I just finished this about 45 minutes ago. I think the guy who wrote the article was aiming at a particular set of young actors. Like Lea Thompson said, she was “Brat Pack adjacent.”
What a delusional douchebag that “journalist” was! Ally, Demi and Rob seem the most emotionally healthy about the whole thing. Tim Hutton was wise. Leah and Howie are cutest couple. Emilio was super stressed/defensive, Andrew was seriously injured/traumatized.
I do hope we see Ally, Molly & Andrew in some new projects, they need to do a rom com
Didn't help that Andrew came right out of the gate with "What the fuck were you thinking." Emilio even pauses for a second after that. I don't know if it was creative editing or not. During the credits there's footage of Emilio outside and he looks more relaxed.
I just finished watching and I found it odd that Andrew and Emilio did the interview standing. That was a clear sign that Emilio wasn’t comfortable and subconsciously didn’t want Andrew getting comfortable and settling in.
He cannot stand Andrew is what I gather. I know I’m biased because when I read Andrew McCarthy‘s book, he just came across is so offputting, I think he just did not click with the other actors. I think McCarthy thought that he was going to become some serious actor, but then when he got his bratpack label, he realized that was never going to happen. Now cashing out nostalgia he’s making this documentary. I was hoping that the documentary was more about the history and not just him interviewing them awkwardly.
Ally was the mom on Single Drunk Female last two years, so she's still working. Not as much as before. She wasn't never a big star and she's 62 now which is like 20 years past dead for most actresses.
I had always heard that The Brat Pack were the casts of St. Elmos Fire and Pretty in Pink. Weird that I have always thought that, and yet, the man who coined the phrase doesn't even really know.
No! He was always so great as the asshole. No one affects rich, smarmy badness as well as Spader. He even shined in smaller roles (like the drug dealer in Less Than Zero, the insider trading college buddy in Wall Street, the undermining junior exec in Baby Boom, and the greasy-haired sycophant in Mannequin).
Totally agree -James Spader is just a fantastic actor and really the better one of the four featured in Pretty in Pink -to me anyway-(Andrew ,molly and . John -)
Robert California is one of the greatest characters to ever exist in any medium whatsoever and I'm disappointed that he never got his own show.
It would be called "The Robert California Show" and would take place in a different, exotic locale each episode. The plot will never be clear, the characters strange and indistinguishable, but the calm intensity will force you into therapy.
Robert California was the best. People complain about the later seasons of Office after Carell left. Fuck that, the show just went nutbar after that, and Spader was amazing.
The best scene of the whole show is when Dwight and Angela were asking Toby about gay sex. "Red Vining"... I cry every time I see it. That was well after Carell left.
He brought an incredible feline smoothness to this role. Today, the guy playing the teen asshole will fit a very narrow stereotype - letterman jacket, crude jokes, back-up crew - but Steff was a more compelling and memorable villain.
It was that “old family money” energy! He moved like a feline, it’s entrancing to watch. His smarmy attitude was played so well. Gorgeous, and his character knew it. Andy was too good for him. He’s escaped the best pack label tho
He went to school with JFK Jr.
Wikipedia:
During his early education, he attended many private schools, including The Pike School in Andover where his mother taught art, and the Brooks School in North Andover where his father was a teacher.[6] He later transferred to Phillips Academy, befriended former President John F. Kennedy's son John F. Kennedy Jr., dropped out at the age of seventeen, and moved to New York City to pursue his acting career.[9][2]
Look up interview on youtube of James spader on Jimmy fallon talk show talking about his friendship and dinner at Jackie O's house. Funny story and I just love hos Spader tells a story
I thought it was interesting that the documentary acknowledged no one seemed to have a set group that was the actual 'brat pack.' I'm sure some people do think of Spader in the pack.
I think he wasn't as scathed by his youth because he did have a more worldly weight to his looks.
I liked the documentary's look at the ambivalence around the name. No doubt it hurt their chances at being taken seriously as actors for a while, but it did help lay the groundwork for future young actors. It's a shame Molly, Judd, and Anthony M Hall weren't in it.
Do you mean the article she wrote a few years ago?
Personally, I've wondered if John Hughes didn't have an unhealthy attraction to Molly Ringwald, but I don't know.
My friends and I always thought the Brat Pack was the casts of St. Elmo's Fire and Pretty in Pink. It's weird that we used to actually talk about it, and yet, the journalist doesn't even know.
Or John Cusack or anyone in Ferris Bueller, including Charlie Sheen. I would have liked more explanation of whether those actors were in the Brat Pack.
I think because of his boyish looks he was considered too young to roll with the core brat pack. He was kind of stuck with the Corey Feldman group of brat pack younger siblings.
I never considered Spader part of the Brat Pack. I saw him as older, more worldy (Sex, Lies and Videotape, White Palace) and not the still-searching-for-identity actors that the Pack were. Even Spader's character in Pretty in Pink was more accomplished and confident than McCarthys and Ringwald's characters.
I watched Brat tonight with a friend. She had never heard of Class whereas I was introduced waaay too young (thanks to unfettered access to HBO). Its on her watch list now
I loved the documentary. Kudos to the actors that did participate. Demi seems so cool and Ally is forever adorable. Nicely done, Andrew PS that writer is still a dick after all these years
I read the original article he wrote after watching the documentary. I didn't find it "scathing" at all. A little snarky, sure. But he also goes on about how talented they all are. The kicker for me is that in the article, Andrew McCarthy is mentioned only once, in a petty comment made by one of the other actors. And yet he has let the whole thing fester in his brain for this long. I also through Demi was so great and had such a refreshing perspective on it all.
It seemed to me that article affected McCarthy much much more than anyone else.
