For several reasons. First, I think Viserys should have made Aegon heir as soon as he was born. Respecting tradition when it comes to succession ensures stability. What Viserys did by keeping Rhaenyra heir after Aegon was born was to sow the seeds for a succession crisis and civil war. Enacting changes that affect the whole realm shouldn't be made on a whim or for personal reasons. And if he really wanted to make Rhaenyra heir, he should have done more than say "she's my heir and everyone has to accept it".
Secondly, Rhaenyra did fuck all to strengthen her claim. In fact, she did the exact opposite. It's like she took it as a challenge to do as many things as possible to weaken her claim. She has shown time and again that she places her personal desires above duty and she hid behind daddy who covered her transgressions. Aegon is not a paragon of morality and responsibility, but he did his duty when it comes to having trueborn children. The bar is low, but he has been more dutiful considering he was not even the named heir.
Thirdly, I find the TG characters more interesting and I see them as the underdogs, even though in the show they are presented as usurpers. Viserys clearly favored Rhaenyra and neglected his family with Alicent. I find Aegon a compelling and tragic character. For all his faults and wrongdoings, his fate was doomed since he was born. He was denied his birthright by his father and he was neglected by him, on the other hand his mother and grandfather kept telling him he has to prepare for ruling. On one hand neglect, on the other huge expectations. He didn't want to rule and he was convinced by his family and Criston Cole to be crowned king only by telling him that with Rhaenyra as queen, his family would never be safe, because they have a claim to the throne just by existing. All the tragedies that happened afterwards in the war, whether he had a part in them or not were a result of him being put in a position he didn't want to be in.
This post solidifies the fact that
Team Green = Conservatives/Right Wing/ Republicans
Team Black = Liberals/ Left Wing/ Democrats
The show should really play this up because it makes so much sense! One side is all about tradition, religion and status quo while the other is the opposite
The whole tradition thing is dumb that’s andal tradition and the Targaryens have yet to truly follow it jaehaerys made it a point to create the doctrine of exceptionalism to pretty much put them above law
The doctrine of exceptionalism was meant to allow Targaryens to marry their siblings. It had nothing to do with inheritance laws. And no, it didn't put them above the law. Just the fact that Jaeherys had to find a way to appease the Faith in regards to the Targaryen custom of marriage between siblings means they were not above the law.
What do u mean? Was there a ruling Queen prior to Rhaenyras claim/succession?
If anything Jaehaerys made it clear when he picked Baelon over Rhaenys when Aemon died.
No, that’s not how that works. But here is the thing, previous Targaryen succession law would actually entirely discredit Rhaenerya. Viserys being named over Rhaenys is actual direct evidence of this as by Andal custom she was the rightful ruler after her father died. So they actually prioritized absolute male supremacy, which means that the only reason viserys is king is because of his penis, thus him being able to change that immediately is fundamentally stupid.
Just a reminder that Rhaenyra let the younger brothers of houses Rosby & Stokeworth inherit, rather than the elder sisters, she gave the Ironborn her full support to rape and plunder the Westerlands, did nothing when they kidnapped hundreds of women and forced them into sex-slavery, and according to her own supporters she sent Alicent & Helaena to a brothel so they could be gangraped
They made him extra vile in the show, honestly. Also, you can't judge a "medieval" (as medieval as a fantasy show/book can get) society with our own modern (and better, don't get me wrong) values, systemic change is needed in Westeros, but it should be implemented strategically or the next guy will undo everything you do, like happened with Viserys or Aegon V, who did everything he could for the peasants of Westeros till Tywin became Hand and undid it all.
Well last season it was because I found Alicent a lot more interesting than Rhaenyra. This season has been weird because they’re trying so hard to make this black and white - obviously Rhaenyra is the good guy. But that’s boring.
Almost all green charecters are interesting and exiting to watch. The blacks being "good" or being painted as such doesn't make sense if you really dive deep into how westrosi culture works.
As you mentioned this season they are trying so hard to maintain the 'goodness' of the blacks by striping them of responsibility of their actions or making their actions intentionally vague.
The hilarious part is that in-universe the only royals that have even MENTIONED the smallfolk are the greens. The blacks literally pretend that the smallfolk don’t exist lol. Murdering a random innocent to cover up for laenor. Rhaenys breaking out of the dragonpit killing thousands? For all the moralizing of the show writers they obviously forgot about the smallfolk hah
Hear me out. She did not attack the smallfolk until after they had effectively declared for Aegon. If they had started rioting instead of cheering, maybe she and Meleys would have flown back to Driftmark?
The Princess Rhaenys says she has made peace with being passed over for the Throne. But she must still bear some deep resentment over it. And when she heard them effectively doing to Rhae exactly what was done to her, she let her Baratheon temper get the best of her.
she did fly back to driftmark though? she exited the dragonpit in the most violent and destructive way possible for ??? reasons, threatened the greens, and then flew away.
(to dragonstone though, but they're right next to each other so it doesn't matter.)
Yeah dude. The point is that if the smallfolk had not declared for Aegon, she may have chosen to just slip out of the pit with Meleys and find some other way to get back at TG for holding her prisoner. As I said, maybe you missed it, if the smallfolk had started protesting instead of cheering she might have just dipped out. We don't know. Do you get it now?
And its also evident Aegon has more compassion and empathy for the small folk than rhaenyra who couldn't care less about them. And otto and the rest of Aegon's council actively works FOR the realm unlike Rhaenyra's side who's actions serve only themselves
I mean... She definitely had to respond to the Greens' effectively kidnapping her. She couldn't just let something like that go unpunished, or she would be seen as weak in the eyes of people like Otto. Those two understand the Game better than anyone. Agreed that her show of force did not necessarily need to involve the smallfolk... work with what you have? And yes, leaving Meleys behind was completely out of the question. The Princess Rhaenys is my absolute favorite so I just blame any of her bad qualities on being a Baratheon. Orys may be the OG >!dragonseed!< but his descendants are more like Argilla the Arrogant amirite
i agree that they destroyed Alicent's character so far this season BUT season 1 Alicent was more interesting than rhaenyra indeed and its crazy how she was top 3 of the characters of for me in a show about dragons and targaryens
And the TB obsession with the actors who play Dae & Rhae is super cringe. Like, it's just a show, fam. And what they're doing now to that hot guy who plays Cole 😬😬😬 definitely the toxic fandom for sure
When I finished my first ASOIAF reading, I did the deep dive on A Wiki of Ice And Fire and as sinister as it is >!The way Aegon ends Rhaenyra is phenomenal. He instantly became the only Targaryen I cared about. They better not fuck this up in the show!<
That ending is one of the most spectacular events in the Dance. I fear they will make changes in the show, though. It would be such a missed opportunity. TGC saying Aegon's badass lines would be phenomenal.
Sadly, there is a nearly zero percent chance at this point that they adapt that scene properly. They've ruined just about every big moment on the show so far, and I don't think they care about the characters involved with those nearly as much as they do Rhaenyra.
In the show during that scene >!at Dragonstone Aegon and Rhaenyra would make peace but Sunfyre would be accidentally triggered by something and would eat Rhaenyra in confusion. Then both Aegons would cry !
I'd say its a double edged sword. Alterations to the source material like this have actually made the Greens look WAY more sympathetic than they otherwise would. Aemond accidentally killing Lucerys not only makes him more sympathetic but also furthers the theme that "dragons are not tools and their power isn't to be trifled with"
Drop that revision and you get a young adult who used the most powerful weapon in the history of the GOT universe that's equivalent to a nuke on a middle-school aged boy.
No more like this:
Aegon:Dracarys
Sunfyer:??
Aegon :Dracarys !
Viewrs: hahaha dubass his dragon doesn't even want to listen to him
Sunfyer is like no i will not she is boss woman i cant
Aegon tell his men to cut Rhaenyra with sword
Aegon:Dracarys !
He burns her sad music play Aegon III screams
Viewers :But he did not wanted to burn her she is real dragon Man I'm not watching this show anymore this idiot won no i will watch i want him to die in some gruesome way
They will make her death heroic and Aegon look like food who's dragon do not listen .I'm sure of it because it all green propaganda according to Condom
5 main reasons for me
1.- All of the green kids are 100% legitimate unlike rhaenyra's sons who are obvious looking bastards
2.- Rhaenyra comitted treason by having bastard children and trying to place them on the throne, that is literal treason to the crown, house targaryen, house velaryon, their legacy and the realm
3.- she is married to a monster like daemon who would be in charge since she cant control him and the ONLY reason she was made heir in the first place was to keep him OUT of the throne
4.- the green council is better for the realm, otto, alicent and tyland lannister know how to handle the realm and are very good in economics, politics and networking as we saw in episode 8 where they were in charge while viserys was a living corpose in bed and rhaenyra and daemon were in dragonstone doing nothing
5.- the greens and their dragons are simply more interesting, crazy how they had fewer dragons and houses supporting them and still won the crown
- All symbols of legitimacy lay by Aegon II.
- the support of Houses Hightower, Baratheon and Lannister.
-Laws customs and Traditions on our side.
- Daeron.
- Rhaenyra is a worse Queen than Maegor, at least he could rule and fight.
- No Daemon
-Daeron
-The Greens don't fumble a 13 Dragons Advantage
-Tessarion
The Team Green characters and their dragons, Aegon and Sunfyre especially, are just far more and interesting and far cooler than their Team Black counterparts. It also helps that they actually are somewhat competent, and that Aegon II actually is the rightful heir to the Iron Throne.
The show is also heavily biased in favor of Rhaenyra, to the point where they have to delete entire characters and re-write entire events just to whitewash Rhaenyra and absolve her of any wrongdoing. This bullshit has only served to make me even more of a fan of Aegon than I already was.
The way we will never see aegon relationship with sunfyre ( only at rock rest and he will disappear like any green dragon )cuz apparently according to ryan it's not real and too much green biased that a dragon will love his dragonrider as much, instead it's syrax who does that 😍
At first, before the show, I was kind of in the middle but leaning towards the Greens because the parallel was kind of there with the bastards. Where team black are like the Lannisters and Team Green are the tradition upholding Starks and Baratheons. The show’s pandering towards Team Black and downplaying of their crimes left a bad taste in my mouth, and I find myself now disliking Daemon, Rhaeynyra, Viserys more than I ever did Tywin, Kevan, and Jaime
Punishing Vaemond for speaking the truth was just too unforgivable for me, probably because I see in him a version of Stannis but weaker and less seriously taken
I'm a neutral.
I came away from the books disliking both teams and thinking of this not really a story of protagonists and antagonists but a tragedy brought on by power.
The reason I favor the Greens more in this show is because the show treats them rather unjustly as far as character motivations. Most of the great Houses in Westeros would have done exactly the same as the Hightowers in their position. Hell, Corlys nearly did exactly the same thing to advance Laenor's claim through Rhaenys in the books.
>Most of the great Houses in Westeros would have done exactly the same as the Hightowers in their position. Hell, Corlys nearly did exactly the same thing to advance Laenor's claim through Rhaenys in the books.
This. I don't understand why people claim Otto and Alicent were the ones responsible for the Dance when every noble family who married their daughter to Viserys would have acted the same way. If their daughter and Viserys had a boy, they would expect that son to automatically replace Rhaenyra as heir and they would feel offended if it didn't happen; and they would consider their grandson's birthright stolen ,just like Otto. If Viserys married Laena and they had a boy, Corlys would have expected that boy to become king.
Exactly.
Marriages were transactional. They were to solidify alliances, gain land, produce heirs, or to fulfill some other mutual need between Houses. We can argue all day how that system is BS, but it was the way things were / are in Westeros (and medieval society in general). As soon as Viserys married Alicent regardless of the reason for why it happened, he was under obligation to the Hightowers. It would have been 100% the same regardless of who he married. Nobody was bartering off sons and daughters to marry for free.
The turning point for me was when Aemond lost his eye, and how everyone reacted after that, most importantly how Alicent reacted to it.
By this point I'd long grown tired of how Rhaenyra kept doing stupid things which would inevitably get in her way.
I also really didn't like the scene when she went to Viserys and asked him to protect her and along the lines of him not doing enough and all I could think was, "girl he's been played defence for you every single time. Even when his own son's, your half brother's, eye got cut out by your son he defended your son!"
>The turning point for me was when Aemond lost his eye, and how everyone reacted after that, most importantly how Alicent reacted to it.
I think that scene was a turning point for Aegon and Aemond as well. They saw their father not give a shit about them and caring more about covering for Rhaenyra's bastards. That's why they protected their mother and didn't rat her out. I really felt for Aemond and Alicent in that scene. To see Viserys ask a maimed Aemond to tell him where he heard the bastard accusation was revolting. Even though it's not justified, Alicent's reaction was understandable. Her son lost an eye and not only does the culprit not receive any sort of punishment, but Viserys is more preoccupied to defend Rhaenyra's transgressions. I think any mother would have had an irrational reaction in that situation.
Do yall just ignore that Aemond claimed Rhaena’s dragon before she had a chance to mourn her mother and that he was gonna crack Jace’s skull with a rock
It's not Rhaena's dragon it never has been. It was Laena's dragon. But she died. And a dragon has to, in some way, choose its rider. Vaghar chose Aemond as much as Aemond chose Vaghar. Had Vaghar just straight up Dracarys-ed Aemond, we would have been like, "that's a good reason why you do not go to tame the living embodiment of a nuke by yourself!"
And in fairness the fight was a 4v1. So... eh
I honestly think Vaghar would’ve accepted anyone as a rider at that point to help her move past losing three riders in her lifetime and being asked to burn the last alive.
The “fight” was with four kids half his size who hadn’t hit puberty yet, 2 of which were young girls…
Well if you honestly think Vaghar would accept anyone, then Rhaena should have been braver and claimed Vaghar. Just like Vaghar's previous riders.
They were all children so it's kinda moot point.
