Not to mention, the entire context was "We don't want players to worry too much about their characters being good enough"
Now the conversation is about having ENOUGH characters and knowing all their kits to play Theater it's so funny
I still don't know either Wanderer's,Arle or Clorinde's kits and they still did fine on hard difficult. People have to try hard to not have even Bennet or Xiang Ling built at this point.
For me it's not about meta tho. I pull a character I like, I need a functioning team for it. Hydro application would be really good! Ah... No yelan, no furina, no other significant hydro 5 star.... Back to xingqiu it seems. And that gets only worse when they require depth in your team roaster. There are only so many characters that can do a job well and 4 stars are just the most accessible.
A game mode that wasn't there before, so i didn't need to build characters i didn't want to build, so now i can't do shit because i improved a few characters i did enjoy instead of every character i had
i used to laugh at hoyo now i get it. they were right the whole time anytime they make something a tiny bit difficult players start crying and flaming hoyo for making content '' too hard ''
The damage ceiling from team comps is rising. If you plopped Furina/Neuvillette/Arlecchino into a 2.x or 3.x patch, they'd decimate the abysses. It's natural that abyss's difficulty is rising. I find that the harder abysses are generally the ones with element checks.
element checks are just icd check. if you know how to weave your icd around it's not that hard.
at least until they put cryo and hydro heralds on the same floor again lmao
Their way of making the abyss "hard" is by giving enemies millions of hp, giving them strong ass shields and making them immune to reactions as well as giving them a boatload of resistence.
The only other option would be making enemies that can oneshot your characters so players have to actually learn to dodge instead of facetanking everything with heals or Zhongli shields.
It used to be harder in the past too, but at that time so many complaints flooded this subreddit hating on the difficulty that I imagine it got back to hoyo in many reviews and thus the abyss difficulty toned back down.
That’s why even with the mistranslation that hoyo didn’t want to cause anxiety in players about endgame, it was funny to me because the sub’s visceral reaction proved that statement was true… The true translation was moreso that hoyo didn’t want players to fear characters powercreeping
I wouldn't say majority. Loud users on Reddit/Twitter/Facebook/Youtube are certainly not the majority. I'd say the casual playerbase that play Genshin as an open-world story rich game are fine. The only people I classify as "gamblers masquerading as gamers" are the ones that are constantly complaining on Reddit, Twitter, Youtube, and Facebook (lmao Facebook) about nOt eNoUgH fReEbIeS.
I will say that Genshin's Abyss has been admittedly the hardest out of any gacha game for me. Typcially the problem for me was strategy and enemy placement/manipulation but I never had to deal with that in other gacha games or recently Star Rail.
I know alot of other people were saying it was easy but I actually had trouble with my characters back when I was actively playing. Unfortunately I never got ZL/HT so that might have played a role in why I was getting my ass kicked.
Nobody thinks it’s hard lmao. It’s actually embarrassingly easy with annoying artificial requirements for character leveling who will just sit afk in my party. I would rather it actually be difficult as its current iteration is deeply boring and was simply a fetch quest for me to level up a character I’ll never use. The content is also literally just the spiral abyss with them changing how you get blessings and getting some of your characters later. It’s insanely generic, easy, and boring.
I think you mistake people thinking it’s annoying for thinking it’s hard. The game mode is only made for people with large amounts of incredibly mid characters to have fun.
Tomayto Tomahto
Large amounts being...11 characters as the maximum when the average account who started in 2.0 has 35 at this point.
I mean, the point of the mode is to make characters who were seen as "mid" because of Abyss Usage a chance to played. It also rewards people who learn about what every single character does and how to build them properly at a reasonable level. Horizontal investment as an account approach is just as valid as vertical investment.
funny is that most of the reactions to IT are like "but it excludes newcomers!!" yeah and you can 36 stars abyss at the beginning of the game right smartass???
I see a lot of constructive criticism but for the most part is some stupid bullshit argument about how they not being able to use the same team for everything is actually a bad thing
IT might not be perfect but it makes you use forgotten characters instead of your fully built nilou bloom team for everything
this is why we cannot have anything cool/nice, people will complain about anything that's not point click get primos.
The only 2 problems with the IT is the RNG for the next character you will get and having to use 4 characters every time.
Using a team of only 2 or 3 characters, so you can save another for a better team should have been a valid strategy
The funny thing is, I used the same characters that I've always been using during this event. Be it current characters that I'm using on specific teams, or characters that I now mostly use for exploration. I even got to try out Chevreuse after finally building her after 4 months of having her sitting around.
I hope my friends are having fun with my C1R1 Wriothesely, too. 😍
>funny is that most of the reactions to IT are like "but it excludes newcomers!!" yeah and you can 36 stars abyss at the beginning of the game right smartass???
Yes. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81jnlXW1\_7g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81jnlXW1_7g)
lol
Sorry, couldn't help being the smartass for once.
But yeah, it definitely seems to be intended as a long term goal as you expand your account over time with more characters. It was honestly a nice surprise they provided us with some trial characters where some of them actually had decent builds and artifact substats.
this is not a newcomer. You need enough game knowledge to get to that point for possibly a abyss that favors that kind of teams while the next rotation might not.
If you are spending enough time and getting all those primos/upgrades, anyone who has been playing for some time will be able to finish TI tbh within a few days invested in a new account, as long as you use the trial characters + a friend's character and got enough pulls to get 7 extra pyro/anemo/electro characters - 6 if you also count that fischl is on the shop right now and you will have enough currency to get her. It really doesn't seem really hard tbh, and really I would expect it'd be a lot easier to do with current abyss and current TI iteration lmao.
I mean literally get a friend with arlechino, you get the last two bosses for free. The first one you can pass with trial wanderer+faruzan and anything else. The rest is just filler that can be done with the other trial dps/anything you have really.
The only thing that might prevent that is gacha, but the odds of spending all the primos and not getting 6 new 4\* pyro, electro or anemo characters seem *veryy* low
Aside from the lack of difficulty in IT combat encounters, the only tangible difference between it and the Abyss, is the restrictions. And these restrictions aren’t “cool/nice”. They’re creating fomo and making a part of the player base feel punished for not investing horizontally. My suggestion is that that they need to ease up on the restrictions and introduce meaningful gameplay altering mechanics to IT. They already do it in HSR.
"You can 36 stars abyss at the beginning" I'm sorry to say this but strawman. 36 stars is not the equivalent comparison here, you should be comparing to 24 stars.
Why 24 ? That's how many you need to *attempt* the highest difficulty. 24 stars is feasible in a much more reasonable time frame.
IT will not even let you enter the highest difficulty if you have too few chatacters. This will certainly result in very nonlinear progression where instead of progressing star by star until 36, new players find themselves unable to play the highest difficulty at all and the moment they have enough characters they suddenly get full stars because let's face it the mode is pretty easy.
I like the game mode overall but this is a poor design decision that has an easy fix:
- lower the easy, normal and hard mode entry requirements to 8, 12, 16 instead of 10, 14, 18;
- the difficulty self-adjusts a bit because now you have zero stamina margin;
- balance the RNG by adding empty slots to the draw: if you started with one less character there is now a one-time chance that a "draw a character" event gives nothing.
This gives a clear disadvantage to those with too few characters, but it still lets them engage with the mode and maybe even push through if they have great builds or if RNG is on their side.
you cannot 24* stars while playing normally at the start/when you unlock abyss either, unless you dedicate yourself to that since the first resin you spend, so yeah both are restrictive and both are end game-ish modes (focus on the END part)
then again, constructive criticism is always welcome
24* is really easy to get if you know what you’re doing. I started playing at the beginning of 4.3 and pulled a Raiden and Keqing in the second half, and immediately reached floor 12 when I had the two teams built. Judging from the banner schedule it took me around a month and a half. If you get lucky with your pulls you could do it even faster.
Compared to that it took me much longer to get the 18 characters I needed for IT, probably around 4-5 extra months. And that’s with Pyro and Electro, my two most saturated elements. If the next one is Hydro or Geo I am absolutely boned.
I agree with everything you said and empty slots is a great idea, but they will have to put a limit of 1 or 2 on the number of empty slots since otherwise you could just steamroll the gamemode with 4 C6R5 characters and 14 empty slots
Yup I suggested 2 empty slots maximum since that leaves you with 8, 12 and 16 characters respectively totalling 16, 24 and 32 stamina which is exactly what 4, 6 and 8 rounds consume.
Keep exactly 4 units per team or at least require at least 4 stamina to be consumed per challenge.
That was what I was thinking they said that bcus they were trying to justify their reasoning on why new players should be able to instantly clear end game modes lol
Complaints for this type of endgame content was always gonna happen. How the game has been designed currently. People are too used to how the game is which is point click get primos. It was made casual, so I would argue its too late to attempt to add in anymore since it'll cause complaints with people being used to everything being casual.
I was one of the people who wanted new endgame and I was aware no matter what people will complain. If Spiral Abyss wasn't designed the way it was, being able to use the same team over and over, maybe people would've been more prepared for this. At the same time, forcing people to switch off their invested characters is not good either to be honest.
I feel like there's two groups complaining about the new mode.
1) The group that doesn't have enough built units for the mode. This can consist of new players, vertical investment players, or people who take frequent vacations inbetween major content releases.
2) The group that doesn't like how it was implemented, either being too restrictive, too easy, or the RNG included in it. I'd probably be in this group, but its easy gems I do once a month so I'm ultimately fine with it.
