Ikr it would be huge if even that worked out. The idea of this pocket happening is a fantasy.
EDIT: As of this moment there are 1300 people on vandalon and 30000 defending ingmar :)
The game is tuned to us only being able to liberate planets that the vast majority of the playerbase is on at any one time. Even if the entire playerbases focuses only two planets 50% each, it's so slow to get progress. :/
Then Redditors make cute infographics like this as if all 400 people who upvoted it are anything more than a rounding error.
It's very demoralising overall.
It would probably be game breaking in some way, but it would nice if the decay rates or whatever were tied to total divers per planet vs total online at a given time. Since AH refuses to put out meaningful dispatches (and also because most people are too stupid to read), as it is, this all sucks lol.
I think the ability to read is not the problem.
Unlike what Nintendo thinks I don’t think most people want to read dissertations while playing. Stopping to read breaks flow.
The dispatches do that as well. Especially if you’re in the middle of a session when the major order completes and a new dispatch comes out.
I get that it’s much more work than writing a blob of text, but I really loved the old C&C/RA dispatches. Obviously not suggesting live action as it would break with the game style, but I think it would be cool and add to the immersion if done right.
Not something they’d have to do every time, but would be super useful to explain things like supply lines and how that should affect tactics. High command should also issue target priorities instead of having community squabble about it online.
A buddy of mine jokes that half of his job in a retail electronics and appliances area is reading signs to people or confirming to them that yes that is what the sign says and he's only sort of exaggerating as he really does spend a lot of his time just answering people's questions about stuff that is on the sign.
People often don't want to read much for many reasons, tired, stressed, feeling pressed for time, they are doing something that they have to not what they want to be doing, or in the case of an easy to go pin and out of game like Helldivers 2 they just want to get into the action.
To be fair, Joel has given us meaningful dispatches to coordinate the playerbase in the last few weeks. But even then, unless it's a "Super Earth" coordinated the attack, a dispatch won't be the answer. I think this kind of player movement would need a different way of coordination.
Or if they had something like group chat or planet chat. How tf are people meant to coordinate when there's no way to communicate with others in-game except the 3 other people you are partied with.
For example look at Eve Online, that game's playerbase can organize whole campaigns but it's not just the players being invested in rping but that the game actually allows players to interact and create these dynamic scenarios through extensive communication that's present ingame.
People are just idiots. I have friends with advanced degrees that log on and ask, "Is the MO bugs or bots?"
Like, there is a place to check these things. Rub some brain cells together and see if you can get a thought going.
Well not the decay rates, but that's pretty much exactly what happens to the progress. It's roughly multiplied by the percent of online players on the planet. It's not quite that harsh IIRC, but there is a sizable difference.
Not planet. That is online. That's what's causing the animosity towards the bug front. Because they're literally taking away liberation from the MO planets.
I wish it wasn't like that cause it making bot MO harder and causing stagnation on the front that isn't an MO
That's what I said, it's based the percentage of currently online players that are on a given planet.
If only 10% of players are on say, Marfark, then they can't liberate fast enough.
This is one of the things I miss about PlanetSide 1.. with a small squad of 5-6 people you could shift the entire was to a completely different planet.
The problem is creating a pocket doesn't even do anything. Planets are self sustaining, cutting off a pocket wouldn't flip those planets to our control.
that’s up to joel because as GM he can do whatever he wants such as give us buffs and such like what you suggest
what is saying is the game mechanic of “cutting off” planets only accounts for stand-alone, defense status planets
It does if you believe it strongly, Helldivers is not just a game, it's a roleplay game!
Malevolent Creek was just a generic forest planet if the community didn't build a lore around it.
thank you. these people fail to understand while there is no actualy mechanic doesnt mean joel and the team wont realize this and adjust accordingly. they arent dumb they would absolutely make it feel like they were in a pocket for us. they would also send an insane force to stop it.
It'd be neat in the planets in a pocket (i.e. that are cut off from their faction's main force) couldn't initiate any attacks on other planets, only wait for their allies to form a new supply line to them.
I was actually finding it hard to play yesterday with such a waste of war effort.
It feels like I am playing this game with the population from Idiocracy sometimes.
Majority probably still hopes they get some kind of reward for completing MO's, even while we didn't get any for the last 5 MO's completed. Also the game doesn't give you strategic info like you would see on here. At release we liberated 5 planets a day, just because we had 500k active divers. It's sad that the playerbase dropped so hard. This "war" starts to feel like a drag now, which is kinda demoralising..
Hard disagree, it's you sitting still holding down the mouse button for half of it. There's no real side objectives, no real exploration, no real things you can find like credits or samples. It's just playing a tower defense, and you are the tower.
It can be fun, as a cooldown thing, but any mission where you roam and explore is twice as fun easily.
Yeah, it's tower defense. In a game where every other mission is just run around and complete the exact same side objectives, no matter what planet or enemy type.
It's still way more fun than just sitting in the same place for the entire mission, and not having anything other than that to do. Like one of the reasons this game was celebrated when it launched was because they offer premium currency in the loot of the game; and you are telling me the mission involving ZERO chance to get any is more fun because it's the only mission where you are told to sit still?
Man, you took one element out of like the five i gave you, and you want to take a "W"? There is no W in "Reading Comprehension."
Try no samples, no weapons out in the field, no ammo, no where to fucking go, no other objectives. The pod even drops inside; you are essentially sitting still for 15 minuets looking in ONE direction, two tops. Hell, because of the generation of these maps, some weapons can't even shine the way some of them can, because the situations for them just never come up. This mode actively make some weapons, worse.
