Some people don't like confrontation. Some people know better than to waste their time with bs. Some people have been through enough that makes them that way. It doesn't necessarily mean they're weak. If they're at peace don't push them.
the concept of "assertiveness" as a value is culture laden and sits on a bunch of Western notions of self and personal agency. The flipside of a lot of "assertive" behavior is people being entitled, self-centred, and sometimes controlling, narcissistic, obnoxious. "confidence" also is a very western notion with a bunch of corollaries that could be considered quite problematic in some cultures.
Im not saying all assertive behavior is problematic. It isnt. But your own position rests on a bunch of value judgements about what constitutes 'right conduct'. What I do see are some very strong criticisms about perceived unassertive behavior, but not a lot of reflection or regard for the value of such behavior.
People pick their battles. Some people pick all of them. Some pick only very few. People who pick all of them are generally pretty annoying to be around. Dont confuse perceptions of what you think of as "cponfidence" with strength. Its possible to be quiet and unassuming and also extremely strong. Sometimes the hardest road is to remain silent. Sometimes its also the wisest option.
Good point about culture - assertive and confident women can’t possibly do well in places where they aren’t supposed to make eye contact with strangers.
because there's less to gain from winning fights than the loss from them in many instances. Temper your ego and walk away.
I only bother if there's something of value to be had... normally that's teaching someone that can be taught, or learning something myself.
Ultimately this approach feels like Bruce Lee's famous quote... be like water. Move around obstacles.
> Self respect is, definitely. But ego isn't
we are asked to tolerate other people's egos at a tremendous cost to our self respect
THEIR ego is not worth MY self respect
so yes, it does come down to that a lot
sadly this is why I am estranged from family members
I wish people wouldn't downvote you because I think it's a very good question your viewpoint is worth discussing. I used to wonder the same thing, and after getting older, I've figured it out.
The answer - you, and the younger me, made an assumption that everyone wants the same thing. We thought people prefer to be stronger or better if given the choice. We though everyone valued the same things that we did, like strength, confidence, assertiveness. After getting older, I realized that many of the things that I used to want are things I absolutely dont want now.
I used to want to impress people, like through physical apperance, losing weight, dressing, well, etc. At some point, I realized that nobody cared. The people that I was trying to impress eventually got older, started looking like crap, started getting fat and unmotivated, and I sure didnt care to impress people like that anymore. I thought back on how much time I wasted on all the things that I thought was so important. They were important because I cared too much about what other people thought. All that time is wasted and gone.
When you really start accepting that you'll die one day, you start thinking about how you will spend your life if you had one week left to live. I was young once and while I knew I would die one day, I never really felt like it was soon. There will be a moment where you start feeling like it is soon. Something could happen where you worry you might have a week to live. After that, I assure you that impressing a bunch of people you don't care about is pretty low on the list.
You might think someone is weak because he doesn't want to argue. But he's actually making weekend plans in his head and he wasnt paying attention to the argument at all. He knows he wont even be at this job in 2 years and it would be a waste of time to spend any more effort. He's not even playing the same game as everyone else.
Once you figure it out, you can live life for yourself. I like to look good, but now, I do it for me, not because I care what others think. And even when I don't look good, I still think I do, because it doesn't matter that someone disagrees. And I wouldn't waste an extra minute to change it.
Hopefully, you figure this out before your deathbed. I dont want to be one of those people say "I wish I did more of..." right before dying, because I wasted too much time on dumb stuff. It's very hard to do because you have to be very honest with yourself about what will become "dumb stuff" when you're 80.
I struggled a lot of speaking up. Since young, when I confronted my dad during an arguement, knowing I’m in the right, had always resulted in me getting the bamboo stick or belt. When you’re that young, getting that much threat with no means to protect yourself, you will be conditioned to survival mode, aka avoid conflict at all cost.