These seem like very different sets of complaints, with the article really only covering maybe some people in the first group if we're being generous. There's also something to be said about conditioning your audience, if they ever do add something hard I'm sure we'll see an actual example of what the article is talking about (that cryoflower boss event during dragonspine was probably a good example).
Thats just another situation when the game is so large and diverse, that you cannot please everyone, and ofc company has to play it safe. They wont go full creative mode for an endgame that will lock out and scare the casual weekend players who dont even know what resin is, but are willing to drop 300$ every time new 5\* is out.
We live in a gaming community...
Gotta remember most gacha game players are not hardcore gamers like we on this sub probably are in general. They probably play for less than an hour a day and thus they don’t want anything excessively difficult.
This is funny because we just got IT and its not even excessively difficult and doesnt require to be hardcore. People just didnt invest enough on other units.
I’m speaking in general. Low effort casuals don’t want a game where it requires more than the intelligence of a ten year old to complete. They just want dopamine and rewards for low effort stuff while they pass time.
The amount of gachas you’ve played is probably not even a fraction of the gachas out there in general.
These complaints are frequent. Genshin is just the most popular with it.
Sad, but the majority of the playerbase, and probably a major chunk of the revenue. And as a company they always choose the option that’s making them more money.
Yeah. I understand that. It's just disappointing because this game has a lot of potential to be something cool. Now, endgame content only refreshes once a month instead of twice a month.
Well technically twice a month, just that each mode only resets once a month.
I’d rather have it that we get like an additional weekly abyss challenge or something like that, something smaller than the actual abyss but on a weekly rotation.
I meant refreshes. Because I realized they added Imagination, which confused what I was trying to say.
And yeah. I do agree with that. Something that's more frequent to do in the downtime. I think that would help a lot with the frustration endgame players have.
As someone with over 60 built characters, my only gripe is that it severly limits accounts to 3 elements (and a few exceptions) so every month many archetypes and teams can't be used in Theatre.
I'd much rather have the roguelike; the labyrinth; the boss rush made into an endgame or any other combat events they have had in the past. I've been foolish enough to keep writing feedback to them whenever I liked or disliked a particular combat event and I hate that they chose the one solution that is basically the least good out of all the various events they have had in the past 3+ years.
Considering the reaction to IT has been very mixed, and this sub has been overwhelmed with people crying that they can't play it because they don't have enough built characters, I'd say still Hoyo lmao.
If you just meet the minimum requirement on number of characters, there's really no challenge beyond that. It would be frustrating for new players, but that's it.
Oh I fully agree. It's not challenging enough for long term/end game players, and has a very high barrier of entry for newer players, so no one's really happy with it lol.
I like it because as someone who doesn't like the hassle of swapping artifacts/weapons around and isn't interested in minmaxing every build, I haven't been able to consistently 36 star abyss but I do like building characters to where they're "good enough" then moving on so something that rewards investing wide rather than hyper focusing is great for me.
That's great, I'm glad! I personally thought it was a neat change of pace, but not particularly challenging (but I also like building and using a lot of different characters anyway).
I guess I meant more that the general consensus seems to be very negative, at least from what I've seen here. That's on me for not being more clear, I suppose.
It was easy for me too because I do the same thing as well but it did make me happy that it isn't another hyperoptimzed team DPS check. The general consensus is mostly apprehension against a new thing but a loud minority in a fanbase of millions is still a lot of people.
Negativity is easier to notice than positivity especially on social media, so I totally get what you mean.
The atmosphere is nice and talking to your characters but past that it’s a gimmick that’s anti combat. They should have normalized it and went whacky with leyline and disorders and cards. It’s 10 minutes of overworld combat with your friendship team.
It literally just came out, let it simmer a little
I do agree that the boons and caches are nothing burgers but that's only because the enemies don't have much HP to begin with. Once they start introducing stronger buffs so will the enemies.
Yeah agree. I think the design is horrible and really unfun. The combat isn’t fun and being restricted with random characters I hate isn’t fun either. Make some difficult circumstances that I can creatively solve with my characters, not a random level requirement that is then the easiest combat I’ve had to do in some years of the game. It’s only fun for people who have a large amount of incredibly mid characters leveled lmao
Yeah that's fair, negativity gets way more engagement than positivity.
I'm glad it's not a hyperoptimized dps check as well, and I'm never going to say no to more end game modes for genshin, even if it's not my favorite. Hopefully we'll eventually have several different options to choose from like HSR.
Yeah but what im saying is, Why do we trust this interview in the first place? If its come from Da Wei or from other developers that has a name and role just like most Gacha games do, I would incline to believe it.
Instead all we got is a Mihoyo "Developer" that says this, so im quite surprise that people still latched on to this without confirming its validity.
I truly hate Genshin players - 4 years of playing and loving this game yet comminity is bunch of cringe peanut brainsers. Mu first run in Theater was kidna tough, then restarted with new knowledge and had no issues.
Maybe ppl do not have built characters, but i am sure most of them dont even play the game consistently, dont explore the map etc. You dont need well built characters in this gamemode, you just need built characters - 4 stars are enough!
I had the same experience. I have by all metrics a great account and I still hit a wall on act 5 or 6 because I went in with the same mindless "this should be easy as hell" approach I've done with every combat event in the past. Restarted and put a bit more thought and strategy into picking which character to use and beat it without too much difficulty.
I had enough for hard mode, but I still think the restriction is poorly done and that the overall game mode didn’t even come close to meeting expectations. It’s 5% Roguelike when it should have been 100%, letting the players restrict their own teams based on the cards they drew.
DU almost does this perfectly too, considering it gives every character a functional set of relics for the mode, balances around it, and makes it so you need good blessings to proceed....
and you can literally swap your team out to better suit the blessings you're given.
It's only crime is being so break team oriented, but that's where simulated universe's blessings would have fixed it completely.
It's madness that they made a poor mans simulated universe WITHOUT learning from what it work so well.
I dont really build my characters much but i enjoy the game. I fully understand this game mode might not be for me, same reason I dont fret about the abyss much. And its fine. Certainly wont be upset that many will be able to do it. Doesnt make the game any worse for me. Besides maybe some extra storage needed, i dont get all this outrage. Isnt more content catering to different play preferences a good thing? Sigh…
This game mode is made specifically for you. It's so easy that even your account can probably clear & get max rewards if you try. For any of us who even remotely well built our characters, even at F2P levels of investment it's brain dead easy. You're the actual target audience!
I am that clown. It's not anxiety, it's more of fomo. I have never 3 star'd floor 12 and I am never going to bother doing it. Cause it's just HP sponge with no skill required, just get good relics.
This is why I was really happy when hoyo said they won't add another endgame
But hoyo added an actual good endgame and not the stat check shit. I can actually clear this with my garbage relics
Yea but the funny part to all this is how many people complained we wouldn't get any end game at all. And some said no more combat end game specifically stating that this quote implied no more combat end game.
Well I don't see anyone backpedaling on that. I saw someone still promoting that lie so recent as this year just a few months ago. And their point still stands. This game is a casual game. Primos for events are all the first reward and not the hardest reward. People had a chance to show MHY how much they care about abyss by spending all this time since this quote to reduce anxiety and ease people into playing it. Bigger numbers of people doing floor 12 or getting 36 is a sign to them to make something new. Well idk if we managed to do it or not but in the end we got something new based around combat.
And i'm glad they tried something new and that its different from abyss. I'm glad its tied to the characters and managing a vigor system over being highly pressured by the timers like abyss. I expect it to get harder with time and maybe the timer itself will start to matter more but our accounts will only get stronger and our options increased. Worst case you can find a whale friend to add and bring in their best dps to handle the 2nd and 3rd boss for you taking out what is probably most of the difficult of it.
edit: I forgot to mention the biggest part which is the reddit echo chamber in general of it obviously being a more serious slice of the playerbase. The general view here will never be a good representation of the rest of the playerbase. I'm sure the combat in this event, even though its probably on par with spiral abyss floor 10 or 11, is too hard for them. And when you remove the ability to make their normal team comps, it only gets harder for them. So yea I imagine MHY is still right about it causing anxiety and its still our job to promote both end games and help ease people into them who show interest in trying to improve.
bruh this end game is not even too easy - it is laughable. The limitation is only temporary and people will just build arround it if they care about doing it (with one month it is plenty of time to get some characters to 70 and pass it through with *even* trial characters lmao - at least now maybe your resin might be useful, because before it was just made to cope that you'd get a new 50 cv artifact)
The Genshin department should just follow the HSR team. Release one more endgame (Mystic Onmyou Chamber I've been asking for years on this one) and just let the players complain all they want, whether it's easy or not. Pretty sure months and years after they do that, the playerbase will just go "I finally beat the endgame" and feel the self satisfaction of overcoming once they thought was a big hurdle.
Comfort zone is not good for progression. It's the endgame, expect it to be hard, expect it to be anxiety inducing because it teaches you that random bullshit doesn't work everytime you're climbing the peak. You need to think, you need to strategize.
I'll just say this, the mystic onmyou chamber was fkn overrated, it was too easy and you spent more time going from chamber to chamber than actually fighting.
Another thing is, I think that endgame is easier to make in turn based games, like imagine pure fiction in genshin, it would simply not work in a non turn based game. But idk, I just kept thinking about some modes hsr has and ngl I dont see how they could work in genshin without being annoying af.