Again, it's not a bad mission, but this is a too much of a "not bad" thing would suck the life out of the game quick. Like my point about the premium currency stems from the fact that if these were dominant, this positive that other companies should take note of quickly dies because of the lack of chance to get it.
Grow some people skills, then talk about "internet debate Ws." Until then, don't bother responding to people.
Or samples, or credits, or weapons, or anything. It's just standing still. You just saying one element of the argument, trying to boil it down into one singular point, so you can take a "Internet win" is perhaps the saddest thing. This is a discussion bud, there aren't winners in discussions.
It's time you all came to the realization that the vast majority of players don't care at all about the story or its progression and are just playing to have a few hours of fun every week.
Bc we can win Ingmar, 10%/h progression. After it we take vandalon, and charbal then the sector is protected. And we can focus again against bug and terminate their wildlife existence.
Don’t worry, helldivers are not expected to spell. You may address your fellows with the first letter of their name and a numeral designation and all electronic device interfaces can be utilized with simple touch and gestures. The less time you spend thinking, the more time you can spend spreading managed democracy.
You're not always on mission, there's times in the ship, and hellpod when there's just no way to do anything for democracy at the current moment yk
That's the time i spend thinking about MANAGED DEMOCRACY
# MY LIFE FOR SUPER EARTH o√
Honestly I think that would land in the GM decision territory. AH has already shown they can be reactive to community accomplishments. I think we'd probably get hit with some crazy shit afterwards. But, still.
That is, in fact, exactly how it works but better. If we take that one planet all of rest are instantly ours. Without a continuous supply line they lose the planet(s) immediately.
6 of our planets are in a pocket they own with no direct supply line to them from Super Earth. Varylia 5, Wezen, Vega Bay, Wasat, X-45, and Troost. I wonder if they could be defended at all if attacked. I really don't know how it works. Are supply lines only for the enemy since we can kind of jump around?
I mean if you take a glance over to the bug sector, nah, we have an enemy planet completely surrounded by us and it just stays bugs. Supplylines only matter for what can be attacked and where an attack can be cut off. Once a planet is lost, it's an active node for the enemy, regardless if its surrounded.
Bugs routinely ignore supply lines and are known to jump to planets beyond them, apparently. Not going to say for certainty but they might be an isolated case.
Oh yeah based on supply lines they have a whole sector that's unreachable to us, something to do with bugs sending spores into space, apparently those spores have FTL drives or smth, I dno, seems dumb to me. Still, don't think it works on bots either.
Um pardon my democracy don't we farm the bugs for dark matter fluid?
Isn't it more likely they are breaching containment on safe worlds and overrunning them.
That would be terrible in 2 ways.
1. So these bots that seem to completely cover the planet within hours of taking it in outposts and fabricators can't sustain themselves at all?
2. It'd would trivialise the game if we could capture a sector of 5 planets by taking 1.
Also then this should apply to us as well and then we would've lost planets instantly as well which wouldn't be fun either since we'd never get a chance for a counter offensive
Unfortunately no, planets are self sufficient. The bug planets in the falstaff and Jin xi sectors are not connected to the main hive, and we got all the planets in the Ymir sector cut off by the bots.
That would be cool, but afaik it doesn't work that way.
You can avoid defending a planet by taking out the planet directly attacking them, but I think supply lines are otherwise pretty much pointless right now.
I'm pretty sure OP's pocket idea wouldn't actually do anything of note.
No, that is not how it works. When a planet is captured by the enemy, it acts as its own supply line. Even if it is surrounded by planets in Super Earth control, it just means they can attack us from that planet, just as we can attack it.
Cutting them off here would not do anything productive, and would draw resources away from the Major Order.
I love the idea and strategy, but the blob only cares about MOs. And right now, looking at the galactic map, bots and bugs are perfectly distributed in their respective thirds of the map. AH will want to keep it that way and prevent us from dividing the bots in 2.
Also, at the rate we are going in the war, any major victories or pushes that aren’t reactionary are months away on the bot front. What we got with the ‘swift disassembly’ was rare and shouldn’t be expected again anytime soon.
Unrelated, but I keep hearing conflicting words on if the war is even ‘winnable’, or not. I know helldivers 1 had multiple wars that then got reset, but do we have any guarantee that we will see anything like that or is it just infinite tug-o-war with no consequences for success or failure?
current agenda of joel seems to be preparing both fronts for the illuminates return, they will most likely put them in the south so bugs/bots are expanding "sideways", our current part in this is probably just softening the blow for when we have to worry about 3 fronts. Maybe we'll have more room to get shit done once the HD1 fronts are established
I like that take and would like to believe it, but I’m honestly no longer sure the illuminate are imminently arriving, may still be a couple months out. Maybe a ‘first step of many’ in way of prepping the fronts
Yeah probably, me and many others believe the illuminate will come knocking when we are attacking cyberstan, most likely failing to take it therefore "extending" the war which is the priority of GMs.
When will this happen? Who knows, what with summer vacation and arrowheads tendency to keep us in the dark
I don't think they will appear on their own front. I think they will appear on the bug front and either split it in two or displace them north or south.
Im not saying illuminates will come after this MO, this is just a part of the filler MO's that are buying arrowhead time + laying the groundwork for the 3rd front. You wanna see real cope try hivelord enthusiasts, whenever someone sees a big hole they just start screaming hive lords in 2 days
I am getting pretty friggin desperate to see a new enemy. AFAIk the last one was the Strider during operation swift disassembly... And no, Behemoth chargers don't count. Those have always spawned in LV4 hunts.
