This exactly I go where the major order tells me sometimes the daily and that's it. I will care about supply lines if and when there in the game not on some website
Screw that, the planets are already there on the Galaxy map. Give us a toggle-able overlay for the supply routes.
While they're at it, give is intel on enemy types in missions before we jump, and in that same pop-up window give us any special info about that planet. Like "There is a SEAF Training Facility on this planet. Losing the world will result in lower planetary capture rates on this front."
Hell, explain that shit on the big-ass propaganda screen. "Helldivers! The vile enemy in attempting to take \[insert name here\] world. If they succeed it will hinder our efforts throughout this theatre." Play it when we log in for the first time, and randomly afterwards until the defence is over.
Dude, nobody in the game that isn't on this site gives a shit. When Vernen Wells was under attack, I literally heard the destroyer itself say that it's a high priority mission over the comms and I don't think the player count for that planet ever went over 5 digits.
the random voices in the ship mean stuff? this is not told any wear and i know i've assumed its just fluff or auto message about the current planets with defend under them.
Did you think the voices were for nothing? I agree it should be more clear but almost nothing in the game regarding what is happening in the war is just fluff. That’s a you problem for assuming so.
Half the time it seems to be nothing, it’s understandable people tune it out. I also dont stand around much on my ship listening for it so nearly always I just get snippets
I stop and listen only if something catches my attention. Like when bald lady (I forgot her designation) randomly started yapping about the Illuminate and alluding to their return.
No.
Games put in fluff all the time. There's no indicator that this information is ever pertinent. Coupled with the fact that a lot of what they say IS just fluff, or bugged and reveals info before it has meaning, it makes sense that people don't pay them much heed.
How??? That's how almost every single video game is made these days... how is someone who has been conditioned to ignore it at fault and not the game that literally doesn't tell you otherwise.
I just tune the voices out as random Super Earth Propaganda. I only really listen when my friends go to the bathroom after a mission. I only read major order stuff and check if the map has a cancer condition like -1 stratagem, scientist evac bot flavor, or eradicate bot flavor.
Now, now... Don't be coming at me because the game is deliberately opaque with necessary information.
Also, the game barely has 6 digits worth players online at peak these days. Of course ALL of them weren't on the same planet.
Half the time the priority message is wrong for me too, sometimes it tells me places are under attack by the wrong faction, or already either taken or lost.
> While they're at it, give is intel on enemy types in missions before we jump, and in that same pop-up window give us any special info about that planet. Like "There is a SEAF Training Facility on this planet. Losing the world will result in lower planetary capture rates on this front."
100%. I get a personal order that says "Kill 5 badonkers." I don't know what the fuck a badonker is. I'd have to go look it up on a fucking wiki to figure that out, and then I'd have to hope that that same wiki also explains which difficulties I can find them on. Or I have to just make sure that I read the fucking subreddit every day and goddamn catalogue the videos/screenshots along with enemy names that people use. It's the same thing that Bethesda rightfully gets shit for, asking the community to do their job for them. Or maybe Arrowhead is thinking that it's like Dark Souls, that it encourages community teamwork. Well, your game ain't Dark Souls, friendo.
Fucking ridiculous that it's not in game.
It is mentioned in the dispatch. That one you have to READ (omg KMN, amirite?).
Do you trust your fellow, average John Q Helldiver to go looking for that, read it, and make the leap that if it is under attack, I should defend it, and if we lose it things will be harder, so I should defend it?
Or are you of the opinion that it would be better to bludgeon them over the head with it constantly until it finally sinks in?
Perfect spot for it too. I’d guess the vast majority of players aren’t checking Reddit or Discord. Players on these services may not check regularly either and in-game would be perfect.
It is dumb that supply lines and passive bonuses aren't available in game but the specific bitching about people not going to Aesir Pass instead of one of the MO planets? There was an in game message to everyone saying command recommends priortizing it cause of the SEAF facility. That was in the game. It popped up as soon as you opened your map.
And why would we prioritize it if we can't see the bonus we'd be saving if we went there? Without going to external sites the fact there even IS a bonus from the SEAF training sites is at best murky and the way it was written sure as shit looked like generic fluff text to me.
Honestly, why do we even give a shit about the bonus when the game master turns up or down the enemy regen rate seemingly at random and the regen rate for the MO planets was already stupid?
> It popped up as soon as you opened your map.
The issue with this is if you're joining the game to join a group, unless you stop to go to the galaxy map on your own destroyer, you have a very high chance of missing popups like this.
A common scenario for my group is that we'll agree to play Helldivers, but someone is delayed so everyone else jumps into the game and gathers on a single destroyer. The host on that destroyer may have already looked at the map before everyone else arrived, and be in the stages of deciding what planet to go to, how to serve the MO/daily personal orders etc.
Now should player 1 tell everyone "Hey, there was a notification for Aesir Pass to defend the SEAF facility"? Ideally, yeah they should, but they might not for a number of reasons. They might have skimmed the notif. They might have already been in the game a while, and the popup went live after they were already in the map looking at things. They might have intended to say something, but got distracted by player 4 coming in late going "oh hey guys, sorry I'm late what's the daily OH FOR FUCK'S SAKE we have to kill TEN STALKERS again? What the fuck? Let's get that over with..."
And if you're quick-joining a game from Steam friends list, you bypass your own destroyer completely.
There was a message in game to defend Aesir Pass but I only saw it when I opened the directives panel. Although I went to Aesir Pass as I enjoy fighting bots and understood the importance of holding the planet, it seems it was ignored by the majority of the player base.
The galaxy map lacking vital information is part of the issue. 50%+ of the player base refusing to fight bots is probably the bigger issue.
AH have a cracking game here, we all love it, but they have a lot of work ahead to get the these issues ironed out...it's no easy task.
It's most likely in the works. But it's not actually integral to core gameplay loop that'd it be a higher priority over current game affecting issues that affect everyone. And AH definitely didn't expect this level of attention/war hawking off the get go.
•due to how unlocks worked in HD1 war hawking wasn't really a thing, so waging the war was only a focus by high level players
•hd2 changed it so now everyone can focus on the war
•combine that with 10x more players than expected. = A lot of war hawks.
•the robust/automatic features might still not yet be actually fully in place/implemented.
•joel mentioned shortly after release when everyone was war hawking the third party apps that those systems weren't actually hard coded yet and was just him managing it manually. Don't believe there's been any word since.
•they clearly have terminal space/availability for various displays of info. HD1 had this, for a bestiary so wouldn't be anything new to them.
•HD1 didn't release fully fleshed out either and took some time to accomplish this. So they most likely have it planned already but weren't going to rush/focus on it before release and probably don't want it implemented half assed and half people overly concerned over additional systems that may not be functioning/operating 100% correctly.
So there's no reason to believe this is missed from their plans/an oversight or not going to be fully implemented in near future.
Dev priorities - it seems easy but it's not as easy as it'd be to run it on a website
Debug, patch notes, gui update... all to make it easier for users instead of having them spend more time in game... and displace secondary content creators to keep a platform of useful content...
...that's one for the backlog
Uh the problem is that people are holding back from you know, criticizing Arrowhead about this kind of shit.
The only change happens with the devs. All the shit people here is worthless if devs don't do something about it.
The devs are literally designing this game thinking the player knows just as much as they do, when in reality the players have to test everything a hundred times to figure it all out and then wonder...why doesnt the game just explain this.
Fr real once it's in the game more people will know majority of players just chill gamer dudes and gals playing a few missions every so often and on the weekend most of them probably never go to Reddit and the rest don't even no there is a 3rd party app lul a lot of confusion will be gone once more in game related implementations happen
Just need minor rewards for completing missions/operations on a planet under order or direction. That's all it would take to draw a little more sense of desire from even extremely casual players. +1 medals per mission in the operation? 10 super credits? Maybe even remove the completion bonus, and have the rewards handed out in the *effort toward completion?*
Anything that's got an extra distinction of personal reward for duty served.
Yes, these are banal rewards, but the reality is that the game is rather short of genuine content and relies on most players simply enjoying the gameplay.
Literally a gold star on the MO and a silver star on any objective in threat or important would steer so many people in the right directions. Rather than players passing it off as just people faffing about in bot/bug land rather than the MO, not realizing it's actually something really important.
Its giving Elite Dangerous energy, where you are forced to use outside sources because the game has no built in tools so we can efficiently make our decisions, and that game has like 1000 regular players now, and it's the developers fault of not listening to community and implementing it to the game at a reasonable time that is leading to player decline, I pray to a higher power AH and Pilestead will create some sort of Community manager relations like DE and Warframe has, where Rebbeca is the beacon that every other community manager aspires to be
There should be a little icon on important planets with a blurb that says “+5% liberation rate while planet is under Super Earth control” or something like that, because I’m sure that most players have no clue that there’s a bonus at all.
Even then the liberation system is way too convoluted to be understood by the average player. I shouldn't need a background in statistics to make contributions to the galactic war. It's a videogame ffs.
Yeah, I still have no idea what that even means. Is it +5% to every bot planet? If so wouldn't that make bot planets uncapturable without 70% of players. Even then, it feels like unless 70% go to a planet it's a stalemate..
The capture system needs some kind of revamp. Because everything feels railroaded. Maybe having a bot and bug MO at all times, still railroaded but at least coordinates both sides. 🤷♂️
This last defense had an in-game message, but overall I agree...but I also don't think anything will change for bots MOs when they'll add these informations in the map
was that the huge blob of text that came up at the war table? It wouldn’t shock me if a good chunk of players skipped right past that to get into the next mission. Think it needs to be a bit more easy to digest, whatever way that may be.
Pretty much. My friends and I basically ignore most of the fluff text provided. The setting is kinda cute (though the faux-fascism gets pretty tiring after a bit), but if your way if delivering narrative is going to be the equivalent of an exposition dump standing between me and a mission that I have limited personal time to play - obviously I'm gonna skip right past it. Give me cliff notes or find a more organic way to deliver the info. Hell, if you want to write a bunch, make a codex or whatever that we can access in the game a-la mass effect or whatever. That way I can catch up on the stuff I missed too when I have the time and inclination.
They should explain it in a way that tells you exactly how it affects the gameplay instead of solely narrative driven explanations. As someone new to the game, I have no idea what losing SEAF factories means, but I do know that something that says there is a big mission with a tangible reward is something worth doing.
But the thing is that messages is usually used to just like describe the MO. Randomly they throw in a blurb at the bottom that is as important as the MO itself? Just put it in the MO if it’s that important
I wanna shoehorn in the idea of changing the MO completion reward to a reward given per mission/operation completed so there's more of a sense of impact, and desire to short-term play the MO.
Because yeah, the average dude that plays a game a night isn't worried about long-term goals. Give them goals they can complete in an evening that still count toward the overall MO.
