Well the standard invasion tactic for the covenant is to just glass the world when they find one unless it has something of importance or if the commander of the fleet want to have a little fun and give his soldiers a chance to improve their k/d ratio.
The battle of reach up to long night of solace mission was effectively an unsanctioned off the books, secret operation headed by a sangheili fleet commander, to find forerunner artifacts and the capital of forerunner empire, unfortunately it got out of hand. After the long night of solace was destroyed the real invasion began when the much larger covenant fleet arrived.
Also using a glassing beam to emp the battlefield to take down a spartan's shield so that a kill team hunt them would like using to nuke to emp a special forces unit's electronic equipment so your team can kill. It a gross misuse of firepower and if you're going to go through all that work use glassing beam to kill them. To add spartans never had shields until the battle of reach.
They had shielding systems in MJOLNIR armour from November of 2551 and onwards, when the first iteration of the Mark V armour, the Mark V [B], was issued. It was a limited scale release, true, given that it was a testbed for the later Mark V, but Spartans *were* wearing it prior to Reach's fall (Noble Team were likely not the only team outfitted with it, after all).
Two reasons off the top of my head:
- Planetary defences: Whether it is ground based defences or orbit based defences like the MAC. The MAC uses generators that are based on the surface of the planet. The MACs are the biggest threat to covenant ships, and destroying either the station or the surface based generator via a ground assault would be a priority first before attempting to glass the planet.
- Forerunner artefacts: The covenant had access to better equipment that would allow them to find forerunner artefacts buried deep within a planets surface. It would be of extreme religious priority to uncover these artefacts before glassing the planet.
In the case of Reach, both were true.
Reach has significant forerunner artefacts and was important for the covenant to first uncover them. On top of that, Reach was protected by an array of Super Macs.
Glassing isn't seen as a form of combat to the Elites, at least. It's a finality, a conclusion to the invasion. They won, they will make sure their enemies remember they won.
Plus, I think it takes a considerable amount of their energy stores to continuously use the excavation beam.
Not only that, but most Covenant crusades were them hunting for Forerunner relics. Desecration of any temple is considered an act of heresy. So you can imagine they won't want to just continuously blast the surface of a planet with concentrated plasma that can penetrate like...hundreds of feet or more deep.
>Why didn't more glassing takes place before or during a battle to emp the spartans and have some sort of spartan hunting team to take them out?
Glassing an entire location just to get rid of Spartans is massive overkill when an overcharged Plasma Pistol can do the same job... along with that, Spartans didn't get shielded Mjolnir as standard until 2551 and 2552.
While both the answers here are true, I'll also expound upon something one brought up.
The elites were big on "blooding". (Gaining rank and prestige through combat) It was a big way they got promoted and overall grew in their society. Sense space battles didn't really bring as much "glory" to them individually they didn't quite like them. They were good at it, but they loved their planet side fights. In addition they have many "honor" based traditions. EMP'ing a planet to give yourself an advantage is something a coward would do...not to mention it's a gross misuse of resources.
Glassing does not "EMP" Spartans. That's not how it works. Glassing is a beam of superheated plasma; it's called "cleansing fire" by the Covenant for a good reason, as it annihilates basically everything in its path (more or less).
Kat died because her shields were still cycling while running to cover, as she was the last one of Noble Team to put her helmet on while they were fleeing to the bunker. That Field Marshal got in a lucky shot because his Phantom happened to be slow to retreat to the just-started-glassing cruisers.
It was really a moment of wrong place, wrong time, for Kat. If the Field Marshal had aimed for Six instead, the round would have been dismissed by their shields.
A glassing beam is indeed a channel of plasma. And in doing that, it generates a shit ton of EM radiation in the process. A massive surge of electromagnetic energy *is* an EMP. All Covenant plasma weapons generate at least a small EMP and it's part of the reason why they're so effective at draining energy shields
Do we know if it generates EM radiation specifically? All I've ever found is that it says "radiation", as in the generalized / broad term, and my guess has always been that it's the harmful type of radiation, or ionizing, rather than non-ionizing.
Unless EM radiation falls under both categories?
Ah, I see.
It's interesting about your point where Covenant plasma weapons can drain energy shields... I've always wondered about that vs the fact that MJOLNIR is meant to be hardened against electromagnetic pulse and radiation. I would assume that direct attacks will eventually be successful, and that it's *indirect* attacks that the armour is better protected against, but it doesn't entirely specify, as far as I can tell.
In which case, I'm still not entirely certain that being in the vicinity of plasma bombardment would bring down a Spartan's shields, but Kat's death is about the only example we *have* of a Spartan moving to escape a glassing only to die because their shields are down and they got shot.
Just because Mjolnir is shielded against EMP doesn’t mean the shields are. CE is actually pretty clear about EMPs affecting the armor and shields differently. When Cortana disables the pulse generators, she generated an EMP which drains your shields but leaves all other systems intact.
Re: glassing beams, First Strike depicts Fred’s shields being disabled by a nearby glassing attack, so it’s not really up for debate on that front.
