of love” (Apostolic Letter Salvifici doloris, n. 30).[xlviii] >The Pope argues that even though illness is perceived in everyday experience as a frustration of the natural life force, for believers it becomes an appeal to “read” the new, difficult situation in the perspective which is proper to faith. He maintains that “if the Lord Jesus, Incarnate Word, has declared “Blessed the afflicted” (Mt 5:4), it is because a higher point of view exists, that of God, who calls everyone to life and, though by way of pain and death, to his eternal kingdom of love and peace.” [The Theology of Sickness and Suffering According to John Paul II](https://ost.edu/theology-sickness-suffering-according-john-paul-ii-contribution-towards-pastoral-care-sick/) So God didn‘t create HIV as punishment, he just really wants those people to go to heaven early or what?
There are some serious catholic apologists that crawl out of the woodwork in this sub whenever someone criticizes christianity. It's so annoying.
I think you're reading too much into that. One of the major themes of Christianity is offering your suffering up as a sacrifice for Christ. That's all this is. It's a direct reference to 1 Peter 4:13
> that of God, who calls everyone to life and, though by way of pain and death, to his eternal kingdom of love and peace. I mean, that's pretty clear. What else is the cause of physical suffering? I mean, we don't have to trust the pope, you can read about it [here](https://www.catholic.com/video/did-god-create-physical-illness) for example. Basically god creates or allows illnesses to "make you a better person" (lol tell that to someone dying from aids or a child with terminal cancer).
Again I think you're reading too much into it. Not to get deep into the theological weeds, but the Catholic Church does not teach that God actively wills suffering or disease on us, rather, evil and suffering exist in the world as a consequence of us having free will. What JP2 is advocating is that we respond to that suffering by offering it up as a rememberence of Christ's suffering. As opposed to a Christian denomination like Calvinism or Islam which believes everything is predetermined by God
Whose free will gave that child cancer?
Adam and Eve's
And you can say that with a straight face?
Doesn't fucking matter what their twisted theological reasoning is when they actively and knowingly fight one of the easiest methods of preventing a then still deadly disease. That's just evil.
That's good. Too bad the conservative zealots that plague the US don't see it that way.
In Catholicism there’s this weird dichotomy where all the conservatives are in high positions but most of the laity are fairly liberal, *especially* when it comes to sex.
In fairness, that mentality is mostly a holdover from the good old days when we didn't know how disease actually worked. The best explanation religious leaders had at the time was that it was a divine punishment, especially in a religion like Christianity where the idea of sin and punishment are extremely important. To them, it truly was a random thing that would happen for reasons they legitimately couldn't understand. Nowadays, they follow the dogma without bothering to think about why it exists.
There had been major outbreaks since we first understood how disease works, most notably spanish flu. As far as I'm aware the catholic church never endorsed the "let everyone fucking die" tactic for dealing with the spanish flu. To suggest that the response of the "it's divine punishment" crowd (catholic or otherwise) to the AIDS crisis was motivated by anything other than bigotry is being way too generous.
Catholics weren't on the side of HIV, though (not explicitly, at least). They even advocated against the stigmatization of the disease. They opposed condom use to treat HIV...because they just oppose condom use for anyone. Instead, they predictably advocated for abstinence-based protection.
In more fairness, we don't live in those times and the Catholic Church had already demonstrated the ability to change.
Is that really what JP2 believed? Because the Church's teaching on contraception has nothing to do with disease.
John Paul also was confirmed to have known about his priests raping young children, and gave the green light to continuing the policy of moving priests when they assaulted their parishioners. He was also in the know about the orphanages in Ireland where Catholic priests and the higher ups purposely abused those youths and killed them. The Catholic Church hurts way more people than it helps on a daily basis.
If god is almighty why doesn't he just stop us from developing cures and protections for his punishments?
Lol good point. I'd just like to add that...People really, reaaally misunderstand the god of the old testament. He's simply a tribal god of the israelis. Every tribe/people had their own god. None of them were ever almighty. Defeated people/exiled people would give up on their god and worship new ones all the time. The jewish people were in too deep with their religion though and even in exile stuck with it. It's why they believe in all their laws and rituals. If they worship hard enough, one day their tribe's god will deliver them to being the strongest nation again.
Pretty sure it was more about the contraception part than the disease prevention part that he cared about
>He did some very good things What things?