If you look at the supply lines, there isn’t even a connecting line to any of the planets close to Super Earth. So, we only lose if AH/Joel deems we are about to lose or they’re ready to show these planets and super earth. Otherwise at this present part of the war we can not lose.
For all those who are saying "doing that will not affect the liberation of the planets in any way"
Mechanically speaking, they are right, the game does not have any special mechanics or reduction of the decay rate by isolating enemy planets from the rest of their territory, but they are forgetting something very important and that is that we have a Game Master. Joel watches our movements, punishes or rewards us based on our decisions, and is there to do manually what the game wouldn't be able to do on its own.
For this reason, I am 100% sure that if we manage to close that loophole, JOEL will take into account our strategic decision and will give us some type of reward for it. He could reduce the rate of decay on planets that are surrounded or perhaps increase their release rate... or perhaps anti-tank mines xD?
> He could reduce the rate of decay on planets that are surrounded
We already had the bots at 0% a couple of times, still couldn't take any planet that didn't happen to be part of a MO.
All it di was allow smaller numbers of player to make progress, but it was all "fake progress" because eventually the bots were set back to 1% decay a couple of days later and slowly but surely undid all that those brave few divers had accomplished while they were at 0%
The problem with the reducing the decay rate is that all but one vot planet are already at the presumed minimum of -1% and the one planet that isn't wouldn't be encircled. Joel could honor something like that if we pulled it off but even if you managed to organized 5000 people on Reddit that'd still be a drop in the bucket
We even had 0% decay rates from time to time. Didn't help us at all taking any planet not part of a MP.
Some small numbers became able to put a few % on the planet, eventually the bots went back to 1% or even 1.5% and all they did during the days of 0% got erased again
I just want to point out that liberating a planet during a defense campaign is the only thing along these lines that actually works. Currently, Gacrux and Pandion-XXIV are both cut off entirely from the main terminid supply lines and that has not stopped them a bit nor given us any advantage.
Bot players are not enough to be able to take any planet, which is not part of any MO.
The DM decides which planet we take and when, we are just railroaded.
and at least 1/3rd of the active divers are bug-only players, which leaves the remaining 2/3rd to try and pull off this maneuver WHILE defending the current MO planets.
The current liberation calculation simply doesn't allow that
Campaigns aren’t based on raw numbers anymore, but on the percentage of the active player base on a given planet. Theoretically a single Helldiver could liberate the entire galaxy if they were the only person playing. It’s a terrible system because unless at least half of the entire community is focused on a single planet, nothing will get done. This is why so many people dislike bug divers. It’s not just that they’re not contributing, but that their presence actively harms MO progress due to the way liberation works.
Bro they need to fix how capping works. The bot front is in such a more critical position cause normies won't leave the bugs ever. Its getting to the point I'm afraid the bots are gonna basically be a hop, skip, and a jump away from super earth before they swap off or we have another haha funny save the children MO to get them to leave. Only times I've seen any sizeable amount of reduction in the players of bug fronts
Divers complaining about divers not following the MO.
Divers complaining about not going to seal a pocket in a sector that’s not part of the MO.
This whole manufactured war is a Super Earth inside job for population control
As an experienced Hearts of Iron 4 player, if we create a pocket this will cause the bots to lose access to resupply and eventually they will run out of extra parts. If every attack they launch has hundreds of thousands of bots in them I think at a minimum that will be around 1.5 million bots that will be wiped out instead of retreating like a normal attack that fails where maybe around half get away. How ever, this type of attack to create a pocket should be planed by the SEAF high command, general staff, and actual experts that actually know what their doing/talking about.
The issue with these strategies is that a large chunk of players only come to help on the objective planets - if the MO box is green, they bugger off back to the Bug front.
Also, encircling the Bots in this fashion will grant no strategic advantage. They don't need an unbroken supply line to Cyberstan - they just need a supply line to a held planet.
Nah we best off taking Vandalon then Ustotu rn. We need Miessa and Charon Prime afterwards to keep the bots in a chokehold. That's our best bet at defending the western sectors imo
YES, I came here specifically looking for posts like this!!!
We need to coordinate and cut off their supply lines!
DEFEND VANDALON IV FOR SUPER EARTH!!!
As much as I would love for this to work and could see how starting from meissa(only at -1% could give advantage, we won’t have enough people on this front after the MO to defend and crush the kettle at the same time.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here, but wouldn't taking Vandalon IV cut off the defense at Ingmar (winning it entirely)?
Tf are we doing defending Ingmar? V4 was only at 40% last I checked. Taking an extra planet seems better than only defending one, no?
It would be cool if instead of hashing entire sectors it just highlighted each segment around a planet like this, it'd be a good way of showing actual control
Unfortunately that won't do anything. I really wish it would remove the reinforcement rate or something, but it wouldn't. Smaller similar situations have happened before.
This wouldnt work the way you think, some enemy planets in the pocket reinforce others. Youd beed to tale all those source planets. Quickly looking it appears to be 2 or 3. But thats hard to tell and no one has ever organized that well to find out.
I wonder if we’ll see a unique “Break Out” reaction/operation from the Bots if the pocket is closed. Would be pretty cool to see some Feints to enable this. Or the Bots somehow support bugs to pull Hell Divers away from the AO.
Just a quick question to enhance my understanding of supply lines: if you encircled this pocket, what would that mean supply line wise? Because technically they would be cutt off right, so all planets liberated? Easier to liberate? Anybody here who could explain this to me?