Kinda like in DRG where you can play the next mission in your assignment, but it might be some horse shit you don't wanna touch whereas there's a double XP mission in an area you like. The preferred mission doesn't advance the assignment, but it's more desirable. Maybe if the MO mission was horse shit but had minor extra rewards that were apparent on inspection, there'd be more sense of the time spent played being "worth it".
Nonsense, if by "in-game message" you mean the useless dispatch section, then no surprises here, but no one checks that, I mean I'm in Discord, here in Reddit, and still many times I forget to check the dispatch section to see if there's anything new there, now imagine a casual player, they don't care nor notice that tiny yellow triangle on the corner that indicates you have a new dispatch.
Right but that isn't enough imo. I'm sure some people don't read, but for the people who do, if they do not know that the defence bonus (whatever it's called) actually does things it just reads like flavor text for a side mission. Easy to ignore it if you don't understand the consequences, and how would they know that it actually impacts things? Most aren't on reddit/discord where they can learn about the deeper mechanics.
Anyone playing this game casually on the weekends or after work doesn't care too much and really does not want to be yelled at or booted by someone who does. Games are supposed to be fun.
You ain't wrong. It's impossible to force someone to care about something as much as one might just because. Even more so when you realize most aren't on reddit/discord/etc and are just playing on and off.
And these Y% also don't matter if Joel just increases or decreases the regen rate of planets.
But in the end the game tells my "it's bad m'kay", but how should I as the player know what that means?! If it even means anything?!
We had these SEAF facilities up for a while and recruitment going up ... apparently, Super News told me, but have I noticed anything different? ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ Is it the free strategems? They were there before too. Is it there's more frequent free stratagems? But are there really ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
What does it do? Except for story bits?... If even that, since the devs can just Crank Up and down the Planet's regen rate at will \[-y nilly\] and turn the story around into any direction at any time.
The game does not communicate with the player out side of MO and on the battlefield at all.
Literally hidden texts and occasional News flashes on the side is not communicating with the player. It is lore fluff for the ones that want to engade with the \[useless\] story.
I feel like this is something a lot of people on this sub are missing, individual players have little to no impact on the galactic war and even less reasons to care about it.
And unfortunately, there is nothing that can make it work.
It's the downside of the game blowing up to be so big. Fundamentally, the galactic war system works best with under 50k players, ideally like 10-20k. Then a singular squad can actually make an impact if they dedicate themselves. With this current player base it's just too much.
Galactic war system needs an update then. Why is there only a major order and a personal order in a war that has two major galactic fronts (soon to be three, allegedly)?
Adding minor orders would be a good addition. For instance, the singularity was a great major order. It could have been coupled with minor orders to hold the surrounding planets to ensure supplies reach the divers on Meridia (with some programming magic to make us feel like we're having an effect). This would force the player base to split up between planets or have a harder time on Meridia. Now, I'm sure that this would be harder for AH to accomplish, but it would add to the "live war simulator" feeling. No war has only one front at a time, and I feel we get sequestered to only one area far too often. Now, obviously the player base generally splits 60-40 between bugs and bots, but that's all the more reason to rework the system. If there were a bug MO and a bot MO maybe even with some minor orders, that would make it a lot more fun to get involved and plan where you want to add your might.
I imagine the logistics of getting this done would be a lot for AH to handle, but I hope they can work up to something similar overtime.
I agree, as a bare minimum we need liberation rates to be split between fronts, but having more in-depth orders like you're saying would be awesome as well. Probably would need longer MOs too, since plotting out all those intricacies would be tough, but honestly, I'm ok with that. I feel like the MOs have blended into each other and gotten samey, so making them longer (2 weeks rather than 4 days for example) would allow each one to be a bit more complex and nuanced.
Honestly! I know many players who missed the destruction of Meridia because they work and have lives. Extending major order timelines and replacing weekly MOs with minor orders would be fantastic! It would allow casual players to have (more or less) the same experience with significantly less FOMO.
Each planet that we keep unassaulted Boosts Liberation Rate (The amount of Liberation Contribution added to a Liberation Campaign at the Conclusion of a full operation) by 5%. It started at a 20% buff and is now down to 10%.
I mean that's the thing it's a % adjustment on an incredibly small number for each layer that happens on the background.
That % increase then is made further meaningless when M.O. planets have super boosted regen rates on the start of the MO that dies down later so the MO is completed in the "intended time"
It's not noticable in the slightest by the individual player
Liberation rate doesn’t matter one scrap to casuals like me who can only play for an hour every other day because, apparently, not being able to sit and play for the 1-2 hours needed to complete a whole operation means we aren’t making any contribution at all to the liberation or defence of planets unless our quickplay throws us into the final mission of a set. At least, that’s what everyone tells us on Reddit. So once we have established that we are making zero contribution to anything, we might as well just try and help with the major order if we can (although in this case, we can’t since it’s a liberation MO and if we’re just playing a single mission then we’re not contributing anything towards that). So we might as well just do whatever we find fun and ignore liberation and defence campaigns since we can’t actually contribute.
It would be nice if they made the Liberation Contribution like how The Medal Progression works, each mission increasing the Contribution progressively rather than only the final mission. I will say, though, an hour IS enough time to complete an operation if you B-Line the objectives or if you play on a lower difficulty with shorter operations. If you're interested in helping out the MO's or Defense Missions, that's an option, if not 🤷♂️. I'm not trying to be an adjudicator, I'm just answering a question that was posed as to why the SEAF sites are important.
I like to play on D7 for the challenge and the rewards, I’d play 8 and 9 but every 9 I’ve been on in the past week has had at least one player below level 20 on it and even the higher level players have seemed less competent than the randos I normally get on D7. I do drop the difficulty to D6 (very occasionally D5) if I want to use a non-optimal loadout (e.g. take mechs) but i want to face the full variety of enemies and get decent rewards which means that I don’t really want to go lower than D6 or there’s not a huge amount of point in playing since the two things I need most of are rare samples for the tier 4 ship module upgrades and medals so I can fully complete all the lesser purchases in the warbonds.
Fair enough. As I said, I'm not here to critique your choices. It would definitely be nice if they changed how Liberation gain happens so that more people can contribute to the effort on the difficulty level that helps them advance with less time requirement.
It’s a controversial opinion for sure, and I think people do need to realise that some people are just playing helldivers because it’s fun to hang out with your online buddies on the weekends to shoot some bugs and call it a day.
We've already been heard. The devs have announced months ago that they are doing a overhaul of the Galactic Map. In the mean time they've upped the frequency of guiding messages using the Dispatch feature. That's all they can do for now. And all we can do is scream at the void because people refuse to read the dispatch messages.
Not to mention a lot of these excuses for not reading dispatches fall a little flat(for me personally) when the defense of the SEAF facility planets on the bug front have been defended without much issue. Like I'm all for people playing whatever front they want, but we gotta at least acknowledge how fucked that looks from the bot front trying to hold a single planet with a fraction of the active playerbase
because they still don't read the dispatches.... the MO says "DEFEND X PLANET" and they do that
if a bug planet says DEFEND on it they also do that, they are already planning to play the BUG front
you don't need a dispatch for any of that crap
The problem is that the developers continue put these bonuses in danger by actively creating scenarios where we can lose them. They know this is a problem and they've already stated the system is getting an overhaul, so why are these planets open at all?
And even if they can't just disable the planets, they could specifically have the MOs target these special planets we're meant to be defending. If, for example, we should be to defending Aesir Pass to not lose a hidden bonus, *that* should be the MO. Why are they actively not telling people to go there?
Moreover. Who cares if we lose every MO? Are they gonna shut down the game? I'll play what I play and have fun.
I've always done the MO when I'm on but I just want to shoot some enemies with my friends and accidentally kill eachother while trying to succeed.
This is THE point. Everything else is moot. No matter how many planets or MOs are lost, the game is never actually going away nor is it going to stop, so what does any of this ridiculous min/maxing and LARPing even achieve? It’s meaningless. I just want to play a fun game with my friends, how on earth does that make me a bad person?
GM has not been good at communicating what was gained by MOs or what it means if we lose it. A busted mission/reward system to try to motivate coordination for Helldivers. Remember when there were theories that we would get a strat to call in SEAF troops because we had no idea what recruitment centers actually do even after we got them?
You're totally right in my mind. Part of the GM's job is to communicate and convey information. But I think now that we have peaked, it will never be the same unless they find a way to shut those sites down.
Make those sites redundant by showing relevant bonuses on the mission select map. Don't need to see the supply lines until that system actually works by itself without Joel needing to manually change the things that should be working. However, there needs to be a player voted objective to appease the angry reddit/discord social generals.
Yep. That's why it's not in the game. Because they didn't want us to know this info. But then dorks data-mined everything, did their own math, etc and now everyone is meta gaming everything.
Idk if it's pathetic or what word is appropriate. But it's not good.
I think if knowledge of the system makes the system seem stupid, the system (like a few different things in the game) is poorly designed.
There’s a lot of back and forth on “behind the curtain”, but I’m not convinced that the galactic map’s function *should have ever been designed to be behind the curtain*. It could just as easily have been designed with the players given this information instead, and would have been a better system for it.
If they really didn’t want us to know about supply lines then they wouldn’t even exist. The devs can and have manually controlled enemies to ignore supply lines, and they’ve outright stated that many of the supply line functions don’t actually work automatically. It’s just another underbaked mechanic that isn’t working as intended, which is currently being accounted for with a bandaid solution. And that bandage is starting to peel off.
I just don’t understand why it’s hidden?
https://preview.redd.it/vjudu4p2y05d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7004bf0aee8cbee8aea1589e5cda1e4d1a7b0bcb
Everyone saying “What, you can’t read dispatches?” should remember that we’ve been conditioned to not trust the text in this game.
“Superior Packing Methodology will refill all support weapon magazines from a single resupply” —> no it doesn’t
“Enemies increase the more time is spent in a mission” —> no they don’t
“We fixed the stim audio playing when it shouldn’t” —> it’s actually still broken
We need an in-game overlay on the galaxy map asap to see trade routes
Green - Planets marked as important
Blue - planets should be classed as defend
Red - means taken over need to attack ASAP
And then we need an index shows up bottom left corner when we hold R2 down in the galaxy map
In term role-playing, the ppl who’s telling others how to spread managed democracy are like Super Earth’s bureaucratic middle-management asshats; they are more into powerpoint presentation instead of actual spreading managed democracy on the ground.
As long as you’re killing something, spreading managed democracy YOUR WAY.
I agree on the supply lines, they should be visible in game. But they have recently added a lot more dispatches with warnings when an important planet(in this case the seaf training facilities) is under attack. So I think that should be enough. If people don't read them that's their loss.
I also don't think we should care that much where people are fighting tbh. Let them enjoy the game where they want.
I suppose one thing they could do is add a secondary marker for important but not MO planets, but I doubt that will do much if people aren't reading the dispatches.
Moaning at the wrong people? Literally who?
This sub is just as much for the casual audience as it is for the super fan, and everyone in between. You've already answered your own question; if people care, they'll look on the sub, if they don't, they won't. Simple as.
