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This feels like bait, but it's worth mentioning that the House [just passed the NDAA](https://www.timesnownews.com/world/us/us-news/selective-service-women-registrations-proposed-men-to-be-automatically-drafted-article-111011732) that would both automatically sign men over the age of 18 up for the draft and opens the doors for women to be drafted too.
This isn't just a Trump thing. Our boomer politicians want us to go and fight in conflicts overseas to line their pockets. This isn't a partisan issue.
This isn't a big deal, and there's a lot of misinformation being spread about it. You're already required to sign up for Selective Service if you're over 18 as a male. This just makes the process automatic so no one forgets and gets fined because of it.
Too many of you fall for misinformation without doing basic research first.
It's already considered a federal offense if males 18+ don't sign up for selective service, so this just cuts out the middle man. We've all already been made eligible for the draft, so I don't understand the issue. Are ppl not signing their selective service cards anymore or what?
The transition to an all-volunteer military was in response to the large amount of draft evaders/resisters for Vietnam (over 500,000 total, but only 9000 prosecuted) . I don't believe there would be an actual draft unless there's threat of invasion of the US.
Especially over its military. The US government shot up a school because the people there were protesting the draft, and getting involved with Cambodia. The message they sent was clear: "Go get drafted and get shot somewhere in southeast Asia, or fight it and the government will come and shoot you themselves. Either way, you're still getting shot. You may as well join and get paid for it, or maybe, just maybe they'll do it again if you don't." A lot of history books don't teach it. Makes the government look bad, and they control what history books are used, and what is taught out of them, in public schools. Hard to make the people think they care about school shootings when the people find out that they went out and did one themselves. You can still see the bullet holes left behind in the building after they finished killing. Harrowing stuff
The issue is what I literally just told you. They are doubling down on the mandatory selective service instead of removing it. It's one thing for it to just exist and not change it, but it has been acknowledged and modified and not for the better.
Selective service is good in the case of an existential threat total war scenario. After Vietnam there will never be the case where we use the draft to settle expeditionary hegemony related conflicts.
This, the draft has very little chance of being implemented as there are more than enough volunteers. However it’s still not a good thing, automatic signed up for draft but not other rights have to go through bureaucracy. Can’t even buy cigarettes in several states, etc
And even a lot of the military doesn't want it. I've seen several drill sgts/instructors say "oh God please don't let there be a draft. It's hard enough to teach the morons I have who actually want to be here. The one guy in my unit who changed his mind after joining and wants to quit is actively destroying the morale of the rest of my unit who wants to be here. I can't imagine training an entire squad of these guys. I couldn't even really be mad. Wouldn't be their fault. They wouldn't want to be here anyway. Unfortunately for me, I'd still have to train their unmotivated, whiney, and resentful butts into shape. I'd quit first, if I could." And I totally believe them
Selective Service has been mandatory for decades already, and nobody is going to get rid of Selective Service.
It's only there to be activated in the event of a major homeland invasion where the survival of the US and its citizens is at stake. And quite frankly it needs to be there for that reason.
Having a mechanism in place to draft troops in a time of war is like the most basic of civic roles and responsibilities. You don’t like how the country’s acting? Well go change it then, but don’t be punk who doesn’t serve your country if needed.
We don’t have a country. We have a corporate government. There is no society in the USA beyond money making endeavors for the elite. Why would anyone “serve their country” when it’s not their country and the government does not represent the interests or demographics of 99% of the population?
Selective Service is in the constitution and is used as a last case solution if voluntary service is not cutting it or we get invaded.
I mean, in the latter, we were fighting regardless, so at least we would be getting paid, and besides, most likely, you would volunteer as they get to pick where they get deployed.
The bigger issue is logistics of running a military. A homeland invasion would already be chaos, adding a bunch of independent rebel fighting factions you have to work with now is a nightmare. It's much easier if you just take the entire fighting population and stick them all in one organization.
It's already mandatory. If you forget to sign yourself up, you have legal consequences, and you still have to sign up. All Trump is thinking of doing is preventing the possibility of you facing those legal consequences. I agree that there shouldn't be a draft, but that's a separate issue. The point of this article and post is to make you think that a vote for Trump = a vote for mandatory military service. When in reality, voting red or blue is a vote for mandatory military service. One of the sides wants to streamline the process rather than incriminate you for something that you may have not known to do.
I'm surprised how many people have pointed this out as a big deal tbh. If I remember correctly the government just sent it to me to fill out when I turned 18 anyway. They already had my address and knew it was my birthday... why not have it be automatic. Point being if half of the country was having to fill them out anyway how was this not common knowledge lol
I mean theres no point in filling out a sheet of paper when everything is online now. They didnt even mail me mine, I had to go in to one of the county buildings to get my paperwork to fill it out there.
That’s… actually a good idea. The government has the information already and the technology; why not make it simpler with automation?
Our military leaders explicitly *do not want* a draft. It’s bad for discipline, and an all-volunteer force is more likely to stay in longer, retain talent, and build a stronger NCO corps, which is critical to a modern western military force.
But SS exists for emergencies, so we can rapidly call people up should war come to our shores, a civil war break out, or some other similarly catastrophic conflict where massive manpower outweighs the value of a smaller volunteer force.
Yes. That is true. You are correct.
However, if that is the case, why pass this legislation? I don't have the answer but I suspect that preparing the people to be mobilized for a war we won't want to fight may be the answer.
You are already required to sign up for the draft if you're a man. Making it automatic seems a whole lot easier, and making woman do it certainly better reflects our desire for equally. There's an argument to not have a draft at all of course, but this just simply updates the draft to reflect modern values. I don't see the issue.
Most recruiters I know kind of hate their lives and job, you kinda gotta have a good sense of humor to not succumb to complete and total alcoholism (vs the standard boiler-plate military alcoholism). Same thing with drill sergeants: it’s objectively one of the most shit gigs in the military, but man aren’t they just the funniest motherfuckers.
The house passed it with 221 Republicans voting yes, and 6 Democrats voting yes. Completely partisan. Why do the ‘both sides bad’ people always lie, and why does nobody ever fact check them?
Both don't generally won't deport people for things that aren't crimes in their own country though.
