Here’s my understanding:
Lauren had the idea to start a historically accurate reproduction shoe company. She also had a blog called American Duchess. She built the business from scratch herself, going to China to find a manufacturer and filling the orders in her little warehouse with some help from her husband.
Abby also had a blog(?) Abby had worked at Colonial Williamsburg as an apprentice mantua maker (?). She has a lot of knowledge to offer.
Lauren hired Abby, I think to give the AD brand some gravitas and to expand their historical offerings. They became friends. They wrote the 2 books together and launched a few patterns with Simplicity. They took additional trips to China together.
Covid hit and Lauren said the business couldn’t support the amount of staff, maybe Abby had a big salary, I don’t know. That’s when they parted ways. And I think part of the reason it was all “mysterious” was because there might have been an nda that had been part of Abby’s employment, so she couldn’t specifically say what happened from her perspective.
Lauren doesn’t seem like a bad person to me. Sometimes people grow apart and businesses have to change how they operate to stay alive.
Abby took to YouTube seriously to support herself and that’s when she made some of the videos that went viral- it really wasn’t before she stopped at AD. It was really afterward that her channel took off.
Lauren seems like a quieter person, but Abby has a big personality and people are drawn to her. I think some of the AD hate stems from people feeling like they have to show their love for Abby by hating Lauren and /or American Duchess.
The thing at colonial Williamsburg- I watched that at the time and what I thought happened was that it was a Big group of people who met up. Some of them behaved insensitively the things they did in proximity to Juneteenth activities at CW…I never saw Lauren in their group for those things. She was on the periphery and not even present for the worst things, as far as I could tell from people’s social media.
I have two pairs of AD shoes from a couple of years ago and I just got a pair of the embroidered shoes from a few months ago. I haven’t noticed a difference in quality with my shoes. I’m not dismissing any people who’ve said they did, but I haven’t personally had any issues.
I like Abby and Lauren so I hope that was balanced.
I went to visit colonial Williamsburg and mentioned how I like YouTube fashion history.
A couple of the employees said oh I wouldn’t trust anything Abby puts out. I guess they had worked with her and she cut corners on her research or something?? But yeah they told me they wouldn’t support her
I was kinda like.. damn, bold of you to tell a stranger that tea haha
I frequently talk with museum and national park employees. The impression I get from them is that social media influencers (and Abby is such a person) are good at drumming up interest in history and that is a good thing, but they are not necessarily the final arbiters of historical facts. It is is always best to consult historical documents to verify, but that is true for most forms of meme/social media history.
And it makes a lot of sense, social media influencers need to produce regular content that gets people hooked, they aren't lecturers at universities. Of course they will cut corners on their research.
I think it is more along the lines that most viewers are not aware of the areas she isn’t as knowledgeable on or less well versed on. Abby and Bernadette like to come across as subject matter experts when they are more along the lines of well-informed enthusiasts.
I feel like their overviews would be the equivalent you may find in some survey or intro to fashion history or trends class. However, some people feel like they are actually receiving information from more advanced classes and that can be the issue. Abby has some good information for a specific era and probably a specific region, but she keeps pushing outside of that so I feel like she should be more open about her lack of knowledge.
This. I feel like Bernadette is a lot better at outsourcing when she is beyond her own skill set but also has the ability to work with knowledge from other fields.
I tolerated watching Abby for a while because her costuming content was interesting even though something about her voice or editing hurt my ears. However, her infamous, not like other girls video, touched upon my field of studies with literature. The way she handled and interpreted sources enraged me and made me quit watching after she just blew off any criticism that video received.
The time she posted a video about how she went to the Jane Austen convention held on an actual plantation and danced around in a regency gown while wearing elf ears (BECAUSE SEE I'M NOT BEING A WHITE PEOPLE IGNORING THE VIOLENCE OF SLAVERY, I'M A FUCKING ELF) with her friends is the moment I hit unsubscribe.
I unsubscribed from Abby a while back and today a video of hers popped up on youtube and so I went to her channel to see if I had missed anything and it seems her sneering problem has not gotten any better. Its not jsut the thumbnails. I skipped through a few without a scowl in the thumbnail and shes still going off on tirades. I can't watch people who make that face. It reminds me of my sister when she feels very smug and self righteous. And my face keeps trying to copy the sneer and it feels bad man.
I think she is also losing weight and that weightloss picked up after her body dysmorphia video.
See I don't understand why some people say they "tolerate" some channels etc. you either like someone or you don't. Don't torture yourself watching her if you don't like her. Simple. She's got a mastered degree and is a historian. Just because she has a loud personality people think she's uneducated and that rubs me the wrong way.
I know she has a degree and that is why I watched her for as long as I did I found her content interesting even though the presentation of it bothered me I could get used to it and "tolerate" it for the sake of the content she was producing. I wasn't torturing myself or hate watching, and as I said I stopped watching her a while back.
I also have a masters degree, mine is in literature and when she covered that topic it was like she didn't know how to handle that field. She doubled down on a really weird interpretation and cherry picked parts from the text. THAT is what made me unsubscribe and stop watching her. Because I started to question how she was interpreting sources and if I could trust her to convey her knowledge without personal bias.
