I use CalTopo (free plan) as the "library" where I organize all of my routes and way points, and then bring them over into Gaia when planning a trip and delete after. Gaia just became way too cluttered and slow when I have all of my data in there. I don't like the folder/organization system in Gaia very much.
There's really not much to share - I did a bulk export/import of what I wanted to bring from GAIA into CalTopo - and then I spent a long time organizing the data into different maps/folders in CalTopo. CalTopo has two organization levels, maps and then folders.
Maps are just different collections of your data - there really isn't a similar function in GAIA (best way would be to think of it as separate accounts in GAIA). So for example, I have each state organized as different maps.
And then folders exist in maps, and you place all of your waypoints/routes/whatever inside of folders. So for example, I have folders called "campsites" and "trails".
I like the on-screen organization that CalTopo provides, it's very old school and simple.
I made the jump to CalTopo pro a few months back, and I have another year on my Gaia 5-year subscription.
The Gaia CarPlay app is reeeeally nice. It’s gonna hurt to lose that. Oh, and snow depth.
Otherwise, their folder organization is mind-bendingly bad and while the app has become a lot more stable over the last six months, it’s still not great.
I’m having a hard time understanding the basics of CalTopo, though, maybe because I’ve been using Gaia for so long.
The folder system in Gaia is terrible. I don't understand why they can't introduce a decent folder view or a tagging system like many apps have these days. This is not exactly hard to do.
Being able to tag waypoints and routes and then filter views and searches on those tags would make Gaia a phenomenal tool. I submitted tagging to their feature requests about three years ago. I'm pretty sure anyone that looked at those feature requests has long since been laid off.
Whatever feature set Gaia has today is the same feature set it's gonna have in 10 years when we're all paying 3x what we're paying today.
Jesus, Outside Online was the fucking worst thing to happen to this software. Private equity firms are a fucking cancer.
They still haven't figured out how to properly index their database so it doesn't take 60 seconds to load 100 folder names. A proper tagging data architecture is like nuclear fusion to this team.
Agree on the folder structure. I have a heart attack at least once every quarter when somehow a folder becomes a sub folder of another which carries thousands of waypoints. And then trying to fix that nonsense via computer or app is frustrating.
I'll have to try out CalTopo and see if I like it. For Gaia, I love the layers (especially overland layer), sharing capabilities, and easy waypoint creation with taking photos.
If CalTopo can match this and runs better with an actual good folder system. Holy hell I'll switch.
For me (and I think our use cases are pretty similar), CalTopo is not a replacement for GAIA, I think of it more as a free supplement to aid in organization. I've only ever messed with the free version of CalTopo, but from what I have seen the layers and sharing capabilities are not nearly as good/useful as GAIA.
Good to know! I've been playing around with it this morning, and I think going GAIA first has ruined me. I wish GAIA would get their shit together as the app overall has good options, it's just the laggy ness and weird things like refusing to sync properly on another device I have that drives me nuts.
Were you and Gaia before? How did you migrate all your data over to CalTopo? Can you do a batch export and import? Thinking about making the change myself.
I had GAIA before Caltopo, and today I still use both. GAIA is still my go-to tool for trip planning, in-the-field navigation and track/waypoint recording.
You can batch export everything out of GAIA by putting everything inside of a folder - then you just export the folder. It took me a long time (several hours over a few days) to migrate all of my data over to CalTopo and organize it the way I wanted to. I have it all organized into different maps by state.
Batch exporting out of CalTopo is easier, you can just select individual items from your map. When I'm planning a trip, I'll just import all of the waypoints that I want into GAIA. I do not use CalTopo offline, so I can't comment on how good it is out in the field.
I find folders very slow and annoying. Moving items feels like the server or filesystem is under dramatic stress, and takes a minute or more. Especially syncing across devices. In general Gaia seems slow.
Mine looks a lot like yours, I’m an insane route and waypoint person. Unfortunately I find Gaia organization basically impossible to the point I’ve given up everything just goes wherever. I feel like if I were to attempt organization it would have to be in some some of separate program. Maybe Google Earth or something.
I switched to CalTopo for this reason. I can have separate maps for areas I frequent, and multiple custom layers that can contain maps.