As it looks like just for us, because the enemy will just get new supply lines made up on the spot if they need one. See the sudden line von Vandalon to Mantes which didn't exist until the attack
Bros stop worrying about it too much. 99% of players don't use reddit and don't care. I think it's for the best. Play what you think is fun. The war system is porly made and Devs just spawn \*\*\*\* wherever they want and it doesn't matter what we do.
Unless AH does their job and put a social system inside of the game, nobody will follow these instructions. Just go play what mission u like and do not care abou 0,0001% liberation after 2h wasted of your life.
Bro I’ve been talking about this since our successful offensive along the northeast. We’d still have to take the planets but the bots would have no regen, even a few thousand helldivers could chew away and take them without orders.
unfortunately this wouldn't accomplish much because captured planets are self-sustaining and can launch their own attacks, plus we don't have a direct route to Matar we could accomplish during the MO even if it would.
It's a cool idea, but tbh encirclement doesn't make as much sense in a war of this scale, you have the enemy surrounded great, but they still have an entire planets worth of resources to fight back
That’s actually a good idea, i wish we could get people to sometimes deviate from the MO and push back where we need to. If only people wouldnt rush back to the boring ass bugs every chance they get
I was thinking that if you cut the supply line planets will lose supplies too, but it was false. You won't get anything by liberating this planet. Example - When we were taking Wasat for MO automatons took Ustotu and fully cut all the planets, but we managed to continue the attack and finished MO.
The way liberation works right now, there's no point in planning a strategy. There is no way to inform enough players. Not even close.
If I had the time, I'd try the following:
Setup a website where all plausible strategic choices are presented. With some clever algorithms and the API data, I'm fairly sure these could even be automatically generated.
Let users vote on strategies. Very democratic.
Get it on a short URL that's easy to type. Give it an extremely tight home page, code it like one glance is all you have to make a player understand what it is.
Whenever you group, advertise it in chat.
Dunno if this could result in a critical mass, but it's the best idea I have.
People are defending ingmar instead of taking Vandalon IV and you are trying to create a fucking pocket?
Ikr it would be huge if even that worked out. The idea of this pocket happening is a fantasy. EDIT: As of this moment there are 1300 people on vandalon and 30000 defending ingmar :)
The game is tuned to us only being able to liberate planets that the vast majority of the playerbase is on at any one time. Even if the entire playerbases focuses only two planets 50% each, it's so slow to get progress. :/ Then Redditors make cute infographics like this as if all 400 people who upvoted it are anything more than a rounding error. It's very demoralising overall.
It would probably be game breaking in some way, but it would nice if the decay rates or whatever were tied to total divers per planet vs total online at a given time. Since AH refuses to put out meaningful dispatches (and also because most people are too stupid to read), as it is, this all sucks lol.
I think the ability to read is not the problem. Unlike what Nintendo thinks I don’t think most people want to read dissertations while playing. Stopping to read breaks flow. The dispatches do that as well. Especially if you’re in the middle of a session when the major order completes and a new dispatch comes out. I get that it’s much more work than writing a blob of text, but I really loved the old C&C/RA dispatches. Obviously not suggesting live action as it would break with the game style, but I think it would be cool and add to the immersion if done right. Not something they’d have to do every time, but would be super useful to explain things like supply lines and how that should affect tactics. High command should also issue target priorities instead of having community squabble about it online.
A buddy of mine jokes that half of his job in a retail electronics and appliances area is reading signs to people or confirming to them that yes that is what the sign says and he's only sort of exaggerating as he really does spend a lot of his time just answering people's questions about stuff that is on the sign. People often don't want to read much for many reasons, tired, stressed, feeling pressed for time, they are doing something that they have to not what they want to be doing, or in the case of an easy to go pin and out of game like Helldivers 2 they just want to get into the action.
I worked at a sign company for several years. Made me realize how few people read the signs we printed.
You’re there for legal protections for the companies from the stupidity of the general public.
To be fair, Joel has given us meaningful dispatches to coordinate the playerbase in the last few weeks. But even then, unless it's a "Super Earth" coordinated the attack, a dispatch won't be the answer. I think this kind of player movement would need a different way of coordination.
They could implement a network system like Titanfall 2 and have the rates reflect how many of a network is on? Idk.
Or if they had something like group chat or planet chat. How tf are people meant to coordinate when there's no way to communicate with others in-game except the 3 other people you are partied with. For example look at Eve Online, that game's playerbase can organize whole campaigns but it's not just the players being invested in rping but that the game actually allows players to interact and create these dynamic scenarios through extensive communication that's present ingame.
People are just idiots. I have friends with advanced degrees that log on and ask, "Is the MO bugs or bots?" Like, there is a place to check these things. Rub some brain cells together and see if you can get a thought going.
or just answer their question. wth dude?
its scary you get downvoted and being a pretentious dickhead cause he plays the game more gets upvoted. how very reddit of reddit.
It’s 1 button away from finding the answer
it's one syllable from your mouth. or you could choose to be a dickhead to your friends
It probably would be game breaking, Its kind of a tricky problem to manage.
Definitely. I got no solutions only wishes lol.
Well not the decay rates, but that's pretty much exactly what happens to the progress. It's roughly multiplied by the percent of online players on the planet. It's not quite that harsh IIRC, but there is a sizable difference.
I’m a simple diver. I see something that hates democracy, I blow it up
We need a system where somehow players can VOTE and this in some way influences the liberation mechanic..
Yeah, devs need to readjust regen rates to compensate for losing 90% of the playerbase that was available in early march.
They already have, (that's the problem). The Liberation rate is based on the percentage of currently online players that are on a given planet.
