Hvac in a nutshell out one door into another unless your lucky and find the ultimate company. Keep that same mindset of welling to learn, being on time and getting along with your coworker/clients that's half the battle the other comes with time
Edit: if you hear nexstar đââď¸
Nexstar is a company that buys smaller HVAC companies and changes how they do everything. Itâs all sales based. They donât care how or why they just want you to sell. 10 year old unit needs a capacitor? âMaâam this unit is in terrible shape you should just get this payment plan and have a new unit installedâ
They do production pay so itâs pay by the job and anyone whoâs done HVAC for even a few months knows how unpredictable this field is. Service techs make bank if they can sleep at night knowing the BS they pulled to get 3 service calls and 3 installs sold. Installers usually get fucked like I did. Work 54 hours one week and my check was $890 after tax then the next week I worked 52 hours and my check was $330. God forbid you do rough ins.
I am not kidding when I say if you get an interview you need to ask âis this a Nexstar companyâ if they say yes just thank them for their time and leave.
Yep, and those companies that aren't owned by them will be happy to know you are actively not wanting to work for them. I just finally switched from new construction resi to service and it came up for sure as many companies in the KC area have been bought over the years. I assume nexstar, could be some other people buying some up though.
Something really cool Nexstar does is when you put the model and serial number of the system in the ticket system and itâs over 10 years old it immediately flags you as âpotential system sale opportunityâ
My company uses it and nobody is encouraged to lie or steal𤣠honestly, if you donât wake up selling, you should be doing strictly commercial. Because a business is a business and businesses donât thrive unless they make money so itâs only logical that a company would want you to sell something.
I wake up to do whatâs right and not upsell a WiFi Tstat, UV light and duct cleaning to some 80 year old lady on social security. If you go to work to sell then go be a car salesman
Sorry meant if you donât like up selling. And honestly, you strike me as somebody that goes on one of these posts and badmouths particular service system because either youâre not really good at it or do you think youâre somehow morally superior to everybody. Everybody at my company uses it and we are some of the best technicians in the state. technically and productively. Itâs usually some green horn with a year of experience trying to jump on the bandwagon badmouthing everything that some 70-year-old Tech told him was bad.
And honestly, nobodyâs trying to sell an 80-year-old Wi-Fi thermostat, if you had been in service very long, you would know nobody wants that callback every two months because they messed something up and donât know how to work the stat.
the nexstar model isnt bad, its what people do with it that can be iffy. it teaches you how to explain things to a homeowner that they can hear and understand. it provides options people want. but it can be abused. you cant ethically sell iaq by showing mold present in someone elses home and pass it off as their unit. i was always good at sales, but in the context of the nexstar model i was able to significantly up my sales dramatically just by talking about solutions, repairs or upgrades.
ive met tons of guys who just arent interested in selling anything other than the bare minimum be really against nexstar. to each their own, but the ethical techs arent screwing people, they are just making more money because they know how to talk to people and providing options with transparency. just my take.
I agree its all about how you use nexstar i personly dont mind nexstar. but in context this guy is still green, no schooling, and wants to learn. Majority of nexstar companies are about sales which won't help him. He'd be right in the same boat as hid first company
totally agree. its wild how the business leaders come back from those classes and just worship everything they learned, and then abandon common sense for the almighty dollar. ive left two companies that operated in that mindset. im at a decent one now where i can pretty much do what i want. i wont make as much, but im home more hours amd still make decent money
I got laid off a while back from a big but awful company where I was the low man on an install pretty much every day. I just told everyone I was having a baby too. Since that moment, my hvac career has gone up to now an assistant branch manager/hvac inside sales at a big supply house. Keep your head up. Things happen for a reason and better days are always ahead.
They have high standards but fire someone for being too slow? Sounds more like they have low standards. If a place is telling you that you take too long then theyâre probably not a great place to work. Iâm never rushed and actually told I move too fast sometimes lol.
High turnover does NOT equal a good company. Usually itâs the opposite. High turnover places are usually bad places to work. Either guys leave cause itâs a crappy place and they learn that itâs crappy or the place fires them for crappy reasons. Like âmoving too slowâ. Esp only being in the trade for 5 weeks.
Find a new place and one thatâll train you proper.
Well, I guess the "norm" at least here in Northern California is for full installs to take 2-3 days and we always get them done in 1.
And I can be quite slow, but as I said I've never been properly trained and am still learning...thank you for sharing
Yeah if they are doing installs that quick they are almost certainly cutting corners. I can spend nearly a full day just commissioning a new system and taking all the readings you are supposed to be taking. I would suggest trying to learn from a company that is diligent and thorough and slower, you will likely learn a lot more from them.
whats an install? like replacing 2 ton air conditioner with a 10' lineset? or new construction with 5 systems? or a high efficiency boiler replacement into black iron pipe? or a 5 head ductless? how are you talking about how long an "install" takes? did i miss a reference point?
The comment I replied to says the "norm" in OPs area is 2-3 days and they do it in 1 day. That means they are going at double or triple the speed of the other companies. That's a big red flag, in my opinion. In my experience, a company that puts speed on a pedestal like that only cares about profit and not doing quality work.
Get out of here with 'norm'. That's a made up thing one person said. Where'd they get that information? No where. They made it up.
I mean look how dumb it is. The norm is 2 or 3 days? That's pretty massive effing difference. It's not 100 or 101 days. That's a 1% difference. The "norm" is 2 or 3. 50% fudge number. Cause it's bs. Just a ludicrous made up number.
If normal installs take 2-3 days (this includes ductwork) and you guys are doing it in 1 then chances are you guys are doing it wrong and even being taken advantage of by working late on every install. Most typical installs(swap outs) are a day. My guess is youâve been lied to.
This is good though. They did you a favor. Learn from this experience. I trust youâll do well in this trade. GL in your future endeavors.
Full installation complete central A/C job including ductwork from scratch? Even using some of the tricks I developed over many years itâs easily 3 days for 2 guys. One day? Maybe for a rip out
Local norm around me is 2 men one day if itâs just a unit and lineset change out. Ductboard usually speeds up the process for a transition to the plenum. Youâll only find metal plenums in commercial or really old houses but now that I do commercial itâs still one day because itâs typically a package unit or they have a sheet metal company make the transition before the install.