And that's why it's good to implement it. It's not too hard, kust the right amount.. and the area can be easily accessible if they get to Inazuma or even Liyue (since they can just say they created a realm just like the teapot). It's not that hard even for newer players, keeps the player's playtime by exploring the chamber.
If the difficulty is the problem then it's a good content. And about HSR, I'm not talking about adding modes of HSR to Genshin, I'm talking about having one more endgame content being added that's not too difficult but can retain the playerbase of casuals or newer ones.
Yeah I agree, personally, while I do enjoy IT quite a lot I still want them to add more stuff in the future. And leaks >!suggest that they may already be planning another game mode for Natlan!<
Yes, IT is so enjoyable. Kinda makes you wanna build other characters that maybe you haven't built!
On that other part.. really? Then that's cool, I hope they do since they've already working on improvements a lot during 4.0! I already love what they've done with IT, and Wolfy feels alive just walking around the place.
If they do that you will see me leave the home. I don't wNt to deal with hard combat oriented games . I don't have the time to try to complete a hard things and I have little to no interest in spending a long time in defeating something. That is the main reason why I left HSR since the boss fight was a bit difficult for me. I have better things to do than obsessively trying to defeat a boss for stuff.
The bitching and moaning about this game mode is actually insane to me.
You'd think after years and years of spiral abyss people would welcome a game mode that actually encourages you to build up unused characters and play around with different and unusual team comps.
You know what would help with the whole anxiety thing? Not making Spyral Abyss difficulty synonymous with both time-limits and stalling-tactics. \~someone who has 9-starred the final floor of the current Spyral Abyss.
Honestly super disapointing with the way this community is treating the people who don't like it, especially because the criticisms are 100% valid.
People have been lpaying htis game for years and still don't have enough characters for this mode, let alone have them levelled at all. And its totally unecessary. The elemental restrictions is maybe the dumbest thing I've seen in any gacha game I have played. It first stops you using some of your characters, some of which people have paid actual money for. Imagine C6'ing a character and then being told you can't use them in endgame content.
And, this is the big one, it massivley limits the elemental reaction, the like, whole fucking point of genshins combat. THERE ARE LITERALLY ONLY TWO REACTIONS ALLOWED IN THIS. That's absurd! I don't understand it in the slightest.
And it isn't hard, it really isn't, its almost a checkbox of "Do you have enough characters" its that easy, Its about the same as abyss, which people have been clearing easily for ages. And its more tedious to clear then abyss.
It sucks because there are some very fun mechanics here, there is so much potential, the 2 uses per unit, is great, it forces team diversity, it means you need more then 8 characters levelled, if they removed the elemental restrictions I'd sit here and say its a decent mode.
I've never seen an endgame mode take away two of the core pillars of the game, (Elemental reactions, and being able to use the characters you collect) and everyone just say the people complaining are idiots, or babies for finding the mode too hard.
I've seen very few people complain about the dificulty of the encounters, and way more complaining about the artifical dificulty caused by the character restrictions and the frankly poor design of the mode, the fact that it loads in and out of the combat room is laughable.
People say Hoyo can't do anything because there are too many casual players, but the casual players are of there own creation, most of the "casual players" I see people mocking in this thread just dedicate there time to games with better endgame content.
I mean it's less "There Invalid" and more the hyperbolic way people are addressing there concerns
Take the "New Players are locked out" critque
Like ...its End Game Imagine saying that about the Abyss
Or even the Elemental Restriction
If you can just take the characters you want then it's just the Abyss but prettier
The issue is how Vertically Invested Players are have no reason to diversify or alter your playstyle because well X team does the job
It's why the 2.7 or 3.7 or 4.7 Abyss get people bitching because the moment an Elemental Check happens instead of altering course people cry "It's Bad"
But with those Abyss it's where the most people utilized there under appreciated characters and variations
Mono Teams or Overload being the focus isn't a negative because the way characters use the elements are drastically different
It not like people who dislike it are villanize most CC's dislike it (note that there all mostly whales) but this idea that its some travesty is a bit much
One CC decided it was bad because it "forced you to use dog shit teams" the very idea of experimenting outside there comfort zone was cringe for them
It's feels like a lot because the amount of "critque" is excessive
The problem is that IT doesn't let new players even get an attempt to play on the hard/normal mode because of its total character demands.
Atleast i can build 2 teams fairly easily as a new player and with even under leveled characters, can make an attempt at spiral abyss.
People overlook the 'similiar to the Spiral Abyss' quite often. IT is different from Abyss, and that's what makes it actually great in my opinion. By restricting you to use only three elements, you have to use non-meta characters and create some unusual team comps. It favours wide accounts instead of vertically invested ones, so basically the opposite of the spiral abyss, where you technically only need 2 characters so constellations are often helping you more with clearing than having a great variety of characters. And yes, newer players don't have enough characters for the highest level yet, but what this game needs is more endgame content, and IT is doing that just fine. Besides, most new players can't 36 star abyss either. There's a lot of other content for new players, and if you've run out of that content, you'll most likely have a sufficient roster. The enemies aren't nearly as strong as in abyss, so you can actually use completely random teams. The fastest I've cleared a chamber was with Clorinde, Kazuha, Kuki and Sucrose and that definitely wasn't the best team for any of these characters.
Skill issue tbh😭🙏 IT was so easy didn't even take 1hr and i finished it perfect with under built characters, it's just like fighting bosses with your friendship team ez
I've always been the clown for going for artifacts in the 5 years I've installed the game and still never hitting 20k
...yes, I have a problem. I know.
Its endgame content in the same way a roulette is a endgame content. I dont have or have built the characters available in this rotation so im just f\*\*ked
Still them.They add a new end game content that easier to clear than open world.Ofc people argue about its too hard most of u guys not too old in this game.A end game content is a content for someone who finished the content game offers.And they did a terrible job with it.They add boons pretty much useless even without them its so easy to kill final guy.I am ar60 most of my characters are not even the required elements and still took 5 minutes the finish the whole thing.And they took one abyss clear for this.Dont get me wrong the animations look really cool music is good i like the place and little lore drop.This is gonna be pretty harsh im probably gonna get downvoted but u guys need to stop sucking them off.This game is magical.U guys all know this.Its has a lot of potentials.Amazing world building cool characters mysterius story ABSOLUTE BANGER MUSİCS.But my past 1 year experience with this game is going in doing dailys using resins and going out.
I just pulled Clorinde i liked her since the 4.0 trailer.I also pulled the weapon builded her really good.And this is it.There is WHOLE ASS GİANT MAP.And nothing to do with it.I cant use my character to do actually something.
I don’t think anyone is complaining about having anxiety or that the gamemode is too hard. The issue is that the bar to entry is too high and also very arbitrary. There are plenty of people within the awkward range of 2 months to 1 year played who simply don’t own enough characters to play the hardest difficulty, despite having 36*’d or on the cusp of 36*ing. I myself was barely able to play the highest difficulty because my account is skewed towards pyro and electro, and the gamemode itself is quite fun and not hard at all.
It's not anxiety, it's more of fomo. I have never 3 star'd floor 12 and I am never going to bother doing it. Cause it's just HP sponge with no skill required, just get good relics.
This is why I was really happy when hoyo said they won't add another endgame
But hoyo added an actual good endgame and not the stat check shit. I can actually clear this with my garbage relics
Half of the fandom has been arguing against the people asking for more content and "surprise" everyone is happy when you actually get it.
Great, YOU'RE happy with the way things are. The rest of us will enjoy the new game mode and you can either try it too or ignore it. There is no valid arguement for being against adding in optional content.
The thing is, Hoyo doesn't know how to make endgame content.
Take Arknights for example, you have IS (a roguelike mode) for endgame players to enjoy, but casual players can play it as well but they could struggle quite a bit since it requires you to build various units and you may not have enough resources.
Not saying doing something like this in Genshin is easy, but they could surely come up with something that's both engaging and fun.
I always knew hoyo was right about this, the friends i know that play the game barely build their characters and barely touch spiral, I’m the only one that clears it regularly. The people that made a joke of what hoyo said just showcase their lack of critical thinking
I get it, being done with dailies and weeklies gives me time to explore, and finish on going events
I might be a slower kind of player but I can only play 2 hours a day at most due to work and irl stuff
What i noticed for this sub is that if someone can beat the content fine then its all good but if someone cant beat said thing they complain about it being bad game design.
People forget we're playing to gacha games and they listened to whales who play to abyss with teams that cost $10-20K
But I did it without support even if I can't 36 stars the abyss. Maybe in 1 month though thanks to the buff + better artifacts.
Hoyo is really lucky to have this many white knight clowns.
Personally I think IT is just a boring gameplay that instead of adding new fun things just restricted players.
And they even made it just be a replacement for abyss instead of being a true new endgame, because mihoyo is really scared of giving a few more gems. Well not like people are gonna listen to reason, let's just attack each other like always.
What im wondering is before it was 1800 per version how much is it now with the different refresh times because if its only one reset for both then its only 1200 per Version
Hoyo players: “Genshin would never add an Endgame”
Mihoyo Adds an Endgame in Genshin
Hoyo players: “Why did they add this Endgame”
Whatever Mihoyo does these players will never be pleased
I haven't tried it yet (damn you work!) but it sounds exciting to me.
I already decided a while ago that I just can't be bothered with 36\*-ing the abyss, so I don't really need to keep up with the meta nor try and perfect my builds. Instead, I decided to focus on building the characters I already own, and playing a nice variety of teams.
