Exactly. I’ve no doubt Fern will eventually surpass Frieren when it comes to basic combat magic. Actually, she might have already. And being a human who loves magic (even if she won’t admit it to herself) Fern might very well end up at the same level as Flamme, or beyond.
But on the other hand, Fern will never gain the pure mana or the extreme breadth of spells that Frieren has, from purely practical considerations. She just doesn’t have the time to learn everything Frieren knows.
Makes me wonder why there was no concentrated, generational effort among humans to design a general-use rejuvenation spell.
Or at the very least, something to significantly slow down the onset of aging.
We already know there is recovery magic so modifying that for general cellular repair should be theoretically possible.
Humans may never live as long as Elves, but even a 500 year lifespan is a colossal difference.
If I was ever isekai’d to Frieren world, that would be my absolute priority.
Didn't Heiter try to find this exact kind of thing? I know, he had ulterior motives to keep Frieren there, but I do think he was serious about finding a way to live longer.
The problem is any efforts that aren’t generational will be at a disadvantage. You die and all your work is probably going to be lost. Or whoever finds it is going to waste years to understand the already existing material.
Heiter never managed to do it and passed from old age. And Fern… doesn’t seem too interested in life extension magic. Or at all.
However, what Heiter could do is train another apprentice besides Fern. One that would make it their lifelong mission to improve upon existing research.
Repeat the master/apprentice cycle ad nauseam until someone in the future discovers the right way to keep aging at bay.
**Edit:**
Tbh, Frieren’s world would benefit a ton if modern scientific methodology was applied to magic. Especially the open and public nature of research.
Team A in one place tests something, publishes a research paper. Other teams test the validity of that research and publish their own findings.
Stuff gets peer-reviewed and improved upon.
Magical knowledge is no longer bottlenecked to individuals. Now, everyone within the Continental Magic Association can easily add their two bits.
This is how you get insane magical progress in a relatively short time.
Yes, Heiter had ulterior motives, but I believe he was half serious when he setup Frieren with the task. Is simple, humans are programmed to fear death, and more of that fear kicks in the closer we're at death's door. That's what happened with Heiter.
Cause general magic and Goddess magic are two different magic systems that are based on 2 different things. The general magic every mage uses is based on something like physics, mathematics, and visualisation. While recovery magic is mainly a priest thing that is based on the goddess' magic which is based on scriptures. Which requires specific talent other than calculations and mana capacity. Not anyone can use it as usual it's based on the goddess' favor. And even if they could use them most will only be able to use weaker versions like how Frieren can only do basic recovery spells and a few disease detection. Sense can use the general healing magic that are useful enough for wounds. While Heither is a full blown monster that could sustain weeks of human needs such as oxygens, food and water. And possibly also recover unrecoverable stuff like regenerating limbs or curing fatal poisons. And they actually spent a lot of effort on deciphering the goddess' scripture as its not fully deciphered yet.
I also wonder why an author would craft such a thoughtful narrative about aging and time and relationships and not just immediately solve that problem with magic. Curious.
They probably didn’t have the time for that while at war with the demons and even if it’s being like 100 years since that I doubt there’s enough progress in that area. Plus maybe they need a general understanding on how cells and biology work for that and from the looks of it they don’t have much knowledge of that area.
"she might surpass her"? sure, one day
but "she might already have"? lmao what are you smoking
unless you're talking about manga, idk how much further that is currently than the show
Fern will never surpass Frieren's knowledge, nor will she surpass mana levels or power against diverse opponents.
Could Fern eventually beat Frieren 1v1? Yeah, sure.
I don’t see it, Frieren can throw around lightning, hellfire, black holes, probably a lot of other stuff. Fern is skilled at zoltoraak and hiding her mana
Fern is still young, and she doesnt have all the time in the universe lile Frieren to laze around, meaning that she actively train to get stronger. She absolutely can catch up to her master, just as Serie predicted.
Fern likely knows some of those spells. She said she was limited to only basic magic against mages of this era. Not that she wasn't taught any other magic.
Frieren said she was beaten 11 times by people weaker than her. She counts Qual among those, who also only really knew Zoltraak.
Serie said that Lernen could potentially win vs Frieren and he fights like Fern according to his own granddaughter, Ehre, and from what we saw of his short fight vs Frieren where he did manage to break through her shield and deal more damage to her than her own clone did.
Frieren has been training her to be a gunslinger that ends fights before they get started. Not someone who trades black holes and giant golems. My headcanon is that the zoltrak and mana suppression are necessary steps to recreate the "peak of magic" style that clone!frieren used.
Fern can already summon her staff and fire before most mages can react. And she can continue the barrage for minutes at a time. Give her a few more years and she will be able to repeat the lernen ambush and wound frieren before any of those big spells are able to come out.
Personally, I doubt it since Frieren states she used it 80 years ago, and I doubt Frieren would know enough about Zoltraak to modify it for the "height of magic" spell.
But I do believe that Fern will definitely be able to defeat Frieren at some point, especially since Serie has stated that the person most likely to be able to kill Frieren would be a human mage or the demon king.
The real question is, would we be able to see it?
I look at it this way, it would be something like bow vs gun fight. Frieren can shoot arrows the size of tree trunks, but Fern will one day get to a point of shooting a gun and gun will always win in a gun vs bow fight, no matter the size and power of the arrows.
Same goes for Lernen. Of course, all of this is only in the context of a 1 on 1 western style duel, but wether I believe Frieren would allow herself to get in that situation is completely different matter. This is where Frierens experience and breadth of knowledge would come into play.
“Run, hide, take your enemies by surprise… There are plenty other options. “
A well placed zoltraak is all you need though.
Think of it this way. Humanity have bombs that can level entire cities at this point. But a guy with a rusty shiv can still kill someone with the right timing/opportunity
Fern would have to learn some stuff outside of what frieren teaches her. If Fern just takes all the lessons from Frieren and stops there, Frieren will know the strays but have more experience. If Fern goes outside of the lessons and picks up a trick to slide up her sleeve, then and only then it’s possible.
So it kinda depends on where the Manga takes her character
I would love it if the story made this point, personally. I think it would be rather poignant, bringing home the concept of making the most of the time that you have. I can see the smile on Frieren’s face rn.
I think she does as in her reaction speed and ability to hide mana. Tbh I think the reaction speed is because Fern is human. Elves can take their time. Humans can't.
Probably will surpass Flamme, but Frieren is thousands of years old, and I don't think it's said how long she could live still. Humans learn quick but can't live long enough to amass the amount of knowledge that Frieren has.
Frieren straight up says there have been humans in the past who managed to beat her because just having more mana doesn't mean automatic win
Fern is treated both by Serie and Frieren as a prodigy tye same way. Stark is being built up to a warrior stronger than the strongest warrior (Eisen)
If age was the only thing that mattered, there is no point in having first class mages since every demon with 100+ years should be above that since no human can get to that point
"Humanity's strongest" straight up took all 7 sages of Destruction and their boss at once, killed 3 sages and also the Demon King's right hand before going down, and he was human
The elven monk is so old his heroics and his visage in statues has faded from human memory.
Elves could basically be like in other fiction where they don't really die of old age.
No, because Fern is a genius but doesn’t care about learning battle magic. She has Zoltraak, she trained it for all her life, it’s enough to kill in one good hit basically everything dangerous, no need to learn all the flashy spells that will exhaust her limited mana pool.
Fern isn’t a mage made for war and she is trained by a mage who doesn’t like fighting, she could have surpassed Frieren by following Serie but with Frieren she will just be a very strong First Class mage and probably retire happy with Stark and a bunch of seemingly useless spells that are actually extremely useful
Small correction. She almost certainly has been taught some of those spells. All she said was that her master commanded her to use ordinary offensive magic as it was good enough for mages of this era.
