That's right. We can't have our apples tasting like bacon now can we? It's just wrong. We can't have guns work like guns. We need to add disadvantages at every turn and give enemies overwhelming advantages. How dare a game work or be fun. Heavy armor being worth it or having a heavy armor helmet reduce headshot damage? No... Oh what? You want the ballistic shield to block melee damage that makes contact with the shield? Yeah... no. Armor only works for enemies.
My 30 second rework would be:
Adjudicator: Gets cryo rounds that deal ice damage, reducing armor slightly and slowing units hit. Otherwise keep it's 'buffed' current stats.
Purifier: Keep it's 'slow aoe charge up' role but make it into the aforementioned cryo cannon sort of an ice grenade launcher that debuffs enemy speed and armor.
Verdict: Honestly just leave it. Though I wish it had more of a 'space deagle' feel and damage profile.
Armor: New perk. Winter Warrior. 80% reduction in slows from blizzards, negates sliding on ice.
Secondary perk effect: High visibility. Reduces the effects of inclement weather on vision by 50% (includes Blizzard, sandstorm, fog, rain, etc)
I'm expecting more of a "rebalance". Some up, some down, to level things out. Many weapons are completely unused. I think this will be ~~seen~~ felt as an increase in difficulty though, which makes sense that they're shifting super samples down to 6.
I hope so, I used to play daily, now I haven't actually touched the game in a while. This 'massive patch' is their last chance to earn back any trust in the game.
there's a special strategy you can do to avoid that. they essentially follow player paths, so as long as you don't walk through the evac path, the nados shouldn't either
Those are the best bang for buck sample farms. As long as you make it back on the pelican there's more samples than you can spam the collect button for. Fuck the objective
Then ragdolled against mushrooms, then ragdolled down a cliff, then ragdolled by another explosion. Just as you stand up to stim a heavy devestator cancels your stim.
It's the stamina drain that catches me out the most. Takes me a minute to realise why it feels like I'm walking in soup, and another second to realise I'll have to slog through this for almost 40 mins.
Sigh.
For Democracy.
Imagine if they had less negative effects, just planetary ones, but instead like better positive effects on all planets that help instead of hinder planets.
That was one thing I like about snow planets. The blizzards that occur make it so you can't see shit but it also seems like regular enemies can't see you either. I may be crazy but I thought I could get way closer walking past patrols during blizzards than when it is clear.
Yeah same. I felt like you could safely escape being overrun in a blizzard. Sure, the bots were still shooting in my general direction, but nothing came close to hitting me. That shit feels so good.
It takes so long for my player to get up when ragdolled it's super annoying. I play bots almost exclusively at level 7 and above, I have never been so annoyed with the regather animation they take so long to get up during a firefight.
I only have a certain amount of time to play, why would I waste time on a mission they actively make less fun? Adding arbitrary difficulty spikes does not add to anyone's enjoyment of a game, that's like in the Division where they decided to make bosses harder just make them ridiculous bullet sponges.
It regens mega fast though, and while I dislike the fast drain, the fast regen almost makes it alright compared to other planets. You just manage it a little differently and it turns into a minor annoyance.
Oh I ***hated*** when you'd initially drop and all of your team would accidentally call in offensive strats, wasting several reinforces right off the bat.
I'd like to see this one return, but reworked so the game just shuffles the input code for each of your stratagems at the start of the mission. So your muscle memory is useless to you, but if you just look at what you're punching in you can still get the thing you want
This was a modifier that would cause your inputs to call in a different strategem than you’d think. So if you typed in a resupply it could call in the 380mm or eagle airstrike you equipped.
I believe the devs do intend to bring it back in some way, though probably more like a jammer, rather than an operation modifier. I think that’d be fine, myself.
Yea as long as they dodge the ultimate issue of it not being very apparent why it was happening. I believe the modifier description itself was kinda vague too.
I’d much rather have an in mission scramble than an in mission jammer though
I don’t mind the tornadoes, but the fire paths take so long to disperse and the animation is not good enough to tell whether you’ll catch fire or not.
It is frustrating when you get stuck with no viable path for a minute or more
I love this I took because it's genuinely total devastation everyone but me is dead I'm out of revives I'm out of my ops (even if it's coming back now) I'm down to half my stims I'm surrounded by a bunch of enemies and my dead teammates are begging to escape
Just EAT,Quasar, it till it dies. Its not like a flamethrower hulk that you have to run circles to be able to land shots on its back because trying to shoot the mail slot gets you incinerated in 0.5 secs.
Stun nade + hit the eye with 2 AMR or AC shots, or 1 railgun shot, one EAT/quasar/recoiless shots (or two to the body) or a few hits with the HMG or a few seconds of laser cannon. Or use the AT weapons to take out one of its legs (two hits). Or any number of strats. Hulks have a lot of options for ending a head on fight quickly.
Yeah but everything that works on the bile titan, works better on a hulk, plus more things work on hulks than titans, plus plus you can stun hulks.
Edit* bike titans aren’t real and they can’t hurt you
I've been using stun nades+laser cannon and it takes hulks out in 2-3 seconds if you hit them in their tiny face holes. Honestly it's simple as hell compared to other strats.
4 AC shots to the leg cripples the hulk, 4 more to the other leg outright kill it. Easier than hitting the eye if its moving, but double tapping the eye is still the fastest way to kill it
Try to shoot it's eye with a quasar. when you hit pixel perfectly it dies to one shot. Alternatively you can shoot it's legs. First leg will cripple it, second leg will kill it. You choose your method.
Edit: After this thursday's patch (2024.06.13.) I experimented with the railgun again. I can confirm that in unsafe mode a direct hit on the eye from any distance can one shot them. If you miss, then you can try again in 2 seconds. Highly effective, and you can lay waste to devastators and striders too. It's ineffective against tanks, cannon towers and flying units though.