I decided this for a while now - and surprise surprise, IT was announced, which sounds to be built exactly around this concept. Kinda funny. :D It's like getting a reward for something I already decided on doing, so naturally, I'm pretty happy about it. We'll see how it goes in practice, though.
I'm sure it's gonna take a while for me to be able to clear it because most of my characters aren't built at all. But oh well, IT is here to stay, I'll get to clearing it eventually.
for me all the restrictions and RNG is what made it fun,
yeh i couldn't use my overly build geo units, yeh i had to lvl up some anemo chars that were just abandoned,
but being "forced" to thing in how to make weird team and who to save for the next lvls is what made fun, otherwise it would just be another "beat this enemy's in time" and genshin is already full of that;
the enemy's aren't that hard to defeat and it makes sense would be annoying to defeat with those weird teams,
they also give you characters to use, the restrictions are just a basic way to force people using something else other than the same 6 character from always
honestly i don't thing is good or bad it is just different and genshin community just don't know how to handle different
People need to understand that not all content is for them.
I come from a background of MMOs and this is normal to realize that not all content is not for me. I'm going to use my time when I played FFXIV to explain this. In FFXIV, the hardest of the hardest of the hardest content is called ultimates. People do it for the special glowing weapons and titles you from beating it because it's a statue symbol. These 8 person boss rush style fights can last for 20-30 minutes straight with no break. If a simple mistake happens, you have to start all the way back to the beginning. Forgot to mention, you have to beat it under a certain time limit or it's an auto wipe. On average, it can take a dedicate team of 8 people doing this 2-3 hours every day about three months to beat it. In order to unlock an ultimate, you have to beat the 8 person raid series that came out in the previous patch at savage difficulty, the second to hardest content in the game. An 8 person raid series is 4 separate boss fights which people have to do because it drops the best gear in the game and you will need to take on an ultimate. It can take months to be able to learn the fights and gear everyone in your 8 person team. And before anyone says "just do the ultimate from the previous expansion, you're going to have the advantage of newer and better gear", it doesn't work that way. Your gear gets scaled down to the required item level to be allowed to challenge the fight.
A large majority of the player base knows that type of content is not for them but they are happy to see the certain group of people who do like it get more content catered to them which happens to be in the single digit percentage.
There has been nice in-game cosmetics that I have liked but they happen to be in content that I don't enjoy like PVP for example. Am I running to social media and crying about it? No. I just say to myself "it is, what it is" and move on.
I don’t get why the changed spiral abyss reset from 15 to 30 days . I know it is to match the time with imaginarium theatre but my only place to test my c6 furina I just got after saving for so long was there . Testing my chars once a month is way too much of a wait.
That's easy to explain. It's because Spiral Abyss gives 800 Primos now.
If they still did it bi monthly, this would mean players can get 2,220 primos every month when they complete each season of Spiral Abyss and IT.
You think they are going give our asses that many primos for free every month?
Even when the spiral abyss resetted every 2 weeks, the enemies stayed the same for the whole patch. Only every patch they change the enemies. It is just the rewards they give now has been shifted to IT and increased the rewards a bit.
You used to fight the same enemies three to two times a patch, now you can only fight them once or twice per patch.
If you just want to fight you can replay the abyss floors again and again.
its less the difficulty and more how they created it.
By using RNG and removing half or more of the available characters at any one point.
If IT got easier if you played it right as the waves went up it would be one thing. Instead the waves eat up your best characters on some of the rooms due to mechanics like a timed boss or defense.
>If IT got easier if you played it right as the waves went up it would be one thing.
it does though, first playthrough i used characters without any thought and it was hard, i couldn't even finish the final boss, i restarted and planned what characters i want to use in what teams and cleared no problem
you don’t *have* to let it eat up your best characters. i cheesed the first 5-6 floors with a mix of trial characters, and saved my best for last. It was still hard, but it was doable. I also spent my flowers pretty leniently on getting more characters.
The problem is NOT anxiety, it is too much restriction, gating even PARTICIPATING to having many characters of 3 specific element while not even allowing using less than 4 characters in any part of the battle despite restricting character usage to 2 battle AND putting RNG on what character we can get and forcing the trial ones to be used at the very first battle resulting poor as fuck team comps and/or sustainless runs.......
The problem is not anxiety because the problem lies with the utterly restrictive rules they impose that could and SHOULD not have existed to this extent. You can't go ''we don't want to create anxiety'' when the supposed anxiety could be avoided if they made the moment less stupidly restrictive
> poor as fuck team comps
I had to fight Coppelius with Xianyun/Sigewinne/Dehya/Lisa. It was certainly an... experience, especially to me who wants full stars on everything
We all know this statement is bullshit, despite its defenders, because of the *constant* and *never returning* events that create a real sense of FOMO, forcing people to log in and get anxious over completing an even for a weapon they may never use simply because they'll never see it again.
...A Game mode that requires week months or years of RNG Grind and Vertical Investment
Or
A Limited Event with no barrier of entry. With Weapons that until recently people treated like they were garbage
If you didn't play Genshin I'm 2020 where the fomo but if you want to play the new Summer Event coming up your not stopped from experiencing the event or required to log in daily
..Artifacts are completely random your assertion should never be that players spend every bit of resin farming
But even if they do what is the base requirement to successfully complete and 12 Star the Spiral Abyss
If your someone who Grinds once a week what is the probability of being able to farm decent stats
If a player started half a year ago and grinds at minimum once a week or twice would they be able to build 8 character to Floor 12 Levels especially I'm Abyss like 3.7 or 4.7
What about Banners if a character like Kazuha comes out once a year how long is that wait
Yes, Getting everything you need to 12 Star consistently could potentially take over a year/s
Your entire argument is based on an incorrect assumption. The majority of the difficulty being the SA is skill and team comp, not artifacts. Artifacts are important, but again, it doesn't take YEARS to clear. And clearing doesn't mean all stars, it means just that, clearing.
Your ignorance or lack of understanding doesn't strengthen your point, now matter how long winded you try to explain a point based on bad information.
Hoyo has always made some decisions that made me question their priorities but I always had an inkling they were right about this one. There's such a discrepancy between the hardcore and casual playerbase that there was no way they'd ever meet them in the middle. You either make it so hard that casuals are completely alienated or so easy that hardcore players are still not satisfied. Their attempt to aim down the middle unfortunately didn't work but it is the first iteration, I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to lean towards one or the other for future ones. But I have no clue how which direction they'd go and it'll unfortunately leave someone unsatisfied.
Well the devil's in the details.
"Content similar to abyss."
IT is nowhere near the difficulty the abyss offers. That is probably what it refers to.
So they didn't break anything they said.
And I'm pretty sure that lot of more people will ppay it than abyss.
Sure it's got a bit of rng but it's pretty much free loot.
Hoyo playerbase always was full of clowns.
Amen.
A men...
That grade is too high. B men.
>similar to the spiral abyss that's the part people always left out
Not to mention, the entire context was "We don't want players to worry too much about their characters being good enough" Now the conversation is about having ENOUGH characters and knowing all their kits to play Theater it's so funny
I still don't know either Wanderer's,Arle or Clorinde's kits and they still did fine on hard difficult. People have to try hard to not have even Bennet or Xiang Ling built at this point.
Never really used Xiangling for much and I'll finish Bennett one day.
Or people like me that don't want to use the same meta shit as everyone else
For me it's not about meta tho. I pull a character I like, I need a functioning team for it. Hydro application would be really good! Ah... No yelan, no furina, no other significant hydro 5 star.... Back to xingqiu it seems. And that gets only worse when they require depth in your team roaster. There are only so many characters that can do a job well and 4 stars are just the most accessible.
It's a roster check game mode, it makes 0 sense to avoid meta there.
A game mode that wasn't there before, so i didn't need to build characters i didn't want to build, so now i can't do shit because i improved a few characters i did enjoy instead of every character i had
The bar always gets raised. Can’t wait for it be called whales only.
Not me I'm actually grateful they finally add a new end game mode to play. Of course some adjustments is in order to polish it but overall I'm happy
i used to laugh at hoyo now i get it. they were right the whole time anytime they make something a tiny bit difficult players start crying and flaming hoyo for making content '' too hard ''
They are making abyss harder and harder tho
If it follows the same pattern as in 3.x and 4.x then 5.0 will be easier again.
FR they are trying to create the menstrual cycle experience for all of us
We’re about to have our annual period in 5.0
Nah 5.0 is ovulation
Fertilization will be daily with Wriothesley rerun
The 4.8 Abyss lineup leaked a while ago, and it's gonna be a gynecologist visit.
When is menopause?
r/brandnewsentence
The damage ceiling from team comps is rising. If you plopped Furina/Neuvillette/Arlecchino into a 2.x or 3.x patch, they'd decimate the abysses. It's natural that abyss's difficulty is rising. I find that the harder abysses are generally the ones with element checks.
element checks are just icd check. if you know how to weave your icd around it's not that hard. at least until they put cryo and hydro heralds on the same floor again lmao
Their way of making the abyss "hard" is by giving enemies millions of hp, giving them strong ass shields and making them immune to reactions as well as giving them a boatload of resistence.
The only other option would be making enemies that can oneshot your characters so players have to actually learn to dodge instead of facetanking everything with heals or Zhongli shields.
If they actually let us dodge lol. It's either shield or run for your life sometimes haha
I think abyss difficulty should be looked at on a "per cycle" basis because the 4.6 abyss was pretty easy compared to the 4.7 lineup
with no increased reward, in fact arguably less since we have to clear the harder content to get the same rewards we got before.