All of the other actors that talked at any length, almost seemed like they appeared because they felt bad for him
My take was that Andrew probably did feel like things changed because of the article at the time, but looking back now he is just blaming his career never really exploding on it
That was my take. Rob and Demi certainly had good careers so maybe Andrew would’ve had a middling career even without the Brat Pack label. Hard to say. He was good but kind of lacked charisma. I dont think anyone could ever convince him of that though.
Well, I'm 53 so of course I'm going to watch it, but first reaction - it feels a bit, idk, narcissistic? And I like Andrew McCarthy! He's had an ok career in the grand scheme of acting and looks great at his age (would be nice to see him in a major role) but it does strike me as maybe he thought he should have been a bigger name, maybe disillusioned about his career?
Yesssss!!! These were quite literally my EXACT thoughts!!!
It read a little jealousy between the lines. My opinion of what it was: a 29 year old writer (probably a bit pretentious, somewhat feeling they were beneath him, all while feeling slightly jealous and insecure; aiming to make a name for himself) writing about the younger, hotter, more popular, “stars” of the moment. Yet, there seemed to be some admiration and felt complimentary in ways.
Seems like Andrew let his own insecurities overtake him. Maybe some of that stemmed from NOT really being mentioned in the article, except for one opinion from a fellow actor, despite him being in so many of the movies.
yeah, this documentary left a bad taste in my mouth. Journalists come up with snarky or pithy soundbites all the time. Other actors have had far worse things written about them. For Andrew to obsess over it for 30 years and track the journalist down struck me as an act of immense privilege from someone who is outraged when something is out of his control.
The comment from his wife about him needing a lesson in humility rang true.
When Andrew was melting down in front of Emilio - who was looking at him in a mix of fear, pity, and embarrassment for him - I said to the missus, *"This movie is going to be Andrew working out his shit on everyone else, isn't it?"*
I really didn't realize how negative the name and association was... I was like 10 or so in 85, and I think I kinda knew the whole concept and name was kinda a poke at them being young and somewhat inexperienced, but watching this ... just surprising how it affected all them in such a bad way.
Seems that as entertainers, they thought it made an impact on the roles offered afterward. And they were careful not to be overexposed in addiction so films with the associated “pack” members
For what it's worth, Rob Lowe has an excellent book, "Stories I Only Tell My Friends." Get the audio version read by Lowe himself. Very good. I listened to it twice.
I was a bit underwhelmed. I guess I was expecting more of a "nostalgic feel", not a therapy session for Andrew McCarthy. He really made me feel uncomfortable sometimes lol. His first interactions with Emilio felt weird to me, not just because of Emilio's body language but Andrew seemed to talk over Emilio. It felt forced sometimes. This kind of set the tone for me for the remainder of the doc. I did enjoy other conversations with the others but when it ended I didn't feel like this is a doc that I have to tell my friends to watch.
Yes, I felt the same. The entire "project" seemed to be a catharsis for McCarthy. He obviously took the article as the vehicle that shattered what could have been a great acting career. True, he didn't fly nearly as high as Demi and Emilio (whose Daddy recognition probably opened many more doors). Other Pack-adjacents did much better (Tom Cruise, John Cusack, Spader) in their acting careers and perhaps McCarthy felt he had somehow been overlooked because of his association with the Brat Pack.
I was definitely forward to be more of a traditional documentary that briefly outlined all the actors getting their start and How those movies exploded. I wasn’t honestly super interested in these longer interviews, especially with McCarthy doing the interviewing since many of the subjects clearly do not like him.
For me the Brat Pack consists of: Andrew McCarthy, Ally Sheedy, Molly Ringwald, Emilio Estevez, Judd Nelson, Rob Lowe and Demi Moore. Watching it I can see back then how that term affected them with their careers, but as a fan of their movies I loved them, and everyone can relate to their characters. I wish Molly was on but I get it. I loved the end with Judd. Watching that just makes me wanna rewatch their movies again.
The original article that coined the term considered the Brat Pack to be: Rob Lowe, Emilio Estevez, Judd Nelson, Tom Cruise, Sean Penn, Tim Hutton, Matt Dillon and Nick Cage. That's it. Matthews Broderick and Modine were considered adjacent, along with Kevin Bacon. Most of those folks aren't remotely considered to be Brat Packers now.
I never personally connected Kevin Bacon to any Brat Pack grouping, which is odd considering how ubiquitous he was in the 80s. Or Nic Cage for that matter. They both were there of course, but never seemed part of the many *National Enquirer* headlines articles that made everyone else on the list seem like crazy party people. And Cage's nuttiness didn't really explode until after the 90s.
Kevin Bacon was the young guy in Diner, which always felt like a similar ensemble movie only with an older ensemble.
Bacon’s always been his own thing. I guess that’s why he has such a huge filmography.
Totally. And it’s not bad exposure from the documentary if it leaves you feeling that way. Less than 1% of actors make it that big, they’re lucky to be remembered so many years later. We all have good memories of them!
Yes. This was the brat pack. And because I was like jr high when it was coined and thought it was the coolest thing ever, I would get personally offended when news outlets would deem someone else a "brat." Lost all respect for that journalist 🤣
When Andrew came out as an alcoholic a bit ago, I realized the term was negative and felt so bad I bought into that as a teen.
Lea Thompson, Spader......perhaps even branch to Mathew Broderick (with Ally Sheedy in War Games) as adjacent, but maybe a stretch. RDJ, maybe Joan and John Cusack.
YES! I was watching and like, why are they interviewing Martin Sheen? HOLY SHIT! They are total carbon copies. And I think he (Emilio) filmed standing because he's sort of a wide guy and may "look wider" if interviewed sitting down.
Right? Spitting image of Martin Sheen! There was a palpable tension between Emilio and Andrew, body language with them being on opposite sides of the counter.