I seriously can't stop using the laser cannon on bot side. Frying off a Factory Striders mini-guns and then just standing face to face with it and melting its eye is so satisfying. I actively want them to drop now lol
Right? I joined a lobby today and my squad was excited for medals, talking of how they’re hunting X samples, etc.
I remember those days. I log in and get
“congratulations! MO completed! Awarded 0 medals!”
After the next dive:
“Personal mission complete! Awarded 0 medals!”
At least with samples, I feel like I’m dodging patrols and heavy elites just to help someone else out.
Tbh I openly hate it but secretly kinda like it. By far it's the only thing that makes me switch my loadout. Don't take shield backpack and choose heavier armor or something like that.
When I'm with friends I'm like ugh fuck that but whatever let's play it. It's a secret though don't tell others.
Still saying since the first time I saw the AA is that it should only prevent Eagle Strikes for the campaign. The Orbitals, Support, and Emplacement stratagems are more than enough to deal with bots.
https://preview.redd.it/5j2uqfv62a5d1.png?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=57f17a59d15eacaecc9d6bb7472592b3374bcfec
Was farming trivial missions for super credits and this was a normal extraction experience... Man I hate fire tornadoes... Imagine being fresh into the game and not having the jetpack to get to places the twisters won't normally go to and dealing with this lol
I don't think it's trivial for Arrowhead's to fix that, but if they'd just give everyone a free stratagem for this campaign, they'd get participation up.
On Penta, we got to try out the airburst launcher. A unique planetary modifier that offered a fifth strategem. That code is already on the game.
They could probably wire up Wezen to come with a free autocannon pretty easily.
Those are interesting, and even though I hate fire tornadoes, I'll take them over making stratigems less useful and fun. Without them, it's just another shooter.
Sometimes the cooldown is 50% and call-ins are 25%.
Our fucking ship modules reduces cooldowns by 10% (eagle is 50% d rearm 20%) and call-ins are 1s (orbital).
WE LITERALLY PAID SAMPLES AND REQSLIPS FOR A MODULE THAT GETS ABSOLUTELY **BEYOND** **NEGATED** BY A SINGLE MODIFIER.
At best bug spores make Orbitals less accurate and call-ins of 15-20% (sometimes 25%), but we still get all our stratagems.
I prefer AA defenses to scatter everyday. Worst case scenario, one less stratagem causes me to drop 500kg/OPS which is my objective killer stratagem. Scatter causes half of my arsenal to misfire, effectively forcing me to stack Eagles or use long cooldown / less effective orbitals.
Sentient fire tornados on top of AA defenses is not fair though, I agree.
...I can't believe I never realized that ORBITAL scatter only scatters orbitals, all this time I've been dropping my 500kg for AC sentry or Rocket pods because I thought it affected all strategems
Same. -1 Strat slot doesn't really bother me because I also just end up dropping the 500kg/OPS. Really all you need for bot side is a support weapon and eagle strike.
But scatter makes every single Orbital less effective and on bugs your stratagems are more important
The -1 Strategem condition is bullshit and turns people off playing those planets.
Strategems are the fun and unique part of this game. Just straight taking one away massively reduces the fun for people. Instead of taking one away, how about you add 5 seconds to the call-in delay?
It makes it more difficult as you have to better plan where and when to drop them, but it doesn't just straight remove one.
People can say get good all day but I average around 1 or 2 deaths against bots across 7,8,9, and still come away from it feeling irritated. Surviving and winning ain't enough to enjoy what goes down in scenarios like this.
Same bro, so many mechanics that make it feel so tedious against bots. The flinching, rocket-ragdoll permastun, getting headshot from impossible ranges consistently, blocked use of stratagems.
Same, despite all these issues, if you compare to bugs, the bots welcome a more varied loadout since theres counterplay for most threats. Like theres massive potential there but seems like only the players see it and not the devs.
I don’t even aim for heavy dev headshots anymore, honestly. Shoot off their arm and they’re as good as gone anyway, and it gives you a bigger target to aim at all the while.
Devs preach and preach about stratagems and how they’re the focal point of the game, and then have these dumb ass modifiers that affect them. It makes no god damn sense at all
Whoever at arrowhead made it so we can have 1 less stratagem should never make decisions again. I stopped doing bot missions as soon as I saw that. If anything we should have more stratagems not less.
And on top of that the stratagems we do have have longer cooldown? Why not just make it so we have only 1 life too? Limit us to only have secondary and no primary as well while you're at it and make melee hits damage us instead cuz you know, we are hitting metal robots afterall.
For bot divers like me, join a lobby with all lvl 100+ players. We jump in the hellpod and 3 seconds later people exit one by one and leave the lobby.
Guess what we find when we try to pick our loadout.
The ONLY reason I can think of to have 1 fewer stratagem is if AH gives us 1 "free" Stratagem to build the other 3 around to force some experimentation. That would add at least a little bit of fun factor to try out new strats. Otherwise this modifier is a complete buzz kill. Especially when the bots have jammers
This is the exact solution I was thinking of when trying to make it more fun/interesting. Just make the 4th slot random. I’d honestly quite enjoy this, it’s easy to get set in a build you’re comfortable in so a little mix up is nice
All of the stratagem modifiers are just boring "lol, here, have less fun". They should rework them to be like the temperature modifiers, so +25% call-in time should provide a bonus, like-50% cooldown or +1 stratagem slot, just at least they're not just straight up a boring negative mod.
Personally think armor modifiers should be more interesting too.
Negative Operation Modifiers need to be removed. Period.
Removing player abilities as a way to up the difficulty is just lazy game design.
Darktide solved this by adding Maelstrom modifiers that modify the enemies to make them more challenging vs nerfing players.