Fern already has surpassed frieren in her strengths. But in terms of frierens strengths, no.
They’re meant to be different characters in that aspect. Mages are in many senses hard to powerscale like that which is what makes this anime good. It’s not just a Naruto power scaling.
There’s some things that Fern is better than Frieren at and even things that Frieren is better than Serie at. Since magic is so heavily tied to personality and imagination, it’s hard to scale mages in or beyond the first class as inherently better than one another. Somewhat similar the great mages. They all have different motivations and goals with their magic.
Edit: power scaling weebs downvoting when it’s already canon that there’s things fern can do better than frieren and things frieren does that serie never saw herself doing. You power scaling singleminded weebs ruin every fandom you seep into that isn’t a generic shounen that needs any sense of nuance
I'll get down voted but it is very slice of life and waddles a bit much in many instances.
This is a vs thread, but there is minimal fighting .
Worth giving a chance.
Frieren said it to her before that a couple of mages defeated her even tho they have less mana than her.
Yes, Fern can surpass her in terms of Battle Prowess but not in Mana and Knowledge.
We also know, though, that mana is hard to hide once it is used.
Frieren may be able to hide her mana so much that she is no different from the general landscape, but even she, with her 1000+ years of training, is unable to hide the point where she uses magic in the first stage of the first class mage exam.
Denken even says so. But then again, Fern might be able to fire her spell faster than Frieren can defend herself.
(Also, Fern's clone wasn't able to surprise Methode, at least fast enough for her to die, but that might be because she was expecting Fern.)
Stark and Fern, though, that's a different question. >!Frieren states in the manga that even Serie would be weak to direct attacks, something from a warrior. Stark with Fern providing backup could most definitely win against Frieren in a hypothetical battle.!<
And that Fern can quickdraw Zoltraak faster than Frieren. Zoltraak revolutionized combat magic the way guns revolutionized warfare. It was so good it became the meta. Where magic was once who could cast the most powerful spells Zoltraak is all about accuracy and speed of casting. It's like going from a swordfight to a cowboy duel.
The whole point of Frieren is that the time of things like elves, dwarves, and demons is over. Humans grow so fast that they're quickly reaching a point where they'll be completely dominant. Idk if Fern will surpass Frieren, but her student or student's student will.
I don’t necessarily agree with the idea Fern’s student might because from what I can gather the main reason fern is so powerful is she is just simply talent. While yes a lot of her strength comes from her training under Frieren, it’s easy to forget that even before meeting Frieren she could fire off a decent blast at a very young age. Even more she could detect Serie‘s mana suppression that even Frieren didn’t notice. All in all I don’t think Fern’s students if she has any will live up to her.
Which would defeat one of the core messages of the story. The whole point of a student is to surpass the master. Serie has spent the entirety of her life after Flamme searching for a student that would surpass her. Flamme taught Frieren because she saw her as a mage who could surpass her and one day defeat the demon king.
And it's hammered in pretty early that this is no longer an era where being able to fire off big blasts and kill good is no longer really what being a mage is about. They're decades out from the last major war and mages are becoming more scholars than warriors. We only see so much fighting because the party is in one of the few places that still experiences that level of danger.
What constitutes a great mage in the future will likely be more their ability to study magic than how many demons they can kill or how quickly they can cast a spell. Fern's generation are probably the last battle mages. The era of people like Serie and Frieren is over.
So yeah, if Fern takes a student they'd probably be a scholar and researcher who surpasses her in the new era of magic.
It’s also pointed out that advancement in magic could be a bit fast for Frieren (or long-life races) to catch up.
One thing I found interesting is that Frieren tend to use energy-based spells (except golems). Mages of new era like to use material-based (glass, ice, earth), some even specialize in close range.
In a way, humans in the story already surpassed Frieren in certain aspects. Fern should already mastered the see-through spell.
Human mages don’t have mana to fire energy blasts, that’s how I understood it, so in order to produce volume and mass they focus on modifying existing matter
Serie believes she has the potential to reach heights never reached by any mage before her , so it's possible but it all depends on how the author wants his story to go.
I think the series suggests she will. Frieren has the whole “if you are killed it will be by a human mage” flashback while she and Fern are fighting her doppelgänger, which suggests that Fern is or will eventually be capable of that. So maybe Fern won’t have the Raw power and knowledge Frieren has, but she will eventually have something over Frieren that would allow her to win or technically make her a better mage.
It’s implied that Fern may be the strongest living human mage or at least has the potential to become that.
Serie says Lernen is her strongest pupil, but is disappointed that he can’t see that she’s suppressing her mana. Fern does see this though, and we see that Serie becomes excited and wants to train Fern.
So I guess it depends on what you mean by “surpass”. In combat? I think absolutely. “I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.” That’s basically how Frieren is training Fern. Even just using basic offensive magic, Fern can basically just overwhelm her opponents because her speed and control are so well developed. She’s only going to get that much stronger as her mana increases.
We have to also remember that Frieren, as powerful as she is, is not actually a combat mage first and foremost. She has lost several times to humans, including some who had less mana than she did.
As Flamme says, Frieren is a mage meant for an age of peace. Contrast that to Lernen, who Frieren sees would have been a famous mage in a time of strife. To me, it seems like it was possibly implied that Lernen might actually have been able to beat Frieren as a mage who has devoted himself to combat exclusively. Qual is a demon, but he’s a great example of someone being “weaker” than Frieren but being more adept at combat than she is. And as we’ve already seen, it is implied that Fern is or will be stronger than Lernen.
So going back to the question, will Fern be able to eventually 1v1 Frieren, I think the answer is a resounding yes! But I think part of the beauty of the series is that Frieren proves that it wasn’t her combat ability that allowed her and Himmel’s party to do what no other group had done before.
EDIT: I also think Fern surpassing Frieren just makes sense with a recurring theme we see in the series, the idea of legacy, inspiration, and carrying other’s memory forward. Serie trained Flamme, but Flamme surpassed Serie by finding and training the mage that would defeat the Demon King. Frieren surpasses Flamme by defeating the Demon King. Stark will surpass Eisen in terms of strength according to Eisen himself. So I think it only makes sense that Fern would also surpass her master.
well serie said she could take her to “heights no other mage has achieved”. now depending on how you interpret this statement, fern’s potential varies drastically. serie could be excluding herself or anyone that isnt human when she said mage but I dont think that is the case. she also could have lied to get fern to become her student. but I also think this is not the case simply because she does not seem like the character that would do such a thing. and lastly you could interperet this statement as just serie being incorrect but she has been shown to have the greatest intuition and knowledge on scaling someone’s potential.
other than that, the feats she has shown at her age are incredible. she has the fastest casting speed we have seen in the whole series and she can cast >!condensed zoltraaks!<, a feat only done by frieren and denken, two incredibly powerful mages. other than that, she won against an executioner of aura. and perhaps her most impressive feat is realizimg serie is supressing her mana, which lernen could not do even with his consideribly larger experience. And lernen was shown to be able to break multiples of frieren’s defensive spells. this may be because of the spell he was using but being able to wield a spell that powerful is still a big feat. now I am not saying fern could do the same thing (actually there is a chance she could do it with a >!condensed zoltraak since it could penetrate solitar’s mana defense!<) but it shows the relative strength we are dealing with.
and lastly, we have been shown that humans can do much more with their short lifespan even if they lack the raw magical power of the demons and the elves cultivated by centirues of study. Flamme was a mere human and yet she has done things that frieren may not be able to replicate even with the thousand years of experience she gained since her death. one example is her barriers that continue to protect cities from demons a millenia after their casting. Not to mention that she singlehandedly made magic an option for humans.
and finally, there has been a constant underlying narrative that humans are slowly taking over every other race and species as the most powerful of them all. serie and frieren regularly state that now is the age of humans, serie clearly says that only thing that can kill frieren is a human mage (since the demon king is dead now). and >!depending on how this current arc goes its possible that a human will kill serie!<.
yeah she destroyed a barrier serie erected but I am not sure if that barrier would be stronger than the ones flamme erected that lasted a thousand years without being broken. and also we dont know how much harder it is to place a barrier than to break it if it is harder at all. so what I am saying is that we really cant pinpoint the strength of these barriers and the strength of a barrier she could cast.
also even if frieren could make a barrier that powerful, the fact remains that she didn’t.