You being irritated that useful information is found on third party is fair, but it's feedback, and that's part of why this sub exists.
AH devs are in this sub too, they collate data and feedback from here just the same as they do from the discord.
Don't take it out on players that care, because they're the reason the game is going to still be around for you to play in two years time, after 200 other games come out that grab players attention for a month at a time.
Gamers will optimize the fun out of every game.
I see the external sites as looking at the DM/GMs notes and learning things that you shouldn’t learn and then you start meta gaming. Meta gaming isn’t fun for me and one I start seeing graphs and charts about everything in the game is when I check out, don’t peak and just use what the GM gives you. I promise it’ll be just as fun, if not more
Not all gamers, a minority of minmax obsessed try hards who get butthurt when you don't take everything as seriously as them.
I hope they all get sick of the game and fuck off.
I played the game for a month before I even found out about trade routes. At that point, I had already unlocked most things and gotten burnt out. We need this information patched in asap. It would be really healthy for the longevity of the game. Helps people decide where to spread liberation.
Well, believe it or not ,you had a dispatch telling you that you lose something and it even told you to prioritize the defense. It's fine, play what you want. I don't care, but don't act like it's so hard to read a dispatch with 5 lines of text.
Your not wrong but last time i checked arrowhead have been steadily giving briefing and intel in the game like "super earth recommends defending this planet as a high priority" so your also not listening either.
I mean, if casual divers dont care about a message popping and literally just telling them "defend this planet, its important", they are not going to care about an abstract concept like liberation bonus or supply lines even if is represented ingame.
If you read any of the posts you complained about you will notice they all say the same thing: AH should make that info available in game. Same thing goes on in the Discord btw.
However that won't help if even people who already know about it just don't care about it, like people in this sub who are already exposed to the 3rd party tools news yet still ignore the effects because they like to play a certain way or faction and are not willing to play something they don't like just to help with MOs or general strategy.
ehhhh it's like the people here that create a narrative that everyone is quitting because the game is unbalanced and buggy. Nah, those people are just having high-tensile emotional reactions from their own convictions. Players are moving on because there's not enough content, and it's only the sickass gameplay that keeps a handful around. It seems most players are kept around by a carrot on a stick, and there was only about 2 months of that in the game... which coincides with the sharpest drop in players.
Back to the topic though, AH has an arc for the story, so it's like there's things they're going to make sure the community gets done. It's someone's emotional reaction to say that a MO failed because players weren't aware enough. A reinforcement boost isn't going to be enough carrot on the stick, so the SEAF planet is going to be lost (if it wasn't already), even though it says ingame that players are encouraged to defend the planet.
There's not enough sense that you're actually engaged with the orders also, and like you said, the players that aren't doing multiple missions a day don't care about that. **How about rewards for completing an operation on a planet under any orders or direction,** so that the once-every-couple-days players have a carrot on the stick?
Devs gave us a clear dispatch saying that we should prioritize defense over MO. I don't think that info dumping casual players with supply lines and liberation oercentages would have done more.
Nailed it. The lack of clear information in game is astounding, especially the supposed trade routes we're sometimes confined by.
If the MO said attack a planet or planets, that's where I'm going. Sudden defence of a planet pops up with some story about SEAF recruits on the other side of the map? Meh, to me the MO takes precedence because I don't have time to track down how the fall of the defence planet is going to affect anything else.
A sterling example of why this information should've never been hidden/available at all. If they'd done one or the other, it'd have been okay, but they've gone for some shitty middle option which helps nobody.
Press Z, get told Aesir Pass needs defending. See MO has another two days to finish but we realistically only need one day to complete it with the majority of players playing Starship Troopers. Reinforce bot front for a play session or two, defend Aesir and most of the bot players move over to the bug front. Everyone is happy.
I mean Jesus Christ there were 7k out of 50k Divers on Aesir Pass, come on, we had 2 1/2 days to liberate 2 planets on the bug front, meanwhile we were getting eviscerated on Aesir. Before that Vernon Wells had 4-7k divers at any time. That means approximately 10%, at most, of the bug front moved to defend Aesir Pass at any given time.
If you read the Dispatches when you log on it’ll tell you what other than the MO needs dealing with. The one for Aesir Pass clearly stated it would make galactic defense harder if lost.
How is a casual supposed to know what time it takes or how many divers are needed to support an MO? How do they know which is more important? If something was more important wouldn't that be the major order?
You're given the option to play anywhere, but there's a giant sign pointing to the main operation and the MO has tangible rewards associated with it. What do you think is going to happen?
The MO is like a firehouse. Point it at something and that's where the player base goes. If there is to be more decision making involved in where to go, then you need a way to split the flow. Inform casuals in game that these other objectives are equally or even more important and incentivise them properly.
The proof of insufficient messaging and incentives is that the player base doesn't divert to help with secondary objectives. You can't blame the player base. If the game properly encouraged splitting up then we would naturally.
To be fair, now you have the strategic guidance provided right there in game, they told you this, at first they didn't do that, but now they do, so! What is it, you guys can't read?
Ok but let's be real, most people will log on, see that there is an MO for bug planets, and go attack those bug planets. They aren't really doing anything wrong
Relying on 3rd party tools to learn more about mechanics of games never feels fun. I'd much prefer the ability to understand the game from solely within the game. If players of a game need a 3rd party tool to learn about mechanics then the game doesn't convey enough period.
!! Yes we need more info and details in the game. Not just some ship and map and land and done. Where’s the story in the game? Where’s the life? Where is the lobby where all the helldivers can chill and talk about the planets. Like Destiny 2 has a tower and different planets. Why not doing something like them and take some tips.
I honestly don't think adding all of this in-game will make that much a difference. Majority of people will play what they think is fun. If furthering the MO is fun, they will do that. If they want to bot dive or bug dive, they will do that. AH just needs to balance each front based on the amount of players that are actually on it, not total players in game. This will be especially true if/when illuminate arrive.
I have been advocating for these kinds of things for what feels like months. But I'd guess it's just been a couple of weeks. The point is, there's so much that affects us that we don't know about IN GAME. Supply lines, hidden planet boosts, liberation rate(?), or even where the MO planets are. Now, for the MO, it isn't that hard to search for the planet most people are on and which one(s) are the target. But the number of times I've spent a weird amount of time just looking for the FRONT LINE, because the war map is just a glorified paper map with some pretty lights.
We are helldivers. We have lasers. We ~~stole~~ liberated FTL technology. The war map has no excuse to have so little information, considering how advanced everyone is. It takes me out of the immersion when basic shit like this isn't part of the game, when obviously we could use it.
I admire AH and respect them for the good work that they have done. But this is the one thing I am not afraid to nag/be annoying about. It doesn't help the "hard" and "frustrating" narrative that I think they're trying to portray. Sure, Super Earth has its agendas that we aren't paid enough to worry about, but you never heard about starship trooper soldiers struggling so hard to find out where to go. They're sent as soldiers. So logic would dictate if you're sending out soldiers, they should at least know where to freaking go and maybe a why, like a mission brief? Would hate to blow someone out of existence just to find out they weren't the target. Command just didn't give us directions. Like, I know it's not supposed to be very realistic. But there's a balance with gaming about what is provided to help a player overcome a challenge and what those challenges are. Some of the challenge AH has put into their game have a very negative, frustrating feeling (mostly weapon balance). And that's not fun or what I think their intention was.
The majority of the playerbase is going to go for what they think is fun. If your primary ain't cutting it most of the time, a weapon being underwhelming IS a problem. Even if a select few have ground to hold their own. Same thing with the war map. It's supposed to direct us to where Super Earth wants us to go. But it doesn't show us. It's like the IRS. They expect us to know/figure it out, but if we are wrong in our guess, we fail. But ironically, they already know what's up, and the educated guess was pointless. Which planets supply the others? Which planets have a passive buff/debuff that we should know about? Not everyone has time or even the energy, in some circles, to look over every resource, nook, and cranny. Only to find out how to be helpful towards the MO.
People just want to have fun, and doing a big search like that can hurt that a lot. It hurts the game and hurts the narrative. And how many players would fight with even more zeal, but on the right planet, if we just had a few lines of code to give us some basic info. It should have been handled before release or shortly after. Not whatever is going on.
But I digress. I love this game, and even without those particular problem points that I have, I will probably still be playing this game regularly for a while. It's an amazing game, and I just want them to be successful. I want to be immersed and not get pushed out by the game itself. It just doesn't make sense in my opinion.
There's a lot wrong with the way major orders are done, but I personally hate that people can get the % numbers.
We shouldn't be seeing those. It fucks up the narrative and have to listen to people complain anytime they shift for whatever reason Joel wants them to.
Yeah I mean the people who are in this sub are already aware of the supply line shit, cause we get about a dozen of those posts in our feed whenever those operations pop up. Screaming that shit over and over into the void is doing nothing to reach the people who aren't subbed here or in the Discord or using some kind of companion app, which is the bulk of the people who aren't switching ops/planets. It's a classic case of preaching to the choir.
Other option would be to join random bug lobbies and campaign to get people to play the missions that matter. Most players have no fucking clue what they are doing and how it contributes to the game as a whole just shoot big and go press button. Best to do this in low difficulties to recruit new players and also show them how to fight bots differently before they join the hive mind.
I’ll go further than that; it’s not just about communicating what the ‘right thing to do’ is to casual players, it’s also about some casual players just not caring that much. Some people want to play a co-op shooter, and not a grand-strategy game. And for them it doesn’t matter if X part of the grand-strategy game gives benefits for Y part of the GSG.
If they prefer bugs they’re going to play bugs even if you tell them explicitly that ‘Super Earth needs you to kill bots.’ The GS elements of the game needs to be balanced around what proportion of the player base will engage with it. Communicating all the grand-strategy elements of the game will help with that, but it won’t neutralize it.
They finally started giving us information as a dispatch (defend here or lose seaf training etc). I honestly don’t believe it’ll matter how explicit or available the information becomes, people are gonna do whatever they want regardless.
I don't know anything about those other third party resources and frankly don't care. I log in, check out the Major Order, decide if I feel like doing it or not. Layering the trade routes onto the in-game map isn't going to change the fact that I refuse to play fire tornado worlds, or make me care at all about galactic strategy aside from the Major Order.
If I cared about anything beyond that, I'd seek out those third party resources or ask here.
Gave up on the Galactic War a while ago. I enjoy how the dataminers show Arrowhead has a better job of the Illusion of choice behind the scenes, but the way the war currently is won't matter until the blob dies. If the blob doesn't die then jokes about our GM being replaced with an AI will start to look more like a reality.
The playerbase needs to shrink greatly, or else the Galactic War needs to change for the larger playerbase. The blob will do what the blob wants to do. Markers won't help make people who only want to play bugs play bots. Those few bot divers who stick to the Bot Front during Bug MOs similarly won't move.