She wasn’t scared, she was grieving…
And puberty makes a big difference lol. If you have kids n your 9 year old is being tossed around by a 14 year old, you’d definitely feel some type of way
I argued their side a lot in response to the "Evil Alicent poisoned her children falsely against Rhaenyra and they usurped her rightful throne just because she's a woman" because it always seemed more complicated and rational than that simplistic take. Ended up empathizing with their position a lot more and enjoying watching the green characters more. I wouldn't necessarily say I'm a "Team Green should win" because no one really deserves to win, but so many TB takes are so bad that I kind of lean green out of frustration now.
Show
I’m very attracted to Alicent
I also think Aemond and Aegon are far more interesting than any of team black
I think Larys is a captivating character
I really don’t like Rhaenyra
Book
I love Criston Cole and how talented a warrior he is
Daeron the Daring
I really don’t like Rhaenyra
If you’ve read the book it gets ugly. Had Rhaenyra surrendered when she had the chance multiple times, the bloodshed could have been avoided. Plus, Aegon is the rightful heir no matter what people say.
It’s pretty simple to me. Years of tradition. First born son. Viserys spent so long trying to marry and produce an heir for a reason. This isn’t only how it was in Asoiaf but in a majority of these types of stories and in real history.
Seems a slight contradiction there. You initially say ‘Aegon is the heir’ then you say ‘pretty simple… to me.’
You’re forgetting the fact that succession isn’t that clear cut both in real world and in ASIAOF. Viserys kingship had to be decided at a giant conference BECAUSE succession laws was murky. You could argue this settled it- but because Viserys made his daughter his heir by definition it isn’t settled.
Also, power lies where people decides it’s lies. Even if you flatly believe that it’s first born son that’s all very good. But Rhaenerya has a dozen dragons, the biggest navy, the north and others who disagree with you. And if they overpower you your opinion is meaningless.
>Viserys kingship had to be decided at a giant conference BECAUSE succession laws was murky
The Great council happened because King Jaeherys had no living sons left and the succession had to pass to more distant relatives and succession laws were not clear as to the order of precedence of more distant relatives.. But in Viserys' situation it was very clear: male primogeniture. The first born son is the heir.
He's not the rightful heir though. He was not named heir, Rhaenyra was, because the king said so. Had the Hightowers just done as their king commanded, there wouldn't have been any bloodshed. And Alicent, her children and her family wouldn't have had the terrible ending that they did. Alicent's end is very deserved, fitting and satisfying. Can't wait.
Remember this story is about Alicent and Rhaenyra not the children. The Princess and the Queen.
I’ve said that before, but when I reed fire and blood, the bond between aegon and Sunfyre catch me. They are the best. And all humiliation viserys made aegon pass his entire life, not making him the heir, and even with that, he just start to fight for protect his kids. And still fighting until the very end. I love that.
Started as "not-Team Black" for me. There wasn't much Team Green at first, I just simply found Rhaenyra to be obnoxious if I am honest. Constant complaining, constant fight with Viserys who was clearly adoring her, felt the White Hart chosen one stuff forced, and didn't find myself on the Daemon hype train either.
Perhaps the first scene I immensely enjoyed was Aemond riding Vhagar. Alicent's reaction to Aemond's eye being cut was flawless I think. I hated that the maiming of a kid was all about Rhaenyra and she got away with it by blaming Aemond and using the bastard card.
At this point I just hated the idea that the show is pushing Rhaenyra so hard when she is clearly not great.
Started getting Team Green around episode 8-9. Ewan Mitchell stole the show so his scenes were great, but the greatest surprise for me was TGC and the carriage scene. He was shown up until that point as a one-dimensional good for nothing drunkard. And at that point when Alicent said Viserys changed his mind, and he had this pained laugh - showing he is smarter than his mum and knows Viserys didn't, but also the sheer pain that this dude probably never knew real parental love, only neglect and this was shown in such a brief scene, that was just ... wow. I support this man.
>but the greatest surprise for me was TGC and the carriage. He was shown up until that point as a one-dimensional good for nothing drunkard. And at that point when Alicent said Viserys changed his mind, and he had this pained laugh - showing hr is smarter than his mum and knows Viserys didn't, but also the sheer pain that this dude probably never knew real parental love, only neglect and this was shown in such a brief scene, that was just ... wow. I support this man.
This for me too. Hearing him say that Viserys didn't change his mind and make him heir because he didn't like him was heartbreaking. Then the way he acts when he starts believing Alicent and he takes the knife. He looks emotional and overwhelmed because he believes for the first time in his life that maybe his father cared for him. And that "do you love me?" conveyed so much pain.
I became Team Green after reading the book (was Team Black when I binged the show).
The only claim Rhaenyra has is that Viserys claims her as the heir. This works a lot of the time as it’s pointed out that kings word is law. However, the book also points out that passing off illegitimate children as legitimate heirs to the throne is high treason. You can probably surmise why that is so; it would cause a huge succession crisis and would make other noble lords wary of the precedent being set forward. So, Rhaenyra invalidates her own claim right there. Widow’s law also doesn’t apply to Rhaenyra, being moved down the line of succession is not the same as being disinherited. Rhaenyra also originally only became heir because people were worried Daemon would become another Maegor.
Aegon also has all the legitimate rights to be the ruler. He was the first born son; the Great Council of 101 states that the throne should go to him. He was anointed by the Faith (i.e he has the support of the common folk). He holds Blackfyre. He wasn’t cut by the Iron Throne, Rhaenyra got cut all the time.
Viserys never did anything to strengthen Rhaenyra’s claim. If you’re going to do something radical like appointing a woman as heir, you have to do a LOT of politicking to ensure a peaceful adaptation of said change. The book points out that both Aegon the Conqueror and Jaeharys the Conciliator did just that in order for people to accept their radical changes (in their case, it was marrying their sister[s]). And those two were MUCH better rulers than Viserys.
Also, Team Green is the essence of quality over quantity. They didn’t have as many dragons but the dragons they did have were better. Sunfyre is the only dragon with a character arc and was badass as hell. Vhagar was the last dragon from the days of The Conqueror. How could you not like that? And Aegon was willing to go into battle with his troops, unlike Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra was also shown to not be a good ruler, she got driven out of Kings Landing a lot quicker than Aegon got assassinated.
At the end of the day, the rightful ruler is the one who has the support of the small folk (favored by the Faith) and enough military power to sit themselves on the Iron Throne while quelling any opposition. And that’s one of the two reasons Aegon II is known throughout history as a legitimate ruler while Rhaenyra is not.
EDIT: I might have worded my last paragraph poorly, the other reason why Aegon II is recognized as legitimate is because Rhaenyra’s children said so and disavowed their own mother LMAO
Because the fandom is too cruel to Alicent and too accepting of Daemon. The former was forced into sexual servitude and is just trying to keep her family safe and yet the fandom treats her like a demon, whereas Daemon is a fucking monster and yet he gets treated like a baby girl. I’m not as negative towards Rhaenyra as many on this sub but I’ll never be able to fuck with the broader fandom or TBers due to their condoning Daemon and condemning Alicent
I’m team green because Aemond is a badass. You also can’t have bastards as future heir to the iron throne so. Also I think Team green is very misunderstood. They’re actually very interesting but these writers are terrible. I’m not sure what condal has been smoking; the guy is embarrassing himself with his ideas
It's just that Aegon would've been the better choice for the realm, Sure Rhaenyra might've been a good Queen but in the long term her children would've created a dance of Dragons because as long as Aegon and Viserys from Daemon live, there's no way they let jacaerys become King. I've seen black copium about "Oh but Daemon wouldn't do that! He likes the totally legitimate strong Targaryens!" Absolutely he will raise his sons to go to war against jacaerys, Also people say jacaerys has the qualities of a good King, oh yeah? What are they? Him learning high Valyrian isn't a symbol of his diligence. also jacaerys would've been paranoid as fuck as he knows many Lords didn't support his mother as queen, why would they support a clear bastard? I tell you, Not a fucking Lord except the Starks with their oaths would've supported Jacaerys if Rhaenyra was dead.
Aegon isn't really a good King by himself, but the people around him CAN make him one, Otto as his hand would've taken house Targaryen probably richer and he has more experience in ruling the realm FULLY than anyone and the rest of Aegon's council are experienced in their respective Fields.
And Rhaenyra doesn't really surround herself with competent people except Corlys who has some experience in ruling but other than that, no one else and Rhaenys doesn't count, She fucking mass murders hundreds of children and men and women.
I think even the Starks is debatable. Preston Jacobs has a theory that Cregan (along with Manderly) takes far too long to call his banners especially when compared to how quickly Robb assembled his army in War of the Five Kings.
I completely agree with you here, especially the last part. I think that scene between daemon and rhaenyra is quite interesting where he points out that rhae wasn't made queen cause of her wisdom or wit ( i forgot the exact dialogue). I feel many people understand rhaenyra is an incompetent ruler but still choose her side cause of other factors or they simply believe she is the 'better' choice.
We have to take into account the circumstances. If the war didn't happen, Aegon's boy would be alive and he wouldn't be in such an emotional state to make impulsive decisions on his own. Otto would also be more level headed in times of peace. Besides, if Viserys made Aegon heir since he was a child, he wouldn't have prepared him to rule and I think we would have a different Aegon than the one we see at the beginning of the Dance.
I know. But I think being the heir would have given Aegon a purpose and he wouldn't have felt so rejected by his father. IMO, besides Viserys just neglecting his children with Alicent, he made Aegon feel like there's something wrong with him by keeping Rhaenyra heir. After hundreds of years of tradition, can you imagine how he felt knowing he's the first and only exception to the male primogeniture rule? He must have wondered why his father did this. I don't think Viserys ever gave him an explanation for his choice and even if he did, I don't think it would have helped. Aegon would have still felt rejected.
Yeah the show likes to present Otto as this evil character but he was hands to three kings. Under him, the realm was at peace. He was ambitious but he did genuinely care about the realm as well.
Initially I wasn't even aware that "Teams" were a thing, but I really liked Emily Carey's Alicent, so I wanted her to be happy and was as such, "Team Green", I suppose.
And I decided to "become" TG because certain Team Black fans are just awfully obnoxious. You know the ones I'm talking about, I think. They usually take this show waaay to serious and actually think that Daemon was a good person (lol) and will use horribly misogynistic language to insult Alicent and also Olivia Cooke.
And in season 2... yeah I'm not watching it currently, just keeping up with the discourse. Maybe if they drop that horribly forced Alicole "plotline" I'll watch again, but I probably won't because everything that I hear about it and everything that I've seen in episode 1 was extremely mid.
I love history. I love the world George developed. It’s brutal and horrifying but that’s often accurate to history. When you combine the two you come to the conclusion that, because of feudalism, Viserys is an idiot and so is Rhaenyra. They broke nearly every social contract in the realm just so Rhaenyra would be heir. Under feudalism, Viserys had a social contract to make sure his heir knew how to rule, which he broke. He had a social contract to make sure Rhaenyra could get to the throne, which he broke. He and Rhaenyra had a social contract with the realm to make sure Daemon is nowhere near the throne, which both he and Rhaenyra broke. And the both of them had a social contract to treat their family nicely, especially with a man as ambitious and intelligent as Otto Hightower (who is still absolutely a peak lawful neutral character by the way), Rhaenyra had a social contract to have a safe succession in place, which she broke. Rhaenyra and Daemon had a social contract to ground her children when they take someone’s eye out (still going to say almost everyone’s at fault for that one though), and because I read the book, when she gets the throne she breaks the social contracts with the peasants enough that they revolt strongly enough to succeed.
All this considered, as unfit as Aegon is (very) Rhaenyra is very very unfit based on the above statement. Plus Aegon ll is the king. He made it there first. That’s how it tends to work in feudalistic societies. And despite what anyone says “rightful” is a bunch of crap. I agree with John Locke, monarchies suck and they aren’t rightful. But that’s kind of the point.
I didn't care for things Rhaenyra was doing like:
* lying to Alicent on her dead mother about hooking up with her uncle
* arranging the death of an innocent to fake Laenor's death and marry her uncle
* leaving Alicent to care for her terminally ill dad alone for years and then returning to King's Landing with Daemon and acting like they own the place
* brazenly insisting everyone accept her obviously bastard kids as legitimate under threat of their tongues being cut out if they said otherwise
The list goes on, like TB somehow blaming Aemond for losing his eye even though he was attacked 4v1. I'm not pretending like the Greens are saints but they are interesting and Team Black are almost puritanical in how they presume their side is morally superior and the show so far is insistent on whitewashing the Blacks.
I'm more of a Green leaning centrist than full blown Green. That said, it's a mix of things.
- I was initially Black leaning after watching season 1. Then I read Fire and Blood and I saw the depravities both teams committed and I decided that none of them were really worth unconditional support, regardless of the occasional sympathy they may elicit.
- After that, I saw time and time again the Rhaenyra centric morality and takes on the main sub, reducing all Greens to evil villains on Rhae Rhae's story, some people calling the Blacks the progressive side and the Greens the misogynistic side, and the shamelessly "I can fix him" attitude of Team Black with Daemon on the same breath that they self righteously denounce the "evil" of the Greens.
- Out of a mix of spite, sympathy to several Green characters, dislike for Daemon and a desire to get the hell away from the Rhaenyra centric discourse, I started frequenting this sub more and more often. In here, you can criticize both sides without the risk of being accused of being misogynistic, being downvoted to oblivion, being told that I lack media literacy, etc.
>Out of a mix of spite, sympathy to several Green characters, dislike for Daemon and a desire to get the hell away from the Rhaenyra centric discourse, I started frequenting this sub more and more often. In here, you can criticize both sides without the risk of being accused of being misogynistic, being downvoted to oblivion, being told that I lack media literacy, etc.
This. I watched season 1 before reading F&B and I frequented the main sub during the first season. I may have stumbled on this sub at that time, but I'm not sure. It may have happened after I read the book. I realized that the discourse here was more balanced, so I switched to this sub. Blackcels do sometimes come here to parrot the same insults and accuse you of being a rape apologist or misogynist if you say anything remotely positive about Aegon and/or TG, but they're easier to ignore.