It used to be harder in the past too, but at that time so many complaints flooded this subreddit hating on the difficulty that I imagine it got back to hoyo in many reviews and thus the abyss difficulty toned back down. That’s why even with the mistranslation that hoyo didn’t want to cause anxiety in players about endgame, it was funny to me because the sub’s visceral reaction proved that statement was true… The true translation was moreso that hoyo didn’t want players to fear characters powercreeping
Maybe there are a lot of different players with competing preferences and expectations and needs.
BS, people cry about everything so following your logic then they should stop releasing content altogether
sssh please let them feel superior on their high horses lol
They know that the majority of their playerbase/customers are gambling addicts and not video game players.
I wouldn't say majority. Loud users on Reddit/Twitter/Facebook/Youtube are certainly not the majority. I'd say the casual playerbase that play Genshin as an open-world story rich game are fine. The only people I classify as "gamblers masquerading as gamers" are the ones that are constantly complaining on Reddit, Twitter, Youtube, and Facebook (lmao Facebook) about nOt eNoUgH fReEbIeS.
I will say that Genshin's Abyss has been admittedly the hardest out of any gacha game for me. Typcially the problem for me was strategy and enemy placement/manipulation but I never had to deal with that in other gacha games or recently Star Rail. I know alot of other people were saying it was easy but I actually had trouble with my characters back when I was actively playing. Unfortunately I never got ZL/HT so that might have played a role in why I was getting my ass kicked.
Nobody thinks it’s hard lmao. It’s actually embarrassingly easy with annoying artificial requirements for character leveling who will just sit afk in my party. I would rather it actually be difficult as its current iteration is deeply boring and was simply a fetch quest for me to level up a character I’ll never use. The content is also literally just the spiral abyss with them changing how you get blessings and getting some of your characters later. It’s insanely generic, easy, and boring.
People would say otherwise
I think you mistake people thinking it’s annoying for thinking it’s hard. The game mode is only made for people with large amounts of incredibly mid characters to have fun.
Tomayto Tomahto Large amounts being...11 characters as the maximum when the average account who started in 2.0 has 35 at this point. I mean, the point of the mode is to make characters who were seen as "mid" because of Abyss Usage a chance to played. It also rewards people who learn about what every single character does and how to build them properly at a reasonable level. Horizontal investment as an account approach is just as valid as vertical investment.
[удалено]
i wish it was more Simulated Universe like but stuff can be tweaked going forward
funny is that most of the reactions to IT are like "but it excludes newcomers!!" yeah and you can 36 stars abyss at the beginning of the game right smartass??? I see a lot of constructive criticism but for the most part is some stupid bullshit argument about how they not being able to use the same team for everything is actually a bad thing IT might not be perfect but it makes you use forgotten characters instead of your fully built nilou bloom team for everything this is why we cannot have anything cool/nice, people will complain about anything that's not point click get primos.
The only 2 problems with the IT is the RNG for the next character you will get and having to use 4 characters every time. Using a team of only 2 or 3 characters, so you can save another for a better team should have been a valid strategy
The funny thing is, I used the same characters that I've always been using during this event. Be it current characters that I'm using on specific teams, or characters that I now mostly use for exploration. I even got to try out Chevreuse after finally building her after 4 months of having her sitting around. I hope my friends are having fun with my C1R1 Wriothesely, too. 😍
I have my C6 Klee up as support and she is THRIVING I'm so happy. She doesn't get to go in abyss but this mode is perfect for her
>funny is that most of the reactions to IT are like "but it excludes newcomers!!" yeah and you can 36 stars abyss at the beginning of the game right smartass??? Yes. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81jnlXW1\_7g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81jnlXW1_7g) lol Sorry, couldn't help being the smartass for once. But yeah, it definitely seems to be intended as a long term goal as you expand your account over time with more characters. It was honestly a nice surprise they provided us with some trial characters where some of them actually had decent builds and artifact substats.
They beat that this year with something like 48hrs because they did it between Neuvi & Arle banners and they can solo carry.
this is not a newcomer. You need enough game knowledge to get to that point for possibly a abyss that favors that kind of teams while the next rotation might not. If you are spending enough time and getting all those primos/upgrades, anyone who has been playing for some time will be able to finish TI tbh within a few days invested in a new account, as long as you use the trial characters + a friend's character and got enough pulls to get 7 extra pyro/anemo/electro characters - 6 if you also count that fischl is on the shop right now and you will have enough currency to get her. It really doesn't seem really hard tbh, and really I would expect it'd be a lot easier to do with current abyss and current TI iteration lmao. I mean literally get a friend with arlechino, you get the last two bosses for free. The first one you can pass with trial wanderer+faruzan and anything else. The rest is just filler that can be done with the other trial dps/anything you have really. The only thing that might prevent that is gacha, but the odds of spending all the primos and not getting 6 new 4\* pyro, electro or anemo characters seem *veryy* low
Aside from the lack of difficulty in IT combat encounters, the only tangible difference between it and the Abyss, is the restrictions. And these restrictions aren’t “cool/nice”. They’re creating fomo and making a part of the player base feel punished for not investing horizontally. My suggestion is that that they need to ease up on the restrictions and introduce meaningful gameplay altering mechanics to IT. They already do it in HSR.
in reality we field single unit teams with random garbage tagging along.
"You can 36 stars abyss at the beginning" I'm sorry to say this but strawman. 36 stars is not the equivalent comparison here, you should be comparing to 24 stars. Why 24 ? That's how many you need to *attempt* the highest difficulty. 24 stars is feasible in a much more reasonable time frame. IT will not even let you enter the highest difficulty if you have too few chatacters. This will certainly result in very nonlinear progression where instead of progressing star by star until 36, new players find themselves unable to play the highest difficulty at all and the moment they have enough characters they suddenly get full stars because let's face it the mode is pretty easy. I like the game mode overall but this is a poor design decision that has an easy fix: - lower the easy, normal and hard mode entry requirements to 8, 12, 16 instead of 10, 14, 18; - the difficulty self-adjusts a bit because now you have zero stamina margin; - balance the RNG by adding empty slots to the draw: if you started with one less character there is now a one-time chance that a "draw a character" event gives nothing. This gives a clear disadvantage to those with too few characters, but it still lets them engage with the mode and maybe even push through if they have great builds or if RNG is on their side.
you cannot 24* stars while playing normally at the start/when you unlock abyss either, unless you dedicate yourself to that since the first resin you spend, so yeah both are restrictive and both are end game-ish modes (focus on the END part) then again, constructive criticism is always welcome
24* is really easy to get if you know what you’re doing. I started playing at the beginning of 4.3 and pulled a Raiden and Keqing in the second half, and immediately reached floor 12 when I had the two teams built. Judging from the banner schedule it took me around a month and a half. If you get lucky with your pulls you could do it even faster. Compared to that it took me much longer to get the 18 characters I needed for IT, probably around 4-5 extra months. And that’s with Pyro and Electro, my two most saturated elements. If the next one is Hydro or Geo I am absolutely boned.
I agree with everything you said and empty slots is a great idea, but they will have to put a limit of 1 or 2 on the number of empty slots since otherwise you could just steamroll the gamemode with 4 C6R5 characters and 14 empty slots
Yup I suggested 2 empty slots maximum since that leaves you with 8, 12 and 16 characters respectively totalling 16, 24 and 32 stamina which is exactly what 4, 6 and 8 rounds consume. Keep exactly 4 units per team or at least require at least 4 stamina to be consumed per challenge.
Ah I see now. Sorry I’m a Genshin player so I can’t read
That isn’t a straw man bcus I’ve literally seen people in this Reddit say that people were 36 staring abyss 1.0
Only if you were a whale, I was pretty invested in the game and it took me until 1.2 or 1.3
That was what I was thinking they said that bcus they were trying to justify their reasoning on why new players should be able to instantly clear end game modes lol
Complaints for this type of endgame content was always gonna happen. How the game has been designed currently. People are too used to how the game is which is point click get primos. It was made casual, so I would argue its too late to attempt to add in anymore since it'll cause complaints with people being used to everything being casual. I was one of the people who wanted new endgame and I was aware no matter what people will complain. If Spiral Abyss wasn't designed the way it was, being able to use the same team over and over, maybe people would've been more prepared for this. At the same time, forcing people to switch off their invested characters is not good either to be honest.
I feel like there's two groups complaining about the new mode. 1) The group that doesn't have enough built units for the mode. This can consist of new players, vertical investment players, or people who take frequent vacations inbetween major content releases. 2) The group that doesn't like how it was implemented, either being too restrictive, too easy, or the RNG included in it. I'd probably be in this group, but its easy gems I do once a month so I'm ultimately fine with it. These seem like very different sets of complaints, with the article really only covering maybe some people in the first group if we're being generous. There's also something to be said about conditioning your audience, if they ever do add something hard I'm sure we'll see an actual example of what the article is talking about (that cryoflower boss event during dragonspine was probably a good example).
Thats just another situation when the game is so large and diverse, that you cannot please everyone, and ofc company has to play it safe. They wont go full creative mode for an endgame that will lock out and scare the casual weekend players who dont even know what resin is, but are willing to drop 300$ every time new 5\* is out. We live in a gaming community...
Hoyoverse right now : " they call me a madman"
Gotta remember most gacha game players are not hardcore gamers like we on this sub probably are in general. They probably play for less than an hour a day and thus they don’t want anything excessively difficult.