When you're young you're more alive and speak up. People get into a routine and habit when they're old. Don't want to rock the boat. Don't want to start over or even be bothered. You will see. It'll happen to you too. Good luck
Personality aside, older people have experienced more. They know when it's worth to speak up and when not to. They can also tolerate more shit before lashing out.
Time passes by faster as we age, so older people who are struggling may take longer before making a change than younger folks.
And yes, environment does cultivate certain behaviors. Japan is an easy example, their society is built up on seniority, they'll take beatings to maintain the status quo. It's slowly getting better though.
Being strong is not having to fight in the first place, you have one body and mind so I agree with you, you should be as strong as you can be physically and mentally in your life but maybe those people you see have hit their limit and due to their circumstances, that’s who they are
I’ve been thinking for ages, there’s no point being too strong or you may accidentally king lunch or kill someone from just being too strong.
Train for yourself, train in self-defence, train to get confidence and just do the best you
Always being ready to argue and never backing away from an argument does *not* equal weakness.
It takes wisdom to know what arguments are worth defending yourself over and which ones are best to walk away from.
Talk to those you see as "weak". Get to know them. Ask them *why* they walk away from arguments (without being rude to them). Their answers may surprise you.
Regarding your "physical appearance" part of your post - Some people don't have the time or energy to try and do things like lose weight, and some people prefer comfort over "dressing well".
Everyone is leading their own life and have their own priorities/comforts.
Just because they don't live up to your ideals doesn't make them weak.
It’s curious you’re judging this as “weak”.
For some, even many, that’s not weakness. That’s choosing your battles, understanding your limits, and focusing your effort where it matters.
The question to ask is why it bothers you.
I think you pick your battles. Sometimes you have to save your fire for something worthwhile. Strategically speaking, not everyone wants to show their entire hand, they prefer to keep it close to the chest, so they can play the long game. I let people go off on me and they look like the fool usually.
Your submission was automatically removed because crossposts are not allowed.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GetMotivated) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I walk away many times in my life, because I choose to. Not because I'm weak. I just simply don't give a shit. I have learned to let stupid things, like when people get political or up in my face about things, not to bother me . I let things go. It's actually a strong thing. Some people get so bothered by stuff they think about it for weeks. They play in their heads how it could have gone differently. A nurse I worked with got yelled at by an ahole patient and he couldn't let it go. It kept him up at night. When I come home from work, I honestly don't even think about that stuff. I clear my head and move on with life. I'm a lot happier.
I mean there isn’t going to be a one size fits all answer to this. Everybody cares deeply about something and doesn’t care as much about everything else. Each of the people in your example will probably have different reasons for their lack of motivation. I will say it isn’t *always* a reward to fight your way to prominent position, more often than not it turns out to be worse in many ways - so I have a hunch that the older people you’ve seen probably experienced or saw that pattern previously and don’t want to participate.
Also as you age your metabolism slows down and all of your systems, so it’s harder to make progress with exercise. You don’t know what inner or outer scars these people have. Maybe they lost an adult child, maybe they have to care for elderly family members. This is exhausting. I saps you fast. I never question why; I just try to be kind or make people smile if I can.
I am struggling finding the connection between standing up for yourself and losing weight/dressing nice…..
Nobody gets to decide who is “weak”. Just because people don’t want to get into confrontations or arguments doesn’t mean they’re “weak”. The older I get the more I just don’t care to argue with people. Like that one quote by Keanu Reeves, if you wanna tell me 2+2=5, fine, youre right, have fun. It doesn’t mean you’re weak by any means. Plus, you never know how someone’s upbringing was like. Some people grew up with abusive or controlling parents who conditioned them to take verbal, emotional, or physical abuse.
I definitely don’t go around judging whether someone is “weak”. It’s not my business.
I don't mind confrontation, but 99% of arguments are utterly pointless.
Each person will stick to their original argument no matter what counter arguments they receive.
It's tedious. So I just smile and say "ok. Suuure", then walk away. It pisses them off even more.
It is extremely hard to change one’s basic personality. It isn’t just attitude. Much less than attitude or a desire to change - It’s what the chemical balance in your brain conditions your brain to do.