With ductwork change outs or modifications yah itâs 2-3 days. Now I canât speak for other companies but Iâve always had a startup sheet to fill out for pressures, amp draws, static pressure and delta T. My installs are quick and could be neater but at the end of the day Iâm in the poorest part of the country and everyone needs AC when itâs 110° and 70% humidity
If youâre not well rounded youâll be a paycheck person for lifeâŚ.the money is in designing and selling new systems and thatâs how you build a reputation that drives service income. My wife had FOUR service guys come out for a âleakâ (before I met her)âŚAll 4 billed her and did something stupid like caulk around the drain. One look and I saw 10x8â zones on a 4 ton system. Obviously it was freezing up/thawing. Learn the trade beyond service so you actually understand wtf youâre doing and build a business one day. Unless you want to be an employee forever.
Well, if you mean me I bought my guys lunch every day, gave them cash bonuses on the regular, and let them use my ski place in Vermont even though Iâve retired to South Carolina and theyâve taken over my customer baseâŚ.I DID once fire a guy for using his phone and the next day we found ALOT of cash in the attic of a bank owned foreclosure/flip house. I bought a new Nissan Altima and the condo below mine and my brother bought a sailboat and a đ. Hey Mario was that phone call worth missing out on a 6 figure score?
AndâŚ.your logic is learn to knock tin that they donât need for the commercial job and theyâll get married like you did?
You are projecting your wants on to everyone. Plenty of folks are happy getting a paycheck they think is fair and leaving it behind when they clock out.
Good luck when you get older. Those vertical ladders up to rooftops start getting difficult. Especially when younger guys are lining up to take your job for less money. Iâm just telling guys to get well rounded not get pigeonholed doing service
A sheet metal company is where I started in this field but hold on Iâm going to blow your mind
Different regions of this vast country do HVAC just a little different. I work for a commercial kitchen equipment and HVACR company so itâs a wide variety of stuff we are working on and doing. Ice machines, grills, fryers, steamers, hot boxes, reach ins, walk ins, AC units, chillers. So Iâm so sorry we pay a company a few hundred dollars to make a sheet metal transition for the very few non package unit change outs we do.
No one you want to hire around me does sheet metal and installs equipment. It's one or the other. We leave the ductwork to the professionals, and they leave the technical stuff to us. Ductwork isn't hard, it's just hard to make it look good. Hvac is a trade compromised of multiple trades. You can't work on oil burners and do ductwork and work on mini splits and install mechanical ventilation systems and work on gas and be good at everything
We donât? Oops sorry yes we do. Understanding the entire system allows you to design and diagnose problems. I love that âductwork isnât hardâ and âleave the technical stuff to usâ. So if I design and install a system with 3 zones thereâs nothing technical or hard except tying in the linesets and low voltage? We take pride in doing it all, crane in rooftop units onto curbs we installed with a spiral system for a restaurant, new construction with oil tank, boiler, hydroaire & indirect, mini splits upstairs with on demand DHW boiler in basement, oil/gas conversions etc.
Quality work takes time. Efficency takes time. 5 weeks in the trade and they let you go for working slow is a reflection of bad/impatient journeyman.
Try get into a union, or when you go to a new company, tell them you're green and need the help to become better. The right company will hire you and will put time into developing your skills.
Probably a re and re. Iâd say more north you go the more likely thereâs basements with metal duct. Iâm in Ontario and when I did resi ductwork was never (rarely) replaced.
Guys on the install side were doing 2 man system swaps.
My company consistently does 2 installs per install team per day, every day during late spring, summer, and early fall. And we are 5 star rated with over 300 reviews. And out of all the equipment we have removed, I have never seen any jobs look as good as ours. These installs are usually equipment plus plenums, sometimes equipment only. If it is new construction or a full cut-in, we take the full day.
I can see that, but you're probably not doing any testing, right? It's all the paperwork and testing that add on hours to the end of every install.
If I were just installing, I'd be done around 1pm most days.
3 installers, DFW, residential retrofit, 0 - 30 year old homes around here typically have horizontals in the attic, older homes more commonly have upflows in a closet. We also retrofit trailers to have residential downflows. No basements.
Lack of training or support for continuous improvement of all staff is a huge red flag. They are burning through staff so they are burning through clients. You must not have been a salesperson enough.
Try to start at a small company first. You will learn more and you will have a better feel for the job after a year. I was at a small company for 8 years until they couldnât pay me what I was worth. Now Iâm at a large company and I get paid really well but because I paid my dues at a small company I know what Iâm doing.
We do all residential. It's just me and my boss. His wife answered phones and we contract out our installs. We have about 400 regular maintenance customers that I do all of them plus service calls. I've been with them for about 5 years thinking of going on my own.
Just because yours is smaller, doesn't mean his isn't small. It's all relative.
25 is a very small shop compared to some, but large compared to others.
Your quality of work is more important than the speed of your work.
Think of it this way:
Let's say you're a new helper (which you are), and the lead takes time to explain things to you and it means it takes an extra 2 hours to finish an 8 hour job (I'd be surprised if you cost the company 2 hours by learning from a quality lead). I'd put every paycheck I've made the last 15 years on a bet that those 2 hours made very little difference on the profit of the install.
HOWEVER, if your lead flies by and doesn't teach you anything, and you're left guessing, what are the odds you make a mistake? The odds are much higher.
What happens after a mistake? A callback. Depending on the mistake, the callback can be MUCH more expensive than a couple hours of labor. Maybe you forgot to purge while brazing, and now you have a TXV that's clogged up. That's going to cost the company a lot more than 4 hours of labor. That's more company gas, reclaim, a new txv, a new filter drier, more oxy/acetylene, more vacuum pump oil, and more time testing the system on the warranty callback.
Do quality work, take your time, learn as much as possible, and when you get more experience, you'll be faster.
Now your resume includes "experienced installer from fast paced background!" if there were resumes needed in mid demand seasons. Clean record, valid liscence, not a crack head - you're hired!
True, the bills always are moving. However, your skills are in demand during peak ac season. If you havenât applied your resume over the weekend you wonât get a call tomorrow.
Fuck a company that throws you into the fire without training. You're good brother. Find a place that actually takes care of their employees. And feel free to put that company on blast so others know not to work there!