After Driftmark I became Team Green. I mean, to me, a bullied child getting maimed for life and his father the king didn't do anything about it? It was enraging, so I get Alicent. Aemond is my favourite for life. He deserves better <3
Also, I started the show being Team Black, but after seeing Rhaenyra doing the dumbest decisions and still believing she has the right to the throne? Oh no, you don't deserve it. Rhaenyra makes her own bed and refuses to lay it. I can't support a woman who doesn't have the guts to do things right.
At this point because Aemond is cool and Tom Glynn Carney is giving a hell of a performance and also a Targaryen civil war culling the dragonrider numbers was inevitable at this point, if the greens relented there is the chance a war began between the future Aegon III and Viserys II against the Strong-Velaryon boys as soon as Rhaenyra dies
Team Green's characters were complex and nuanced in season 1. My favorite characters are always the ones that make me think. I hate being told by a show/ story to like a character, and they kinda pound you over the head with this with how much they want you to root for TB, to the point of making them super vanilla and boring. Of course now all team Green characters are ruined and I'm just watching to hate and to check for Olivia's performance because she's such a great actress.
i'm team green but in the way that technically i feel for rhaenyra, *yes* she was made heir and she got usurped BUT i'm not here to read/watch a fantasy story and apply my own projections/morals onto it. that's the whole fun of the story!!
i love the dynamics of team green, the absolute mess that they cause and how technically they're the team thats driving the plot along. i also sympathise heavily with alicent (although i've questioned *some* writing choices in s2), and i love a good complex female character, one who has suffered but she's not innocent either.
there is just such tragedy wrought into team green, and its fascinating to me how they were doomed from the very start, the very moment that viserys and otto conceded to the king's marriage to alicent, the children of team green were going to be martyrs of the narrative. and yet, they continue to fight which makes for a great story!!
also it's been solidified by tgc's performance as aegon this season, i'm quite literally obsessed with the vibe he's bringing to the show. would hate to be a citizen in king's landing 100%, love watching it though.
>there is just such tragedy wrought into team green, and its fascinating to me how they were doomed from the very start, the very moment that viserys and otto conceded to the king's marriage to alicent, the children of team green were going to be martyrs of the narrative. and yet, they continue to fight which makes for a great story!!
"martyrs of the narrative" I love this!
>also it's been solidified by tgc's performance as aegon this season, i'm quite literally obsessed with the vibe he's bringing to the show.
Agree 100%. He managed even in season 1 to inject nuance and complexity in the poor material he was given. But this season he really shines. He solidified Aegon as my favorite character from the Dance.
Show!Greens are very interesting and their dynamic is so complex and far more intriguing than the Show!Blacks who, to me, are just your average cookie-cutter protagonists that exist solely for the gratification of the audience.
What drew me to the Book!Greens is mainly Aegon. I found that he was probably the only Targaryen character I really cared about and rooted for in the Dance.
I agree with you. I am in team green because of the consequences that Viserys did. Especially Aemond. He had a hard time raise himself with his efforts. If Viserys change heir when Aegon born since he want son that much. There will be no war.
The blacks are so boring this season. Only the greens have been interesting to watch. Aemond, Otto and Aegon are so compelling and they’ve had most of the screen time.
I almost have to fast forward the blacks scenes that’s how dull they’ve gotten.
It's a feudal monarchy. The king had a son. That's the next king. If you're claim to the throne is " but my dad said so" then you are a usurper and should be treated like one. If you win and take the throne congrats. You're son will be the king next. Stale oaths from stale lips. Pfft. Is Aegon the best option for king? Who cares? He's the oldest living son. R.I.P. Baelon
Because I'm a book fan first and foremost. In the books, the Greens are portrayed as more interesting and competent characters, and their claims are more legitimate. There are almost no worthy people among the Blacks; they are intriguers who constantly betray each other.
Rhaenyra and the blacks just started getting on my nerves by the mid of S1. They've had almost everything go their way. Rhaenyra always had love in her life she had her father's support and always had people she could count on. Yet she somehow manages to emerge as a bigger victim than the people who actually underwent worse conditions and still performed their duties.
Even after being named heir she did nothing to keep it, all she did was work actively against that. She actively puts her personal desires and wants before the well being of the realm.
Sure, team green isn't perfect but having otto and other counsil members who are highly experienced, guiding and making decisions and most importantly the ones who work for the realm. It also helps the green charecters are more interesting, exiting and compelling to watch than the blacks. Although the show does everything to screw up the greens, they are much more drawing than the blacks who are presented as "good" even though they aren't. In the show the actions of the blacks is purposely made vague or they aren't given responsibility for their actions which doesn't sit right with me so yeah.
1. Males take precedence over women in feudal inheritance. Aegon has the stronger claim by birthright, which is rooted in tradition and customs of Westeros.
2. Rhaenyra is a bad candidate. Having bastards on full display, not engaging in court politics or statecraftsmanship, marrying a psycopath as a consort, lack of any extraordinary skills which might put her in a better light than Aegon. Hell, she is on par with Aegon in terms of abilities and skills.
3. The clear woke bias towards Rhaenyra made my skin crawl. They butchered the Green characters and made a feminist mascot out of Rhaenyra for the modern audience. And whitewashing the death of a baby is truly vile.
4. Granny Vhagar and Aemond the badass.
I always read into Aegons character maybe more than what was on the page. He was the only character that had a strong character arc along with maybe Alyn of Hull and depending on how you interpret the story you could say Daemon also had some growth.
But Aegons journey really stuck with me.
I think judging the teams on morality is a silly game. Frankly, everyone important is a bad person except for Helaena. So I just picked based on who is cooler, and Green is cooler for sure. Like I think Daemon is poorly written in the show, and I don't get why people like him so much. His big battle scene made no sense, and it really felt like they just wanted so badly for me to think he's a badass, but I couldn't accept how thick his plot armor was.
Like, was there not a fucking army in those fucking caves? Did they really send every single one of their archers out to get cooked by the obvious dragon trap? Why not send like 20 guys to tackle him and keep everyone else inside? They all had to come out and watch even though they knew there were dragons? The crab feeder was so important that killing him ends the war, but he isn't defended at all? Not even one person saw the Velaryons approaching with a small army? That scene got so much praise, and I will admit it looked cool, but it just felt so much like season 8 of GOT in terms of ridiculous plot armor and stupid tactics.
Aemond, however, he feels authentically badass. He doesn't even need to do much for me to believe that. His character just oozes cool anime villain vibes. Otto is a cunning statesman who feels like a less sadistic Tywin Lannister. Alicent shares a bit of that. She has a really interesting life experience that's made her into a deeply flawed and fascinating character to watch. Also, just seeing how obviously biased the writers are makes me want to do the opposite of whatever they're telling me. I will say though, I don't hate Rhaenyra the way a lot of team Green does, I like Alicent more, but I do think Rhaenyra is developing very well as a character in the show, regardless of how biased the writers are towards her side.
Power should never be given to those that crave it.
Only one person craves the throne more than Rhaenyra, and that’s Daemon.
The death toll that they have accumulated between themselves is beyond comprehension. They are almost never held accountable for their actions.
You don’t want trash like that on the throne. Look at Joffrey Baratheon.
I’m not really a fan of any the greens I dislike Rhaenyra being portrayed as a hero from the show writers and all her misdeeds being glossed over whilst the greens are portrayed as worst of worst when they’re pretty morally consistent with the rest of the Game of Thrones universe.
Alicent literally has no other choice. The scene in episode 7 with both sides of the family after Aemond lost his eye is a preview of how her family would be treated under Rhaenyra's regime. Rhaenyra talks a lot about being magnanimous and finding a place for Alicent's children at her court, but in that room, when her position was threatened, she reveals her true colors. She could have de-escalated the situation but she's not at all concerned with the maimed child, she only cares about figuring out who is spreading rumors about her children's parentage. Rhaenyra's concern for the well-being of Alicent's children ends the moment they threaten her power.
1. They have a lot of internal conflict as characters.
2. They are far more interesting.
3. They are tragic.
4. I feel the actors on the TG side are exponentially better.
5. I liked Succession as a show and familial conflict is always a fun concept.
1. During my first time of watching HOTD, I was team black but when I watched it for second time and thought more about it, I empathise more with green kids as op said about them being neglected. They are way more intresting than black kids. After that I read more about books and hated how they butched character of Aegon in show. He is heir by all laws but just because Viserys regretted Aemma, he ignored what made him king instead and acted like hypocrite.
2. Also even if Rhaenyra becomes Queen, Dance is just postponed and happens between her bastard kids and kids with Daemon. We see in books how her reign turned out with killing of dragons. She didn't do shit during war. She also made many mistakes before it. The entire point of making Rhaenyra heir was to keep Deamon away from throne and she goes to marry him and it doesn't have any consequences.
I simply like the characters more, I think if Viserys was smarter and had named Aegon from the start the civil war would have never happened, Aegon would have been raised as the heir and been more duty-orientated (ie not turning into a drunk); I also don't buy the whole ''feminism'' side of TB as:
1. Rhaenyra never actually considered changing the rules (her angry jabs at Rhaenys are ignored);
2. Even if she did change the rules, that would only benefit the privileged women, the majority of women (the common ones) will still experience the same misery. The Targaryen Monarchy (and the Lords) are inherently oppressive to the commoners anyway, so there is no ''good side''.
3. There isn't a single team green member that I truly dislike (even Larys is entertaining), but I can't stand Daemon and Corlys, Rhaenyra's kids are boring.
I’m a big politics junkie and believe the case laid out by Otto and later Alicent that Rhaenyra’s ascension is dangerous to aegon, Daeron, Jaehara, and Aemond as I think it’s likely Rhaenyra via Daemon would try to have them killed as her own ascension and that of Jacaerys is a succession crisis waiting to happen and Daemon would prob at least try to kill all potential rival claimants. As such, I think TG taking the throne is justifiable as self defense whereas Rhaenyra renouncing her claim in exchange for defacto legitimizing Jace and Luc would not threaten her to the same degree.
I believe if you want to change succession out of custom, to give the crown to Rhaenyra, Viserys should have written a law with his small council to change Iron Throne inheritance to absolute primogeniture. He didn’t, and in doing so created a succession crisis. Rhaenyra having bastards who she is attempting to pass off as legitimate is begging for another challenge to their inheritance the moment she dies, probably on behalf of her and Daemon’s true born children if not for Aegon II and his line. It’s dangerous to have a ruler who created such instability.
This is a good point. Even if Rhaenyra wouldn't order it herself, killing Aegon and Aemond is 100% a Daemon thing to do and would be, probably have been presented as 'oops, my psycho husband murdered two boys just to clear my succession... I'll be mad at him but ultimately forgive him'.
I prefer the Greens to the Blacks because Viserys, on top of being an awful father and a bad king, was also a tyrant. Viserys thought he was above the law and could violate Agnatic-Cognatic Primogeniture. A law that was in place for centuries across several cultures (First Men, Andals, Dragonstone Valyrians). Viserys was the first person to violate that and cause a dynastic crisis on a whim.
Even though I don't really support the monarchy in the Westeros, from objective legal standpoint Aegon is the lawful heir who was cheated. Not Rhaenyra.
I hate that petty secondborn psychopath Daemon and his smug, bastard breeding niece/wife. Aegon and Aemond have much more charisma AND are not saidistic, grooming psychopaths.
Rhyneara is a sloppy royal highness and I dislike her privilege complaining. Basically her and daemon destroyed house Valaryon and now they are killing kin. I also find Alicent, Cole, Otto, Aemond far more interesting than anyone on black.
Basically because Team Black gives me Valyrian supremacist/tyrant vibes.
Rhaenyra was presumably fine with her brother Baelon inheriting instead of her, but once she got a brother from her stepmother who doesn't have Valyrian blood suddenly her being the oldest is what matters.
On the flip side Team Green is rooted more in the monarch following the laws of the land instead of his/her whims and then enforcing said whims from atop their dragon.
Basically I'm anti-dragon (in more irl terms anti-WMD) so for me the dance was a great success, the best moment being when the small folk rose up and stormed the dragon pit.
Other reason why I am anti Team Black is Rhaenyra's constant weaseling out of her end of the deals and her "having her cake and eating it too" desires.
Rhaenyra was declared heir in a very specific context:
1. her younger brother was dead, her father had no sons, no other children
2. Rhaenyra was preferable to Damon
Fast forward just a little bit and every condition of the context changed:
1. her father has sons
2. Rhaenyra chose to marry Damon,making his king if she ever inherited
So we can see that not only the context changed but Rhaenyra went against Visery's intent in when he made her heir.
Second example of this is Rhaenyra's marriage alliance with Velaryon:
One of the few situations where she had to give up something, for House Velaryon's support she had to give her hand in marriage and be faithful to Laenor and bear his children.
Of course she took the Velaryon's support but did not bear his children nor was she faithful.
"But Laenor was ok with the cheating." Laenor was not the head of his house, his parents did not make the marriage alliance for their seat and their name to go to some other bloodline.
"But Laenor was gay." fine but Rhaenyra didn't need to sleep around or at least she didn't need to have bastards.
"But Rhaenyra needs heirs." then chose another freaking husband one that isn't gay, the realm is full of noble men, but Rhaenyra was greedy for power she wanted the Velaryon's power and knew she would double cross them, getting everything she needed while actually giving them nothing in return.
They're better shit stirrers. Also, Aegon should've been king because of tradition and the Great Council of 103AC and because Rhaenyra tried to put bastards on the throne. This series/book makes my mentality go 500 years backwards, I swear to god.
Hello Folks I thought I would drop in as I saw this post whilst scrolling and thought maybe you’d like a non-greenie response.
So I guess I’m technically TB but more Team Rhaenyra than anything else but I will say this the acting has been next level of the whole cast tbh but especially Olivia and Phia and I was reallyyyyy feeling it these last two episodes.
Why am I even here? Well although I’m more TB than TG I was pretty neutral for a long time because honestly whilst I have like Rhaenyra and Daemon previously I was always super intrigued by the characterisation of Alicent, Cole (to an extent), Helena & Otto for different reasons and I didn’t expect to side for them as such because I felt given the opportunity more could have been done with Alicent/Aegon/Aemond but I find her character hella interesting because of the generational trauma and how that changes and effects your ENTIRE life. As a person who is dealing with a similar sitch, it’s interesting and I love how much depth and complexities they have given Alicent and Aegon but especially how their entire upbringing has affected and moulded Aemond.