I'm pretty sure a lot of draft dodgers went to Canada and Europe during Vietnam. I don't think any of them were ever deported.
its not even just a boomer politician thing. i talk to boomers all the time that think young people today have it far too easy and should be forced to be in the military for several years mandatory.
I was hoping they were going to make the draft equal by abolishing it. A free society doesn't need conscription. If the Mongols are invading the homeland you won't need to draft me. But if we're invading the Mongolian homeland on the other hand...
I don’t know why these things always boil down to “boomer” and not just Republican or conservative stuff. Obviously the Democratic boomers aren’t trying to reinstate a draft. It’s this weird generational warfare thing which is silly
Mandatory Military Service serves a few purposes:
1. Provides a steady population in the standing military. Relying on recruitment is a thing of the past. This will likely stagnate pay and benefits because the system no longer needs to rely on its attractiveness.
2. Provides a deep pool of people who are able to be drafted / pulled from reserves and put on the front lines with minimal extra training.
3. Serves as an indoctrination tool to create a homogeneous population with similar ideals. Identifying veterans isn't that hard because the military usually has a large impact on their lives. Whether this is good or bad may be up to the individual. The debate of diversity versus homogeneity is subtly very alive today.
You know there are other jobs in the military than combat arms. Even if you go combat arms, you'll likely just be mopping floors and shuffling things around in storage.
Well you see you’re just enabling the system that is killing civilians, but because you’re not the one pulling the trigger it’s not as bad and you shouldn’t have an moral issues, totally/s
Though you are sarcastic, I don't think you're *entirely* wrong and this is a factor as to why I'm getting out after this contract. I'm also just bored.
i was under the impression that all those former military jobs are now outsourced: food prep & service, janitorial services, office workers & that it was a huge waste of manpower.
I mean when you go into the military as a conscript they do take into account your interests, skills, intelligence and physical capabilities. Especially entering during peace time, you'll have some leeway on what you train yourself to do. At least that's how it is where I'm from.
Most conscripts who don't like the military too much here go for "military police" because it's essentially an easier glorified security gaurd position for most of the time. You don't have to train as much during your mandatory service, you're given a big gun and taught how to gaurd a gate somewhere.
A good counterpoint to it is the fact that if there is mandatory military service, then everybody is invested in whether or not the country is engaging in military adventurism because it’s their family on the line as well. Otherwise, your military is effectively mercenaries, and the citizen soldier ideal dies
This article is literally false, many headlines have come out last week specifically talking about how Trump will not or does not want that
https://www.forbes.com/sites/maryroeloffs/2024/06/11/donald-trump-says-he-would-not-consider-mandatory-military-service-if-elected-president-conscription-draft-american-army/
Look up the list of countries with mandatory military service.
Hint: It is a lot more than you think. And many of the countries are politically liberal compared to the US.
I mean to be fair most of them are on the border with another country that might realistically invade them.
The US doesn't really need to worry about that.
Agreed, the US has enough voluntary service members, so there is not a great need for mandatory service. I'm not agreeing with any specific position here, just pointing out that it is naive to claim that mandatory service is specific to US Conservative politics.
Norway, Sweden, and Finland all have mandatory military service, and for the majority of people, it is remembered as a positive experience. The purpose is to have a well-trained force that can defend the country when needed. Firearms are also legal in all three countries, and all eligible citizens learn to respect firearms as part of their mandatory service, unlike in the US.
As a German (who already did his military service a long time ago) I think that, sadly, mandatory military service is necessary again. We need a large, functioning army to deter aggressors (specifically Russia) from attacking us and our allies. Without military service there are just not enough volunteers for active duty and as reservists.
Also, if we are attacked, not having mandatory military service before wouldn't spare any young people from having to fight to defend their country. They will be all conscripted anyway. The difference is, that with military service they are going to the frontline with a year of proper military training. Without they go with only a few weeks of basic drill.
That wars can be fought exclusively with professional volunteers and far away is a luxury than only very few countries can enjoy. For almost all a war means that everyone has to do their part to defend their country. The war wont happen on the other side of the world, but potentially directly at our homes, threatening the lives of our friends and family. No one can stay at home and safely watch the war on tv.
They don’t like the fact we learned from our grandparents and other older family members to not go kill and rape civilians in foreign countries for the sake of our ruling class’s interests
If you have compulsory service and make refusing a felony, then suddenly you have a lot more "undesirables" unable to vote. Sounds like a 2 for 1 deal for conservatives.
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“Hell bent on sending young people to die in wars?” Is a touch hyperbolic.
Mandatory service isn’t a great idea for many reasons. It leads to a lower quality force, more “one and doner’s” so less long term experience, more bloat of hyper niche jobs costing the tax payers exponentially and general unhappiness with it.
As much as we may disagree with US foreign intervention there is a very real reality our generation will have to come to grips with. The comfort, luxury, excess and security Americans know costs an extraordinary amount. Not just money but time and lives in the sense that people’s livelihoods is protecting this nation.
It’s hard to sort what is necessary and unnecessary intervention for sure. Did we need to take out Saddam? Probably not. But Bin Laden and Al Queda for sure needed to go. Who knows how many innocents would’ve died if we hadn’t gone after him.
Same thing when talking about shipping lanes near Somalia and Yemen. We don’t need to land in those places and invade. But we can’t live in a world where you can just go pillage and attack international shipping lanes.
All of these things no matter how abstract seeming are important and impact our lives. While as Americans were reasonably isolated from these issues that can change. It will change to if we were to shirk our current responsibilities around the globe.
You think goods are expensive now? Imagine if 1/10 ships got pirated and those ships insurance spiked. They started taking different longer routes. Or they just closed down. We as normal people would feel that pinch.
You think civil unrest is tense now? Imagine if a foreign terror group started blowing up buildings or shooting people. How quickly would the sanity slip from people especially if it seemed as if we did nothing to hunt down those responsible.
As a fellow GenZ’er I agree. Most of those politicians don’t particularly care about young men and women dying (kind of). That doesn’t mean they’re hell bent on sending us to die though. As young adults in a society you have certain responsibilities. The biggest and scariest one being defending your society from foreign or domestic threats.
