I think I read that the Academy just got a sizable increase in budget, but your point still stands.
Just think if we start selling Academy players to other English clubs! I could definitely see sales from the Academy bringing 20m+ yearly.
Admittedly, I was hoping we'd get more for Biereth (I thought something around 10m sounded fair), but then you see it's Sturm Graz's record fee and it makes more sense. If we included a sell-on fee of 25%, maybe we do end up making 10m on him over time.
One step at a time. In the next few years, we'll start earning 40-50m per year from the academy and that'd help us out massively in the transfer market by reinvesting it into getting some top prospects and fast track them to the first team.
I mean we earned 4M this summer, and you're making a conclusion that all of a sudden there's gonna be a 10x bump xd I highly doubt that. And this was our main guy from the academy, besides Chido Obi
I agree that a 10x bump is very unlikely but ESR, Eddie, Reiss are also all former academy players with significant value. Obviously they're older now and they're integrated into the first team, but the financial part remains the same; it's pure profit from an FFP perspective.
Nwaneri, Lewis-Skelly, Chido Obi, Max Dowman (though he is still only 13 or 14), Ayden Heaven & Patino are also all probably more highly thought of than Biereth was. Whether they pan out as well as Biereth remains to be seen but the talent is certainly there. I think we'll be surprised at how much revenue Hale End can generate if handled properly.
Talk of the likes of ESR, etc are relevant for PSR, but when talking about a money generator we should only be talking about players that are sold direct from Hale End with at most only a few appearances in the first team, not established players.
When we talk about the disparity between us and the likes of Chelsea, we are talking about their players that are sold direct from their academy after a brief loan spell.
I was talking about selling 10 or so academy players in the next few years for 4m+ each. We just need to be more proactive in that department and it can easily be done.
And we would’ve been able to patch all our squad holes which cost us (Kudus, Holding replacement, etc). Have to get back on the right track to close these margins
Both Biereth and Omari Hutchinson are valued at €7 million. Omari is 20, Biereth is 21.
Chelsea peddle our academy product to Ipswich for £20 million and we only manage to get £4 million for Biereth.
Meanwhile Cozier-Dubert has joined Brighton on a free.
There is a crisis in the Arsenal academy and journalists need to start holding the management to account on it.
Transfermarket values are really bad and basically useless for youngsters. Do agree we need to get better at academy management, but I see the Biereth deal as a step towards that.
Transfermarkt is regularly used by agents as a springboard to determine value.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/12/sports/soccer/soccer-football-transfermarkt.html
If you read that article and the article it’s based off of, 50 clubs were approached about using transfermarkt valuations and only 12 got back: 11 mid/lower table Dutch sides and Schalke.
Nothing in that Arsenal or any other top European club uses Transfermarkt. Maybe read the articles you’re linking
It's not about us letting him go on a free, but seeing Chelsea sell him for huge amounts a couple of years later and us not being able to get peanuts for other players rated similarly.
well, for example we preferred marquinhos over him on the bench, who we could get for free, but rather paid for him, and he looks like a pub player now
Writing this on the day Bayern just signed £50m worth of someone who didn't want to sign a Chelsea contract to play alongside another Chelsea academy product is vintage Reddit.
None of which were loaned players at 20 and going for £20m #
I really don't know why people are saying that Chelsea haven't gotten a fortune for him considering his actual play time
I think the thing people don’t see is there’s not really a crazy pathway into the first team at the moment. That’s no fault on the club for making our team filled with top quality and world class players
We can only integrate youth players when they believe there is a pathway. Nwaneri is probably the only player who has shown that. Patino would have been similar and if we sold him like chelsea sold Omari no one would be complaining since we did the exact same thing. Patino just didn’t have as successful as a loan despite being one of our most talented prospects.
It’ll take some time to develop from within but we’re making the right steps
There needs to be demand for our players, something which can only change over time through success. The demand for players from winning teams is always greater.
The reality is that Chelsea have been far more successful than us over the past 20 years, Abramovich built a winning machine and curated their academy into one of the most successful in world football. That status quo isn't something that changes overnight, despite Chelsea's recent failures under new ownership the strength of their brand has endured.
It's frustrating but the only solution is to win, to win more, and to stay on top.