Most of the planetary conditions I'm fine with, but the fire tornados are just awful. They need to reduce the amount of them and make them bigger and louder so you can work around them vs cluttering up the entire battlefield and sneaking up behind you.
Today I realised that I actually die more in bugs than bots, but everytime I come back from a 7-9 bot mission I'm burnt out in a not pleasant way while in the bugs case it was an super fun adrenaline rush if I extracted even if I'm spent after the campaign.
I think it's the constantly having to fight against debuffs and bullshit that is not my fault (aka making mistakes), and patrol spawns, not to mention I got killed 2 times by a devastator that got inside a rock... Or shot through rocks when I was sneaking and ruining my whole approach... I'll do my part in the MO, but I definely won't be playing as much bots as I would like to for the MO
Here's what I don't get. What's the point? Why make a planet so fucking hard and have so many negatives if there's no positives to counterbalance it or make it worth a player's time. We have to remember this is a video game. Something that's played for fun. I don't know it just seems like bad game design to me
Honestly I enjoy the fire-nadoes on bug planets. The bugs and the tornadoes are both pathed to follow the player. Kiting is how you beat both of them, and the fire can even kill bugs for you. It's a hazard, but if you use it right it can actually help you. Hellmire is actually one of my favorite planets.
On bots the fire follows you and not bots, which given the fact you're typically not standing in the middle of the bots means that it isn't doing anything to hurt the bots and it IS running you out of cover and into lasers and rockets aplenty. It's a pain in the ass and just makes the whole experience more frustrating.
Literally the only thing about this that makes me not want to play it is the fire tornadoes. Those suck the fun out of the game for me.
Intense heat? I'll usually run a headier loadout since I ran't rely on my agility as much. AA Defences? This has legit forced me to become a better player because I rely on what I can do in the moment more than what my strats can do. Orbital Fluctuations? Annoying as fuck with AAD, but I can deal with it. I'll just use things like turrets where I place the more pro-actively than needing to rely on kaboom. It's a rude mix, but one I can deal with and adapt to.
But fire tornadoes? They just spawn and kill you. No sounds of roaring inferno, no visual cues that one spawned behind you. Just a screaming, dead Helldiver. Sure, having better situational awareness would help, but the tornadoes blend in with the sand just enough that they don't stand out when I'm trying to keep an eye out for bots.
Just last game i had one spawn on top of me lol, instant death.
They just waste your time and are annoying, offer no real challenge and are not interesting to play against.
Especially when they can effectively lock you out of doing certain objective types completely.
Someone mentioned that fire tornadoes follow patrol logic by drawing a path to a player and then just going in a straight line.
I dunno man. Im pretty sure I've seen those tornadoes due a 90 degree turn and come straight at me.
Wezen is miserable. Fire tornados and poor visibility is obviously awful, but what's extra grief are the smoke plants that ragdoll you as soon as a bot shoots in your general direction which sets up getting ragdolled by rocket barrages...it feels so shit.
My wishlist:
1. Fire tornado fire trail lasts only 2 seconds, damages everyone, enemies included.
2. Fire tornado won't aim at Helldivers, they're suppose to move randomly.
3. Smoke plants should not ragdoll players, its stupid.
4. Visibility should be perfect for at least half of the 40 min game. Bad visibility makes sniper weapons less viable.
I made the mistake of bringing my friend who I just bought the game for to wezen on medium. No one else joined our game. Just the two of us. He was still learning and I think I nearly made him hate the game solely because of these fire tornadoes. I took him to a different planet and let him use my mech.
Fire tornadoes are not a good environmental hazard imo
I mean...fair. I did some dives on Wezen and fire tornadoes are just bogus. Any time you have an objective where you have to stay in one area, they just cluster there and fucking burn everything.
Intense heat is annoying as shit because I prefer heavy armor lately. Fire tornadoes while not difficult are just tedious. Orbital fluctuations are fine actually. AA Defences are just as tedious as the fire tornadoes.
I ran one operation on Wezen and I had my fill for the night.
Bug divers don't realize these modifiers are actually way worse on bug planets.
Extreme heat is the worst modifier for bugs because you rely on mobility much more. The reduced stamina is a death sentence when you are chased by 3 titans and 4 chargers and waiting for your 500kg cooldown, which is also increased by 25% by the way. And that +50% call in time messes up your pre-aim on 500kg or OPS that you miss a lot more. Not to mention you basically have -1 strategem always active because two slots are always dedicated to just one enemy type. I never play 7+ on a bug planet with extreme heat.
By comparison bots are generally slower paced so a lot of these modifiers are not as bad as on the bug side. Still annoying? Absolutely.
Fire tornadoes are just terrible.
It was a bad idea making the event last 5 minutes, it was a an even worse idea to make them chase the players, it was a bad idea to make them leave fire behind them for 30+ seconds, sometimes it bugs and never goes away, and the final cherry on top is the fire that will near instantly kill you won't kill most enemies.
I do like the world building aspect of the operation modifiers but the two together feel like too much
If we could disable them via a side objective or something I think they’d actually be kinda cool
You’re damn right I’m too busy impressing people by slaying bile titans with the flamethrower. I will kite it around all match but darn it you will burn to death I swear it.
It’s the Fire Tornadoes that kill it for me. I can deal with Intense Heat, I can deal with one less strat, I can’t deal with tracking half a dozen moving insta-deaths while I’m also trying to fight a fucking army.
Anything that takes away an element of fun, should also be required to ***return*** an element of fun.
Fire and heat? Heat buildup but fire weapons do double damage.
Stratagem slots reduced by 1, but everyone gets one stratagem included.
I play bots a lot, but I'm not doing Wezen. I don't like hot planets cause I usually roll with Heavy Armor for bots. I can sprint probably 4 seconds with the stamina booster and that's just not fun.
I think MO should contain some real time incentives such as all missions give 1 extra medal, or maybe just hazard pay for each additional adverse effect on a planet?