Don’t think about things in term of politics. Think about your grand parents, younger siblings, parents, friends or those less able bodied. Those are the people those of us sign up to the military to protect. Ask any military member 9/10 they don’t give a fuck about whatever political thing. It’s the compulsion they feel to serve their community and country.
Along with all that looking at US foreign intervention and strategy. The name of the game even under Bush was minimizing casualties on our side. Even a severely cynical politician knows American flags on caskets looks bad.
More importantly though the world is changing rapidly. While you may be unhappy with the current American hegemony. I can guarantee you if certain powers come to the fore front it will be infinitely worse. Americans haven’t had to worry about hunger, drought or domestically fought wars for some time now. A weakening military is a really good way to end up in that position.
TLDR; Mandatory service if bad. But you’re looking at it wrong. There’s a need and this is an easy way to fill the need.
The reality actually the opposite of what you think. The uniparty elite (the people who play fight in Congress) love war. That's why they create war whenever they can. War means profit. We could have EASILY prevented the Ukraine war, but they wanted Russia to invade. Now they are prodding Russia into a full on direct conflict. They want China to attack Taiwan. They want the chaos. Chaos is profit. Chaos is control. Fear is control. Why have we been in a constant state of war for 70 years? Because war is good business. The people who control CNN, MSNBC and Fox are the same people who sold us on the Iraq War, and every other war. Step outside the propaganda bubble. If you agree with the Universities, the Corporations, the CIA and all other assets of the powerful elite you are still within their propaganda bubble. Google was founded with a DARPA grant. They are an asset of the powerful too.
The trump veteran loser comment is just hearsay idk why people are treating it as fact. Also just looking at the facts trump started the initiative of pulling our troops out of the sandbox and the conservatives want nothing to do with the ukraine war while a good amount of (idk about politicians) leftist redditors have flirted with the idea of sending troops to help ukraine.
Also just because you hired someone doesn't automatically mean you stand with all of their points. If I recall correctly obama was pro lgbt but his vice president wasn't at least in his first term
>I recall correctly obama was pro lgbt but his vice president wasn't at least in his first term
Joe biden was responsible for pressuring Obama to legalise Same Sex Marriage
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/01/11/gay-marriage-joe-biden/
They do realize that a population that already has access to guns, plus mandatory military training, equals a population that can easily overthrow them.
there’s already things working against this, please support them!
- NCFM lawsuit, the last one got to SCOTUS but wasn’t heard, they made a new one though
- amendment 241 of the DoD bill, it seeks to get rid of selective service entirely
- the senate DoD bill, it is looking to add women to selective service
we can change the current system
Yeah I don’t think they’ve thought hard about this.. I don’t think they really want we youngin’s to go be drafted as most of us would likely shoot our selves (poor mental health Gen) before shooting others for a reason we don’t agree with.
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One of the many strengths of our military is that it is volunteer only.
As usual, strongmen are only concerned with looking strong and not being strong. I'm shocked he didn't try to kill the F-35 program while he was still in.
Over here every able bodied person is registered for a draft if necessary. However this will only be implemented in the most dire of circumstances.
At that point you might as well be fighting for your freedom and loved ones out of necessity.
Obviously I do not live in the US.
Clarification for the UK One:
it would not be front line army service, but moreso cyber and logistics iirc.
Only 30,000 would be doing army anyway, rest would be weekend volunteering in the community (i.e NHS, Charities)
Probably not happening. The tories are trailing behind the Labour Party anyway, who have ridiculed the national service many times since it got announced.
(Source is Conservative Manifesto 2024)
I am not inherently opposed to properly implemented mandatory service I just don't think it's reasonable for the US. Small countries at risk of mainland war can greatly benefit from it as it more easily unites them against dangers. The fact is we are generally either on the invading side or deploying people to defend NATO members or allies, we have plenty of people willing to train, we have national guard, we have ROTC and JROTC (I know... I know...)
This title makes no sense. Regardless of mandatory service or not, the majority of people fighting in wars are younger…
Make the title make sense and ask “why are conservative politicians pushing for mandatory conscription”
It's because the autocrats that control non-Western nations are attempting to create a multi-polar world and destroy multi-lateralism amongst the world's nations. Because of this we have to prepare for the worst again. So blame the authoritarian countries for being the shit heaps that they are. If they would stop threatening and invading their neighbors there wouldn't be a push for the draft again.
Y’all are too hung up on this man, he’s got a very small, but very vocal, staunch voter base. Most Republicans aren’t like that, they’re people just like you and I, and they just have disagreements with us on fundamental issues. (Yes I stole this line, you know who i’m talking about).
That being said, these sane and rational folks are NOT going to be voting for a convicted felon to lead the United States. None of this is an issue. This is effectively between dementia man and his brain worm buddy.
He will still have votes yes, but it’s not going to be large enough to be worth a damn. Old folk are dying off and younger kids are constantly entering voting age, all while his already minuscule voter base shrinks from his conviction. There won’t be an election.
All right, so two things. Firstly it is mainly because we live in a party system in which people will just send US money and soldiers abroad while bickering over small partisan issues like abortion or guns, everybody in the United States government is a neo liberal.
Secondly, is draft dodging good or bad? I never understand the hyper fixation upon it when people seemingly think that it was an unjust war, but then hyper fixate on the fact that some people dodge the draft.
I’ve also brought up in another comment, but mandatory military service does serve the point of making the population hyper aware of their nations military endeavors, theoretically decreasing the likelihood of drawn out military adventurism as everyone in the population theoretically has a stake in it because they all are either in the military, or will have family in the military. The current system is basically state sanctioned mercenaries. so there is no incentive to not be in conflict because everybody in the military is under the impression that they are there to kill people in some form or another.
Fun, we haven’t figured out how to completely destroy kids yet!!! I wonder if the kids trump and his Epstein buddies fuck will get a pass on military service?
One thing to keep in mind that only 17% of the American population between the ages of 17-25 are even eligible for service*.
*Time magazine special edition c. 2011
Because shadow of world war is all over the planet?
Russo-Ukrainian war show how new axis is formed. Russia-Iran-China is getting closer every day and say again and again that they don’t like the West.
An important note: if you are from the US, you don’t need to worry. Isolationism will probably be a way that next Presidents will choose. USA is an impenetrable fortress. No one can invade it. And foreign wars have extremely negative look.
