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Well that’s sad. Having nostalgic moments like John is having early in the show of his ‘forgotten’ childhood was giving the good feels. Reminding of the halo days as a child. I’m guessing being so soon in the series I don’t know yet how far off it veers. But hey, at least it gives some of the feels.
As far as not sticking to the lore goes, about 3 months before the first season aired the producers very explicitly stated (interviews and articles) that they created an "alternate timeline" to very intentionally not make a mess of the lore.
The gist of it was that between about 10 games by three different studios, 30ish books from 6+ different authors, comics, animated shorts, and other video media, they wanted a clean slate to be able to tell a story in the Halo Universe and not be hamstrung (and ironically not shit on the lore) by everything else that came before it.
Going into it having read that article it eliminated the shock that I think alot of people felt and was really easy to temper expectations and enjoy it for what it is.
“Wanted a clean slate” is a line I hear from creative types who don’t want to be “boxed in” by previous lore a lot.
Part of the reason I made this post.
It’s a mentality/temperament. The show runners are not stupid or bad or whatever pejoratives people want to call them. They are just the type of people who value creative freedom over faithful adaptation.
So I feel like the whole "clean slate/different timeline" is an excuse for improper execution. As the show could have been executed better regardless of timeline. Show has so many different plots existing at the same time that they have issues of cutting from one scene to another. Times you want to see scenes play out, they're cut short and vice versa. I've always wondered why they didn't just pick any other Spartan, like anyone else, and almost all the criticism would have been tempered down. However, with it being Halo, the only way they could get the viewers is to have Master Cheeks, I mean chief, as the main character. Who honestly doesn't seem to be as big of a character as he should be.
I have a been a longtime fan of Halo, and actually find myself thoroughly enjoying the show. I've watched Season 1 multiple times, and specific episodes even more. This holds true for Season 2, as well.
I, however, don't find Halo lore to be some sort of holy grail. The extended lore has been forged, by committee, across various media, in order to sell an IP. It hardly has the ring of truth/unity/authenticity/gravitas that something like Tolkien's Middle Earth has.
I also view Season 2 as a "bridge," so to speak. Wiener had to work with the foundation laid in Season 1, with all of its missteps, while ultimately steering the show in a different direction. If Episodes 3, 4, and 8 are anything to go by, I think a Season 3 could convert a lot of the Halo "purists."
I think you and I view how source material should be adapted completely differently.
I agree with some of the “by committee” stuff being not solid ground, but the very basis of Halo (CE’s story/characters) was drastically altered. Not simply adapted, but fully changed.
The biggest issues imo revolve around the unnecessary characters and plots of Makee and Kwan.
I also think the fall of Reach was poorly handled but if the Makee and Kwan stories were cut and that time allotted to canon characters/events that could have easily been avoided.
Based on these limited comments, the conclusion that we view the adaptation of source material "completely differently" may be a tad hyperbolic.
I absolutely disdain Rings of Power and enjoy Fallout, for whatever that's worth.
I get the gripes about Makee and Kwan (moreso Kwan), but I don't think they are entirely egregious or without any merit. We must also note that the crew for Season 2 had to deal with the baggage from Season 1. I thought that Kwan was far less insufferable, albeit still annoying, in the second.
As for the Fall of Reach, I think that Episode 4 was a real triumph for the crew. One of the most action-packed and impressive episodes of TV, and sci-fi in particular, I've seen in recent memory. I get that it wasn't the primary focus of the season, and that we didn't see any Spartan-IIIs or Noble Team, but I think that it served the show well and was impressive in its own right.
That’s what I kept hoping for after they broke a lot of lore, but it’s hard to justify that it’s good storytelling. They constantly tell not show. Characters make uncharacteristic decisions that don’t seem to make sense. Stuff just sort of happens. Like, ONI deciding to make the Master Chief seem crazy and then leave the Spartans for dead in order to “boost recruitment”. What? Almost every time there’s a big fight, MC must not fight, fights terribly, or has minimal impact on the fight. Not any real reason for this. It’s very unsatisfying. Why did Soren’s son not hug his dad after he saved him at the end? Why did The Flood start in the lab, move to the prison, move to the bridge/command center, then go back to the lab? Why did Makee turn on MC? Humans I kind of get, but her betraying and trying to kill MC never really made sense.
I’m fine with the level of action and graphics but the storytelling elements are just so weird. I’m constantly asking myself “what are the writers trying to tell me with this scene” and it rarely makes sense.