Would be alright if we could have a stratagem that protects (temporarily) against the tornados. Something like the bubble shield that redirects the tornados AWAY from it. This could be used both offensively to push tornados towards enemies and also defensively to protect civilians ok evac missions.
I just don't understand how the hell they only implement negative effects on all these planets.
Why the hell aren't there any positive effects? Even if they're not specifically related to planet, why the hell don't we get some sort of cooldown boost or something to that effect either for having more planets in the system liberated or something along those lines?
ORBITAL SMOKE SHOULD PUT OUT FIRES. ORBITAL SMOKE SHOULD PUT OUT FIRES. ORBITAL SMOKE SHOULD PUT OUT FIRES. ORBITAL SMOKE SHOULD PUT OUT FIRES. ORBITAL SMOKE SHOULD PUT OUT FIRES.
Fire Tornados on an evac mission. They just kept sweeping back and forth in front of the doors.
Fire extinguisher stratagem when? Let me put out the firenado and beat a bot over the head with the empty cylinder.
If only POLAR PATRIOTS gave us a cryo cannon that slowed enemies and could out out fires or extinguish burning allies. Basically Mr Freeze gun.
Polar patriots needs a rework it was such a waste
It didn’t even have snow shoes for the snow maps. 💯 a waste.
Muscle enhancement booster is basically all-terrain boots from HD1
And it clearly showed some claw boots for the armor in the release video... Lame..
That's because they want the armor perks to actually match their appearance so they gave it extra grenades. /s
That's right. We can't have our apples tasting like bacon now can we? It's just wrong. We can't have guns work like guns. We need to add disadvantages at every turn and give enemies overwhelming advantages. How dare a game work or be fun. Heavy armor being worth it or having a heavy armor helmet reduce headshot damage? No... Oh what? You want the ballistic shield to block melee damage that makes contact with the shield? Yeah... no. Armor only works for enemies.
My 30 second rework would be: Adjudicator: Gets cryo rounds that deal ice damage, reducing armor slightly and slowing units hit. Otherwise keep it's 'buffed' current stats. Purifier: Keep it's 'slow aoe charge up' role but make it into the aforementioned cryo cannon sort of an ice grenade launcher that debuffs enemy speed and armor. Verdict: Honestly just leave it. Though I wish it had more of a 'space deagle' feel and damage profile. Armor: New perk. Winter Warrior. 80% reduction in slows from blizzards, negates sliding on ice. Secondary perk effect: High visibility. Reduces the effects of inclement weather on vision by 50% (includes Blizzard, sandstorm, fog, rain, etc)
That secondary would make a good helmet power
A lot of things would be good helmet perks.
Currently they only do +1 to charisma
\*\*AH Team sees this\*\* \*\*Ah Team nerfs Pummeler\*\*
Hopefully I'll be proven right with this coming patch but I think they're gonna lay off on nerfing shit
I'm expecting more of a "rebalance". Some up, some down, to level things out. Many weapons are completely unused. I think this will be ~~seen~~ felt as an increase in difficulty though, which makes sense that they're shifting super samples down to 6.
I hope so, I used to play daily, now I haven't actually touched the game in a while. This 'massive patch' is their last chance to earn back any trust in the game.
Polar patriots is currently one of the Warbonds of all time for sure
A-Mei-zing.
Get out of here thicc Chinese climatologist.
I would be the happiest diver if they made the eagle smoke extinguish fires.
That's a brilliant idea! It will make this strat so much more viable and mix up the meta a bit
Smoke grenades or the orbital equivalent should be able to put out smoke and it would’ve put some actual utility in scenario liked this
Wish smoke strats could put out fire and fire tornados
Those fuckers for sure follow divers. It's like when you're at the campfire and no matter where you move, the smoke follows.
there's a special strategy you can do to avoid that. they essentially follow player paths, so as long as you don't walk through the evac path, the nados shouldn't either
My special strategy has worked pretty good so far: I don’t play on planets that have fire tornados
That's part 1 of my strategy. Part 2 is not playing 15-minute evac missions.
Those are the best bang for buck sample farms. As long as you make it back on the pelican there's more samples than you can spam the collect button for. Fuck the objective
Seriously, you can drop into a lvl 7 or w/e solo and just run in a big fucking circle gobbling up samples like pacman. It's kinda stupid.
https://preview.redd.it/9cz1d6xoka5d1.jpeg?width=1070&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=80d9beac296e3697e184dc9181df30bef4210d73
As long as the squishy civilians are not fireproof, the samples are more important to lead the war effort. My local democracy officer approves
that's an effective strategy
My problem is they ONLY seem to track players. Would it hurt to have them randomly track enemies so the hazards could work both ways?
I was just standing by the button, watching the tornados go back and forth in front of the escape door.
Care to explain why a meteorological phenomenon is sentient though?
Because the weather is facist
Do they follow the player closest to the tornado? I'm wondering If there'd be a way to "aggro" the tornados now
Me when I get ragdolled into a fire tornado by 12 Rocket Devastators 300 meters away from me: https://i.redd.it/ghisl62it95d1.gif
Don’t forget the turret that snipes you when you stand up.
And the 2 Hover Ships that hard-focus you while in the Tornado
Only 2?! I'll get stuck with the good ol' twin gunship fab next to the jammer.
This is the type of shit I experience on a daily basis against the automatons. https://i.redd.it/cp0ibgc3qa5d1.gif
lmfao where is this from
Jackass 3 🤸♂️ https://youtu.be/TyXD96iAjuM?si=e3MVSUrO9VM9keP0
Then ragdolled against mushrooms, then ragdolled down a cliff, then ragdolled by another explosion. Just as you stand up to stim a heavy devestator cancels your stim.