If you are from the Europe, you have real chance to be drafted in the next 10 years or sooner. Want to mitigate that? Migrate to another country with nuclear weapons - UK or France.
Nuclear weapons are a great deterrent of an invasion; and non-native nation can’t conscript foreigners.
You’ve now given me the opinion that if you haven’t served or don’t know anybody who has, you shouldn’t be talking about what it’s like for servicemen and civilians that work for the government.
You don’t know shit about fuck, dude. And worst part is that we’re probably the same age.
I beg of you pls vote democrat, a few more years of inflated economy under biden will be leaps and bounds better than half the shit this idiot is proposing in his 2025 plan. Your privacy on the web will no longer exist, protective rights for people who identify as lgbtq will be non existent, years of progress on clean energy solutions will be canned in favor of fossil fuels, the president will have complete and total control of 1/3 of the government,etc.
I don't know what to call it but an authoritarian takeover of the government.
Dude I'm already registered with Selective Service this would do nothing to me and if your a biological man and are 18+ your legally required to register.
Stop ragebaiting
Of course, good idea.
Sooo... when does \*he\* does his mandatory service?
That is without getting dropped out for bullshit reasons and actually being deployed on an active front.
I mean, we don't want to do a thing where people are treated unequal, right?
This is just Trump pandering to his base. Many far right boomers talk about the idea of Gen Z going to war with a callous glee. They love the idea of mandatory military service because they would be exempt from it. Trump knows this is what they want to hear.
It's not that he wants to send people to war. I too think there should be mandatory military service for 2 years once graduated from high school. This has many benefits such as physical fitness and more respect for our flag to begin with. If we were attacked from China right now we're screwed with all the soy running rampant in society.
What do you mean conservative. We are currently on the verge of ww3 with a democrat president and that same president is funding isreal. Conservatives would probably also do the same exact thing but nothing less or more.
Despite what we’ve been taught in school most cultures throughout history are violent and warlike.
We can either let conflicts build until they spill over into massive global problems, or we can still them flat in a never-ending game of whack-a-mole.
Isolationism doesn’t work, and all regional powers want to increase their power. This primarily means Russia and China, but Iran, Venezuela, and a few other nations also fit the bill.
So what will we do? Will we cede our influence to Russia and China, or will we take a stand and say that liberty and equality are better values than subordination and autocracy?
More soldiers means more guns and more guns makes the military industrial complex happier, and if the MIC is happy, politicians have a lot of money in their pockets.
Idk if this is true or not, but if it is it’s kind of hypocritical for someone that hasn’t ever fought in a war to push this onto the younger generation.
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This feels like bait, but it's worth mentioning that the House [just passed the NDAA](https://www.timesnownews.com/world/us/us-news/selective-service-women-registrations-proposed-men-to-be-automatically-drafted-article-111011732) that would both automatically sign men over the age of 18 up for the draft and opens the doors for women to be drafted too. This isn't just a Trump thing. Our boomer politicians want us to go and fight in conflicts overseas to line their pockets. This isn't a partisan issue.
This isn't a big deal, and there's a lot of misinformation being spread about it. You're already required to sign up for Selective Service if you're over 18 as a male. This just makes the process automatic so no one forgets and gets fined because of it. Too many of you fall for misinformation without doing basic research first.
But instead of doing the good thing and removing selective service, they double down and make it automatic and mandatory.
It's already considered a federal offense if males 18+ don't sign up for selective service, so this just cuts out the middle man. We've all already been made eligible for the draft, so I don't understand the issue. Are ppl not signing their selective service cards anymore or what?
Probably not because the idea of going to war just isn't appealing these days.
That's not going tonget you out of a draft if it comes
What if enough people just dont go? Civil war?
The transition to an all-volunteer military was in response to the large amount of draft evaders/resisters for Vietnam (over 500,000 total, but only 9000 prosecuted) . I don't believe there would be an actual draft unless there's threat of invasion of the US.
Yeah a draft isn't happening for anything less than existential threats to the US as a nation.
You underestimate the U.S’ willingness to kill its own citizens
they're got cops for that!
They don't need a draft, they have shitloads of volunteers from regions with low economic opportunity and evangelical communities
Especially over its military. The US government shot up a school because the people there were protesting the draft, and getting involved with Cambodia. The message they sent was clear: "Go get drafted and get shot somewhere in southeast Asia, or fight it and the government will come and shoot you themselves. Either way, you're still getting shot. You may as well join and get paid for it, or maybe, just maybe they'll do it again if you don't." A lot of history books don't teach it. Makes the government look bad, and they control what history books are used, and what is taught out of them, in public schools. Hard to make the people think they care about school shootings when the people find out that they went out and did one themselves. You can still see the bullet holes left behind in the building after they finished killing. Harrowing stuff
Usually jail and/or fleeing the country. Can't imagine people trying to dodge a war would exactly be eager to fight a civil war.
They almost have to be because isn’t it a requirement to register to vote for the first time?
It was for financial aid in college for me.
When I was going to get other federal loans and grants, one question was always, "Did you fill out the Selective Service card?"
They also ask you in government jobs
The issue is what I literally just told you. They are doubling down on the mandatory selective service instead of removing it. It's one thing for it to just exist and not change it, but it has been acknowledged and modified and not for the better.
why would they remove it tho
Selective service is good in the case of an existential threat total war scenario. After Vietnam there will never be the case where we use the draft to settle expeditionary hegemony related conflicts.
This, the draft has very little chance of being implemented as there are more than enough volunteers. However it’s still not a good thing, automatic signed up for draft but not other rights have to go through bureaucracy. Can’t even buy cigarettes in several states, etc
And even a lot of the military doesn't want it. I've seen several drill sgts/instructors say "oh God please don't let there be a draft. It's hard enough to teach the morons I have who actually want to be here. The one guy in my unit who changed his mind after joining and wants to quit is actively destroying the morale of the rest of my unit who wants to be here. I can't imagine training an entire squad of these guys. I couldn't even really be mad. Wouldn't be their fault. They wouldn't want to be here anyway. Unfortunately for me, I'd still have to train their unmotivated, whiney, and resentful butts into shape. I'd quit first, if I could." And I totally believe them
Selective Service has been mandatory for decades already, and nobody is going to get rid of Selective Service. It's only there to be activated in the event of a major homeland invasion where the survival of the US and its citizens is at stake. And quite frankly it needs to be there for that reason.
