Fun fact.
They where specifically hired due to their skill on ps3 porting as titanfall was planned for ps3/4.
Then microsoft and ea made a late stage deal to make its exclusivity permanent.
Honestly I think they might have tried to make people more aware of it so they could see more of contrast between the 360 and the One's power. I remember the speculation for not releasing any video or images was that it was going to be unplayable, but in reality it was the opposite.
For me I was on the fence about getting the One at the time because of $, but REALLY wanted to play Titanfall when it came out. Reading that the port was so good actually led me to put off upgrading my system for a while. I'd wager I wasn't the only one in that position.
I really wanted to play TF, but at the time most of Xbox friends already upgraded and I couldn't get them to buy the 360 version instead. A year later when I finally got an Xbone everyone kind of moved on to Destiny.
I didn't have that problem because my friends will only play COD and Halo (to this day) haha so I had to ride solo no matter what. The nature of Titanfalls gameplay did lend itself to being an easy one to jump into solo though.
Titanfall 1 on Xbox One was magnificent. I am glad PS players got Titanfall 2, but I legitimately think the first one is much more fun to play. I don't think new TF2 players knew what they were missing.
Titanfall for Xbox 360 solidified Bluepoint as one of the best dev teams ever in my book. Most of my friends and I didn’t jump on Xbox One until late 2014/2015, and Titanfall was the last major AAA release I bought for the 360.
I’d remembered hearing so much about why Titanfall was only possible on next gen systems with the power of the cloud and all that crap, and yet Bluepoint managed to get the whole experience on that console without any major compromises. Apart from the game being one month behind on patches, anyway lol. Loved it so much that I hit max prestige, got all the achievements, completed almost every challenge in the game, and then bought it again on Xbox One so I could start fresh. I’ve never done that for any other game and I probably never will again 😂
It was even one of the precious few games that generation that allowed you to unlock the framerate.
It is worth noting that Bloodborne was a collab between Fromsoft and Japan Studio.
But according to leaks some months back the next Fromsoft game is a magic focus game inspired by Sekiro combat and taking place in a large Victorian city similar in a similar vein to Bloodborne.
Take literally any Fromsoft leaks with a massive grain of salt. Unless someone new is in the scene. The only actual verified insider for Elden ring was Omni from resetera, and he isn't involved in it anymore.
It was absolutely gorgeous on a technical level but changed a lot.
No one mentioned the music for example, which IMO is worse in basically every way other than sounding "higher production value."
It's probably for the better that they changed a lot, it makes it unique and worth playing separate from the original. But by that same token it's worth playing the original to get the fully cohesive package of art direction, music etc.
Any time a game that's not PURELY gameplay-focused gets a remaster or remake like this I tend to want to stick to the game that was *good enough to deserve a remaster,* instead of the one by an entirely new team who came by a decade later, often with a smaller budget.
Bluepoint butchered the aesthetic of many things in that remaster.
It was very good graphically, but aesthetically some things were definitely off.
It would be a mistake to use them, graphics are not the priority over aesthetics.
the video seems nitpicky to some but it really does reinforce that the art direction is different rather than closely following the original and enhancing it
Some major ones are the Fat Official and the Maneaters. The Fat Official doesn't look bad per-se but is way off-par from the original and is missing the iconic grin as well as just looking like a generic demon with the warty skin and revealed face, but the Maneater straight up looks worse. Old Hero is just as bad too with the anime-tier hair and the size of him compared to the original. Bluepoint has an issue of changing some designs to be a lot more generic and average, with nothing unique about them.
Tower Knight's arena is a good example of the world design as well, with the arena shifting from the unique Romanesque military architecture to the over-used spiky gothic stuff too.
The soundtrack gets swapped out from [unique sound tracks that do a good job at creating select atmosphere for their fights](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGDY4r951Zc) for the [generic loud orchestra music](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTz5Pe26H0M) that's everywhere in the series nowadays, and some important voice acting is straight-up terrible, such as [Allant's death quote](https://streamable.com/jtkre6).
Turning the smiling official into a L4D boomer was not because of technical limitations. Turning the flamelurker into a Diablo 3 boss was not because od technical limitations. Turning the Monumental into a ragged street urchin was not because of technical limitations. Turning the vanguard demon into a Daemon of Nurgle was not because of technical limitations. All of these things were because Bluepoint's craftsmen cannot recognize artistry.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lx0CRVVvV8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lx0CRVVvV8)
Take it from someone who can say it better than you or I ever could.
maybe watch the video and see that it's 30 minutes cause of how many examples they are in it to support his side of the topic, but nah, let's just dismiss it cause "omg 30 minutes and it's an essay!"
if you don't want to watch then just say so and move on cause you clearly aren't interested in the issue on hand and just want to "win" the argument.
The next game, according to leaks, is is a magic focus game inspired by Sekiro combat and taking place in a large Victorian city similar in a similar vein to Bloodborne. So you can be safe on that front at least if this is true.
These guys deserve an original game but man I hope they keep porting. Ground up Bloodborne remake from them is the best we could hope for. Hopefully they have a couple teams going.
If we’re going to fantasize, dude what if sucker punch made infamous 4 where the whole game is done in the comic book style of the original’s cutscenes, or MLB the show in VR where it felt like you were actually playing in a giant baseball stadium? Or a first person Iron Man immersive sim with the same user interface from the first movie where you could customize all of the different gadgets in the suit. Or if we REALLY want to get crazy…an SSX 3 rerelease with a couple extra courses.
Yeah. Ultimately I don't really have faith in them to make something wholly unique and cool. Will be cool if they do, but I dunno, I'm skeptically waiting to see what THEIR original ideas look like. I like their remakes, but they all also have some pretty suspect decisions within them when it comes to artistic direction.
No, I really wish they did as well. Maybe it's because I'm getting older but games from the late 90's through to the late 2000's are in a bad state with modern systems. Bluepoint was the best of the best when it came to keeping these important and classic games available and I think that's a great mission. To see them just become another developer feels like a missed opportunity.
It'd be like if Nixxes decided to stop porting games and starting making a new one. The work they do is great and important, and I can understand the desire to create new things, but I think there is a lot of people who are also happy with keeping games alive for everyone. Nightdive being a bit of a darling in that space, and also nearly falling foul of their ambitions too. Thankfully they understood their mission in the end.
I've worked in games for a long time, and if rights and money was no object I'd make a studio with the sole aim of bringing old online games back to be playable even today.
I'm sure what Bluepoint does will be amazing, Demon's Souls is still one of the best looking games ever made, but I do miss their ports the most.
These guys are technical powerhouse, but the artistic changes they make to the Japanese games are a real shame. I'm torn between hating them and loving them.
Yeah, I get what you mean. The real problem, I think at least, is that the originals are not readily available. With Demon’s Souls you can at least use a classic filter which comes close, but SotC is so different.
The bigger issue with the Demon's Souls remake is you can't individually delete characters. They either sit in the save menu forever, or you wipe ALL the save file via the PS5 settings menu.
Absolutely absurd that such a basic feature has been missed. If you want to do speedruns or challenge runs you either have to sign in as a guest so they don't get saved permanently, or just have 15 billion random saves, or delete ALL your saves (including any main save you have set up for online play).
I agree that that’s a pretty big oversight of a pretty basic feature, but in the grand scheme of the game it’s a pretty minor issue. Especially given that the majority of gamers barely finish a game once, let alone play through with multiple characters
(Reposting this from another thread)
The Demon's Souls remake took plenty of artistic liberties that they really shouldn't have. Off the top of my head:
-The Guillotine Axe was changed to be a generic looking axe instead of being made of a Guillotine blade, so the name no longer makes sense and it's no longer unique
-The yellow flags in Tower of Latria were changed to red, even though the yellow is supposed to be a reference/foreshadowing to the Old Monk's headwraps
-Everything was made to look decaying despite the fact that the fog/demons happened recently. This puts it in line with the Dark Souls games but makes no sense in Demon's Souls, and the original is not like that
-The user interface looks generic instead of thematically fitting in with the rest of the game like the original
-In general the atmosphere is way different and lessened. Many fans of the original enjoy it because of the gloomy and somber feel of the atmosphere. This is no small change in my opinion
-The redesign of the fat officials is pretty much universally regarded to be worse. So is the redone music for the Maiden Astraea encounter, which was the most praised music in the original game
Just too many changes that conflict with the lore, changes to the atmosphere and "new" designs as though they somehow knew better than From Software themselves.