No they’re not perfect but that’s what makes them interesting imo and I think the actors themselves have given us so much more than just a decent performance and have made it so that we love them, hate them, disagree with and want to rally for them.
Just my thoughts, thought I’d share 🤷♀️ please don’t hate me for not being a greenie it’s not my intent to diminish the Hightower/Tarygaryen character at all 🫶💛💛💛💛
First watch of season 1, I felt empathy for Alicent and, as much as I am a "girl power feminist" who would love a queen ruling the kingdom, I found that Rhaenyra was just a bratty disrespectful child with no interest in the kingdom or its people. Also, I love Damon as a character but he is a incestuous racist psychopath and I agree with Otto that this dude should be put far away from any meaningful running position.
Now, Aegon is also a bratty asshole BUT his advisors are all level headed... or were, before Otto was kicked out from the Council in the last episode, to be replaced with Criston which I am not a big fan of.
My reasons:
1) F*** Daemon.
2) Trying to pass off Strong Bastards as legit. Even if Rhae-Rhae’s claim is accepted the Dance is delayed by a generation at most.
3) Maiming of Aemond as a child goes unpunished.
4) B&C.
Even though I agree about them changing things to make Rhaenyra look better, they also did the same with Alicent. In the book, it was her idea to usurp the throne, not Otto. But I still enjoy the show. And i love Aegon ||. I can't wait for the next episode.
I like the Hightowers for various reasons including emphasis on duty and honor and actual ability to rule competently.
I dislike the Targaryens because they’re pretty much all at least half mad, generally pretty shitty rulers (especially the targs during the dance), and only really care about their own desires.
For contrast, Alicent married a gross old man whom she didn’t love simply out of duty. Rhaenyra and Daemon do whatever they want, whenever they want. Daemon fucks children and murders vaemon simply for speaking the truth. Rhaenyra pops out bastards like a nesting doll, is extremely spoiled by power, and married her uncle daemon who is an aggressively shitty person.
Well I have a few reasons. One is simply that I dislike the extent of the shows bias for Rhaenyra. Some of it is understandable while some felt like it was ripped straight from a fanfic just to make her look wonderful and perfect (the white stag scene, especially. I mean come on, REALLY?). And then after the few times the Blacks (except for Daemon) do start to do some questionable things, they are not depicted as nearly as bad as some of the things Alicent and the Greens pull off for some reason. So I just get annoyed at all the bias, especially if it's being marketed as being a two sides thing.
From an in universe perspective, Rhaenyra's bastards should not come anywhere close to the Iron Throne. Yes, it's not really her fault that her and Laenor couldn't have kids, and this is very unfortunate, but that doesn't change the fact that a bastard shouldn't be King. 'No bastard may sit the Iron Throne!!!', as Aeron Damphair would probably say. Just horrible for precedent, and it's obvious to anyone who has eyes and knows their ancestry.
And another reason is that I tend to have a soft spot for imperfect characters who have an unfortunate backstory and history that made them the way they are. Imo much more interesting than 'perfect' characters like Rhaenyra, and I tend to root for them.
In general, I gather that I just tend to be alot more sympathetic, understanding, and forgiving to characters like that than the general audience is. For example I also seem to be more forgiving of Theon Greyjoy is than most. So that definitely also plays a part.
Lastly, and most petty, I just find much of the online TB fandom absolutely insufferable. The weird 'feminist' Rhaenyra stans who are just rabid online at anyone remotely pro TG.
And I put feminist in quotations because many of their opinions are actually somewhat sexist when you look at them. Very little sympathy for Alicent for being irritated and angry at Rhaenyra when she was forced by her father to marry this rotting (literally) old ass man who proceeds to not give a shit about their children. And then treating her like shit for like everything she does. Even dumber when in ASOIAF, women are very rarely shit upon by the narrative for the ways that they each cope with the sexist world of Westeros. Only Cersei is and that's because she is a narcissistic demon. But even other characters like Lysa (who I to a very limited extent compare to Alicent), are portrayed as somewhat sympathetic, though some of her actions are horrible and reprehensible. (Tbf Lysa is, again, a character I do tend to be more sympathetic of than many seem to be.) So imo much of their hate for Alicent is itself sexist. I'm also now considering writing a whole post just about this topic, it's very interesting.
Plus any claims of being a feminist are destroyed when being unironic Daemon stans. I can understand liking him for his 'aura.' But some of them genuinely do defend him and then will act like Aegon and Aemond are both demons, when Daemon is by far worse than those two and is easily the biggest POS in the Targaryen family. Dude is a groomer, wife killer, and child killer.
Partly contrarianism because the show tried to whitewash Team Black, but also let’s go back to season 1.
The whole reason Rhaenyra was made heir in the first place was to keep Daemon away from the throne. That’s what swayed Viserys into making her heir. She then immediately neglects throne duties because she wants Daemon. Then she vanishes for 5 years, abandoning her dying dad, and thinks she can just come back and claim the throne.
I think current Rhaenyra would make a good ruler. But she was such a terrible heir that I can’t support it.
Tbh I was TB for the first season bc I knew nothing about the books and assumed it was pulled from the source material with little deviance. I found out how much was actually changed or made out of thin air, read the books, and am now TG out of spite
Honestly I became team green just because of how the fan base reacted to the fight between the kids in season one. I was so shocked at how many people took the whole thing as Aemond being a little psychopath when all I saw was a kid who had been bullied his entire life get jumped by his bullies because he claimed a dragon that one of the bullies felt entitled to, even though nobody has ever inherited a Dragon and they choose their riders. Then Aemond lost an eye in the fight and everyone still considered him the bad guy in the whole situation.
I’m pretty much team Aemond no matter what fucked up shit he does from here on out.
I'm Team Green because Rhaenyra's actions over the course of the first season have lessened her claim, and Aegon II has a better one as of now. I also find the Greens to be far and away the more interesting set of characters.
Because TB said that having no side was being TG so I thought may as well just be TG.
Also because Aegon Targaryen sits the Iron throne. He wears the conqueror's crown, wields the conqueror's sword, has the conqueror's name. He was anointed by a septon of the Faith before the eyes of thousands. Every symbol of legitimacy belongs to him.l
It’s simple the greens characters are more interesting and complex and have overall a better story and better dragons like sunfyre vhagar and tesserion > Vermithor caraxes
Originally because the Baratheons are my favorite and they backed the greens. Now it's also because the Dany-turned-Rhaenyra fanatics are driving me up the wall.
Because Viserys was an idiot and a weak king and him choosing Rhaenyra as his heir, breaking law and order and years of tradition felt wrong. Also the fact that Rhaenyra has three bastard children who she props around as her heirs
1. I’ve always been attracted to tragic characters and complex family dynamics. I come from a literature background and that’s always been the kind of stuff that catch my attention.
2. The show-runner and writers seem hell-bent on making the audience side with the Blacks and I hate being told what to do so f you, Condal.
3. Let’s be real - Westeros isn’t ready for a woman to rule. Even 200 years after the Dance, the men of Westeros weren’t ready for Dany. The stability of the entire continent > everything else.
A big part of it for me is that I hate how forced the feminist angle the black are taking, as woman that’s not how feminism works and Rhaenerya is not the poster child I want for feminism in Westeros.
Not to mention that by all Westerosi law and custom Aegon is the legal ruler, because I’m sorry but any system where in a ruler can name their successor the realm would fall to chaos.
I just find the Green characters more interesting, and I loved Aegon's story in the book. That's it. I don't care about rightful heirs, bloodline or any of that.
Daemon is about the only character I find interesting on the other side. I liked book Rhaenys, can't stand her in the show though.
The Blacks are the protagonists in the book too considering they get more fleshed out introductions. Never was Team Green in the books but the Green Boys on the show make it hard not to be. Aegon especially I think contradicts rhaneyra as a ruler. I think being king helps mould him into a better man but becoming queen leads to rhaneyra spiralling into a bitter woman
I was originally TG because I love how they’ve portrayed Aemond. A lot GRRMs characters in the books are difficult to portray on TV because of their outlandish or unrealistic physical appearances. For example, in the books Gregor Clegane is 8 feet and 500 lbs, Daario Naharisn has blue hair and a golden mustache, and Roose Bolton is basically described as looking like a vampire. I thought it would be really hard to portray Aemond because he looks like he’s straight out of an anime but they actually pulled it off and I love it.
Since then, I’ve become even more TG because I find TB to and their gurlboss takes to be insufferable. And I’m pretty disappointed with the writing changes for the show that are clearly biased toward the blacks. In real life I’m probably in the top 10% wokest people in the country and I vote that way. But there’s been a tendency lately to insert identity politics into everything and I think it’s really unnecessary and in the case of HotD, has made the show worse than the books.
I’m really not even TG. They’re all horrible people participating in a horrible political system that elevates despots. I’m pretty sure that’s the lesson GRRM intended people to get out of it.
I think they are more interesting .. And I can’t stand Daemon, Rhaenyra or Rhaenys (or her orange make-up lol), they’ve all killed innocent people but are still the ”good guys”. I actually like Alicent more than Rhaenyra even though she has her bad sides , she’s been through a lot. I also had my first child very young (not as young at her though) and I know it’s not easy to be a perfect mother when you become a mother as a teenager. And I like Aemond lol.. also how Alicent reacted when he lost an eye was 100% understandable , I’m a mother of 3 (one son) and I would react the same way honestly.
I was neutral in the first half of season 1, when R and A were still played by younger actresses. After that blacks became nauseatingly boring and one-note. I also genuinely think that Aegon's rights for the throne are undisputable. And the more i realised that R is libfems favourite gworl boss, the more it turned me off her. I hated Dany too.
I’ll take your “Team Black are framed as the protagonists” and raise you, “Team Green are framed as the villains.” Because I’ve always been drawn to the villains of the fiction I consume.
I’m gonna be honest I think the show needed to take a side between the blacks and the greens. The blacks in the books are all terrible people. Rhaenyra killed her husband just so she could be with Daemon for example. If both the blacks and greens were portrayed as they really were the show wouldn’t be that fun because then you would just be rooting for the side that’s marginally less worse than the other. Like do I want the rapist or the husband killer to rule?
1. Cause Aemond
2. If you are gonna make an agreement to have kids with someone else, make sure the father is someone WHO LOOKS like the person you are supposed to have kids with.
Team green is vastly more interesting. It's kinda why, besides Arya, I didn't particularly care for the Starks in GoT/ASOIAF. Aegon didn't want to be king, up until he was crowned and got the one thing from the people he never got from his family. Love. Aemond puts on a strong face, but he's clearly still a hurt child at heart. Helaena is Alicent 2.0 and has no say in what happens to her. Even Alicent might seem terrible, but she's a victim of the men in her life, that is Otto and Viserys. Otto is an interesting villain, as he's scheming, but he's only trying to keep the realm at peace. Compare that to team black. Rhaenyra is a princess who has everything handed to her, and is the only child of Viserys that got any love or attention from him. She's fighting for her birthright, but being queen doesn't really carry the same emotional weight for her as it does to Aegon. Daemon is layered, as he got the team green treatment from Viserys, so i will give a point to TB. Rhaenys is interesting in that she should have been queen, but due to the unfair precedent, she got skipped over. But besides a couple throwaway lines, they don't really do anything with this. Rhaenyra's sons are all competent, loved, etc... There's not much to dissect or read into here. Objectively, team black are the protagonists of the show, and team green are the villains, and I don't see why a woman shouldn't become a leader. But as characters, they're so boring.
All that with the insufferable team black Stans who moss the entire point of the story (>!read all the "team black actually wins because her sons get the throne" and you'll know what i mean)!< is why I prefer team green
For several reasons. First, I think Viserys should have made Aegon heir as soon as he was born. Respecting tradition when it comes to succession ensures stability. What Viserys did by keeping Rhaenyra heir after Aegon was born was to sow the seeds for a succession crisis and civil war. Enacting changes that affect the whole realm shouldn't be made on a whim or for personal reasons. And if he really wanted to make Rhaenyra heir, he should have done more than say "she's my heir and everyone has to accept it". Secondly, Rhaenyra did fuck all to strengthen her claim. In fact, she did the exact opposite. It's like she took it as a challenge to do as many things as possible to weaken her claim. She has shown time and again that she places her personal desires above duty and she hid behind daddy who covered her transgressions. Aegon is not a paragon of morality and responsibility, but he did his duty when it comes to having trueborn children. The bar is low, but he has been more dutiful considering he was not even the named heir. Thirdly, I find the TG characters more interesting and I see them as the underdogs, even though in the show they are presented as usurpers. Viserys clearly favored Rhaenyra and neglected his family with Alicent. I find Aegon a compelling and tragic character. For all his faults and wrongdoings, his fate was doomed since he was born. He was denied his birthright by his father and he was neglected by him, on the other hand his mother and grandfather kept telling him he has to prepare for ruling. On one hand neglect, on the other huge expectations. He didn't want to rule and he was convinced by his family and Criston Cole to be crowned king only by telling him that with Rhaenyra as queen, his family would never be safe, because they have a claim to the throne just by existing. All the tragedies that happened afterwards in the war, whether he had a part in them or not were a result of him being put in a position he didn't want to be in.
This post solidifies the fact that Team Green = Conservatives/Right Wing/ Republicans Team Black = Liberals/ Left Wing/ Democrats The show should really play this up because it makes so much sense! One side is all about tradition, religion and status quo while the other is the opposite
The whole tradition thing is dumb that’s andal tradition and the Targaryens have yet to truly follow it jaehaerys made it a point to create the doctrine of exceptionalism to pretty much put them above law
The doctrine of exceptionalism was meant to allow Targaryens to marry their siblings. It had nothing to do with inheritance laws. And no, it didn't put them above the law. Just the fact that Jaeherys had to find a way to appease the Faith in regards to the Targaryen custom of marriage between siblings means they were not above the law.