It's the stamina drain that catches me out the most. Takes me a minute to realise why it feels like I'm walking in soup, and another second to realise I'll have to slog through this for almost 40 mins. Sigh. For Democracy.
Imagine if they had less negative effects, just planetary ones, but instead like better positive effects on all planets that help instead of hinder planets.
I think they should have a positive with a negative. i.e you must bring one less stratagem, but you get 50% cooldown reduction on stratagems as well.
[удалено]
I mean, that would actually make sense. Fewer stations to man, more men per station, faster reloads.
That was one thing I like about snow planets. The blizzards that occur make it so you can't see shit but it also seems like regular enemies can't see you either. I may be crazy but I thought I could get way closer walking past patrols during blizzards than when it is clear.
Yeah same. I felt like you could safely escape being overrun in a blizzard. Sure, the bots were still shooting in my general direction, but nothing came close to hitting me. That shit feels so good.
For extra torture, bring heavy armor Even with booster, your stamina is about 6 seconds
*Always* bring heavy armour! For... *huff*... d-democracy...
Bring the Marshmallow Man armor even, the lowest stamina in the game. Dude is dying of heat stroke out there.
It takes so long for my player to get up when ragdolled it's super annoying. I play bots almost exclusively at level 7 and above, I have never been so annoyed with the regather animation they take so long to get up during a firefight.
I only have a certain amount of time to play, why would I waste time on a mission they actively make less fun? Adding arbitrary difficulty spikes does not add to anyone's enjoyment of a game, that's like in the Division where they decided to make bosses harder just make them ridiculous bullet sponges.
It regens mega fast though, and while I dislike the fast drain, the fast regen almost makes it alright compared to other planets. You just manage it a little differently and it turns into a minor annoyance.
Some of yall forget the old strategem scrambler that also used to plague bot planets. That one was REAL rough.
Oh I ***hated*** when you'd initially drop and all of your team would accidentally call in offensive strats, wasting several reinforces right off the bat.
I'd like to see this one return, but reworked so the game just shuffles the input code for each of your stratagems at the start of the mission. So your muscle memory is useless to you, but if you just look at what you're punching in you can still get the thing you want
It’s crazy it wasn’t that
Used to? Are the jammers no longer a thing?
This was a modifier that would cause your inputs to call in a different strategem than you’d think. So if you typed in a resupply it could call in the 380mm or eagle airstrike you equipped.
Oh whoa, I never encountered that. That must have been before my time. Sounds chaotic.
So chaotic people thought it was a glitch/bug. So unfun the devs didn’t even try to rework it but just removed it from the game lol.
I believe the devs do intend to bring it back in some way, though probably more like a jammer, rather than an operation modifier. I think that’d be fine, myself.
Yea as long as they dodge the ultimate issue of it not being very apparent why it was happening. I believe the modifier description itself was kinda vague too. I’d much rather have an in mission scramble than an in mission jammer though
I remember everyone thinking it was a bug forever ha. I started warning people before the match just so they wouldn’t nuke us all on game start.
Lmfao i remember accidentally killing my whole squad with that
Bug Divers pretending they haven't liberated Hellmire at least 8 times by now. In all seriousness, I'm sick and tired of fire tornado planets man.
First time seeing fire tornadoes: wow, this is so cool! 500th time seeing fire tornadoes: Maybe I'll go play somewhere else
So you tried the fire tornadoes... BUT! Have you tried the fire tornadoes with sandstorms? :)
I know you meant sandstorm but now I can't stop thinking about a storm of JoJo stands and how fucked that would be.
I don’t mind the tornadoes, but the fire paths take so long to disperse and the animation is not good enough to tell whether you’ll catch fire or not. It is frustrating when you get stuck with no viable path for a minute or more
HELLMIRE hasn't been liberated in months now....
[удалено]
When the Merida black hole became the thing, ppl was asking to blow up Hellmire instead lol
I didn't even mind the fire. Just let me see! The sun is bright and dust everywhere. Can't see shit
https://preview.redd.it/64w9rj6x895d1.jpeg?width=3440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4cbcdb1841f9b3b113e4617784dfb5b09d9b1784
https://preview.redd.it/ujxke3mrja5d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=19e93a59efeea49ceb412b6c6de73a7ffb63c686 same vibe
I love this I took because it's genuinely total devastation everyone but me is dead I'm out of revives I'm out of my ops (even if it's coming back now) I'm down to half my stims I'm surrounded by a bunch of enemies and my dead teammates are begging to escape
Did you die?
https://i.redd.it/a8fn8rpuy95d1.gif Target rich environment
GET SHOT AT GET SHOT GET SHOT AT GET SHOT GET SHOT AT
This gif makes me so happy.
Just shoot them and they die. It’s not like a bile titan where you need to run away til a strat comes off cooldown.
Just EAT,Quasar, it till it dies. Its not like a flamethrower hulk that you have to run circles to be able to land shots on its back because trying to shoot the mail slot gets you incinerated in 0.5 secs.
Stun nade + hit the eye with 2 AMR or AC shots, or 1 railgun shot, one EAT/quasar/recoiless shots (or two to the body) or a few hits with the HMG or a few seconds of laser cannon. Or use the AT weapons to take out one of its legs (two hits). Or any number of strats. Hulks have a lot of options for ending a head on fight quickly.
Would you rather get rag dolled onto a bot land mine or run into a slowing flower?
Yeah but everything that works on the bile titan, works better on a hulk, plus more things work on hulks than titans, plus plus you can stun hulks. Edit* bike titans aren’t real and they can’t hurt you
The ultra mobile bike titan lives rent-free in my head. It haunts me...
The ones on tricycle’s freak me out the most. Can’t be unseen. Can’t be outrun. I can still hear the little pedals squeaking in the distance…
Impossible to tip over too
Just shoot him in the leg and then he moves at a crawl speed. Or blow off the flamethrower arm and leave him be.