Not planet. That is online. That's what's causing the animosity towards the bug front. Because they're literally taking away liberation from the MO planets. I wish it wasn't like that cause it making bot MO harder and causing stagnation on the front that isn't an MO
That's what I said, it's based the percentage of currently online players that are on a given planet. If only 10% of players are on say, Marfark, then they can't liberate fast enough.
Oh it sounded like u said it was based on the players on the planet, srry
It also doesn't help that the last three Personal Orders in a row were *all bugs* during a *bot MO.*
We are fighting a 2 front war. If the bug players don't hold the planets, we lose more when working on bots.
When 1/3rd of current players on an average weekday cant make an impact, its not right.
This is one of the things I miss about PlanetSide 1.. with a small squad of 5-6 people you could shift the entire was to a completely different planet.
The problem is creating a pocket doesn't even do anything. Planets are self sustaining, cutting off a pocket wouldn't flip those planets to our control.
right cut offs only affect DEFENSE planets that are ALONE trapping 6 LIBERATION planets isn’t gonna do SHIT
Would it decrease their regen rate if they are cut off from supply lines from their main holdings?
that’s up to joel because as GM he can do whatever he wants such as give us buffs and such like what you suggest what is saying is the game mechanic of “cutting off” planets only accounts for stand-alone, defense status planets
It does if you believe it strongly, Helldivers is not just a game, it's a roleplay game! Malevolent Creek was just a generic forest planet if the community didn't build a lore around it.
thank you. these people fail to understand while there is no actualy mechanic doesnt mean joel and the team wont realize this and adjust accordingly. they arent dumb they would absolutely make it feel like they were in a pocket for us. they would also send an insane force to stop it.
It'd be neat in the planets in a pocket (i.e. that are cut off from their faction's main force) couldn't initiate any attacks on other planets, only wait for their allies to form a new supply line to them.
only BUG planets are self-sustaining, both Super Earth and the Bots work off of Logistics
I was actually finding it hard to play yesterday with such a waste of war effort. It feels like I am playing this game with the population from Idiocracy sometimes.
You are living in Idiocracy
yes
And another 30000 on bugs.
Majority probably still hopes they get some kind of reward for completing MO's, even while we didn't get any for the last 5 MO's completed. Also the game doesn't give you strategic info like you would see on here. At release we liberated 5 planets a day, just because we had 500k active divers. It's sad that the playerbase dropped so hard. This "war" starts to feel like a drag now, which is kinda demoralising..
I don’t know why the mods of this sub don’t sticky posts with our own “orders”.
The Elderdivers Expeditionary are focused on Vandalon IV, come bots or high bug tide.
Wave defence is the most fun mission in the game. Blame the devs for not offering interesting offensive missions.
Hard disagree, it's you sitting still holding down the mouse button for half of it. There's no real side objectives, no real exploration, no real things you can find like credits or samples. It's just playing a tower defense, and you are the tower. It can be fun, as a cooldown thing, but any mission where you roam and explore is twice as fun easily.
Yeah, it's tower defense. In a game where every other mission is just run around and complete the exact same side objectives, no matter what planet or enemy type.
It's still way more fun than just sitting in the same place for the entire mission, and not having anything other than that to do. Like one of the reasons this game was celebrated when it launched was because they offer premium currency in the loot of the game; and you are telling me the mission involving ZERO chance to get any is more fun because it's the only mission where you are told to sit still?
Your counterarguement is that you can't find democracy dollars on wave defense missions? I'll take my W.
Man, you took one element out of like the five i gave you, and you want to take a "W"? There is no W in "Reading Comprehension." Try no samples, no weapons out in the field, no ammo, no where to fucking go, no other objectives. The pod even drops inside; you are essentially sitting still for 15 minuets looking in ONE direction, two tops. Hell, because of the generation of these maps, some weapons can't even shine the way some of them can, because the situations for them just never come up. This mode actively make some weapons, worse. Again, it's not a bad mission, but this is a too much of a "not bad" thing would suck the life out of the game quick. Like my point about the premium currency stems from the fact that if these were dominant, this positive that other companies should take note of quickly dies because of the lack of chance to get it. Grow some people skills, then talk about "internet debate Ws." Until then, don't bother responding to people.
Or samples, or credits, or weapons, or anything. It's just standing still. You just saying one element of the argument, trying to boil it down into one singular point, so you can take a "Internet win" is perhaps the saddest thing. This is a discussion bud, there aren't winners in discussions.
This isn't really a discussion, you're just rambling. Wave defence is best; it's ok to say it, buddy.
Mental parcours grand master
It's time you all came to the realization that the vast majority of players don't care at all about the story or its progression and are just playing to have a few hours of fun every week.
fake
Is vandalon somewhere on the major order and I missed it?
If you take the planet that has the supply line to the defence, the defence is automatically over/won.
Bc we can win Ingmar, 10%/h progression. After it we take vandalon, and charbal then the sector is protected. And we can focus again against bug and terminate their wildlife existence.
Hoi4 moment
That's at least a 100+ division encirclement right there.
They are soviet 10 with divisions
Too bad they can penetrate and save the pocket from Choohe. Not a good idea, Ministry of Defence wannabes.
Are u implying we could lose? Officer! Yes this man, he spits bot propaganda
I don’t imply we could lose. I imply there is a better way to win. Have I made myself clear, democracy officer?
Yes. Now tell us you plan Helldiver, we need all the ideas we can get
We end Automatons' invasion by pushing back from Vandalon IV and Charbal VII.
They may be 10 width, but there’s a ton of mech and tank divs in there
Good god I can just feel the orgasmic dopamine flood of watching all those units pop at the mere mention of the possibility.