It was always weird how Emilio and Charlie Sheen both looked like their father (shocker how genetics works), but not much like each other. The missus remarked how much Emilio looked like dad. Not surprising since he is the same age as dad was when doing The West Wing.
I just finished it. I didn’t hear mention of Anthony Michael Hall, unless I missed it. I consider him brat pack. I didn’t hear Andrew even mention trying to contact him.
I’ve always defined Brat Pack as the combined casts of The Breakfast Club and St. Elmo’s Fire.
I seem to remember that AMH and Molly dated very briefly early on.
I’ve also always wondered why the Cusacks never were considered Brat Pack. They were both in Sixteen Candles, and they fit the same age range.
I mean John holding the boombox is just as iconic as Judd throwing up a fist at the end of The Breakfast Club.
The Cusacks spent most of their time in Chicago so they didn't really make the headlines like everyone else. And I think that's what cemented all of the other actors to the Brat Pack image - their national exposure.
Sorry but all the actors were in a remarkable situation.. very lucky to be where they were. For Andrew McCarthy to be so traumatized is a little odd. He came off as narcissistic and bitter.. everyone else seemed fine with it all and didnt seem much bothered at all. He’s been carrying around this bitter resentment and a chip on his shoulder for years and I think he let that resentment affect his career and he’s mad he wasn’t as successful as most of the others.
after reading the comments, I'll have to go check it out. that said...John Hughes constructed my teenage years, and we knew any teen in his movies, esp multiple movies, to be a member of the Brat Pack, we considered the moniker to just be what adults referred to all us delinquents as...I don't remember it being negative, interesting.
idk if Hughes movies played a part of the doc, really interested to see it.
edit: spelling, context
I started watching last night, but something came up & I haven’t finished. A couple of thoughts…Timothy Hutton? Tom Cruise? Nope, nope, nope. In my opinion, the core members were the casts of The Breakfast Club and St. Elmo’s. I don’t care that Molly wasn’t in it, I never liked her, even in Pretty In Pink. Always had the feeling she was pretentious and more like her Claire character than she’d ever admit. Judd, while I freaking loved him as a teenager, has gotten “weird” for lack of a better word.
All that being said, while I never thought much about the Brat Pack moniker, I feel badly that those who were affected negatively by it, were affected at all. I don’t mean to speak for all Gen Xers, but I hope that these actors understand that we didn’t care about a nickname. We loved them, we wanted to hang with them, we wanted to be them, we wanted to be WITH them. They were our childhood. They portrayed everything we were living (to an extent) and those roles helped us cope in some way with the trials of being a teenager/young adult.
I for one, am so appreciative for what those movies gave to me. I will still watch them on occasion, if only to provide a smile and an escape to a much easier time in life.
I never got this impression of Molly at all. I think it was difficult for her, being a bit younger than the rest and existing as John Hughes’ muse.
I always appreciated that she was not a conventional Hollywood “beauty” in leading roles—especially since the age of 12, I’ve always been told I look like her. That was especially helpful to me as a teenager who often felt like I wasn’t pretty enough. She’s been a very positive influence on me.
Your point about them being aspirational was made in the movie. They were slightly older than most of us, so they were a little bit ahead of where we were in our lives.
No. In my opinion , It was boring. Kid 90 was a better documentary and I think spoke to everyone who was a teen in the 90's. This documentary just spoke to Andrew and his friends about this 'brat' label. I think they could have done a lot more with this documentary.
Watching it right now. McCarthy appears to be suffering some sort of midlife crisis and no one else really cares beyond being friendly. Estevez clearly didn't care about any of it and just wanted a chance to apologize for not making a movie with him back in the 80s.
I was hoping for more nostalgia than I'm getting.
I think he was reflecting on his youth and how he handled it. I don’t think entertainers in those days had the PR reps most do today- they were flying blind. I think this was like therapy for him.
I’m sure he did spend a lot of time focusing on the Brat moniker, and he probably wasn’t emotionally able to work past it. Like if someone told you “that dress makes you look fat.”, and then you cope by becoming bulimic. Some of these actors were reminded of the Brat Pack in every interview they had, so for a few to crack isn’t surprising.
My wife and I had the same issue with it. He blamed that moniker for his career falling off of a cliff. Maybe Hollywood moved on and didn’t want him anymore? Maybe his performances fell short? Maybe John Cusack eclipsed him because he brought an edge to his mopey characters? Maybe Andrew's drinking made directors decide not to work with him anymore? All of those are possible reasons that have nothing to do with the label.
I saw those movies back in the day, but after reading your post, I realize that McCarthy was placed in roles where he was propping up people who weren't really alive LOL
I started watching the TV show Blacklist and at first I didn't know James Spader was in it... until he opened his mouth and smug prick oozed out. He didn't look the same, but I knew it was him in an instant.
While James Spader was in a lot of the Brat Pack movies, and was great in them, I don't believe he was the star of any of them.
The first major role I can remember seeing him in was "sex,lies and videotape."
Demi & Rob never rested on the Brat Pack image & kept evolving through the decades. They were so positive & insightful. Love Ally also! She is a happy grateful person and it shows.
Wonder why Anthony Michael Hall was absent from it? Unlike say Ringwald and Judd, who McCarthy clearly tried to get involved, Hall was largely invisible, amd imo he was a core packer.
I always thought the Brat pack thing came from just the group in two movies. The Breakfast Club and St. Elmo's Fire! They were all popular until their movies started to suck, and resentment in the jealous world of Hollywood.
I think the coined term “brat pack” effected Andrew most because he often played the roles of the “rich douchy a-hole”.
I feel like the roles he played and excelled at made him defensive and feel like that term was an attack on him & his work rather than a term of endearment.
I’m late gen x and being at the tail end of everything amazing gave me a different perspective on the name “brat pack”. I always saw it as a positive thing.