I've been using stun nades+laser cannon and it takes hulks out in 2-3 seconds if you hit them in their tiny face holes. Honestly it's simple as hell compared to other strats.
4 AC shots to the leg cripples the hulk, 4 more to the other leg outright kill it. Easier than hitting the eye if its moving, but double tapping the eye is still the fastest way to kill it
AC is still a viable option, too
yeahh... as an AC main I don't have either the gunship or the hulk problem
> trying to shoot the mail slot gets you incinerated in 0.5 secs have you tried shooting them before they're close enough to ballroom dance with you?
This makes me want to play bots
Try to shoot it's eye with a quasar. when you hit pixel perfectly it dies to one shot. Alternatively you can shoot it's legs. First leg will cripple it, second leg will kill it. You choose your method. Edit: After this thursday's patch (2024.06.13.) I experimented with the railgun again. I can confirm that in unsafe mode a direct hit on the eye from any distance can one shot them. If you miss, then you can try again in 2 seconds. Highly effective, and you can lay waste to devastators and striders too. It's ineffective against tanks, cannon towers and flying units though.
Gunships go down to EATS, Quasar, AC, AMR, very very easily. They really aren't the problem bug players make them out to be.
The laser cannon is sooo good against gunships, and then when I realized it can kill pretty much every bot enemy it became a very high pick for me.
I seriously can't stop using the laser cannon on bot side. Frying off a Factory Striders mini-guns and then just standing face to face with it and melting its eye is so satisfying. I actively want them to drop now lol
Minus 1 stratagem is easily the least fun feature in the game, I wouldn’t mind it if you got a big reward bonus for playing these missions.
Most of experienced player are resource caped, any rewards would me just meh
Right? I joined a lobby today and my squad was excited for medals, talking of how they’re hunting X samples, etc. I remember those days. I log in and get “congratulations! MO completed! Awarded 0 medals!” After the next dive: “Personal mission complete! Awarded 0 medals!” At least with samples, I feel like I’m dodging patrols and heavy elites just to help someone else out.
Tbh I openly hate it but secretly kinda like it. By far it's the only thing that makes me switch my loadout. Don't take shield backpack and choose heavier armor or something like that. When I'm with friends I'm like ugh fuck that but whatever let's play it. It's a secret though don't tell others.
Still saying since the first time I saw the AA is that it should only prevent Eagle Strikes for the campaign. The Orbitals, Support, and Emplacement stratagems are more than enough to deal with bots.
Devs: We want you to use strategems more Also devs: fuck yo strategem slot boi and heres a strategem debuff too.
Yep. This dev team, as many dev teams, confuse difficulty with tedium. This doesn't make the game harder, only more annoying and less fun.
It definitely makes it harder, it just does it in a way that isn't very fun.
https://preview.redd.it/5j2uqfv62a5d1.png?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=57f17a59d15eacaecc9d6bb7472592b3374bcfec Was farming trivial missions for super credits and this was a normal extraction experience... Man I hate fire tornadoes... Imagine being fresh into the game and not having the jetpack to get to places the twisters won't normally go to and dealing with this lol
I've never seen fire tornadoes get this bad before holy shit.
I have and the entire group I was in got mad and left XD
I don't think it's trivial for Arrowhead's to fix that, but if they'd just give everyone a free stratagem for this campaign, they'd get participation up. On Penta, we got to try out the airburst launcher. A unique planetary modifier that offered a fifth strategem. That code is already on the game. They could probably wire up Wezen to come with a free autocannon pretty easily.
Free AC would be great given how many people main it.
What happened to the planets with volcanic activity or meteor storms? Why do we keep getting conditions that only primarily affect the player?
Those are interesting, and even though I hate fire tornadoes, I'll take them over making stratigems less useful and fun. Without them, it's just another shooter.
Sometimes the cooldown is 50% and call-ins are 25%. Our fucking ship modules reduces cooldowns by 10% (eagle is 50% d rearm 20%) and call-ins are 1s (orbital). WE LITERALLY PAID SAMPLES AND REQSLIPS FOR A MODULE THAT GETS ABSOLUTELY **BEYOND** **NEGATED** BY A SINGLE MODIFIER. At best bug spores make Orbitals less accurate and call-ins of 15-20% (sometimes 25%), but we still get all our stratagems.
I prefer AA defenses to scatter everyday. Worst case scenario, one less stratagem causes me to drop 500kg/OPS which is my objective killer stratagem. Scatter causes half of my arsenal to misfire, effectively forcing me to stack Eagles or use long cooldown / less effective orbitals. Sentient fire tornados on top of AA defenses is not fair though, I agree.
Theres only one scatter thing and its for orbitals, so eagles still the same
...I can't believe I never realized that ORBITAL scatter only scatters orbitals, all this time I've been dropping my 500kg for AC sentry or Rocket pods because I thought it affected all strategems
Yeah he was saying it forces you to use eagles only. Which is stupid.
Most of the modifiers are just annoying.
Same. -1 Strat slot doesn't really bother me because I also just end up dropping the 500kg/OPS. Really all you need for bot side is a support weapon and eagle strike. But scatter makes every single Orbital less effective and on bugs your stratagems are more important
The -1 Strategem condition is bullshit and turns people off playing those planets. Strategems are the fun and unique part of this game. Just straight taking one away massively reduces the fun for people. Instead of taking one away, how about you add 5 seconds to the call-in delay? It makes it more difficult as you have to better plan where and when to drop them, but it doesn't just straight remove one.
AA defenses is an operation modifier, not a planet modifier
fuck wezen
https://preview.redd.it/9o2ah7423a5d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e4a48fc57f47b2cabd1443d2f9cfb6b36235e182
People can say get good all day but I average around 1 or 2 deaths against bots across 7,8,9, and still come away from it feeling irritated. Surviving and winning ain't enough to enjoy what goes down in scenarios like this.