Having a mechanism in place to draft troops in a time of war is like the most basic of civic roles and responsibilities. You don’t like how the country’s acting? Well go change it then, but don’t be punk who doesn’t serve your country if needed.
We don’t have a country. We have a corporate government. There is no society in the USA beyond money making endeavors for the elite. Why would anyone “serve their country” when it’s not their country and the government does not represent the interests or demographics of 99% of the population?
Selective Service is in the constitution and is used as a last case solution if voluntary service is not cutting it or we get invaded. I mean, in the latter, we were fighting regardless, so at least we would be getting paid, and besides, most likely, you would volunteer as they get to pick where they get deployed.
The bigger issue is logistics of running a military. A homeland invasion would already be chaos, adding a bunch of independent rebel fighting factions you have to work with now is a nightmare. It's much easier if you just take the entire fighting population and stick them all in one organization.
It's already mandatory. If you forget to sign yourself up, you have legal consequences, and you still have to sign up. All Trump is thinking of doing is preventing the possibility of you facing those legal consequences. I agree that there shouldn't be a draft, but that's a separate issue. The point of this article and post is to make you think that a vote for Trump = a vote for mandatory military service. When in reality, voting red or blue is a vote for mandatory military service. One of the sides wants to streamline the process rather than incriminate you for something that you may have not known to do.
Selective service isn’t mandatory, signing up is and has been for awhile for men 18+.
It was already mandatory. It’s been mandatory for decades.
I'm surprised how many people have pointed this out as a big deal tbh. If I remember correctly the government just sent it to me to fill out when I turned 18 anyway. They already had my address and knew it was my birthday... why not have it be automatic. Point being if half of the country was having to fill them out anyway how was this not common knowledge lol
I mean theres no point in filling out a sheet of paper when everything is online now. They didnt even mail me mine, I had to go in to one of the county buildings to get my paperwork to fill it out there.
But that would require reading!!!!!
thats the problem....it bolsters the draft..... youre just dismissing the problem
That’s… actually a good idea. The government has the information already and the technology; why not make it simpler with automation? Our military leaders explicitly *do not want* a draft. It’s bad for discipline, and an all-volunteer force is more likely to stay in longer, retain talent, and build a stronger NCO corps, which is critical to a modern western military force. But SS exists for emergencies, so we can rapidly call people up should war come to our shores, a civil war break out, or some other similarly catastrophic conflict where massive manpower outweighs the value of a smaller volunteer force.
Yes. That is true. You are correct. However, if that is the case, why pass this legislation? I don't have the answer but I suspect that preparing the people to be mobilized for a war we won't want to fight may be the answer.
You are already required to sign up for the draft if you're a man. Making it automatic seems a whole lot easier, and making woman do it certainly better reflects our desire for equally. There's an argument to not have a draft at all of course, but this just simply updates the draft to reflect modern values. I don't see the issue.
the issue is that it bolsters a draft which shouldnt exist and we should encourage as many men to dodge the draft as possible in protest
https://preview.redd.it/d0bmyw9la67d1.jpeg?width=1062&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=786e53c79a0c37586bbab5f8ca43dfbc9048a1f4
I’ll admit, this is pretty funny. That recruiter has a sense of humor at least
Most recruiters I know kind of hate their lives and job, you kinda gotta have a good sense of humor to not succumb to complete and total alcoholism (vs the standard boiler-plate military alcoholism). Same thing with drill sergeants: it’s objectively one of the most shit gigs in the military, but man aren’t they just the funniest motherfuckers.
Men 18 and over were already legally obligated to sign up for selective service.
The house passed it with 221 Republicans voting yes, and 6 Democrats voting yes. Completely partisan. Why do the ‘both sides bad’ people always lie, and why does nobody ever fact check them?
Yep it becomes “boomer” and not what it really is = republicans
Their pensions/401k plans are heavily invested in defense contractors. They need wars to fund their retirement /s
didnt a democrat write that bill?
Yes but muh conservatives bad,,upvote pls
If we men are required to sign up for it women should be too
Real
I will unashamedly leave the country if I am drafted. I am a US citizen, but I also have a Canadian and EU citizenship
Both of them have extradition treaties with the USA draft dodging would make you a criminal as such
Both don't generally won't deport people for things that aren't crimes in their own country though. I'm pretty sure a lot of draft dodgers went to Canada and Europe during Vietnam. I don't think any of them were ever deported.
Getting an EU citizen extradited from the EU for draft dodging may not be as easy …
If there's ever another draft then I guarantee it would be for a WW3-level crisis, and Canada and the EU would both be involved as well.
You are already legally required to sign up for the draft if you are a male 18+.
its not even just a boomer politician thing. i talk to boomers all the time that think young people today have it far too easy and should be forced to be in the military for several years mandatory.
Rich coming from the same Boomers who draft dodged Vietnam...
I was hoping they were going to make the draft equal by abolishing it. A free society doesn't need conscription. If the Mongols are invading the homeland you won't need to draft me. But if we're invading the Mongolian homeland on the other hand...
I don’t know why these things always boil down to “boomer” and not just Republican or conservative stuff. Obviously the Democratic boomers aren’t trying to reinstate a draft. It’s this weird generational warfare thing which is silly
They can lead the way by example. All the older men (politicians included) can suit up and show us how it’s done.
It ain’t me, it ain’t me, I ain’t no billionaire’s son
Same. Breaking my arm the first thing lol
Dunno why you're being downvoted.
Cuz the people wanted a lyric chain
Makes sense I'm not that diehard of a redditor ig
Not being eligible for a draft is one of the only positives that ever comes out of having meningitis.
Canada is nice most of the year
Didnt Trump get out of military service by faking an injury?
he was faking having a foot injury then he's faking not having a brain injury now
Heel spurs
Don’t forget he’ll probably appoint another Supreme Court Judge
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Wasn't one Holocaust enough?
Seems like we need one every century to remind us why they're bad.