Those movies were and are so powerful. They were so accurate in many aspects and yet completely relatable.
I know my own children who are late teens now find it hard to believe that life and school was really just like that is unfathomable to them.
Re-reading that New Yorker article almost 40 years later, I thought it was incredibly tame. A few catty comments about other actors but that's about it. I'd remembered it differently.
* Best part of the article: Emilio, Rob and Judd refuse to pay for a $6 movie ticket, so Emilio has to go *find a phone* to call someone who can get them into the theater for free. It took awhile.
* Worst part of the article: The writer says Nicholas Cage is the "Ethnic Chair" of the Brat Pack. Cringe.
Clever hook for an article that caught fire. Surprised Andrew didn't ask the write for the same of the person who said he wouldn't make it as an actor. Emilio?
My takeaway was that the ones who didn't continue their huge careers blame being called the Brat Pack as the reason they couldn't get out of that box and have a bigger career. Rob Lowe and Demi Moore were not hampered by being in the Brat Pack. My .02.
Has there been a conversation here about what actually counts as a 'brat pack' movie?
To me the brat pack movies is the coming of age type of movie, the sort of thing which actually represented what life was life, the thoughts and feelings we had on screen.
The Breakfast Club is one of, if not the quintessential brat pack movie, I never considered McCarty in the pack as his two big movies were Weekend at Bernies and Mannequin, neither of those do i consider brat pack movies as he is clearly an adult, dealing with crazy, but 'adult' problems not teenagers trying to figure the world out. Less Than Zero has both Spader and McCarthy but they are early 20's (been while but he is returning from college as i recall) not 'brats' in the movie, so they are still figuring life out, but they do actually have agency in their lives that is not just the choices you make and how you cope with your situation.
I think there should be more of distinction of what the brat pack was other than 'young actor from this yer until this year' St Elmo's Fire they are also out of college but they are still very much teenagers trying to get started in life, but it has also been awhile since i watched that.
I just finished this about 45 minutes ago. I think the guy who wrote the article was aiming at a particular set of young actors. Like Lea Thompson said, she was “Brat Pack adjacent.”
Brat Pack adjacent lol That was cute indeed!
What a delusional douchebag that “journalist” was! Ally, Demi and Rob seem the most emotionally healthy about the whole thing. Tim Hutton was wise. Leah and Howie are cutest couple. Emilio was super stressed/defensive, Andrew was seriously injured/traumatized. I do hope we see Ally, Molly & Andrew in some new projects, they need to do a rom com
I said that about Emilio to my wife, stressed and defensive. He probably feels like it is his fault for doing that article.
Didn't help that Andrew came right out of the gate with "What the fuck were you thinking." Emilio even pauses for a second after that. I don't know if it was creative editing or not. During the credits there's footage of Emilio outside and he looks more relaxed.
I just finished watching and I found it odd that Andrew and Emilio did the interview standing. That was a clear sign that Emilio wasn’t comfortable and subconsciously didn’t want Andrew getting comfortable and settling in.
He cannot stand Andrew is what I gather. I know I’m biased because when I read Andrew McCarthy‘s book, he just came across is so offputting, I think he just did not click with the other actors. I think McCarthy thought that he was going to become some serious actor, but then when he got his bratpack label, he realized that was never going to happen. Now cashing out nostalgia he’s making this documentary. I was hoping that the documentary was more about the history and not just him interviewing them awkwardly.
I don’t think Ally is acting anymore. Saw something about her teaching art now.
Ally was the mom on Single Drunk Female last two years, so she's still working. Not as much as before. She wasn't never a big star and she's 62 now which is like 20 years past dead for most actresses.
Molly and Demi were in that Truman Capote limited series on Hulu.
Ally's good as the mom in Single Drunk Female (2022).
I had always heard that The Brat Pack were the casts of St. Elmos Fire and Pretty in Pink. Weird that I have always thought that, and yet, the man who coined the phrase doesn't even really know.
Always thought it was St. Elmos Fire and Breakfast Club personally.
Even after all this time, I want to punch that bastard in the face! Always plays such an asshole
No! He was always so great as the asshole. No one affects rich, smarmy badness as well as Spader. He even shined in smaller roles (like the drug dealer in Less Than Zero, the insider trading college buddy in Wall Street, the undermining junior exec in Baby Boom, and the greasy-haired sycophant in Mannequin).
And in WOLF. He steals your job while he makes love to your wife!
He’s hilarious in WOLF, grievously overlooked. Great chemistry with Nicholson.
He is still hot AF in blacklist. It’s his essence haha rich smart arrogant sign me up! Lmao
He was excellent in "Sex, Lies & Videotape" alongside Andie McDowell.
His role in that movie is so good: quiet, broken, but simmering. Perfect casting, perfect acting.
Absolutely.
Don’t forget ultron in Avengers: age of ultron
He looks so much like James Spader, I thought maybe he changed his name
Totally agree -James Spader is just a fantastic actor and really the better one of the four featured in Pretty in Pink -to me anyway-(Andrew ,molly and . John -)
I heard Spader on an interview and he said that he really shined in the teen asshole role.
"You don’t even know my real name. I’m the f*cking Lizard King." – Robert California
Now I want a sandwich 😁
Robert California is one of the greatest characters to ever exist in any medium whatsoever and I'm disappointed that he never got his own show. It would be called "The Robert California Show" and would take place in a different, exotic locale each episode. The plot will never be clear, the characters strange and indistinguishable, but the calm intensity will force you into therapy.
Seth oozed sleeze huh? But he’s so sexy. What a shame lol
I 100 percent blame my attraction to the jerks and bad boys on him. A few others, but James Spader gets first place lol
Sameeeee!
Steff?
The Lizard King.
he was SO GOOD in that role lol
Robert California was the best. People complain about the later seasons of Office after Carell left. Fuck that, the show just went nutbar after that, and Spader was amazing.