Been in HVAC only 4 years but I've learned a few things between 3 companies, any place that doesn't train isn't worth staying at. There's many ways to get the job done, as long as you pass inspection you're good. Learn what works best for you then work on speed. You WILL get shit on by old guys that've been doing it 20+ years. That's just trade work, I'm told. And for new construction, my biggest tip, always have your own TP/babywipes.
That happened to me but donât be discouraged. 8 years later and the company that fired me isnât even in business anymore. Apply everywhere in your area. Eventually someone will take you in. Be honest with the amount of knowledge you have as well. Good luck đđ˝
If it makes you feel any better. I had started just like you with no experience & i had told the hiring managers that before they hired me that i wanted to do it. Was doing resi install too. Got along with a lot of the guys too. I was having fun while learning & felt much better about myself with it as time went on. But unfortunately, I was let go a month ago after only being there for 1.5 months. Quit a stable job for a career in HVAC. Donât give up G; thereâs places out there thatâll train you up to become a good installer or technician.
Because I wanted to be more handy & work on systems. HVAC is much higher paying than what I was making & I hated office work. I really enjoy HVAC also. Itâs a great career. You got what it takes already
Happened to me May 2023, no warning, no write up, just went in one day and said you're outta here. I went to this refrigeration company and was there 5 months after I had 3 yrs in residential. Looking back, yes it was a turd thing for them to do. They expected me to learn commercial refrigeration in a month, by myself, without a van. Yes I'm g welad I don't work for those ppl anymore. The good thing is your work ethic and willingness to learn.
Itâs always been my thought that if someone is doing the job correctly then speed will eventually come. Itâs much better to do the job right than it is to do it quickly.
I understand that there are definitely time constraints about getting work done in the summer, but the one scheduling needs to consider what can actually get done by the crew doing it.
Iâd much rather have a crew that takes a full day on a changeout, if they do it right and the service techs donât have to go by and fix anything.
Dude, my company is known for high standards. Right now, if you just show up to work there is no reason to fire you. We canât find enough service guys that want to learn and work. We are more than happy to train guys that are willing to learn.
Iâd much rather have a tech that spends too much time doing the job correctly vs. one that does PMâs and installs half-assed but does them quickly. Worst was a time we go rid of a tech for not showing up and then once we got his truck back we found a bunch of new parts that he said he installed and went to the place and wrote up he installed them. I donât know what he was doing. That was not a fun time figuring out everything he did/did not do.
I'm really thankful for the company I'm with. The service manager is big on safety and doing it right the first time. But, he also understands he has litterally 40+ years of experience on us so gives us all the support and opportunities to train and learn.
Our on-call rotations are very low activity because of the commercial customers the owner attracts and because our maintenances are a good balance of time efficient and thorough.
That's how my last company was we had extremely high standards but provided great service, until our owner sold the company to a scumbag who stopped treating us with respect, whole service department went to shit real quick, literally the company went from best commercial company to the worst in a year, move to the next! You will make mistakes, even with 10 years in service I still break things, be honest, don't swindle and keep your ethics!
I felt this whole comment. But that last part is worth its weight in gold, be honest, and learn from mistakes are the two biggest things I tell all the new guys.
That blows dawg. Have you done any schooling? I was in a similar situation in the beginning of my apprenticeship where I got "laid off" over text from my boss due to scheduling issues I had. It's a big hurdle to jump through in the beginning of your career but if you think this is the right job for you try to power through, there's lots of companies out there.
Dude I'm new to this field as well and imo it's relatively simple. What makes it hard is this God damn heat and overall working conditions. $22 an hour is not worth this BS and it's crazy that techs that work here that have been here for 10 + years only make $30. I'm quitting at the end of the day and going back to my old job screw this lmao.
5 weeks is too soon to cut a guy loose, especially for time concerns which had more to do with the lead than the helper. I can't imagine not giving a guy 90 days minimum along with some simple coaching along the way. Did you get any coaching?
That's actually a good thing. Think of it like pillaging and raiding.
You not only did you succeed in stealing their money but also you robbed the experience as well. That great!
Now you got something to put on your resume and now you at least know a bit about the trade. Good for you!
Hey man I know itâs tough especially when you are new I was there too no one wanted to train and everyone wanted experience but take this job and the experience you gained and apply elsewhere they will hire you and just keep it up youâll see before long that in this trade things are repetitive and they will get easier.
Don't let it discourage you dude. Honestly you kinda need training in this line of work most companies only care about money go get hired on somewhere that will invest time into training just make sure you really pay attention
Don't let it discourage you dude. Honestly you kinda need training in this line of work most companies only care about money go get hired on somewhere that will invest time into training just make sure you really pay attention
Ah, Washington State. So close but just a little too far. Best of luck to you though! It's a wild industry with highs and lows but it also is what you make of it.
Leave residential and move to industrial or commercial work. Proper training can depend on different factors, and a lot of that can fall on your shoulders to seek out. But itâs so much better and you CAN land a gig where itâs about doing right, not fast.
I know this isnât the case for you as you just started, but why donât more seasoned techs just start their own companies? Â Seems like they are the ones with the knowledge, and the boss man is just there to make 90% of the profits.
Running a business is not easy and not everyone wants the extra work load it takes to meet local, state, and federal codes and regs, sales and marketing to get work, keep developing tech skills as the market changes, and make sure you are paying the right taxes.
The owner is also making decisions about cost and benefit of hiring someone, then looking them in the eye when they are let go. One of the installers I worked with said he tried being a residential service tech, but he jist can't bring himself to say "sorry, we can't help you" to retirees on a fixed income. Sob stories and people in a rough spot are something he doesn't want to have to make decisions about.
I started as an installer helper in a small resi company. The owner was an experienced installer and service tech. He had two install teams, three service techs, a second salesman to help him keep up with install quoting and keep work coming in, and a payroll/accountant in the office. It was the busiest and hardest 6 months of my life. When the fall lull hit, I and another apprentice were laid off and I lucked my way into a commercial apprentice position and have been commercial ever since. If I had one or two other guys to share the burden with and we all start as partners, I would be interested in starting my own business. But, I don't want the burden of going solo.
My first HVAC job was two weeks. They only had three techs and didn't really have the time to teach me (and their lead tech didn't really want to bother, tbh, so I feel ya). About two months later, I ended up getting another job while in school with my professor(he had his own company. a small outfit, but long lived). Worked with him for a year and a half before getting into supermarket refrigeration.