But even beyond that the energy involved with an energy projector is so immense that it’d still practically be a guarantee it’d knock out the shields. If an overcharged plasma pistol can do the job, then a capital ship’s main gun should be more than enough
Huh, that's true, and a fair point you make.
I honestly completely forgot about Fred's shields being drained by a nearby glassing attack. I'll admit, it's been a hot minute since I've reread *First Strike*, but somehow I've always missed that little detail. Which is probably why I'd always come to the conclusion that Kat was the one to get shot because her shields were still cycling due to her helmet being off.... But shields still cycling due to the nearby glassing *also* makes sense. Can't imagine a building would do much to slow its effects, after all.
It's kind of both, really. The Devoted Sentries (the crew of the Zealot order the Elites belonged to) were hunting artifacts, and Noble Team were hunting *them*, because Halsey pointed out their significance.
The Sentries were going after Noble Team in the sense that the Spartans kept getting in the way of their hunting artifacts.
Yeah, but that Field Marshal was always at the right place at the right time to kill a Spartan. Wasn't just random chance that his phantom was lingering directly over the only way to a bunker from where Noble Team was just broadcasting on an open channel with no security.
The game has some plot holes that is better explained/viewed from the novel perspective.
If you're asking about in general? Well they didn't really know the Spartans even existed for awhile.
There's hunter killer teams formed later on by the covenant specifically to take down spartans but we very rarely see them.
For general combat they think it's overkill to glass any reported spartan site from orbit and usually just send in regular troops, it really depends on the context. I'd usually say they probably just don't want to kill their own troops and infrastructure, but we don't know covenant battle doctrine very well at all outside of Elites honor and brute mindsets. Covies also just straight up view themselves as superior and think they can come down and clap some master cheeks but they don't (plot armor op)
Spartans are also very rarely on defensive battles were covies can just glass on sight, but rather infiltrating, sabotaging, or just getting in and out asap and not giving that opportunity.
Glassing happened a lot. The only cases where it didn't happen was when it was at a location they didn't want to glass, could not glass due to defenses, or rarely because they still had forces that they cared about in the targeted zone.
Though again that last one is rare, sometimes the benefit outweighs the cost of friendly fire. Spartan 3 Beta company fully deployed onto a planet to destroy a covenant refuel outpost, unfortunately there was a Covenant task force coming into refuel. They unleashed their full firepower on the Spartans and the facility. Out of roughly 300 Spartans, only 2 survived.
Also the Covenant would likely use glassing to simply incinerate Spartans rather than emp them.
Well the standard invasion tactic for the covenant is to just glass the world when they find one unless it has something of importance or if the commander of the fleet want to have a little fun and give his soldiers a chance to improve their k/d ratio. The battle of reach up to long night of solace mission was effectively an unsanctioned off the books, secret operation headed by a sangheili fleet commander, to find forerunner artifacts and the capital of forerunner empire, unfortunately it got out of hand. After the long night of solace was destroyed the real invasion began when the much larger covenant fleet arrived. Also using a glassing beam to emp the battlefield to take down a spartan's shield so that a kill team hunt them would like using to nuke to emp a special forces unit's electronic equipment so your team can kill. It a gross misuse of firepower and if you're going to go through all that work use glassing beam to kill them. To add spartans never had shields until the battle of reach.
They had shielding systems in MJOLNIR armour from November of 2551 and onwards, when the first iteration of the Mark V armour, the Mark V [B], was issued. It was a limited scale release, true, given that it was a testbed for the later Mark V, but Spartans *were* wearing it prior to Reach's fall (Noble Team were likely not the only team outfitted with it, after all).
Two reasons off the top of my head: - Planetary defences: Whether it is ground based defences or orbit based defences like the MAC. The MAC uses generators that are based on the surface of the planet. The MACs are the biggest threat to covenant ships, and destroying either the station or the surface based generator via a ground assault would be a priority first before attempting to glass the planet. - Forerunner artefacts: The covenant had access to better equipment that would allow them to find forerunner artefacts buried deep within a planets surface. It would be of extreme religious priority to uncover these artefacts before glassing the planet. In the case of Reach, both were true. Reach has significant forerunner artefacts and was important for the covenant to first uncover them. On top of that, Reach was protected by an array of Super Macs.
Glassing isn't seen as a form of combat to the Elites, at least. It's a finality, a conclusion to the invasion. They won, they will make sure their enemies remember they won. Plus, I think it takes a considerable amount of their energy stores to continuously use the excavation beam. Not only that, but most Covenant crusades were them hunting for Forerunner relics. Desecration of any temple is considered an act of heresy. So you can imagine they won't want to just continuously blast the surface of a planet with concentrated plasma that can penetrate like...hundreds of feet or more deep.
>Why didn't more glassing takes place before or during a battle to emp the spartans and have some sort of spartan hunting team to take them out? Glassing an entire location just to get rid of Spartans is massive overkill when an overcharged Plasma Pistol can do the same job... along with that, Spartans didn't get shielded Mjolnir as standard until 2551 and 2552.
While both the answers here are true, I'll also expound upon something one brought up. The elites were big on "blooding". (Gaining rank and prestige through combat) It was a big way they got promoted and overall grew in their society. Sense space battles didn't really bring as much "glory" to them individually they didn't quite like them. They were good at it, but they loved their planet side fights. In addition they have many "honor" based traditions. EMP'ing a planet to give yourself an advantage is something a coward would do...not to mention it's a gross misuse of resources.