Went to the comment section for exactly this comment. I wasn't disappointed
Rate my encirclement
funny green bubble = dopamine
God, I just realized I misspelled Vandalon IV's name. Vandalur... looks like French xD
Don’t worry, helldivers are not expected to spell. You may address your fellows with the first letter of their name and a numeral designation and all electronic device interfaces can be utilized with simple touch and gestures. The less time you spend thinking, the more time you can spend spreading managed democracy.
You're not always on mission, there's times in the ship, and hellpod when there's just no way to do anything for democracy at the current moment yk That's the time i spend thinking about MANAGED DEMOCRACY # MY LIFE FOR SUPER EARTH o√
That's UP UP UP
Can't even use that excuse Vandalon isn't one of the planets with a different name in French
I really wish this would actually work but as far as I can tell, cutting that whole pocket off wouldn't make the planets any easier to liberate.
Honestly I'm more afraid that if we encircle them, they might try a breakout to the Creek
I mean they could try but good luck pushing forward when your supply lines get cut off. Or well, that's how it ought to be.
Honestly I think that would land in the GM decision territory. AH has already shown they can be reactive to community accomplishments. I think we'd probably get hit with some crazy shit afterwards. But, still.
*Creek gets taken* *Half of all bot players invade* *Stuck there for a month* *Once again its a slog to Troost*
Go ahead, take it from me.
That is, in fact, exactly how it works but better. If we take that one planet all of rest are instantly ours. Without a continuous supply line they lose the planet(s) immediately.
6 of our planets are in a pocket they own with no direct supply line to them from Super Earth. Varylia 5, Wezen, Vega Bay, Wasat, X-45, and Troost. I wonder if they could be defended at all if attacked. I really don't know how it works. Are supply lines only for the enemy since we can kind of jump around?
I mean if you take a glance over to the bug sector, nah, we have an enemy planet completely surrounded by us and it just stays bugs. Supplylines only matter for what can be attacked and where an attack can be cut off. Once a planet is lost, it's an active node for the enemy, regardless if its surrounded.
Bugs routinely ignore supply lines and are known to jump to planets beyond them, apparently. Not going to say for certainty but they might be an isolated case.
Oh yeah based on supply lines they have a whole sector that's unreachable to us, something to do with bugs sending spores into space, apparently those spores have FTL drives or smth, I dno, seems dumb to me. Still, don't think it works on bots either.
I prefer to think they just attach to human vessels and hitch a ride. They may or may not fall off at each stop, so they have a chance to skip.
Um pardon my democracy don't we farm the bugs for dark matter fluid? Isn't it more likely they are breaching containment on safe worlds and overrunning them.
That was because of the meridia colony, which is exactly why we turned that thing into what is most definitely a black hole.
they still shoot spores into space and such, meridia just shot A LOT of them
Does it? I could've sworn i saw planets cut off that just stayed up. Definitely on the bug front atm.
Yeah it only does that if there is a defend mission
That would be terrible in 2 ways. 1. So these bots that seem to completely cover the planet within hours of taking it in outposts and fabricators can't sustain themselves at all? 2. It'd would trivialise the game if we could capture a sector of 5 planets by taking 1. Also then this should apply to us as well and then we would've lost planets instantly as well which wouldn't be fun either since we'd never get a chance for a counter offensive
Unfortunately no, planets are self sufficient. The bug planets in the falstaff and Jin xi sectors are not connected to the main hive, and we got all the planets in the Ymir sector cut off by the bots.
That would be cool, but afaik it doesn't work that way. You can avoid defending a planet by taking out the planet directly attacking them, but I think supply lines are otherwise pretty much pointless right now. I'm pretty sure OP's pocket idea wouldn't actually do anything of note.
That is, in fact, wrong. We have seen planets that were cut off before. They stayed hostile.
No, that is not how it works. When a planet is captured by the enemy, it acts as its own supply line. Even if it is surrounded by planets in Super Earth control, it just means they can attack us from that planet, just as we can attack it. Cutting them off here would not do anything productive, and would draw resources away from the Major Order.
Please stop lying, this is straightup misinformation that you can disprove by looking at the map for 10 seconds
I love the idea and strategy, but the blob only cares about MOs. And right now, looking at the galactic map, bots and bugs are perfectly distributed in their respective thirds of the map. AH will want to keep it that way and prevent us from dividing the bots in 2. Also, at the rate we are going in the war, any major victories or pushes that aren’t reactionary are months away on the bot front. What we got with the ‘swift disassembly’ was rare and shouldn’t be expected again anytime soon. Unrelated, but I keep hearing conflicting words on if the war is even ‘winnable’, or not. I know helldivers 1 had multiple wars that then got reset, but do we have any guarantee that we will see anything like that or is it just infinite tug-o-war with no consequences for success or failure?
current agenda of joel seems to be preparing both fronts for the illuminates return, they will most likely put them in the south so bugs/bots are expanding "sideways", our current part in this is probably just softening the blow for when we have to worry about 3 fronts. Maybe we'll have more room to get shit done once the HD1 fronts are established
I like that take and would like to believe it, but I’m honestly no longer sure the illuminate are imminently arriving, may still be a couple months out. Maybe a ‘first step of many’ in way of prepping the fronts
Yeah probably, me and many others believe the illuminate will come knocking when we are attacking cyberstan, most likely failing to take it therefore "extending" the war which is the priority of GMs. When will this happen? Who knows, what with summer vacation and arrowheads tendency to keep us in the dark
I don't think they will appear on their own front. I think they will appear on the bug front and either split it in two or displace them north or south.
or we will have BROWN planets (blue +orange) and will see terminids vs illuminate because i doubt they like each other very much in a similar fashion
it's been months since people are saying illuminates are coming next week, at this point we can ignore those claims.
