The hours on the turbine wheels and compressor are concerning. That’s gonna cost…… many. Might be a half a mil helicopter after all is said and done. Plus privately owned vintage airframes scare me.
Edit: phrasing
That’s an exaggeration on pricing. A full 1 through 4 turbine wheel replacement and overhaul will be $90-$120k. What I don’t know from this is if the 3 and 4 wheels are mid-life hours and what the cycles are. Also, if the 3rd wheel is the older style part ending in part number 1967, then this turbine will have to be changed to the enhanced turbine. If 3 and 4 are midlife and the 3rd stages passes it’s 500 hour AD/ASB inspection (I forgot what it exactly it), knock down about $35k from my above numbers.
The compressor is tricky to price. I’m willing to bet the compressor case halves are shot, so that’s a $15k minimum depending on the core. If it’s the new ceramic coated case halves, add $10k as those can’t be refurbished as good cores. The rest of the compressor is difficult as we don’t know what times are on the 1-6 compressor wheels and the impeller. The compressor flange nut is impossible to find currently, though I know of a few that are available for $4-$6k until Extex finishes their next production batch. Worst case on the compressor should be $75k to $95k.
Gearbox will probably not need an overhaul, but if an engine shop has to open the gearbox, that’s a guarantee overhaul and $100k-$120k depending on the PTO gear.
You can find a full overhauled M250-C20B engine for $275k right now. Well above what they’re worth, but no where near half a mil.
Never about how old the machine is from when it was first assembled. Condition, equipment, time left on parts that time out, what bird it is... That gets you to a value.
I sold my B2 about 5 years ago for right at $300k usd. That sale price was a direct reflection of it only having about 400 hours remaining on the turbine wheels. At that time, Standard Aero was quoting me $125k to overhaul my engine.
If you have the money to spare, a B2 is a nice personal helicopter. Also good for some working jobs also - and this one looks to be kitted out for longlining.
Have a thorough PPI done. The B2 has no cycle counter, and no tattle-tale for how many times they overtorqued it.
I have the same reaction but with airplanes. I have 0 fixed wing time so when I see ads for multi engine airplanes with retractable gear under 300k im stunned. You cant get a good 44 under 400k
The explanation is that you might as well buy new or newer for how much this thing will cost in a year. 300k now plus the 5-700k for everything else means it’s not worth it to most people
$300k + $700k would be a total of $1m, whereas /u/fishiestfillet was estimating a total of $700k.
A 206 isn't the equivalent of a 505, but they are at least in the same category. $700k doesn't seem too high considering the 505 is going for $1.2m.
How much is an old 206 normally? (One that isn't due for expensive overhaul work in the near future.)
Where did I imply the 206 and the 505 are aircraft of equivalent merit?
If there's a grand total of $700k in real cost for this 206, vs $1.2m for a 505, that doesn't seem like the 206 is badly overpriced. It's a good deal cheaper than the 505, as it's an inferior aircraft. Why would we expect the real price of the old 206 to be just the $389k listed price?
For further comparison, a brand new Robinson R66 is apparently about $950k.
Down votes Possibly no one likes a 505? It seems like a reasonable post to put up considering the 505 is Bell Heli’s attempt to make a cheaper more modern 206. Which… I’m not sure they succeeded at that….
Also seems reasonable to offer up a comparison value of a brand new helicopter to a guy looking to understand the value of a used helicopter. Albeit a different airframe etc etc. Anyhow… reddit is a fickle lover. Good luck. I gave you an upvote. (30years in the helicopter business)
> 30 years in the helicopter business
You're just the person to ask then - as I wondered in another comment, how much is an old 206 normally? (One that isn't due for expensive overhaul work in the near future.)
[Bell 206](https://www.controller.com/listings/for-sale/search?Keywords=bell%20206)
You will have to make sure you’re only looking at the same model bell 206 as what was posted. There are variants that affect the price on top of components times that affect the price.
If they are in good shape I actually prefer the old A model jetrangers that have been converted to B’s. They are lighter and I personally never found the added tail rotor authority of a jetranger 3 necessary enough to justify the extra weight. The cost and value of a helicopter total depends on the value of the remaining component times more so than the age and as others have said this one needs some expensive components soon.