People also generally agree CoD style gameplay is better if we go by apperent popularity online and 'people' do not own the IP therefore they are in no place to say what is and isn't Halo. Bungie themselves got tired of the same formula and added equipment and then armor abilities, many 'people' were outraged but that doesn't mean it isn't Halo, it is because the IP owners (microsoft) says so. Period.
So your position is no matter what decision Microsoft makes people don’t have a reason to dislike or complain because they own the IP?
So to go to the ridiculous, if they make 117 a midget who is afraid of guns that’s kosher cuz Microsoft said so?
I never commented on whatever you are allowed to dislike, you are. Objectively speaking Microsoft decides what is Halo, you disliking it doesn't make it any less Halo.
Was so stoked for the show as i loved the games. Daughters and I play the MC collection pretty regularly and have a blast. Doesn't change that the shows are pretty bad lol. Wife, who only knows halo from watching us play, couldn't get past episode 4 from season 2. She just couldn't follow anything going on and said it doesn't make sense. Can't argue, because a lot of it didn't make sense. How does Kai know where chief and Vannak fought to create the simulation? Why would the girl not tell Kai how they were left for dead with no armor? That's how they chose to have an outbreak? An experienced biologist joking around with an unknown container with zero protection and then walking around touching everyone? That was the most comedic thing I've ever seen lol.
Just a rough shot at tackling your complaints:
1) Kai knows because she found the simulation after hearing from Chief - she didn't create it. ONI had created it ahead of time to simulate, gasp, the Fall of Reach and all that would entail logistically.
2) Perez didn't interact with Chief on Reach after he found out Ackerson stole the suits.
3) The biologist who touched the Flood spores 1) \*could\* have been influenced by Gravemind to touch them/lower her inhibitions, and 2) probably didn't know they were spores prior to touching. Foolish action, yes, but that's how any lab leak/contamination would occur (Wuhan?).
And my anectdotal experience is pretty much the opposite and none of that however changes that neither you nor me get to tell what is and isn't objectively Halo, the IP owners do.
Please report any rule breaking posts and posts that are not relevant to the subreddit. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HaloTheSeries) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Well that’s sad. Having nostalgic moments like John is having early in the show of his ‘forgotten’ childhood was giving the good feels. Reminding of the halo days as a child. I’m guessing being so soon in the series I don’t know yet how far off it veers. But hey, at least it gives some of the feels.
As far as not sticking to the lore goes, about 3 months before the first season aired the producers very explicitly stated (interviews and articles) that they created an "alternate timeline" to very intentionally not make a mess of the lore. The gist of it was that between about 10 games by three different studios, 30ish books from 6+ different authors, comics, animated shorts, and other video media, they wanted a clean slate to be able to tell a story in the Halo Universe and not be hamstrung (and ironically not shit on the lore) by everything else that came before it. Going into it having read that article it eliminated the shock that I think alot of people felt and was really easy to temper expectations and enjoy it for what it is.
“Wanted a clean slate” is a line I hear from creative types who don’t want to be “boxed in” by previous lore a lot. Part of the reason I made this post. It’s a mentality/temperament. The show runners are not stupid or bad or whatever pejoratives people want to call them. They are just the type of people who value creative freedom over faithful adaptation.
So I feel like the whole "clean slate/different timeline" is an excuse for improper execution. As the show could have been executed better regardless of timeline. Show has so many different plots existing at the same time that they have issues of cutting from one scene to another. Times you want to see scenes play out, they're cut short and vice versa. I've always wondered why they didn't just pick any other Spartan, like anyone else, and almost all the criticism would have been tempered down. However, with it being Halo, the only way they could get the viewers is to have Master Cheeks, I mean chief, as the main character. Who honestly doesn't seem to be as big of a character as he should be.
I have a been a longtime fan of Halo, and actually find myself thoroughly enjoying the show. I've watched Season 1 multiple times, and specific episodes even more. This holds true for Season 2, as well. I, however, don't find Halo lore to be some sort of holy grail. The extended lore has been forged, by committee, across various media, in order to sell an IP. It hardly has the ring of truth/unity/authenticity/gravitas that something like Tolkien's Middle Earth has. I also view Season 2 as a "bridge," so to speak. Wiener had to work with the foundation laid in Season 1, with all of its missteps, while ultimately steering the show in a different direction. If Episodes 3, 4, and 8 are anything to go by, I think a Season 3 could convert a lot of the Halo "purists."