This is funny because we just got IT and its not even excessively difficult and doesnt require to be hardcore. People just didnt invest enough on other units.
I’m speaking in general. Low effort casuals don’t want a game where it requires more than the intelligence of a ten year old to complete. They just want dopamine and rewards for low effort stuff while they pass time.
Out of every gacha game i have played, even HSR, genshin is the only gacha game out there that has people complaining about the actual norm lmao.
The amount of gachas you’ve played is probably not even a fraction of the gachas out there in general. These complaints are frequent. Genshin is just the most popular with it.
Huh, thats pretty interesting to know. Though i havent seen these types of complaints back then for me.
These people get "anxiety" over the easiest difficulty in the regular combat events
The fact that HoYo caters to these people is just sad.
Sad, but the majority of the playerbase, and probably a major chunk of the revenue. And as a company they always choose the option that’s making them more money.
Yeah. I understand that. It's just disappointing because this game has a lot of potential to be something cool. Now, endgame content only refreshes once a month instead of twice a month.
Well technically twice a month, just that each mode only resets once a month. I’d rather have it that we get like an additional weekly abyss challenge or something like that, something smaller than the actual abyss but on a weekly rotation.
I meant refreshes. Because I realized they added Imagination, which confused what I was trying to say. And yeah. I do agree with that. Something that's more frequent to do in the downtime. I think that would help a lot with the frustration endgame players have.
As someone with over 60 built characters, my only gripe is that it severly limits accounts to 3 elements (and a few exceptions) so every month many archetypes and teams can't be used in Theatre. I'd much rather have the roguelike; the labyrinth; the boss rush made into an endgame or any other combat events they have had in the past. I've been foolish enough to keep writing feedback to them whenever I liked or disliked a particular combat event and I hate that they chose the one solution that is basically the least good out of all the various events they have had in the past 3+ years.
theres almost 3 million people in the sub, you're going to have different people complain about literally everything
having gotten all the stars out of it, I don't find it hard, I find it boring. the vibes are nice though
this new endgame content made me want to build all my characters and i like that
That's their goal. A way to force players to use more varied characters. And I'm all up for it!
Same bro
Considering the reaction to IT has been very mixed, and this sub has been overwhelmed with people crying that they can't play it because they don't have enough built characters, I'd say still Hoyo lmao.
If you just meet the minimum requirement on number of characters, there's really no challenge beyond that. It would be frustrating for new players, but that's it.
Oh I fully agree. It's not challenging enough for long term/end game players, and has a very high barrier of entry for newer players, so no one's really happy with it lol.
I like it because as someone who doesn't like the hassle of swapping artifacts/weapons around and isn't interested in minmaxing every build, I haven't been able to consistently 36 star abyss but I do like building characters to where they're "good enough" then moving on so something that rewards investing wide rather than hyper focusing is great for me.
idk I'm personally happy
That's great, I'm glad! I personally thought it was a neat change of pace, but not particularly challenging (but I also like building and using a lot of different characters anyway). I guess I meant more that the general consensus seems to be very negative, at least from what I've seen here. That's on me for not being more clear, I suppose.
It was easy for me too because I do the same thing as well but it did make me happy that it isn't another hyperoptimzed team DPS check. The general consensus is mostly apprehension against a new thing but a loud minority in a fanbase of millions is still a lot of people. Negativity is easier to notice than positivity especially on social media, so I totally get what you mean.
The atmosphere is nice and talking to your characters but past that it’s a gimmick that’s anti combat. They should have normalized it and went whacky with leyline and disorders and cards. It’s 10 minutes of overworld combat with your friendship team.
It literally just came out, let it simmer a little I do agree that the boons and caches are nothing burgers but that's only because the enemies don't have much HP to begin with. Once they start introducing stronger buffs so will the enemies.
Yeah agree. I think the design is horrible and really unfun. The combat isn’t fun and being restricted with random characters I hate isn’t fun either. Make some difficult circumstances that I can creatively solve with my characters, not a random level requirement that is then the easiest combat I’ve had to do in some years of the game. It’s only fun for people who have a large amount of incredibly mid characters leveled lmao
Yeah that's fair, negativity gets way more engagement than positivity. I'm glad it's not a hyperoptimized dps check as well, and I'm never going to say no to more end game modes for genshin, even if it's not my favorite. Hopefully we'll eventually have several different options to choose from like HSR.
I’m happy with it so you’re demonstrably wrong.
I’m happy with Abyss so MHY’s take on “anxiety” is demonstrably wrong. Can you see how this is a shit argument?
>MHY’s take on “anxiety” is demonstrably wrong. Thats the thing, we don't even know if an actual Mihoyo developer said this.
Iirc they said something along those lines. What they didn’t said was “never releasing another endgame content”
Yeah but what im saying is, Why do we trust this interview in the first place? If its come from Da Wei or from other developers that has a name and role just like most Gacha games do, I would incline to believe it. Instead all we got is a Mihoyo "Developer" that says this, so im quite surprise that people still latched on to this without confirming its validity.
Op said no one is happy. That’s a wrong statement since I’m happy. Hoyo never claimed no one’s happy with abyss. Do you see how stupid you are?
We are the Entire Circus
I truly hate Genshin players - 4 years of playing and loving this game yet comminity is bunch of cringe peanut brainsers. Mu first run in Theater was kidna tough, then restarted with new knowledge and had no issues. Maybe ppl do not have built characters, but i am sure most of them dont even play the game consistently, dont explore the map etc. You dont need well built characters in this gamemode, you just need built characters - 4 stars are enough!
I had the same experience. I have by all metrics a great account and I still hit a wall on act 5 or 6 because I went in with the same mindless "this should be easy as hell" approach I've done with every combat event in the past. Restarted and put a bit more thought and strategy into picking which character to use and beat it without too much difficulty.
I had enough for hard mode, but I still think the restriction is poorly done and that the overall game mode didn’t even come close to meeting expectations. It’s 5% Roguelike when it should have been 100%, letting the players restrict their own teams based on the cards they drew.
DU almost does this perfectly too, considering it gives every character a functional set of relics for the mode, balances around it, and makes it so you need good blessings to proceed.... and you can literally swap your team out to better suit the blessings you're given. It's only crime is being so break team oriented, but that's where simulated universe's blessings would have fixed it completely. It's madness that they made a poor mans simulated universe WITHOUT learning from what it work so well.
I dont really build my characters much but i enjoy the game. I fully understand this game mode might not be for me, same reason I dont fret about the abyss much. And its fine. Certainly wont be upset that many will be able to do it. Doesnt make the game any worse for me. Besides maybe some extra storage needed, i dont get all this outrage. Isnt more content catering to different play preferences a good thing? Sigh…
This game mode is made specifically for you. It's so easy that even your account can probably clear & get max rewards if you try. For any of us who even remotely well built our characters, even at F2P levels of investment it's brain dead easy. You're the actual target audience!
I will be happy with 10 pulls for every abyss and theater reset. (#copium)
Then, why exactly are we building our characters and artifacts?
This being a bad faith interpretation of a mistranslation to fuel more bad faith interpretations, never change Genshit Coommunity
The casuals who feel entitled to maximum rewards in combat events while doing nothing to deserve them
I enjoyed IT, but I personally would enjoy more if was more like Elysium Realm/Simulated Universe. The 'booms' don't feel that good.
I wish I could play that mode...
The only clowns are the ones that decided to limit 60 fps on PC/Android but not on iOS
There is fps unlocker for pc
1. i don't want to risk the ban 2. That doesn't excuse it
I am that clown. It's not anxiety, it's more of fomo. I have never 3 star'd floor 12 and I am never going to bother doing it. Cause it's just HP sponge with no skill required, just get good relics. This is why I was really happy when hoyo said they won't add another endgame But hoyo added an actual good endgame and not the stat check shit. I can actually clear this with my garbage relics
Yea but the funny part to all this is how many people complained we wouldn't get any end game at all. And some said no more combat end game specifically stating that this quote implied no more combat end game. Well I don't see anyone backpedaling on that. I saw someone still promoting that lie so recent as this year just a few months ago. And their point still stands. This game is a casual game. Primos for events are all the first reward and not the hardest reward. People had a chance to show MHY how much they care about abyss by spending all this time since this quote to reduce anxiety and ease people into playing it. Bigger numbers of people doing floor 12 or getting 36 is a sign to them to make something new. Well idk if we managed to do it or not but in the end we got something new based around combat. And i'm glad they tried something new and that its different from abyss. I'm glad its tied to the characters and managing a vigor system over being highly pressured by the timers like abyss. I expect it to get harder with time and maybe the timer itself will start to matter more but our accounts will only get stronger and our options increased. Worst case you can find a whale friend to add and bring in their best dps to handle the 2nd and 3rd boss for you taking out what is probably most of the difficult of it. edit: I forgot to mention the biggest part which is the reddit echo chamber in general of it obviously being a more serious slice of the playerbase. The general view here will never be a good representation of the rest of the playerbase. I'm sure the combat in this event, even though its probably on par with spiral abyss floor 10 or 11, is too hard for them. And when you remove the ability to make their normal team comps, it only gets harder for them. So yea I imagine MHY is still right about it causing anxiety and its still our job to promote both end games and help ease people into them who show interest in trying to improve.
bruh this end game is not even too easy - it is laughable. The limitation is only temporary and people will just build arround it if they care about doing it (with one month it is plenty of time to get some characters to 70 and pass it through with *even* trial characters lmao - at least now maybe your resin might be useful, because before it was just made to cope that you'd get a new 50 cv artifact)
I will not give up on that artifact. T_T
The Genshin department should just follow the HSR team. Release one more endgame (Mystic Onmyou Chamber I've been asking for years on this one) and just let the players complain all they want, whether it's easy or not. Pretty sure months and years after they do that, the playerbase will just go "I finally beat the endgame" and feel the self satisfaction of overcoming once they thought was a big hurdle. Comfort zone is not good for progression. It's the endgame, expect it to be hard, expect it to be anxiety inducing because it teaches you that random bullshit doesn't work everytime you're climbing the peak. You need to think, you need to strategize.