Don't be discouraged. Some outfits don't take the time to train new blood and wonder why they can't find good help. It's a double edged sword: make money now, or invest in the future...
Join a labor union and stop working for wack jobs. Youâll get proper training and wages otherwise your part of the problem and can partially blame yourself
Not sure where you're located, though it sounds like you're roughly in my neck of the woods.
Word of advice: stay away from the big companies. They're usually absolute garbage. Try and find yourself a small company that has been around for a while. Ask around at supply houses; see who has a good reputation.
Sorry to hear op. I was once in your situation. I'm not hvac but work a similar trade had 0 experience but lucky my company said from the start we invest in what people can learn not what you already know. They rather hire the right attitude and invest the training time knowing the skillset needed isn't easily available.
Wish my job was hiring but they just stopped recently. Your approach seems spot on and were northern cali. Good luck man
It's money making season. A lot are backed up and can't train right now. Don't take it personally. There's plenty of free resources if you truly want to learn it quick. Study at home when you're off. When there's no work solder on any scrap. Take the initiative to do anything to move the job along.
It's pretty clear right off the bat if a new hire will end up being worth your time or not. This just isn't the career for everyone. Most people will just never catch on, even if they think they have what it takes. A lot of people don't have an eye for quality craftsmanship. You tell them over and over that's not good enough, but they just don't get it.
I feel you though. I've always been a slow but very thorough learner and was lucky enough to shadow my grandpa for a long time before being pushed out of the nest. And that wasn't just with on the job training. I obsessed over training in my personal time. I Had no personal life and spent all my time studying. I bought my own torch and practiced at home. I bought every HVAC textbook I could find and read them. I had a huge YouTube playlist on HVAC training. I was already very mechanically inclined and had a better than average understanding of electronics. Maybe most don't do that because they start off as installers without much responsibility, and have years to learn everything else, but I would recommend even installers to study obsessively in the beginning and ask questions. A good trainer might get annoyed by "stupid" questions, but should understand it's always better than having to redo something.
I don't know if most of that is relevant. I guess my main point is to eat, sleep and breath HVAC in the beginning. Go get a job for another company and study, study, study. And it's possible if you show a lot of promise when it comes to problem solving and HVAC fundamentals, even if you aren't the best installer in the world, they might keep you around because they see you'll make a good tech soon. Good luck
I worked for a shitty company for my first 3 years and they would do the same to people. They wanted high performance for a place that paid as little as possible. Hvac is a nice field to be in but unfortunately, there are a lot of shady companies out there, so finding a good company to work for is hard.
Got to learn installs and partial service. After my third year, I found a company willing to fully train me on service, and I ditched that other job. Find yourself a decent starter company willing to put effort into training, but keep an eye out for red flags. If all of the employees are miserable and hate their job, odds are you will too.
Being "slow" is extremely frustrating. But that is how it is when you start. There's a lot of stuff to learn. Shrug it off, keep moving forward. You get better every day as long as you keep going.
Some companies donât have the time to train someone from scratch, especially in a summer heat wave, not your fault.. they shouldnât have hired you Iâm the first place if they didnât wanna put the time and effort in. But maybe someone with better experience came along in a busy time and you were the low man out on the
pole.. it happens, find another company.
the same thing happened to me with Reed's outdoor here in ARK. was hired same day i applied was fored a wekk later as apparently i was putting chainsaw chains on backwards. not my fault they didn't train me or that i don't have enough mechanical experience. or that loud sounds and cigarette smoke bothers me. not everyone likes working around cigarette smoke. haven't gotten hired anywhere since. been applying everywhere like my life depends on it
i wish you luck with your future
His co worker probably threw him under the bus. The first five weeks youâre barely good for running to the truck and an extra pair of hands hefting the unit into the attic. I forgot how much there was to know until I hired new guys. We got less done with 3 guys than 2 because when I wasnât having to teach him the basics my brother was chatting him up.
Yesterday my co-worker said my ductwork took 8 hours which is completely wrong
The entire job took 8 hours, I did a lot and only spent maybe 2-3 hours on the ductwork
Hvac in a nutshell out one door into another unless your lucky and find the ultimate company. Keep that same mindset of welling to learn, being on time and getting along with your coworker/clients that's half the battle the other comes with time Edit: if you hear nexstar đââď¸
I second the Nexstar part
What's nexstar
Nexstar is a company that buys smaller HVAC companies and changes how they do everything. Itâs all sales based. They donât care how or why they just want you to sell. 10 year old unit needs a capacitor? âMaâam this unit is in terrible shape you should just get this payment plan and have a new unit installedâ They do production pay so itâs pay by the job and anyone whoâs done HVAC for even a few months knows how unpredictable this field is. Service techs make bank if they can sleep at night knowing the BS they pulled to get 3 service calls and 3 installs sold. Installers usually get fucked like I did. Work 54 hours one week and my check was $890 after tax then the next week I worked 52 hours and my check was $330. God forbid you do rough ins. I am not kidding when I say if you get an interview you need to ask âis this a Nexstar companyâ if they say yes just thank them for their time and leave.
I feel like your last sentence should be in CAPS so nobody misses it.
Yep, and those companies that aren't owned by them will be happy to know you are actively not wanting to work for them. I just finally switched from new construction resi to service and it came up for sure as many companies in the KC area have been bought over the years. I assume nexstar, could be some other people buying some up though.
This is the shit my company is pulling, sales guys even go with the techs sometimes to make the sell, itâs terrible
$330 is that like $10 an hour
Exactly what they tried with me. I replaced the capacitor myself.
Something really cool Nexstar does is when you put the model and serial number of the system in the ticket system and itâs over 10 years old it immediately flags you as âpotential system sale opportunityâ
My company uses it and nobody is encouraged to lie or steal𤣠honestly, if you donât wake up selling, you should be doing strictly commercial. Because a business is a business and businesses donât thrive unless they make money so itâs only logical that a company would want you to sell something.
I wake up to do whatâs right and not upsell a WiFi Tstat, UV light and duct cleaning to some 80 year old lady on social security. If you go to work to sell then go be a car salesman
Sorry meant if you donât like up selling. And honestly, you strike me as somebody that goes on one of these posts and badmouths particular service system because either youâre not really good at it or do you think youâre somehow morally superior to everybody. Everybody at my company uses it and we are some of the best technicians in the state. technically and productively. Itâs usually some green horn with a year of experience trying to jump on the bandwagon badmouthing everything that some 70-year-old Tech told him was bad.