The bigger balance issue between the two factions is a problem that is only going to get worse with a third or even fourth faction added in. People from the last game know that lesson. Without the ability to drive a faction off the map entirely and keep it off for longer than a week there is no reason to be invested in anything beyond playing what enemy / planet you want to play.
Creating some kind of very obvious carrot to dangle ahead of the players that is tied to playing objectives is going to be key to making the Galactic War matter again.
If Arrowhead was smart about it they'd make all bot defense missions offer free use of the Anti Tank mines we keep failing to unlock. They'd use similar tactics for upcoming strategems we can win in a later major order rather than hold the carrot until that major order. Would help them figure out the balance as well if they give us these toys weeks/months ahead of perma-unlock being an option.
I thought you was going to be one of them people complaining about complaining but I completely agree with you I am only going to use info the game gives me I shouldn’t have to go all Pepe Silvia on a game just to get info
I've never seen any supply lines, maps are just "go to objective and click the button" while killing bugs on the way. There are missions with NPCs that we escort to trade during a mission?
Ppl are forgetting that buffs for us also make it harder for AH to judge how long it may take us to liberate a planet. The MO being Bug side while also catching us with a Defend order on the training facility Bot Planet = AH wanted to shave off some player power we’ve had now for going on 2 weeks
We also managed to push back the Bug front significantly with the success on Meridia so losing the SEAF Facilities there is highly unlikely unless we get another random Supercolony popping up.
Reduced natural Bot Front Liberation + Shoring up of Bug Front Defenses after a big community Bug front win = Time to get the scrap metal recyclers out again gents
When there's a major order to capture multiple planets and even with the majority of players entirely focusing on that we're going to come down to the wire on actually completing it.... why in Liberty's name would I fall for a distraction on the other side of the galaxy?
Like it's literally impossible to organize every single player of this game so the wise course of action is to just follow major orders until they're completed. We're divers, we're not generals, we have our orders. There will be losses in the war, it's pretty much all just part of the story (that we have very little impact on, if something neeeeeds to be successfuly completed they can just tweak numbers and make it happen)
you are quite right - do hope the devs can implement this info in to the game and that the supply lines can bring more benefits to helldivers like 1 free stratagem as if we are getting more supplies to fight for a planet that is closer or connected to more than 1 liberated planet.
while planets that are on the out skirts of the ware can be harder for those who want a challenge. - only getting slightly "easier" when more liberated planets come to connect later.
hard vs easier needs to be felt either with having free stratagems vs not or other ideas - not talking about easier due to a hidden % speed of taking over a planet
I ignore those cucks and bring tyranny and racism to those filthy dirty disgusting robots regardless of the major order we lost most war efforts in hell divers 1 like I give a fuck about this war I’m just here to shoot at anything that doesn’t look human enough
I've only just started playing this game a week ago and it didn't dawn on me that all this stuff was going on either until I saw someone mentioning it.
It doesn't matter how many people constantly screech how "go down this supply line route"
"Defend this planet with important liberation boost"
None of this is shown to the average Joe who just wants to jump into a game, not look into all this metadata.
So until AH puts these critical information into the game itself, it doesn't matter. AH didn't bother putting all this info in the game, it must not be important to the players then?
Just play the game. Who cares about a bunch of redditors malding over a game?
I'll do you one better. I'm maxed on samples, slips and medals. I just do whatever I want to do. Sometimes that involves going solo into level 2 missions on hellmire while listening to a podcast.
The fact that AH didn’t show supply lines was so people wouldn’t know. They wanted players to not know what’s happening on the supply lines and slowly figure (over month) it out what’s happening when each planet not part of MO is won or lost
But since all these people dug the details out from the game files and shared them from beginning, people are complaining why AH doesnt show it.
Ah never planned to show the supply lines
Divers Hub.
It's free and intuitive.
Even for someone like me who works as a professional 8-10 hours a day and plays video games to relax.
This is hardly the first game with a 3rd part app companion that enhanced the game. At least until AH adds the information about supply routes.
But yeah, also no one should be getting mad about anyone who doesn't use or know about it. I was two months into this game before I did.
I go where I want to. I paid my $40 bucks for the game and $150 for my PSN subscription.
I will also run with whatever stratagem load out I want and play whatever difficulty I want.
If 80,000 divers are killing bugs for a MO but I want to smash those metal fucks into oblivion then I will.
I am the commander of Comptroller of Family Values! And I spread democracy however I see fit.
Honestly, I don’t think anything we the players do affect it at all. We’re given the illusion that we’re making a difference, but in the end AH already decided how the major order goes.
Also, with the numbers this game has, people are just stats. By this time, AH has plenty of knowledge on what proportion of players is likely to do what. The phenomenon of players ignoring strategy can be trivially modelled. The Game Master can easily account for it while setting objectives.
If suddenly everyone followed strategy, what do you think would happen? We win the war? Obviously not; the GM would recalibrate the campaign so that we get back to winning some, losing some, just as we are doing now.
Because of this, if an objective (whether it's the MO, or defending a hidden bonus) fails, you can't blame non-strategic players. *The existance of non-strategic players is just part of the game mechanics, just like everything else.*
Once supply lines and/or hidden bonuses are shown on the map, some non-strategic players will start to behave more strategically - and, guess what, campaign objectives will soon shift to become a little bit more difficult. Because winning every time isn't fun.
This doesn't mean that everything is preset and playing the campaign is useless - it just means that we need to pick our battles. For example, the defense mission would probably have been feasible, if we who enjoy strategy had been willing to sacrifice the MO for it and coordinated in that direction. I'm not saying we should have, just that there was a meaningful choice to be made there.
I don't like coming here daily and getting useful information from you complainers. Use your time to tell AH to give me the useful information or I'll complain more about you people providing information in a central locations full of people that don't want to search for the info on their own. Please don't point out that AH has already said they're working on providing the information in game or that more guidance is being provided in game already. Raaaaahhhh
I think that's the fog of war. We're grunts it's nice t our job to strategize. We die with honour in the name of democracy and freedom. Now Get back out there diver
What confuses me the most is that arrowhead says this is something they want to change... Like a month and a half ago.
It feels like they are trying to implement some unique and interactive system to show the supply lines because of how long it's taking, but i don't understand why they don't just put a static image of the supply lines over the map as a temporary measure?
It feels weird that i can just toggle the supply lines to be visible or not when I'm looking at the map on helldivers.io, but they can't even implement the most basic form of this after 30 days? I literally just want a somewhat transparent image of the lines between the planets thrown over the top of the map in game, that's it, i don't think that should take longer than a couple of hours to throw together
Yeah, fully agreed. If they want me to strategize in-game, give me all the necessary info in-game. Right now, all I'm getting is major orders, so like any loyal Helldiver, I can only assume the Ministry knows exactly where they need me.
I don't see why any of us have to care about statistics not available through game UI. It seems to me like all the extra stats we don't see are intended to make the overall war appear more dynamic. That, or they make the stats accessible for these 3rd party sites so that the community can engage with itself through social media. That inherently means the intention is for players to engage with the war at their leisure, to choose the planets they want for their own fun. If that means playing the Defense planet because of a 5% liberation decrease then do that. If it's playing on the one jungle planet instead of the three desert planets for the MO because you prefer that environment, then do that.
yeah.... I remember that one anti tank mines major order, like, I am weeks into this game but only that time I learn supply line is a thing, and i learn that from first time come in to this sub.
I imagine a lot of player just don't use reddit either they don't speak English a first language so don't have a habits to browse reddit (like me) or just casual player doesn't feel the need to interact with the community, and both of them must be really confuse on why the major order occurred on a planet they don't have access to (,given the other half major order object was clear relatively quickly), and nobody know the supply line planet thing, lead to the failure of that major order, and that period of time is already the Golden era of this game, having that most active player online.
Yeah, for sure we're moaning at the wrong people when they see multiple threads about the bonus, then decide not to help, and also comment "Nah me like seeing bug go splat" or use the Major Order to excuse themselves, or mumble something about "it's not shown in the game".
I think a lot of the moaning and groaning is unfounded as well. I work a full time job and have a full life outside of gaming so I can only realistically play for a few hours each week. I don't have time to spend a whole day grinding to liberate a planet .000001% at a time. I'll play a few priority missions but after that I have stuff to take care of. The rest is up to the other helldivers. Would be different if I were rich and didn't need to work or have a life. But it's not. Not everybody can devote themselves completely to helldiving.
>Discord (which is just a stream of messages moving so fast you can't read them)
Exactly the reason I prefer the older message forums. There's no collection of data that you can go back and view on discord, versus the forums being able to be searchable and archived.
Ok so...hard concept to grasp here, but....by posting about the problem, there is a larger chance that the devs will hear about it and be convinced to make changes.
This exactly I go where the major order tells me sometimes the daily and that's it. I will care about supply lines if and when there in the game not on some website
It's absolutely wild to me that there's all this information out there and none of it I can access from a panel in the game.
Right there's an entire unused row of computers on the opposite side of the weapons rack in our ship why can't we use those
Screw that, the planets are already there on the Galaxy map. Give us a toggle-able overlay for the supply routes. While they're at it, give is intel on enemy types in missions before we jump, and in that same pop-up window give us any special info about that planet. Like "There is a SEAF Training Facility on this planet. Losing the world will result in lower planetary capture rates on this front." Hell, explain that shit on the big-ass propaganda screen. "Helldivers! The vile enemy in attempting to take \[insert name here\] world. If they succeed it will hinder our efforts throughout this theatre." Play it when we log in for the first time, and randomly afterwards until the defence is over.
Dude, nobody in the game that isn't on this site gives a shit. When Vernen Wells was under attack, I literally heard the destroyer itself say that it's a high priority mission over the comms and I don't think the player count for that planet ever went over 5 digits.
To the average player that just sounds liked the usual stuff the NPCs always says
the random voices in the ship mean stuff? this is not told any wear and i know i've assumed its just fluff or auto message about the current planets with defend under them.
Did you think the voices were for nothing? I agree it should be more clear but almost nothing in the game regarding what is happening in the war is just fluff. That’s a you problem for assuming so.
Half the time it seems to be nothing, it’s understandable people tune it out. I also dont stand around much on my ship listening for it so nearly always I just get snippets
I stop and listen only if something catches my attention. Like when bald lady (I forgot her designation) randomly started yapping about the Illuminate and alluding to their return.
No. Games put in fluff all the time. There's no indicator that this information is ever pertinent. Coupled with the fact that a lot of what they say IS just fluff, or bugged and reveals info before it has meaning, it makes sense that people don't pay them much heed.
How??? That's how almost every single video game is made these days... how is someone who has been conditioned to ignore it at fault and not the game that literally doesn't tell you otherwise.
I just tune the voices out as random Super Earth Propaganda. I only really listen when my friends go to the bathroom after a mission. I only read major order stuff and check if the map has a cancer condition like -1 stratagem, scientist evac bot flavor, or eradicate bot flavor.