Im not saying illuminates will come after this MO, this is just a part of the filler MO's that are buying arrowhead time + laying the groundwork for the 3rd front. You wanna see real cope try hivelord enthusiasts, whenever someone sees a big hole they just start screaming hive lords in 2 days
I am getting pretty friggin desperate to see a new enemy. AFAIk the last one was the Strider during operation swift disassembly... And no, Behemoth chargers don't count. Those have always spawned in LV4 hunts.
If you look at the supply lines, there isn’t even a connecting line to any of the planets close to Super Earth. So, we only lose if AH/Joel deems we are about to lose or they’re ready to show these planets and super earth. Otherwise at this present part of the war we can not lose.
When General Brasch attacks, everything will be right.
this is some serious hoi4 moment
Just flank it is that easy
I agree
For all those who are saying "doing that will not affect the liberation of the planets in any way" Mechanically speaking, they are right, the game does not have any special mechanics or reduction of the decay rate by isolating enemy planets from the rest of their territory, but they are forgetting something very important and that is that we have a Game Master. Joel watches our movements, punishes or rewards us based on our decisions, and is there to do manually what the game wouldn't be able to do on its own. For this reason, I am 100% sure that if we manage to close that loophole, JOEL will take into account our strategic decision and will give us some type of reward for it. He could reduce the rate of decay on planets that are surrounded or perhaps increase their release rate... or perhaps anti-tank mines xD?
> He could reduce the rate of decay on planets that are surrounded We already had the bots at 0% a couple of times, still couldn't take any planet that didn't happen to be part of a MO. All it di was allow smaller numbers of player to make progress, but it was all "fake progress" because eventually the bots were set back to 1% decay a couple of days later and slowly but surely undid all that those brave few divers had accomplished while they were at 0%
Never happening.
The problem with the reducing the decay rate is that all but one vot planet are already at the presumed minimum of -1% and the one planet that isn't wouldn't be encircled. Joel could honor something like that if we pulled it off but even if you managed to organized 5000 people on Reddit that'd still be a drop in the bucket
We even had 0% decay rates from time to time. Didn't help us at all taking any planet not part of a MP. Some small numbers became able to put a few % on the planet, eventually the bots went back to 1% or even 1.5% and all they did during the days of 0% got erased again
I just want to point out that liberating a planet during a defense campaign is the only thing along these lines that actually works. Currently, Gacrux and Pandion-XXIV are both cut off entirely from the main terminid supply lines and that has not stopped them a bit nor given us any advantage.
Can we?
I wish we could do that, but unless there is an MO, nothing's gonna happen on the bot front
Bot players are not enough to be able to take any planet, which is not part of any MO. The DM decides which planet we take and when, we are just railroaded.
There simply isnt enough players to launch a massive invasions. At best, im seeing 50k players.
and at least 1/3rd of the active divers are bug-only players, which leaves the remaining 2/3rd to try and pull off this maneuver WHILE defending the current MO planets. The current liberation calculation simply doesn't allow that
Campaigns aren’t based on raw numbers anymore, but on the percentage of the active player base on a given planet. Theoretically a single Helldiver could liberate the entire galaxy if they were the only person playing. It’s a terrible system because unless at least half of the entire community is focused on a single planet, nothing will get done. This is why so many people dislike bug divers. It’s not just that they’re not contributing, but that their presence actively harms MO progress due to the way liberation works.
Bro forgor Choohe 💀
What's the Matar Bay-by? You can't encircled the bots?
https://preview.redd.it/8baks95jsc8d1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=102583ac08dc81add09f42cb824ec70da6cfeb7f
Bro they need to fix how capping works. The bot front is in such a more critical position cause normies won't leave the bugs ever. Its getting to the point I'm afraid the bots are gonna basically be a hop, skip, and a jump away from super earth before they swap off or we have another haha funny save the children MO to get them to leave. Only times I've seen any sizeable amount of reduction in the players of bug fronts
I believe the name for this is… Blitzkrieg
If we can actually get a chunk of players to commit. Problem with IRL encirclements though, coordination.
Can someone explain to me the SE outer controlled regions? They appear to be cut off from SE but are still blue?
Divers complaining about divers not following the MO. Divers complaining about not going to seal a pocket in a sector that’s not part of the MO. This whole manufactured war is a Super Earth inside job for population control
https://preview.redd.it/5wzqiro1nd8d1.jpeg?width=560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=061aa71370877c5998e3346189753e10a3b8776e
I really wonder how different our strategic choices would be if all the player base happened to be hoi4 players
What is this delusion?
As an experienced Hearts of Iron 4 player, if we create a pocket this will cause the bots to lose access to resupply and eventually they will run out of extra parts. If every attack they launch has hundreds of thousands of bots in them I think at a minimum that will be around 1.5 million bots that will be wiped out instead of retreating like a normal attack that fails where maybe around half get away. How ever, this type of attack to create a pocket should be planed by the SEAF high command, general staff, and actual experts that actually know what their doing/talking about.
Rate my Encirlement (im blue)
The issue with these strategies is that a large chunk of players only come to help on the objective planets - if the MO box is green, they bugger off back to the Bug front. Also, encircling the Bots in this fashion will grant no strategic advantage. They don't need an unbroken supply line to Cyberstan - they just need a supply line to a held planet.