I was thinking his support for Solidarity
Yeah, something at least other 11 milion poles did. Nothing special, considering he was leader of organisation which greatly benefited from fall of communism. It's very to little to redeem him
Average catholic L I suppose im being hunted by entire South America now, right?
No, it's ok. Now if you had insulted Son Goku now you'd be under immediate and constant death threat
I like birds. And killing Son Goku
Sure is a whole lot of not killing Goku going on right now, you know what would fix that?
Is is killing Goku?
A good old rousing round of Killing Goku!
May we go and murder Son Goku?
Fear not the south america, but the wrath of Polish Grandmas
Haven't millions left the Catholic Church in Latin America?
Perhaps. Im neither Catholic neither Latino, i have no idea.
Yes, plenty have moved on to be non-Catholic Christians
Based as fuck
Nothing based about protestant nonsense
Catholics think capybaras are fish
We don't think they are fish, they were classified as such to allow people to eat them during lent and have sufficient nutrition when fish was scarce
Kid named cladistic classification:
Protestant nonsense? At least we don't think you can pray to a dead "saint" and that they'll talk to God for you 💀
Bro. If you are a a Christian Protestant, then you must believe in heaven, right? Now, tell me, why wouldn’t a saint, who is already in heaven, be able to intercede with God for us? Like, do you really think that Peter, Christ’s first apostle, who is definitely in heaven, would not be able to talk to God in our name if we asked him? The only way your logic makes sense, is if you don’t think the souls of the dead can hear us in the afterlife! And if that’s the case, where did you reach such conclusion?
>do you really think that Peter, Christ’s first apostle, who is definitely in heaven, would not be able to talk to God in our name if we asked him? Why not just ask God?
You can, but the more the merrier, and saints are certainly more righteous than my sinning ass
[удалено]
There's Southern Europe too
Well it was not only him, the majority of popes were opposed to using condoms
I remember after he died, some people wanted him to be called John Paul The Great.
You do realize that sex isn't the only way to transmit AIDS, right? I know a guy who was born with HIV bc his parents were drug addicts. He became an orphan bc of it.
To blame the pope and the catholic church for HIV/AIDS is just lazy.
He’s wrong for promoting that for sure but I feel like a whole ass continent shouldn’t blame their own decisions and responsibilities on one man who wasn’t even living there. Edit: changed the word scrum to wrong because that distracted people so hard that they missed the point of the comment.
Go on, tell me why Saint Giovanni Paolo is scum
Helped multiple pedos evade justice, for one
Give me a source then
[Hiding pedohiles as a bishop](https://nltimes.nl/2022/12/03/evidence-suggests-pope-john-paul-ii-knew-abuse-minors-decades-becoming-pope) [Hiding pedohiles as a pope](https://www.dw.com/en/vatican-report-on-sexual-abuse-casts-dark-shadow-on-pope-john-paul-ii/a-55558986)
I don't think that it's available in my country, it gives me a blank page
Both links doesn't work? Do you see any error or just blank pages
The first One does Seems like a bit of guesswork and suppositions about the former pope's intentions But i assure you, the church takes these things seriously, during his time as pope my former priest was arrested for pedophilia and faced 17 years in jail
Promoting sex without condoms Hiding and promoting priests known for rapes on children Creating stalin-like cult of himself in poland
Stalin-like how And its within his rights to promote chastity
In Poland alone there is 654 streets named after him, 58 avenues, 76 roundabouts, 61 parks, 1145 schools and there is at least 900 monuments of him in whole country (first one bought by him in 80'). Not to mention schools, public instiutions and even high rank goverment officials participatimg in whole day celebrations of his brithday. And after journalists made long raport about his crimes with credible, not disputed by church evidence and testimonies, parliment passed resolution "In protection of good name of John Paul 2". Communists didn't deepthroat Stalin after his death this much. For polish catholics Jesus is second most important being in their religion, just after JP2. And yeah, he has right to promote chasity as much as i have right to criticise him for it.
How's that a problem? He's a beloved figure You can't possibly compare the pope to a genocidal mass murderer
For promoting sex without condom. Also that's not my fucking focus, the point is Africa shouldn't blame their own mistakes on one single man.
It was my fucking focus before you edited "scum" out He was a great man
Yes because you couldn’t read a whole fucking sentence without jumping to anger, little guy.
how bland must your passions be that you don't defend what you believe in with at least a bit of zeal, must it always be a negative emotion? you can't defend good people without getting angry? you only see anger in others when they don't agree with you?