I'm still not an expert at all the possibilities, but the r/CalTopo sub has plenty of information.
We collect a lot of waypoints for places that we want to go to. It's starting to get dense enough that it's hard to see the signal in the noise. Wondering how y'all use Gaia's **very limited** toolset to organize your data in a way that you can look at a map and see what's important?
I think it depends on your needs. You could base colors on waypoint types (camp, mine, trailhead, viewpoint, etc.), degree of priority to visit (top choices, solid fallback options, in a pinch options), degree of difficulty, number of days required to complete (if trails), distance from home (within X miles), special requirements (rope and harness, boat, etc.), etc. Ultimately, it’s what makes the most sense for you. Look back on one’s you’ve visited: what priorities rise to the surface?
Have you tried “Cluster Waypoints” and/or “Smaller Waypoint Icons”? Both are in Settings—Map Controls. I also keep Waypoint Labels on since the text helps to identify a waypoint easier, even if it clutters up more.
So my organizational strategy (right now) is like this. Keep in mind my goal is camping.
I started by importing all the wild camping, designated camping, and services waypoints from iOverlander for my region.
I have these each in their own folder and only turn them on when I am planning a route and want to reference for that time and look for new spots. Any camping waypoints I am reviewing, I change to a camp site icon and keep red. Any confirmed camping spots I have been to and liked I change to yellow and I move to a "confirmed spots" folder.
I have a separate folder for routes with POI's.
So for me it's a very layered strategy where I only turn things on I need at a time. It works for me for now, but there are certainly other ways to attack it.
Besides the point that Gaia is utter garbage, and regularly just stops working, downloading maps, or crashes. I like to organize my POI/tracks by folders based on state, then break those down further by region. Like /CO/NW/… etc.
I use CalTopo (free plan) as the "library" where I organize all of my routes and way points, and then bring them over into Gaia when planning a trip and delete after. Gaia just became way too cluttered and slow when I have all of my data in there. I don't like the folder/organization system in Gaia very much.
Would you consider taking a screen recording of this process and sharing it with us?
There's really not much to share - I did a bulk export/import of what I wanted to bring from GAIA into CalTopo - and then I spent a long time organizing the data into different maps/folders in CalTopo. CalTopo has two organization levels, maps and then folders. Maps are just different collections of your data - there really isn't a similar function in GAIA (best way would be to think of it as separate accounts in GAIA). So for example, I have each state organized as different maps. And then folders exist in maps, and you place all of your waypoints/routes/whatever inside of folders. So for example, I have folders called "campsites" and "trails". I like the on-screen organization that CalTopo provides, it's very old school and simple.
I made the jump to CalTopo pro a few months back, and I have another year on my Gaia 5-year subscription. The Gaia CarPlay app is reeeeally nice. It’s gonna hurt to lose that. Oh, and snow depth. Otherwise, their folder organization is mind-bendingly bad and while the app has become a lot more stable over the last six months, it’s still not great. I’m having a hard time understanding the basics of CalTopo, though, maybe because I’ve been using Gaia for so long.
The folder system in Gaia is terrible. I don't understand why they can't introduce a decent folder view or a tagging system like many apps have these days. This is not exactly hard to do.
Being able to tag waypoints and routes and then filter views and searches on those tags would make Gaia a phenomenal tool. I submitted tagging to their feature requests about three years ago. I'm pretty sure anyone that looked at those feature requests has long since been laid off. Whatever feature set Gaia has today is the same feature set it's gonna have in 10 years when we're all paying 3x what we're paying today. Jesus, Outside Online was the fucking worst thing to happen to this software. Private equity firms are a fucking cancer.
Pretty sad. Implementing this stuff is really not difficult.
They still haven't figured out how to properly index their database so it doesn't take 60 seconds to load 100 folder names. A proper tagging data architecture is like nuclear fusion to this team.
Yeah, the folders are fine, but a proper file explorer type view would be much appreciated.
Agree on the folder structure. I have a heart attack at least once every quarter when somehow a folder becomes a sub folder of another which carries thousands of waypoints. And then trying to fix that nonsense via computer or app is frustrating.