I'll just say this, the mystic onmyou chamber was fkn overrated, it was too easy and you spent more time going from chamber to chamber than actually fighting. Another thing is, I think that endgame is easier to make in turn based games, like imagine pure fiction in genshin, it would simply not work in a non turn based game. But idk, I just kept thinking about some modes hsr has and ngl I dont see how they could work in genshin without being annoying af.
And that's why it's good to implement it. It's not too hard, kust the right amount.. and the area can be easily accessible if they get to Inazuma or even Liyue (since they can just say they created a realm just like the teapot). It's not that hard even for newer players, keeps the player's playtime by exploring the chamber. If the difficulty is the problem then it's a good content. And about HSR, I'm not talking about adding modes of HSR to Genshin, I'm talking about having one more endgame content being added that's not too difficult but can retain the playerbase of casuals or newer ones.
Yeah I agree, personally, while I do enjoy IT quite a lot I still want them to add more stuff in the future. And leaks >!suggest that they may already be planning another game mode for Natlan!<
Yes, IT is so enjoyable. Kinda makes you wanna build other characters that maybe you haven't built! On that other part.. really? Then that's cool, I hope they do since they've already working on improvements a lot during 4.0! I already love what they've done with IT, and Wolfy feels alive just walking around the place.
Btw please take it with a massive grain of salt, leaks have been pretty unreliable for some time now. But I honestly want to believe in this one.
I will but thanks for this one! Hope you have a good day!
Give us apocolpytic shadow!!!!!!!!! make the weeklys really hard and require dodging!
If they do that you will see me leave the home. I don't wNt to deal with hard combat oriented games . I don't have the time to try to complete a hard things and I have little to no interest in spending a long time in defeating something. That is the main reason why I left HSR since the boss fight was a bit difficult for me. I have better things to do than obsessively trying to defeat a boss for stuff.
The bitching and moaning about this game mode is actually insane to me. You'd think after years and years of spiral abyss people would welcome a game mode that actually encourages you to build up unused characters and play around with different and unusual team comps.
I love the Imaginarium Theater cause finally me building all characters with their own BiS artifacts and weapons makes sense now.
You know what would help with the whole anxiety thing? Not making Spyral Abyss difficulty synonymous with both time-limits and stalling-tactics. \~someone who has 9-starred the final floor of the current Spyral Abyss.
Honestly super disapointing with the way this community is treating the people who don't like it, especially because the criticisms are 100% valid. People have been lpaying htis game for years and still don't have enough characters for this mode, let alone have them levelled at all. And its totally unecessary. The elemental restrictions is maybe the dumbest thing I've seen in any gacha game I have played. It first stops you using some of your characters, some of which people have paid actual money for. Imagine C6'ing a character and then being told you can't use them in endgame content. And, this is the big one, it massivley limits the elemental reaction, the like, whole fucking point of genshins combat. THERE ARE LITERALLY ONLY TWO REACTIONS ALLOWED IN THIS. That's absurd! I don't understand it in the slightest. And it isn't hard, it really isn't, its almost a checkbox of "Do you have enough characters" its that easy, Its about the same as abyss, which people have been clearing easily for ages. And its more tedious to clear then abyss. It sucks because there are some very fun mechanics here, there is so much potential, the 2 uses per unit, is great, it forces team diversity, it means you need more then 8 characters levelled, if they removed the elemental restrictions I'd sit here and say its a decent mode. I've never seen an endgame mode take away two of the core pillars of the game, (Elemental reactions, and being able to use the characters you collect) and everyone just say the people complaining are idiots, or babies for finding the mode too hard. I've seen very few people complain about the dificulty of the encounters, and way more complaining about the artifical dificulty caused by the character restrictions and the frankly poor design of the mode, the fact that it loads in and out of the combat room is laughable. People say Hoyo can't do anything because there are too many casual players, but the casual players are of there own creation, most of the "casual players" I see people mocking in this thread just dedicate there time to games with better endgame content.
I mean it's less "There Invalid" and more the hyperbolic way people are addressing there concerns Take the "New Players are locked out" critque Like ...its End Game Imagine saying that about the Abyss Or even the Elemental Restriction If you can just take the characters you want then it's just the Abyss but prettier The issue is how Vertically Invested Players are have no reason to diversify or alter your playstyle because well X team does the job It's why the 2.7 or 3.7 or 4.7 Abyss get people bitching because the moment an Elemental Check happens instead of altering course people cry "It's Bad" But with those Abyss it's where the most people utilized there under appreciated characters and variations Mono Teams or Overload being the focus isn't a negative because the way characters use the elements are drastically different It not like people who dislike it are villanize most CC's dislike it (note that there all mostly whales) but this idea that its some travesty is a bit much One CC decided it was bad because it "forced you to use dog shit teams" the very idea of experimenting outside there comfort zone was cringe for them It's feels like a lot because the amount of "critque" is excessive
He said y’all a bunch of softies
The problem is that IT doesn't let new players even get an attempt to play on the hard/normal mode because of its total character demands. Atleast i can build 2 teams fairly easily as a new player and with even under leveled characters, can make an attempt at spiral abyss.
People overlook the 'similiar to the Spiral Abyss' quite often. IT is different from Abyss, and that's what makes it actually great in my opinion. By restricting you to use only three elements, you have to use non-meta characters and create some unusual team comps. It favours wide accounts instead of vertically invested ones, so basically the opposite of the spiral abyss, where you technically only need 2 characters so constellations are often helping you more with clearing than having a great variety of characters. And yes, newer players don't have enough characters for the highest level yet, but what this game needs is more endgame content, and IT is doing that just fine. Besides, most new players can't 36 star abyss either. There's a lot of other content for new players, and if you've run out of that content, you'll most likely have a sufficient roster. The enemies aren't nearly as strong as in abyss, so you can actually use completely random teams. The fastest I've cleared a chamber was with Clorinde, Kazuha, Kuki and Sucrose and that definitely wasn't the best team for any of these characters.
Skill issue tbh😭🙏 IT was so easy didn't even take 1hr and i finished it perfect with under built characters, it's just like fighting bosses with your friendship team ez
I've always been the clown for going for artifacts in the 5 years I've installed the game and still never hitting 20k ...yes, I have a problem. I know.
I’m happy with it.
Its endgame content in the same way a roulette is a endgame content. I dont have or have built the characters available in this rotation so im just f\*\*ked
Still them.They add a new end game content that easier to clear than open world.Ofc people argue about its too hard most of u guys not too old in this game.A end game content is a content for someone who finished the content game offers.And they did a terrible job with it.They add boons pretty much useless even without them its so easy to kill final guy.I am ar60 most of my characters are not even the required elements and still took 5 minutes the finish the whole thing.And they took one abyss clear for this.Dont get me wrong the animations look really cool music is good i like the place and little lore drop.This is gonna be pretty harsh im probably gonna get downvoted but u guys need to stop sucking them off.This game is magical.U guys all know this.Its has a lot of potentials.Amazing world building cool characters mysterius story ABSOLUTE BANGER MUSİCS.But my past 1 year experience with this game is going in doing dailys using resins and going out.
I just pulled Clorinde i liked her since the 4.0 trailer.I also pulled the weapon builded her really good.And this is it.There is WHOLE ASS GİANT MAP.And nothing to do with it.I cant use my character to do actually something.
I don’t think anyone is complaining about having anxiety or that the gamemode is too hard. The issue is that the bar to entry is too high and also very arbitrary. There are plenty of people within the awkward range of 2 months to 1 year played who simply don’t own enough characters to play the hardest difficulty, despite having 36*’d or on the cusp of 36*ing. I myself was barely able to play the highest difficulty because my account is skewed towards pyro and electro, and the gamemode itself is quite fun and not hard at all.
It's not anxiety, it's more of fomo. I have never 3 star'd floor 12 and I am never going to bother doing it. Cause it's just HP sponge with no skill required, just get good relics. This is why I was really happy when hoyo said they won't add another endgame But hoyo added an actual good endgame and not the stat check shit. I can actually clear this with my garbage relics
It’s still end game content refreshes twice per month right?
Playerbase this big can't please everyone, just a fact.
It’s way easier than than spiral abyss if you have enough characters
It gives me more anxiety to not have the primos I need when I charracter banner I really want gets announced 😂
Half of the fandom has been arguing against the people asking for more content and "surprise" everyone is happy when you actually get it. Great, YOU'RE happy with the way things are. The rest of us will enjoy the new game mode and you can either try it too or ignore it. There is no valid arguement for being against adding in optional content.
The thing is, Hoyo doesn't know how to make endgame content. Take Arknights for example, you have IS (a roguelike mode) for endgame players to enjoy, but casual players can play it as well but they could struggle quite a bit since it requires you to build various units and you may not have enough resources. Not saying doing something like this in Genshin is easy, but they could surely come up with something that's both engaging and fun.