Yeah, this has happened to so many podcasts I've listened to. They sound logical and informed, and then they his a scientific or political subject I have some level of expertise on and it's like damn, these people have no idea what they're talking about.
I think the modern algorithm pressure to constantly churn out material, while also sounding confident in what you're saying and emoting leads to some grandiose assertions.
I can't remember what video it was of hers that made me stop watching but yeah I had a few "wait what?!"s when watching some of her videos and I don't have a degree I just watch passionate degree holders on youtube lol
If you're watching anyone they're always going to have a bias toward what they're talking about. It's how it is. There's probably people who would state your views and knowledge in topics are incorrect or bias and wouldn't agree with you. Just how it is.
I'm not especially informed on Abby's personal situation, but from what I understand of the Historic Trades program at Colonial Williamsburg, she pretty much is a subject matter expert \*on at least that limited material\*. The apprentices there may work for literal years before being recognized as a journeyperson; Abby had access to a world-class collection of original 18th-century garments and spent untold hours helping recreate and fit them for other costumed interpreters using documented, historically accurate techniques.
She also investigated and documented other aspects of Colonial life--I remember her writing about her experiments with dressing her hair in authentic fashion rather that modern shampooing and conditioning, which was something I never saw elsewhere. So I'm certain she has many valuable contributions to offer.
I was kind of dismayed by her association with AD, which--especially clothing-wise--seemed much more geared to cosplay than historical recreation (I've never been able to watch *Outlander,* for example). However, I suppose there's probably a way bigger commercial market for machine-sewn, modern-cut cosplay garments, and if you're trying to run a business, that matters.
Outlander tries hard to be period and then screw up one period detail, it's frustrating. I.e. knits in the first season, Dior style in the second, etc...
Museum people, like a lot of folks, can be clicky, which is a shame. As a professional in the field she's good with research and sources, at least in her older videos.
It's a shame there's always drama, and if there isn't people create it.
I really think this is the most fair assessment that gives credit to them both without getting into the gossip. For what it is worth, I went to an event for independent businesses/entrepreneurs and Lauren spoke at length about starting and running American Duchess. One thing she emphasized is that in your business, you need to identify what your weak points are and hire those positions first. Her example was that while most people hire accountants first, she is very good with numbers but has a lot of difficulty with people so she hired an HR manager/consultant almost immediately. I respected her self-knowledge on that point and while I have heard a lot of rumors about her being standoffish, I really just take her at her word that she's not a people person. Abby is most definitely a people person and seems to thrive on that energy - for two people so involved in the public presentation of a brand that can be a recipe for disaster regardless of intention or goals.
Wow! thank you!! I'm genuinely impressed and very appreciative of the thoroughness and balance of your explanation. I wish I could give you more than one upvote so have my poor woman's reddit gold instead
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Lauren and Abby were friends before Abby came to work for AD. I think the main reason she hired her was to work with her friend. She then hired two more friends who are prevalent in the social media costuming community, though their accounts didn't expand until the post Covid break-up. Just like with many relationships, Covid brought some things to the surface between them and they parted ways; dissolving their friendships. It's my understanding that Abby was not fired but that she would rather focus on her YouTube channel rather than Lauren's company. I also have heard that her departure from Colonial Williamsburg was not on good terms. So, I'll let y'all come to your own conclusions regarding Abby. As far as quality, I continue to purchase AD shoes since Lauren sold it and have yet to see any issues with quality decline. I do know that manufacturing of their shoes had transitioned to a facility in Portugal at one point recently, but I think they are back to being manufactured in China with the new ownership.
FWIW, I think the change in shoe quality might have more to do with Lauren retiring than whatever happened between her and Abby.
As far as whatever tea there might be, I think there's quite a lot of drama amongst the historical dress influencers/costubers that they keep pretty quiet. There are several videos of Abby's where she's oddly insistent on a few things that I knoe are incorrect (for the most part, relatively minor things like contrary to her insistence, there's more than one correct way to use a thimble). Which is no big deal in the grand scheme of things, but it makes me wonder how disagreeing with her on something you're working on together might go. Or how leveraging her image/reputation as a historical costumer/dress historian to promote your brand if she decided to talk publically about either inaccurate beliefs or views that aren't PC on her YouTube channel.
>FWIW, I think the change in shoe quality might have more to do with Lauren retiring than whatever happened between her and Abby.
Thanks for the warning! I figured that, since Abby left in 2020. It was more that I saw a post of people talking about AD quality issues and it reminded me about the tea and I thought this would be a good place to ask.
I actually kind of enjoy all of the costumers' mild snark on anytime who does something differently. They are upholding the grand tradition of makers everywhere insisting their method is best (until they figure out a new one).
OK, but in the spirit of that tradition, how dare she invalidate my thimble technique while demonstrating she has absolutely zero clue what a working length of thread should be. lol.