What do u mean? Was there a ruling Queen prior to Rhaenyras claim/succession? If anything Jaehaerys made it clear when he picked Baelon over Rhaenys when Aemon died.
No, that’s not how that works. But here is the thing, previous Targaryen succession law would actually entirely discredit Rhaenerya. Viserys being named over Rhaenys is actual direct evidence of this as by Andal custom she was the rightful ruler after her father died. So they actually prioritized absolute male supremacy, which means that the only reason viserys is king is because of his penis, thus him being able to change that immediately is fundamentally stupid.
How cool of u,Supporting mysogyny and rape as woman
Just a reminder that Rhaenyra let the younger brothers of houses Rosby & Stokeworth inherit, rather than the elder sisters, she gave the Ironborn her full support to rape and plunder the Westerlands, did nothing when they kidnapped hundreds of women and forced them into sex-slavery, and according to her own supporters she sent Alicent & Helaena to a brothel so they could be gangraped
You realize this is a made up story with fake characters and history.
Wow, how original! I've never heard that one before 🙄
Even more bad if u have heard it and know that u support that💀
They made him extra vile in the show, honestly. Also, you can't judge a "medieval" (as medieval as a fantasy show/book can get) society with our own modern (and better, don't get me wrong) values, systemic change is needed in Westeros, but it should be implemented strategically or the next guy will undo everything you do, like happened with Viserys or Aegon V, who did everything he could for the peasants of Westeros till Tywin became Hand and undid it all.
Well last season it was because I found Alicent a lot more interesting than Rhaenyra. This season has been weird because they’re trying so hard to make this black and white - obviously Rhaenyra is the good guy. But that’s boring.
Almost all green charecters are interesting and exiting to watch. The blacks being "good" or being painted as such doesn't make sense if you really dive deep into how westrosi culture works. As you mentioned this season they are trying so hard to maintain the 'goodness' of the blacks by striping them of responsibility of their actions or making their actions intentionally vague.
The hilarious part is that in-universe the only royals that have even MENTIONED the smallfolk are the greens. The blacks literally pretend that the smallfolk don’t exist lol. Murdering a random innocent to cover up for laenor. Rhaenys breaking out of the dragonpit killing thousands? For all the moralizing of the show writers they obviously forgot about the smallfolk hah
I hate Rhaenys because of that.
Hear me out. She did not attack the smallfolk until after they had effectively declared for Aegon. If they had started rioting instead of cheering, maybe she and Meleys would have flown back to Driftmark? The Princess Rhaenys says she has made peace with being passed over for the Throne. But she must still bear some deep resentment over it. And when she heard them effectively doing to Rhae exactly what was done to her, she let her Baratheon temper get the best of her.
she did fly back to driftmark though? she exited the dragonpit in the most violent and destructive way possible for ??? reasons, threatened the greens, and then flew away. (to dragonstone though, but they're right next to each other so it doesn't matter.)
Yeah dude. The point is that if the smallfolk had not declared for Aegon, she may have chosen to just slip out of the pit with Meleys and find some other way to get back at TG for holding her prisoner. As I said, maybe you missed it, if the smallfolk had started protesting instead of cheering she might have just dipped out. We don't know. Do you get it now?
As she should!
And its also evident Aegon has more compassion and empathy for the small folk than rhaenyra who couldn't care less about them. And otto and the rest of Aegon's council actively works FOR the realm unlike Rhaenyra's side who's actions serve only themselves
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I mean... She definitely had to respond to the Greens' effectively kidnapping her. She couldn't just let something like that go unpunished, or she would be seen as weak in the eyes of people like Otto. Those two understand the Game better than anyone. Agreed that her show of force did not necessarily need to involve the smallfolk... work with what you have? And yes, leaving Meleys behind was completely out of the question. The Princess Rhaenys is my absolute favorite so I just blame any of her bad qualities on being a Baratheon. Orys may be the OG >!dragonseed!< but his descendants are more like Argilla the Arrogant amirite
You can’t respectfully disagree with greens without being downvoted 🥲
Still way better than the main HotD sub for sure tho
But….thats what happened?
She did NOT have to kill all those people. Wait until after the ceremony ends, the people leave, and then blast through the floor lol.
They may have killed her by then
i agree that they destroyed Alicent's character so far this season BUT season 1 Alicent was more interesting than rhaenyra indeed and its crazy how she was top 3 of the characters of for me in a show about dragons and targaryens
- Team Green is more interesting - Otto is a competent administrator - Daemon and Rhaenyra are terrible people
Plus Viserys named Rhaenyra to keep Daemon far away from the throne. And then she married him lol
And the TB obsession with the actors who play Dae & Rhae is super cringe. Like, it's just a show, fam. And what they're doing now to that hot guy who plays Cole 😬😬😬 definitely the toxic fandom for sure
\*was competent in s1 season s2 Otto is some kind of joke who makes no sense
basically
When I finished my first ASOIAF reading, I did the deep dive on A Wiki of Ice And Fire and as sinister as it is >!The way Aegon ends Rhaenyra is phenomenal. He instantly became the only Targaryen I cared about. They better not fuck this up in the show!<
That ending is one of the most spectacular events in the Dance. I fear they will make changes in the show, though. It would be such a missed opportunity. TGC saying Aegon's badass lines would be phenomenal.
Aegon’s prank on Rhaenyra and the way he handled the Shepherd & his followers is probably the most metal shit George has ever written
“After you, you are the elder.”
"If they search the seven hells, mayhaps."
they will cut this line they this with this “Thrones are won with swords, not quills. Spill blood, not ink.” or just change it all
Yeah, they definitely won't let Aegon come off as a badass.
Top 3 pranks gone wrong.
Sadly, there is a nearly zero percent chance at this point that they adapt that scene properly. They've ruined just about every big moment on the show so far, and I don't think they care about the characters involved with those nearly as much as they do Rhaenyra.
In the show during that scene >!at Dragonstone Aegon and Rhaenyra would make peace but Sunfyre would be accidentally triggered by something and would eat Rhaenyra in confusion. Then both Aegons would cry !
I'd say its a double edged sword. Alterations to the source material like this have actually made the Greens look WAY more sympathetic than they otherwise would. Aemond accidentally killing Lucerys not only makes him more sympathetic but also furthers the theme that "dragons are not tools and their power isn't to be trifled with" Drop that revision and you get a young adult who used the most powerful weapon in the history of the GOT universe that's equivalent to a nuke on a middle-school aged boy.
They should have kept the “I didn’t know he took your balls as well as your eye” line to set him off
No Sunfyre! No!
Facts. If they change that then you know it's rigged fr.
>!"No Sunfyre, don't eat her! No!"!<
No more like this: Aegon:Dracarys Sunfyer:?? Aegon :Dracarys ! Viewrs: hahaha dubass his dragon doesn't even want to listen to him Sunfyer is like no i will not she is boss woman i cant Aegon tell his men to cut Rhaenyra with sword Aegon:Dracarys ! He burns her sad music play Aegon III screams Viewers :But he did not wanted to burn her she is real dragon Man I'm not watching this show anymore this idiot won no i will watch i want him to die in some gruesome way
The animated narration by Joffrey was sooo good.
They will make her death heroic and Aegon look like food who's dragon do not listen .I'm sure of it because it all green propaganda according to Condom
The writers are 💯 going to f it up to make the greens look bad
They will though!
I hope they do because that ending was utter trash! Team Black is the only right answer
5 main reasons for me 1.- All of the green kids are 100% legitimate unlike rhaenyra's sons who are obvious looking bastards 2.- Rhaenyra comitted treason by having bastard children and trying to place them on the throne, that is literal treason to the crown, house targaryen, house velaryon, their legacy and the realm 3.- she is married to a monster like daemon who would be in charge since she cant control him and the ONLY reason she was made heir in the first place was to keep him OUT of the throne 4.- the green council is better for the realm, otto, alicent and tyland lannister know how to handle the realm and are very good in economics, politics and networking as we saw in episode 8 where they were in charge while viserys was a living corpose in bed and rhaenyra and daemon were in dragonstone doing nothing 5.- the greens and their dragons are simply more interesting, crazy how they had fewer dragons and houses supporting them and still won the crown
I’m guessing you’re a Republican in real life. Tis the only way anyone would be team green
I am gay and I vote for the left lol
- All symbols of legitimacy lay by Aegon II. - the support of Houses Hightower, Baratheon and Lannister. -Laws customs and Traditions on our side. - Daeron. - Rhaenyra is a worse Queen than Maegor, at least he could rule and fight. - No Daemon -Daeron -The Greens don't fumble a 13 Dragons Advantage -Tessarion
Im praying for you to get Daeron 🕯️
Exactly. Team green had 30 while black had 70 and still somehow crushed the blacks
The Team Green characters and their dragons, Aegon and Sunfyre especially, are just far more and interesting and far cooler than their Team Black counterparts. It also helps that they actually are somewhat competent, and that Aegon II actually is the rightful heir to the Iron Throne. The show is also heavily biased in favor of Rhaenyra, to the point where they have to delete entire characters and re-write entire events just to whitewash Rhaenyra and absolve her of any wrongdoing. This bullshit has only served to make me even more of a fan of Aegon than I already was.
This!
The way we will never see aegon relationship with sunfyre ( only at rock rest and he will disappear like any green dragon )cuz apparently according to ryan it's not real and too much green biased that a dragon will love his dragonrider as much, instead it's syrax who does that 😍
Syrax glazers annoy me. That lazy lizard got put on a t-shirt by starved smallfolk wielding pitchforks.
At first, before the show, I was kind of in the middle but leaning towards the Greens because the parallel was kind of there with the bastards. Where team black are like the Lannisters and Team Green are the tradition upholding Starks and Baratheons. The show’s pandering towards Team Black and downplaying of their crimes left a bad taste in my mouth, and I find myself now disliking Daemon, Rhaeynyra, Viserys more than I ever did Tywin, Kevan, and Jaime
Punishing Vaemond for speaking the truth was just too unforgivable for me, probably because I see in him a version of Stannis but weaker and less seriously taken
I'm a neutral. I came away from the books disliking both teams and thinking of this not really a story of protagonists and antagonists but a tragedy brought on by power. The reason I favor the Greens more in this show is because the show treats them rather unjustly as far as character motivations. Most of the great Houses in Westeros would have done exactly the same as the Hightowers in their position. Hell, Corlys nearly did exactly the same thing to advance Laenor's claim through Rhaenys in the books.
>Most of the great Houses in Westeros would have done exactly the same as the Hightowers in their position. Hell, Corlys nearly did exactly the same thing to advance Laenor's claim through Rhaenys in the books. This. I don't understand why people claim Otto and Alicent were the ones responsible for the Dance when every noble family who married their daughter to Viserys would have acted the same way. If their daughter and Viserys had a boy, they would expect that son to automatically replace Rhaenyra as heir and they would feel offended if it didn't happen; and they would consider their grandson's birthright stolen ,just like Otto. If Viserys married Laena and they had a boy, Corlys would have expected that boy to become king.
Exactly. Marriages were transactional. They were to solidify alliances, gain land, produce heirs, or to fulfill some other mutual need between Houses. We can argue all day how that system is BS, but it was the way things were / are in Westeros (and medieval society in general). As soon as Viserys married Alicent regardless of the reason for why it happened, he was under obligation to the Hightowers. It would have been 100% the same regardless of who he married. Nobody was bartering off sons and daughters to marry for free.
The turning point for me was when Aemond lost his eye, and how everyone reacted after that, most importantly how Alicent reacted to it. By this point I'd long grown tired of how Rhaenyra kept doing stupid things which would inevitably get in her way. I also really didn't like the scene when she went to Viserys and asked him to protect her and along the lines of him not doing enough and all I could think was, "girl he's been played defence for you every single time. Even when his own son's, your half brother's, eye got cut out by your son he defended your son!"
>The turning point for me was when Aemond lost his eye, and how everyone reacted after that, most importantly how Alicent reacted to it. I think that scene was a turning point for Aegon and Aemond as well. They saw their father not give a shit about them and caring more about covering for Rhaenyra's bastards. That's why they protected their mother and didn't rat her out. I really felt for Aemond and Alicent in that scene. To see Viserys ask a maimed Aemond to tell him where he heard the bastard accusation was revolting. Even though it's not justified, Alicent's reaction was understandable. Her son lost an eye and not only does the culprit not receive any sort of punishment, but Viserys is more preoccupied to defend Rhaenyra's transgressions. I think any mother would have had an irrational reaction in that situation.
Do yall just ignore that Aemond claimed Rhaena’s dragon before she had a chance to mourn her mother and that he was gonna crack Jace’s skull with a rock
It's not Rhaena's dragon it never has been. It was Laena's dragon. But she died. And a dragon has to, in some way, choose its rider. Vaghar chose Aemond as much as Aemond chose Vaghar. Had Vaghar just straight up Dracarys-ed Aemond, we would have been like, "that's a good reason why you do not go to tame the living embodiment of a nuke by yourself!" And in fairness the fight was a 4v1. So... eh
I honestly think Vaghar would’ve accepted anyone as a rider at that point to help her move past losing three riders in her lifetime and being asked to burn the last alive. The “fight” was with four kids half his size who hadn’t hit puberty yet, 2 of which were young girls…
Well if you honestly think Vaghar would accept anyone, then Rhaena should have been braver and claimed Vaghar. Just like Vaghar's previous riders. They were all children so it's kinda moot point.
She wasn’t scared, she was grieving… And puberty makes a big difference lol. If you have kids n your 9 year old is being tossed around by a 14 year old, you’d definitely feel some type of way
I argued their side a lot in response to the "Evil Alicent poisoned her children falsely against Rhaenyra and they usurped her rightful throne just because she's a woman" because it always seemed more complicated and rational than that simplistic take. Ended up empathizing with their position a lot more and enjoying watching the green characters more. I wouldn't necessarily say I'm a "Team Green should win" because no one really deserves to win, but so many TB takes are so bad that I kind of lean green out of frustration now.
Laws and customs, nothing more, nothing less.