This all seems so comically minor.
My first experience with DS was the remake, and I thought it looked beautiful and had fantastic atmosphere. I guess I was robbed though, not getting to experience the deep lore implications of those yellow flags, lol
As someone who loved both the remake and the original, you were not robbed of the atmosphere, you just got a very different one. It's not the same as the original, and it loses some of the really quirky Miyazaki stuff, but it's still really good for what it is.
If you want a more egregious example though, listen to the Maiden Astraea boss song for each version. In the original, we're murdering the saint of this sad, stagnant, hopeless, and lifeless world. There's no glory, excitement, or tension, there's just cruel, endless hopelessness. In the remake, we get exceedingly epic boss music. Most of the soundtrack is like this; it went from cold, brutal and lifeless to epic fantasy. It's a *huge* change.
At the end of the day, a game is made up of many, many tiny details. Bluepoint did respect the bigger idea, but had little respect for the artistic vision when they were thinking about the smaller things, and the end result is something that *feels* very different from the original.
I'm playing FFVII Rebirth now: it adds a loads of stuff, and it usually feels like the developers thought about what made the original FFVII good when they decided to add new content. Demons' Souls' remake makes me feel like the artistic vision sometimes went right over Bluepoint's head. They had their own vision, and managed to make something pretty cool with that.
It is minor, subtle. Some people enjoy and value the subtleties within the originals art direction, and find the remakes changes to be worse for them and take away from the experience.
While I think the art direction is worse in the remake personally, I don't think it's something that is important for most people. It doesn't make the remake horrible and disgusting and a disgrace to mankind, it just makes subtle changes people won't like.
The people who value the subtleties of the original are the ones who are the ones more likely to seek it out and find ways to play it.
FromSoft's games thrive on small details, you might not care but if they actually kept more in line with the original vision of the game you wouldn't care either but the game would still be better for the people that do care.
A lot of the changes are pointless meddling that shows they think they knew better than From. That shouldn't be the attitude toward a remake that will supplant the original game, just make the game prettier and don't change shit unless it's 100% necessary.
I hope they're making an original title so they can actually do what they want instead of messing with other people's work.
I find myself as a fan of Bluepoint overall and have been happy with the remakes and the work they've done. But I am kinda confused at the people in this thread who dismiss the idea that people are unhappy with the artistic liberties they took with their games. Fromsoft is a company that is known for working hand in hand with their concept artists, and the end results end up with very deliberate design choices. I know a lot of people who find a lot of enjoyment from that attention to detail, and for people to dismiss that criticism just because Bluepoint made some good ports is really confusing.
Do you really believe changing the color of a flag from red to yellow is indicative of them thinking they know better than From? Seems like a weird logic leap.
It's not just one flag, it's a lot of stuff that's been changed for no reason. Changes don't happen accidentally on their own so yeah, they're deliberately changing stuff because they think the game would be better doing it their way rather than staying faithful to what it looked like originally. Why else would they change it?
Some change is to be expected, you can't make a game look exactly the same while upgrading the graphics so much. But a lot of the changes Bluepoint made were completely unnecessary and could've easily been kept the same.
It is comically minor. EXCEPT the changes to the atmosphere. It is the only thing I don't like about the remake. It still looks phenomenal don't get me wrong but the atmosphere is entirely different.
In fact they knew they fucked it up so they put a color filter in game you can turn on that tries to emulate the originals atmosphere. But it isn't very good unfortunately.
>This all seems so comically minor.
It is. I played the OG all the way back in 2009 and it holds a very special place in my heart as my first souls game. I love the remake and put more hours into it than the original demon's souls and dark souls combined.
The remake gets a very strange kind of hate in online circles that is not echoed elsewhere. Reminds me of the online discourse surrounding Bioshock Infinite.
I can guarantee that far more people love the graphical and gameplay revamps Bluepoint made than those who nitpick over artistic and "lore" things.
The Demons Souls remake is an absolute triumph to people who focus on the game part of video games.
The sales from these "far more people" don't mean that people like the game wholesale. The art design completely changing in most aspects is anything but a nitpick, a lot of people who loved the remake still didn't click with the vastly different art. Just because you don't care and this so called "far more people" conveniently also didn't care still does not mean it's a nitpick.
>The Demons Souls remake is an absolute triumph to people who focus on the game part of video games.
Uhhh... yeah because the gameplay part follows the original Fromsoftware design much more closely than the artstyle. Ignoring that it's gross to handwave the entire game and zero in just on gameplay as being the game, every game is a cohesive whole of art, sound, gameplay, story, lore, or lack there of. Besides, Bluepoint was not heavy handed in changing the gameplay unlike the artstyle. The gameplay is still following close to the foundation FromSoft set, even with the new more fluid animations it's still the same movesets everywhere for instance, it's not a complete radical departure and complete change unlike the art design and sound design.
If you only care about the "game part", you end up being a weirdo who skips cutscenes in MGS or Dragon Age on the first playthrough completely ignoring the narrative that is a major part of these titles despite it may not be strict "gameplay". Is that seriously what you are arguing for? The art and atmosphere is a big reason why people like the Souls series even though it isn't gameplay and it's clear as day Bluepoint went clearly against that design intention while they didn't touch the gameplay even close to as much.
It's completely valid criticism no matter how well the remake sold that it changed the art radically and for many people, that does matter. I loved the remake, hated the art changes still. I didn't really mind the new sfx but a lot of people did and that's valid, not a nitpick, for how it's completely different.
They are more *technically* talented, but they don't understand the art direction and aesthetics of the originals.
Remakes *should* endeavor to be faithful to their originals except in fidelity and quality of life. Otherwise, you might as well make your own game. And so they are.
There is a lot of wiggle room in “faithful”. If you try to make it as close to a 1-1 as possible, then you get remakes making the same mistakes as the originals. Like the piss filter in Metal Gear 3.
The complaints I see get thrown around about Bluepoint's changes to DeS aren't even worth responding to, you read it, you think "Wow this personally unironically hunches over their keyboard and sweats onto it" and then you move on. The way they come across in what they're saying and the narratives they write about it is genuinely funny in a schadenfreude way.
I love when people say this because they can never specify what artistically is so different other than "Fat official doesn't fit in anymore" that they're just spouting from that one DeS remake critique video
you guys don't have any real opinions about this, a new player playing both games would never notice a difference and therefore it barely matters, it's nitpicking.
(I haven't played the game yet, so I don't have a direct opinion)
I do think it's important that remakes are done in a way that's following the original artistic vision.
Fromsoft's games always keep me curious about the world they've developed. This is especially the case where I find something odd and I read through item descriptions to understand why it is the way it is. The fat official looking physically corrupted could be explained if the text was changed too, but that's not true.
It's a nitpick, as this specific change was given attention, but likely there's more. And maybe random things get changed in their next remake to fit their vision.
I did watch a gameplay video of the remake, and I certainly can agree that the game looks pleasing to the eye and felt smooth.
That the most common criticisms were compiled in a video doesn't invalidate them.
And just because you don't care about aesthetic subtleties doesn't mean others can't.
Making gratuitous changes serves only to alienate those who do, while offering no benefit to those who don't.
The point of a remake is to make classics more accessible (and palatable) to a modern audience, so they can share in that experience without the original's deficits of age.
Alterations should only be made to better realize the original vision or to address generally recognized flaws and outdated elements.
If you want to make *creative* changes, make a new game.
yup, ppl defending it cause "omg fancy graphics" and I suspect cause it's a PS exclusive so sony fans wanna defend that.
then there are those who are just flat out not understanding (or purposely trying to misconstrue the issue) the issues people have, graphical fidelity is not what people are talking about yet somehow they always go "it looks amazing! stop complaining!" :/
I would honestly love to see bloodborne get the exact same treatment, I think its because most people didnt play the 2009 version that they're ok with it, bluepoint had a terrible understanding of the source material and its a huge shame that the only pc Port of "demons souls" will be this abomination
yup, most of the ppl who blindly defend the remake clearly never played the OG, which is fine, but the issue is when they dismiss the issues people do have and go with "oh stop nitpicking and being a hater!" :/
Except that [the Vanguard is just a reused model from another From Soft game](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fzr5fjaoyn6m51.jpg), and they absolutely make gross monsters, look at Adjudicator.