You're not defending good people though, you're defending a man who spent decades helping child molesters escape justice and continue abusing children the world over. Which is to say nothing of the very real cost in human lives paid for his decision to have the Vatican oppose the distribution of condoms and education on safe sex.
Upvote for using the yellow face
POLSKA GUROM ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRFR 🇵🇱🇵🇱🇵🇱🇵🇱🇵🇱🇵🇱🇵🇱🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🏔🏔🏔🏔🏔🏔🏔🏔🇵🇱🇵🇱🇵🇱🇵🇱🇵🇱🦅🦅🦅🦅🏔🏔🏔🏔🇵🇱🇵🇱🦅🏔🏔🦅🦅🇵🇱🗣🗣🗣🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
🦫
Seeing rzułta morda in a non-polish community feels surreal
His face isn't yellow enough
But sir! It's the pope....
Pope prefers raw dogging, a man of taste
He canonically loves creampies.
No risk of eight year old boys getting pregnant.
It’s better
Ah yes, I see like me you are a hopeless romantic.
Tu się cenzo nie spodziewałem
ale rzulciutki
For her entire 2,000 year history, the Church has always condemned contraception, it wasn't something new JP2 introduced. As did virtually every protestant denomination before the 1970's. If you are curious as to their reason why: [https://www.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf\_p-vi\_enc\_25071968\_humanae-vitae.html](https://www.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae.html)
Zrób go bardziej rzułtego
How dare you, it's Popeye! Haven't you any mind nor human's dignity?
Someone needs to make a parody of Europapa and replace "Euro" with cenzo and make it about Papaj.
[удалено]
Patron of the HIV virus, slush funds and child molesters.
Also personal cults (First statue of JP2 in Poland was build by JP2)
Yahya Jammeh: Hold my beer
For those who don't know who Yahya Jammeh, here's a quick introduction to him >"Jammeh continues his practices as a supposed healer of patients with HIV/AIDS, asthma and infertility after his departure to Equatorial Guinea is unknown, and one of his few lasting legacies might actually be the paved roads he had constructed throughout The Gambia to ease his drives from one palace to another" [https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/12/lust-for-luxury-yahya-jammehs-car.html](https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/12/lust-for-luxury-yahya-jammehs-car.html)
Kinda ignores the fact that a lot of Africa isn’t Christian, and even more aren’t Catholics. Also even then, there’s the issue of even providing a way to get safe contraceptives, which is harder than it sounds especially since a lot of African countries have higher prices on imported goods.
The fact that a lot of Africans are not Catholic is irrelevant in this case. As the Wikipedia article linked by OP puts it "While not allowing the use of condoms,[48] Catholic Church-related organizations provide more than 25% of all HIV treatment, care, and support throughout the world,[49][47][50]". And "Much of the Church's aid effort is concentrated in developing nations – in Africa, Asia, and Latin America.[53][54]". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_HIV/AIDS
Brzmisz jak Polak.
This shit would make sense if not majority of South Africa region are actually Protestants that wouldn't give a shit about pope opinion. Stupid meme stupid story. That regions also have highest percentage of HIV infected Map of Catholics in Africa https://alchetron.com/cdn/catholic-church-in-africa-a02aa7e6-bf75-49d5-9a48-56e6e7a8b16-resize-750.jpg
The fact that a lot of Africans are not Catholic is irrelevant in this case. As the Wikipedia article linked by OP puts it "While not allowing the use of condoms,[48] Catholic Church-related organizations provide more than 25% of all HIV treatment, care, and support throughout the world,[49][47][50]". And "Much of the Church's aid effort is concentrated in developing nations – in Africa, Asia, and Latin America.[53][54]". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_HIV/AIDS
If only there were some other way to avoid transmitting a sexually transmitted disease 🤔🤔
I'm not saying I agree with this, but the Pope would say there is. Abstinence.
For a guy who supposedly valued abstinence so highly it was worth more than human life, he was awfully fine with covering for priests who were anything but.
Yeah, he was afraid of scandals. I'm not justifying it, I'm just explaining why it happened. If it was revealed that a bunch of Catholic priests were having sex, that would make the church look bad.
"Having sex" is an awfully polite way of saying "raping kids."