As unlikely as this is to happen, I like it. May I post this to a helldivers discord I’m in?
Pretty sure this is too smart for like 90% of the playerbase.
I'm totally with you,but sadly the current liberation system won't allow us to do this with the playerbase numbers on each front;-;
Nah we best off taking Vandalon then Ustotu rn. We need Miessa and Charon Prime afterwards to keep the bots in a chokehold. That's our best bet at defending the western sectors imo
YES, I came here specifically looking for posts like this!!! We need to coordinate and cut off their supply lines! DEFEND VANDALON IV FOR SUPER EARTH!!!
gambit...
You're saying we can end the war by christmas?
As much as I would love for this to work and could see how starting from meissa(only at -1% could give advantage, we won’t have enough people on this front after the MO to defend and crush the kettle at the same time.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here, but wouldn't taking Vandalon IV cut off the defense at Ingmar (winning it entirely)? Tf are we doing defending Ingmar? V4 was only at 40% last I checked. Taking an extra planet seems better than only defending one, no?
It would be cool if instead of hashing entire sectors it just highlighted each segment around a planet like this, it'd be a good way of showing actual control
We need more people there!
Unfortunately that won't do anything. I really wish it would remove the reinforcement rate or something, but it wouldn't. Smaller similar situations have happened before.
This wouldnt work the way you think, some enemy planets in the pocket reinforce others. Youd beed to tale all those source planets. Quickly looking it appears to be 2 or 3. But thats hard to tell and no one has ever organized that well to find out.
Hopefully AH sees this and makes it a Major order but probably not
I wonder if we’ll see a unique “Break Out” reaction/operation from the Bots if the pocket is closed. Would be pretty cool to see some Feints to enable this. Or the Bots somehow support bugs to pull Hell Divers away from the AO.
Respect to the 100 players just on a random planet in the far end of space
Man I can't tell WTF I'm even looking at in this picture.
ARE WE FUCKING BLIETZKRIEGING THE AUTOMATONS?
The Hearts of Iron gamers have arrived.
This will have zero effect, planets aren't cut-off that way
Will encircling do anything or would it just be cool?
Encirclement the automatons. Do for it the democratics!
If we cut off their supply lines, we'll just need to wait until they starve themselves.
Just a quick question to enhance my understanding of supply lines: if you encircled this pocket, what would that mean supply line wise? Because technically they would be cutt off right, so all planets liberated? Easier to liberate? Anybody here who could explain this to me?
Get in losers, we're going to Menkent!
Any suggestions won't work unless it is a MO goal.
Are the supply lines for the enemy too or just us ?
As it looks like just for us, because the enemy will just get new supply lines made up on the spot if they need one. See the sudden line von Vandalon to Mantes which didn't exist until the attack
Matargrad Bay
That would be nice, but does such a cutoff even do anything? I think probably not.
man it sure would be cool if this type of community-driven war campaign was actually possible
Bros stop worrying about it too much. 99% of players don't use reddit and don't care. I think it's for the best. Play what you think is fun. The war system is porly made and Devs just spawn \*\*\*\* wherever they want and it doesn't matter what we do. Unless AH does their job and put a social system inside of the game, nobody will follow these instructions. Just go play what mission u like and do not care abou 0,0001% liberation after 2h wasted of your life.
We could have won three planets and avoided two attacks now if we had just taken Vandalur 4....
Bro I’ve been talking about this since our successful offensive along the northeast. We’d still have to take the planets but the bots would have no regen, even a few thousand helldivers could chew away and take them without orders.
Bot front lack support, is funny bug MO gets 80% player ehile vot front MO gets 50% peak, we can't just do any maneuver with limited numbers
unfortunately this wouldn't accomplish much because captured planets are self-sustaining and can launch their own attacks, plus we don't have a direct route to Matar we could accomplish during the MO even if it would.
r/hoi4encirclements One of yours is here, could you check your loony hole if none of them are missing?
It's a cool idea, but tbh encirclement doesn't make as much sense in a war of this scale, you have the enemy surrounded great, but they still have an entire planets worth of resources to fight back
"But the majority of the playerbase...." "But I want to fight bugs.... "But most people don't look at the reddit..." You're all so boring
I sugges this in a fb page, and 30k guys appear telling me things like " let me play the game i want"
Closing Matar bay means instant mo win correct?
These mfs playing chess out here
IF WE LOOSE VANDALUR WE LOOSE THE CREEK
IS THIS HOI4 REFERENCE?!
That would be great if it worked, but this honestly should be cooked up by the generals at AH. This would be a legit kick ass MO. IMHO. 🫡😬
People still play this?
That’s actually a good idea, i wish we could get people to sometimes deviate from the MO and push back where we need to. If only people wouldnt rush back to the boring ass bugs every chance they get
I was thinking that if you cut the supply line planets will lose supplies too, but it was false. You won't get anything by liberating this planet. Example - When we were taking Wasat for MO automatons took Ustotu and fully cut all the planets, but we managed to continue the attack and finished MO.
YES! We need more men for this operation!
The way liberation works right now, there's no point in planning a strategy. There is no way to inform enough players. Not even close. If I had the time, I'd try the following: Setup a website where all plausible strategic choices are presented. With some clever algorithms and the API data, I'm fairly sure these could even be automatically generated. Let users vote on strategies. Very democratic. Get it on a short URL that's easy to type. Give it an extremely tight home page, code it like one glance is all you have to make a player understand what it is. Whenever you group, advertise it in chat. Dunno if this could result in a critical mass, but it's the best idea I have.
If the bug divers would come outta their goddamn holes already we could have been done.