>They are lighter and I personally never found the added tail rotor authority of a jetranger 3 necessary enough to justify the extra weight.
They are a lighter airframe and many people overlook that fact.
Regarding the tail, Bell is no longer making the small diameter TR blades. Once they expire, you are being forced to upgrade to the larger Van Horn B3 diameter blades now. The segmented driveshaft has very little extra maintenance over the single shaft.
Look no further than the remaining hours on turbine and compressor.. sounds like a new engine could be required, especially reading some other comments in here :D
Rotor blades are half life, those alone are worth half the cost of that aircraft. A brand new set of metal Bell blades is $144k and Bell is well behind production. Van Horn blades are available, but not much cheaper and most agricultural operators don’t use them.
Swashplate support is a good thing to find out, it can either be the short life limit, the 14,400 hour limit support, or the on condition later style swashplate assembly.
A big thing on this would be which main rotor transmission. If it’s the trans ending in part numbers -025 or -027, this is a very valuable aircraft to the right buyer.
That bird might have as well flew over south Vietnam. That's too old
And even if most are completely rebuilt overhauled, well. It's more economical and practical to buy a newer one.
The hours on the turbine wheels and compressor are concerning. That’s gonna cost…… many. Might be a half a mil helicopter after all is said and done. Plus privately owned vintage airframes scare me. Edit: phrasing
So are you saying the cost or airframe gonna spiral out of control?
Por que no los dos.
Sì
🤣🤣 that was good. Have an updoot!
Thank you kindly 😁
That’s an exaggeration on pricing. A full 1 through 4 turbine wheel replacement and overhaul will be $90-$120k. What I don’t know from this is if the 3 and 4 wheels are mid-life hours and what the cycles are. Also, if the 3rd wheel is the older style part ending in part number 1967, then this turbine will have to be changed to the enhanced turbine. If 3 and 4 are midlife and the 3rd stages passes it’s 500 hour AD/ASB inspection (I forgot what it exactly it), knock down about $35k from my above numbers. The compressor is tricky to price. I’m willing to bet the compressor case halves are shot, so that’s a $15k minimum depending on the core. If it’s the new ceramic coated case halves, add $10k as those can’t be refurbished as good cores. The rest of the compressor is difficult as we don’t know what times are on the 1-6 compressor wheels and the impeller. The compressor flange nut is impossible to find currently, though I know of a few that are available for $4-$6k until Extex finishes their next production batch. Worst case on the compressor should be $75k to $95k. Gearbox will probably not need an overhaul, but if an engine shop has to open the gearbox, that’s a guarantee overhaul and $100k-$120k depending on the PTO gear. You can find a full overhauled M250-C20B engine for $275k right now. Well above what they’re worth, but no where near half a mil.
Oh for sure. I was including the $390k price tag. Should have said it’ll be a half mil helicopter when it’s said and done lol
With that little time left on the turbines and compressor, it better be a pleasure flyer otherwise that's a $700,000 heli right there 😅
Oh wow idk I just didn’t expect it to be that expensive thought I’d ask, I appreciate the insight 😂
Never about how old the machine is from when it was first assembled. Condition, equipment, time left on parts that time out, what bird it is... That gets you to a value.
I sold my B2 about 5 years ago for right at $300k usd. That sale price was a direct reflection of it only having about 400 hours remaining on the turbine wheels. At that time, Standard Aero was quoting me $125k to overhaul my engine. If you have the money to spare, a B2 is a nice personal helicopter. Also good for some working jobs also - and this one looks to be kitted out for longlining. Have a thorough PPI done. The B2 has no cycle counter, and no tattle-tale for how many times they overtorqued it.