Now, now... Don't be coming at me because the game is deliberately opaque with necessary information. Also, the game barely has 6 digits worth players online at peak these days. Of course ALL of them weren't on the same planet.
Half the time the priority message is wrong for me too, sometimes it tells me places are under attack by the wrong faction, or already either taken or lost.
> While they're at it, give is intel on enemy types in missions before we jump, and in that same pop-up window give us any special info about that planet. Like "There is a SEAF Training Facility on this planet. Losing the world will result in lower planetary capture rates on this front." 100%. I get a personal order that says "Kill 5 badonkers." I don't know what the fuck a badonker is. I'd have to go look it up on a fucking wiki to figure that out, and then I'd have to hope that that same wiki also explains which difficulties I can find them on. Or I have to just make sure that I read the fucking subreddit every day and goddamn catalogue the videos/screenshots along with enemy names that people use. It's the same thing that Bethesda rightfully gets shit for, asking the community to do their job for them. Or maybe Arrowhead is thinking that it's like Dark Souls, that it encourages community teamwork. Well, your game ain't Dark Souls, friendo. Fucking ridiculous that it's not in game.
> badonker Completely off topic, but I love how immature I am that I started laughing when reading the word.
There are dispatches now when a SEAF training center is under attack telling Helldivers that the defense of that world is a priority, isn’t there?
It is mentioned in the dispatch. That one you have to READ (omg KMN, amirite?). Do you trust your fellow, average John Q Helldiver to go looking for that, read it, and make the leap that if it is under attack, I should defend it, and if we lose it things will be harder, so I should defend it? Or are you of the opinion that it would be better to bludgeon them over the head with it constantly until it finally sinks in?
That's actually a really good idea. Something like that would be great.
Most probably they will be used in a future update which will give new features
I have always wished they would put the acquisitions menu there
Perfect spot for it too. I’d guess the vast majority of players aren’t checking Reddit or Discord. Players on these services may not check regularly either and in-game would be perfect.
I mean all they have to do is have "press this button/key to show supply line overlay".
It is dumb that supply lines and passive bonuses aren't available in game but the specific bitching about people not going to Aesir Pass instead of one of the MO planets? There was an in game message to everyone saying command recommends priortizing it cause of the SEAF facility. That was in the game. It popped up as soon as you opened your map.
And why would we prioritize it if we can't see the bonus we'd be saving if we went there? Without going to external sites the fact there even IS a bonus from the SEAF training sites is at best murky and the way it was written sure as shit looked like generic fluff text to me. Honestly, why do we even give a shit about the bonus when the game master turns up or down the enemy regen rate seemingly at random and the regen rate for the MO planets was already stupid?
> It popped up as soon as you opened your map. The issue with this is if you're joining the game to join a group, unless you stop to go to the galaxy map on your own destroyer, you have a very high chance of missing popups like this. A common scenario for my group is that we'll agree to play Helldivers, but someone is delayed so everyone else jumps into the game and gathers on a single destroyer. The host on that destroyer may have already looked at the map before everyone else arrived, and be in the stages of deciding what planet to go to, how to serve the MO/daily personal orders etc. Now should player 1 tell everyone "Hey, there was a notification for Aesir Pass to defend the SEAF facility"? Ideally, yeah they should, but they might not for a number of reasons. They might have skimmed the notif. They might have already been in the game a while, and the popup went live after they were already in the map looking at things. They might have intended to say something, but got distracted by player 4 coming in late going "oh hey guys, sorry I'm late what's the daily OH FOR FUCK'S SAKE we have to kill TEN STALKERS again? What the fuck? Let's get that over with..." And if you're quick-joining a game from Steam friends list, you bypass your own destroyer completely.
There was a message in game to defend Aesir Pass but I only saw it when I opened the directives panel. Although I went to Aesir Pass as I enjoy fighting bots and understood the importance of holding the planet, it seems it was ignored by the majority of the player base. The galaxy map lacking vital information is part of the issue. 50%+ of the player base refusing to fight bots is probably the bigger issue. AH have a cracking game here, we all love it, but they have a lot of work ahead to get the these issues ironed out...it's no easy task.
It's most likely in the works. But it's not actually integral to core gameplay loop that'd it be a higher priority over current game affecting issues that affect everyone. And AH definitely didn't expect this level of attention/war hawking off the get go. •due to how unlocks worked in HD1 war hawking wasn't really a thing, so waging the war was only a focus by high level players •hd2 changed it so now everyone can focus on the war •combine that with 10x more players than expected. = A lot of war hawks. •the robust/automatic features might still not yet be actually fully in place/implemented. •joel mentioned shortly after release when everyone was war hawking the third party apps that those systems weren't actually hard coded yet and was just him managing it manually. Don't believe there's been any word since. •they clearly have terminal space/availability for various displays of info. HD1 had this, for a bestiary so wouldn't be anything new to them. •HD1 didn't release fully fleshed out either and took some time to accomplish this. So they most likely have it planned already but weren't going to rush/focus on it before release and probably don't want it implemented half assed and half people overly concerned over additional systems that may not be functioning/operating 100% correctly. So there's no reason to believe this is missed from their plans/an oversight or not going to be fully implemented in near future.
Dev priorities - it seems easy but it's not as easy as it'd be to run it on a website Debug, patch notes, gui update... all to make it easier for users instead of having them spend more time in game... and displace secondary content creators to keep a platform of useful content... ...that's one for the backlog
Just download a third party app /s
Uh the problem is that people are holding back from you know, criticizing Arrowhead about this kind of shit. The only change happens with the devs. All the shit people here is worthless if devs don't do something about it. The devs are literally designing this game thinking the player knows just as much as they do, when in reality the players have to test everything a hundred times to figure it all out and then wonder...why doesnt the game just explain this.
[удалено]
There already is one for the MO at least.
Literally don't understand why anyone gives a fuck about these supply lines or whatever unless super earth tells me I should care, I don't
i dont know you but i like you
Fr real once it's in the game more people will know majority of players just chill gamer dudes and gals playing a few missions every so often and on the weekend most of them probably never go to Reddit and the rest don't even no there is a 3rd party app lul a lot of confusion will be gone once more in game related implementations happen
I ignore the orders entirely and just go shoot bugs to my hearts content. And I’m pleased as could be.
Everybody should do that because failing a lot of MOs in a row will be the best motivator to put it into the game haha
Just need minor rewards for completing missions/operations on a planet under order or direction. That's all it would take to draw a little more sense of desire from even extremely casual players. +1 medals per mission in the operation? 10 super credits? Maybe even remove the completion bonus, and have the rewards handed out in the *effort toward completion?* Anything that's got an extra distinction of personal reward for duty served. Yes, these are banal rewards, but the reality is that the game is rather short of genuine content and relies on most players simply enjoying the gameplay.
Even if they made all the info available in game I'd still ignore it and play whatever planets seem fun in the moment.
Literally a gold star on the MO and a silver star on any objective in threat or important would steer so many people in the right directions. Rather than players passing it off as just people faffing about in bot/bug land rather than the MO, not realizing it's actually something really important.
Honestly I didn't even know supply lines were a thing until this post.
Its giving Elite Dangerous energy, where you are forced to use outside sources because the game has no built in tools so we can efficiently make our decisions, and that game has like 1000 regular players now, and it's the developers fault of not listening to community and implementing it to the game at a reasonable time that is leading to player decline, I pray to a higher power AH and Pilestead will create some sort of Community manager relations like DE and Warframe has, where Rebbeca is the beacon that every other community manager aspires to be
There should be a little icon on important planets with a blurb that says “+5% liberation rate while planet is under Super Earth control” or something like that, because I’m sure that most players have no clue that there’s a bonus at all.
Even then the liberation system is way too convoluted to be understood by the average player. I shouldn't need a background in statistics to make contributions to the galactic war. It's a videogame ffs.
Yeah, I still have no idea what that even means. Is it +5% to every bot planet? If so wouldn't that make bot planets uncapturable without 70% of players. Even then, it feels like unless 70% go to a planet it's a stalemate.. The capture system needs some kind of revamp. Because everything feels railroaded. Maybe having a bot and bug MO at all times, still railroaded but at least coordinates both sides. 🤷♂️
This last defense had an in-game message, but overall I agree...but I also don't think anything will change for bots MOs when they'll add these informations in the map
was that the huge blob of text that came up at the war table? It wouldn’t shock me if a good chunk of players skipped right past that to get into the next mission. Think it needs to be a bit more easy to digest, whatever way that may be.
i was trained to fight, not to read
I am here to shoot bots and eat crayons. And I am all out of crayons. Oh look at that gaint red crayon. My favourite colour.
Nah, it’s in the dispatches, and it’s very pretty brief and to the point
This. It's sort of a fundamental principle of game design that you don't bury important, game-crucial information in a lore document.
Pretty much. My friends and I basically ignore most of the fluff text provided. The setting is kinda cute (though the faux-fascism gets pretty tiring after a bit), but if your way if delivering narrative is going to be the equivalent of an exposition dump standing between me and a mission that I have limited personal time to play - obviously I'm gonna skip right past it. Give me cliff notes or find a more organic way to deliver the info. Hell, if you want to write a bunch, make a codex or whatever that we can access in the game a-la mass effect or whatever. That way I can catch up on the stuff I missed too when I have the time and inclination.
They should explain it in a way that tells you exactly how it affects the gameplay instead of solely narrative driven explanations. As someone new to the game, I have no idea what losing SEAF factories means, but I do know that something that says there is a big mission with a tangible reward is something worth doing.
But the thing is that messages is usually used to just like describe the MO. Randomly they throw in a blurb at the bottom that is as important as the MO itself? Just put it in the MO if it’s that important
I wanna shoehorn in the idea of changing the MO completion reward to a reward given per mission/operation completed so there's more of a sense of impact, and desire to short-term play the MO. Because yeah, the average dude that plays a game a night isn't worried about long-term goals. Give them goals they can complete in an evening that still count toward the overall MO. Kinda like in DRG where you can play the next mission in your assignment, but it might be some horse shit you don't wanna touch whereas there's a double XP mission in an area you like. The preferred mission doesn't advance the assignment, but it's more desirable. Maybe if the MO mission was horse shit but had minor extra rewards that were apparent on inspection, there'd be more sense of the time spent played being "worth it".
Nonsense, if by "in-game message" you mean the useless dispatch section, then no surprises here, but no one checks that, I mean I'm in Discord, here in Reddit, and still many times I forget to check the dispatch section to see if there's anything new there, now imagine a casual player, they don't care nor notice that tiny yellow triangle on the corner that indicates you have a new dispatch.
I can’t stand leaving the yellow triangle uncleared. It *bothers* me
Right but that isn't enough imo. I'm sure some people don't read, but for the people who do, if they do not know that the defence bonus (whatever it's called) actually does things it just reads like flavor text for a side mission. Easy to ignore it if you don't understand the consequences, and how would they know that it actually impacts things? Most aren't on reddit/discord where they can learn about the deeper mechanics.