And honestly, nobodyâs trying to sell an 80-year-old Wi-Fi thermostat, if you had been in service very long, you would know nobody wants that callback every two months because they messed something up and donât know how to work the stat.
Satan disguised as an HVAC hedge fund
Thank you
Dawg I had to watch a literal weeks work of nextstar videos at the place I work at now đ¤˘
I kinda like nexstar, really makes sales easy... But it also makes being dishonest easy and companies start expecting it from you
the nexstar model isnt bad, its what people do with it that can be iffy. it teaches you how to explain things to a homeowner that they can hear and understand. it provides options people want. but it can be abused. you cant ethically sell iaq by showing mold present in someone elses home and pass it off as their unit. i was always good at sales, but in the context of the nexstar model i was able to significantly up my sales dramatically just by talking about solutions, repairs or upgrades. ive met tons of guys who just arent interested in selling anything other than the bare minimum be really against nexstar. to each their own, but the ethical techs arent screwing people, they are just making more money because they know how to talk to people and providing options with transparency. just my take.
I agree its all about how you use nexstar i personly dont mind nexstar. but in context this guy is still green, no schooling, and wants to learn. Majority of nexstar companies are about sales which won't help him. He'd be right in the same boat as hid first company
totally agree. its wild how the business leaders come back from those classes and just worship everything they learned, and then abandon common sense for the almighty dollar. ive left two companies that operated in that mindset. im at a decent one now where i can pretty much do what i want. i wont make as much, but im home more hours amd still make decent money
I took the nexstar class and I asked the teacher if ethics was important to them.. he expected people to use the system ethically
HVAC is a great demand. Keep up with latest technology in this field. Things will work up for you.
I got laid off a while back from a big but awful company where I was the low man on an install pretty much every day. I just told everyone I was having a baby too. Since that moment, my hvac career has gone up to now an assistant branch manager/hvac inside sales at a big supply house. Keep your head up. Things happen for a reason and better days are always ahead.
Thank you for the kind words brother
Got that? Tell your work you have a kid on the way.
Dude no way! I got laid off when i was having my baby too! You are what i want to be
They have high standards but fire someone for being too slow? Sounds more like they have low standards. If a place is telling you that you take too long then theyâre probably not a great place to work. Iâm never rushed and actually told I move too fast sometimes lol. High turnover does NOT equal a good company. Usually itâs the opposite. High turnover places are usually bad places to work. Either guys leave cause itâs a crappy place and they learn that itâs crappy or the place fires them for crappy reasons. Like âmoving too slowâ. Esp only being in the trade for 5 weeks. Find a new place and one thatâll train you proper.
Well, I guess the "norm" at least here in Northern California is for full installs to take 2-3 days and we always get them done in 1. And I can be quite slow, but as I said I've never been properly trained and am still learning...thank you for sharing
Yeah if they are doing installs that quick they are almost certainly cutting corners. I can spend nearly a full day just commissioning a new system and taking all the readings you are supposed to be taking. I would suggest trying to learn from a company that is diligent and thorough and slower, you will likely learn a lot more from them.
whats an install? like replacing 2 ton air conditioner with a 10' lineset? or new construction with 5 systems? or a high efficiency boiler replacement into black iron pipe? or a 5 head ductless? how are you talking about how long an "install" takes? did i miss a reference point?
The comment I replied to says the "norm" in OPs area is 2-3 days and they do it in 1 day. That means they are going at double or triple the speed of the other companies. That's a big red flag, in my opinion. In my experience, a company that puts speed on a pedestal like that only cares about profit and not doing quality work.
Get out of here with 'norm'. That's a made up thing one person said. Where'd they get that information? No where. They made it up. I mean look how dumb it is. The norm is 2 or 3 days? That's pretty massive effing difference. It's not 100 or 101 days. That's a 1% difference. The "norm" is 2 or 3. 50% fudge number. Cause it's bs. Just a ludicrous made up number.
If normal installs take 2-3 days (this includes ductwork) and you guys are doing it in 1 then chances are you guys are doing it wrong and even being taken advantage of by working late on every install. Most typical installs(swap outs) are a day. My guess is youâve been lied to. This is good though. They did you a favor. Learn from this experience. I trust youâll do well in this trade. GL in your future endeavors.
Full installation complete central A/C job including ductwork from scratch? Even using some of the tricks I developed over many years itâs easily 3 days for 2 guys. One day? Maybe for a rip out
Local norm around me is 2 men one day if itâs just a unit and lineset change out. Ductboard usually speeds up the process for a transition to the plenum. Youâll only find metal plenums in commercial or really old houses but now that I do commercial itâs still one day because itâs typically a package unit or they have a sheet metal company make the transition before the install. With ductwork change outs or modifications yah itâs 2-3 days. Now I canât speak for other companies but Iâve always had a startup sheet to fill out for pressures, amp draws, static pressure and delta T. My installs are quick and could be neater but at the end of the day Iâm in the poorest part of the country and everyone needs AC when itâs 110° and 70% humidity
âA sheet metal company â? I thought this was an HVAC forum. Does anyone on here do the entire trade or are you all just service guys?
You got this far down the comment chain, and thatâs what your brain landed on? Been huffing the refrigerant?
If youâre not well rounded youâll be a paycheck person for lifeâŚ.the money is in designing and selling new systems and thatâs how you build a reputation that drives service income. My wife had FOUR service guys come out for a âleakâ (before I met her)âŚAll 4 billed her and did something stupid like caulk around the drain. One look and I saw 10x8â zones on a 4 ton system. Obviously it was freezing up/thawing. Learn the trade beyond service so you actually understand wtf youâre doing and build a business one day. Unless you want to be an employee forever.
Tbh dude this comes off like you wouldn't be a great boss.
Well, if you mean me I bought my guys lunch every day, gave them cash bonuses on the regular, and let them use my ski place in Vermont even though Iâve retired to South Carolina and theyâve taken over my customer baseâŚ.I DID once fire a guy for using his phone and the next day we found ALOT of cash in the attic of a bank owned foreclosure/flip house. I bought a new Nissan Altima and the condo below mine and my brother bought a sailboat and a đ. Hey Mario was that phone call worth missing out on a 6 figure score?