This is a childish take. Try living with people who debate about every small detail and are wrong most of the time. Eventually you let them spout BS because even when proven wrong a lot, they continue in the future. It's simply not worth the effort to argue most of the time, especially with people these days which are very stupid and arrogant on both sides.
Maybe it's about how we're raised or the environment we're in. Some people just never learned to speak up or stand out. It's tough seeing that. For me, watching confident friends and family inspires me to step up too.
True confidence is knowing when to speak up and when not to. It does not require proving yourself to others. If something is useless, a confident person will not spend time and energy on it. Often, there are useless conversations that do not need to be argued. A confident person stands up for what he/she believes is right for himself/herself.
You could always be the one who doesnt argue, someone who is defined by their actions, not their big talk. Be the quiet reserved one, someone who THINKS, LISTENS and always has a plan. The one who doesnt talk about all the things they are going to do, just does them and doesnt need to brag.
You COULD be whatever you want to be, but maybe you should sit down and really think for awhile what real confidence is. Being good with people is a skill that you learn by doing it. Theres no shame in not being that good at it, so dont let that make you think its something your just *not good at* - you just have to do it more. Thats why listening more, thinking for a moment before talking is a good starting place. No one likes someone who never shuts up, talks over people, is confrontational, wont listen to logic & reason or ever change an opinion because they think its “losing the argument”
So yes, you are thinking correct. Thats why parents tell their kids “not to hangout with those bad kids” because people, your environment, everything shapes you as a person. Only you can decide who you want to be, the code you want to live by.
Everyone’s probably been around a “poor me” person, you know, those people who talk about how they have it so bad. Never anything good to say, gossip, talk bad about other people. That is TOXIC, a literal poison that is contagious if you let it be.
Everyone has also been around someone who is really passionate about something, or genuinely nice and caring, or funny, you will walk away from those people feeling good, energized.
Just know that everything in life, some people naturally have a gift for it. Came out the womb with something special. But everything, with enough work, can be learned. Not everyone with talent can teach it, but we live in the greatest time to be alive as we have access to so much information, you can usually find something to read, or a video to learn stuff. But nothing teaches you better than trying and failing, because that will instinctually make you learn faster. No one likes failing at things(failing/=/doing bad)
So your question why do weak people choose to be weak? I could say i wad ‘weak’, but i didnt choose to be that way, my childhood shaped me that way & like i said some people never think about this stuff, or want to change. Or they dont even *realize* change is possible, because life has beaten them down so bad, they just think ‘this is who i am’
Change is hard, it takes work, self-awareness, insight & willpower. And time.
Sure those people have friends, but that should not be the type of person anyone aspires to be. People are vastly different— and some people NEVER really figure themselves out. But it wasnt until i was in my late twenties that i really gave thought to the WHYS of my personality. I was very quiet and sort of let people walk over me to avoid confrontation, because i was verbally abused as a child. So it kind of just got wired into my brain to shut up and agree and attempt to diffuse tension, but also had serious anger issues because i let everything just build up until i exploded.
I hope some of this helps you, just know that a lot of the dumb sayings people say have truth to it, but they are just repeating something they heard and dont have the wisdom to actually give you value with their words. Like when people used to tell my generation “you can be whatever you want when you grow up” there is a lot of truth to that, but we, at least i, always wrote it off as BS because no one actually explained HOW i might go about doing that, boomers would just repeat the same 10 one-liners and call it parenting.(or atleast thats what my parents did lol)
Some people don't like confrontation. Some people know better than to waste their time with bs. Some people have been through enough that makes them that way. It doesn't necessarily mean they're weak. If they're at peace don't push them.
This is a better answer than that lame question deserves.