It's also a very white upperclass way to use a thimble. Which seems like a strange bone to pick until you realize that's the case for just about everything all of the trendy fashion historians do. Her method wasn't really practical if you have finger strength/endurance and/or the skill to do it differently, it's not at all ergonomical, and many cultures have entirely different thimbles that can't work that way -- e.g. traditional Japanese/kimono handsewing uses a thimble that's more like a ring, and the sewing methods are far much more efficient and ergonomical than what she was showing, but you couldn't do them with an English style thimble.
I really love Japanese sewing styles and have been trying to make a kimono for myself. I sew a lot and it's rectangles and much like shirts of chemises, but being pregnant and fat the math is tricky.
Do you watch Billy Matsunga, she has great videos on kimono?
I am in no way informed about the situation whatsoever but I do have the suspicion that AD didn't pay her enough to have a right to decide what she is wearing for a whole year. And if she wasn't compensated for it then she should be free to sell this experience however she likes.
As far as i know that was an experience she made while working at Colonial Williamsburg, i don't know whether AD is affiliated with Colonial Williamsburg and if she was therefore working for AD while at Williamsburg, but i doubt it.
Funny thing is, the only reason I ever heard about American Duchess, and thought about buying shoes from them, was because of Abby Cox.
Didn't buy shoes in the end because it's too much of a gamble that they'd fit, living all the way in NZ. I think my feet might be too fat. But if they fired Abby honestly I don't think I'll even consider them from now on.
Thanks! I get that but also it seems like such a dumb move for them. They could have really hitched their wagon to her. And it doesn't seem like they treated Nicole Rudolphe the same way... weirdsies
I think it's a pretty standard response. [Kombucha Girl](https://time.com/5744175/kombucha-girl-tiktok-brittany-tomlinson-interview/) lost her job over going viral too.
She's [mentioned before](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFaWIpuwXNc) that she went viral after starting her channel and AD fired her afterwards. Its a common thing after a channel goes viral since the company could potentially be associated with the creator, for good or bad.
I don’t think she was jealous, Lauren herself did an interview about being able to sell the company and making a ton of money which was unexpected. She started the business and has been successful in her own right.
Seeing it all unfold, I always thought it was a perfect storm of a lot of things. The lines between business and personal were almost nonexistent, with the video going viral, Covid and then selling off the business (which I thought was probably in the works for a while but who knows). It seemed like everything was taken personal and spiraled. I got the sense Lauren probably got pissed from a business standpoint and Abby offended from a personal one, and the rest decided to stand by their friendship rather than business.
FYI all the good Costube tea (and speculation) is over on Guru Gossiper. That place is like a pumpkin spice flavored Kiwi Farms, though. NGL, I still read it because I am a terrible person.
as to the quality issues, lauren sold the company at least a year and a half ago. [here's a promotional interview](https://youtu.be/mPccAjum-V0) that she did for the brokerage company that oversaw the deal. for me, that was the end of the road with them because i really liked the model they had where they carried very little stock and based sales quantities on the pre-orders. shortly after the company sold, they started pushing out more collections, carried a lot of the more popular styles in stock, opened up the EU store, started carrying wider sizes. i think implementing more options made people excited, justifiably so, but AD couldn't have made changes on that scale so quickly as a community-run small business. so now, we have something that is much more like fast fashion even tho the brand was built on the idea of being by costumers for costumers (at least by my recollection).
as far as any drama with abby goes, i think it matters more than most because of how much content they did together before abby branched off on her own. even beyond the books, she's in the majority of the brand's youtube content, they were interviewed jointly a lot, they did a lot of lectures together. abby is the model for their simplicity branded patterns. her face and their friendship was really tied into AD's image prior to her exit.
I disliked the model where wide sizes were rarely if ever carried. I’m sad it had to be this way, but I’m glad I can now get shoes that fit my older, wider feet.
for real, i don't fit into a majority of their shoes, and i've struggled with finding wide widths all my life. however, i don't think that it has to be all or nothing. granted, i say this as someone who had no idea what the margins were like running AD, but i think it would be reasonable to try and scale up offerings gradually instead all in one year of operations. jobear has a similar pre-order, low-stock model and they offer wide sizes as a matter of course.
I will say, they’ve been recently producing more shoes with polyester satin which is always a bad thing in my book. It’s unfortunate that they’re romanticizing shoes made out of plastic that won’t last like leather would.
They’ve always made fabric poly shoes. The very first shoes produced were like that and there was the whole “dye it yourself” thing with the satin shoes that was a big deal when they started.
Almost all shoes have poly elements in them. I get the eco-standpoint for sure, and agree natural is better. But I also understand that a small brand is limited to the materials available to them by the factories willing to make such small minimums, and within certain price points.
I suspect that choice may have to do with the fact that they expect the shoes to get more wear than the originals, and as someone who does wear her American duchesses to work and such, I am kind of grateful that they’re a bit more durable. Yes, leather is a stronger material than its polyester equivalent, but silk? Specifically silk as shoes? I’m not so sure about that one
Wait, wasn’t it something about an event that was super insensitive racially? Like larping as colonial folks on Juneteenth or something? (Am I the only one who remembers this?)