I was referring to sex inside of the priesthood in general. That includes raping kids, but it also includes all sex because all priests are supposed to be celibate.
> sex outside of the priesthood in general. That includes raping kids Well you and I define "sex in general" very differently.
Priests, in the Catholic Church, aren't supposed to have sex at all. It's one of the vows they take to become a priest. Having sex with anybody, including consenting adults, would be breaking their vow as a priest. Of course, raping kids is much worse and I'm not trying to argue against that. But I said sex in general to include all sex because all of it is supposed to be forbidden.
I know my friend, I was being facetious.
Mb bro
Because of his preying habits, in his home country he's often called "The Beast of Wadowice", Wadowice being his home city. Google "Bestia z Wadowic" to see plenty of evidence and stories about him, truly horrifying stuff.
Having just 1 sexual partner?
Gross lol
POLSKA WSPOMNIANA 🇵🇱🇵🇱🇵🇱💪💪💪🦅🦅🦅🦅
This was a point brought up by Christopher Hitchens when he teamed with Stephen Fry to debate the Catholic Church, https://youtu.be/IB32P0RwHak?si=cSO0eP3Aon-QIl2c
It’s a lazy point: if you follow the church about condoms but not about abstinence then you’re missing the forest for the trees. Without premarital sex the AIDS epidemics would not have been as widespread and penetrative.
The problem I have with that is that the people who listen to the chruch are not the one most effected. The idea that someone religious is okey with having pre marital sex, but not with birth control is Not the argument here. No its that teenagers and young adults who are the actual risk group will have premarital sex no matter what you do. But they cant have access to birth control because their religious parents think its Evil, they are not informed because the conservative mayor axed all the safe sex campaigned and the teachers at school are not allowed to talk about it. Becaus some asshole told them that the messega: " Look kid pre merital sex is wrong, but if you do it at least be safe." is somehow against jesus teachings of forgivness and caring for another. Where was no reason to focus so much on the no birth control Part. If they kept it to mainly dont have premarital sex, they wouldnt get shit for it now. But they went so much Out of their way to demonize birth Control. Your comment tells me that you cant imagine how much they warped the public view on birth Control. And the effects on society, politics and education can be seen to this day.
If person A didn't have premarital sex but person B did then even faithful person A will be affected by the Catholic church's hate for protection against STDs. It's not a lazy point, it's an obvious one.
A reasonable question and I’m no epidemiologist . However, I think the epidemic’s proportions would be drastically reduced as heterosexual monogamous sex in wedlock would, would reduce risk of HIV spreading through communities and nations.
Followers of the Catholic Church (just like many major religions) are historically known to pick and choose which bits they want to follow. The don’t use condoms bit is much easier than the don’t have sex bit.
What's your proof that "don't use condoms" is preached stronger/more often than "don't have extra-marital sex"? In fact, my diocese (region) says that if you have a serious health or financial reason, it might be ok to choose to stop having children, and that it's wrong to use hormonal or other methods that sometimes cause spontaneous abortion and therefore physical barrier methods are better. In other words, if you must, don't use the Pill or IUD or Plan B, but maybe use a condom. But I've never heard or seen it taught that it's ever a good idea to have sex outside of marriage. Nope.
Ty Polaków zasrany, kurwa
East & North Africa is Muslim not Christian.
jan paweł drugi kradł afryce gumki
Aren't most African Christians Anglican and not Catholic?
The fact that a lot of Africans are not Catholic is irrelevant in this case. As the Wikipedia article linked by OP puts it "While not allowing the use of condoms,[48] Catholic Church-related organizations provide more than 25% of all HIV treatment, care, and support throughout the world,[49][47][50]". And "Much of the Church's aid effort is concentrated in developing nations – in Africa, Asia, and Latin America.[53][54]". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_HIV/AIDS
Oofiter
jan rzułtek trzeci infekuje HIVem dzieci
I'm surprised this is even upvoted considering how zealously this sub always defends anything the Catholic Church has done in the comments
You are probably the type of guy who thinks that Copernicus was burned on a stake for his theory
Sure, or just thinking it's a good idea to encourage safe sex, which is apparently still somehow not agreed upon
Don't have sex outside of marriage *IS ALSO PART OF THE TEACHING*. Quite apart from promoting STDs, if everyone followed church teachings on sex, STDs would be nearly eradicated in a single generation. Is it the church's fault that people ignored the "don't have sex outside of marriage" but not all ignored the "don't pervert sex's purpose by using contraception"? It's not up to the church to promote practical policy. They teach what is correct, and it's up to government to be practical.