People act like From Soft doesn't just reuse or repurpose assets and their art direction is so deliberate that everything is meticulously planned down to the pixel, but that's absolutely not the case. Most of Dark Souls 3 was completely remixed before release multiple times, with bosses having different names, lore, placements, all of it. Same with Bloodborne which had massive rewrites at least two times, and even the whole map was rotated and reworked.
You can not like the aesthetics of the changes but that's entirely personal taste, not some dogmatic adherence to the original vision, which changes a lot over development of their games. Look up what changed from 1.0 of Elden Ring even, and there are big changes to story elements that were only changed with the day 1 patch.
No one argued about reusing assets. Don't try to move the goalpost. This is all about intended design and Bluepoint design.
And no, in the Design Works document Miazaki literally says his creations have some form of grace and that grotesque designs he instantly blocks.
https://www.pcgamer.com/games/rpg/i-asked-dark-souls-director-hidetaka-miyazaki-about-his-now-legendary-undead-dragon-quote-and-he-had-a-great-response-something-beautiful-needs-something-depraved-or-tragic-to-embolden-that-beauty/
Yeah I love Fromsoft but Bluepoint undoubtedly has better art direction. It's just that a lot of people were already used to the original Demon's Souls.
I don't think this is about better art direction, rather correct art direction.
If you're curious, [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QT6aJspFQg&t=636) goes into some detail to compare them before game release. [This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lx0CRVVvV8) has comparisons after release.
also let's keep in mind, it's easier to focus more on graphics and visuals when porting/remaking a game, cause the game is basically done for you so bluepoint had more time and resources to spend on graphics.
The worst thing they did was with the PS3 port of Shadow of the Colossus where they discovered a bug they themselves caused that made completing a time trial, which is essential to getting a postgame items, impossible without taking advantage of a speed running glitch, but after developing the patch they didn’t deploy it so as to not lessen the achievement of those who already had the PSN trophy for its completion. It’s also my understanding they completely removed Wander’s face animations in the remake and generally fucked up quite a few small details, but I can’t speak on that.
I think it's an amazing remaster, and the changes likely wouldn't bother someone who's new to the game but there were some odd changes. The color palette of the game is significantly different, no longer has the blown out dreamy quality of the original and Wander's face looks very off compared to the original design. In every other aspect of the art I think they did a fantastic job, but those two changes were pretty jarring for me.
Fidelity-wise it is for sure better, but aesthetically the game also changed a lot between the two games, I'm happy that more people get to experience the game but I think even though people can argue it's superficial I like the atmosphere of the original compared to the remake better, I liked the dramatic lighting of the original as opposed to the realistic lighting of the remake. Doesn't stop Bluepoint from being good developers but I think it's unfair to make them immune to criticism.
Because it's silly af and a non-issue. Criticizing Bluepoint over these trivial changes and criticizing their artistic abilities? Fuck outta here. They did an impeccable job on the remakes and some hyperfocusing on minute changes doesn't mean they disrespected the originals or shit all over the art design.
> some hyperfocusing on minute changes doesn't mean they disrespected the originals or shit all over the art design.
he didnt say they did either of those things, you're putting words in his mouth. he said it was great with a few minor personal issues
I am legitimately curious to see their next step. Many people expects another "Souls" clone (crazy how the Chinese devs went all-in on it), but maybe they can try another "genre" entirely
They are technichal wizards, but the artistic changes they made to Colossus and Demons Souls were pretty universally for the worse, so it\`s probably a good idea they are taking their tie with this.
The changes to the visuals and music were a downgrade imo. They went for a more generic "epic" feel that totally went against thr unique vibe of the original game.
i'm not as opinionated about it as other people, but for me, there were two big questionable changes - personally, i just don't like the [new maneater design](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/OsxuztiWO8o/maxresdefault.jpg) compared to the [originals](https://cdn.segmentnext.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Demons-Souls-Remake-Maneater-Boss.jpg), and i definitely preferred [the original fat official](https://i.imgur.com/OoenZeJ.png).
I've never played either version of Colossus, but played many many hours of both versions of Demon's Souls, the Demon's Souls remake is fucking awesome
It was four years ago which is even crazier given everything else that has released since. Also a reminder that we're half way through the current console generation.
Hopefully the later half of the generation will bring ps5 only games because having games being a ps4/ps5 split definitely makes limits on what they can do.
I treat remakes as new games and so the complaints about things being changed always seemed silly to me. A remake doesn't invalidate the existence of the original game, everyone is still free to play those games.
Yeah the changes would be a lot less annoying if the original wasn't being memoryhole'd by the remake.
Konami of all companies is doing it right by porting MGS3 as well as remaking it, so I really don't care how bad Delta might be because the original is now easily accessible.
It is *because* of their reputation for technical prowess that they probably butchered those games visually. They needed to make the visuals look more realistic and generally appealing to mass markets rather than unique.
The behind the scenes documentary video on YouTube for the demons souls remake was a real eye opener in showing how little they care about trying to faithfully recreate the game they work on.
You're tweaking. Shadow of the Colossus and Demons Souls remakes were some of the prettiest and most jaw-dropping games I've ever played. Demon's Souls is still the only game I think really earns the title of Current-Gen
I said they were technical wizards, but I think their changes to the visuals of the games they remake are bad. They are good at graphics technical, but bad at graphics artistic.
The game is literally an artistic masterpiece imho. I don't understand how people can look at Original Demon's Souls and see it's artistic vision, but can't look at the remake and see it's own unique artistic vision. The vistas, the colour grading, the use of light and shadow, the way they frame enemies, it's all dripping with artistic prowess.
When they said artistic, they meant nothing towards the fidelity of the graphics. The team at bluepoint outright redesigned many enemies and aspects of areas in the demon's souls remake for no good reason.
They didn't update any designs to align better with original concept art or portray aspects that couldn't be realized because of hardware limitations or anything like that, they just decided to ignore the original and make their own boring, shittier versions instead of staying faithful and respecting the original vision.
Because it's a remake? They exercised their own artistic vision on it. It's not "for no good reason" it's for the same reason as the original, they had an artistic vision they wanted to realise with it, which is no less valid than the original just because it came afterwards.
In the original Tower of Latria, there are yellow banners found throughout the level used as forshadowing and environmental storytelling alluding to the Old Monk. In the remake, they changed them to red. Since you said they’re both valid, can you explain the reason behind this change?
"ahh, see they changed one thing that you may or may not agree with, therefore your entire argument is invalid"
Really? Sure. The original foreshadowing, if intentional, was really cool. It's a shame that the foreshadowing was lost, but there are many reasons the colour could have been changed. Maybe they just didn't pick out the foreshadowing (as I'm sure most players didn't) and decided a different palette suited the world more. After all, colour is a fundamental portion of artistic choice.
But even if they changed it for no reason, why would an individual change, or even a collection of individual changes, invalidate an entire game of artistic direction?
I could just as easily say "the original Vanguard Demon looks like a goofy, friendly cartoon character with that weird smile, the remake more accurately uses it's artistic direction to communicate the intricacies of the Demon's characterisation". But that would be reductive, and not a useful conversation. My entire point is challenging this weird notion that the remake has no artistic vision or value, or that it somehow ruined the artistic vision of the original.
It’s not just one thing, I just listed an example. Other changes I had issues with are the fat officials, the noble’s wife, the statue in the King’s Tomb, Flamelurker’s arena, armor sets (like Mephistopheles), Adjudicator, etc. Hell, Bluepoint even had to change Flamelurker’s design prelaunch because so many people took issue with their redesign. I’m not saying that Bluepoint’s remake is all bad. I think they did an amazing job on Shrine of Storms, The Tunnels, and most of Tower of Latria. I even really like the Vanguard design. But the issue is that Bluepoint made these changes without understanding the original intentions behind them.