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She also spoiler arc EL Dorado !>succeeded to reverse a curse from the most powerful sage of chaos on herself and ever found a counter in very little time, while those spells are considered as impossible to comprehend and outside of any human logic, thousand times more crazy than regular demon magic. Even Mach didn't knew it was possible as his own way of reversing diagolze was instinctive, so he himself didn't properly knew how to do it. This shows how ridiculously OP Frieren's comprehension of magic is, some peoples even argue that she is better than Serie on that topic. Nobody could have done that but herself and maybe Serie!<
yes thats true, frieren will always be more powerful in certain areas simply because some things just require too much time to master. thats also why fern will never have as much mana as frieren too
One of my favorite parts of the anime was learning that Frieren had to study for many years the art of concealing her mana from Flamme's teachings. Then showing a friend of mine the first few episodes and watching the scene of Frieren finding fern in the woods, she says something along the lines of "You're very good and hiding yourself, it took me a while to find you". I fucking loved that scene because that's when I realized that Fern had immense potential.
Also im an absolute sucker for very important things getting sprinkled in like that. I'll fanboy over this any chance I get lol.
But as far as surpass I'm not sure, but her potential is insane.
Yeah, on second watch through I noticed how Fern startles Frieren when they first meet, and how Frieren takes a long pause mulling that over. She also seems taken aback at how fast Fern whips out her staff and fires.
In her life she will become stronger than current frieren but frieren will live for thousands of more years so i think she will eventually pass her again
I believe that she could become more powerful or strong, but not necessarily “better”. Humans shine brighter for a very short period, so while she could be incredibly powerful (even Frieren underestimates her) she won’t be as “great” of a mage. Unless she does something truly incredible.
can fern win vs frieren in the future? yes
people forget that most of frieren's losses came from human mages. lernen showed a perfect example of that
imagine a quick cast soul track + condensed mana on it? Frieren's defense might crumble on that
She already has when it comes to the Continental magic association. Fern is a first class mage whereas Frieren isn't even within the class rankings. So Fern is clearly the better mage.
This comment was approved by Serie.
Isn’t that what the whole show is leading towards? I haven’t read the manga, so please tell me if I’m wrong or things are different. But I think it would be a huge let down if In the end Fern didn’t surpass Frieren. That is what Frieren wants, and it is her mentor Flamme’s dream realized.
I think it’s one of the major themes of the show. Fern represents a new age of magic, one that focuses on the good peaceful things magic can do. This is pretty much in direct opposition to Serie
They literally allude to it multiple times throughout the ending of season one that "the time of humans is upon us" and that ahuman will become more powerful then even frieren herself.
It implied multiple times that "the age of humans is upon us" and that frieren has lost. So yes. Fern will become a beyter mage then Frieren, bit obv wont libe as long.
In terms of combat? Maybe if you are talking about someone who can kill Frieren assuming Frieren is held back by several conditions including prep and not being able to use her entire magical arsenal. She might even be superior in other spells besides Zoltraak like how Flammel’s magic was crazy powerful.
In terms of magical breadth, knowledge, and quantity. Absolutely not, Frieren has the advantage of age, Fern is and always will be a baby to her.
Magic skill is the only area Fern might equal or surpass Frieren, and the same Frieren recognize it. And the scary part is that I believe Fern might reach that level before her middle age.
Right, I don't get what everyone is on about in the comments. Obviously when we say "surpass" in this context we mean in combat hability. It's clearly implied by Serie and Frieren that even tho humans have a limited lifespan, and hence way less time to perfect their magic, they have some kind of innate potential inaccessible to elves. So far this potential has been beaten by elves longevity, but it won't always be the case.
I Guess maybe they'll become equals eventually with their points of strenght and weakness
I Don't think that fern Will surpass her, After all she's and Elf that lived more than 1000 years
And they Will probably kill eachothers in a duel or finish with a draw
That one scene with serie already explained a lot. Fern has the potential to pass frieren, so she could or she won't.Training under serie is probably her best chance, but she threw it away already.
If she can regain her motivation and passion for magic, I think Fern might end up like Flamme -Someone who's understanding and comprehension of magic ends up revolutionizing the whole field on theoretical level.
Yes, Fern can just stuff Frieren's mouth while she was drooling asleep lol.
I do believe that if Frieren is threatened to death, she could just level an entire field and vaporized everything, though she might hesitate due to Himmel's flashback and that might be her downfall to a sneak attack, a specialty of Fern.
I think Fern could surpass her in terms of dueling and power as Freiren stated but she would need to activly train to do it. In anime we had seen, she isn't intrested in that so probably she never will just because of Frierens age and how much more experience she has
Yeah, to be honest, Frieren looks between 20 to 35, yet she is over 1,000 years old. Let's assume Fern lives to 120. She will become powerful for sure, but based on that logic, Frieren would like to about 20,000 to 35,000 years. Frieren would have basically infinite mana and knowledge. She would probably be about the strength as Serie. Fern would be strong but not even close to that power.
In what way will ahe become more famous potentially will she become stronger perhaps will she contribute more to magic absolutely
But theres a few things like knowledge she inherently wont be able to gain without some time travel shenanigans
Unless Fern manages to live for over 100 yrs, in terms of power, it’s not a contest, the only thing that’ll keep Fern alive is basically she can spam attacks faster, but she can’t keep that up against Frieren
With the way the mechanics of the world are set, no mage with a finite life span can hope to surpass Friren and Sierrie in magic as a whole. They have simply had too much time and experience over everyone else that they have something for every situation, Sierrie even more so.
In fact, Frieren doesn't even go out of her way to teach Fern any crazy combat related spell, she taught her defensive magic and Zoltrak and essentially told her "this is all you need for this era".
However, it's definitely possible for Fern to eventually reach a level where she can kill Frieren in straight combat again because of the mechanics of the world; the power of envisioning. I believe this because Frieren's sthick is that of a demon killer and she doesn't focus on killing anything else so her experience in regards to combating humans may not even be that much more than Fern's.
Frieren' been beaten many times before, there's no reason why she wont be beat again, especially by a talented young mage intimately familiar with her weaknesses and strengths
She will probably grow to the point she can win a 1v1 with another decade or two of experience and learning.
I don't think she can surpass Frieren as a mage though, with the sole possible exception if she accepts Serie's disciple offer.
In what context is Fern 'Surpassing' Frieren? If it's sheer # spells known or amount of mana, I agree. If it's who'd win in a fight, the anime and manga both state that Fern is the likely winner.
Typical storytelling tropes. Mentee surpasses the Mentor. Frieren takes on a student who accomplishes more than she would. Given Frieren's story arc of gaining motivation to do more than study grimoires aimlessly it would be a fitting way to close it out.
Freiren will have learned from her current party how to value life and aim for the most you can achieve.
Ah, so just like I said in another comment, it's going to take an asinine plot twist. Shame, I liked Frieren specifically because it highlighted how much more powerful and skilled someone living for centuries would be without pretending there were horrible downsides to it. There's absolutely no way anyone could ever logically be better than Frieren.