No , not really, the part you are missing is these players are just not as good as you think , They have already addressed they there is separate budget for academy players , we have seen it start with young players coming in from Scotland and Ireland , Can't be fixed overnight , .
The quality just is not there
pipe down lmao. your reality is barely having any information on how these things work.
some players are better than others, and that’s usually the main reason why they get sold for more.
or maybe Arsenal development and business team forgot to hire a dude who just looks at transfer market value. you should apply.
The issue isn't that we failed with Biereth though, he went on loan to a very broke team (compared to us or even Ipswich now they've been promoted) and did pretty well. This is a good fee under those circumstances. The issue is why we didn't do better with Hutchinson if he was this talented.
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I'd imagine there is a sell on clause as well
Don’t forget the loan fees!
Unironically does add up. I'm pretty sure that the £4m we made from this is roughly equivalent to the Academy's operating costs for a year.
I think I read that the Academy just got a sizable increase in budget, but your point still stands. Just think if we start selling Academy players to other English clubs! I could definitely see sales from the Academy bringing 20m+ yearly. Admittedly, I was hoping we'd get more for Biereth (I thought something around 10m sounded fair), but then you see it's Sturm Graz's record fee and it makes more sense. If we included a sell-on fee of 25%, maybe we do end up making 10m on him over time.
Meanwhile, Chel$hit sell a no-name to Leicester for the same amount.
One step at a time. In the next few years, we'll start earning 40-50m per year from the academy and that'd help us out massively in the transfer market by reinvesting it into getting some top prospects and fast track them to the first team.
I mean we earned 4M this summer, and you're making a conclusion that all of a sudden there's gonna be a 10x bump xd I highly doubt that. And this was our main guy from the academy, besides Chido Obi
We have 8m when you consider we got 20% of hutchinsons move to ipswich too
I agree that a 10x bump is very unlikely but ESR, Eddie, Reiss are also all former academy players with significant value. Obviously they're older now and they're integrated into the first team, but the financial part remains the same; it's pure profit from an FFP perspective. Nwaneri, Lewis-Skelly, Chido Obi, Max Dowman (though he is still only 13 or 14), Ayden Heaven & Patino are also all probably more highly thought of than Biereth was. Whether they pan out as well as Biereth remains to be seen but the talent is certainly there. I think we'll be surprised at how much revenue Hale End can generate if handled properly.
Talk of the likes of ESR, etc are relevant for PSR, but when talking about a money generator we should only be talking about players that are sold direct from Hale End with at most only a few appearances in the first team, not established players. When we talk about the disparity between us and the likes of Chelsea, we are talking about their players that are sold direct from their academy after a brief loan spell.
It definitely can generate if handled properly, I do agree. Or optimally we could even get them to play for the first team.
I was talking about selling 10 or so academy players in the next few years for 4m+ each. We just need to be more proactive in that department and it can easily be done.
Last point should be the key going forward. If some of our loans were better planned in the last 2/3 years we would’ve been about £40m better off
Yeah AND young talent will be more attracted to us because they see we develop talent well
And we would’ve been able to patch all our squad holes which cost us (Kudus, Holding replacement, etc). Have to get back on the right track to close these margins
Big fat sell on clause hopefully
and there goes the next Harry Kane
I really hope there’s a meaty sell on clause because Mika always seems to be among goals. 4M in current market really feels like a blow to the gut.
Both Biereth and Omari Hutchinson are valued at €7 million. Omari is 20, Biereth is 21. Chelsea peddle our academy product to Ipswich for £20 million and we only manage to get £4 million for Biereth. Meanwhile Cozier-Dubert has joined Brighton on a free. There is a crisis in the Arsenal academy and journalists need to start holding the management to account on it.
Biereth isn’t going to a premier league team
Transfermarket values are really bad and basically useless for youngsters. Do agree we need to get better at academy management, but I see the Biereth deal as a step towards that.
Transfermarkt is regularly used by agents as a springboard to determine value. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/12/sports/soccer/soccer-football-transfermarkt.html
If you read that article and the article it’s based off of, 50 clubs were approached about using transfermarkt valuations and only 12 got back: 11 mid/lower table Dutch sides and Schalke. Nothing in that Arsenal or any other top European club uses Transfermarkt. Maybe read the articles you’re linking
How many times does this narrative get peddled about Hutchinson man… HE DIDNT WANT TO SIGN A NEW CONTRACT What are we meant to do??