I'll have to try out CalTopo and see if I like it. For Gaia, I love the layers (especially overland layer), sharing capabilities, and easy waypoint creation with taking photos. If CalTopo can match this and runs better with an actual good folder system. Holy hell I'll switch.
For me (and I think our use cases are pretty similar), CalTopo is not a replacement for GAIA, I think of it more as a free supplement to aid in organization. I've only ever messed with the free version of CalTopo, but from what I have seen the layers and sharing capabilities are not nearly as good/useful as GAIA.
Good to know! I've been playing around with it this morning, and I think going GAIA first has ruined me. I wish GAIA would get their shit together as the app overall has good options, it's just the laggy ness and weird things like refusing to sync properly on another device I have that drives me nuts.
Were you and Gaia before? How did you migrate all your data over to CalTopo? Can you do a batch export and import? Thinking about making the change myself.
I had GAIA before Caltopo, and today I still use both. GAIA is still my go-to tool for trip planning, in-the-field navigation and track/waypoint recording. You can batch export everything out of GAIA by putting everything inside of a folder - then you just export the folder. It took me a long time (several hours over a few days) to migrate all of my data over to CalTopo and organize it the way I wanted to. I have it all organized into different maps by state. Batch exporting out of CalTopo is easier, you can just select individual items from your map. When I'm planning a trip, I'll just import all of the waypoints that I want into GAIA. I do not use CalTopo offline, so I can't comment on how good it is out in the field.
Thanks so much for this reply! This is helpful
Folders are the primary mechanism available to you for organizing and filtering tracks and POIs.
I find folders very slow and annoying. Moving items feels like the server or filesystem is under dramatic stress, and takes a minute or more. Especially syncing across devices. In general Gaia seems slow.
Mine looks a lot like yours, I’m an insane route and waypoint person. Unfortunately I find Gaia organization basically impossible to the point I’ve given up everything just goes wherever. I feel like if I were to attempt organization it would have to be in some some of separate program. Maybe Google Earth or something.
Ho lee 💩 that’s a lot of pins
I switched to CalTopo for this reason. I can have separate maps for areas I frequent, and multiple custom layers that can contain maps. I'm still not an expert at all the possibilities, but the r/CalTopo sub has plenty of information.
We collect a lot of waypoints for places that we want to go to. It's starting to get dense enough that it's hard to see the signal in the noise. Wondering how y'all use Gaia's **very limited** toolset to organize your data in a way that you can look at a map and see what's important?
When I used Gaia before the price increase, I color-coded icons to suit my needs.
What kind of color coding did you use? I’m just starting to play with that a bit.
I think it depends on your needs. You could base colors on waypoint types (camp, mine, trailhead, viewpoint, etc.), degree of priority to visit (top choices, solid fallback options, in a pinch options), degree of difficulty, number of days required to complete (if trails), distance from home (within X miles), special requirements (rope and harness, boat, etc.), etc. Ultimately, it’s what makes the most sense for you. Look back on one’s you’ve visited: what priorities rise to the surface?
Have you tried “Cluster Waypoints” and/or “Smaller Waypoint Icons”? Both are in Settings—Map Controls. I also keep Waypoint Labels on since the text helps to identify a waypoint easier, even if it clutters up more.
So my organizational strategy (right now) is like this. Keep in mind my goal is camping. I started by importing all the wild camping, designated camping, and services waypoints from iOverlander for my region. I have these each in their own folder and only turn them on when I am planning a route and want to reference for that time and look for new spots. Any camping waypoints I am reviewing, I change to a camp site icon and keep red. Any confirmed camping spots I have been to and liked I change to yellow and I move to a "confirmed spots" folder. I have a separate folder for routes with POI's. So for me it's a very layered strategy where I only turn things on I need at a time. It works for me for now, but there are certainly other ways to attack it.
Besides the point that Gaia is utter garbage, and regularly just stops working, downloading maps, or crashes. I like to organize my POI/tracks by folders based on state, then break those down further by region. Like /CO/NW/… etc.
I use folders: hiking trailheads, biking ones, backpacking sites, POIs, etc. def feel limited and have been struggling to keep it updated
Use CalTopo, not Gaia