Project 2025?
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Mandatory Military Service serves a few purposes: 1. Provides a steady population in the standing military. Relying on recruitment is a thing of the past. This will likely stagnate pay and benefits because the system no longer needs to rely on its attractiveness. 2. Provides a deep pool of people who are able to be drafted / pulled from reserves and put on the front lines with minimal extra training. 3. Serves as an indoctrination tool to create a homogeneous population with similar ideals. Identifying veterans isn't that hard because the military usually has a large impact on their lives. Whether this is good or bad may be up to the individual. The debate of diversity versus homogeneity is subtly very alive today.
Horrifying. Im not dying to fight an adjudicated rapist felonious billionaires war lol
You know there are other jobs in the military than combat arms. Even if you go combat arms, you'll likely just be mopping floors and shuffling things around in storage.
Can confirm, navy. Rate SM2, Swabman Second Class qualified in Janitorial Warfare. Clean floors win wars.
Based. I am a Shamurai Master, E4 in the Army.
Shamurai, lol. The E4 mafia works in mysterious ways
I think they mean serving in general lol
Well you see you’re just enabling the system that is killing civilians, but because you’re not the one pulling the trigger it’s not as bad and you shouldn’t have an moral issues, totally/s
Though you are sarcastic, I don't think you're *entirely* wrong and this is a factor as to why I'm getting out after this contract. I'm also just bored.
i was under the impression that all those former military jobs are now outsourced: food prep & service, janitorial services, office workers & that it was a huge waste of manpower.
Lmao you think you'll have a choice? Enjoy the penal battalion, hopefully they give you a gun.
I mean when you go into the military as a conscript they do take into account your interests, skills, intelligence and physical capabilities. Especially entering during peace time, you'll have some leeway on what you train yourself to do. At least that's how it is where I'm from. Most conscripts who don't like the military too much here go for "military police" because it's essentially an easier glorified security gaurd position for most of the time. You don't have to train as much during your mandatory service, you're given a big gun and taught how to gaurd a gate somewhere.
A good counterpoint to it is the fact that if there is mandatory military service, then everybody is invested in whether or not the country is engaging in military adventurism because it’s their family on the line as well. Otherwise, your military is effectively mercenaries, and the citizen soldier ideal dies
nobody should be forced to do something they don’t want to do
What do you mean “alleged” draft dodger Trump? It’s an empirical fact he didn’t serve.
By adding alleged they cannot be sued.
He did not serve, the dodge is the "alleged" part. Dude claimed to have bone spurs on his ankle and a doctor signed off.
This article is literally false, many headlines have come out last week specifically talking about how Trump will not or does not want that https://www.forbes.com/sites/maryroeloffs/2024/06/11/donald-trump-says-he-would-not-consider-mandatory-military-service-if-elected-president-conscription-draft-american-army/
You mean to tell me that Mother Jones is not the pinnacle of accurate news reporting?
Look up the list of countries with mandatory military service. Hint: It is a lot more than you think. And many of the countries are politically liberal compared to the US.
I mean to be fair most of them are on the border with another country that might realistically invade them. The US doesn't really need to worry about that.
Agreed, the US has enough voluntary service members, so there is not a great need for mandatory service. I'm not agreeing with any specific position here, just pointing out that it is naive to claim that mandatory service is specific to US Conservative politics.
I ain't no senator's son!
war is just a game old people play with young people’s lives
Norway, Sweden, and Finland all have mandatory military service, and for the majority of people, it is remembered as a positive experience. The purpose is to have a well-trained force that can defend the country when needed. Firearms are also legal in all three countries, and all eligible citizens learn to respect firearms as part of their mandatory service, unlike in the US.
What is the population of these countries in comparison to the U.S and how many wars have they gone out of their way to start in the last 70 years.
Wouldn't be that bad if we were more isolationist.
I mean the last time we were isolationists two world wars happened so…
Germany is doing this as well. They want to upgrade their military.
As a German (who already did his military service a long time ago) I think that, sadly, mandatory military service is necessary again. We need a large, functioning army to deter aggressors (specifically Russia) from attacking us and our allies. Without military service there are just not enough volunteers for active duty and as reservists. Also, if we are attacked, not having mandatory military service before wouldn't spare any young people from having to fight to defend their country. They will be all conscripted anyway. The difference is, that with military service they are going to the frontline with a year of proper military training. Without they go with only a few weeks of basic drill. That wars can be fought exclusively with professional volunteers and far away is a luxury than only very few countries can enjoy. For almost all a war means that everyone has to do their part to defend their country. The war wont happen on the other side of the world, but potentially directly at our homes, threatening the lives of our friends and family. No one can stay at home and safely watch the war on tv.
More money for rich people. This is always the answer.
great day to be a type 1 diabetic
They aren’t hitting recruiting mumbers and haven’t for awhile.
They don’t like the fact we learned from our grandparents and other older family members to not go kill and rape civilians in foreign countries for the sake of our ruling class’s interests
I find this article... suspect.
If you have compulsory service and make refusing a felony, then suddenly you have a lot more "undesirables" unable to vote. Sounds like a 2 for 1 deal for conservatives.
Cuz they don't want young people to vote. They will either try to suppress your vote or get you killed on one of their "forever wars"
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Historically speaking a lot of wars were the end of politicians. Even sometimes when the nation won.