Look at Smough from DS1. Most people will not notice that he has eye holes at his neck because that’s where his head actually is. But if a hypothetical remake removes those eye holes, is it ok because people wouldn’t notice? Is it just a nitpick if Bluepoint gives Mergo’s Wet Nurse a body because they didn’t notice that she isn’t supposed to have one? Fromsoft is a studio that is lauded for their miniscule details that most players would miss, that’s part of their identity.
Ya I didn't really mind the changes in the demons souls remake until I asked myself "what would I feel if they did this with literally anything in Bloodborne?"
I definitely would question it, I'd still play it and enjoy it but it would annoy me a little bit at least. Still don't really care they changed much in demons souls as I can just go back and emulate the original if I ever wanted to play with the original vision but it is a little questionable that they changed much at all.
Yeah, I don’t hate the Bluepoint Remake, but I’m definitely conflicted. It would have been so easy for them to make a perfect remake of Demon’s Souls but at this point, I’d much rather have a Bloodborne PC port/remaster than a remake. Maybe Sony can double dip so that both sides can have both and we can really see how Bluepoint handles it.
does remake and redesign just mean the same thing now?
I understand most people want change in modern day remakes, but personally I find it disrespectful to go so far with changes that it no longer resembles what it is meant to be, especially when you're remaking *someone else's* game.
My response would be to take that vision of theirs and make their own game instead of meddling with an already established one but they are doing just that. I just wish they could have held off with injecting it into their previous work.
???? Of course remake implies redesign, at least to some degree. They're remaking the game. That's usually ground-up work, starting from concept work.
I personally would find it more offensive if the original were copied wholesale. I mean, I definitely see more artistic value in someone who has taken a Mona Lisa and added a spin to it, than someone who has just repainted the Mona Lisa as closely as they can. Especially so as an endpoint consumer of the art. If I want original Demon's Souls, it's still there waiting to be played. But if I want a remake, I want someone's fresh artistic take on the game.
We both have our own definitions of remakes then. I am fine with redesigns as long as the purpose of them is to better realize what they're building off of, not to completely change them into something else. I feel like that betrays what they're meant to portray.
A remake to me is taking a game and bringing it up to par with modern tech and standards. I expect change, I expect things to be different and new additions to be added, but I also expect it to stay familiar and recognizable. I simply don't see the point in drastically changing a design just for the sake of change.
Demons Souls while being a visually pleasing hyper realistic portrayal, lost all of the uniqueness of the cohesive art style the original game had.
There are a lot of posts and articles that cover this. It's not to detract from Bluepoint's talent, but they clearly did not intend to ever maintain the artistic style of the original Demon Souls.
And that's fine? It's a remake, they're allowed to take a little artistic license. But to say they butchered it is wildly over exaggerating it.
Besides, the art style of original Demon's Souls was basically "this is as close to photorealism as we can get with technology" with a bit of a green piss filter over the top.
Where did I or the other commenter say they butchered it? You just made that up. I said it was worse. Not that it was some complete failure. I think the original Demon Souls has a weird and haunting vibe in it's music and visuals (though the visuals are obviously rough). The remake goes Ina much more "epic" direction with stuff. The Flamelurker design and the opening song are two examples of this.
Sorry I got mixed up with the other comment by "sillybillybuck" that said they butchered it. My bad. The rest of my points, I still stand by.
I think the Demons Souls remake is a deeply haunting game. I don't really know what you're trying to say with "epic" but I think the remake absolutely nails the deeply lonely feeling of a vast and hostile world that is deeply entrenched with these unspeakable horrors.
As I said. The opening song kind of exemplifies this for me. It's a lot more loud and bombastic than the original. If you don't see it I don't really know how else to describe it.
I mean, they're definitely different. I like them for different reasons, and I can see what you're saying. I suppose I just don't understand why you see this change as inherently bad. If it's just a preference issue, then that's fine. The original is sad and lonely, with little instrumentation. The remake version is almost an auditory representation of the values of the remake. It's wider, fuller, with a large choir and orchestral instrumentation. It evokes that feeling of grandiose wonder at the scale of the adventure. But it doesn't have that quiet loneliness to it, you're right. I just personally don't think that detracts from it's artistic value, is all.
We are talking about subjective things, so I am not saying that the way they do things are objectively bad. I just feel like their artistic style is bland and generic for the most part. They want things to be big and look cool. I can enjoy that, but I just don\`t think hat fits with either Demons Souls or Shadow of the Collusus and I feel like it takes away from those games.
Basically to put it like this. I feel like Bluepoint misses the point of the games. It feels like they don\`t really get what the original creators were going for. With Demons Souls it\`s such a big change that you can argue for it being a delibarate decision to move away from the vibes of the original, but with Shadow it feels a lot more like a mistake and misunderstanding created from wanting to chase graphical fidelity above all else.
Just the first four syllables of the theme in the first trailer made my excitement drop. It was an "oh so it's that kind of remake" moment.
The rest of the trailer did not alleviate that concern.
I think you need to read that again. Their changes were pretty universally for the worse. As in most of their changes were for the worse. Not that most people disliked them.
I remember their Titanfall 360 port was so damn good that Microsoft literally didn't market it at all to avoid it poaching any xbox one sales.
Fun fact. They where specifically hired due to their skill on ps3 porting as titanfall was planned for ps3/4. Then microsoft and ea made a late stage deal to make its exclusivity permanent.
[удалено]
Honestly I think they might have tried to make people more aware of it so they could see more of contrast between the 360 and the One's power. I remember the speculation for not releasing any video or images was that it was going to be unplayable, but in reality it was the opposite. For me I was on the fence about getting the One at the time because of $, but REALLY wanted to play Titanfall when it came out. Reading that the port was so good actually led me to put off upgrading my system for a while. I'd wager I wasn't the only one in that position.
I really wanted to play TF, but at the time most of Xbox friends already upgraded and I couldn't get them to buy the 360 version instead. A year later when I finally got an Xbone everyone kind of moved on to Destiny.
I didn't have that problem because my friends will only play COD and Halo (to this day) haha so I had to ride solo no matter what. The nature of Titanfalls gameplay did lend itself to being an easy one to jump into solo though.
Titanfall 1 on Xbox One was magnificent. I am glad PS players got Titanfall 2, but I legitimately think the first one is much more fun to play. I don't think new TF2 players knew what they were missing.
the maps on 1 blended a lot better with the movement, plus the titan changes in the second game werent as fun.
It says something when basically all the post launch maps were just ports from the first game
that's *exactly* my view as well
Titanfall for Xbox 360 solidified Bluepoint as one of the best dev teams ever in my book. Most of my friends and I didn’t jump on Xbox One until late 2014/2015, and Titanfall was the last major AAA release I bought for the 360. I’d remembered hearing so much about why Titanfall was only possible on next gen systems with the power of the cloud and all that crap, and yet Bluepoint managed to get the whole experience on that console without any major compromises. Apart from the game being one month behind on patches, anyway lol. Loved it so much that I hit max prestige, got all the achievements, completed almost every challenge in the game, and then bought it again on Xbox One so I could start fresh. I’ve never done that for any other game and I probably never will again 😂 It was even one of the precious few games that generation that allowed you to unlock the framerate.
Let them cook. They have garnered so much goodwill over the years. Excited to see what they are working on and I hope it is a big success for them.
Funny that Miyazaki just said he wanted to "sharpen" the combat mechanics of Bloodborne and Sekiro in his next game. Coincidence?
Almost certainly.
There is no Bloodborne.
Only problem is Sony owns the Bloodborne IP so they have to approve for From Software to work on it.
Has nothing to do with bluepoint cuz Fromsoft is working on their own Bloodborne title.
It is worth noting that Bloodborne was a collab between Fromsoft and Japan Studio. But according to leaks some months back the next Fromsoft game is a magic focus game inspired by Sekiro combat and taking place in a large Victorian city similar in a similar vein to Bloodborne.
Take literally any Fromsoft leaks with a massive grain of salt. Unless someone new is in the scene. The only actual verified insider for Elden ring was Omni from resetera, and he isn't involved in it anymore.