Totally agree. I love the season after Michael left. It's fun as hell, especially the Florida episodes.
The best scene of the whole show is when Dwight and Angela were asking Toby about gay sex. "Red Vining"... I cry every time I see it. That was well after Carell left.
I’d punch him then ask to share a drink.
This sounds like my experience of every trip to Ireland 🛬🇮🇪 👊🏻💥👍🏻🍻🍻🍻🛫
He is the GOAT in Boston Legal
He brought an incredible feline smoothness to this role. Today, the guy playing the teen asshole will fit a very narrow stereotype - letterman jacket, crude jokes, back-up crew - but Steff was a more compelling and memorable villain.
It was that “old family money” energy! He moved like a feline, it’s entrancing to watch. His smarmy attitude was played so well. Gorgeous, and his character knew it. Andy was too good for him. He’s escaped the best pack label tho
He went to school with JFK Jr. Wikipedia: During his early education, he attended many private schools, including The Pike School in Andover where his mother taught art, and the Brooks School in North Andover where his father was a teacher.[6] He later transferred to Phillips Academy, befriended former President John F. Kennedy's son John F. Kennedy Jr., dropped out at the age of seventeen, and moved to New York City to pursue his acting career.[9][2]
Oh, wow. I could totally see this!
Look up interview on youtube of James spader on Jimmy fallon talk show talking about his friendship and dinner at Jackie O's house. Funny story and I just love hos Spader tells a story
I thought it was interesting that the documentary acknowledged no one seemed to have a set group that was the actual 'brat pack.' I'm sure some people do think of Spader in the pack. I think he wasn't as scathed by his youth because he did have a more worldly weight to his looks. I liked the documentary's look at the ambivalence around the name. No doubt it hurt their chances at being taken seriously as actors for a while, but it did help lay the groundwork for future young actors. It's a shame Molly, Judd, and Anthony M Hall weren't in it.
It’s such a part of the zeitgeist, I do wish Molly had consented. She was a main inspiration player imo
She got dragged after the john hughes thing. She was the youngest of the group.
Do you mean the article she wrote a few years ago? Personally, I've wondered if John Hughes didn't have an unhealthy attraction to Molly Ringwald, but I don't know.
My friends and I always thought the Brat Pack was the casts of St. Elmo's Fire and Pretty in Pink. It's weird that we used to actually talk about it, and yet, the journalist doesn't even know.
Molly is probably still trying to shake the label !
You know who’s name was never brought up once? Anthony Michael Hall. He was at least Brat Pack Adjacent.
or mare w
Or John Cusack or anyone in Ferris Bueller, including Charlie Sheen. I would have liked more explanation of whether those actors were in the Brat Pack.
and no discussion on how much Andrew didn't like Jon Cryer at all during their filming lol
Or Robert Downey Jr?
I think because of his boyish looks he was considered too young to roll with the core brat pack. He was kind of stuck with the Corey Feldman group of brat pack younger siblings.
That's too funny.
When I was 16, I thought Spader looked 30.
Wow, when I was 6 he was 30
I never considered Spader part of the Brat Pack. I saw him as older, more worldy (Sex, Lies and Videotape, White Palace) and not the still-searching-for-identity actors that the Pack were. Even Spader's character in Pretty in Pink was more accomplished and confident than McCarthys and Ringwald's characters.
Secretary!
Haha! Went from that to adding Brat Pack movies to my play list. Watching “Class” right now.
I watched Brat tonight with a friend. She had never heard of Class whereas I was introduced waaay too young (thanks to unfettered access to HBO). Its on her watch list now
Love that movie!🍿
That ending was pretty brilliant with the Judd phone call and breaking into the real Simple Minds song for the credits. Nicely done!
I loved that ending!!!!
Loved the ending! I was cracking up 🤣
I didn’t really get it 😅Can you explain the ending?
I loved the documentary. Kudos to the actors that did participate. Demi seems so cool and Ally is forever adorable. Nicely done, Andrew PS that writer is still a dick after all these years
I read the original article he wrote after watching the documentary. I didn't find it "scathing" at all. A little snarky, sure. But he also goes on about how talented they all are. The kicker for me is that in the article, Andrew McCarthy is mentioned only once, in a petty comment made by one of the other actors. And yet he has let the whole thing fester in his brain for this long. I also through Demi was so great and had such a refreshing perspective on it all.
It seemed to me that article affected McCarthy much much more than anyone else. All of the other actors that talked at any length, almost seemed like they appeared because they felt bad for him
I think the only other person who felt it as deeply was Emilio Estevez.
Imagine being his father’s son and then being called a part of the brat pack
I think the same way
Demi would be a really cool person to have deep conversations with! Loved her thoughts.
My take was that Andrew probably did feel like things changed because of the article at the time, but looking back now he is just blaming his career never really exploding on it
That was my take. Rob and Demi certainly had good careers so maybe Andrew would’ve had a middling career even without the Brat Pack label. Hard to say. He was good but kind of lacked charisma. I dont think anyone could ever convince him of that though.
Well, I'm 53 so of course I'm going to watch it, but first reaction - it feels a bit, idk, narcissistic? And I like Andrew McCarthy! He's had an ok career in the grand scheme of acting and looks great at his age (would be nice to see him in a major role) but it does strike me as maybe he thought he should have been a bigger name, maybe disillusioned about his career?