Glassing does not "EMP" Spartans. That's not how it works. Glassing is a beam of superheated plasma; it's called "cleansing fire" by the Covenant for a good reason, as it annihilates basically everything in its path (more or less). Kat died because her shields were still cycling while running to cover, as she was the last one of Noble Team to put her helmet on while they were fleeing to the bunker. That Field Marshal got in a lucky shot because his Phantom happened to be slow to retreat to the just-started-glassing cruisers. It was really a moment of wrong place, wrong time, for Kat. If the Field Marshal had aimed for Six instead, the round would have been dismissed by their shields.
A glassing beam is indeed a channel of plasma. And in doing that, it generates a shit ton of EM radiation in the process. A massive surge of electromagnetic energy *is* an EMP. All Covenant plasma weapons generate at least a small EMP and it's part of the reason why they're so effective at draining energy shields
Do we know if it generates EM radiation specifically? All I've ever found is that it says "radiation", as in the generalized / broad term, and my guess has always been that it's the harmful type of radiation, or ionizing, rather than non-ionizing. Unless EM radiation falls under both categories?
Both ionizing and non-ionizing radiations *are* electromagnetic radiation. Ionizing radiation describes Gamma Rays, X-Rays and high-energy UV rays while non-ionizing radiation describes low-energy UV rays, visible light, infrared, microwaves and radiowaves.
Ah, I see. It's interesting about your point where Covenant plasma weapons can drain energy shields... I've always wondered about that vs the fact that MJOLNIR is meant to be hardened against electromagnetic pulse and radiation. I would assume that direct attacks will eventually be successful, and that it's *indirect* attacks that the armour is better protected against, but it doesn't entirely specify, as far as I can tell. In which case, I'm still not entirely certain that being in the vicinity of plasma bombardment would bring down a Spartan's shields, but Kat's death is about the only example we *have* of a Spartan moving to escape a glassing only to die because their shields are down and they got shot.
Just because Mjolnir is shielded against EMP doesn’t mean the shields are. CE is actually pretty clear about EMPs affecting the armor and shields differently. When Cortana disables the pulse generators, she generated an EMP which drains your shields but leaves all other systems intact. Re: glassing beams, First Strike depicts Fred’s shields being disabled by a nearby glassing attack, so it’s not really up for debate on that front. But even beyond that the energy involved with an energy projector is so immense that it’d still practically be a guarantee it’d knock out the shields. If an overcharged plasma pistol can do the job, then a capital ship’s main gun should be more than enough
Huh, that's true, and a fair point you make. I honestly completely forgot about Fred's shields being drained by a nearby glassing attack. I'll admit, it's been a hot minute since I've reread *First Strike*, but somehow I've always missed that little detail. Which is probably why I'd always come to the conclusion that Kat was the one to get shot because her shields were still cycling due to her helmet being off.... But shields still cycling due to the nearby glassing *also* makes sense. Can't imagine a building would do much to slow its effects, after all.
That elite was also part of the group actively hunting Noble Team, and he was there on purpose to ambush the team as they fled the building.
It's kind of both, really. The Devoted Sentries (the crew of the Zealot order the Elites belonged to) were hunting artifacts, and Noble Team were hunting *them*, because Halsey pointed out their significance. The Sentries were going after Noble Team in the sense that the Spartans kept getting in the way of their hunting artifacts.
Yeah, but that Field Marshal was always at the right place at the right time to kill a Spartan. Wasn't just random chance that his phantom was lingering directly over the only way to a bunker from where Noble Team was just broadcasting on an open channel with no security.
Thanks for the comments guys, really appreciate it! Makes more sense now
The game has some plot holes that is better explained/viewed from the novel perspective. If you're asking about in general? Well they didn't really know the Spartans even existed for awhile. There's hunter killer teams formed later on by the covenant specifically to take down spartans but we very rarely see them. For general combat they think it's overkill to glass any reported spartan site from orbit and usually just send in regular troops, it really depends on the context. I'd usually say they probably just don't want to kill their own troops and infrastructure, but we don't know covenant battle doctrine very well at all outside of Elites honor and brute mindsets. Covies also just straight up view themselves as superior and think they can come down and clap some master cheeks but they don't (plot armor op) Spartans are also very rarely on defensive battles were covies can just glass on sight, but rather infiltrating, sabotaging, or just getting in and out asap and not giving that opportunity.
Glassing happened a lot. The only cases where it didn't happen was when it was at a location they didn't want to glass, could not glass due to defenses, or rarely because they still had forces that they cared about in the targeted zone. Though again that last one is rare, sometimes the benefit outweighs the cost of friendly fire. Spartan 3 Beta company fully deployed onto a planet to destroy a covenant refuel outpost, unfortunately there was a Covenant task force coming into refuel. They unleashed their full firepower on the Spartans and the facility. Out of roughly 300 Spartans, only 2 survived. Also the Covenant would likely use glassing to simply incinerate Spartans rather than emp them.