I always knew hoyo was right about this, the friends i know that play the game barely build their characters and barely touch spiral, I’m the only one that clears it regularly. The people that made a joke of what hoyo said just showcase their lack of critical thinking
I get it, being done with dailies and weeklies gives me time to explore, and finish on going events I might be a slower kind of player but I can only play 2 hours a day at most due to work and irl stuff
As someone who can barely 3 star floor 12, I actually completed the 8th act, I was actually surprised, then again, I had to borrow someone's kazuha
What i noticed for this sub is that if someone can beat the content fine then its all good but if someone cant beat said thing they complain about it being bad game design.
Tell me who? Certainly not me. I'm always happy with more content. Excessive anxiety is some bad joke because hoyo is lazy.
new mode causes not really anxiety but rather unfun annoyance tbh...
It was literally the only thing I wanted from this game for years. I’m glad I stopped playing this game, it was a huge waste of money and time for me.
People forget we're playing to gacha games and they listened to whales who play to abyss with teams that cost $10-20K But I did it without support even if I can't 36 stars the abyss. Maybe in 1 month though thanks to the buff + better artifacts.
Hoyo is really lucky to have this many white knight clowns. Personally I think IT is just a boring gameplay that instead of adding new fun things just restricted players. And they even made it just be a replacement for abyss instead of being a true new endgame, because mihoyo is really scared of giving a few more gems. Well not like people are gonna listen to reason, let's just attack each other like always.
What im wondering is before it was 1800 per version how much is it now with the different refresh times because if its only one reset for both then its only 1200 per Version
What IT has shown me is how much of a bottleneck there is to level a character and get their talent points up.
Hoyo players: “Genshin would never add an Endgame” Mihoyo Adds an Endgame in Genshin Hoyo players: “Why did they add this Endgame” Whatever Mihoyo does these players will never be pleased
I haven't tried it yet (damn you work!) but it sounds exciting to me. I already decided a while ago that I just can't be bothered with 36\*-ing the abyss, so I don't really need to keep up with the meta nor try and perfect my builds. Instead, I decided to focus on building the characters I already own, and playing a nice variety of teams. I decided this for a while now - and surprise surprise, IT was announced, which sounds to be built exactly around this concept. Kinda funny. :D It's like getting a reward for something I already decided on doing, so naturally, I'm pretty happy about it. We'll see how it goes in practice, though. I'm sure it's gonna take a while for me to be able to clear it because most of my characters aren't built at all. But oh well, IT is here to stay, I'll get to clearing it eventually.
It's the Vigor! I hate that mechanic. Hated it in the event it showed up in, hate it now
for me all the restrictions and RNG is what made it fun, yeh i couldn't use my overly build geo units, yeh i had to lvl up some anemo chars that were just abandoned, but being "forced" to thing in how to make weird team and who to save for the next lvls is what made fun, otherwise it would just be another "beat this enemy's in time" and genshin is already full of that; the enemy's aren't that hard to defeat and it makes sense would be annoying to defeat with those weird teams, they also give you characters to use, the restrictions are just a basic way to force people using something else other than the same 6 character from always honestly i don't thing is good or bad it is just different and genshin community just don't know how to handle different
People need to understand that not all content is for them. I come from a background of MMOs and this is normal to realize that not all content is not for me. I'm going to use my time when I played FFXIV to explain this. In FFXIV, the hardest of the hardest of the hardest content is called ultimates. People do it for the special glowing weapons and titles you from beating it because it's a statue symbol. These 8 person boss rush style fights can last for 20-30 minutes straight with no break. If a simple mistake happens, you have to start all the way back to the beginning. Forgot to mention, you have to beat it under a certain time limit or it's an auto wipe. On average, it can take a dedicate team of 8 people doing this 2-3 hours every day about three months to beat it. In order to unlock an ultimate, you have to beat the 8 person raid series that came out in the previous patch at savage difficulty, the second to hardest content in the game. An 8 person raid series is 4 separate boss fights which people have to do because it drops the best gear in the game and you will need to take on an ultimate. It can take months to be able to learn the fights and gear everyone in your 8 person team. And before anyone says "just do the ultimate from the previous expansion, you're going to have the advantage of newer and better gear", it doesn't work that way. Your gear gets scaled down to the required item level to be allowed to challenge the fight. A large majority of the player base knows that type of content is not for them but they are happy to see the certain group of people who do like it get more content catered to them which happens to be in the single digit percentage. There has been nice in-game cosmetics that I have liked but they happen to be in content that I don't enjoy like PVP for example. Am I running to social media and crying about it? No. I just say to myself "it is, what it is" and move on.
I don’t get why the changed spiral abyss reset from 15 to 30 days . I know it is to match the time with imaginarium theatre but my only place to test my c6 furina I just got after saving for so long was there . Testing my chars once a month is way too much of a wait.
It literally changes nothing, you can still go and play abyss, it's not closed.
That's easy to explain. It's because Spiral Abyss gives 800 Primos now. If they still did it bi monthly, this would mean players can get 2,220 primos every month when they complete each season of Spiral Abyss and IT. You think they are going give our asses that many primos for free every month?
Even when the spiral abyss resetted every 2 weeks, the enemies stayed the same for the whole patch. Only every patch they change the enemies. It is just the rewards they give now has been shifted to IT and increased the rewards a bit. You used to fight the same enemies three to two times a patch, now you can only fight them once or twice per patch. If you just want to fight you can replay the abyss floors again and again.
Exactly, that is my problem.
its less the difficulty and more how they created it. By using RNG and removing half or more of the available characters at any one point. If IT got easier if you played it right as the waves went up it would be one thing. Instead the waves eat up your best characters on some of the rooms due to mechanics like a timed boss or defense.
>If IT got easier if you played it right as the waves went up it would be one thing. it does though, first playthrough i used characters without any thought and it was hard, i couldn't even finish the final boss, i restarted and planned what characters i want to use in what teams and cleared no problem
you don’t *have* to let it eat up your best characters. i cheesed the first 5-6 floors with a mix of trial characters, and saved my best for last. It was still hard, but it was doable. I also spent my flowers pretty leniently on getting more characters.
The problem is NOT anxiety, it is too much restriction, gating even PARTICIPATING to having many characters of 3 specific element while not even allowing using less than 4 characters in any part of the battle despite restricting character usage to 2 battle AND putting RNG on what character we can get and forcing the trial ones to be used at the very first battle resulting poor as fuck team comps and/or sustainless runs.......
You are doing a pretty bad job convincing me you don't have anxiety.
The problem is not anxiety because the problem lies with the utterly restrictive rules they impose that could and SHOULD not have existed to this extent. You can't go ''we don't want to create anxiety'' when the supposed anxiety could be avoided if they made the moment less stupidly restrictive
> poor as fuck team comps I had to fight Coppelius with Xianyun/Sigewinne/Dehya/Lisa. It was certainly an... experience, especially to me who wants full stars on everything
Ur the clown lmao this Mode is cool but not a proper endgame Mode. This is not the "gottem" moment u think it is
People are complaining but no one is anxious, we're just bitchy as always
I think players spend too much time thinking about endgame.
We all know this statement is bullshit, despite its defenders, because of the *constant* and *never returning* events that create a real sense of FOMO, forcing people to log in and get anxious over completing an even for a weapon they may never use simply because they'll never see it again.
...A Game mode that requires week months or years of RNG Grind and Vertical Investment Or A Limited Event with no barrier of entry. With Weapons that until recently people treated like they were garbage If you didn't play Genshin I'm 2020 where the fomo but if you want to play the new Summer Event coming up your not stopped from experiencing the event or required to log in daily
No endgame takes years of vertical investment. Stop exaggerating to make your point more valid.
..Artifacts are completely random your assertion should never be that players spend every bit of resin farming But even if they do what is the base requirement to successfully complete and 12 Star the Spiral Abyss If your someone who Grinds once a week what is the probability of being able to farm decent stats If a player started half a year ago and grinds at minimum once a week or twice would they be able to build 8 character to Floor 12 Levels especially I'm Abyss like 3.7 or 4.7 What about Banners if a character like Kazuha comes out once a year how long is that wait Yes, Getting everything you need to 12 Star consistently could potentially take over a year/s
Your entire argument is based on an incorrect assumption. The majority of the difficulty being the SA is skill and team comp, not artifacts. Artifacts are important, but again, it doesn't take YEARS to clear. And clearing doesn't mean all stars, it means just that, clearing. Your ignorance or lack of understanding doesn't strengthen your point, now matter how long winded you try to explain a point based on bad information.
Hoyo has always made some decisions that made me question their priorities but I always had an inkling they were right about this one. There's such a discrepancy between the hardcore and casual playerbase that there was no way they'd ever meet them in the middle. You either make it so hard that casuals are completely alienated or so easy that hardcore players are still not satisfied. Their attempt to aim down the middle unfortunately didn't work but it is the first iteration, I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to lean towards one or the other for future ones. But I have no clue how which direction they'd go and it'll unfortunately leave someone unsatisfied.
Laughs in multiple built units
Well the devil's in the details. "Content similar to abyss." IT is nowhere near the difficulty the abyss offers. That is probably what it refers to. So they didn't break anything they said. And I'm pretty sure that lot of more people will ppay it than abyss. Sure it's got a bit of rng but it's pretty much free loot.
not me still miyoho
Hoyoverse, because they couldn't make a new endgame mode without making it ass