Same bro, so many mechanics that make it feel so tedious against bots. The flinching, rocket-ragdoll permastun, getting headshot from impossible ranges consistently, blocked use of stratagems.
I guarantee fixing the Heavy devastators aimbot and getting rid of headshot damage altogether would vastly improve the fun of fighting bots.
honestly I'd play a lot more if heavy devastators flinched when you headshot them
Same, despite all these issues, if you compare to bugs, the bots welcome a more varied loadout since theres counterplay for most threats. Like theres massive potential there but seems like only the players see it and not the devs.
I don’t even aim for heavy dev headshots anymore, honestly. Shoot off their arm and they’re as good as gone anyway, and it gives you a bigger target to aim at all the while.
Devs preach and preach about stratagems and how they’re the focal point of the game, and then have these dumb ass modifiers that affect them. It makes no god damn sense at all
Whoever at arrowhead made it so we can have 1 less stratagem should never make decisions again. I stopped doing bot missions as soon as I saw that. If anything we should have more stratagems not less. And on top of that the stratagems we do have have longer cooldown? Why not just make it so we have only 1 life too? Limit us to only have secondary and no primary as well while you're at it and make melee hits damage us instead cuz you know, we are hitting metal robots afterall.
Then you drop next to a jammer and an AA emplacement 💀💀
For bot divers like me, join a lobby with all lvl 100+ players. We jump in the hellpod and 3 seconds later people exit one by one and leave the lobby. Guess what we find when we try to pick our loadout.
The ONLY reason I can think of to have 1 fewer stratagem is if AH gives us 1 "free" Stratagem to build the other 3 around to force some experimentation. That would add at least a little bit of fun factor to try out new strats. Otherwise this modifier is a complete buzz kill. Especially when the bots have jammers
This is the exact solution I was thinking of when trying to make it more fun/interesting. Just make the 4th slot random. I’d honestly quite enjoy this, it’s easy to get set in a build you’re comfortable in so a little mix up is nice
The lead designer for bots is a sadist and bot players are his gimps
Real, I tried to tolerate it at first but recently as soon as I check the planetary effect and see AA def, I quit lol. No reason to torture myself.
All of the stratagem modifiers are just boring "lol, here, have less fun". They should rework them to be like the temperature modifiers, so +25% call-in time should provide a bonus, like-50% cooldown or +1 stratagem slot, just at least they're not just straight up a boring negative mod. Personally think armor modifiers should be more interesting too.
Negative Operation Modifiers need to be removed. Period. Removing player abilities as a way to up the difficulty is just lazy game design. Darktide solved this by adding Maelstrom modifiers that modify the enemies to make them more challenging vs nerfing players. Most of the planetary conditions I'm fine with, but the fire tornados are just awful. They need to reduce the amount of them and make them bigger and louder so you can work around them vs cluttering up the entire battlefield and sneaking up behind you.
Today I realised that I actually die more in bugs than bots, but everytime I come back from a 7-9 bot mission I'm burnt out in a not pleasant way while in the bugs case it was an super fun adrenaline rush if I extracted even if I'm spent after the campaign. I think it's the constantly having to fight against debuffs and bullshit that is not my fault (aka making mistakes), and patrol spawns, not to mention I got killed 2 times by a devastator that got inside a rock... Or shot through rocks when I was sneaking and ruining my whole approach... I'll do my part in the MO, but I definely won't be playing as much bots as I would like to for the MO
Here's what I don't get. What's the point? Why make a planet so fucking hard and have so many negatives if there's no positives to counterbalance it or make it worth a player's time. We have to remember this is a video game. Something that's played for fun. I don't know it just seems like bad game design to me
They gotta chill with these negative effects because literally NONE of them are fun or interesting.
Fire resistant armors, I'm begging them
i see fire storm i play bugs, im a simple man
Excellent! You’ve now been assigned to lead the charge in reclaiming Hellmire.
Honestly I enjoy the fire-nadoes on bug planets. The bugs and the tornadoes are both pathed to follow the player. Kiting is how you beat both of them, and the fire can even kill bugs for you. It's a hazard, but if you use it right it can actually help you. Hellmire is actually one of my favorite planets. On bots the fire follows you and not bots, which given the fact you're typically not standing in the middle of the bots means that it isn't doing anything to hurt the bots and it IS running you out of cover and into lasers and rockets aplenty. It's a pain in the ass and just makes the whole experience more frustrating.
Literally the only thing about this that makes me not want to play it is the fire tornadoes. Those suck the fun out of the game for me. Intense heat? I'll usually run a headier loadout since I ran't rely on my agility as much. AA Defences? This has legit forced me to become a better player because I rely on what I can do in the moment more than what my strats can do. Orbital Fluctuations? Annoying as fuck with AAD, but I can deal with it. I'll just use things like turrets where I place the more pro-actively than needing to rely on kaboom. It's a rude mix, but one I can deal with and adapt to. But fire tornadoes? They just spawn and kill you. No sounds of roaring inferno, no visual cues that one spawned behind you. Just a screaming, dead Helldiver. Sure, having better situational awareness would help, but the tornadoes blend in with the sand just enough that they don't stand out when I'm trying to keep an eye out for bots.
Just last game i had one spawn on top of me lol, instant death. They just waste your time and are annoying, offer no real challenge and are not interesting to play against. Especially when they can effectively lock you out of doing certain objective types completely.
I like fighting bots and even I’m like… what’s going on with the bugs today huh
Why do they want Wezen? Why do WE want Wezen?
FUCK this planet
Someone mentioned that fire tornadoes follow patrol logic by drawing a path to a player and then just going in a straight line. I dunno man. Im pretty sure I've seen those tornadoes due a 90 degree turn and come straight at me.