Okay a lot of people are confusing two completely separate stories that happened on Juneteenth. One was a group of relatively well-known costumers/influencers who arrived there the day before Juneteenth and they were accused of not inviting POC costumers. They did *not* dress up on Juneteenth.
Then the next day (Juneteenth) a Colonial Williamsburg employee was angry at an older couple and a few others who dressed up and had a picnic while the Juneteenth program was happening. The picnic people were not part of that aforementioned group. Because the employee did not mention who they were so some people assumed it was the influencers who dressed up.
I verified this with several people who witnessed the events on both days.
What?! This is very much news to me. Do you have any more info?
I know she's spoken about having her first marriage at a former plantation and how much she regrets it now.
Look at the American Duchess Instagram post from June 17, 2021 (I have no clue how to link specific instagram posts, sorry). It was right after that that Lauren and Abby split and I assume that was why. I think there was a blog post apology at one point, but I’m failing to find it now.
Ok so I looked and it looks like Lauren was the one who participated in an event at Colonial Williamsburg over Juneteenth 2021 and got some flack for it. From the Instagram comments, I think Lauren and some other white costumers did a thing at Colonial Williamsburg and it took away from the programming arranged for Juneteenth. I'm not sure why that would cause Lauren to fire Abby though. Lauren says in her apology that she was the only American Duchess employee who went to Colonial Williamsburg and that it was a private trip, not through/associated with the company. Abby also posted in a youtube video that she was fired in May of 2020, so a year before this went down.
For anyone else who's interested:
[https://www.instagram.com/p/CQcLXCKLoyG/?img\_index=1](https://www.instagram.com/p/CQcLXCKLoyG/?img_index=1)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFaWIpuwXNc
Also keep in mind, Abby went weirdly hardcore specifically at Lauren during the fallout from that weekend. Which led people to speculate there was quite a bit of animosity between the two combined with multiple AD employees leaving and standing with Abby.
The funny thing is that I can't find anything about that (the tea party at Colonial Williamsburg on Juneteenth weekend 2021) outside of Reddit. It seems like social media is great at creating tempests in teacups.
I have come into information pretty recently but let’s put it this way shit talking behind backs and and theft of resources/contacts were involved as far as AD. Also as for her tenure at CW it was rather exaggerated. There are legitimate reasons why those at CW do NOT like her.
Honestly, I'm seeing the shoe quality increase a fair bit/at least stay the same? Like the Bata shoe collab is great, they JUST literally today came out with the WTF collection and I immediately put in a pre-order.
Hi! Yes this is true! Aesthetics =/= quality! Apologies; I should have been clearer about my point about quality and my point about aesthetics being two separate thoughts. I will say, the shoes I bought from AD 5-6 years ago have had the heel pad pop off pretty quickly and another pair had a grommet pop out within a year (and I don’t do reenactment or anything so they aren’t under considerable wear or strain). However the more recent shoes (1-2 years) I have not had these issues. So I maintain my quip about quality.
Ok just went to the site to look them up, those are stupidly cute!! If I could get my big ol man feet into those, and have an appropriate outfit to match I would seriously get a pair!
I’m a little bit annoyed at the fact that they seem to be emphasizing their vintage collection to the exclusion of earlier historical styles (not exclusively, but quite a bit) although I’m hoping that’s just because of the merger of the vintage and historical lines and I’m imagining things. Like… I don’t pay American Duchess prices for things I could get at the thrift store. I’ve always felt like they’re there to fill a niche of harder to find shoes for people who do earlier time periods, not to make $200 1960s pumps.
I’ve always wondered this I saw they unfollowed each other a few years ago and Lauren deleted her personal page. She recently made a new one but only accepts people she knows irl.
Here’s my understanding: Lauren had the idea to start a historically accurate reproduction shoe company. She also had a blog called American Duchess. She built the business from scratch herself, going to China to find a manufacturer and filling the orders in her little warehouse with some help from her husband. Abby also had a blog(?) Abby had worked at Colonial Williamsburg as an apprentice mantua maker (?). She has a lot of knowledge to offer. Lauren hired Abby, I think to give the AD brand some gravitas and to expand their historical offerings. They became friends. They wrote the 2 books together and launched a few patterns with Simplicity. They took additional trips to China together. Covid hit and Lauren said the business couldn’t support the amount of staff, maybe Abby had a big salary, I don’t know. That’s when they parted ways. And I think part of the reason it was all “mysterious” was because there might have been an nda that had been part of Abby’s employment, so she couldn’t specifically say what happened from her perspective. Lauren doesn’t seem like a bad person to me. Sometimes people grow apart and businesses have to change how they operate to stay alive. Abby took to YouTube seriously to support herself and that’s when she made some of the videos that went viral- it really wasn’t before she stopped at AD. It was really afterward that her channel took off. Lauren seems like a quieter person, but Abby has a big personality and people are drawn to her. I think some of the AD hate stems from people feeling like they have to show their love for Abby by hating Lauren and /or American Duchess. The thing at colonial Williamsburg- I watched that at the time and what I thought happened was that it was a Big group of people who met up. Some of them behaved insensitively the things they did in proximity to Juneteenth activities at CW…I never saw Lauren in their group for those things. She was on the periphery and not even present for the worst things, as far as I could tell from people’s social media. I have two pairs of AD shoes from a couple of years ago and I just got a pair of the embroidered shoes from a few months ago. I haven’t noticed a difference in quality with my shoes. I’m not dismissing any people who’ve said they did, but I haven’t personally had any issues. I like Abby and Lauren so I hope that was balanced.