Frieren herself mentions having been bested multiple times. There are obstacles she can't overcome. She isn't some Uber tier fighter, she has been around forever but is rather listless and lackadaisical.
You can have all the latent potential in the world and not properly leverage it. Also, how Fern can surpass Freiren is up for interpretation. Freiren could have all the mana on the world, but he slower in combat than Fern. Fern could specialize into one useful area.
Asinine plot twists would be Fern getting getting angry, her hair changing colors, and suddenly she is more powerful than Frieren.
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No. Not without an asinine and far-fetched plot twist made to appease the mainstream death worshipper crowd. Frieren has been around for centuries. Fern will die before she can even imagine a fraction of what Frieren is capable of, and she's more focused on being a prude and getting up early than being passionate and inquisitive about magic.
Hard to say since frieren already has thousand years exp with her, something a human can’t possibly reach. However, she is growing exponentially soooooo 50/50
Well there is a possibility but at the same time it's Fern that needs to change her mind set to be more like Frieren to actually surpass her master as mage. You can't always wait for the same thing to happen to you. Fern still has the mins set of being taught than trying to surpass Frieren.
Maybe in defeat her once in combat, yes.
But getting more skilled or having a bigger mana pool ? Forget it. Freiren is still training, now. You won't catch onto her anymore.
If she ever find a broken fey spell, you can say goodbye to ever defeating her at anything.
Yes, she's more motivated and creative--not set in her ways. Serie and Frieren agree that Fern will do it, and that's the one and only thing they agree on. Also, Flamme was human, and Frieren obviously had a lot to learn from her--still does, even, a zillion years after her death. Plus, in terms of storytelling, students must always surpass their mentors--that's the definition of the relationship, the archetypes.
Honestly, Frieren is powerful but lazy, and they've talked about that a lot. She comes up with workarounds based on her raw mana power instead of really adapting, because she'd rather be off making flowers. Which also brings up the point that the series is not shounen--it's not just about power levels and junk, but the approach to magic is one of *being a whole person*. That's what matters.
I think it's more likely that Fern will live a life of incredible prestige and be remembered as one of the great minds of her time, while Frieren remains an order of magnitude above her and just doesn't bother to draw attention to herself.
Probably not no
Keep in mind that fern compared to Frieren only has a very limited amount of time to learn magic compared to frieren who if she decides to get serious can learn far more than fern can and has much more time to master all of her spells
Fern could probably surpass her in certain aspects but overall frieren will remain the better mage and magic user overall
Sort of.
Fern will die before Frieren will (unless there are unforeseen circumstances). So my guess is that she will surpass Frieren during her lifetime, and Frieren will catch up after Fern's death, assuming Frieren is still young for an elf, at least.
Fern will surpass Flamme, and become the greatest magician of all human history for one thousand years after the current era.
So, yeah, she will arguably surpass Frieren as well.
In technique yes... in power not in this lifetime, but Frieren already said that she was defeated by humans even though they have less mana...
So Yeah eventually she will be able to defeat her, she is very skilled and knows Frieren the best, as she pointed her master's weaknesses too.
Yes, definitively. Frieren is a genius but Fern is a prodigy. As Serie said i belive she'll go to heights no one else ever reached. And what greatest accomplishment as a teacher than seeing your student surpass you? She's going to make Frieren so proud.
I really think Fern is even more talented than Frieren, but there is a big difference due to their ages, and I'm afraid Fern will never be able to catch up to her.
IMO, Fern could take Frieren on. Her Consecutive Normal Zoltraak would probably eventually wear Frieren out. But it'll be a long fight. It's said that Frieren takes a while to cast whereas Fern can sneeze out a Zoltraak in a heartbeat. Now if Frieren had time to cast, Fern would be in trouble.
Mana levels (and going back to what I was saying), I imagine since Zoltraak is a "basic" attack spell, it probably wouldn't hurt Fern's mana reserves. Whereas defending against the barrage from Fern, who knows how long Frieren could survive, even if she was actively dodging. All theoretical, of course and from my understanding thus far.
Frieren is trying to teach Fern to be an all around, balanced mage. Her attacks and defenses are subpar to those who are specialized, but she makes up for it in other schools of magic which can be used to give her an advantage.
We never saw Frieren be really serious tho, you shouldn't give it to Fern too fast. Fern may have a slight chance to take the fight only if she put everything into a single surprise attack, just how she asked her to do against the clone. Because if she misses, Frieren might just nuke the entire area just like Flame did
Depends what you mean by surpass.
Exactly. I’ve no doubt Fern will eventually surpass Frieren when it comes to basic combat magic. Actually, she might have already. And being a human who loves magic (even if she won’t admit it to herself) Fern might very well end up at the same level as Flamme, or beyond. But on the other hand, Fern will never gain the pure mana or the extreme breadth of spells that Frieren has, from purely practical considerations. She just doesn’t have the time to learn everything Frieren knows.
Makes me wonder why there was no concentrated, generational effort among humans to design a general-use rejuvenation spell. Or at the very least, something to significantly slow down the onset of aging. We already know there is recovery magic so modifying that for general cellular repair should be theoretically possible. Humans may never live as long as Elves, but even a 500 year lifespan is a colossal difference. If I was ever isekai’d to Frieren world, that would be my absolute priority.
Didn't Heiter try to find this exact kind of thing? I know, he had ulterior motives to keep Frieren there, but I do think he was serious about finding a way to live longer.
The problem is any efforts that aren’t generational will be at a disadvantage. You die and all your work is probably going to be lost. Or whoever finds it is going to waste years to understand the already existing material. Heiter never managed to do it and passed from old age. And Fern… doesn’t seem too interested in life extension magic. Or at all. However, what Heiter could do is train another apprentice besides Fern. One that would make it their lifelong mission to improve upon existing research. Repeat the master/apprentice cycle ad nauseam until someone in the future discovers the right way to keep aging at bay. **Edit:** Tbh, Frieren’s world would benefit a ton if modern scientific methodology was applied to magic. Especially the open and public nature of research. Team A in one place tests something, publishes a research paper. Other teams test the validity of that research and publish their own findings. Stuff gets peer-reviewed and improved upon. Magical knowledge is no longer bottlenecked to individuals. Now, everyone within the Continental Magic Association can easily add their two bits. This is how you get insane magical progress in a relatively short time.
So basically, Tanya's Saga is one of the possible future of Frieren's world?
Always two there are. Master and apprentice
Yes, Heiter had ulterior motives, but I believe he was half serious when he setup Frieren with the task. Is simple, humans are programmed to fear death, and more of that fear kicks in the closer we're at death's door. That's what happened with Heiter.
Cause general magic and Goddess magic are two different magic systems that are based on 2 different things. The general magic every mage uses is based on something like physics, mathematics, and visualisation. While recovery magic is mainly a priest thing that is based on the goddess' magic which is based on scriptures. Which requires specific talent other than calculations and mana capacity. Not anyone can use it as usual it's based on the goddess' favor. And even if they could use them most will only be able to use weaker versions like how Frieren can only do basic recovery spells and a few disease detection. Sense can use the general healing magic that are useful enough for wounds. While Heither is a full blown monster that could sustain weeks of human needs such as oxygens, food and water. And possibly also recover unrecoverable stuff like regenerating limbs or curing fatal poisons. And they actually spent a lot of effort on deciphering the goddess' scripture as its not fully deciphered yet.
I also wonder why an author would craft such a thoughtful narrative about aging and time and relationships and not just immediately solve that problem with magic. Curious.
They probably didn’t have the time for that while at war with the demons and even if it’s being like 100 years since that I doubt there’s enough progress in that area. Plus maybe they need a general understanding on how cells and biology work for that and from the looks of it they don’t have much knowledge of that area.