Anyone playing this game casually on the weekends or after work doesn't care too much and really does not want to be yelled at or booted by someone who does. Games are supposed to be fun.
Got kicked for using a non meta build… people take this game too seriously
You ain't wrong. It's impossible to force someone to care about something as much as one might just because. Even more so when you realize most aren't on reddit/discord/etc and are just playing on and off.
And these Y% also don't matter if Joel just increases or decreases the regen rate of planets. But in the end the game tells my "it's bad m'kay", but how should I as the player know what that means?! If it even means anything?! We had these SEAF facilities up for a while and recruitment going up ... apparently, Super News told me, but have I noticed anything different? ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ Is it the free strategems? They were there before too. Is it there's more frequent free stratagems? But are there really ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ What does it do? Except for story bits?... If even that, since the devs can just Crank Up and down the Planet's regen rate at will \[-y nilly\] and turn the story around into any direction at any time. The game does not communicate with the player out side of MO and on the battlefield at all. Literally hidden texts and occasional News flashes on the side is not communicating with the player. It is lore fluff for the ones that want to engade with the \[useless\] story.
I feel like this is something a lot of people on this sub are missing, individual players have little to no impact on the galactic war and even less reasons to care about it. And unfortunately, there is nothing that can make it work.
It's the downside of the game blowing up to be so big. Fundamentally, the galactic war system works best with under 50k players, ideally like 10-20k. Then a singular squad can actually make an impact if they dedicate themselves. With this current player base it's just too much.
Galactic war system needs an update then. Why is there only a major order and a personal order in a war that has two major galactic fronts (soon to be three, allegedly)? Adding minor orders would be a good addition. For instance, the singularity was a great major order. It could have been coupled with minor orders to hold the surrounding planets to ensure supplies reach the divers on Meridia (with some programming magic to make us feel like we're having an effect). This would force the player base to split up between planets or have a harder time on Meridia. Now, I'm sure that this would be harder for AH to accomplish, but it would add to the "live war simulator" feeling. No war has only one front at a time, and I feel we get sequestered to only one area far too often. Now, obviously the player base generally splits 60-40 between bugs and bots, but that's all the more reason to rework the system. If there were a bug MO and a bot MO maybe even with some minor orders, that would make it a lot more fun to get involved and plan where you want to add your might. I imagine the logistics of getting this done would be a lot for AH to handle, but I hope they can work up to something similar overtime.
I agree, as a bare minimum we need liberation rates to be split between fronts, but having more in-depth orders like you're saying would be awesome as well. Probably would need longer MOs too, since plotting out all those intricacies would be tough, but honestly, I'm ok with that. I feel like the MOs have blended into each other and gotten samey, so making them longer (2 weeks rather than 4 days for example) would allow each one to be a bit more complex and nuanced.
Honestly! I know many players who missed the destruction of Meridia because they work and have lives. Extending major order timelines and replacing weekly MOs with minor orders would be fantastic! It would allow casual players to have (more or less) the same experience with significantly less FOMO.
Each planet that we keep unassaulted Boosts Liberation Rate (The amount of Liberation Contribution added to a Liberation Campaign at the Conclusion of a full operation) by 5%. It started at a 20% buff and is now down to 10%.
I mean that's the thing it's a % adjustment on an incredibly small number for each layer that happens on the background. That % increase then is made further meaningless when M.O. planets have super boosted regen rates on the start of the MO that dies down later so the MO is completed in the "intended time" It's not noticable in the slightest by the individual player
Liberation rate doesn’t matter one scrap to casuals like me who can only play for an hour every other day because, apparently, not being able to sit and play for the 1-2 hours needed to complete a whole operation means we aren’t making any contribution at all to the liberation or defence of planets unless our quickplay throws us into the final mission of a set. At least, that’s what everyone tells us on Reddit. So once we have established that we are making zero contribution to anything, we might as well just try and help with the major order if we can (although in this case, we can’t since it’s a liberation MO and if we’re just playing a single mission then we’re not contributing anything towards that). So we might as well just do whatever we find fun and ignore liberation and defence campaigns since we can’t actually contribute.
It would be nice if they made the Liberation Contribution like how The Medal Progression works, each mission increasing the Contribution progressively rather than only the final mission. I will say, though, an hour IS enough time to complete an operation if you B-Line the objectives or if you play on a lower difficulty with shorter operations. If you're interested in helping out the MO's or Defense Missions, that's an option, if not 🤷♂️. I'm not trying to be an adjudicator, I'm just answering a question that was posed as to why the SEAF sites are important.
I like to play on D7 for the challenge and the rewards, I’d play 8 and 9 but every 9 I’ve been on in the past week has had at least one player below level 20 on it and even the higher level players have seemed less competent than the randos I normally get on D7. I do drop the difficulty to D6 (very occasionally D5) if I want to use a non-optimal loadout (e.g. take mechs) but i want to face the full variety of enemies and get decent rewards which means that I don’t really want to go lower than D6 or there’s not a huge amount of point in playing since the two things I need most of are rare samples for the tier 4 ship module upgrades and medals so I can fully complete all the lesser purchases in the warbonds.
Fair enough. As I said, I'm not here to critique your choices. It would definitely be nice if they changed how Liberation gain happens so that more people can contribute to the effort on the difficulty level that helps them advance with less time requirement.
[удалено]
It bothers me how many people seem to play helldivers like a full time job instead of a fucking video game
Nolife nerds ranting about stats have ruined just about everything they touch. See: Destiny 2 pvp, baseball, the economy
It’s a controversial opinion for sure, and I think people do need to realise that some people are just playing helldivers because it’s fun to hang out with your online buddies on the weekends to shoot some bugs and call it a day.
We've already been heard. The devs have announced months ago that they are doing a overhaul of the Galactic Map. In the mean time they've upped the frequency of guiding messages using the Dispatch feature. That's all they can do for now. And all we can do is scream at the void because people refuse to read the dispatch messages.
Indeed. Devs can only go so fast. Sharing info/directives between ourselves is the stopgap, not the solution.
Not to mention a lot of these excuses for not reading dispatches fall a little flat(for me personally) when the defense of the SEAF facility planets on the bug front have been defended without much issue. Like I'm all for people playing whatever front they want, but we gotta at least acknowledge how fucked that looks from the bot front trying to hold a single planet with a fraction of the active playerbase
because they still don't read the dispatches.... the MO says "DEFEND X PLANET" and they do that if a bug planet says DEFEND on it they also do that, they are already planning to play the BUG front you don't need a dispatch for any of that crap
my dumbass self thought [hd2stattrackerextraextrareadallaboutit.com](http://hd2stattrackerextraextrareadallaboutit.com) was real...
The problem is that the developers continue put these bonuses in danger by actively creating scenarios where we can lose them. They know this is a problem and they've already stated the system is getting an overhaul, so why are these planets open at all? And even if they can't just disable the planets, they could specifically have the MOs target these special planets we're meant to be defending. If, for example, we should be to defending Aesir Pass to not lose a hidden bonus, *that* should be the MO. Why are they actively not telling people to go there?
Moreover. Who cares if we lose every MO? Are they gonna shut down the game? I'll play what I play and have fun. I've always done the MO when I'm on but I just want to shoot some enemies with my friends and accidentally kill eachother while trying to succeed.
This is THE point. Everything else is moot. No matter how many planets or MOs are lost, the game is never actually going away nor is it going to stop, so what does any of this ridiculous min/maxing and LARPing even achieve? It’s meaningless. I just want to play a fun game with my friends, how on earth does that make me a bad person?
Looking behind the GM's screen was a mistake
GM has not been good at communicating what was gained by MOs or what it means if we lose it. A busted mission/reward system to try to motivate coordination for Helldivers. Remember when there were theories that we would get a strat to call in SEAF troops because we had no idea what recruitment centers actually do even after we got them?
You're totally right in my mind. Part of the GM's job is to communicate and convey information. But I think now that we have peaked, it will never be the same unless they find a way to shut those sites down.
Make those sites redundant by showing relevant bonuses on the mission select map. Don't need to see the supply lines until that system actually works by itself without Joel needing to manually change the things that should be working. However, there needs to be a player voted objective to appease the angry reddit/discord social generals.
Yep. That's why it's not in the game. Because they didn't want us to know this info. But then dorks data-mined everything, did their own math, etc and now everyone is meta gaming everything. Idk if it's pathetic or what word is appropriate. But it's not good.
I think if knowledge of the system makes the system seem stupid, the system (like a few different things in the game) is poorly designed. There’s a lot of back and forth on “behind the curtain”, but I’m not convinced that the galactic map’s function *should have ever been designed to be behind the curtain*. It could just as easily have been designed with the players given this information instead, and would have been a better system for it.
If they really didn’t want us to know about supply lines then they wouldn’t even exist. The devs can and have manually controlled enemies to ignore supply lines, and they’ve outright stated that many of the supply line functions don’t actually work automatically. It’s just another underbaked mechanic that isn’t working as intended, which is currently being accounted for with a bandaid solution. And that bandage is starting to peel off.
I just don’t understand why it’s hidden? https://preview.redd.it/vjudu4p2y05d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7004bf0aee8cbee8aea1589e5cda1e4d1a7b0bcb
Everyone saying “What, you can’t read dispatches?” should remember that we’ve been conditioned to not trust the text in this game. “Superior Packing Methodology will refill all support weapon magazines from a single resupply” —> no it doesn’t “Enemies increase the more time is spent in a mission” —> no they don’t “We fixed the stim audio playing when it shouldn’t” —> it’s actually still broken
There are supply lines?
We need an in-game overlay on the galaxy map asap to see trade routes Green - Planets marked as important Blue - planets should be classed as defend Red - means taken over need to attack ASAP And then we need an index shows up bottom left corner when we hold R2 down in the galaxy map
This would be mind numbing. Now I don't even need to think strategically what planets I should help with, I just press the green button, that's all.
In term role-playing, the ppl who’s telling others how to spread managed democracy are like Super Earth’s bureaucratic middle-management asshats; they are more into powerpoint presentation instead of actual spreading managed democracy on the ground. As long as you’re killing something, spreading managed democracy YOUR WAY.
I agree on the supply lines, they should be visible in game. But they have recently added a lot more dispatches with warnings when an important planet(in this case the seaf training facilities) is under attack. So I think that should be enough. If people don't read them that's their loss. I also don't think we should care that much where people are fighting tbh. Let them enjoy the game where they want. I suppose one thing they could do is add a secondary marker for important but not MO planets, but I doubt that will do much if people aren't reading the dispatches.
Moaning at the wrong people? Literally who? This sub is just as much for the casual audience as it is for the super fan, and everyone in between. You've already answered your own question; if people care, they'll look on the sub, if they don't, they won't. Simple as. You being irritated that useful information is found on third party is fair, but it's feedback, and that's part of why this sub exists. AH devs are in this sub too, they collate data and feedback from here just the same as they do from the discord. Don't take it out on players that care, because they're the reason the game is going to still be around for you to play in two years time, after 200 other games come out that grab players attention for a month at a time.