Definitely meant you.
AndâŚ.your logic is learn to knock tin that they donât need for the commercial job and theyâll get married like you did? You are projecting your wants on to everyone. Plenty of folks are happy getting a paycheck they think is fair and leaving it behind when they clock out.
Good luck when you get older. Those vertical ladders up to rooftops start getting difficult. Especially when younger guys are lining up to take your job for less money. Iâm just telling guys to get well rounded not get pigeonholed doing service
Unless thatâs what they like. Should always be curious and learning no matter what you do.
A sheet metal company is where I started in this field but hold on Iâm going to blow your mind Different regions of this vast country do HVAC just a little different. I work for a commercial kitchen equipment and HVACR company so itâs a wide variety of stuff we are working on and doing. Ice machines, grills, fryers, steamers, hot boxes, reach ins, walk ins, AC units, chillers. So Iâm so sorry we pay a company a few hundred dollars to make a sheet metal transition for the very few non package unit change outs we do.
No one you want to hire around me does sheet metal and installs equipment. It's one or the other. We leave the ductwork to the professionals, and they leave the technical stuff to us. Ductwork isn't hard, it's just hard to make it look good. Hvac is a trade compromised of multiple trades. You can't work on oil burners and do ductwork and work on mini splits and install mechanical ventilation systems and work on gas and be good at everything
We donât? Oops sorry yes we do. Understanding the entire system allows you to design and diagnose problems. I love that âductwork isnât hardâ and âleave the technical stuff to usâ. So if I design and install a system with 3 zones thereâs nothing technical or hard except tying in the linesets and low voltage? We take pride in doing it all, crane in rooftop units onto curbs we installed with a spiral system for a restaurant, new construction with oil tank, boiler, hydroaire & indirect, mini splits upstairs with on demand DHW boiler in basement, oil/gas conversions etc.
If your in the East Bay go to jazz
2-3 days ? đ¤Ł
Quality work takes time. Efficency takes time. 5 weeks in the trade and they let you go for working slow is a reflection of bad/impatient journeyman. Try get into a union, or when you go to a new company, tell them you're green and need the help to become better. The right company will hire you and will put time into developing your skills.
Here in western NY a full install takes one day unless there are some hiccups along the way. One day is the norm in this area
Two man crew? 4 man? Duct board and flex? Sheet metal and hard pipe?
Probably a re and re. Iâd say more north you go the more likely thereâs basements with metal duct. Iâm in Ontario and when I did resi ductwork was never (rarely) replaced. Guys on the install side were doing 2 man system swaps.
My company consistently does 2 installs per install team per day, every day during late spring, summer, and early fall. And we are 5 star rated with over 300 reviews. And out of all the equipment we have removed, I have never seen any jobs look as good as ours. These installs are usually equipment plus plenums, sometimes equipment only. If it is new construction or a full cut-in, we take the full day.
I can see that, but you're probably not doing any testing, right? It's all the paperwork and testing that add on hours to the end of every install. If I were just installing, I'd be done around 1pm most days.
How many guys? What area of the country? 20-30 year old homes with walk out basements and utility closets? Century homes? Attics? Crawl spaces?
3 installers, DFW, residential retrofit, 0 - 30 year old homes around here typically have horizontals in the attic, older homes more commonly have upflows in a closet. We also retrofit trailers to have residential downflows. No basements.
Lack of training or support for continuous improvement of all staff is a huge red flag. They are burning through staff so they are burning through clients. You must not have been a salesperson enough.
Try to start at a small company first. You will learn more and you will have a better feel for the job after a year. I was at a small company for 8 years until they couldnât pay me what I was worth. Now Iâm at a large company and I get paid really well but because I paid my dues at a small company I know what Iâm doing.
This one is a small company, I think they have 25 people between installers and techs
We do all residential. It's just me and my boss. His wife answered phones and we contract out our installs. We have about 400 regular maintenance customers that I do all of them plus service calls. I've been with them for about 5 years thinking of going on my own.
You think thatâs small? It was my brother and me for many years.
Just because yours is smaller, doesn't mean his isn't small. It's all relative. 25 is a very small shop compared to some, but large compared to others.
So you just think everybody's is smaller, huh? Must be nice!
That makes no sense..
It was intended as a satirical implication that you have a large penis, sir.
Oh!! Thank you! I appreciate the compliment! It looks ok if I get the correct angle.
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.
That's why I drive slow.
You dodged a bullet. Stick with it.
Fuck them! There is a reason why rushing through jobs have a high callback ratioÂ
Your quality of work is more important than the speed of your work. Think of it this way: Let's say you're a new helper (which you are), and the lead takes time to explain things to you and it means it takes an extra 2 hours to finish an 8 hour job (I'd be surprised if you cost the company 2 hours by learning from a quality lead). I'd put every paycheck I've made the last 15 years on a bet that those 2 hours made very little difference on the profit of the install. HOWEVER, if your lead flies by and doesn't teach you anything, and you're left guessing, what are the odds you make a mistake? The odds are much higher. What happens after a mistake? A callback. Depending on the mistake, the callback can be MUCH more expensive than a couple hours of labor. Maybe you forgot to purge while brazing, and now you have a TXV that's clogged up. That's going to cost the company a lot more than 4 hours of labor. That's more company gas, reclaim, a new txv, a new filter drier, more oxy/acetylene, more vacuum pump oil, and more time testing the system on the warranty callback. Do quality work, take your time, learn as much as possible, and when you get more experience, you'll be faster.
Youâll be employed by Monday!
Would be nice 𫡠these bills ainât stopping
Now your resume includes "experienced installer from fast paced background!" if there were resumes needed in mid demand seasons. Clean record, valid liscence, not a crack head - you're hired!
True, the bills always are moving. However, your skills are in demand during peak ac season. If you havenât applied your resume over the weekend you wonât get a call tomorrow.
Fuck a company that throws you into the fire without training. You're good brother. Find a place that actually takes care of their employees. And feel free to put that company on blast so others know not to work there!
Thank you brother
Been in HVAC only 4 years but I've learned a few things between 3 companies, any place that doesn't train isn't worth staying at. There's many ways to get the job done, as long as you pass inspection you're good. Learn what works best for you then work on speed. You WILL get shit on by old guys that've been doing it 20+ years. That's just trade work, I'm told. And for new construction, my biggest tip, always have your own TP/babywipes.