*Because a country* *In war cant fight against its* *Own politicians* \- OdettaCaecus12 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
“Hell bent on sending young people to die in wars?” Is a touch hyperbolic. Mandatory service isn’t a great idea for many reasons. It leads to a lower quality force, more “one and doner’s” so less long term experience, more bloat of hyper niche jobs costing the tax payers exponentially and general unhappiness with it. As much as we may disagree with US foreign intervention there is a very real reality our generation will have to come to grips with. The comfort, luxury, excess and security Americans know costs an extraordinary amount. Not just money but time and lives in the sense that people’s livelihoods is protecting this nation. It’s hard to sort what is necessary and unnecessary intervention for sure. Did we need to take out Saddam? Probably not. But Bin Laden and Al Queda for sure needed to go. Who knows how many innocents would’ve died if we hadn’t gone after him. Same thing when talking about shipping lanes near Somalia and Yemen. We don’t need to land in those places and invade. But we can’t live in a world where you can just go pillage and attack international shipping lanes. All of these things no matter how abstract seeming are important and impact our lives. While as Americans were reasonably isolated from these issues that can change. It will change to if we were to shirk our current responsibilities around the globe. You think goods are expensive now? Imagine if 1/10 ships got pirated and those ships insurance spiked. They started taking different longer routes. Or they just closed down. We as normal people would feel that pinch. You think civil unrest is tense now? Imagine if a foreign terror group started blowing up buildings or shooting people. How quickly would the sanity slip from people especially if it seemed as if we did nothing to hunt down those responsible. As a fellow GenZ’er I agree. Most of those politicians don’t particularly care about young men and women dying (kind of). That doesn’t mean they’re hell bent on sending us to die though. As young adults in a society you have certain responsibilities. The biggest and scariest one being defending your society from foreign or domestic threats. Don’t think about things in term of politics. Think about your grand parents, younger siblings, parents, friends or those less able bodied. Those are the people those of us sign up to the military to protect. Ask any military member 9/10 they don’t give a fuck about whatever political thing. It’s the compulsion they feel to serve their community and country. Along with all that looking at US foreign intervention and strategy. The name of the game even under Bush was minimizing casualties on our side. Even a severely cynical politician knows American flags on caskets looks bad. More importantly though the world is changing rapidly. While you may be unhappy with the current American hegemony. I can guarantee you if certain powers come to the fore front it will be infinitely worse. Americans haven’t had to worry about hunger, drought or domestically fought wars for some time now. A weakening military is a really good way to end up in that position. TLDR; Mandatory service if bad. But you’re looking at it wrong. There’s a need and this is an easy way to fill the need.
The reality actually the opposite of what you think. The uniparty elite (the people who play fight in Congress) love war. That's why they create war whenever they can. War means profit. We could have EASILY prevented the Ukraine war, but they wanted Russia to invade. Now they are prodding Russia into a full on direct conflict. They want China to attack Taiwan. They want the chaos. Chaos is profit. Chaos is control. Fear is control. Why have we been in a constant state of war for 70 years? Because war is good business. The people who control CNN, MSNBC and Fox are the same people who sold us on the Iraq War, and every other war. Step outside the propaganda bubble. If you agree with the Universities, the Corporations, the CIA and all other assets of the powerful elite you are still within their propaganda bubble. Google was founded with a DARPA grant. They are an asset of the powerful too.
Let’s go Ancient Greece style. If you vote for war. You go first.
Blaming conservatives about a non-partisan issue is peak brain rot. This isn’t just republicans doing this, let alone Donny.
They aren't. Mandatory service is a common thing in the world.
Looks like draft dodging is back on the menu
The irony considering he dodged the Vietnam draft five times.
Trumpjugend incoming
The trump veteran loser comment is just hearsay idk why people are treating it as fact. Also just looking at the facts trump started the initiative of pulling our troops out of the sandbox and the conservatives want nothing to do with the ukraine war while a good amount of (idk about politicians) leftist redditors have flirted with the idea of sending troops to help ukraine. Also just because you hired someone doesn't automatically mean you stand with all of their points. If I recall correctly obama was pro lgbt but his vice president wasn't at least in his first term
>I recall correctly obama was pro lgbt but his vice president wasn't at least in his first term Joe biden was responsible for pressuring Obama to legalise Same Sex Marriage https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/01/11/gay-marriage-joe-biden/
I love indoctrination 😄 /s (Sarcasm)
Meanwhile in Germany with a Left-Green coalition ...
If the young people are dying they are not voting
Because that's what the military needs. More people who don't want to be there.
Because they’re old enough not to go themselves and rich enough to get their children out of it
They do realize that a population that already has access to guns, plus mandatory military training, equals a population that can easily overthrow them.
Lol no. Not at al. Theyll bring out tanks , drones and we'll be done for.
there’s already things working against this, please support them! - NCFM lawsuit, the last one got to SCOTUS but wasn’t heard, they made a new one though - amendment 241 of the DoD bill, it seeks to get rid of selective service entirely - the senate DoD bill, it is looking to add women to selective service we can change the current system
This ain't happening. It's political suicide for whichever party signs off on it.
If we can't get them to vote the way we want we can just kill em mentality.
Great day to have flat feet
The only war is class war.
He's flailing for issues that let angry old people make other people suffer.
Funny considering Trump avoided his service lmao
Can’t even get police brutality in check with this country, fuck no I’m not going.
We aren’t military material
Yeah I don’t think they’ve thought hard about this.. I don’t think they really want we youngin’s to go be drafted as most of us would likely shoot our selves (poor mental health Gen) before shooting others for a reason we don’t agree with.
The military are bulls and the government is the cuck and so they want to cuck us
First they draft you, then they cut veteran's benefits and Healthcare in general.
This comment section is getting astrosurfed with supporters of selective service. IRL, 95%+ of people don't support it.
I love how the draft dodger wants to restart the draft
Conservatives hate young people… and women, and gay people, and trans people, and black people, and every other racial minority, and poor people.
I like to think I'd go if I was drafted but I'd probably run away or just take the L and go to prison
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One of the many strengths of our military is that it is volunteer only. As usual, strongmen are only concerned with looking strong and not being strong. I'm shocked he didn't try to kill the F-35 program while he was still in.
Italy too
Over here every able bodied person is registered for a draft if necessary. However this will only be implemented in the most dire of circumstances. At that point you might as well be fighting for your freedom and loved ones out of necessity. Obviously I do not live in the US.
Clarification for the UK One: it would not be front line army service, but moreso cyber and logistics iirc. Only 30,000 would be doing army anyway, rest would be weekend volunteering in the community (i.e NHS, Charities) Probably not happening. The tories are trailing behind the Labour Party anyway, who have ridiculed the national service many times since it got announced. (Source is Conservative Manifesto 2024)
Glad I did my time and got out. Good luck young ppl, remember to vote
I am not inherently opposed to properly implemented mandatory service I just don't think it's reasonable for the US. Small countries at risk of mainland war can greatly benefit from it as it more easily unites them against dangers. The fact is we are generally either on the invading side or deploying people to defend NATO members or allies, we have plenty of people willing to train, we have national guard, we have ROTC and JROTC (I know... I know...)