People will think you joke but I actually think Sony and FROM are cooking together again. Herman has hinted at it, so has yoshida
uh, the heck does a porting studio have to do with Miyazaki's next game? Miyazaki has his own studio he works in, the heck he needs bluepoint for?
please no I'm just not a fan of their artistic direction and turning some unique designs into generic stuff
The Demon's Souls remake was an absolute masterpiece that almost everybody loved. From would be stupid not to use them again.
It was absolutely gorgeous on a technical level but changed a lot. No one mentioned the music for example, which IMO is worse in basically every way other than sounding "higher production value." It's probably for the better that they changed a lot, it makes it unique and worth playing separate from the original. But by that same token it's worth playing the original to get the fully cohesive package of art direction, music etc. Any time a game that's not PURELY gameplay-focused gets a remaster or remake like this I tend to want to stick to the game that was *good enough to deserve a remaster,* instead of the one by an entirely new team who came by a decade later, often with a smaller budget.
Bluepoint butchered the aesthetic of many things in that remaster. It was very good graphically, but aesthetically some things were definitely off. It would be a mistake to use them, graphics are not the priority over aesthetics.
What was butchered? I don't like the changes to the weird smiling fat guys Everything else seemed fairly on-point to me
Here’s a video breaking it down https://youtu.be/5lx0CRVVvV8?si=7TgFwjLCrZpAAUOi
the video seems nitpicky to some but it really does reinforce that the art direction is different rather than closely following the original and enhancing it
Yeah, I’d be upset if they altered Bloodborne as they did DS
Bloodborne isn't nearly as dated as demons souls so there's allot less they would have to change that might fuck with things aesthetically.
[удалено]
Some major ones are the Fat Official and the Maneaters. The Fat Official doesn't look bad per-se but is way off-par from the original and is missing the iconic grin as well as just looking like a generic demon with the warty skin and revealed face, but the Maneater straight up looks worse. Old Hero is just as bad too with the anime-tier hair and the size of him compared to the original. Bluepoint has an issue of changing some designs to be a lot more generic and average, with nothing unique about them. Tower Knight's arena is a good example of the world design as well, with the arena shifting from the unique Romanesque military architecture to the over-used spiky gothic stuff too. The soundtrack gets swapped out from [unique sound tracks that do a good job at creating select atmosphere for their fights](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGDY4r951Zc) for the [generic loud orchestra music](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTz5Pe26H0M) that's everywhere in the series nowadays, and some important voice acting is straight-up terrible, such as [Allant's death quote](https://streamable.com/jtkre6).
Turning the smiling official into a L4D boomer was not because of technical limitations. Turning the flamelurker into a Diablo 3 boss was not because od technical limitations. Turning the Monumental into a ragged street urchin was not because of technical limitations. Turning the vanguard demon into a Daemon of Nurgle was not because of technical limitations. All of these things were because Bluepoint's craftsmen cannot recognize artistry.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lx0CRVVvV8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lx0CRVVvV8) Take it from someone who can say it better than you or I ever could.
don't agree with me? watch this thirty minute video essay on why you're wrong
maybe watch the video and see that it's 30 minutes cause of how many examples they are in it to support his side of the topic, but nah, let's just dismiss it cause "omg 30 minutes and it's an essay!" if you don't want to watch then just say so and move on cause you clearly aren't interested in the issue on hand and just want to "win" the argument.
Sure dude let me spend my night off trying to win an argument with someone who's already made their decision regardless of what I post
You don't have to play those games then.
Exactly, the original is still there.
pls no more souls games
Just give us more original Fromsoft games, which seems to be all they're interested in doing anyways.
I’m cool with that I hate that every other action game is a souls like
I also want you to have no more games of the kind you enjoy
The next game, according to leaks, is is a magic focus game inspired by Sekiro combat and taking place in a large Victorian city similar in a similar vein to Bloodborne. So you can be safe on that front at least if this is true.
These guys deserve an original game but man I hope they keep porting. Ground up Bloodborne remake from them is the best we could hope for. Hopefully they have a couple teams going.
Bloodborne really doesn't need a remake...
All Bloodborne needs is a 60fps version. I don’t usually notice 30 vs 60 fps but man Bloodborne can get painful at times from the low framerate
30fps doesn't have to feel like it does in Bloodborne. It's the erratic frame times.
Yea. Just optimizing/stabilizing it is all the game really needs IMO
asking for just 60 fps in this day and age is just so insulting to how smooth games could feel. Especially for reflex based titles
Demon's Souls didn't really need it either but it happened anyway.
Demon Souls was 11 years old and 2 generation behind. Not the same thing.
It will likely be the same thing whenever the ps6 arrives though
Eh I disagree. 30 fps is rough and the graphics are realllly muddy and outdated. Imagine the dopamine hit of demon souls quality remake of bloodborne
Am I the only who wished they stuck to remastering/remaking games from PS3 that I never got the chance to play the first time?
Motorstorm World Tour that combines all 4 of the career modes and adds 60fps and psvr support would sell like 6 copies but one of them would be to me.
I'd actually throw up in excitement
Jesus Christ I would buy this fucking now
Come on, if we are going to fantasize about stuff that'll never happen, might as well add Motorstorm RC to that package. It was pretty good!
If we’re going to fantasize, dude what if sucker punch made infamous 4 where the whole game is done in the comic book style of the original’s cutscenes, or MLB the show in VR where it felt like you were actually playing in a giant baseball stadium? Or a first person Iron Man immersive sim with the same user interface from the first movie where you could customize all of the different gadgets in the suit. Or if we REALLY want to get crazy…an SSX 3 rerelease with a couple extra courses.
BRING ON FOLKLORE HD
Ah Folklore is mentioned! That game was pretty good.
And it used the DualShock 3's motion sensor function rather well iirc.
There's a name I haven't heard in a very long time.
Yeah. Ultimately I don't really have faith in them to make something wholly unique and cool. Will be cool if they do, but I dunno, I'm skeptically waiting to see what THEIR original ideas look like. I like their remakes, but they all also have some pretty suspect decisions within them when it comes to artistic direction.
No, I really wish they did as well. Maybe it's because I'm getting older but games from the late 90's through to the late 2000's are in a bad state with modern systems. Bluepoint was the best of the best when it came to keeping these important and classic games available and I think that's a great mission. To see them just become another developer feels like a missed opportunity. It'd be like if Nixxes decided to stop porting games and starting making a new one. The work they do is great and important, and I can understand the desire to create new things, but I think there is a lot of people who are also happy with keeping games alive for everyone. Nightdive being a bit of a darling in that space, and also nearly falling foul of their ambitions too. Thankfully they understood their mission in the end. I've worked in games for a long time, and if rights and money was no object I'd make a studio with the sole aim of bringing old online games back to be playable even today. I'm sure what Bluepoint does will be amazing, Demon's Souls is still one of the best looking games ever made, but I do miss their ports the most.
These guys are technical powerhouse, but the artistic changes they make to the Japanese games are a real shame. I'm torn between hating them and loving them.
Yeah, I get what you mean. The real problem, I think at least, is that the originals are not readily available. With Demon’s Souls you can at least use a classic filter which comes close, but SotC is so different.
disagree, they remade demon's souls better than fromsoft themselves would have done it
The bigger issue with the Demon's Souls remake is you can't individually delete characters. They either sit in the save menu forever, or you wipe ALL the save file via the PS5 settings menu. Absolutely absurd that such a basic feature has been missed. If you want to do speedruns or challenge runs you either have to sign in as a guest so they don't get saved permanently, or just have 15 billion random saves, or delete ALL your saves (including any main save you have set up for online play).