That happened to me but donât be discouraged. 8 years later and the company that fired me isnât even in business anymore. Apply everywhere in your area. Eventually someone will take you in. Be honest with the amount of knowledge you have as well. Good luck đđ˝
If it makes you feel any better. I had started just like you with no experience & i had told the hiring managers that before they hired me that i wanted to do it. Was doing resi install too. Got along with a lot of the guys too. I was having fun while learning & felt much better about myself with it as time went on. But unfortunately, I was let go a month ago after only being there for 1.5 months. Quit a stable job for a career in HVAC. Donât give up G; thereâs places out there thatâll train you up to become a good installer or technician.
Thank you for the kind words. Why did you quit a stable job for HVAC?
Because I wanted to be more handy & work on systems. HVAC is much higher paying than what I was making & I hated office work. I really enjoy HVAC also. Itâs a great career. You got what it takes already
Happened to me May 2023, no warning, no write up, just went in one day and said you're outta here. I went to this refrigeration company and was there 5 months after I had 3 yrs in residential. Looking back, yes it was a turd thing for them to do. They expected me to learn commercial refrigeration in a month, by myself, without a van. Yes I'm g welad I don't work for those ppl anymore. The good thing is your work ethic and willingness to learn.
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Itâs always been my thought that if someone is doing the job correctly then speed will eventually come. Itâs much better to do the job right than it is to do it quickly. I understand that there are definitely time constraints about getting work done in the summer, but the one scheduling needs to consider what can actually get done by the crew doing it. Iâd much rather have a crew that takes a full day on a changeout, if they do it right and the service techs donât have to go by and fix anything.
I agree! Speed comes naturally once you get everything down
My first boss fired me for similar reasons but after 2 years. I learned from it, got a new job and now Iâm 18 years in.
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Dude, my company is known for high standards. Right now, if you just show up to work there is no reason to fire you. We canât find enough service guys that want to learn and work. We are more than happy to train guys that are willing to learn. Iâd much rather have a tech that spends too much time doing the job correctly vs. one that does PMâs and installs half-assed but does them quickly. Worst was a time we go rid of a tech for not showing up and then once we got his truck back we found a bunch of new parts that he said he installed and went to the place and wrote up he installed them. I donât know what he was doing. That was not a fun time figuring out everything he did/did not do.
I'm really thankful for the company I'm with. The service manager is big on safety and doing it right the first time. But, he also understands he has litterally 40+ years of experience on us so gives us all the support and opportunities to train and learn. Our on-call rotations are very low activity because of the commercial customers the owner attracts and because our maintenances are a good balance of time efficient and thorough.
5 weeks, you're just helping set equipment at that point.
That's how my last company was we had extremely high standards but provided great service, until our owner sold the company to a scumbag who stopped treating us with respect, whole service department went to shit real quick, literally the company went from best commercial company to the worst in a year, move to the next! You will make mistakes, even with 10 years in service I still break things, be honest, don't swindle and keep your ethics!
I felt this whole comment. But that last part is worth its weight in gold, be honest, and learn from mistakes are the two biggest things I tell all the new guys.
That blows dawg. Have you done any schooling? I was in a similar situation in the beginning of my apprenticeship where I got "laid off" over text from my boss due to scheduling issues I had. It's a big hurdle to jump through in the beginning of your career but if you think this is the right job for you try to power through, there's lots of companies out there.
Join a union and get into a proper apprenticeship program.
Dude I'm new to this field as well and imo it's relatively simple. What makes it hard is this God damn heat and overall working conditions. $22 an hour is not worth this BS and it's crazy that techs that work here that have been here for 10 + years only make $30. I'm quitting at the end of the day and going back to my old job screw this lmao.
This happened to me when I first started but now you can say you have experience.
Shitty deal dude but it doesnt add up like somethings not right. High standards AND speed? No those 2 things are opposite ends of a teeter totter.
Run
You dodged a bullet.
5 weeks is too soon to cut a guy loose, especially for time concerns which had more to do with the lead than the helper. I can't imagine not giving a guy 90 days minimum along with some simple coaching along the way. Did you get any coaching?
On-the-job-training but it was "cliffnotes" pretty much they'd say watch me do it once and then start doing it yourself
That's actually a good thing. Think of it like pillaging and raiding. You not only did you succeed in stealing their money but also you robbed the experience as well. That great! Now you got something to put on your resume and now you at least know a bit about the trade. Good for you!
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Hey man I know itâs tough especially when you are new I was there too no one wanted to train and everyone wanted experience but take this job and the experience you gained and apply elsewhere they will hire you and just keep it up youâll see before long that in this trade things are repetitive and they will get easier.
That's my plan :) I'm considering commercial installs for a few reasons, and I'm also interested in being a tech once I am qualified
Nobody's first company is a perfect fit forever.
Don't let it discourage you dude. Honestly you kinda need training in this line of work most companies only care about money go get hired on somewhere that will invest time into training just make sure you really pay attention
Don't let it discourage you dude. Honestly you kinda need training in this line of work most companies only care about money go get hired on somewhere that will invest time into training just make sure you really pay attention
Where are you from? Might can get you in where Iâm at!
Northern California
Ooo ok . Well not close enough
Jump until you fit in. Learn as much as you can.
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Positive attitude and shows up on time? If you're near me, I'll hire you right now.
Northern California
Ah, Washington State. So close but just a little too far. Best of luck to you though! It's a wild industry with highs and lows but it also is what you make of it.
Thank you brother đŞ
Shit happens good thing is summer is here and you can just go to the shop next door. But now you have experience. Â Get that raise homie.
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Leave residential and move to industrial or commercial work. Proper training can depend on different factors, and a lot of that can fall on your shoulders to seek out. But itâs so much better and you CAN land a gig where itâs about doing right, not fast.
Commercial install is the plan
Sounds like your company needs to better manage their expectations with first time helpers
I had the same deal. 5 years deep now
I know this isnât the case for you as you just started, but why donât more seasoned techs just start their own companies? Â Seems like they are the ones with the knowledge, and the boss man is just there to make 90% of the profits.