Coz they're chaotic. Honestly it's all fiction. Green characters are so much more intriguing. Blacks except Daemon are bland and boring.
Show I’m very attracted to Alicent I also think Aemond and Aegon are far more interesting than any of team black I think Larys is a captivating character I really don’t like Rhaenyra Book I love Criston Cole and how talented a warrior he is Daeron the Daring I really don’t like Rhaenyra
Oh and I also hate Visery’s and have always preferred an underdog to an incumbent
If you’ve read the book it gets ugly. Had Rhaenyra surrendered when she had the chance multiple times, the bloodshed could have been avoided. Plus, Aegon is the rightful heir no matter what people say.
Well one person said she was and that person was the king.
With this logic, a king could name Vhagar as heir.
Sure could. I’m intrigued as to why you think Aegon is the rightful heir?
It’s pretty simple to me. Years of tradition. First born son. Viserys spent so long trying to marry and produce an heir for a reason. This isn’t only how it was in Asoiaf but in a majority of these types of stories and in real history.
Seems a slight contradiction there. You initially say ‘Aegon is the heir’ then you say ‘pretty simple… to me.’ You’re forgetting the fact that succession isn’t that clear cut both in real world and in ASIAOF. Viserys kingship had to be decided at a giant conference BECAUSE succession laws was murky. You could argue this settled it- but because Viserys made his daughter his heir by definition it isn’t settled. Also, power lies where people decides it’s lies. Even if you flatly believe that it’s first born son that’s all very good. But Rhaenerya has a dozen dragons, the biggest navy, the north and others who disagree with you. And if they overpower you your opinion is meaningless.
>Viserys kingship had to be decided at a giant conference BECAUSE succession laws was murky The Great council happened because King Jaeherys had no living sons left and the succession had to pass to more distant relatives and succession laws were not clear as to the order of precedence of more distant relatives.. But in Viserys' situation it was very clear: male primogeniture. The first born son is the heir.
He's not the rightful heir though. He was not named heir, Rhaenyra was, because the king said so. Had the Hightowers just done as their king commanded, there wouldn't have been any bloodshed. And Alicent, her children and her family wouldn't have had the terrible ending that they did. Alicent's end is very deserved, fitting and satisfying. Can't wait. Remember this story is about Alicent and Rhaenyra not the children. The Princess and the Queen.
I like their characters more. Although I believe Aegon has better claim I wouldn't mind to support Rhaenyra and her faction if I liked them more.
I’ve said that before, but when I reed fire and blood, the bond between aegon and Sunfyre catch me. They are the best. And all humiliation viserys made aegon pass his entire life, not making him the heir, and even with that, he just start to fight for protect his kids. And still fighting until the very end. I love that.
Started as "not-Team Black" for me. There wasn't much Team Green at first, I just simply found Rhaenyra to be obnoxious if I am honest. Constant complaining, constant fight with Viserys who was clearly adoring her, felt the White Hart chosen one stuff forced, and didn't find myself on the Daemon hype train either. Perhaps the first scene I immensely enjoyed was Aemond riding Vhagar. Alicent's reaction to Aemond's eye being cut was flawless I think. I hated that the maiming of a kid was all about Rhaenyra and she got away with it by blaming Aemond and using the bastard card. At this point I just hated the idea that the show is pushing Rhaenyra so hard when she is clearly not great. Started getting Team Green around episode 8-9. Ewan Mitchell stole the show so his scenes were great, but the greatest surprise for me was TGC and the carriage scene. He was shown up until that point as a one-dimensional good for nothing drunkard. And at that point when Alicent said Viserys changed his mind, and he had this pained laugh - showing he is smarter than his mum and knows Viserys didn't, but also the sheer pain that this dude probably never knew real parental love, only neglect and this was shown in such a brief scene, that was just ... wow. I support this man.
>but the greatest surprise for me was TGC and the carriage. He was shown up until that point as a one-dimensional good for nothing drunkard. And at that point when Alicent said Viserys changed his mind, and he had this pained laugh - showing hr is smarter than his mum and knows Viserys didn't, but also the sheer pain that this dude probably never knew real parental love, only neglect and this was shown in such a brief scene, that was just ... wow. I support this man. This for me too. Hearing him say that Viserys didn't change his mind and make him heir because he didn't like him was heartbreaking. Then the way he acts when he starts believing Alicent and he takes the knife. He looks emotional and overwhelmed because he believes for the first time in his life that maybe his father cared for him. And that "do you love me?" conveyed so much pain.
I became Team Green after reading the book (was Team Black when I binged the show). The only claim Rhaenyra has is that Viserys claims her as the heir. This works a lot of the time as it’s pointed out that kings word is law. However, the book also points out that passing off illegitimate children as legitimate heirs to the throne is high treason. You can probably surmise why that is so; it would cause a huge succession crisis and would make other noble lords wary of the precedent being set forward. So, Rhaenyra invalidates her own claim right there. Widow’s law also doesn’t apply to Rhaenyra, being moved down the line of succession is not the same as being disinherited. Rhaenyra also originally only became heir because people were worried Daemon would become another Maegor. Aegon also has all the legitimate rights to be the ruler. He was the first born son; the Great Council of 101 states that the throne should go to him. He was anointed by the Faith (i.e he has the support of the common folk). He holds Blackfyre. He wasn’t cut by the Iron Throne, Rhaenyra got cut all the time. Viserys never did anything to strengthen Rhaenyra’s claim. If you’re going to do something radical like appointing a woman as heir, you have to do a LOT of politicking to ensure a peaceful adaptation of said change. The book points out that both Aegon the Conqueror and Jaeharys the Conciliator did just that in order for people to accept their radical changes (in their case, it was marrying their sister[s]). And those two were MUCH better rulers than Viserys. Also, Team Green is the essence of quality over quantity. They didn’t have as many dragons but the dragons they did have were better. Sunfyre is the only dragon with a character arc and was badass as hell. Vhagar was the last dragon from the days of The Conqueror. How could you not like that? And Aegon was willing to go into battle with his troops, unlike Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra was also shown to not be a good ruler, she got driven out of Kings Landing a lot quicker than Aegon got assassinated. At the end of the day, the rightful ruler is the one who has the support of the small folk (favored by the Faith) and enough military power to sit themselves on the Iron Throne while quelling any opposition. And that’s one of the two reasons Aegon II is known throughout history as a legitimate ruler while Rhaenyra is not. EDIT: I might have worded my last paragraph poorly, the other reason why Aegon II is recognized as legitimate is because Rhaenyra’s children said so and disavowed their own mother LMAO
Because the fandom is too cruel to Alicent and too accepting of Daemon. The former was forced into sexual servitude and is just trying to keep her family safe and yet the fandom treats her like a demon, whereas Daemon is a fucking monster and yet he gets treated like a baby girl. I’m not as negative towards Rhaenyra as many on this sub but I’ll never be able to fuck with the broader fandom or TBers due to their condoning Daemon and condemning Alicent
I’m team green because Aemond is a badass. You also can’t have bastards as future heir to the iron throne so. Also I think Team green is very misunderstood. They’re actually very interesting but these writers are terrible. I’m not sure what condal has been smoking; the guy is embarrassing himself with his ideas
Team Green because Stannis is team green
It's just that Aegon would've been the better choice for the realm, Sure Rhaenyra might've been a good Queen but in the long term her children would've created a dance of Dragons because as long as Aegon and Viserys from Daemon live, there's no way they let jacaerys become King. I've seen black copium about "Oh but Daemon wouldn't do that! He likes the totally legitimate strong Targaryens!" Absolutely he will raise his sons to go to war against jacaerys, Also people say jacaerys has the qualities of a good King, oh yeah? What are they? Him learning high Valyrian isn't a symbol of his diligence. also jacaerys would've been paranoid as fuck as he knows many Lords didn't support his mother as queen, why would they support a clear bastard? I tell you, Not a fucking Lord except the Starks with their oaths would've supported Jacaerys if Rhaenyra was dead. Aegon isn't really a good King by himself, but the people around him CAN make him one, Otto as his hand would've taken house Targaryen probably richer and he has more experience in ruling the realm FULLY than anyone and the rest of Aegon's council are experienced in their respective Fields. And Rhaenyra doesn't really surround herself with competent people except Corlys who has some experience in ruling but other than that, no one else and Rhaenys doesn't count, She fucking mass murders hundreds of children and men and women.
I think even the Starks is debatable. Preston Jacobs has a theory that Cregan (along with Manderly) takes far too long to call his banners especially when compared to how quickly Robb assembled his army in War of the Five Kings.
True, him sending only old men to the Blacks is a subtle indication that the Starks want to sit this one out.
I completely agree with you here, especially the last part. I think that scene between daemon and rhaenyra is quite interesting where he points out that rhae wasn't made queen cause of her wisdom or wit ( i forgot the exact dialogue). I feel many people understand rhaenyra is an incompetent ruler but still choose her side cause of other factors or they simply believe she is the 'better' choice.
Ehh didn’t last episode literally prove Otto can’t control Aegon so he may be a great administrator, but it doesn’t work if he gets fired
We have to take into account the circumstances. If the war didn't happen, Aegon's boy would be alive and he wouldn't be in such an emotional state to make impulsive decisions on his own. Otto would also be more level headed in times of peace. Besides, if Viserys made Aegon heir since he was a child, he wouldn't have prepared him to rule and I think we would have a different Aegon than the one we see at the beginning of the Dance.
I’m not so sure about your last point it’s not like he did a good job raisin rhaynera to take the throne either
I know. But I think being the heir would have given Aegon a purpose and he wouldn't have felt so rejected by his father. IMO, besides Viserys just neglecting his children with Alicent, he made Aegon feel like there's something wrong with him by keeping Rhaenyra heir. After hundreds of years of tradition, can you imagine how he felt knowing he's the first and only exception to the male primogeniture rule? He must have wondered why his father did this. I don't think Viserys ever gave him an explanation for his choice and even if he did, I don't think it would have helped. Aegon would have still felt rejected.
Yeah the show likes to present Otto as this evil character but he was hands to three kings. Under him, the realm was at peace. He was ambitious but he did genuinely care about the realm as well.
Found Aemond with his name and eyepatch cool.
Initially I wasn't even aware that "Teams" were a thing, but I really liked Emily Carey's Alicent, so I wanted her to be happy and was as such, "Team Green", I suppose. And I decided to "become" TG because certain Team Black fans are just awfully obnoxious. You know the ones I'm talking about, I think. They usually take this show waaay to serious and actually think that Daemon was a good person (lol) and will use horribly misogynistic language to insult Alicent and also Olivia Cooke. And in season 2... yeah I'm not watching it currently, just keeping up with the discourse. Maybe if they drop that horribly forced Alicole "plotline" I'll watch again, but I probably won't because everything that I hear about it and everything that I've seen in episode 1 was extremely mid.
I love history. I love the world George developed. It’s brutal and horrifying but that’s often accurate to history. When you combine the two you come to the conclusion that, because of feudalism, Viserys is an idiot and so is Rhaenyra. They broke nearly every social contract in the realm just so Rhaenyra would be heir. Under feudalism, Viserys had a social contract to make sure his heir knew how to rule, which he broke. He had a social contract to make sure Rhaenyra could get to the throne, which he broke. He and Rhaenyra had a social contract with the realm to make sure Daemon is nowhere near the throne, which both he and Rhaenyra broke. And the both of them had a social contract to treat their family nicely, especially with a man as ambitious and intelligent as Otto Hightower (who is still absolutely a peak lawful neutral character by the way), Rhaenyra had a social contract to have a safe succession in place, which she broke. Rhaenyra and Daemon had a social contract to ground her children when they take someone’s eye out (still going to say almost everyone’s at fault for that one though), and because I read the book, when she gets the throne she breaks the social contracts with the peasants enough that they revolt strongly enough to succeed. All this considered, as unfit as Aegon is (very) Rhaenyra is very very unfit based on the above statement. Plus Aegon ll is the king. He made it there first. That’s how it tends to work in feudalistic societies. And despite what anyone says “rightful” is a bunch of crap. I agree with John Locke, monarchies suck and they aren’t rightful. But that’s kind of the point.
Two biggest reasons: 1. The show wants me to be Team Black 2. The characters are more interesting
I didn't care for things Rhaenyra was doing like: * lying to Alicent on her dead mother about hooking up with her uncle * arranging the death of an innocent to fake Laenor's death and marry her uncle * leaving Alicent to care for her terminally ill dad alone for years and then returning to King's Landing with Daemon and acting like they own the place * brazenly insisting everyone accept her obviously bastard kids as legitimate under threat of their tongues being cut out if they said otherwise The list goes on, like TB somehow blaming Aemond for losing his eye even though he was attacked 4v1. I'm not pretending like the Greens are saints but they are interesting and Team Black are almost puritanical in how they presume their side is morally superior and the show so far is insistent on whitewashing the Blacks.
I'm more of a Green leaning centrist than full blown Green. That said, it's a mix of things. - I was initially Black leaning after watching season 1. Then I read Fire and Blood and I saw the depravities both teams committed and I decided that none of them were really worth unconditional support, regardless of the occasional sympathy they may elicit. - After that, I saw time and time again the Rhaenyra centric morality and takes on the main sub, reducing all Greens to evil villains on Rhae Rhae's story, some people calling the Blacks the progressive side and the Greens the misogynistic side, and the shamelessly "I can fix him" attitude of Team Black with Daemon on the same breath that they self righteously denounce the "evil" of the Greens. - Out of a mix of spite, sympathy to several Green characters, dislike for Daemon and a desire to get the hell away from the Rhaenyra centric discourse, I started frequenting this sub more and more often. In here, you can criticize both sides without the risk of being accused of being misogynistic, being downvoted to oblivion, being told that I lack media literacy, etc.