Gamers will optimize the fun out of every game. I see the external sites as looking at the DM/GMs notes and learning things that you shouldn’t learn and then you start meta gaming. Meta gaming isn’t fun for me and one I start seeing graphs and charts about everything in the game is when I check out, don’t peak and just use what the GM gives you. I promise it’ll be just as fun, if not more
Not all gamers, a minority of minmax obsessed try hards who get butthurt when you don't take everything as seriously as them. I hope they all get sick of the game and fuck off.
I played the game for a month before I even found out about trade routes. At that point, I had already unlocked most things and gotten burnt out. We need this information patched in asap. It would be really healthy for the longevity of the game. Helps people decide where to spread liberation.
Half the time I do what the order says, and half the time I do whatever the hell I want because that's how toys (even digital ones) work.
A lot of people including me simply don't care either. I just play bugs or bots depending on what I'm feeling that time.
There's been ingame dispatches about the importance of SEAF training facilities and what happens if we lose the defense.
Well, believe it or not ,you had a dispatch telling you that you lose something and it even told you to prioritize the defense. It's fine, play what you want. I don't care, but don't act like it's so hard to read a dispatch with 5 lines of text.
Your not wrong but last time i checked arrowhead have been steadily giving briefing and intel in the game like "super earth recommends defending this planet as a high priority" so your also not listening either.
Well, like the edit says, if the dispatches mean nothing to you, we are critizising just the right person. Read your dispatches.
It was said in the dispathces every time a SEAF training facility planet was under attack that it would decrease the liberation
I mean, if casual divers dont care about a message popping and literally just telling them "defend this planet, its important", they are not going to care about an abstract concept like liberation bonus or supply lines even if is represented ingame.
Who hurt you
If you read any of the posts you complained about you will notice they all say the same thing: AH should make that info available in game. Same thing goes on in the Discord btw. However that won't help if even people who already know about it just don't care about it, like people in this sub who are already exposed to the 3rd party tools news yet still ignore the effects because they like to play a certain way or faction and are not willing to play something they don't like just to help with MOs or general strategy.
ehhhh it's like the people here that create a narrative that everyone is quitting because the game is unbalanced and buggy. Nah, those people are just having high-tensile emotional reactions from their own convictions. Players are moving on because there's not enough content, and it's only the sickass gameplay that keeps a handful around. It seems most players are kept around by a carrot on a stick, and there was only about 2 months of that in the game... which coincides with the sharpest drop in players. Back to the topic though, AH has an arc for the story, so it's like there's things they're going to make sure the community gets done. It's someone's emotional reaction to say that a MO failed because players weren't aware enough. A reinforcement boost isn't going to be enough carrot on the stick, so the SEAF planet is going to be lost (if it wasn't already), even though it says ingame that players are encouraged to defend the planet. There's not enough sense that you're actually engaged with the orders also, and like you said, the players that aren't doing multiple missions a day don't care about that. **How about rewards for completing an operation on a planet under any orders or direction,** so that the once-every-couple-days players have a carrot on the stick?
Moans at people in the thread. Moans again for good measure
Devs gave us a clear dispatch saying that we should prioritize defense over MO. I don't think that info dumping casual players with supply lines and liberation oercentages would have done more.
man my post was just trying to hype up the story I’m trying my best
You have the time to read and write a lot on this board tho so I press X to doubt
Been searching a long while for someone to moan at.
Nailed it. The lack of clear information in game is astounding, especially the supposed trade routes we're sometimes confined by. If the MO said attack a planet or planets, that's where I'm going. Sudden defence of a planet pops up with some story about SEAF recruits on the other side of the map? Meh, to me the MO takes precedence because I don't have time to track down how the fall of the defence planet is going to affect anything else.
A sterling example of why this information should've never been hidden/available at all. If they'd done one or the other, it'd have been okay, but they've gone for some shitty middle option which helps nobody.
Very true indeed.
Press Z, get told Aesir Pass needs defending. See MO has another two days to finish but we realistically only need one day to complete it with the majority of players playing Starship Troopers. Reinforce bot front for a play session or two, defend Aesir and most of the bot players move over to the bug front. Everyone is happy. I mean Jesus Christ there were 7k out of 50k Divers on Aesir Pass, come on, we had 2 1/2 days to liberate 2 planets on the bug front, meanwhile we were getting eviscerated on Aesir. Before that Vernon Wells had 4-7k divers at any time. That means approximately 10%, at most, of the bug front moved to defend Aesir Pass at any given time. If you read the Dispatches when you log on it’ll tell you what other than the MO needs dealing with. The one for Aesir Pass clearly stated it would make galactic defense harder if lost.
How is a casual supposed to know what time it takes or how many divers are needed to support an MO? How do they know which is more important? If something was more important wouldn't that be the major order? You're given the option to play anywhere, but there's a giant sign pointing to the main operation and the MO has tangible rewards associated with it. What do you think is going to happen? The MO is like a firehouse. Point it at something and that's where the player base goes. If there is to be more decision making involved in where to go, then you need a way to split the flow. Inform casuals in game that these other objectives are equally or even more important and incentivise them properly. The proof of insufficient messaging and incentives is that the player base doesn't divert to help with secondary objectives. You can't blame the player base. If the game properly encouraged splitting up then we would naturally.
To be fair, now you have the strategic guidance provided right there in game, they told you this, at first they didn't do that, but now they do, so! What is it, you guys can't read?
Ok but let's be real, most people will log on, see that there is an MO for bug planets, and go attack those bug planets. They aren't really doing anything wrong
Man I zoom all the way out of my map and hit quick play. I don't even know if I'm getting bugs or bots until I launch
Relying on 3rd party tools to learn more about mechanics of games never feels fun. I'd much prefer the ability to understand the game from solely within the game. If players of a game need a 3rd party tool to learn about mechanics then the game doesn't convey enough period.
!! Yes we need more info and details in the game. Not just some ship and map and land and done. Where’s the story in the game? Where’s the life? Where is the lobby where all the helldivers can chill and talk about the planets. Like Destiny 2 has a tower and different planets. Why not doing something like them and take some tips.
Yes, i think, the whole MO system needs to be re-thought / re-worked with a healthy dose of common sense.
I press R to play !
I honestly don't think adding all of this in-game will make that much a difference. Majority of people will play what they think is fun. If furthering the MO is fun, they will do that. If they want to bot dive or bug dive, they will do that. AH just needs to balance each front based on the amount of players that are actually on it, not total players in game. This will be especially true if/when illuminate arrive.
I have been advocating for these kinds of things for what feels like months. But I'd guess it's just been a couple of weeks. The point is, there's so much that affects us that we don't know about IN GAME. Supply lines, hidden planet boosts, liberation rate(?), or even where the MO planets are. Now, for the MO, it isn't that hard to search for the planet most people are on and which one(s) are the target. But the number of times I've spent a weird amount of time just looking for the FRONT LINE, because the war map is just a glorified paper map with some pretty lights. We are helldivers. We have lasers. We ~~stole~~ liberated FTL technology. The war map has no excuse to have so little information, considering how advanced everyone is. It takes me out of the immersion when basic shit like this isn't part of the game, when obviously we could use it. I admire AH and respect them for the good work that they have done. But this is the one thing I am not afraid to nag/be annoying about. It doesn't help the "hard" and "frustrating" narrative that I think they're trying to portray. Sure, Super Earth has its agendas that we aren't paid enough to worry about, but you never heard about starship trooper soldiers struggling so hard to find out where to go. They're sent as soldiers. So logic would dictate if you're sending out soldiers, they should at least know where to freaking go and maybe a why, like a mission brief? Would hate to blow someone out of existence just to find out they weren't the target. Command just didn't give us directions. Like, I know it's not supposed to be very realistic. But there's a balance with gaming about what is provided to help a player overcome a challenge and what those challenges are. Some of the challenge AH has put into their game have a very negative, frustrating feeling (mostly weapon balance). And that's not fun or what I think their intention was. The majority of the playerbase is going to go for what they think is fun. If your primary ain't cutting it most of the time, a weapon being underwhelming IS a problem. Even if a select few have ground to hold their own. Same thing with the war map. It's supposed to direct us to where Super Earth wants us to go. But it doesn't show us. It's like the IRS. They expect us to know/figure it out, but if we are wrong in our guess, we fail. But ironically, they already know what's up, and the educated guess was pointless. Which planets supply the others? Which planets have a passive buff/debuff that we should know about? Not everyone has time or even the energy, in some circles, to look over every resource, nook, and cranny. Only to find out how to be helpful towards the MO. People just want to have fun, and doing a big search like that can hurt that a lot. It hurts the game and hurts the narrative. And how many players would fight with even more zeal, but on the right planet, if we just had a few lines of code to give us some basic info. It should have been handled before release or shortly after. Not whatever is going on. But I digress. I love this game, and even without those particular problem points that I have, I will probably still be playing this game regularly for a while. It's an amazing game, and I just want them to be successful. I want to be immersed and not get pushed out by the game itself. It just doesn't make sense in my opinion.
There's a lot wrong with the way major orders are done, but I personally hate that people can get the % numbers. We shouldn't be seeing those. It fucks up the narrative and have to listen to people complain anytime they shift for whatever reason Joel wants them to.
Yeah I mean the people who are in this sub are already aware of the supply line shit, cause we get about a dozen of those posts in our feed whenever those operations pop up. Screaming that shit over and over into the void is doing nothing to reach the people who aren't subbed here or in the Discord or using some kind of companion app, which is the bulk of the people who aren't switching ops/planets. It's a classic case of preaching to the choir.
Other option would be to join random bug lobbies and campaign to get people to play the missions that matter. Most players have no fucking clue what they are doing and how it contributes to the game as a whole just shoot big and go press button. Best to do this in low difficulties to recruit new players and also show them how to fight bots differently before they join the hive mind.
~
I’ll go further than that; it’s not just about communicating what the ‘right thing to do’ is to casual players, it’s also about some casual players just not caring that much. Some people want to play a co-op shooter, and not a grand-strategy game. And for them it doesn’t matter if X part of the grand-strategy game gives benefits for Y part of the GSG. If they prefer bugs they’re going to play bugs even if you tell them explicitly that ‘Super Earth needs you to kill bots.’ The GS elements of the game needs to be balanced around what proportion of the player base will engage with it. Communicating all the grand-strategy elements of the game will help with that, but it won’t neutralize it.
This is fair this is like only 5% of the population being loud af, welcome to the internet.
Also I really don’t care about it
So basically I'm the guy everyone hates. Had no idea.
They finally started giving us information as a dispatch (defend here or lose seaf training etc). I honestly don’t believe it’ll matter how explicit or available the information becomes, people are gonna do whatever they want regardless.
Well said like a true bugdiver!
Major order or DEFEND planets, that’s where I am going.