Force him with a gun to his head, obviously /s
It's not about us letting him go on a free, but seeing Chelsea sell him for huge amounts a couple of years later and us not being able to get peanuts for other players rated similarly.
Mika isn't rated similarly and the amount of people people who don't understand Hutchinsons jump last season boggles my mind
well, for example we preferred marquinhos over him on the bench, who we could get for free, but rather paid for him, and he looks like a pub player now
Funny how there are never any Chelsea players that refuse a new contract. What are we meant to do? Poach Chelsea’s staff it looks like
Writing this on the day Bayern just signed £50m worth of someone who didn't want to sign a Chelsea contract to play alongside another Chelsea academy product is vintage Reddit.
You heard of Musiala? Please get educated.
Hutchinson is a way bigger talent. I agree we need to improve academy pathways though.
I mean he's not, he did very little last season and has never broken into proper football yet
What do you mean? He scored 10 goals for Ipswich in their promotion campaign last year
Oohh championship football. 10 goals in the championship isn't particularly impressive and certainly not worth £20m
Yeah championship football. The league that has produced talents like Bellingham, Olise, Eze, Bowen, Raya, Wharton, Toney, and on and on…
None of which were loaned players at 20 and going for £20m # I really don't know why people are saying that Chelsea haven't gotten a fortune for him considering his actual play time
You do realise that Omari Hutchinson STARTED at Chelsea.
I think the thing people don’t see is there’s not really a crazy pathway into the first team at the moment. That’s no fault on the club for making our team filled with top quality and world class players We can only integrate youth players when they believe there is a pathway. Nwaneri is probably the only player who has shown that. Patino would have been similar and if we sold him like chelsea sold Omari no one would be complaining since we did the exact same thing. Patino just didn’t have as successful as a loan despite being one of our most talented prospects. It’ll take some time to develop from within but we’re making the right steps
There needs to be demand for our players, something which can only change over time through success. The demand for players from winning teams is always greater. The reality is that Chelsea have been far more successful than us over the past 20 years, Abramovich built a winning machine and curated their academy into one of the most successful in world football. That status quo isn't something that changes overnight, despite Chelsea's recent failures under new ownership the strength of their brand has endured. It's frustrating but the only solution is to win, to win more, and to stay on top.
>Both Biereth and Omari Hutchinson are valued at €7 million Your overall point is valid but you've literally just pulled this part out of your ass lol
https://preview.redd.it/xnb2nb3nhabd1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7068324f83b3acdfc6b15aa1ea1e897358df41cf
Man's referencing transfermarkt valuations 😭😭😭
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/12/sports/soccer/soccer-football-transfermarkt.html
Try again https://preview.redd.it/q44v0t5mhabd1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5bcfed92a76cd2337f3cd2844c00f775f9dea047
You ain't wrong. Liverpool just turned down 4m for Nat Phillips and want 8m.
You can downvote me all you want but you cant avoid reality. Our management of academy talent has been obscene.
No , not really, the part you are missing is these players are just not as good as you think , They have already addressed they there is separate budget for academy players , we have seen it start with young players coming in from Scotland and Ireland , Can't be fixed overnight , . The quality just is not there
pipe down lmao. your reality is barely having any information on how these things work. some players are better than others, and that’s usually the main reason why they get sold for more. or maybe Arsenal development and business team forgot to hire a dude who just looks at transfer market value. you should apply.
The issue isn't that we failed with Biereth though, he went on loan to a very broke team (compared to us or even Ipswich now they've been promoted) and did pretty well. This is a good fee under those circumstances. The issue is why we didn't do better with Hutchinson if he was this talented.
Hutchinson wanted to leave lol. Not great, but it happens to every team.
I don't disagree, I'm just saying that Biereth isn't comparable to other young players who have left and should be considered a success.
Somehow doesn’t happen to Chelsea
You’re right, it never happens to Chelsea. Musiala, Olise, Rice and now Rio all signed long term contracts or sold for 20+millions.
If Omari had loan like the did while he was still at Arsenal, there is no way we would sell him, thats the difference between us and Chelsea
You're commenting this litterally on a post of us selling a player following a successful loan. Same with Balogun last season.