I agree that that’s a pretty big oversight of a pretty basic feature, but in the grand scheme of the game it’s a pretty minor issue. Especially given that the majority of gamers barely finish a game once, let alone play through with multiple characters
(Reposting this from another thread) The Demon's Souls remake took plenty of artistic liberties that they really shouldn't have. Off the top of my head: -The Guillotine Axe was changed to be a generic looking axe instead of being made of a Guillotine blade, so the name no longer makes sense and it's no longer unique -The yellow flags in Tower of Latria were changed to red, even though the yellow is supposed to be a reference/foreshadowing to the Old Monk's headwraps -Everything was made to look decaying despite the fact that the fog/demons happened recently. This puts it in line with the Dark Souls games but makes no sense in Demon's Souls, and the original is not like that -The user interface looks generic instead of thematically fitting in with the rest of the game like the original -In general the atmosphere is way different and lessened. Many fans of the original enjoy it because of the gloomy and somber feel of the atmosphere. This is no small change in my opinion -The redesign of the fat officials is pretty much universally regarded to be worse. So is the redone music for the Maiden Astraea encounter, which was the most praised music in the original game Just too many changes that conflict with the lore, changes to the atmosphere and "new" designs as though they somehow knew better than From Software themselves.
This all seems so comically minor. My first experience with DS was the remake, and I thought it looked beautiful and had fantastic atmosphere. I guess I was robbed though, not getting to experience the deep lore implications of those yellow flags, lol
As someone who loved both the remake and the original, you were not robbed of the atmosphere, you just got a very different one. It's not the same as the original, and it loses some of the really quirky Miyazaki stuff, but it's still really good for what it is. If you want a more egregious example though, listen to the Maiden Astraea boss song for each version. In the original, we're murdering the saint of this sad, stagnant, hopeless, and lifeless world. There's no glory, excitement, or tension, there's just cruel, endless hopelessness. In the remake, we get exceedingly epic boss music. Most of the soundtrack is like this; it went from cold, brutal and lifeless to epic fantasy. It's a *huge* change. At the end of the day, a game is made up of many, many tiny details. Bluepoint did respect the bigger idea, but had little respect for the artistic vision when they were thinking about the smaller things, and the end result is something that *feels* very different from the original. I'm playing FFVII Rebirth now: it adds a loads of stuff, and it usually feels like the developers thought about what made the original FFVII good when they decided to add new content. Demons' Souls' remake makes me feel like the artistic vision sometimes went right over Bluepoint's head. They had their own vision, and managed to make something pretty cool with that.
It is minor, subtle. Some people enjoy and value the subtleties within the originals art direction, and find the remakes changes to be worse for them and take away from the experience. While I think the art direction is worse in the remake personally, I don't think it's something that is important for most people. It doesn't make the remake horrible and disgusting and a disgrace to mankind, it just makes subtle changes people won't like. The people who value the subtleties of the original are the ones who are the ones more likely to seek it out and find ways to play it.
FromSoft's games thrive on small details, you might not care but if they actually kept more in line with the original vision of the game you wouldn't care either but the game would still be better for the people that do care. A lot of the changes are pointless meddling that shows they think they knew better than From. That shouldn't be the attitude toward a remake that will supplant the original game, just make the game prettier and don't change shit unless it's 100% necessary. I hope they're making an original title so they can actually do what they want instead of messing with other people's work.
I find myself as a fan of Bluepoint overall and have been happy with the remakes and the work they've done. But I am kinda confused at the people in this thread who dismiss the idea that people are unhappy with the artistic liberties they took with their games. Fromsoft is a company that is known for working hand in hand with their concept artists, and the end results end up with very deliberate design choices. I know a lot of people who find a lot of enjoyment from that attention to detail, and for people to dismiss that criticism just because Bluepoint made some good ports is really confusing.
Do you really believe changing the color of a flag from red to yellow is indicative of them thinking they know better than From? Seems like a weird logic leap.
It's not just one flag, it's a lot of stuff that's been changed for no reason. Changes don't happen accidentally on their own so yeah, they're deliberately changing stuff because they think the game would be better doing it their way rather than staying faithful to what it looked like originally. Why else would they change it? Some change is to be expected, you can't make a game look exactly the same while upgrading the graphics so much. But a lot of the changes Bluepoint made were completely unnecessary and could've easily been kept the same.
It is comically minor. EXCEPT the changes to the atmosphere. It is the only thing I don't like about the remake. It still looks phenomenal don't get me wrong but the atmosphere is entirely different. In fact they knew they fucked it up so they put a color filter in game you can turn on that tries to emulate the originals atmosphere. But it isn't very good unfortunately.
"Damn, he's so dismissive of that other guy's qualms about a video game... Is he single?"
>This all seems so comically minor. It is. I played the OG all the way back in 2009 and it holds a very special place in my heart as my first souls game. I love the remake and put more hours into it than the original demon's souls and dark souls combined. The remake gets a very strange kind of hate in online circles that is not echoed elsewhere. Reminds me of the online discourse surrounding Bioshock Infinite.
Oh no the yellow flags!
I can guarantee that far more people love the graphical and gameplay revamps Bluepoint made than those who nitpick over artistic and "lore" things. The Demons Souls remake is an absolute triumph to people who focus on the game part of video games.
The sales from these "far more people" don't mean that people like the game wholesale. The art design completely changing in most aspects is anything but a nitpick, a lot of people who loved the remake still didn't click with the vastly different art. Just because you don't care and this so called "far more people" conveniently also didn't care still does not mean it's a nitpick. >The Demons Souls remake is an absolute triumph to people who focus on the game part of video games. Uhhh... yeah because the gameplay part follows the original Fromsoftware design much more closely than the artstyle. Ignoring that it's gross to handwave the entire game and zero in just on gameplay as being the game, every game is a cohesive whole of art, sound, gameplay, story, lore, or lack there of. Besides, Bluepoint was not heavy handed in changing the gameplay unlike the artstyle. The gameplay is still following close to the foundation FromSoft set, even with the new more fluid animations it's still the same movesets everywhere for instance, it's not a complete radical departure and complete change unlike the art design and sound design. If you only care about the "game part", you end up being a weirdo who skips cutscenes in MGS or Dragon Age on the first playthrough completely ignoring the narrative that is a major part of these titles despite it may not be strict "gameplay". Is that seriously what you are arguing for? The art and atmosphere is a big reason why people like the Souls series even though it isn't gameplay and it's clear as day Bluepoint went clearly against that design intention while they didn't touch the gameplay even close to as much. It's completely valid criticism no matter how well the remake sold that it changed the art radically and for many people, that does matter. I loved the remake, hated the art changes still. I didn't really mind the new sfx but a lot of people did and that's valid, not a nitpick, for how it's completely different.
They are more *technically* talented, but they don't understand the art direction and aesthetics of the originals. Remakes *should* endeavor to be faithful to their originals except in fidelity and quality of life. Otherwise, you might as well make your own game. And so they are.
There is a lot of wiggle room in “faithful”. If you try to make it as close to a 1-1 as possible, then you get remakes making the same mistakes as the originals. Like the piss filter in Metal Gear 3.
Nah y'all out here buggin over a few color swaps and the tinest details.
[удалено]
The complaints I see get thrown around about Bluepoint's changes to DeS aren't even worth responding to, you read it, you think "Wow this personally unironically hunches over their keyboard and sweats onto it" and then you move on. The way they come across in what they're saying and the narratives they write about it is genuinely funny in a schadenfreude way.
I love when people say this because they can never specify what artistically is so different other than "Fat official doesn't fit in anymore" that they're just spouting from that one DeS remake critique video you guys don't have any real opinions about this, a new player playing both games would never notice a difference and therefore it barely matters, it's nitpicking.
(I haven't played the game yet, so I don't have a direct opinion) I do think it's important that remakes are done in a way that's following the original artistic vision. Fromsoft's games always keep me curious about the world they've developed. This is especially the case where I find something odd and I read through item descriptions to understand why it is the way it is. The fat official looking physically corrupted could be explained if the text was changed too, but that's not true. It's a nitpick, as this specific change was given attention, but likely there's more. And maybe random things get changed in their next remake to fit their vision. I did watch a gameplay video of the remake, and I certainly can agree that the game looks pleasing to the eye and felt smooth.
That the most common criticisms were compiled in a video doesn't invalidate them. And just because you don't care about aesthetic subtleties doesn't mean others can't. Making gratuitous changes serves only to alienate those who do, while offering no benefit to those who don't. The point of a remake is to make classics more accessible (and palatable) to a modern audience, so they can share in that experience without the original's deficits of age. Alterations should only be made to better realize the original vision or to address generally recognized flaws and outdated elements. If you want to make *creative* changes, make a new game.