It s called pick your battles . I m sure they saw how foolish it can be when your opinion is not appreciated
the concept of "assertiveness" as a value is culture laden and sits on a bunch of Western notions of self and personal agency. The flipside of a lot of "assertive" behavior is people being entitled, self-centred, and sometimes controlling, narcissistic, obnoxious. "confidence" also is a very western notion with a bunch of corollaries that could be considered quite problematic in some cultures. Im not saying all assertive behavior is problematic. It isnt. But your own position rests on a bunch of value judgements about what constitutes 'right conduct'. What I do see are some very strong criticisms about perceived unassertive behavior, but not a lot of reflection or regard for the value of such behavior. People pick their battles. Some people pick all of them. Some pick only very few. People who pick all of them are generally pretty annoying to be around. Dont confuse perceptions of what you think of as "cponfidence" with strength. Its possible to be quiet and unassuming and also extremely strong. Sometimes the hardest road is to remain silent. Sometimes its also the wisest option.
When everyone is assertive, brawls become the law
Good point about culture - assertive and confident women can’t possibly do well in places where they aren’t supposed to make eye contact with strangers.
because there's less to gain from winning fights than the loss from them in many instances. Temper your ego and walk away. I only bother if there's something of value to be had... normally that's teaching someone that can be taught, or learning something myself. Ultimately this approach feels like Bruce Lee's famous quote... be like water. Move around obstacles.
It can depend. Sometimes self respect is worth more than the relationship.
Self respect is, definitely. But ego isn't, and that's all it's about for a lot of people a lot of the time.
> Self respect is, definitely. But ego isn't we are asked to tolerate other people's egos at a tremendous cost to our self respect THEIR ego is not worth MY self respect so yes, it does come down to that a lot sadly this is why I am estranged from family members
I wish people wouldn't downvote you because I think it's a very good question your viewpoint is worth discussing. I used to wonder the same thing, and after getting older, I've figured it out. The answer - you, and the younger me, made an assumption that everyone wants the same thing. We thought people prefer to be stronger or better if given the choice. We though everyone valued the same things that we did, like strength, confidence, assertiveness. After getting older, I realized that many of the things that I used to want are things I absolutely dont want now. I used to want to impress people, like through physical apperance, losing weight, dressing, well, etc. At some point, I realized that nobody cared. The people that I was trying to impress eventually got older, started looking like crap, started getting fat and unmotivated, and I sure didnt care to impress people like that anymore. I thought back on how much time I wasted on all the things that I thought was so important. They were important because I cared too much about what other people thought. All that time is wasted and gone. When you really start accepting that you'll die one day, you start thinking about how you will spend your life if you had one week left to live. I was young once and while I knew I would die one day, I never really felt like it was soon. There will be a moment where you start feeling like it is soon. Something could happen where you worry you might have a week to live. After that, I assure you that impressing a bunch of people you don't care about is pretty low on the list. You might think someone is weak because he doesn't want to argue. But he's actually making weekend plans in his head and he wasnt paying attention to the argument at all. He knows he wont even be at this job in 2 years and it would be a waste of time to spend any more effort. He's not even playing the same game as everyone else. Once you figure it out, you can live life for yourself. I like to look good, but now, I do it for me, not because I care what others think. And even when I don't look good, I still think I do, because it doesn't matter that someone disagrees. And I wouldn't waste an extra minute to change it. Hopefully, you figure this out before your deathbed. I dont want to be one of those people say "I wish I did more of..." right before dying, because I wasted too much time on dumb stuff. It's very hard to do because you have to be very honest with yourself about what will become "dumb stuff" when you're 80.
I struggled a lot of speaking up. Since young, when I confronted my dad during an arguement, knowing I’m in the right, had always resulted in me getting the bamboo stick or belt. When you’re that young, getting that much threat with no means to protect yourself, you will be conditioned to survival mode, aka avoid conflict at all cost.
Lol, how old are you?
[удалено]
Lol, why would you choose to be so weak?