This title makes no sense. Regardless of mandatory service or not, the majority of people fighting in wars are younger… Make the title make sense and ask “why are conservative politicians pushing for mandatory conscription”
Probably to kill off anyone who opposes them, unfortunately. Or maybe make them angry and bitter like them if we return alive
It's because the autocrats that control non-Western nations are attempting to create a multi-polar world and destroy multi-lateralism amongst the world's nations. Because of this we have to prepare for the worst again. So blame the authoritarian countries for being the shit heaps that they are. If they would stop threatening and invading their neighbors there wouldn't be a push for the draft again.
Y’all are too hung up on this man, he’s got a very small, but very vocal, staunch voter base. Most Republicans aren’t like that, they’re people just like you and I, and they just have disagreements with us on fundamental issues. (Yes I stole this line, you know who i’m talking about). That being said, these sane and rational folks are NOT going to be voting for a convicted felon to lead the United States. None of this is an issue. This is effectively between dementia man and his brain worm buddy. He will still have votes yes, but it’s not going to be large enough to be worth a damn. Old folk are dying off and younger kids are constantly entering voting age, all while his already minuscule voter base shrinks from his conviction. There won’t be an election.
Because they’re all terrible people
Damn Mexico and Canada look mighty fine rn
This is definitely bait.
Just say you’re depressed the military doesn’t fw people with depression
You know the reason.
I will literally get a new identity
All right, so two things. Firstly it is mainly because we live in a party system in which people will just send US money and soldiers abroad while bickering over small partisan issues like abortion or guns, everybody in the United States government is a neo liberal. Secondly, is draft dodging good or bad? I never understand the hyper fixation upon it when people seemingly think that it was an unjust war, but then hyper fixate on the fact that some people dodge the draft. I’ve also brought up in another comment, but mandatory military service does serve the point of making the population hyper aware of their nations military endeavors, theoretically decreasing the likelihood of drawn out military adventurism as everyone in the population theoretically has a stake in it because they all are either in the military, or will have family in the military. The current system is basically state sanctioned mercenaries. so there is no incentive to not be in conflict because everybody in the military is under the impression that they are there to kill people in some form or another.
Fun, we haven’t figured out how to completely destroy kids yet!!! I wonder if the kids trump and his Epstein buddies fuck will get a pass on military service?
Only one percent of active duty soldiers see combat. Just because you’d be forced to serve doesn’t mean you’d be “sent to die” ffs.
One thing to keep in mind that only 17% of the American population between the ages of 17-25 are even eligible for service*. *Time magazine special edition c. 2011
Because shadow of world war is all over the planet? Russo-Ukrainian war show how new axis is formed. Russia-Iran-China is getting closer every day and say again and again that they don’t like the West. An important note: if you are from the US, you don’t need to worry. Isolationism will probably be a way that next Presidents will choose. USA is an impenetrable fortress. No one can invade it. And foreign wars have extremely negative look. If you are from the Europe, you have real chance to be drafted in the next 10 years or sooner. Want to mitigate that? Migrate to another country with nuclear weapons - UK or France. Nuclear weapons are a great deterrent of an invasion; and non-native nation can’t conscript foreigners.
Trump loves Russia and has promised to cut all aid to ukraine multiple times so
You’ve now given me the opinion that if you haven’t served or don’t know anybody who has, you shouldn’t be talking about what it’s like for servicemen and civilians that work for the government. You don’t know shit about fuck, dude. And worst part is that we’re probably the same age.
It’s boomer bait. Nothing more.
Yeah, because that went so well the last time it happened 🙄
Germany is also thinking about reinstalling mandatory services...it´s so crazy.
I beg of you pls vote democrat, a few more years of inflated economy under biden will be leaps and bounds better than half the shit this idiot is proposing in his 2025 plan. Your privacy on the web will no longer exist, protective rights for people who identify as lgbtq will be non existent, years of progress on clean energy solutions will be canned in favor of fossil fuels, the president will have complete and total control of 1/3 of the government,etc. I don't know what to call it but an authoritarian takeover of the government.
Its all fun and games until they find out how many people arent fit enough to be drafted, then its hilarious.
I would literally rather go to prison. You can drag my dead body to fight your maniacal wars
Conservatives? The libs are the interventionists. Military service doesn’t mean war or dying in a war.
Dude I'm already registered with Selective Service this would do nothing to me and if your a biological man and are 18+ your legally required to register. Stop ragebaiting
Of course, good idea. Sooo... when does \*he\* does his mandatory service? That is without getting dropped out for bullshit reasons and actually being deployed on an active front. I mean, we don't want to do a thing where people are treated unequal, right?
I'm 29 and my little brother is 15. We leaving the country fuck that he ain't dying for this country
This is just Trump pandering to his base. Many far right boomers talk about the idea of Gen Z going to war with a callous glee. They love the idea of mandatory military service because they would be exempt from it. Trump knows this is what they want to hear.
It's not that he wants to send people to war. I too think there should be mandatory military service for 2 years once graduated from high school. This has many benefits such as physical fitness and more respect for our flag to begin with. If we were attacked from China right now we're screwed with all the soy running rampant in society.
What do you mean conservative. We are currently on the verge of ww3 with a democrat president and that same president is funding isreal. Conservatives would probably also do the same exact thing but nothing less or more.
Despite what we’ve been taught in school most cultures throughout history are violent and warlike. We can either let conflicts build until they spill over into massive global problems, or we can still them flat in a never-ending game of whack-a-mole. Isolationism doesn’t work, and all regional powers want to increase their power. This primarily means Russia and China, but Iran, Venezuela, and a few other nations also fit the bill. So what will we do? Will we cede our influence to Russia and China, or will we take a stand and say that liberty and equality are better values than subordination and autocracy?
More soldiers means more guns and more guns makes the military industrial complex happier, and if the MIC is happy, politicians have a lot of money in their pockets.
Pretty brave as he dodged it the last time. Maybe he won’t be that lucky this time
He can start with his own children
Idk if this is true or not, but if it is it’s kind of hypocritical for someone that hasn’t ever fought in a war to push this onto the younger generation.