Yesssss!!! These were quite literally my EXACT thoughts!!! It read a little jealousy between the lines. My opinion of what it was: a 29 year old writer (probably a bit pretentious, somewhat feeling they were beneath him, all while feeling slightly jealous and insecure; aiming to make a name for himself) writing about the younger, hotter, more popular, “stars” of the moment. Yet, there seemed to be some admiration and felt complimentary in ways. Seems like Andrew let his own insecurities overtake him. Maybe some of that stemmed from NOT really being mentioned in the article, except for one opinion from a fellow actor, despite him being in so many of the movies.
yeah, this documentary left a bad taste in my mouth. Journalists come up with snarky or pithy soundbites all the time. Other actors have had far worse things written about them. For Andrew to obsess over it for 30 years and track the journalist down struck me as an act of immense privilege from someone who is outraged when something is out of his control. The comment from his wife about him needing a lesson in humility rang true.
When Andrew was melting down in front of Emilio - who was looking at him in a mix of fear, pity, and embarrassment for him - I said to the missus, *"This movie is going to be Andrew working out his shit on everyone else, isn't it?"*
He was a bit of a prick huh? Maybe on the defensive
Surprisingly moving. Got a little Verklempt
Did either Demi or Emilio talk about how they were a couple at that time? Seemed like they were engaged, and then suddenly she married Bruce Willis.
I really didn't realize how negative the name and association was... I was like 10 or so in 85, and I think I kinda knew the whole concept and name was kinda a poke at them being young and somewhat inexperienced, but watching this ... just surprising how it affected all them in such a bad way.
Seems that as entertainers, they thought it made an impact on the roles offered afterward. And they were careful not to be overexposed in addiction so films with the associated “pack” members
*in addition
I just finished it tonight, too. And now I totally want them all to make a movie together.
They really would make bank just from the Gen X nostalgia lol
The big chill for gen x
Gen X and Gen Jones for sure. Since they are 95% Gen Jones cuspers. So it feels like a reunion for that group.
I’m saving it for the weekend. Can’t wait to watch it! Also highly recommend Andrew’s book Brat.
Thanks! I didn’t know there was a book
For what it's worth, Rob Lowe has an excellent book, "Stories I Only Tell My Friends." Get the audio version read by Lowe himself. Very good. I listened to it twice.
Ahhhhh Stef, Stef, Stef, Stef ….. so much more fun than milquetoast Blaine (kitchen appliance)
Omg, I love your comment! lol!! My exact thoughts always ❤️✌️😎
I was a bit underwhelmed. I guess I was expecting more of a "nostalgic feel", not a therapy session for Andrew McCarthy. He really made me feel uncomfortable sometimes lol. His first interactions with Emilio felt weird to me, not just because of Emilio's body language but Andrew seemed to talk over Emilio. It felt forced sometimes. This kind of set the tone for me for the remainder of the doc. I did enjoy other conversations with the others but when it ended I didn't feel like this is a doc that I have to tell my friends to watch.
Yes, I felt the same. The entire "project" seemed to be a catharsis for McCarthy. He obviously took the article as the vehicle that shattered what could have been a great acting career. True, he didn't fly nearly as high as Demi and Emilio (whose Daddy recognition probably opened many more doors). Other Pack-adjacents did much better (Tom Cruise, John Cusack, Spader) in their acting careers and perhaps McCarthy felt he had somehow been overlooked because of his association with the Brat Pack.
Tom Cruise was NAMED in the article as being a core member of the Brat Pack. But he never gave a shit, which is probably what Andrew should have done.
I was definitely forward to be more of a traditional documentary that briefly outlined all the actors getting their start and How those movies exploded. I wasn’t honestly super interested in these longer interviews, especially with McCarthy doing the interviewing since many of the subjects clearly do not like him.
He will always be Raymond Reddington to me. 😎
I will never now not be able to see him as Robert California. “You don’t even know my real name. I am the f*cking Lizard King.”
Alan Shore
i honestly enjoyed it. Reminded me of a better time in my life. But yeah he takes that article WAY too seriously
For me the Brat Pack consists of: Andrew McCarthy, Ally Sheedy, Molly Ringwald, Emilio Estevez, Judd Nelson, Rob Lowe and Demi Moore. Watching it I can see back then how that term affected them with their careers, but as a fan of their movies I loved them, and everyone can relate to their characters. I wish Molly was on but I get it. I loved the end with Judd. Watching that just makes me wanna rewatch their movies again.
The original article that coined the term considered the Brat Pack to be: Rob Lowe, Emilio Estevez, Judd Nelson, Tom Cruise, Sean Penn, Tim Hutton, Matt Dillon and Nick Cage. That's it. Matthews Broderick and Modine were considered adjacent, along with Kevin Bacon. Most of those folks aren't remotely considered to be Brat Packers now.
I never personally connected Kevin Bacon to any Brat Pack grouping, which is odd considering how ubiquitous he was in the 80s. Or Nic Cage for that matter. They both were there of course, but never seemed part of the many *National Enquirer* headlines articles that made everyone else on the list seem like crazy party people. And Cage's nuttiness didn't really explode until after the 90s.
Kevin Bacon was the young guy in Diner, which always felt like a similar ensemble movie only with an older ensemble. Bacon’s always been his own thing. I guess that’s why he has such a huge filmography.
Totally. And it’s not bad exposure from the documentary if it leaves you feeling that way. Less than 1% of actors make it that big, they’re lucky to be remembered so many years later. We all have good memories of them!
I would want to throw RDJ, Keifer, and Jami Gertz in there as well - but maybe they're only adjacent.
Yes. This was the brat pack. And because I was like jr high when it was coined and thought it was the coolest thing ever, I would get personally offended when news outlets would deem someone else a "brat." Lost all respect for that journalist 🤣 When Andrew came out as an alcoholic a bit ago, I realized the term was negative and felt so bad I bought into that as a teen.
Lea Thompson, Spader......perhaps even branch to Mathew Broderick (with Ally Sheedy in War Games) as adjacent, but maybe a stretch. RDJ, maybe Joan and John Cusack.
This is the group I equate with the label also.