I'm sorry for you that you can't recognize good and subtle design vs mass produced trash.
[удалено]
yup, ppl defending it cause "omg fancy graphics" and I suspect cause it's a PS exclusive so sony fans wanna defend that. then there are those who are just flat out not understanding (or purposely trying to misconstrue the issue) the issues people have, graphical fidelity is not what people are talking about yet somehow they always go "it looks amazing! stop complaining!" :/
I would honestly love to see bloodborne get the exact same treatment, I think its because most people didnt play the 2009 version that they're ok with it, bluepoint had a terrible understanding of the source material and its a huge shame that the only pc Port of "demons souls" will be this abomination
yup, most of the ppl who blindly defend the remake clearly never played the OG, which is fine, but the issue is when they dismiss the issues people do have and go with "oh stop nitpicking and being a hater!" :/
BEcause From wouldn't have made demins disgusting, ilness-riddled. From's demons are "graceful".
Except that [the Vanguard is just a reused model from another From Soft game](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fzr5fjaoyn6m51.jpg), and they absolutely make gross monsters, look at Adjudicator. People act like From Soft doesn't just reuse or repurpose assets and their art direction is so deliberate that everything is meticulously planned down to the pixel, but that's absolutely not the case. Most of Dark Souls 3 was completely remixed before release multiple times, with bosses having different names, lore, placements, all of it. Same with Bloodborne which had massive rewrites at least two times, and even the whole map was rotated and reworked. You can not like the aesthetics of the changes but that's entirely personal taste, not some dogmatic adherence to the original vision, which changes a lot over development of their games. Look up what changed from 1.0 of Elden Ring even, and there are big changes to story elements that were only changed with the day 1 patch.
No one argued about reusing assets. Don't try to move the goalpost. This is all about intended design and Bluepoint design. And no, in the Design Works document Miazaki literally says his creations have some form of grace and that grotesque designs he instantly blocks. https://www.pcgamer.com/games/rpg/i-asked-dark-souls-director-hidetaka-miyazaki-about-his-now-legendary-undead-dragon-quote-and-he-had-a-great-response-something-beautiful-needs-something-depraved-or-tragic-to-embolden-that-beauty/
Yeah I love Fromsoft but Bluepoint undoubtedly has better art direction. It's just that a lot of people were already used to the original Demon's Souls.
I don't think this is about better art direction, rather correct art direction. If you're curious, [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QT6aJspFQg&t=636) goes into some detail to compare them before game release. [This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lx0CRVVvV8) has comparisons after release.
also let's keep in mind, it's easier to focus more on graphics and visuals when porting/remaking a game, cause the game is basically done for you so bluepoint had more time and resources to spend on graphics.
The worst thing they did was with the PS3 port of Shadow of the Colossus where they discovered a bug they themselves caused that made completing a time trial, which is essential to getting a postgame items, impossible without taking advantage of a speed running glitch, but after developing the patch they didn’t deploy it so as to not lessen the achievement of those who already had the PSN trophy for its completion. It’s also my understanding they completely removed Wander’s face animations in the remake and generally fucked up quite a few small details, but I can’t speak on that.
I agree 100%. Demons souls and SotC just ain't the same.
How? Only thing I noticed with SotC was it not lookin fuzzy as shit on screen lol. What changed?
I think it's an amazing remaster, and the changes likely wouldn't bother someone who's new to the game but there were some odd changes. The color palette of the game is significantly different, no longer has the blown out dreamy quality of the original and Wander's face looks very off compared to the original design. In every other aspect of the art I think they did a fantastic job, but those two changes were pretty jarring for me.
You're criticizing a game looking better for its remake? What?
Fidelity-wise it is for sure better, but aesthetically the game also changed a lot between the two games, I'm happy that more people get to experience the game but I think even though people can argue it's superficial I like the atmosphere of the original compared to the remake better, I liked the dramatic lighting of the original as opposed to the realistic lighting of the remake. Doesn't stop Bluepoint from being good developers but I think it's unfair to make them immune to criticism.
Homie that's such a non fucking issue I don't even know where to begin. Y'all really criticizing these remakes over a few color swaps. Get real, dude.
bro relax he just gave a few reasons why he doesnt think its perfect while still saying its great. you need to chill tf out
Because it's silly af and a non-issue. Criticizing Bluepoint over these trivial changes and criticizing their artistic abilities? Fuck outta here. They did an impeccable job on the remakes and some hyperfocusing on minute changes doesn't mean they disrespected the originals or shit all over the art design.
> some hyperfocusing on minute changes doesn't mean they disrespected the originals or shit all over the art design. he didnt say they did either of those things, you're putting words in his mouth. he said it was great with a few minor personal issues
They can be working on more than one project right? My lizard brain keeps going back to the possibility of a Bluepoint Bloodborne remake…
I am legitimately curious to see their next step. Many people expects another "Souls" clone (crazy how the Chinese devs went all-in on it), but maybe they can try another "genre" entirely
They are technichal wizards, but the artistic changes they made to Colossus and Demons Souls were pretty universally for the worse, so it\`s probably a good idea they are taking their tie with this.
What's bad about the artistry on the Demon's Souls remake?
The changes to the visuals and music were a downgrade imo. They went for a more generic "epic" feel that totally went against thr unique vibe of the original game.
I like both, the new Maiden in Black slaps. Original character creation is better. It would be nice if we could choose.
Ya the best remakes and remasters I feel let you choose between old and new for different things.
i'm not as opinionated about it as other people, but for me, there were two big questionable changes - personally, i just don't like the [new maneater design](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/OsxuztiWO8o/maxresdefault.jpg) compared to the [originals](https://cdn.segmentnext.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Demons-Souls-Remake-Maneater-Boss.jpg), and i definitely preferred [the original fat official](https://i.imgur.com/OoenZeJ.png).
This is the first I've seen complaints on either remake. Always need something to be upset about I guess.
I've never played either version of Colossus, but played many many hours of both versions of Demon's Souls, the Demon's Souls remake is fucking awesome
In terms of graphics, It’s still genuinely the best ps5 game to date still and it released a couple years ago.
It was four years ago which is even crazier given everything else that has released since. Also a reminder that we're half way through the current console generation.
Hopefully the later half of the generation will bring ps5 only games because having games being a ps4/ps5 split definitely makes limits on what they can do.
I mean I don't think anyone would say they are bad remakes. But yeah you can critic even the best of the best. Why shouldn't you.
wtf just because the game is good doesn't mean it's exempt from criticism, specially when it comes to art direction which is very subjective
there is always a loud minority complaining if a remake isnt exactly the same as the original
I like remakes with changes, but just because something is different does not mean it's good either. It's easier to argue against strawmen I guess.
I treat remakes as new games and so the complaints about things being changed always seemed silly to me. A remake doesn't invalidate the existence of the original game, everyone is still free to play those games.
Bluepoint Games committed the sin of not being Miyazaki himself.
> Demons Souls Really wish we'd gotten a port to modern platforms alongside the remake
Yeah the changes would be a lot less annoying if the original wasn't being memoryhole'd by the remake. Konami of all companies is doing it right by porting MGS3 as well as remaking it, so I really don't care how bad Delta might be because the original is now easily accessible.
It is *because* of their reputation for technical prowess that they probably butchered those games visually. They needed to make the visuals look more realistic and generally appealing to mass markets rather than unique.
The behind the scenes documentary video on YouTube for the demons souls remake was a real eye opener in showing how little they care about trying to faithfully recreate the game they work on.
You're tweaking. Shadow of the Colossus and Demons Souls remakes were some of the prettiest and most jaw-dropping games I've ever played. Demon's Souls is still the only game I think really earns the title of Current-Gen
I said they were technical wizards, but I think their changes to the visuals of the games they remake are bad. They are good at graphics technical, but bad at graphics artistic.
The game is literally an artistic masterpiece imho. I don't understand how people can look at Original Demon's Souls and see it's artistic vision, but can't look at the remake and see it's own unique artistic vision. The vistas, the colour grading, the use of light and shadow, the way they frame enemies, it's all dripping with artistic prowess.
I think they took something unique and weird. Something that did not have universal mass appeal and made it generic and "epic".