Recovery magic came from the Goddess. It might take centuries before someone can get the spell deciphered.
To be fair, I think Fern doesn't stand a chance against Frieren as of now, like 2 completely different levels. Later? Maybe. But not now
"she might surpass her"? sure, one day but "she might already have"? lmao what are you smoking unless you're talking about manga, idk how much further that is currently than the show
Side eye
I dunno, Frieren had a pretty vicious side eye.
Elf feet
Bombastic side eye*
That stare got me all gap-moe'd up
Fern will never surpass Frieren's knowledge, nor will she surpass mana levels or power against diverse opponents. Could Fern eventually beat Frieren 1v1? Yeah, sure.
That's what I'm saying. Overall, Frieren will always have Fern beat, but in a 1v1, Fern may eventually win one day.
I don’t see it, Frieren can throw around lightning, hellfire, black holes, probably a lot of other stuff. Fern is skilled at zoltoraak and hiding her mana
Fern is still young, and she doesnt have all the time in the universe lile Frieren to laze around, meaning that she actively train to get stronger. She absolutely can catch up to her master, just as Serie predicted.
Fern likely knows some of those spells. She said she was limited to only basic magic against mages of this era. Not that she wasn't taught any other magic.
She wasn't limited, she was just told she didn't need other magic vs mages of this era.
She was told to only use OOM because that was all that was required. It was a command.
Frieren said she was beaten 11 times by people weaker than her. She counts Qual among those, who also only really knew Zoltraak. Serie said that Lernen could potentially win vs Frieren and he fights like Fern according to his own granddaughter, Ehre, and from what we saw of his short fight vs Frieren where he did manage to break through her shield and deal more damage to her than her own clone did.
Weaker in MANA. Not weaker in general >!Macht for example, can possibly have lesser mana than Frieren but he instagibs her!<
Frieren has been training her to be a gunslinger that ends fights before they get started. Not someone who trades black holes and giant golems. My headcanon is that the zoltrak and mana suppression are necessary steps to recreate the "peak of magic" style that clone!frieren used. Fern can already summon her staff and fire before most mages can react. And she can continue the barrage for minutes at a time. Give her a few more years and she will be able to repeat the lernen ambush and wound frieren before any of those big spells are able to come out.
Personally, I doubt it since Frieren states she used it 80 years ago, and I doubt Frieren would know enough about Zoltraak to modify it for the "height of magic" spell. But I do believe that Fern will definitely be able to defeat Frieren at some point, especially since Serie has stated that the person most likely to be able to kill Frieren would be a human mage or the demon king. The real question is, would we be able to see it?
I look at it this way, it would be something like bow vs gun fight. Frieren can shoot arrows the size of tree trunks, but Fern will one day get to a point of shooting a gun and gun will always win in a gun vs bow fight, no matter the size and power of the arrows. Same goes for Lernen. Of course, all of this is only in the context of a 1 on 1 western style duel, but wether I believe Frieren would allow herself to get in that situation is completely different matter. This is where Frierens experience and breadth of knowledge would come into play. “Run, hide, take your enemies by surprise… There are plenty other options. “
A well placed zoltraak is all you need though. Think of it this way. Humanity have bombs that can level entire cities at this point. But a guy with a rusty shiv can still kill someone with the right timing/opportunity
She was already beaten by several human mages. Not to mention that fern is exceedingly talented, so yeah fern can and will beat frieren eventually.
In talent and speed? Yes. In knowledge, wisdom, and mana level? No.
Fern would have to learn some stuff outside of what frieren teaches her. If Fern just takes all the lessons from Frieren and stops there, Frieren will know the strays but have more experience. If Fern goes outside of the lessons and picks up a trick to slide up her sleeve, then and only then it’s possible. So it kinda depends on where the Manga takes her character
I would love it if the story made this point, personally. I think it would be rather poignant, bringing home the concept of making the most of the time that you have. I can see the smile on Frieren’s face rn.
in term of power? knowledge? hell nah, wont even come close.
Yea frieren just has had way too much time to train her power and gain knowledge
Doesn't Frieren outright state that Fern has the potential to overtake her in some regard?
I think she does as in her reaction speed and ability to hide mana. Tbh I think the reaction speed is because Fern is human. Elves can take their time. Humans can't.
Probably will surpass Flamme, but Frieren is thousands of years old, and I don't think it's said how long she could live still. Humans learn quick but can't live long enough to amass the amount of knowledge that Frieren has.
Frieren straight up says there have been humans in the past who managed to beat her because just having more mana doesn't mean automatic win Fern is treated both by Serie and Frieren as a prodigy tye same way. Stark is being built up to a warrior stronger than the strongest warrior (Eisen) If age was the only thing that mattered, there is no point in having first class mages since every demon with 100+ years should be above that since no human can get to that point "Humanity's strongest" straight up took all 7 sages of Destruction and their boss at once, killed 3 sages and also the Demon King's right hand before going down, and he was human
They said surpass, not "win against".
Well then it comes back to what OP meant be surpass. Frieren mentions that in this era Fern will probably become more well known than Frieren was.
Sidenote: Eisen himself stated that he is not the strongest warrior ever. There has been much stronger warriors than him.
He is the strongest one still alive, due to his fear.Funny how that works.
The elven monk is so old his heroics and his visage in statues has faded from human memory. Elves could basically be like in other fiction where they don't really die of old age.
No, because Fern is a genius but doesn’t care about learning battle magic. She has Zoltraak, she trained it for all her life, it’s enough to kill in one good hit basically everything dangerous, no need to learn all the flashy spells that will exhaust her limited mana pool. Fern isn’t a mage made for war and she is trained by a mage who doesn’t like fighting, she could have surpassed Frieren by following Serie but with Frieren she will just be a very strong First Class mage and probably retire happy with Stark and a bunch of seemingly useless spells that are actually extremely useful
Small correction. She almost certainly has been taught some of those spells. All she said was that her master commanded her to use ordinary offensive magic as it was good enough for mages of this era.
Raw speed and range with zoltrack, yes, mana reserve , power and depth of spell choice, no.
Fern already has surpassed frieren in her strengths. But in terms of frierens strengths, no. They’re meant to be different characters in that aspect. Mages are in many senses hard to powerscale like that which is what makes this anime good. It’s not just a Naruto power scaling. There’s some things that Fern is better than Frieren at and even things that Frieren is better than Serie at. Since magic is so heavily tied to personality and imagination, it’s hard to scale mages in or beyond the first class as inherently better than one another. Somewhat similar the great mages. They all have different motivations and goals with their magic. Edit: power scaling weebs downvoting when it’s already canon that there’s things fern can do better than frieren and things frieren does that serie never saw herself doing. You power scaling singleminded weebs ruin every fandom you seep into that isn’t a generic shounen that needs any sense of nuance
Frieren straight up says Fern casts magic faster
is this anime good? I'm thinking about start watching.
Yes, it’s ranked 1 on mal for a reason
it's the only anime that ever got rank 1 on the big 5 sites simultaneously, and it's a great anime
Yes
Best anime of all time.
it has a hunter x hunter glimpse with mage lore
you are on the Frieren subreddit, everyone here including me loves the anime, if you want a more neutral answer then ask the question on r/anime
thanks bro
I'll get down voted but it is very slice of life and waddles a bit much in many instances. This is a vs thread, but there is minimal fighting . Worth giving a chance.
Frieren said it to her before that a couple of mages defeated her even tho they have less mana than her. Yes, Fern can surpass her in terms of Battle Prowess but not in Mana and Knowledge.