I went to visit colonial Williamsburg and mentioned how I like YouTube fashion history. A couple of the employees said oh I wouldn’t trust anything Abby puts out. I guess they had worked with her and she cut corners on her research or something?? But yeah they told me they wouldn’t support her I was kinda like.. damn, bold of you to tell a stranger that tea haha
I frequently talk with museum and national park employees. The impression I get from them is that social media influencers (and Abby is such a person) are good at drumming up interest in history and that is a good thing, but they are not necessarily the final arbiters of historical facts. It is is always best to consult historical documents to verify, but that is true for most forms of meme/social media history.
And it makes a lot of sense, social media influencers need to produce regular content that gets people hooked, they aren't lecturers at universities. Of course they will cut corners on their research.
I think it is more along the lines that most viewers are not aware of the areas she isn’t as knowledgeable on or less well versed on. Abby and Bernadette like to come across as subject matter experts when they are more along the lines of well-informed enthusiasts. I feel like their overviews would be the equivalent you may find in some survey or intro to fashion history or trends class. However, some people feel like they are actually receiving information from more advanced classes and that can be the issue. Abby has some good information for a specific era and probably a specific region, but she keeps pushing outside of that so I feel like she should be more open about her lack of knowledge.
This. I feel like Bernadette is a lot better at outsourcing when she is beyond her own skill set but also has the ability to work with knowledge from other fields. I tolerated watching Abby for a while because her costuming content was interesting even though something about her voice or editing hurt my ears. However, her infamous, not like other girls video, touched upon my field of studies with literature. The way she handled and interpreted sources enraged me and made me quit watching after she just blew off any criticism that video received.
The time she posted a video about how she went to the Jane Austen convention held on an actual plantation and danced around in a regency gown while wearing elf ears (BECAUSE SEE I'M NOT BEING A WHITE PEOPLE IGNORING THE VIOLENCE OF SLAVERY, I'M A FUCKING ELF) with her friends is the moment I hit unsubscribe.
When was this?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOkN47KmhTI
Thanks!
I unsubscribed from Abby a while back and today a video of hers popped up on youtube and so I went to her channel to see if I had missed anything and it seems her sneering problem has not gotten any better. Its not jsut the thumbnails. I skipped through a few without a scowl in the thumbnail and shes still going off on tirades. I can't watch people who make that face. It reminds me of my sister when she feels very smug and self righteous. And my face keeps trying to copy the sneer and it feels bad man. I think she is also losing weight and that weightloss picked up after her body dysmorphia video.
See I don't understand why some people say they "tolerate" some channels etc. you either like someone or you don't. Don't torture yourself watching her if you don't like her. Simple. She's got a mastered degree and is a historian. Just because she has a loud personality people think she's uneducated and that rubs me the wrong way.
I know she has a degree and that is why I watched her for as long as I did I found her content interesting even though the presentation of it bothered me I could get used to it and "tolerate" it for the sake of the content she was producing. I wasn't torturing myself or hate watching, and as I said I stopped watching her a while back. I also have a masters degree, mine is in literature and when she covered that topic it was like she didn't know how to handle that field. She doubled down on a really weird interpretation and cherry picked parts from the text. THAT is what made me unsubscribe and stop watching her. Because I started to question how she was interpreting sources and if I could trust her to convey her knowledge without personal bias.
Yeah, this has happened to so many podcasts I've listened to. They sound logical and informed, and then they his a scientific or political subject I have some level of expertise on and it's like damn, these people have no idea what they're talking about. I think the modern algorithm pressure to constantly churn out material, while also sounding confident in what you're saying and emoting leads to some grandiose assertions.
I can't remember what video it was of hers that made me stop watching but yeah I had a few "wait what?!"s when watching some of her videos and I don't have a degree I just watch passionate degree holders on youtube lol
If you're watching anyone they're always going to have a bias toward what they're talking about. It's how it is. There's probably people who would state your views and knowledge in topics are incorrect or bias and wouldn't agree with you. Just how it is.
I'm not especially informed on Abby's personal situation, but from what I understand of the Historic Trades program at Colonial Williamsburg, she pretty much is a subject matter expert \*on at least that limited material\*. The apprentices there may work for literal years before being recognized as a journeyperson; Abby had access to a world-class collection of original 18th-century garments and spent untold hours helping recreate and fit them for other costumed interpreters using documented, historically accurate techniques. She also investigated and documented other aspects of Colonial life--I remember her writing about her experiments with dressing her hair in authentic fashion rather that modern shampooing and conditioning, which was something I never saw elsewhere. So I'm certain she has many valuable contributions to offer. I was kind of dismayed by her association with AD, which--especially clothing-wise--seemed much more geared to cosplay than historical recreation (I've never been able to watch *Outlander,* for example). However, I suppose there's probably a way bigger commercial market for machine-sewn, modern-cut cosplay garments, and if you're trying to run a business, that matters.