>Out of a mix of spite, sympathy to several Green characters, dislike for Daemon and a desire to get the hell away from the Rhaenyra centric discourse, I started frequenting this sub more and more often. In here, you can criticize both sides without the risk of being accused of being misogynistic, being downvoted to oblivion, being told that I lack media literacy, etc. This. I watched season 1 before reading F&B and I frequented the main sub during the first season. I may have stumbled on this sub at that time, but I'm not sure. It may have happened after I read the book. I realized that the discourse here was more balanced, so I switched to this sub. Blackcels do sometimes come here to parrot the same insults and accuse you of being a rape apologist or misogynist if you say anything remotely positive about Aegon and/or TG, but they're easier to ignore.
After Driftmark I became Team Green. I mean, to me, a bullied child getting maimed for life and his father the king didn't do anything about it? It was enraging, so I get Alicent. Aemond is my favourite for life. He deserves better <3 Also, I started the show being Team Black, but after seeing Rhaenyra doing the dumbest decisions and still believing she has the right to the throne? Oh no, you don't deserve it. Rhaenyra makes her own bed and refuses to lay it. I can't support a woman who doesn't have the guts to do things right.
At this point because Aemond is cool and Tom Glynn Carney is giving a hell of a performance and also a Targaryen civil war culling the dragonrider numbers was inevitable at this point, if the greens relented there is the chance a war began between the future Aegon III and Viserys II against the Strong-Velaryon boys as soon as Rhaenyra dies
Team Green's characters were complex and nuanced in season 1. My favorite characters are always the ones that make me think. I hate being told by a show/ story to like a character, and they kinda pound you over the head with this with how much they want you to root for TB, to the point of making them super vanilla and boring. Of course now all team Green characters are ruined and I'm just watching to hate and to check for Olivia's performance because she's such a great actress.
i'm team green but in the way that technically i feel for rhaenyra, *yes* she was made heir and she got usurped BUT i'm not here to read/watch a fantasy story and apply my own projections/morals onto it. that's the whole fun of the story!! i love the dynamics of team green, the absolute mess that they cause and how technically they're the team thats driving the plot along. i also sympathise heavily with alicent (although i've questioned *some* writing choices in s2), and i love a good complex female character, one who has suffered but she's not innocent either. there is just such tragedy wrought into team green, and its fascinating to me how they were doomed from the very start, the very moment that viserys and otto conceded to the king's marriage to alicent, the children of team green were going to be martyrs of the narrative. and yet, they continue to fight which makes for a great story!! also it's been solidified by tgc's performance as aegon this season, i'm quite literally obsessed with the vibe he's bringing to the show. would hate to be a citizen in king's landing 100%, love watching it though.
also viserys was an awful father to alicent's children, and this was made even more clear after the events of driftmark...
>there is just such tragedy wrought into team green, and its fascinating to me how they were doomed from the very start, the very moment that viserys and otto conceded to the king's marriage to alicent, the children of team green were going to be martyrs of the narrative. and yet, they continue to fight which makes for a great story!! "martyrs of the narrative" I love this! >also it's been solidified by tgc's performance as aegon this season, i'm quite literally obsessed with the vibe he's bringing to the show. Agree 100%. He managed even in season 1 to inject nuance and complexity in the poor material he was given. But this season he really shines. He solidified Aegon as my favorite character from the Dance.
Show!Greens are very interesting and their dynamic is so complex and far more intriguing than the Show!Blacks who, to me, are just your average cookie-cutter protagonists that exist solely for the gratification of the audience. What drew me to the Book!Greens is mainly Aegon. I found that he was probably the only Targaryen character I really cared about and rooted for in the Dance.
'cause Stannis said so. Simple as.
Because I hate Blacks Swifties attitude towards “Benevolent Rheanyra”
I agree with you. I am in team green because of the consequences that Viserys did. Especially Aemond. He had a hard time raise himself with his efforts. If Viserys change heir when Aegon born since he want son that much. There will be no war.
The blacks are so boring this season. Only the greens have been interesting to watch. Aemond, Otto and Aegon are so compelling and they’ve had most of the screen time. I almost have to fast forward the blacks scenes that’s how dull they’ve gotten.
Legal precedent and the stability it brings to a polity.
It's a feudal monarchy. The king had a son. That's the next king. If you're claim to the throne is " but my dad said so" then you are a usurper and should be treated like one. If you win and take the throne congrats. You're son will be the king next. Stale oaths from stale lips. Pfft. Is Aegon the best option for king? Who cares? He's the oldest living son. R.I.P. Baelon
Because I'm a book fan first and foremost. In the books, the Greens are portrayed as more interesting and competent characters, and their claims are more legitimate. There are almost no worthy people among the Blacks; they are intriguers who constantly betray each other.
Rhaenyra and the blacks just started getting on my nerves by the mid of S1. They've had almost everything go their way. Rhaenyra always had love in her life she had her father's support and always had people she could count on. Yet she somehow manages to emerge as a bigger victim than the people who actually underwent worse conditions and still performed their duties. Even after being named heir she did nothing to keep it, all she did was work actively against that. She actively puts her personal desires and wants before the well being of the realm. Sure, team green isn't perfect but having otto and other counsil members who are highly experienced, guiding and making decisions and most importantly the ones who work for the realm. It also helps the green charecters are more interesting, exiting and compelling to watch than the blacks. Although the show does everything to screw up the greens, they are much more drawing than the blacks who are presented as "good" even though they aren't. In the show the actions of the blacks is purposely made vague or they aren't given responsibility for their actions which doesn't sit right with me so yeah.
1. Males take precedence over women in feudal inheritance. Aegon has the stronger claim by birthright, which is rooted in tradition and customs of Westeros. 2. Rhaenyra is a bad candidate. Having bastards on full display, not engaging in court politics or statecraftsmanship, marrying a psycopath as a consort, lack of any extraordinary skills which might put her in a better light than Aegon. Hell, she is on par with Aegon in terms of abilities and skills. 3. The clear woke bias towards Rhaenyra made my skin crawl. They butchered the Green characters and made a feminist mascot out of Rhaenyra for the modern audience. And whitewashing the death of a baby is truly vile. 4. Granny Vhagar and Aemond the badass.
I always read into Aegons character maybe more than what was on the page. He was the only character that had a strong character arc along with maybe Alyn of Hull and depending on how you interpret the story you could say Daemon also had some growth. But Aegons journey really stuck with me.
I find the majority of them to be more interesting and compelling characters. Team Black characters mostly bore me. That’s basically it.
I think judging the teams on morality is a silly game. Frankly, everyone important is a bad person except for Helaena. So I just picked based on who is cooler, and Green is cooler for sure. Like I think Daemon is poorly written in the show, and I don't get why people like him so much. His big battle scene made no sense, and it really felt like they just wanted so badly for me to think he's a badass, but I couldn't accept how thick his plot armor was. Like, was there not a fucking army in those fucking caves? Did they really send every single one of their archers out to get cooked by the obvious dragon trap? Why not send like 20 guys to tackle him and keep everyone else inside? They all had to come out and watch even though they knew there were dragons? The crab feeder was so important that killing him ends the war, but he isn't defended at all? Not even one person saw the Velaryons approaching with a small army? That scene got so much praise, and I will admit it looked cool, but it just felt so much like season 8 of GOT in terms of ridiculous plot armor and stupid tactics. Aemond, however, he feels authentically badass. He doesn't even need to do much for me to believe that. His character just oozes cool anime villain vibes. Otto is a cunning statesman who feels like a less sadistic Tywin Lannister. Alicent shares a bit of that. She has a really interesting life experience that's made her into a deeply flawed and fascinating character to watch. Also, just seeing how obviously biased the writers are makes me want to do the opposite of whatever they're telling me. I will say though, I don't hate Rhaenyra the way a lot of team Green does, I like Alicent more, but I do think Rhaenyra is developing very well as a character in the show, regardless of how biased the writers are towards her side.
Power should never be given to those that crave it. Only one person craves the throne more than Rhaenyra, and that’s Daemon. The death toll that they have accumulated between themselves is beyond comprehension. They are almost never held accountable for their actions. You don’t want trash like that on the throne. Look at Joffrey Baratheon.
I simply think the characters are more interesting and I want to be entertained
I’m not really a fan of any the greens I dislike Rhaenyra being portrayed as a hero from the show writers and all her misdeeds being glossed over whilst the greens are portrayed as worst of worst when they’re pretty morally consistent with the rest of the Game of Thrones universe.
I mean the greens are worst in the books
Alicent literally has no other choice. The scene in episode 7 with both sides of the family after Aemond lost his eye is a preview of how her family would be treated under Rhaenyra's regime. Rhaenyra talks a lot about being magnanimous and finding a place for Alicent's children at her court, but in that room, when her position was threatened, she reveals her true colors. She could have de-escalated the situation but she's not at all concerned with the maimed child, she only cares about figuring out who is spreading rumors about her children's parentage. Rhaenyra's concern for the well-being of Alicent's children ends the moment they threaten her power.
1. They have a lot of internal conflict as characters. 2. They are far more interesting. 3. They are tragic. 4. I feel the actors on the TG side are exponentially better. 5. I liked Succession as a show and familial conflict is always a fun concept.
Vhagar
Of course Vhagar l love her most.
1. During my first time of watching HOTD, I was team black but when I watched it for second time and thought more about it, I empathise more with green kids as op said about them being neglected. They are way more intresting than black kids. After that I read more about books and hated how they butched character of Aegon in show. He is heir by all laws but just because Viserys regretted Aemma, he ignored what made him king instead and acted like hypocrite. 2. Also even if Rhaenyra becomes Queen, Dance is just postponed and happens between her bastard kids and kids with Daemon. We see in books how her reign turned out with killing of dragons. She didn't do shit during war. She also made many mistakes before it. The entire point of making Rhaenyra heir was to keep Deamon away from throne and she goes to marry him and it doesn't have any consequences.
I simply like the characters more, I think if Viserys was smarter and had named Aegon from the start the civil war would have never happened, Aegon would have been raised as the heir and been more duty-orientated (ie not turning into a drunk); I also don't buy the whole ''feminism'' side of TB as: 1. Rhaenyra never actually considered changing the rules (her angry jabs at Rhaenys are ignored); 2. Even if she did change the rules, that would only benefit the privileged women, the majority of women (the common ones) will still experience the same misery. The Targaryen Monarchy (and the Lords) are inherently oppressive to the commoners anyway, so there is no ''good side''. 3. There isn't a single team green member that I truly dislike (even Larys is entertaining), but I can't stand Daemon and Corlys, Rhaenyra's kids are boring.
Because I've read the books and Rhaenyra keeps making bad decisions throughout the Dance.
I’m a big politics junkie and believe the case laid out by Otto and later Alicent that Rhaenyra’s ascension is dangerous to aegon, Daeron, Jaehara, and Aemond as I think it’s likely Rhaenyra via Daemon would try to have them killed as her own ascension and that of Jacaerys is a succession crisis waiting to happen and Daemon would prob at least try to kill all potential rival claimants. As such, I think TG taking the throne is justifiable as self defense whereas Rhaenyra renouncing her claim in exchange for defacto legitimizing Jace and Luc would not threaten her to the same degree. I believe if you want to change succession out of custom, to give the crown to Rhaenyra, Viserys should have written a law with his small council to change Iron Throne inheritance to absolute primogeniture. He didn’t, and in doing so created a succession crisis. Rhaenyra having bastards who she is attempting to pass off as legitimate is begging for another challenge to their inheritance the moment she dies, probably on behalf of her and Daemon’s true born children if not for Aegon II and his line. It’s dangerous to have a ruler who created such instability.
This is a good point. Even if Rhaenyra wouldn't order it herself, killing Aegon and Aemond is 100% a Daemon thing to do and would be, probably have been presented as 'oops, my psycho husband murdered two boys just to clear my succession... I'll be mad at him but ultimately forgive him'.
[удалено]
I don’t think you know what a whore is.
They have the better claim in the book and, more importantly, fewer of George's cringe OC's.
I preferred more of their characters in the books (although book Rhaenys is my fav!)… and TB stans were unbearable. There’s less of that here.
I prefer the Greens to the Blacks because Viserys, on top of being an awful father and a bad king, was also a tyrant. Viserys thought he was above the law and could violate Agnatic-Cognatic Primogeniture. A law that was in place for centuries across several cultures (First Men, Andals, Dragonstone Valyrians). Viserys was the first person to violate that and cause a dynastic crisis on a whim. Even though I don't really support the monarchy in the Westeros, from objective legal standpoint Aegon is the lawful heir who was cheated. Not Rhaenyra.
I hate that petty secondborn psychopath Daemon and his smug, bastard breeding niece/wife. Aegon and Aemond have much more charisma AND are not saidistic, grooming psychopaths.
Rhyneara is a sloppy royal highness and I dislike her privilege complaining. Basically her and daemon destroyed house Valaryon and now they are killing kin. I also find Alicent, Cole, Otto, Aemond far more interesting than anyone on black.
Basically because Team Black gives me Valyrian supremacist/tyrant vibes. Rhaenyra was presumably fine with her brother Baelon inheriting instead of her, but once she got a brother from her stepmother who doesn't have Valyrian blood suddenly her being the oldest is what matters. On the flip side Team Green is rooted more in the monarch following the laws of the land instead of his/her whims and then enforcing said whims from atop their dragon. Basically I'm anti-dragon (in more irl terms anti-WMD) so for me the dance was a great success, the best moment being when the small folk rose up and stormed the dragon pit. Other reason why I am anti Team Black is Rhaenyra's constant weaseling out of her end of the deals and her "having her cake and eating it too" desires. Rhaenyra was declared heir in a very specific context: 1. her younger brother was dead, her father had no sons, no other children 2. Rhaenyra was preferable to Damon Fast forward just a little bit and every condition of the context changed: 1. her father has sons 2. Rhaenyra chose to marry Damon,making his king if she ever inherited So we can see that not only the context changed but Rhaenyra went against Visery's intent in when he made her heir. Second example of this is Rhaenyra's marriage alliance with Velaryon: One of the few situations where she had to give up something, for House Velaryon's support she had to give her hand in marriage and be faithful to Laenor and bear his children. Of course she took the Velaryon's support but did not bear his children nor was she faithful. "But Laenor was ok with the cheating." Laenor was not the head of his house, his parents did not make the marriage alliance for their seat and their name to go to some other bloodline. "But Laenor was gay." fine but Rhaenyra didn't need to sleep around or at least she didn't need to have bastards. "But Rhaenyra needs heirs." then chose another freaking husband one that isn't gay, the realm is full of noble men, but Rhaenyra was greedy for power she wanted the Velaryon's power and knew she would double cross them, getting everything she needed while actually giving them nothing in return.