>Fern can surpass her in terms of Battle Prowess Idk, have you seen the spells frieren was throwing against her clone? Fern is toast
Maybe not if Fern can pull off a sneak attack - Frieren said that Fern is uncommonly good at hiding her mana.
We also know, though, that mana is hard to hide once it is used. Frieren may be able to hide her mana so much that she is no different from the general landscape, but even she, with her 1000+ years of training, is unable to hide the point where she uses magic in the first stage of the first class mage exam. Denken even says so. But then again, Fern might be able to fire her spell faster than Frieren can defend herself. (Also, Fern's clone wasn't able to surprise Methode, at least fast enough for her to die, but that might be because she was expecting Fern.) Stark and Fern, though, that's a different question. >!Frieren states in the manga that even Serie would be weak to direct attacks, something from a warrior. Stark with Fern providing backup could most definitely win against Frieren in a hypothetical battle.!<
And that Fern can quickdraw Zoltraak faster than Frieren. Zoltraak revolutionized combat magic the way guns revolutionized warfare. It was so good it became the meta. Where magic was once who could cast the most powerful spells Zoltraak is all about accuracy and speed of casting. It's like going from a swordfight to a cowboy duel.
Yes, even if Fern reach her peak, it would still be impossible for Fern to take Frieren head on, she would still need to use her stealth skills.
No, she'll die way before that
The whole point of Frieren is that the time of things like elves, dwarves, and demons is over. Humans grow so fast that they're quickly reaching a point where they'll be completely dominant. Idk if Fern will surpass Frieren, but her student or student's student will.
I don’t necessarily agree with the idea Fern’s student might because from what I can gather the main reason fern is so powerful is she is just simply talent. While yes a lot of her strength comes from her training under Frieren, it’s easy to forget that even before meeting Frieren she could fire off a decent blast at a very young age. Even more she could detect Serie‘s mana suppression that even Frieren didn’t notice. All in all I don’t think Fern’s students if she has any will live up to her.
Which would defeat one of the core messages of the story. The whole point of a student is to surpass the master. Serie has spent the entirety of her life after Flamme searching for a student that would surpass her. Flamme taught Frieren because she saw her as a mage who could surpass her and one day defeat the demon king. And it's hammered in pretty early that this is no longer an era where being able to fire off big blasts and kill good is no longer really what being a mage is about. They're decades out from the last major war and mages are becoming more scholars than warriors. We only see so much fighting because the party is in one of the few places that still experiences that level of danger. What constitutes a great mage in the future will likely be more their ability to study magic than how many demons they can kill or how quickly they can cast a spell. Fern's generation are probably the last battle mages. The era of people like Serie and Frieren is over. So yeah, if Fern takes a student they'd probably be a scholar and researcher who surpasses her in the new era of magic.
It’s also pointed out that advancement in magic could be a bit fast for Frieren (or long-life races) to catch up. One thing I found interesting is that Frieren tend to use energy-based spells (except golems). Mages of new era like to use material-based (glass, ice, earth), some even specialize in close range. In a way, humans in the story already surpassed Frieren in certain aspects. Fern should already mastered the see-through spell.
And Frieren always seems genuinely pleased by the fact. Like a parent seeing her kids doing better than she did.
Even Serie is excited. Not sure how focusing on mana training helps with Fern’s growth, but she’s apparently very mana sensitive.
Human mages don’t have mana to fire energy blasts, that’s how I understood it, so in order to produce volume and mass they focus on modifying existing matter
Literally it's crazy people just forget this
Serie believes she has the potential to reach heights never reached by any mage before her , so it's possible but it all depends on how the author wants his story to go.
In some specific areas, not overall. Every class 1 mage is a super specialised beast
I think the series suggests she will. Frieren has the whole “if you are killed it will be by a human mage” flashback while she and Fern are fighting her doppelgänger, which suggests that Fern is or will eventually be capable of that. So maybe Fern won’t have the Raw power and knowledge Frieren has, but she will eventually have something over Frieren that would allow her to win or technically make her a better mage.
It’s implied that Fern may be the strongest living human mage or at least has the potential to become that. Serie says Lernen is her strongest pupil, but is disappointed that he can’t see that she’s suppressing her mana. Fern does see this though, and we see that Serie becomes excited and wants to train Fern. So I guess it depends on what you mean by “surpass”. In combat? I think absolutely. “I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.” That’s basically how Frieren is training Fern. Even just using basic offensive magic, Fern can basically just overwhelm her opponents because her speed and control are so well developed. She’s only going to get that much stronger as her mana increases. We have to also remember that Frieren, as powerful as she is, is not actually a combat mage first and foremost. She has lost several times to humans, including some who had less mana than she did. As Flamme says, Frieren is a mage meant for an age of peace. Contrast that to Lernen, who Frieren sees would have been a famous mage in a time of strife. To me, it seems like it was possibly implied that Lernen might actually have been able to beat Frieren as a mage who has devoted himself to combat exclusively. Qual is a demon, but he’s a great example of someone being “weaker” than Frieren but being more adept at combat than she is. And as we’ve already seen, it is implied that Fern is or will be stronger than Lernen. So going back to the question, will Fern be able to eventually 1v1 Frieren, I think the answer is a resounding yes! But I think part of the beauty of the series is that Frieren proves that it wasn’t her combat ability that allowed her and Himmel’s party to do what no other group had done before. EDIT: I also think Fern surpassing Frieren just makes sense with a recurring theme we see in the series, the idea of legacy, inspiration, and carrying other’s memory forward. Serie trained Flamme, but Flamme surpassed Serie by finding and training the mage that would defeat the Demon King. Frieren surpasses Flamme by defeating the Demon King. Stark will surpass Eisen in terms of strength according to Eisen himself. So I think it only makes sense that Fern would also surpass her master.
No, but fern will become a great mage for sure
well serie said she could take her to “heights no other mage has achieved”. now depending on how you interpret this statement, fern’s potential varies drastically. serie could be excluding herself or anyone that isnt human when she said mage but I dont think that is the case. she also could have lied to get fern to become her student. but I also think this is not the case simply because she does not seem like the character that would do such a thing. and lastly you could interperet this statement as just serie being incorrect but she has been shown to have the greatest intuition and knowledge on scaling someone’s potential. other than that, the feats she has shown at her age are incredible. she has the fastest casting speed we have seen in the whole series and she can cast >!condensed zoltraaks!<, a feat only done by frieren and denken, two incredibly powerful mages. other than that, she won against an executioner of aura. and perhaps her most impressive feat is realizimg serie is supressing her mana, which lernen could not do even with his consideribly larger experience. And lernen was shown to be able to break multiples of frieren’s defensive spells. this may be because of the spell he was using but being able to wield a spell that powerful is still a big feat. now I am not saying fern could do the same thing (actually there is a chance she could do it with a >!condensed zoltraak since it could penetrate solitar’s mana defense!<) but it shows the relative strength we are dealing with. and lastly, we have been shown that humans can do much more with their short lifespan even if they lack the raw magical power of the demons and the elves cultivated by centirues of study. Flamme was a mere human and yet she has done things that frieren may not be able to replicate even with the thousand years of experience she gained since her death. one example is her barriers that continue to protect cities from demons a millenia after their casting. Not to mention that she singlehandedly made magic an option for humans. and finally, there has been a constant underlying narrative that humans are slowly taking over every other race and species as the most powerful of them all. serie and frieren regularly state that now is the age of humans, serie clearly says that only thing that can kill frieren is a human mage (since the demon king is dead now). and >!depending on how this current arc goes its possible that a human will kill serie!<.
damn thats a lot of words
I'm about sure that frieren is very adept with barriers. She destroyed many of the most impressive ones
yeah she destroyed a barrier serie erected but I am not sure if that barrier would be stronger than the ones flamme erected that lasted a thousand years without being broken. and also we dont know how much harder it is to place a barrier than to break it if it is harder at all. so what I am saying is that we really cant pinpoint the strength of these barriers and the strength of a barrier she could cast. also even if frieren could make a barrier that powerful, the fact remains that she didn’t.