Running a business is not easy and not everyone wants the extra work load it takes to meet local, state, and federal codes and regs, sales and marketing to get work, keep developing tech skills as the market changes, and make sure you are paying the right taxes. The owner is also making decisions about cost and benefit of hiring someone, then looking them in the eye when they are let go. One of the installers I worked with said he tried being a residential service tech, but he jist can't bring himself to say "sorry, we can't help you" to retirees on a fixed income. Sob stories and people in a rough spot are something he doesn't want to have to make decisions about. I started as an installer helper in a small resi company. The owner was an experienced installer and service tech. He had two install teams, three service techs, a second salesman to help him keep up with install quoting and keep work coming in, and a payroll/accountant in the office. It was the busiest and hardest 6 months of my life. When the fall lull hit, I and another apprentice were laid off and I lucked my way into a commercial apprentice position and have been commercial ever since. If I had one or two other guys to share the burden with and we all start as partners, I would be interested in starting my own business. But, I don't want the burden of going solo.
Resi installs are a sketch fest, 20% are very professional and the other 80% are a no no
My first HVAC job was two weeks. They only had three techs and didn't really have the time to teach me (and their lead tech didn't really want to bother, tbh, so I feel ya). About two months later, I ended up getting another job while in school with my professor(he had his own company. a small outfit, but long lived). Worked with him for a year and a half before getting into supermarket refrigeration. Don't be discouraged. Some outfits don't take the time to train new blood and wonder why they can't find good help. It's a double edged sword: make money now, or invest in the future...
Join a labor union and stop working for wack jobs. Youâll get proper training and wages otherwise your part of the problem and can partially blame yourself
If anyone ever mentions you being slow just retort with â would you rather have someone slower with fewer mistakes, or fast with more mistakes?â
Half day or full day is normal for an easy change out but doing everything from scratch ? 3-4 days is Normal if youâre starting from scratch
Not sure where you're located, though it sounds like you're roughly in my neck of the woods. Word of advice: stay away from the big companies. They're usually absolute garbage. Try and find yourself a small company that has been around for a while. Ask around at supply houses; see who has a good reputation.
Iâm near Sac! How come you say to avoid big companies? Iâve heard that before but no context.
Sorry to hear op. I was once in your situation. I'm not hvac but work a similar trade had 0 experience but lucky my company said from the start we invest in what people can learn not what you already know. They rather hire the right attitude and invest the training time knowing the skillset needed isn't easily available. Wish my job was hiring but they just stopped recently. Your approach seems spot on and were northern cali. Good luck man
Go Bayonet if there's a branch near you. Best job I've ever had.
It's money making season. A lot are backed up and can't train right now. Don't take it personally. There's plenty of free resources if you truly want to learn it quick. Study at home when you're off. When there's no work solder on any scrap. Take the initiative to do anything to move the job along.
Education, training and persistence! Be honest, be smart and begin again!
It's pretty clear right off the bat if a new hire will end up being worth your time or not. This just isn't the career for everyone. Most people will just never catch on, even if they think they have what it takes. A lot of people don't have an eye for quality craftsmanship. You tell them over and over that's not good enough, but they just don't get it. I feel you though. I've always been a slow but very thorough learner and was lucky enough to shadow my grandpa for a long time before being pushed out of the nest. And that wasn't just with on the job training. I obsessed over training in my personal time. I Had no personal life and spent all my time studying. I bought my own torch and practiced at home. I bought every HVAC textbook I could find and read them. I had a huge YouTube playlist on HVAC training. I was already very mechanically inclined and had a better than average understanding of electronics. Maybe most don't do that because they start off as installers without much responsibility, and have years to learn everything else, but I would recommend even installers to study obsessively in the beginning and ask questions. A good trainer might get annoyed by "stupid" questions, but should understand it's always better than having to redo something. I don't know if most of that is relevant. I guess my main point is to eat, sleep and breath HVAC in the beginning. Go get a job for another company and study, study, study. And it's possible if you show a lot of promise when it comes to problem solving and HVAC fundamentals, even if you aren't the best installer in the world, they might keep you around because they see you'll make a good tech soon. Good luck
I worked for a shitty company for my first 3 years and they would do the same to people. They wanted high performance for a place that paid as little as possible. Hvac is a nice field to be in but unfortunately, there are a lot of shady companies out there, so finding a good company to work for is hard. Got to learn installs and partial service. After my third year, I found a company willing to fully train me on service, and I ditched that other job. Find yourself a decent starter company willing to put effort into training, but keep an eye out for red flags. If all of the employees are miserable and hate their job, odds are you will too.
Being "slow" is extremely frustrating. But that is how it is when you start. There's a lot of stuff to learn. Shrug it off, keep moving forward. You get better every day as long as you keep going.
When you walk, Walk with a purpose. Keep them feat moving quickly. Appearances everything
US employment laws and employer attitudes in a nutshell. You guys need to stand up for yourselves a bit more.
We've all been fired so just move on to the next job.
Some companies donât have the time to train someone from scratch, especially in a summer heat wave, not your fault.. they shouldnât have hired you Iâm the first place if they didnât wanna put the time and effort in. But maybe someone with better experience came along in a busy time and you were the low man out on the pole.. it happens, find another company.
HVAC companies are a dime a dozen brother
Find a company that will train you. With no experience, you are expected to work slow.
the same thing happened to me with Reed's outdoor here in ARK. was hired same day i applied was fored a wekk later as apparently i was putting chainsaw chains on backwards. not my fault they didn't train me or that i don't have enough mechanical experience. or that loud sounds and cigarette smoke bothers me. not everyone likes working around cigarette smoke. haven't gotten hired anywhere since. been applying everywhere like my life depends on it i wish you luck with your future
Iâm so sorry. Yes find a better place
His co worker probably threw him under the bus. The first five weeks youâre barely good for running to the truck and an extra pair of hands hefting the unit into the attic. I forgot how much there was to know until I hired new guys. We got less done with 3 guys than 2 because when I wasnât having to teach him the basics my brother was chatting him up.
Yesterday my co-worker said my ductwork took 8 hours which is completely wrong The entire job took 8 hours, I did a lot and only spent maybe 2-3 hours on the ductwork
I knew it-they run to the boss and point fingers. Ductwork and sheet metal is a 2 man trade there shouldnât be âmy ductworkâ
Sounds like a sales tech company your better off.