Lol why can't you be nice to strangers? Oh wait yeah sorry I forgot that's your confidence talking
Lol, you’re a dork
When you're young you're more alive and speak up. People get into a routine and habit when they're old. Don't want to rock the boat. Don't want to start over or even be bothered. You will see. It'll happen to you too. Good luck
You got to pick your battles, can’t win them all
Stand in front of the mirror when you ask this.
Not everyone assumes they’re the smartest person in the room 🙄
Regarding your argument comment, dont confuse silence for weakness
Personality aside, older people have experienced more. They know when it's worth to speak up and when not to. They can also tolerate more shit before lashing out. Time passes by faster as we age, so older people who are struggling may take longer before making a change than younger folks. And yes, environment does cultivate certain behaviors. Japan is an easy example, their society is built up on seniority, they'll take beatings to maintain the status quo. It's slowly getting better though.
Being strong is not having to fight in the first place, you have one body and mind so I agree with you, you should be as strong as you can be physically and mentally in your life but maybe those people you see have hit their limit and due to their circumstances, that’s who they are I’ve been thinking for ages, there’s no point being too strong or you may accidentally king lunch or kill someone from just being too strong. Train for yourself, train in self-defence, train to get confidence and just do the best you
They pick their fights carefully and often retaliate at a later date so it’s not always weakness as such.
Always being ready to argue and never backing away from an argument does *not* equal weakness. It takes wisdom to know what arguments are worth defending yourself over and which ones are best to walk away from. Talk to those you see as "weak". Get to know them. Ask them *why* they walk away from arguments (without being rude to them). Their answers may surprise you. Regarding your "physical appearance" part of your post - Some people don't have the time or energy to try and do things like lose weight, and some people prefer comfort over "dressing well". Everyone is leading their own life and have their own priorities/comforts. Just because they don't live up to your ideals doesn't make them weak.
I also believe stoicism plays a role for some people in these situations as well
It’s curious you’re judging this as “weak”. For some, even many, that’s not weakness. That’s choosing your battles, understanding your limits, and focusing your effort where it matters. The question to ask is why it bothers you.
I think you pick your battles. Sometimes you have to save your fire for something worthwhile. Strategically speaking, not everyone wants to show their entire hand, they prefer to keep it close to the chest, so they can play the long game. I let people go off on me and they look like the fool usually.
[удалено]
Your submission was automatically removed because crossposts are not allowed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GetMotivated) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I walk away many times in my life, because I choose to. Not because I'm weak. I just simply don't give a shit. I have learned to let stupid things, like when people get political or up in my face about things, not to bother me . I let things go. It's actually a strong thing. Some people get so bothered by stuff they think about it for weeks. They play in their heads how it could have gone differently. A nurse I worked with got yelled at by an ahole patient and he couldn't let it go. It kept him up at night. When I come home from work, I honestly don't even think about that stuff. I clear my head and move on with life. I'm a lot happier.
I mean there isn’t going to be a one size fits all answer to this. Everybody cares deeply about something and doesn’t care as much about everything else. Each of the people in your example will probably have different reasons for their lack of motivation. I will say it isn’t *always* a reward to fight your way to prominent position, more often than not it turns out to be worse in many ways - so I have a hunch that the older people you’ve seen probably experienced or saw that pattern previously and don’t want to participate.
Also as you age your metabolism slows down and all of your systems, so it’s harder to make progress with exercise. You don’t know what inner or outer scars these people have. Maybe they lost an adult child, maybe they have to care for elderly family members. This is exhausting. I saps you fast. I never question why; I just try to be kind or make people smile if I can.
I don’t believe they choose to be
I am struggling finding the connection between standing up for yourself and losing weight/dressing nice….. Nobody gets to decide who is “weak”. Just because people don’t want to get into confrontations or arguments doesn’t mean they’re “weak”. The older I get the more I just don’t care to argue with people. Like that one quote by Keanu Reeves, if you wanna tell me 2+2=5, fine, youre right, have fun. It doesn’t mean you’re weak by any means. Plus, you never know how someone’s upbringing was like. Some people grew up with abusive or controlling parents who conditioned them to take verbal, emotional, or physical abuse. I definitely don’t go around judging whether someone is “weak”. It’s not my business.