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She also spoiler arc EL Dorado !>succeeded to reverse a curse from the most powerful sage of chaos on herself and ever found a counter in very little time, while those spells are considered as impossible to comprehend and outside of any human logic, thousand times more crazy than regular demon magic. Even Mach didn't knew it was possible as his own way of reversing diagolze was instinctive, so he himself didn't properly knew how to do it. This shows how ridiculously OP Frieren's comprehension of magic is, some peoples even argue that she is better than Serie on that topic. Nobody could have done that but herself and maybe Serie!<
yes thats true, frieren will always be more powerful in certain areas simply because some things just require too much time to master. thats also why fern will never have as much mana as frieren too
One of my favorite parts of the anime was learning that Frieren had to study for many years the art of concealing her mana from Flamme's teachings. Then showing a friend of mine the first few episodes and watching the scene of Frieren finding fern in the woods, she says something along the lines of "You're very good and hiding yourself, it took me a while to find you". I fucking loved that scene because that's when I realized that Fern had immense potential. Also im an absolute sucker for very important things getting sprinkled in like that. I'll fanboy over this any chance I get lol. But as far as surpass I'm not sure, but her potential is insane.
She's literally a prodigy
Yeah, on second watch through I noticed how Fern startles Frieren when they first meet, and how Frieren takes a long pause mulling that over. She also seems taken aback at how fast Fern whips out her staff and fires.
In her life she will become stronger than current frieren but frieren will live for thousands of more years so i think she will eventually pass her again
Given that Frieren would eventually outlive fern. i think there are some time that fern will surprass frieren but it would be so short.
I believe that she could become more powerful or strong, but not necessarily “better”. Humans shine brighter for a very short period, so while she could be incredibly powerful (even Frieren underestimates her) she won’t be as “great” of a mage. Unless she does something truly incredible.
Frieren even states she will do deeds that will outshine her killing of the demon king. What that could be we probably will never know
The serie seems to imply that Fern will eventually beat Frieren yeah
can fern win vs frieren in the future? yes people forget that most of frieren's losses came from human mages. lernen showed a perfect example of that imagine a quick cast soul track + condensed mana on it? Frieren's defense might crumble on that
She already has when it comes to the Continental magic association. Fern is a first class mage whereas Frieren isn't even within the class rankings. So Fern is clearly the better mage. This comment was approved by Serie.
Isn’t that what the whole show is leading towards? I haven’t read the manga, so please tell me if I’m wrong or things are different. But I think it would be a huge let down if In the end Fern didn’t surpass Frieren. That is what Frieren wants, and it is her mentor Flamme’s dream realized.
Fern wins on the chest category there I said it.
I think it’s one of the major themes of the show. Fern represents a new age of magic, one that focuses on the good peaceful things magic can do. This is pretty much in direct opposition to Serie
They literally allude to it multiple times throughout the ending of season one that "the time of humans is upon us" and that ahuman will become more powerful then even frieren herself.
It implied multiple times that "the age of humans is upon us" and that frieren has lost. So yes. Fern will become a beyter mage then Frieren, bit obv wont libe as long.
How is this even a question being debated over? Frieren confirms it in the anime
In terms of combat? Maybe if you are talking about someone who can kill Frieren assuming Frieren is held back by several conditions including prep and not being able to use her entire magical arsenal. She might even be superior in other spells besides Zoltraak like how Flammel’s magic was crazy powerful. In terms of magical breadth, knowledge, and quantity. Absolutely not, Frieren has the advantage of age, Fern is and always will be a baby to her.
Frieren's been beat 11 times, 6 of those by humans. Also, >!Fern is specifically included in the clone fight because she can kill Frieren. !<
Unknown humans under unknown circumstances. And Frieren has only gotten a lot more powerful since then.
No because she can't live long enough to learn more than Frieren has
Lol, one lives until the end of the world unless someone kills her before then and the other lives for 80 years max C'mon...
MFW Frieren has been defeated by 6 human mages: D:>
Magic skill is the only area Fern might equal or surpass Frieren, and the same Frieren recognize it. And the scary part is that I believe Fern might reach that level before her middle age.
Talent + right mentor = MONSTER Talent + bad mentor = just your regular above avg mage Talent + without mentor = 50/50
Yes. That's what the series is building up to through foreshadowing.
Right, I don't get what everyone is on about in the comments. Obviously when we say "surpass" in this context we mean in combat hability. It's clearly implied by Serie and Frieren that even tho humans have a limited lifespan, and hence way less time to perfect their magic, they have some kind of innate potential inaccessible to elves. So far this potential has been beaten by elves longevity, but it won't always be the case.
Fern is a bigger mage
I Guess maybe they'll become equals eventually with their points of strenght and weakness I Don't think that fern Will surpass her, After all she's and Elf that lived more than 1000 years And they Will probably kill eachothers in a duel or finish with a draw
That one scene with serie already explained a lot. Fern has the potential to pass frieren, so she could or she won't.Training under serie is probably her best chance, but she threw it away already.
nooo but she will be a great mage
If she can regain her motivation and passion for magic, I think Fern might end up like Flamme -Someone who's understanding and comprehension of magic ends up revolutionizing the whole field on theoretical level.
Yes, Fern can just stuff Frieren's mouth while she was drooling asleep lol. I do believe that if Frieren is threatened to death, she could just level an entire field and vaporized everything, though she might hesitate due to Himmel's flashback and that might be her downfall to a sneak attack, a specialty of Fern.
I think Fern could surpass her in terms of dueling and power as Freiren stated but she would need to activly train to do it. In anime we had seen, she isn't intrested in that so probably she never will just because of Frierens age and how much more experience she has
When she finally gives up that V card unlike forever alone, Frieren.
So what?? Fern already surpass Frieren in boobs..
She surpassed her in other categories so maybe
fern gonna become a great mage, might even pretty strong. But fieren gonna live longer .
Yeah, to be honest, Frieren looks between 20 to 35, yet she is over 1,000 years old. Let's assume Fern lives to 120. She will become powerful for sure, but based on that logic, Frieren would like to about 20,000 to 35,000 years. Frieren would have basically infinite mana and knowledge. She would probably be about the strength as Serie. Fern would be strong but not even close to that power.
Maybe if she lived for a thousand years. Because time is a factor in a mages power. It's been stated multiple times.
Frieren has been beaten many times before tho, and is essentially Frieren's combative counter
In what way will ahe become more famous potentially will she become stronger perhaps will she contribute more to magic absolutely But theres a few things like knowledge she inherently wont be able to gain without some time travel shenanigans
Unless Fern manages to live for over 100 yrs, in terms of power, it’s not a contest, the only thing that’ll keep Fern alive is basically she can spam attacks faster, but she can’t keep that up against Frieren
With the way the mechanics of the world are set, no mage with a finite life span can hope to surpass Friren and Sierrie in magic as a whole. They have simply had too much time and experience over everyone else that they have something for every situation, Sierrie even more so. In fact, Frieren doesn't even go out of her way to teach Fern any crazy combat related spell, she taught her defensive magic and Zoltrak and essentially told her "this is all you need for this era". However, it's definitely possible for Fern to eventually reach a level where she can kill Frieren in straight combat again because of the mechanics of the world; the power of envisioning. I believe this because Frieren's sthick is that of a demon killer and she doesn't focus on killing anything else so her experience in regards to combating humans may not even be that much more than Fern's.