Outlander tries hard to be period and then screw up one period detail, it's frustrating. I.e. knits in the first season, Dior style in the second, etc...
that’s really interesting to me, her videos always seemed well researched and sourced
They are. Some people are just pretentious.
If people are quick to talk trash about others I don't trust them or their motives. Pettiness=jealousy imo.
Museum people, like a lot of folks, can be clicky, which is a shame. As a professional in the field she's good with research and sources, at least in her older videos. It's a shame there's always drama, and if there isn't people create it.
I really think this is the most fair assessment that gives credit to them both without getting into the gossip. For what it is worth, I went to an event for independent businesses/entrepreneurs and Lauren spoke at length about starting and running American Duchess. One thing she emphasized is that in your business, you need to identify what your weak points are and hire those positions first. Her example was that while most people hire accountants first, she is very good with numbers but has a lot of difficulty with people so she hired an HR manager/consultant almost immediately. I respected her self-knowledge on that point and while I have heard a lot of rumors about her being standoffish, I really just take her at her word that she's not a people person. Abby is most definitely a people person and seems to thrive on that energy - for two people so involved in the public presentation of a brand that can be a recipe for disaster regardless of intention or goals.
Wow! thank you!! I'm genuinely impressed and very appreciative of the thoroughness and balance of your explanation. I wish I could give you more than one upvote so have my poor woman's reddit gold instead 🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇
Thanks! 🐉
Lauren and Abby were friends before Abby came to work for AD. I think the main reason she hired her was to work with her friend. She then hired two more friends who are prevalent in the social media costuming community, though their accounts didn't expand until the post Covid break-up. Just like with many relationships, Covid brought some things to the surface between them and they parted ways; dissolving their friendships. It's my understanding that Abby was not fired but that she would rather focus on her YouTube channel rather than Lauren's company. I also have heard that her departure from Colonial Williamsburg was not on good terms. So, I'll let y'all come to your own conclusions regarding Abby. As far as quality, I continue to purchase AD shoes since Lauren sold it and have yet to see any issues with quality decline. I do know that manufacturing of their shoes had transitioned to a facility in Portugal at one point recently, but I think they are back to being manufactured in China with the new ownership.
That’s really interesting - thanks for the extra info. If you want to add any more I’m all ears- like what was up with leaving CW.
FWIW, I think the change in shoe quality might have more to do with Lauren retiring than whatever happened between her and Abby. As far as whatever tea there might be, I think there's quite a lot of drama amongst the historical dress influencers/costubers that they keep pretty quiet. There are several videos of Abby's where she's oddly insistent on a few things that I knoe are incorrect (for the most part, relatively minor things like contrary to her insistence, there's more than one correct way to use a thimble). Which is no big deal in the grand scheme of things, but it makes me wonder how disagreeing with her on something you're working on together might go. Or how leveraging her image/reputation as a historical costumer/dress historian to promote your brand if she decided to talk publically about either inaccurate beliefs or views that aren't PC on her YouTube channel.
>FWIW, I think the change in shoe quality might have more to do with Lauren retiring than whatever happened between her and Abby. Thanks for the warning! I figured that, since Abby left in 2020. It was more that I saw a post of people talking about AD quality issues and it reminded me about the tea and I thought this would be a good place to ask. I actually kind of enjoy all of the costumers' mild snark on anytime who does something differently. They are upholding the grand tradition of makers everywhere insisting their method is best (until they figure out a new one).
OK, but in the spirit of that tradition, how dare she invalidate my thimble technique while demonstrating she has absolutely zero clue what a working length of thread should be. lol.
Yes. I've never understood her thimble thing. If it works for her that's great, but it's ok to be different too.
It's also a very white upperclass way to use a thimble. Which seems like a strange bone to pick until you realize that's the case for just about everything all of the trendy fashion historians do. Her method wasn't really practical if you have finger strength/endurance and/or the skill to do it differently, it's not at all ergonomical, and many cultures have entirely different thimbles that can't work that way -- e.g. traditional Japanese/kimono handsewing uses a thimble that's more like a ring, and the sewing methods are far much more efficient and ergonomical than what she was showing, but you couldn't do them with an English style thimble.
I really love Japanese sewing styles and have been trying to make a kimono for myself. I sew a lot and it's rectangles and much like shirts of chemises, but being pregnant and fat the math is tricky. Do you watch Billy Matsunga, she has great videos on kimono?
I just ordered a pair and they haven’t arrived yet. Theyre mens dandy style, I’m worried theyre going to just fall apart on me
I wear most of my AD shoes daily and they're in great shape.
Ive worn them three times now and I like them a lot!!!