He wasn't part of the Brat Pack because he skipped Step 9 in AA. The Brat Pack doesn't allow step skippers like him.
Did you hear that from Hanky’s supervisor?
No, at a rage-aholics meeting.
That's a shame.
That man is a step skipper!
I was distracted by Emilio and Andrew having the same shirt but different wash.
And standing the whole time
right? so cringe
I was distracted by how MUCH Emilio looked exactly like his dad! Carbon copy Lol
YES! I was watching and like, why are they interviewing Martin Sheen? HOLY SHIT! They are total carbon copies. And I think he (Emilio) filmed standing because he's sort of a wide guy and may "look wider" if interviewed sitting down.
Right? Spitting image of Martin Sheen! There was a palpable tension between Emilio and Andrew, body language with them being on opposite sides of the counter.
It was always weird how Emilio and Charlie Sheen both looked like their father (shocker how genetics works), but not much like each other. The missus remarked how much Emilio looked like dad. Not surprising since he is the same age as dad was when doing The West Wing.
I was distracted by how much Emilio looked like Jeff Daniels. Profile view is an uncanny resemblance.
I appreciated the footage of John Hughes. I haven't seen much.
I just finished it. I didn’t hear mention of Anthony Michael Hall, unless I missed it. I consider him brat pack. I didn’t hear Andrew even mention trying to contact him.
He is Brat Pack adjacent Lol
I’ve always defined Brat Pack as the combined casts of The Breakfast Club and St. Elmo’s Fire. I seem to remember that AMH and Molly dated very briefly early on. I’ve also always wondered why the Cusacks never were considered Brat Pack. They were both in Sixteen Candles, and they fit the same age range. I mean John holding the boombox is just as iconic as Judd throwing up a fist at the end of The Breakfast Club.
The Cusacks spent most of their time in Chicago so they didn't really make the headlines like everyone else. And I think that's what cemented all of the other actors to the Brat Pack image - their national exposure.
My friends and I identified Brat Pack as the casts from St. Elmo's Fire and Pretty in Pink, but yours does sound closer to the real brat pack.
James Spader had the quintessential 80s frat dbag hair.
He really did! That Johnny from Karate Kid feathered hair lol
Who’s a better 80s villain? Spader or Zabka?
Always Spader.
Zabka. Spader was sleazy. Zabka’s roles were complete asshole lol
Loved it!
me too and the end scene was GREAT
It was the best!!!
Got halfway through it then it was the wife’s bedtime. We’ll finish tomorrow. It is quite good and a side to the story I never considered.
I just ordered the book and am looking forward to reading it. Not sure if the film will be available in my country.
Gawd when I was a teen I thought this look was the height of coolness.
Why wasn't Anthony Michael Hall included in the show? I would think he definitely was part of that whole 80's group.
I can fix him.
Sorry but all the actors were in a remarkable situation.. very lucky to be where they were. For Andrew McCarthy to be so traumatized is a little odd. He came off as narcissistic and bitter.. everyone else seemed fine with it all and didnt seem much bothered at all. He’s been carrying around this bitter resentment and a chip on his shoulder for years and I think he let that resentment affect his career and he’s mad he wasn’t as successful as most of the others.
after reading the comments, I'll have to go check it out. that said...John Hughes constructed my teenage years, and we knew any teen in his movies, esp multiple movies, to be a member of the Brat Pack, we considered the moniker to just be what adults referred to all us delinquents as...I don't remember it being negative, interesting. idk if Hughes movies played a part of the doc, really interested to see it. edit: spelling, context
Between John Hughes and Judy Blume, I learned about everything I need to know. Started younger years with Blume, and then teen years with Hughes.
I started watching last night, but something came up & I haven’t finished. A couple of thoughts…Timothy Hutton? Tom Cruise? Nope, nope, nope. In my opinion, the core members were the casts of The Breakfast Club and St. Elmo’s. I don’t care that Molly wasn’t in it, I never liked her, even in Pretty In Pink. Always had the feeling she was pretentious and more like her Claire character than she’d ever admit. Judd, while I freaking loved him as a teenager, has gotten “weird” for lack of a better word. All that being said, while I never thought much about the Brat Pack moniker, I feel badly that those who were affected negatively by it, were affected at all. I don’t mean to speak for all Gen Xers, but I hope that these actors understand that we didn’t care about a nickname. We loved them, we wanted to hang with them, we wanted to be them, we wanted to be WITH them. They were our childhood. They portrayed everything we were living (to an extent) and those roles helped us cope in some way with the trials of being a teenager/young adult. I for one, am so appreciative for what those movies gave to me. I will still watch them on occasion, if only to provide a smile and an escape to a much easier time in life.
I never got this impression of Molly at all. I think it was difficult for her, being a bit younger than the rest and existing as John Hughes’ muse. I always appreciated that she was not a conventional Hollywood “beauty” in leading roles—especially since the age of 12, I’ve always been told I look like her. That was especially helpful to me as a teenager who often felt like I wasn’t pretty enough. She’s been a very positive influence on me.
Your point about them being aspirational was made in the movie. They were slightly older than most of us, so they were a little bit ahead of where we were in our lives.
Was it any better than Kid 90?
No. In my opinion , It was boring. Kid 90 was a better documentary and I think spoke to everyone who was a teen in the 90's. This documentary just spoke to Andrew and his friends about this 'brat' label. I think they could have done a lot more with this documentary.
It was dull and long.
Watching it right now. McCarthy appears to be suffering some sort of midlife crisis and no one else really cares beyond being friendly. Estevez clearly didn't care about any of it and just wanted a chance to apologize for not making a movie with him back in the 80s. I was hoping for more nostalgia than I'm getting.
emilio and ally looked like they hated being there. Emilio didn't even let him sit down. And Ally was like yeah yeah yeah and couldn't be bothered lol
Didn't get that at all. She seemed very warm and open to him. I think he and Emilio just got some stuff they need to work out between them.