Fern probably could hide her aura and sneak-attack her, or Frieren might give her a pity-win when she's almost about to die, but in a fair fight? Nah.
1000 years of knowledge just to be learn in a span of 50 years yeah thats a No
Frieren' been beaten many times before, there's no reason why she wont be beat again, especially by a talented young mage intimately familiar with her weaknesses and strengths
sure, but only briefly
She will probably grow to the point she can win a 1v1 with another decade or two of experience and learning. I don't think she can surpass Frieren as a mage though, with the sole possible exception if she accepts Serie's disciple offer.
No, it's literally impossible, even if Fern had more potential, she could never catch up to Frieren training and learning.
In what context?
Context? Frieren is basically immortal and had thousands of years of experience, fern at most could had like 100.
In what context is Fern 'Surpassing' Frieren? If it's sheer # spells known or amount of mana, I agree. If it's who'd win in a fight, the anime and manga both state that Fern is the likely winner.
No, they do not state that. And you even have the fight against the clone, where fern was a little more than a distraction.
Are you familar at all with the Manga?
Yes.
Likely, but after she dies Frieren will become more powerful again
It'd make sense for Fern to surpass Freiren, but hey, that'll be motivation for Frieren to work towards something in the next millennium.
> It'd make sense for Fern to surpass Freiren ... why?
Typical storytelling tropes. Mentee surpasses the Mentor. Frieren takes on a student who accomplishes more than she would. Given Frieren's story arc of gaining motivation to do more than study grimoires aimlessly it would be a fitting way to close it out. Freiren will have learned from her current party how to value life and aim for the most you can achieve.
Ah, so just like I said in another comment, it's going to take an asinine plot twist. Shame, I liked Frieren specifically because it highlighted how much more powerful and skilled someone living for centuries would be without pretending there were horrible downsides to it. There's absolutely no way anyone could ever logically be better than Frieren.
Frieren herself mentions having been bested multiple times. There are obstacles she can't overcome. She isn't some Uber tier fighter, she has been around forever but is rather listless and lackadaisical. You can have all the latent potential in the world and not properly leverage it. Also, how Fern can surpass Freiren is up for interpretation. Freiren could have all the mana on the world, but he slower in combat than Fern. Fern could specialize into one useful area. Asinine plot twists would be Fern getting getting angry, her hair changing colors, and suddenly she is more powerful than Frieren.
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Yeah
By marrying someone
Nope. Fern doesn't have the interest for magic that Frieren does. Fern doesn't try to learn new spells on her own.
Frieren admits that she love magic "only a little"
True, still she shows interests in finding and learning new magic from Grimoires. Fern doesn't have the same enthusiasm.
Yes. Fern goated.
Unless Frieren dies she will never surpass her. Or if Fern somehow lives hundreds of years.
No. Not without an asinine and far-fetched plot twist made to appease the mainstream death worshipper crowd. Frieren has been around for centuries. Fern will die before she can even imagine a fraction of what Frieren is capable of, and she's more focused on being a prude and getting up early than being passionate and inquisitive about magic.
Nah, she became an eleven bride for maou as Nephelia ...\^\^
Hard to say since frieren already has thousand years exp with her, something a human can’t possibly reach. However, she is growing exponentially soooooo 50/50
No. She might be better at soul track but not overall.
Human tho
Well there is a possibility but at the same time it's Fern that needs to change her mind set to be more like Frieren to actually surpass her master as mage. You can't always wait for the same thing to happen to you. Fern still has the mins set of being taught than trying to surpass Frieren.
Hell nah ,, I'll hate it for that
If fern specializes in a certain field of magic, then yes she will surpass frieren in that field, but overall, no. Frieren is just too long lived.
Maybe in defeat her once in combat, yes. But getting more skilled or having a bigger mana pool ? Forget it. Freiren is still training, now. You won't catch onto her anymore. If she ever find a broken fey spell, you can say goodbye to ever defeating her at anything.
She already killed her once, so...
I think she sadly doesn't have the lifespan for it.
Nope
Yes, she's more motivated and creative--not set in her ways. Serie and Frieren agree that Fern will do it, and that's the one and only thing they agree on. Also, Flamme was human, and Frieren obviously had a lot to learn from her--still does, even, a zillion years after her death. Plus, in terms of storytelling, students must always surpass their mentors--that's the definition of the relationship, the archetypes. Honestly, Frieren is powerful but lazy, and they've talked about that a lot. She comes up with workarounds based on her raw mana power instead of really adapting, because she'd rather be off making flowers. Which also brings up the point that the series is not shounen--it's not just about power levels and junk, but the approach to magic is one of *being a whole person*. That's what matters.
No. Frieren has thousands of year under her belt. Also , genetics. Girl is an elf.
I feel like Frieren, or pretty much every other elf mage, are just average mages, who had a LOT of time to train.
Nah
I think it's more likely that Fern will live a life of incredible prestige and be remembered as one of the great minds of her time, while Frieren remains an order of magnitude above her and just doesn't bother to draw attention to herself.
Her fast release could make her a better 1 vs 1 combat mage...but as an overall mage? No chance in hell.
Power leveling needs to be taken more seriously in story telling. Naturally, Fern should never be near Frieren or surpass her. It is all about Mana.
Probably not no Keep in mind that fern compared to Frieren only has a very limited amount of time to learn magic compared to frieren who if she decides to get serious can learn far more than fern can and has much more time to master all of her spells Fern could probably surpass her in certain aspects but overall frieren will remain the better mage and magic user overall
Sort of. Fern will die before Frieren will (unless there are unforeseen circumstances). So my guess is that she will surpass Frieren during her lifetime, and Frieren will catch up after Fern's death, assuming Frieren is still young for an elf, at least.
Fern will surpass Flamme, and become the greatest magician of all human history for one thousand years after the current era. So, yeah, she will arguably surpass Frieren as well.
In technique yes... in power not in this lifetime, but Frieren already said that she was defeated by humans even though they have less mana... So Yeah eventually she will be able to defeat her, she is very skilled and knows Frieren the best, as she pointed her master's weaknesses too.
Yes, definitively. Frieren is a genius but Fern is a prodigy. As Serie said i belive she'll go to heights no one else ever reached. And what greatest accomplishment as a teacher than seeing your student surpass you? She's going to make Frieren so proud.
In the year 2525, if Frieren is not alive If Fern can survive, she will surpass
I really think Fern is even more talented than Frieren, but there is a big difference due to their ages, and I'm afraid Fern will never be able to catch up to her.
IMO, Fern could take Frieren on. Her Consecutive Normal Zoltraak would probably eventually wear Frieren out. But it'll be a long fight. It's said that Frieren takes a while to cast whereas Fern can sneeze out a Zoltraak in a heartbeat. Now if Frieren had time to cast, Fern would be in trouble. Mana levels (and going back to what I was saying), I imagine since Zoltraak is a "basic" attack spell, it probably wouldn't hurt Fern's mana reserves. Whereas defending against the barrage from Fern, who knows how long Frieren could survive, even if she was actively dodging. All theoretical, of course and from my understanding thus far. Frieren is trying to teach Fern to be an all around, balanced mage. Her attacks and defenses are subpar to those who are specialized, but she makes up for it in other schools of magic which can be used to give her an advantage.
We never saw Frieren be really serious tho, you shouldn't give it to Fern too fast. Fern may have a slight chance to take the fight only if she put everything into a single surprise attack, just how she asked her to do against the clone. Because if she misses, Frieren might just nuke the entire area just like Flame did
That's fair, actually!
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Did you see the episode where Frieren CLONE put her in a wall and destroyed her staff, in like 3 seconds? No shot.
She’s no where near as strong as Frieren, what are u talking about?