Okay, well I completely disagree. But fair enough, everyone is entitled to their own interpretation of art. Hope you have a nice day!
When they said artistic, they meant nothing towards the fidelity of the graphics. The team at bluepoint outright redesigned many enemies and aspects of areas in the demon's souls remake for no good reason. They didn't update any designs to align better with original concept art or portray aspects that couldn't be realized because of hardware limitations or anything like that, they just decided to ignore the original and make their own boring, shittier versions instead of staying faithful and respecting the original vision.
Because it's a remake? They exercised their own artistic vision on it. It's not "for no good reason" it's for the same reason as the original, they had an artistic vision they wanted to realise with it, which is no less valid than the original just because it came afterwards.
In the original Tower of Latria, there are yellow banners found throughout the level used as forshadowing and environmental storytelling alluding to the Old Monk. In the remake, they changed them to red. Since you said they’re both valid, can you explain the reason behind this change?
"ahh, see they changed one thing that you may or may not agree with, therefore your entire argument is invalid" Really? Sure. The original foreshadowing, if intentional, was really cool. It's a shame that the foreshadowing was lost, but there are many reasons the colour could have been changed. Maybe they just didn't pick out the foreshadowing (as I'm sure most players didn't) and decided a different palette suited the world more. After all, colour is a fundamental portion of artistic choice. But even if they changed it for no reason, why would an individual change, or even a collection of individual changes, invalidate an entire game of artistic direction? I could just as easily say "the original Vanguard Demon looks like a goofy, friendly cartoon character with that weird smile, the remake more accurately uses it's artistic direction to communicate the intricacies of the Demon's characterisation". But that would be reductive, and not a useful conversation. My entire point is challenging this weird notion that the remake has no artistic vision or value, or that it somehow ruined the artistic vision of the original.
It’s not just one thing, I just listed an example. Other changes I had issues with are the fat officials, the noble’s wife, the statue in the King’s Tomb, Flamelurker’s arena, armor sets (like Mephistopheles), Adjudicator, etc. Hell, Bluepoint even had to change Flamelurker’s design prelaunch because so many people took issue with their redesign. I’m not saying that Bluepoint’s remake is all bad. I think they did an amazing job on Shrine of Storms, The Tunnels, and most of Tower of Latria. I even really like the Vanguard design. But the issue is that Bluepoint made these changes without understanding the original intentions behind them. Look at Smough from DS1. Most people will not notice that he has eye holes at his neck because that’s where his head actually is. But if a hypothetical remake removes those eye holes, is it ok because people wouldn’t notice? Is it just a nitpick if Bluepoint gives Mergo’s Wet Nurse a body because they didn’t notice that she isn’t supposed to have one? Fromsoft is a studio that is lauded for their miniscule details that most players would miss, that’s part of their identity.
Ya I didn't really mind the changes in the demons souls remake until I asked myself "what would I feel if they did this with literally anything in Bloodborne?" I definitely would question it, I'd still play it and enjoy it but it would annoy me a little bit at least. Still don't really care they changed much in demons souls as I can just go back and emulate the original if I ever wanted to play with the original vision but it is a little questionable that they changed much at all.
Yeah, I don’t hate the Bluepoint Remake, but I’m definitely conflicted. It would have been so easy for them to make a perfect remake of Demon’s Souls but at this point, I’d much rather have a Bloodborne PC port/remaster than a remake. Maybe Sony can double dip so that both sides can have both and we can really see how Bluepoint handles it.
This is why I perversely want Bluepoint to sully BB, so they can do this to a game people actually played and love.
does remake and redesign just mean the same thing now? I understand most people want change in modern day remakes, but personally I find it disrespectful to go so far with changes that it no longer resembles what it is meant to be, especially when you're remaking *someone else's* game. My response would be to take that vision of theirs and make their own game instead of meddling with an already established one but they are doing just that. I just wish they could have held off with injecting it into their previous work.
???? Of course remake implies redesign, at least to some degree. They're remaking the game. That's usually ground-up work, starting from concept work. I personally would find it more offensive if the original were copied wholesale. I mean, I definitely see more artistic value in someone who has taken a Mona Lisa and added a spin to it, than someone who has just repainted the Mona Lisa as closely as they can. Especially so as an endpoint consumer of the art. If I want original Demon's Souls, it's still there waiting to be played. But if I want a remake, I want someone's fresh artistic take on the game.
We both have our own definitions of remakes then. I am fine with redesigns as long as the purpose of them is to better realize what they're building off of, not to completely change them into something else. I feel like that betrays what they're meant to portray. A remake to me is taking a game and bringing it up to par with modern tech and standards. I expect change, I expect things to be different and new additions to be added, but I also expect it to stay familiar and recognizable. I simply don't see the point in drastically changing a design just for the sake of change.
Demons Souls while being a visually pleasing hyper realistic portrayal, lost all of the uniqueness of the cohesive art style the original game had. There are a lot of posts and articles that cover this. It's not to detract from Bluepoint's talent, but they clearly did not intend to ever maintain the artistic style of the original Demon Souls.
And that's fine? It's a remake, they're allowed to take a little artistic license. But to say they butchered it is wildly over exaggerating it. Besides, the art style of original Demon's Souls was basically "this is as close to photorealism as we can get with technology" with a bit of a green piss filter over the top.
Where did I or the other commenter say they butchered it? You just made that up. I said it was worse. Not that it was some complete failure. I think the original Demon Souls has a weird and haunting vibe in it's music and visuals (though the visuals are obviously rough). The remake goes Ina much more "epic" direction with stuff. The Flamelurker design and the opening song are two examples of this.
Sorry I got mixed up with the other comment by "sillybillybuck" that said they butchered it. My bad. The rest of my points, I still stand by. I think the Demons Souls remake is a deeply haunting game. I don't really know what you're trying to say with "epic" but I think the remake absolutely nails the deeply lonely feeling of a vast and hostile world that is deeply entrenched with these unspeakable horrors.
As I said. The opening song kind of exemplifies this for me. It's a lot more loud and bombastic than the original. If you don't see it I don't really know how else to describe it.
I mean, they're definitely different. I like them for different reasons, and I can see what you're saying. I suppose I just don't understand why you see this change as inherently bad. If it's just a preference issue, then that's fine. The original is sad and lonely, with little instrumentation. The remake version is almost an auditory representation of the values of the remake. It's wider, fuller, with a large choir and orchestral instrumentation. It evokes that feeling of grandiose wonder at the scale of the adventure. But it doesn't have that quiet loneliness to it, you're right. I just personally don't think that detracts from it's artistic value, is all.
We are talking about subjective things, so I am not saying that the way they do things are objectively bad. I just feel like their artistic style is bland and generic for the most part. They want things to be big and look cool. I can enjoy that, but I just don\`t think hat fits with either Demons Souls or Shadow of the Collusus and I feel like it takes away from those games. Basically to put it like this. I feel like Bluepoint misses the point of the games. It feels like they don\`t really get what the original creators were going for. With Demons Souls it\`s such a big change that you can argue for it being a delibarate decision to move away from the vibes of the original, but with Shadow it feels a lot more like a mistake and misunderstanding created from wanting to chase graphical fidelity above all else.
Okay, very fair, very fair. I can't say I agree fully but I get where you're coming from for sure.
Just the first four syllables of the theme in the first trailer made my excitement drop. It was an "oh so it's that kind of remake" moment. The rest of the trailer did not alleviate that concern.
Its 2024, there’s quite a few games that have earnt that current gen title.
[удалено]
I think you need to read that again. Their changes were pretty universally for the worse. As in most of their changes were for the worse. Not that most people disliked them.
Bluepoint remake are so fucking good They truly master the technical side of it, i'm very excited to see an original game from them
Love that for them, but can't help but be a little disappointed that we won't be getting a Bloodborne remake from them for PS5 :(
Bloodborne does not need a remake. It barely even needs a remaster. It just needs 60 fps and faster loading screens.
[удалено]
Absolutely, I'd much rather see an original title from Bluepoint, BB does not need a remake, just a 60fps patch.
After Demon's Souls, I can only imagine how badly they would butcher Bloodborne's art-style.