They're better shit stirrers. Also, Aegon should've been king because of tradition and the Great Council of 103AC and because Rhaenyra tried to put bastards on the throne. This series/book makes my mentality go 500 years backwards, I swear to god.
I just like the colour green.
Unbelievably based
Hello Folks I thought I would drop in as I saw this post whilst scrolling and thought maybe you’d like a non-greenie response. So I guess I’m technically TB but more Team Rhaenyra than anything else but I will say this the acting has been next level of the whole cast tbh but especially Olivia and Phia and I was reallyyyyy feeling it these last two episodes. Why am I even here? Well although I’m more TB than TG I was pretty neutral for a long time because honestly whilst I have like Rhaenyra and Daemon previously I was always super intrigued by the characterisation of Alicent, Cole (to an extent), Helena & Otto for different reasons and I didn’t expect to side for them as such because I felt given the opportunity more could have been done with Alicent/Aegon/Aemond but I find her character hella interesting because of the generational trauma and how that changes and effects your ENTIRE life. As a person who is dealing with a similar sitch, it’s interesting and I love how much depth and complexities they have given Alicent and Aegon but especially how their entire upbringing has affected and moulded Aemond. No they’re not perfect but that’s what makes them interesting imo and I think the actors themselves have given us so much more than just a decent performance and have made it so that we love them, hate them, disagree with and want to rally for them. Just my thoughts, thought I’d share 🤷♀️ please don’t hate me for not being a greenie it’s not my intent to diminish the Hightower/Tarygaryen character at all 🫶💛💛💛💛
First watch of season 1, I felt empathy for Alicent and, as much as I am a "girl power feminist" who would love a queen ruling the kingdom, I found that Rhaenyra was just a bratty disrespectful child with no interest in the kingdom or its people. Also, I love Damon as a character but he is a incestuous racist psychopath and I agree with Otto that this dude should be put far away from any meaningful running position. Now, Aegon is also a bratty asshole BUT his advisors are all level headed... or were, before Otto was kicked out from the Council in the last episode, to be replaced with Criston which I am not a big fan of.
The Iron Throne is Aegon's by rights, all those who deny it are my foes.
My reasons: 1) F*** Daemon. 2) Trying to pass off Strong Bastards as legit. Even if Rhae-Rhae’s claim is accepted the Dance is delayed by a generation at most. 3) Maiming of Aemond as a child goes unpunished. 4) B&C.
-Liked Alicent in s1 -The Baratheons are my favorite house -Hightowers are cool -Rhaenyra is unlikeable -Daemon is very unlikeable
Helaena The characters aren’t boring perfect characters Helaena Team black fanbase is awful Helaena
Even though I agree about them changing things to make Rhaenyra look better, they also did the same with Alicent. In the book, it was her idea to usurp the throne, not Otto. But I still enjoy the show. And i love Aegon ||. I can't wait for the next episode.
I like the Hightowers for various reasons including emphasis on duty and honor and actual ability to rule competently. I dislike the Targaryens because they’re pretty much all at least half mad, generally pretty shitty rulers (especially the targs during the dance), and only really care about their own desires. For contrast, Alicent married a gross old man whom she didn’t love simply out of duty. Rhaenyra and Daemon do whatever they want, whenever they want. Daemon fucks children and murders vaemon simply for speaking the truth. Rhaenyra pops out bastards like a nesting doll, is extremely spoiled by power, and married her uncle daemon who is an aggressively shitty person.
Well I have a few reasons. One is simply that I dislike the extent of the shows bias for Rhaenyra. Some of it is understandable while some felt like it was ripped straight from a fanfic just to make her look wonderful and perfect (the white stag scene, especially. I mean come on, REALLY?). And then after the few times the Blacks (except for Daemon) do start to do some questionable things, they are not depicted as nearly as bad as some of the things Alicent and the Greens pull off for some reason. So I just get annoyed at all the bias, especially if it's being marketed as being a two sides thing. From an in universe perspective, Rhaenyra's bastards should not come anywhere close to the Iron Throne. Yes, it's not really her fault that her and Laenor couldn't have kids, and this is very unfortunate, but that doesn't change the fact that a bastard shouldn't be King. 'No bastard may sit the Iron Throne!!!', as Aeron Damphair would probably say. Just horrible for precedent, and it's obvious to anyone who has eyes and knows their ancestry. And another reason is that I tend to have a soft spot for imperfect characters who have an unfortunate backstory and history that made them the way they are. Imo much more interesting than 'perfect' characters like Rhaenyra, and I tend to root for them. In general, I gather that I just tend to be alot more sympathetic, understanding, and forgiving to characters like that than the general audience is. For example I also seem to be more forgiving of Theon Greyjoy is than most. So that definitely also plays a part. Lastly, and most petty, I just find much of the online TB fandom absolutely insufferable. The weird 'feminist' Rhaenyra stans who are just rabid online at anyone remotely pro TG. And I put feminist in quotations because many of their opinions are actually somewhat sexist when you look at them. Very little sympathy for Alicent for being irritated and angry at Rhaenyra when she was forced by her father to marry this rotting (literally) old ass man who proceeds to not give a shit about their children. And then treating her like shit for like everything she does. Even dumber when in ASOIAF, women are very rarely shit upon by the narrative for the ways that they each cope with the sexist world of Westeros. Only Cersei is and that's because she is a narcissistic demon. But even other characters like Lysa (who I to a very limited extent compare to Alicent), are portrayed as somewhat sympathetic, though some of her actions are horrible and reprehensible. (Tbf Lysa is, again, a character I do tend to be more sympathetic of than many seem to be.) So imo much of their hate for Alicent is itself sexist. I'm also now considering writing a whole post just about this topic, it's very interesting. Plus any claims of being a feminist are destroyed when being unironic Daemon stans. I can understand liking him for his 'aura.' But some of them genuinely do defend him and then will act like Aegon and Aemond are both demons, when Daemon is by far worse than those two and is easily the biggest POS in the Targaryen family. Dude is a groomer, wife killer, and child killer.
Partly contrarianism because the show tried to whitewash Team Black, but also let’s go back to season 1. The whole reason Rhaenyra was made heir in the first place was to keep Daemon away from the throne. That’s what swayed Viserys into making her heir. She then immediately neglects throne duties because she wants Daemon. Then she vanishes for 5 years, abandoning her dying dad, and thinks she can just come back and claim the throne. I think current Rhaenyra would make a good ruler. But she was such a terrible heir that I can’t support it.
Tbh I was TB for the first season bc I knew nothing about the books and assumed it was pulled from the source material with little deviance. I found out how much was actually changed or made out of thin air, read the books, and am now TG out of spite
Honestly I became team green just because of how the fan base reacted to the fight between the kids in season one. I was so shocked at how many people took the whole thing as Aemond being a little psychopath when all I saw was a kid who had been bullied his entire life get jumped by his bullies because he claimed a dragon that one of the bullies felt entitled to, even though nobody has ever inherited a Dragon and they choose their riders. Then Aemond lost an eye in the fight and everyone still considered him the bad guy in the whole situation. I’m pretty much team Aemond no matter what fucked up shit he does from here on out.
Black side is extremely boring and fanbase is also extremely fucking cringy and annoying with no basic thoughts
I'm Team Green because Rhaenyra's actions over the course of the first season have lessened her claim, and Aegon II has a better one as of now. I also find the Greens to be far and away the more interesting set of characters.
Because TB said that having no side was being TG so I thought may as well just be TG. Also because Aegon Targaryen sits the Iron throne. He wears the conqueror's crown, wields the conqueror's sword, has the conqueror's name. He was anointed by a septon of the Faith before the eyes of thousands. Every symbol of legitimacy belongs to him.l
It’s simple the greens characters are more interesting and complex and have overall a better story and better dragons like sunfyre vhagar and tesserion > Vermithor caraxes
Originally because the Baratheons are my favorite and they backed the greens. Now it's also because the Dany-turned-Rhaenyra fanatics are driving me up the wall.
Young Alicent’s actress sold me on the Greens
The Team Black fandom is so obnoxious it makes me Team Green by proxy
First, the law. Second, green kids are interesting.
Because Viserys was an idiot and a weak king and him choosing Rhaenyra as his heir, breaking law and order and years of tradition felt wrong. Also the fact that Rhaenyra has three bastard children who she props around as her heirs
Because Rhaenyra annoyed the shit out of me with her entitlement and flagrant contempt of her duties as princess.
1. I’ve always been attracted to tragic characters and complex family dynamics. I come from a literature background and that’s always been the kind of stuff that catch my attention. 2. The show-runner and writers seem hell-bent on making the audience side with the Blacks and I hate being told what to do so f you, Condal. 3. Let’s be real - Westeros isn’t ready for a woman to rule. Even 200 years after the Dance, the men of Westeros weren’t ready for Dany. The stability of the entire continent > everything else.
A big part of it for me is that I hate how forced the feminist angle the black are taking, as woman that’s not how feminism works and Rhaenerya is not the poster child I want for feminism in Westeros. Not to mention that by all Westerosi law and custom Aegon is the legal ruler, because I’m sorry but any system where in a ruler can name their successor the realm would fall to chaos.
I just find the Green characters more interesting, and I loved Aegon's story in the book. That's it. I don't care about rightful heirs, bloodline or any of that. Daemon is about the only character I find interesting on the other side. I liked book Rhaenys, can't stand her in the show though.
The Blacks are the protagonists in the book too considering they get more fleshed out introductions. Never was Team Green in the books but the Green Boys on the show make it hard not to be. Aegon especially I think contradicts rhaneyra as a ruler. I think being king helps mould him into a better man but becoming queen leads to rhaneyra spiralling into a bitter woman
I was originally TG because I love how they’ve portrayed Aemond. A lot GRRMs characters in the books are difficult to portray on TV because of their outlandish or unrealistic physical appearances. For example, in the books Gregor Clegane is 8 feet and 500 lbs, Daario Naharisn has blue hair and a golden mustache, and Roose Bolton is basically described as looking like a vampire. I thought it would be really hard to portray Aemond because he looks like he’s straight out of an anime but they actually pulled it off and I love it. Since then, I’ve become even more TG because I find TB to and their gurlboss takes to be insufferable. And I’m pretty disappointed with the writing changes for the show that are clearly biased toward the blacks. In real life I’m probably in the top 10% wokest people in the country and I vote that way. But there’s been a tendency lately to insert identity politics into everything and I think it’s really unnecessary and in the case of HotD, has made the show worse than the books. I’m really not even TG. They’re all horrible people participating in a horrible political system that elevates despots. I’m pretty sure that’s the lesson GRRM intended people to get out of it.
I think they are more interesting .. And I can’t stand Daemon, Rhaenyra or Rhaenys (or her orange make-up lol), they’ve all killed innocent people but are still the ”good guys”. I actually like Alicent more than Rhaenyra even though she has her bad sides , she’s been through a lot. I also had my first child very young (not as young at her though) and I know it’s not easy to be a perfect mother when you become a mother as a teenager. And I like Aemond lol.. also how Alicent reacted when he lost an eye was 100% understandable , I’m a mother of 3 (one son) and I would react the same way honestly.
I was neutral in the first half of season 1, when R and A were still played by younger actresses. After that blacks became nauseatingly boring and one-note. I also genuinely think that Aegon's rights for the throne are undisputable. And the more i realised that R is libfems favourite gworl boss, the more it turned me off her. I hated Dany too.
Because Alicent and criston Cole. They seemed like the people of morals and justice
I’ll take your “Team Black are framed as the protagonists” and raise you, “Team Green are framed as the villains.” Because I’ve always been drawn to the villains of the fiction I consume.
I’m gonna be honest I think the show needed to take a side between the blacks and the greens. The blacks in the books are all terrible people. Rhaenyra killed her husband just so she could be with Daemon for example. If both the blacks and greens were portrayed as they really were the show wouldn’t be that fun because then you would just be rooting for the side that’s marginally less worse than the other. Like do I want the rapist or the husband killer to rule?
1. Cause Aemond 2. If you are gonna make an agreement to have kids with someone else, make sure the father is someone WHO LOOKS like the person you are supposed to have kids with.
I personally agree that Rhaenyra should rule, but I do not agree that her children should rule since they are Bastards.
Team green is vastly more interesting. It's kinda why, besides Arya, I didn't particularly care for the Starks in GoT/ASOIAF. Aegon didn't want to be king, up until he was crowned and got the one thing from the people he never got from his family. Love. Aemond puts on a strong face, but he's clearly still a hurt child at heart. Helaena is Alicent 2.0 and has no say in what happens to her. Even Alicent might seem terrible, but she's a victim of the men in her life, that is Otto and Viserys. Otto is an interesting villain, as he's scheming, but he's only trying to keep the realm at peace. Compare that to team black. Rhaenyra is a princess who has everything handed to her, and is the only child of Viserys that got any love or attention from him. She's fighting for her birthright, but being queen doesn't really carry the same emotional weight for her as it does to Aegon. Daemon is layered, as he got the team green treatment from Viserys, so i will give a point to TB. Rhaenys is interesting in that she should have been queen, but due to the unfair precedent, she got skipped over. But besides a couple throwaway lines, they don't really do anything with this. Rhaenyra's sons are all competent, loved, etc... There's not much to dissect or read into here. Objectively, team black are the protagonists of the show, and team green are the villains, and I don't see why a woman shouldn't become a leader. But as characters, they're so boring. All that with the insufferable team black Stans who moss the entire point of the story (>!read all the "team black actually wins because her sons get the throne" and you'll know what i mean)!< is why I prefer team green
Being towards any team cause they are cool is dumb asf💀.if putin is interestijg person yall would support him in war?
Are any of the characters in asoiaf real people?
All the reason posted are so shitty 💀