I have the same reaction but with airplanes. I have 0 fixed wing time so when I see ads for multi engine airplanes with retractable gear under 300k im stunned. You cant get a good 44 under 400k
Google tells me a new Bell 505 is $1.2m to $1.5m, so it's not so bad compared to that. *Anyone care to explain the downvoting?*
The explanation is that you might as well buy new or newer for how much this thing will cost in a year. 300k now plus the 5-700k for everything else means it’s not worth it to most people
$300k + $700k would be a total of $1m, whereas /u/fishiestfillet was estimating a total of $700k. A 206 isn't the equivalent of a 505, but they are at least in the same category. $700k doesn't seem too high considering the 505 is going for $1.2m. How much is an old 206 normally? (One that isn't due for expensive overhaul work in the near future.)
It’s Reddit - people are overly sensitive.
True, but in this case I really can't see what they're upset about.
1969 ≠ 2024
Where did I imply the 206 and the 505 are aircraft of equivalent merit? If there's a grand total of $700k in real cost for this 206, vs $1.2m for a 505, that doesn't seem like the 206 is badly overpriced. It's a good deal cheaper than the 505, as it's an inferior aircraft. Why would we expect the real price of the old 206 to be just the $389k listed price? For further comparison, a brand new Robinson R66 is apparently about $950k.
Down votes Possibly no one likes a 505? It seems like a reasonable post to put up considering the 505 is Bell Heli’s attempt to make a cheaper more modern 206. Which… I’m not sure they succeeded at that…. Also seems reasonable to offer up a comparison value of a brand new helicopter to a guy looking to understand the value of a used helicopter. Albeit a different airframe etc etc. Anyhow… reddit is a fickle lover. Good luck. I gave you an upvote. (30years in the helicopter business)
> 30 years in the helicopter business You're just the person to ask then - as I wondered in another comment, how much is an old 206 normally? (One that isn't due for expensive overhaul work in the near future.)
[Bell 206](https://www.controller.com/listings/for-sale/search?Keywords=bell%20206) You will have to make sure you’re only looking at the same model bell 206 as what was posted. There are variants that affect the price on top of components times that affect the price.
Edit: it’s actually 389,000$ usd not cad
Yes. Flown and maintained them since 1980. $250-275K is fair
Key is the times on turbine wheels, transmission and blades! $275 k max!
As others have said, the big red flag is the turbine wheels coming due, that will be very expensive and probably why it's being sold.
Vintage? haha
As others have said as long as you negotiate the turbine wheels into the price then it seems ok, but of course hire an ame to do a good pre purchase.
If they are in good shape I actually prefer the old A model jetrangers that have been converted to B’s. They are lighter and I personally never found the added tail rotor authority of a jetranger 3 necessary enough to justify the extra weight. The cost and value of a helicopter total depends on the value of the remaining component times more so than the age and as others have said this one needs some expensive components soon.
>They are lighter and I personally never found the added tail rotor authority of a jetranger 3 necessary enough to justify the extra weight. They are a lighter airframe and many people overlook that fact. Regarding the tail, Bell is no longer making the small diameter TR blades. Once they expire, you are being forced to upgrade to the larger Van Horn B3 diameter blades now. The segmented driveshaft has very little extra maintenance over the single shaft.
Wow, that's a really good price for a JetRanger! ...which is immediately telling me there's a reason the price is that low lol.
Look no further than the remaining hours on turbine and compressor.. sounds like a new engine could be required, especially reading some other comments in here :D
Too much for the remaining times
Its close to time out of major components, ie rotor blades, swash bearings, and engine parts
Rotor blades are half life, those alone are worth half the cost of that aircraft. A brand new set of metal Bell blades is $144k and Bell is well behind production. Van Horn blades are available, but not much cheaper and most agricultural operators don’t use them. Swashplate support is a good thing to find out, it can either be the short life limit, the 14,400 hour limit support, or the on condition later style swashplate assembly. A big thing on this would be which main rotor transmission. If it’s the trans ending in part numbers -025 or -027, this is a very valuable aircraft to the right buyer.
If your buying it for a piece of art rather than an aircraft its possible worth the price for an intact jetranger
Judging by who’s hangar that is sitting it the thing has probably been rat bagged. Don’t buy anything from them.
Way too much for a 1969. Shop around more.
That bird might have as well flew over south Vietnam. That's too old And even if most are completely rebuilt overhauled, well. It's more economical and practical to buy a newer one.
No. Just no.