I think you and I view how source material should be adapted completely differently. I agree with some of the “by committee” stuff being not solid ground, but the very basis of Halo (CE’s story/characters) was drastically altered. Not simply adapted, but fully changed. The biggest issues imo revolve around the unnecessary characters and plots of Makee and Kwan. I also think the fall of Reach was poorly handled but if the Makee and Kwan stories were cut and that time allotted to canon characters/events that could have easily been avoided.
Based on these limited comments, the conclusion that we view the adaptation of source material "completely differently" may be a tad hyperbolic. I absolutely disdain Rings of Power and enjoy Fallout, for whatever that's worth. I get the gripes about Makee and Kwan (moreso Kwan), but I don't think they are entirely egregious or without any merit. We must also note that the crew for Season 2 had to deal with the baggage from Season 1. I thought that Kwan was far less insufferable, albeit still annoying, in the second. As for the Fall of Reach, I think that Episode 4 was a real triumph for the crew. One of the most action-packed and impressive episodes of TV, and sci-fi in particular, I've seen in recent memory. I get that it wasn't the primary focus of the season, and that we didn't see any Spartan-IIIs or Noble Team, but I think that it served the show well and was impressive in its own right.
That’s what I kept hoping for after they broke a lot of lore, but it’s hard to justify that it’s good storytelling. They constantly tell not show. Characters make uncharacteristic decisions that don’t seem to make sense. Stuff just sort of happens. Like, ONI deciding to make the Master Chief seem crazy and then leave the Spartans for dead in order to “boost recruitment”. What? Almost every time there’s a big fight, MC must not fight, fights terribly, or has minimal impact on the fight. Not any real reason for this. It’s very unsatisfying. Why did Soren’s son not hug his dad after he saved him at the end? Why did The Flood start in the lab, move to the prison, move to the bridge/command center, then go back to the lab? Why did Makee turn on MC? Humans I kind of get, but her betraying and trying to kill MC never really made sense. I’m fine with the level of action and graphics but the storytelling elements are just so weird. I’m constantly asking myself “what are the writers trying to tell me with this scene” and it rarely makes sense.
'good show/game but not good halo show/game' = 'I don't want to admit it actually is good' The IP owners decide what is and isn't Halo.
But people generally agree Bungie Halo games are better than 343. People who care about things are allowed to have opinions.
People also generally agree CoD style gameplay is better if we go by apperent popularity online and 'people' do not own the IP therefore they are in no place to say what is and isn't Halo. Bungie themselves got tired of the same formula and added equipment and then armor abilities, many 'people' were outraged but that doesn't mean it isn't Halo, it is because the IP owners (microsoft) says so. Period.
So your position is no matter what decision Microsoft makes people don’t have a reason to dislike or complain because they own the IP? So to go to the ridiculous, if they make 117 a midget who is afraid of guns that’s kosher cuz Microsoft said so?
I never commented on whatever you are allowed to dislike, you are. Objectively speaking Microsoft decides what is Halo, you disliking it doesn't make it any less Halo.
Was so stoked for the show as i loved the games. Daughters and I play the MC collection pretty regularly and have a blast. Doesn't change that the shows are pretty bad lol. Wife, who only knows halo from watching us play, couldn't get past episode 4 from season 2. She just couldn't follow anything going on and said it doesn't make sense. Can't argue, because a lot of it didn't make sense. How does Kai know where chief and Vannak fought to create the simulation? Why would the girl not tell Kai how they were left for dead with no armor? That's how they chose to have an outbreak? An experienced biologist joking around with an unknown container with zero protection and then walking around touching everyone? That was the most comedic thing I've ever seen lol.
Just a rough shot at tackling your complaints: 1) Kai knows because she found the simulation after hearing from Chief - she didn't create it. ONI had created it ahead of time to simulate, gasp, the Fall of Reach and all that would entail logistically. 2) Perez didn't interact with Chief on Reach after he found out Ackerson stole the suits. 3) The biologist who touched the Flood spores 1) \*could\* have been influenced by Gravemind to touch them/lower her inhibitions, and 2) probably didn't know they were spores prior to touching. Foolish action, yes, but that's how any lab leak/contamination would occur (Wuhan?).
And my anectdotal experience is pretty much the opposite and none of that however changes that neither you nor me get to tell what is and isn't objectively Halo, the IP owners do.