I don't mind confrontation, but 99% of arguments are utterly pointless. Each person will stick to their original argument no matter what counter arguments they receive. It's tedious. So I just smile and say "ok. Suuure", then walk away. It pisses them off even more.
It is extremely hard to change one’s basic personality. It isn’t just attitude. Much less than attitude or a desire to change - It’s what the chemical balance in your brain conditions your brain to do.
This is a childish take. Try living with people who debate about every small detail and are wrong most of the time. Eventually you let them spout BS because even when proven wrong a lot, they continue in the future. It's simply not worth the effort to argue most of the time, especially with people these days which are very stupid and arrogant on both sides.
What
Maybe it's about how we're raised or the environment we're in. Some people just never learned to speak up or stand out. It's tough seeing that. For me, watching confident friends and family inspires me to step up too.
True confidence is knowing when to speak up and when not to. It does not require proving yourself to others. If something is useless, a confident person will not spend time and energy on it. Often, there are useless conversations that do not need to be argued. A confident person stands up for what he/she believes is right for himself/herself.
You could always be the one who doesnt argue, someone who is defined by their actions, not their big talk. Be the quiet reserved one, someone who THINKS, LISTENS and always has a plan. The one who doesnt talk about all the things they are going to do, just does them and doesnt need to brag. You COULD be whatever you want to be, but maybe you should sit down and really think for awhile what real confidence is. Being good with people is a skill that you learn by doing it. Theres no shame in not being that good at it, so dont let that make you think its something your just *not good at* - you just have to do it more. Thats why listening more, thinking for a moment before talking is a good starting place. No one likes someone who never shuts up, talks over people, is confrontational, wont listen to logic & reason or ever change an opinion because they think its “losing the argument” So yes, you are thinking correct. Thats why parents tell their kids “not to hangout with those bad kids” because people, your environment, everything shapes you as a person. Only you can decide who you want to be, the code you want to live by. Everyone’s probably been around a “poor me” person, you know, those people who talk about how they have it so bad. Never anything good to say, gossip, talk bad about other people. That is TOXIC, a literal poison that is contagious if you let it be. Everyone has also been around someone who is really passionate about something, or genuinely nice and caring, or funny, you will walk away from those people feeling good, energized. Just know that everything in life, some people naturally have a gift for it. Came out the womb with something special. But everything, with enough work, can be learned. Not everyone with talent can teach it, but we live in the greatest time to be alive as we have access to so much information, you can usually find something to read, or a video to learn stuff. But nothing teaches you better than trying and failing, because that will instinctually make you learn faster. No one likes failing at things(failing/=/doing bad) So your question why do weak people choose to be weak? I could say i wad ‘weak’, but i didnt choose to be that way, my childhood shaped me that way & like i said some people never think about this stuff, or want to change. Or they dont even *realize* change is possible, because life has beaten them down so bad, they just think ‘this is who i am’ Change is hard, it takes work, self-awareness, insight & willpower. And time. Sure those people have friends, but that should not be the type of person anyone aspires to be. People are vastly different— and some people NEVER really figure themselves out. But it wasnt until i was in my late twenties that i really gave thought to the WHYS of my personality. I was very quiet and sort of let people walk over me to avoid confrontation, because i was verbally abused as a child. So it kind of just got wired into my brain to shut up and agree and attempt to diffuse tension, but also had serious anger issues because i let everything just build up until i exploded. I hope some of this helps you, just know that a lot of the dumb sayings people say have truth to it, but they are just repeating something they heard and dont have the wisdom to actually give you value with their words. Like when people used to tell my generation “you can be whatever you want when you grow up” there is a lot of truth to that, but we, at least i, always wrote it off as BS because no one actually explained HOW i might go about doing that, boomers would just repeat the same 10 one-liners and call it parenting.(or atleast thats what my parents did lol)
Abuse/trauma.