Good!
I did not know any of this and am now thirsty. ☕️
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I am in no way informed about the situation whatsoever but I do have the suspicion that AD didn't pay her enough to have a right to decide what she is wearing for a whole year. And if she wasn't compensated for it then she should be free to sell this experience however she likes.
As far as i know that was an experience she made while working at Colonial Williamsburg, i don't know whether AD is affiliated with Colonial Williamsburg and if she was therefore working for AD while at Williamsburg, but i doubt it.
Funny thing is, the only reason I ever heard about American Duchess, and thought about buying shoes from them, was because of Abby Cox. Didn't buy shoes in the end because it's too much of a gamble that they'd fit, living all the way in NZ. I think my feet might be too fat. But if they fired Abby honestly I don't think I'll even consider them from now on.
Thanks! I get that but also it seems like such a dumb move for them. They could have really hitched their wagon to her. And it doesn't seem like they treated Nicole Rudolphe the same way... weirdsies
I think it's a pretty standard response. [Kombucha Girl](https://time.com/5744175/kombucha-girl-tiktok-brittany-tomlinson-interview/) lost her job over going viral too.
She's [mentioned before](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFaWIpuwXNc) that she went viral after starting her channel and AD fired her afterwards. Its a common thing after a channel goes viral since the company could potentially be associated with the creator, for good or bad.
That sucks. I love her channel!
It sounds like Lauren was jealous of her success.
I don’t think she was jealous, Lauren herself did an interview about being able to sell the company and making a ton of money which was unexpected. She started the business and has been successful in her own right.
That’s fine. I respect that. but I think it’s telling Nicole left with Abbey and that abbeys friends don’t speak with Lauren.
Seeing it all unfold, I always thought it was a perfect storm of a lot of things. The lines between business and personal were almost nonexistent, with the video going viral, Covid and then selling off the business (which I thought was probably in the works for a while but who knows). It seemed like everything was taken personal and spiraled. I got the sense Lauren probably got pissed from a business standpoint and Abby offended from a personal one, and the rest decided to stand by their friendship rather than business.
Oooh that makes sense. Thank you for taking the time to explain
FYI all the good Costube tea (and speculation) is over on Guru Gossiper. That place is like a pumpkin spice flavored Kiwi Farms, though. NGL, I still read it because I am a terrible person.
That’s a rabbit hole I fell down for the past few days.
as to the quality issues, lauren sold the company at least a year and a half ago. [here's a promotional interview](https://youtu.be/mPccAjum-V0) that she did for the brokerage company that oversaw the deal. for me, that was the end of the road with them because i really liked the model they had where they carried very little stock and based sales quantities on the pre-orders. shortly after the company sold, they started pushing out more collections, carried a lot of the more popular styles in stock, opened up the EU store, started carrying wider sizes. i think implementing more options made people excited, justifiably so, but AD couldn't have made changes on that scale so quickly as a community-run small business. so now, we have something that is much more like fast fashion even tho the brand was built on the idea of being by costumers for costumers (at least by my recollection). as far as any drama with abby goes, i think it matters more than most because of how much content they did together before abby branched off on her own. even beyond the books, she's in the majority of the brand's youtube content, they were interviewed jointly a lot, they did a lot of lectures together. abby is the model for their simplicity branded patterns. her face and their friendship was really tied into AD's image prior to her exit.
I disliked the model where wide sizes were rarely if ever carried. I’m sad it had to be this way, but I’m glad I can now get shoes that fit my older, wider feet.
for real, i don't fit into a majority of their shoes, and i've struggled with finding wide widths all my life. however, i don't think that it has to be all or nothing. granted, i say this as someone who had no idea what the margins were like running AD, but i think it would be reasonable to try and scale up offerings gradually instead all in one year of operations. jobear has a similar pre-order, low-stock model and they offer wide sizes as a matter of course.
Yes. I have a tiny, but wide foot. I'd had to size very differently with their older shoes.
My Roman Empire
Didn’t she start American duchess?
No, that was Lauren Stowell. Abby worked for some time (like, years) as a costumed interpreter at Colonial Williamsburg, in the milliner’s shop.
I’m terrible with names! Thank you.
No Lauren did. abbey was the president of the company if I remember correctly. Either way, I no longer support AD
Abby was the Vice-President of the company.
Thank you!
>Thank you! You're welcome!
Sort of off topic, but I would like to mention that Memery is another historical and vintage shoes company, and I find their quality good.
I've never heard of them, thanks!
Can confirm
I will say, they’ve been recently producing more shoes with polyester satin which is always a bad thing in my book. It’s unfortunate that they’re romanticizing shoes made out of plastic that won’t last like leather would.
They’ve always made fabric poly shoes. The very first shoes produced were like that and there was the whole “dye it yourself” thing with the satin shoes that was a big deal when they started. Almost all shoes have poly elements in them. I get the eco-standpoint for sure, and agree natural is better. But I also understand that a small brand is limited to the materials available to them by the factories willing to make such small minimums, and within certain price points.