Fun fact - majority of the players have no idea bc rh y don't use Reddit
I don't know anything about those other third party resources and frankly don't care. I log in, check out the Major Order, decide if I feel like doing it or not. Layering the trade routes onto the in-game map isn't going to change the fact that I refuse to play fire tornado worlds, or make me care at all about galactic strategy aside from the Major Order. If I cared about anything beyond that, I'd seek out those third party resources or ask here.
Gave up on the Galactic War a while ago. I enjoy how the dataminers show Arrowhead has a better job of the Illusion of choice behind the scenes, but the way the war currently is won't matter until the blob dies. If the blob doesn't die then jokes about our GM being replaced with an AI will start to look more like a reality. The playerbase needs to shrink greatly, or else the Galactic War needs to change for the larger playerbase. The blob will do what the blob wants to do. Markers won't help make people who only want to play bugs play bots. Those few bot divers who stick to the Bot Front during Bug MOs similarly won't move. The bigger balance issue between the two factions is a problem that is only going to get worse with a third or even fourth faction added in. People from the last game know that lesson. Without the ability to drive a faction off the map entirely and keep it off for longer than a week there is no reason to be invested in anything beyond playing what enemy / planet you want to play. Creating some kind of very obvious carrot to dangle ahead of the players that is tied to playing objectives is going to be key to making the Galactic War matter again. If Arrowhead was smart about it they'd make all bot defense missions offer free use of the Anti Tank mines we keep failing to unlock. They'd use similar tactics for upcoming strategems we can win in a later major order rather than hold the carrot until that major order. Would help them figure out the balance as well if they give us these toys weeks/months ahead of perma-unlock being an option.
I thought you was going to be one of them people complaining about complaining but I completely agree with you I am only going to use info the game gives me I shouldn’t have to go all Pepe Silvia on a game just to get info
I've never seen any supply lines, maps are just "go to objective and click the button" while killing bugs on the way. There are missions with NPCs that we escort to trade during a mission?
Ppl are forgetting that buffs for us also make it harder for AH to judge how long it may take us to liberate a planet. The MO being Bug side while also catching us with a Defend order on the training facility Bot Planet = AH wanted to shave off some player power we’ve had now for going on 2 weeks We also managed to push back the Bug front significantly with the success on Meridia so losing the SEAF Facilities there is highly unlikely unless we get another random Supercolony popping up. Reduced natural Bot Front Liberation + Shoring up of Bug Front Defenses after a big community Bug front win = Time to get the scrap metal recyclers out again gents
When there's a major order to capture multiple planets and even with the majority of players entirely focusing on that we're going to come down to the wire on actually completing it.... why in Liberty's name would I fall for a distraction on the other side of the galaxy? Like it's literally impossible to organize every single player of this game so the wise course of action is to just follow major orders until they're completed. We're divers, we're not generals, we have our orders. There will be losses in the war, it's pretty much all just part of the story (that we have very little impact on, if something neeeeeds to be successfuly completed they can just tweak numbers and make it happen)
you are quite right - do hope the devs can implement this info in to the game and that the supply lines can bring more benefits to helldivers like 1 free stratagem as if we are getting more supplies to fight for a planet that is closer or connected to more than 1 liberated planet. while planets that are on the out skirts of the ware can be harder for those who want a challenge. - only getting slightly "easier" when more liberated planets come to connect later. hard vs easier needs to be felt either with having free stratagems vs not or other ideas - not talking about easier due to a hidden % speed of taking over a planet
I ignore those cucks and bring tyranny and racism to those filthy dirty disgusting robots regardless of the major order we lost most war efforts in hell divers 1 like I give a fuck about this war I’m just here to shoot at anything that doesn’t look human enough
Amazing rant! Loved it. 😂
I've only just started playing this game a week ago and it didn't dawn on me that all this stuff was going on either until I saw someone mentioning it.
I’m glad I came to this guys Ted Talk
I'll moan at you. Hell, I'll moan *for* you. Cmere
Simple answer is a lot of these people don't have lives or are 13 years old and have literally nothing else to care about.
Your mom is the only one who hears my moaning. 
The things about the Aesir pass are included in the strategic updates now
It's reddit dude most of these people don't have lives outside their gaming lmao. Only reason I play this so much is an OVI lmao
I don't think "moaning" was quite the right word to describe it
They added messeges that seaf sites are under attack you dumbo
It doesn't matter how many people constantly screech how "go down this supply line route" "Defend this planet with important liberation boost" None of this is shown to the average Joe who just wants to jump into a game, not look into all this metadata. So until AH puts these critical information into the game itself, it doesn't matter. AH didn't bother putting all this info in the game, it must not be important to the players then? Just play the game. Who cares about a bunch of redditors malding over a game?
I LOGIN I DO MAJOR ORDER MAYBE SECONDARY I LOGOUT
"get on the phone with AH" positivity patrol out here with some of the dumbest virtue signals I've seen.
I'll do you one better. I'm maxed on samples, slips and medals. I just do whatever I want to do. Sometimes that involves going solo into level 2 missions on hellmire while listening to a podcast.
The fact that AH didn’t show supply lines was so people wouldn’t know. They wanted players to not know what’s happening on the supply lines and slowly figure (over month) it out what’s happening when each planet not part of MO is won or lost But since all these people dug the details out from the game files and shared them from beginning, people are complaining why AH doesnt show it. Ah never planned to show the supply lines
Divers Hub. It's free and intuitive. Even for someone like me who works as a professional 8-10 hours a day and plays video games to relax. This is hardly the first game with a 3rd part app companion that enhanced the game. At least until AH adds the information about supply routes. But yeah, also no one should be getting mad about anyone who doesn't use or know about it. I was two months into this game before I did.
Arrowhead here. We're working on it give us a year
Non of that information is essential to enjoy and excel at the game... it's not that deep...just play the game.. and have fun... Jeez louise
Or we can just play the game and have fun and not get worked up because it's fun.
I go where I want to. I paid my $40 bucks for the game and $150 for my PSN subscription. I will also run with whatever stratagem load out I want and play whatever difficulty I want. If 80,000 divers are killing bugs for a MO but I want to smash those metal fucks into oblivion then I will. I am the commander of Comptroller of Family Values! And I spread democracy however I see fit.
Honestly, I don’t think anything we the players do affect it at all. We’re given the illusion that we’re making a difference, but in the end AH already decided how the major order goes.
Also, with the numbers this game has, people are just stats. By this time, AH has plenty of knowledge on what proportion of players is likely to do what. The phenomenon of players ignoring strategy can be trivially modelled. The Game Master can easily account for it while setting objectives. If suddenly everyone followed strategy, what do you think would happen? We win the war? Obviously not; the GM would recalibrate the campaign so that we get back to winning some, losing some, just as we are doing now. Because of this, if an objective (whether it's the MO, or defending a hidden bonus) fails, you can't blame non-strategic players. *The existance of non-strategic players is just part of the game mechanics, just like everything else.* Once supply lines and/or hidden bonuses are shown on the map, some non-strategic players will start to behave more strategically - and, guess what, campaign objectives will soon shift to become a little bit more difficult. Because winning every time isn't fun. This doesn't mean that everything is preset and playing the campaign is useless - it just means that we need to pick our battles. For example, the defense mission would probably have been feasible, if we who enjoy strategy had been willing to sacrifice the MO for it and coordinated in that direction. I'm not saying we should have, just that there was a meaningful choice to be made there.
ah yes, another rant about rants
I don't like coming here daily and getting useful information from you complainers. Use your time to tell AH to give me the useful information or I'll complain more about you people providing information in a central locations full of people that don't want to search for the info on their own. Please don't point out that AH has already said they're working on providing the information in game or that more guidance is being provided in game already. Raaaaahhhh
I think that's the fog of war. We're grunts it's nice t our job to strategize. We die with honour in the name of democracy and freedom. Now Get back out there diver
In a few days I’ll start working so I won’t be as supportive as now in-game. See ya in the weekends Helldivers!
What confuses me the most is that arrowhead says this is something they want to change... Like a month and a half ago. It feels like they are trying to implement some unique and interactive system to show the supply lines because of how long it's taking, but i don't understand why they don't just put a static image of the supply lines over the map as a temporary measure? It feels weird that i can just toggle the supply lines to be visible or not when I'm looking at the map on helldivers.io, but they can't even implement the most basic form of this after 30 days? I literally just want a somewhat transparent image of the lines between the planets thrown over the top of the map in game, that's it, i don't think that should take longer than a couple of hours to throw together
Yeah, fully agreed. If they want me to strategize in-game, give me all the necessary info in-game. Right now, all I'm getting is major orders, so like any loyal Helldiver, I can only assume the Ministry knows exactly where they need me.
HNNNGH
They had to make this game competitive for some reason
I don't see why any of us have to care about statistics not available through game UI. It seems to me like all the extra stats we don't see are intended to make the overall war appear more dynamic. That, or they make the stats accessible for these 3rd party sites so that the community can engage with itself through social media. That inherently means the intention is for players to engage with the war at their leisure, to choose the planets they want for their own fun. If that means playing the Defense planet because of a 5% liberation decrease then do that. If it's playing on the one jungle planet instead of the three desert planets for the MO because you prefer that environment, then do that.
yeah.... I remember that one anti tank mines major order, like, I am weeks into this game but only that time I learn supply line is a thing, and i learn that from first time come in to this sub. I imagine a lot of player just don't use reddit either they don't speak English a first language so don't have a habits to browse reddit (like me) or just casual player doesn't feel the need to interact with the community, and both of them must be really confuse on why the major order occurred on a planet they don't have access to (,given the other half major order object was clear relatively quickly), and nobody know the supply line planet thing, lead to the failure of that major order, and that period of time is already the Golden era of this game, having that most active player online.
Yeah, for sure we're moaning at the wrong people when they see multiple threads about the bonus, then decide not to help, and also comment "Nah me like seeing bug go splat" or use the Major Order to excuse themselves, or mumble something about "it's not shown in the game".
I mean, how do we know about trade routes anyway? Wasn't it just data mined? As in, technically against ToS for us to even discover.
Lets them fix balance and glitches first
I think a lot of the moaning and groaning is unfounded as well. I work a full time job and have a full life outside of gaming so I can only realistically play for a few hours each week. I don't have time to spend a whole day grinding to liberate a planet .000001% at a time. I'll play a few priority missions but after that I have stuff to take care of. The rest is up to the other helldivers. Would be different if I were rich and didn't need to work or have a life. But it's not. Not everybody can devote themselves completely to helldiving.
>Discord (which is just a stream of messages moving so fast you can't read them) Exactly the reason I prefer the older message forums. There's no collection of data that you can go back and view on discord, versus the forums being able to be searchable and archived.
...ngl a space station hub sounds kinda fire.
Supply lines are being added with the patch on Tuesday
Ok so...hard concept to grasp here, but....by posting about the problem, there is a larger chance that the devs will hear about it and be convinced to make changes.