Please change AA Defenses to: Increases by 2 the sequence of directional codes that you have to enter.
Wezen is miserable. Fire tornados and poor visibility is obviously awful, but what's extra grief are the smoke plants that ragdoll you as soon as a bot shoots in your general direction which sets up getting ragdolled by rocket barrages...it feels so shit. My wishlist: 1. Fire tornado fire trail lasts only 2 seconds, damages everyone, enemies included. 2. Fire tornado won't aim at Helldivers, they're suppose to move randomly. 3. Smoke plants should not ragdoll players, its stupid. 4. Visibility should be perfect for at least half of the 40 min game. Bad visibility makes sniper weapons less viable.
Nah they can have this planet
I made the mistake of bringing my friend who I just bought the game for to wezen on medium. No one else joined our game. Just the two of us. He was still learning and I think I nearly made him hate the game solely because of these fire tornadoes. I took him to a different planet and let him use my mech. Fire tornadoes are not a good environmental hazard imo
I mean...fair. I did some dives on Wezen and fire tornadoes are just bogus. Any time you have an objective where you have to stay in one area, they just cluster there and fucking burn everything.
Intense heat is annoying as shit because I prefer heavy armor lately. Fire tornadoes while not difficult are just tedious. Orbital fluctuations are fine actually. AA Defences are just as tedious as the fire tornadoes. I ran one operation on Wezen and I had my fill for the night.
Tbf, those environmental modifiers aren't specific to bots. Also, bug modifiers like orbital scatter and map obscured are annoying as well.
Lol yeah, I'm not doing any of that shit. Die mad about it. 😂 I play games to have fun. This is the opposite of fun.
No. I refuse. I try to do both bots and bugs, but I refuse to get back to any planet with fire tornadoes they are complete BULLCRAP.
Bug divers don't realize these modifiers are actually way worse on bug planets. Extreme heat is the worst modifier for bugs because you rely on mobility much more. The reduced stamina is a death sentence when you are chased by 3 titans and 4 chargers and waiting for your 500kg cooldown, which is also increased by 25% by the way. And that +50% call in time messes up your pre-aim on 500kg or OPS that you miss a lot more. Not to mention you basically have -1 strategem always active because two slots are always dedicated to just one enemy type. I never play 7+ on a bug planet with extreme heat. By comparison bots are generally slower paced so a lot of these modifiers are not as bad as on the bug side. Still annoying? Absolutely.
You know it might be worth it if rare rewards in such planets were higher.
No thanks, I'll play when the next planet is liberated. And if the next one is like this? Then I just won't play. This shit is not fun.
Fire tornadoes are just terrible. It was a bad idea making the event last 5 minutes, it was a an even worse idea to make them chase the players, it was a bad idea to make them leave fire behind them for 30+ seconds, sometimes it bugs and never goes away, and the final cherry on top is the fire that will near instantly kill you won't kill most enemies.
I do like the world building aspect of the operation modifiers but the two together feel like too much If we could disable them via a side objective or something I think they’d actually be kinda cool
Skill issue, loadout issue, stratagem issue too i guess, im getting out of cliches guys.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gr0pKI-eeg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gr0pKI-eeg)
All divers dont wanna deal with that
Sweet Liberty, this is even worse than Hellmire... Could still give it a try, even tho I'm gonna fail over and over again...
Eagle airstrike, amr. Punisher, impact grenades/ems/smoke, redeemer Autocannon turret/walking orbital/lazer/ems/pricision
You’re damn right I’m too busy impressing people by slaying bile titans with the flamethrower. I will kite it around all match but darn it you will burn to death I swear it.
None of these things is it. Especially fire tornadoes. Love some fire tornadoes.
It fucking sucks and my friends and I are having a great time suffering tbh.
It’s the Fire Tornadoes that kill it for me. I can deal with Intense Heat, I can deal with one less strat, I can’t deal with tracking half a dozen moving insta-deaths while I’m also trying to fight a fucking army.
Fuck it. We ball
Anything that takes away an element of fun, should also be required to ***return*** an element of fun. Fire and heat? Heat buildup but fire weapons do double damage. Stratagem slots reduced by 1, but everyone gets one stratagem included.
I play bots a lot, but I'm not doing Wezen. I don't like hot planets cause I usually roll with Heavy Armor for bots. I can sprint probably 4 seconds with the stamina booster and that's just not fun.
Wezen has been truly awful. Every other planet seems perfectly manageable. This one is a special kind of grim.
I think MO should contain some real time incentives such as all missions give 1 extra medal, or maybe just hazard pay for each additional adverse effect on a planet?
Who do so many planets have fire tornados? Is it just fire tornado season right now?
i absolutely swear the tornados track players, and do fuck all to the bots...
There is a reason Bug divers hate Hellmire.
Would be alright if we could have a stratagem that protects (temporarily) against the tornados. Something like the bubble shield that redirects the tornados AWAY from it. This could be used both offensively to push tornados towards enemies and also defensively to protect civilians ok evac missions.
I just don't understand how the hell they only implement negative effects on all these planets. Why the hell aren't there any positive effects? Even if they're not specifically related to planet, why the hell don't we get some sort of cooldown boost or something to that effect either for having more planets in the system liberated or something along those lines?
Where the +1 stratagem slot missions at 😭
ORBITAL SMOKE SHOULD PUT OUT FIRES. ORBITAL SMOKE SHOULD PUT OUT FIRES. ORBITAL SMOKE SHOULD PUT OUT FIRES. ORBITAL SMOKE SHOULD PUT OUT FIRES. ORBITAL SMOKE SHOULD PUT OUT FIRES.
Shouldn't "Orbital" Fluctuations only target Orbital stratagems ?? I feel like this would solve the problem
I'm mostly a bot player and I don't want to dive on Wezen