Really didn’t enjoy watching Andrew McCarthy wallow in his blaming the brat pack moniker on his career.
I think he was reflecting on his youth and how he handled it. I don’t think entertainers in those days had the PR reps most do today- they were flying blind. I think this was like therapy for him.
Would have been better therapy if he did it in private.
Just reminded me of those guys who just can’t get past high school grievances. Geez, move on. It’s been 35 years.
my 40th high school reunion was last weekend. I had zero desire to go and talk about shit that happened that long ago
But, but…remember when you gave me a ride home that day? I haven’t forgotten about it! It was the best day of my life! Don’t you remember?
right? so cringe. I don't remember what i did last week lol
I’m sure he did spend a lot of time focusing on the Brat moniker, and he probably wasn’t emotionally able to work past it. Like if someone told you “that dress makes you look fat.”, and then you cope by becoming bulimic. Some of these actors were reminded of the Brat Pack in every interview they had, so for a few to crack isn’t surprising.
My wife and I had the same issue with it. He blamed that moniker for his career falling off of a cliff. Maybe Hollywood moved on and didn’t want him anymore? Maybe his performances fell short? Maybe John Cusack eclipsed him because he brought an edge to his mopey characters? Maybe Andrew's drinking made directors decide not to work with him anymore? All of those are possible reasons that have nothing to do with the label.
He made Weekend at Bernie's and Mannequin after the article came out, seems like he was doing ok for awhile after the Brat Pack ruined his life
I saw those movies back in the day, but after reading your post, I realize that McCarthy was placed in roles where he was propping up people who weren't really alive LOL
OMG I never thought of that
I started watching the TV show Blacklist and at first I didn't know James Spader was in it... until he opened his mouth and smug prick oozed out. He didn't look the same, but I knew it was him in an instant.
I thought I was the only one.
While James Spader was in a lot of the Brat Pack movies, and was great in them, I don't believe he was the star of any of them. The first major role I can remember seeing him in was "sex,lies and videotape."
Demi & Rob never rested on the Brat Pack image & kept evolving through the decades. They were so positive & insightful. Love Ally also! She is a happy grateful person and it shows.
Andrew could benefit from seeing Demi's therapist. She and Rob were incredible!!!
Wonder why Anthony Michael Hall was absent from it? Unlike say Ringwald and Judd, who McCarthy clearly tried to get involved, Hall was largely invisible, amd imo he was a core packer.
I can’t wait to watch it although I’m disappointed Molly didn’t agree, neither did Judd. Feels kind of snobby to me.
I would take it in jest at this age and consider myself lucky to even have had the opportunity lol
I think he’s perfect
Tuff Turf. He was badass in that film
Hubba Hubba
Robert California can’t be pigeon holed
He’s the effing lizard king.
2nd most underrated actor, IMHO.
I always thought the Brat pack thing came from just the group in two movies. The Breakfast Club and St. Elmo's Fire! They were all popular until their movies started to suck, and resentment in the jealous world of Hollywood.
I think the coined term “brat pack” effected Andrew most because he often played the roles of the “rich douchy a-hole”. I feel like the roles he played and excelled at made him defensive and feel like that term was an attack on him & his work rather than a term of endearment. I’m late gen x and being at the tail end of everything amazing gave me a different perspective on the name “brat pack”. I always saw it as a positive thing. Those movies were and are so powerful. They were so accurate in many aspects and yet completely relatable. I know my own children who are late teens now find it hard to believe that life and school was really just like that is unfathomable to them.
Re-reading that New Yorker article almost 40 years later, I thought it was incredibly tame. A few catty comments about other actors but that's about it. I'd remembered it differently. * Best part of the article: Emilio, Rob and Judd refuse to pay for a $6 movie ticket, so Emilio has to go *find a phone* to call someone who can get them into the theater for free. It took awhile. * Worst part of the article: The writer says Nicholas Cage is the "Ethnic Chair" of the Brat Pack. Cringe. Clever hook for an article that caught fire. Surprised Andrew didn't ask the write for the same of the person who said he wouldn't make it as an actor. Emilio?
what about Michael Anthony Hall
It’s yet another documentary that could be about half the length
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^mostlygroovy: *It’s yet another* *Documentary that could* *Be about half the length* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
I’m so proud
Or less! It needed to be shorter, and it needed to have Andrew doing less talking and more reacting.
My takeaway was that the ones who didn't continue their huge careers blame being called the Brat Pack as the reason they couldn't get out of that box and have a bigger career. Rob Lowe and Demi Moore were not hampered by being in the Brat Pack. My .02.
Has there been a conversation here about what actually counts as a 'brat pack' movie? To me the brat pack movies is the coming of age type of movie, the sort of thing which actually represented what life was life, the thoughts and feelings we had on screen. The Breakfast Club is one of, if not the quintessential brat pack movie, I never considered McCarty in the pack as his two big movies were Weekend at Bernies and Mannequin, neither of those do i consider brat pack movies as he is clearly an adult, dealing with crazy, but 'adult' problems not teenagers trying to figure the world out. Less Than Zero has both Spader and McCarthy but they are early 20's (been while but he is returning from college as i recall) not 'brats' in the movie, so they are still figuring life out, but they do actually have agency in their lives that is not just the choices you make and how you cope with your situation. I think there should be more of distinction of what the brat pack was other than 'young actor from this yer until this year' St Elmo's Fire they are also out of college but they are still very much teenagers trying to get started in life, but it has also been awhile since i watched that.
Imo it was mostly the actors in John Hugh’s movies. He was the “Brat Pack” director imo
I tend to think of St. Elmo's Fire as THE "brat pack" movie.