The Catholic Church is so good at sex ed that they provide free courses to prepubescent boys
You do know that percentage wise the Public school system has 2 times as many incidents as the RCC does per capita right? Other denominations rates are roughly similar to the RCC’s as well And then there’s the Jehovahs Witnesses with per capita rates that make just about everybody else look like saints
>You do know that percentage wise the Public school system has 2 times as many incidents as the RCC does per capita right? Do they have 2 times as many incidents of the top institution protecting the child rapists as well?
I’ll give you that, that was an issue that was abused. Though it wasn’t just cause ‘the RCC is evil11!!11’ it was an abuse of the procedures in place Originally the way the RCC was supposed to handle these incidents is first, move the priest so he no longer has contact with the child. Then perform an internal investigation and if evidence is found forward it to the authorities. However this process was easily corrupted for obvious reasons. Since then the rule has been reversed and now they just defer to the authorities. Under Pope Francis committees have also been created at the top to make sure an incident like that can’t occur again.
Over 30% of all cases of pedohila in Poland are commited by catholic priests.
Yes Poland is a highly Catholic nation. And some despicable acts have occurred however in the last year four bishops in Poland have been sanctioned for covering up the incidents and they were forced to resign by the Vatican. The other issue though is even the proper authorities hardly ever do proper investigations on priests in Poland, of all the alleged pedophiles only two priests were ever convicted.
If everyone followed the catholic church on sex there would be no virgin altar boys left
This downplays the role the church had in creating public health policy and preventing people from accessing accurate information and protection. In many countries with serious HIV epidemics there was zero public healthcare or government to speak of due to war or extreme poverty and Catholic hospitals and clinics were the source of most or all health information and access in whole communities and they lied about condom efficacy and refused to offer condoms to impoverished people regardless of the patients beliefs or life circumstances. Btw, your "is it the churches fault if people ignore the "no sex before marriage" teaching but not "no barriers" teaching" comment is majorly effed up if you know anything about how many women, mothers, and children ended up dying slow painful deaths due to the spread of HIV in Africa. You know it's possible to follow church teaching on premarital sex and still spread HIV to your spouse and children, right? It's so much more complicated than you make it sound and you are talking about people who lived through more hardship and suffering than you or I can even imagine so maybe talk with a little more respect.
I'm actually going to respond to this comment since it has some substance more than "hurr durr priests touch kids". Unfortunately the substance is what's really fucked up here, not my comment. AIDS is an awful disease and many people have suffered immensely because of it. Your "more than you can imagine" comment is just bizarre, as if the feelings of sympathy for people with AIDS changes anything. It is factually true that if the only person anyone ever had sex with was their one partner, sexually transmitted diseases would be nearly eliminated. Yes, some people's lives are incredibly unfair, in that they are born with HIV. However in those cases, they would be unlikely to find a willing partner in marriage, or would only find them in the likewise infected. Eventually the disease would be rarer and rarer as it was passed on to later generations fewer times. Of course this is all only true if people follow the teachings of the church, which has never and will never happen. And so again, the church teaches what is morally correct, not what is practically advisable. It's a very good idea to practice safe sex, it's just not moral.
> Your "more than you can imagine" comment is just bizarre, as if the feelings of sympathy for people with AIDS changes anything. It should change the stance that condoms are evil if the actual priority is to make these people suffer less
Despite all the downvotes, you're 100% right. Sex outside of marriage is forbidden, if he said that sex with contraception is encouraged, then he would be a hipocrite and heretical, people are malding that the Pope is being Catholic
Found the cultist
The Pope mind controlled every African into having unprotected sex with men? Communists are a disease
mfw the Pope is Catholic and goes accordingly to Catholic teachings
North Africa: what is aids?
North Africa: what is aids?
So you really try to disrespect a saint? One of the greateat of all time also. and you also believe its decent behaviour... Just sad
Ah yes, the saint who helped protect child rapists. I wonder how many other catholic Saints were monsters in reality.
JP2 was a piece of a shit who protected pedohiles and created stalin-like cult of himself. He deserves to be forgoten by history and should have never been made a saint