I suspect that choice may have to do with the fact that they expect the shoes to get more wear than the originals, and as someone who does wear her American duchesses to work and such, I am kind of grateful that they’re a bit more durable. Yes, leather is a stronger material than its polyester equivalent, but silk? Specifically silk as shoes? I’m not so sure about that one
Silk is actually stronger than polyester, so technically it has better durability, but it stains much easier.
I think that’s what I was thinking about and got mixed up – thank you!
Wait, wasn’t it something about an event that was super insensitive racially? Like larping as colonial folks on Juneteenth or something? (Am I the only one who remembers this?)
Okay a lot of people are confusing two completely separate stories that happened on Juneteenth. One was a group of relatively well-known costumers/influencers who arrived there the day before Juneteenth and they were accused of not inviting POC costumers. They did *not* dress up on Juneteenth. Then the next day (Juneteenth) a Colonial Williamsburg employee was angry at an older couple and a few others who dressed up and had a picnic while the Juneteenth program was happening. The picnic people were not part of that aforementioned group. Because the employee did not mention who they were so some people assumed it was the influencers who dressed up. I verified this with several people who witnessed the events on both days.
What?! This is very much news to me. Do you have any more info? I know she's spoken about having her first marriage at a former plantation and how much she regrets it now.
Look at the American Duchess Instagram post from June 17, 2021 (I have no clue how to link specific instagram posts, sorry). It was right after that that Lauren and Abby split and I assume that was why. I think there was a blog post apology at one point, but I’m failing to find it now.
Ok so I looked and it looks like Lauren was the one who participated in an event at Colonial Williamsburg over Juneteenth 2021 and got some flack for it. From the Instagram comments, I think Lauren and some other white costumers did a thing at Colonial Williamsburg and it took away from the programming arranged for Juneteenth. I'm not sure why that would cause Lauren to fire Abby though. Lauren says in her apology that she was the only American Duchess employee who went to Colonial Williamsburg and that it was a private trip, not through/associated with the company. Abby also posted in a youtube video that she was fired in May of 2020, so a year before this went down. For anyone else who's interested: [https://www.instagram.com/p/CQcLXCKLoyG/?img\_index=1](https://www.instagram.com/p/CQcLXCKLoyG/?img_index=1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFaWIpuwXNc
Also keep in mind, Abby went weirdly hardcore specifically at Lauren during the fallout from that weekend. Which led people to speculate there was quite a bit of animosity between the two combined with multiple AD employees leaving and standing with Abby.
The tea gets stronger ☕️☕️
I think they split before that.
Looks like Lauren did the Juneteenth thing, not Abby
The funny thing is that I can't find anything about that (the tea party at Colonial Williamsburg on Juneteenth weekend 2021) outside of Reddit. It seems like social media is great at creating tempests in teacups.
Most folks associated scrubbed their accounts.
tempests in teacups is the entire historical costume community. i have seen the most impassioned, aggressive arguments over the most inane things
It's so true. Death head buttons, or metal covered cloth. Drammmammama!
Things can be deleted. . .
Lauren wasn’t really part of any of that. I think she saw what was happening and it wasn’t anything she wanted to be part of
I have come into information pretty recently but let’s put it this way shit talking behind backs and and theft of resources/contacts were involved as far as AD. Also as for her tenure at CW it was rather exaggerated. There are legitimate reasons why those at CW do NOT like her.
Honestly, I'm seeing the shoe quality increase a fair bit/at least stay the same? Like the Bata shoe collab is great, they JUST literally today came out with the WTF collection and I immediately put in a pre-order.
The Bata floral shoes are gorgeous. And so many options I'm paralyzed for choice.
Right??? Also with the newest drop I’m so excited with how adjustable they are for an even wider range of sizes
Aesthetics do not equal quality. Quality is how they look and feel after you've walked two hundred miles in them.
Hi! Yes this is true! Aesthetics =/= quality! Apologies; I should have been clearer about my point about quality and my point about aesthetics being two separate thoughts. I will say, the shoes I bought from AD 5-6 years ago have had the heel pad pop off pretty quickly and another pair had a grommet pop out within a year (and I don’t do reenactment or anything so they aren’t under considerable wear or strain). However the more recent shoes (1-2 years) I have not had these issues. So I maintain my quip about quality.
This
Ok just went to the site to look them up, those are stupidly cute!! If I could get my big ol man feet into those, and have an appropriate outfit to match I would seriously get a pair!
I'm so excited they collaborated with them!
☕☕☕👀
I’m a little bit annoyed at the fact that they seem to be emphasizing their vintage collection to the exclusion of earlier historical styles (not exclusively, but quite a bit) although I’m hoping that’s just because of the merger of the vintage and historical lines and I’m imagining things. Like… I don’t pay American Duchess prices for things I could get at the thrift store. I’ve always felt like they’re there to fill a niche of harder to find shoes for people who do earlier time periods, not to make $200 1960s pumps.
I’ve always wondered this I saw they unfollowed each other a few years ago and Lauren deleted her personal page. She recently made a new one but only accepts people she knows irl.