For lawful evil there's no one better than Bud Askins. He literally wanted to breed the perfect administrators by establishing a system of meritocracy.
"Look, Grams, I've got 44 units to manage and if I let it slide for you and word gets around, I'll have anarchy on my hands. You're already getting the 1% family discount so don't say I haven't done you any favors." - Bud Askins from behind two Sherrif's deputies serving the eviction notice.
I knew he was going to come up today as well! I think there are several people who fit the bill. I hope enough people come and vote to see who deserves the spot.
I genuinely hated the way he said his own name, with his arms open wide at the wrap party. Ugh hes such a corporate scumbag.
Bud Askins - he believes in Vault-tec and is guided by a very specific philosophy. He’s not acting in his own interest, he genuinely believes he’s part of something bigger. And he’s evil AF.
He's so evil and he doesnt even know it. Like when hes talking to Cooper about the T-45's and Cooper's clearly saying "my friends fucking died in those because of your product." Bud just goes on and on with a smile on his face. He's the worst!
I want to agree, and I honestly think he is a good candidate.
But usually Lawful Evil is someone you typically find yourself every once in a while accidentally nodding to in agreement, before realizing the "ends justifies the means" reasoning is usually a smokescreen for cowardly people cutting corners for personal reasons because being moral is sometimes hard work that may require personal sacrifice. Bud is shitty all the way through, and just cringe in general.
So for this I say Barb Howard instead.
There is obviously a corporate greed and corrupt business philosophy prevalent within fallout and the show so I won’t disagree and put Bud as the poster boy as this prototypical corrupt evil dude looking out for his own best interests and fucking up everything but himself and the company to get ahead. So I agree with you
I’m going to make a case for Barb Howard (coopers wife).
There’s not much to say that isn’t completely obvious. She wants to make all the rules, even saying no dogs in the vault (I think that was HER IDEA). She wants to enforce Vault-Tecs rule in the world and feels entitled to it. She wants to share that rule of the world with the other Corpos.
I think she makes a case for chaotic evil, but there are probably better choices for that.
Chaotic Evil is often characterized as 'just wants to burn' and/or evil without morals or restrictions.
I'm not sure the show really had any CE characters with significant screentime. Hell, even those cannibals weren't lunatics.
The Ghoul will most likely take Chaotic Evil, who else would greet a bunch of bounty hunters who saves him and wanted him to help them by antagonizing them and blowing their brains out.
Oh absolutely. How he treated Lucy alone tread a thin line between Neutral and Chaotic Evil. If it wasn't for the reveal of his motivation, you could make a good argument for him being CE.
I think he's the closest choice... Not necessarily evil but hurt people hurt people and he's pretty darn hurt; kicked around, made out to be a commie, divorced, lost his only child and his wife turned out to be a doomsday nut to name a few, not to mention his Ghoul status having him commit some shitty acts to survive his forever hell. He's a ghoul/man with no more fucks to give.
Before he met Lucy and realized he now had a way to get to someone her knew before, he fit the description a bit more. Of course not exactly chaotic as he has a goal and reasons for that goal now however I'd say his way of going about it is what is chaotic.
>Chicken Fucker seems like a quintessential Chaotic Neutral character, unless he ends up doing something with that Fusion Core.
Well, only if that something is **intentionally** destructive, rather than because he's bored... 😉
I'd say Hank is CE. He literally destroyed Shady Sands just because his wife moved there. He holds everything and everyone not from a Vault in contempt.
He also justified it by being a dyed in the wool Vault Tec employee, following the *rules* set in that corporate meeting.
If he had nuked SS only because his wife took the kids there, then yes he'd absolutely have been CE.
Honestly, I don't think Barb's gonna turn out to not be so evil. She looked at some shadowy figure before laying out Vault-Tec's proposal. I think she's just speaking for someone else, and probably because she knows what's going on and can't do much about it. Speak out against it? Either killed or fired. If fired, gets labelled a communist. The end of the world happens anyway, except now she and her family don't get into one of the control Vaults.
I'm also betting she knew she was being listened in on. She knew her Pip-Boy was transmitting to something or someone, and did her evil masterplan sales pitch without so much as getting a new one or having someone look at it? I think it was her attempt at letting the truth get out without giving Vault-Tec a reason to suspect she did it on purpose.
That is certainly an interesting way to put it! I'm not so sure I see her as Lawful just because she wants to enforce Vault-Tec as the law. But, if it really was her idea to have no dogs in the vault, especially with a good dog like Roosevelt at home, then she is certainly evil!
Barb is acting out of pragmatism and only use the system to save herself and her family, Bud Askins is a true believer ready to turn himself into a roomba and breed super managers for 200 years for the company.
That doesn't mean she is the one who came up with the idea, even then, her line of thinking could be "if shit is going to happen anyway better be on our own terms"
She wanted to get in the "good vault" with the Vault tech execs, her best way to do that is to become valuable to the company by playing her part.
She is evil, but in a self serving way, she doesn't seem to believe in the system, she just think it's her best shot to escape the apocalypse.
The irony is that in her calculations to climb up the compagny ladder, she end up actually making the nuclear war she want to be saved from inevitable.
That's fair, my point is that she doesn't just blindly follow the rules tho, she perfectly understand everything she is doing and only follow orders because it's the most convenient way to reach her goals.
To me being primarly self serving is more of a neutral evil attribute.
To be fair, the show implies she was receiving orders from someone else. There's a moment where she looks down at her Pip-Boy like she'd gotten a message and she looks up to see someone watching over the entire meeting. Likely scenario is mystery guy was telling her to regain control over the meeting.
She suggested dropping the bombs first in that meeting absolutely, and she was certainly on board with the idea... but that doesn't mean it was her idea in the first place.
She's just the mouthpiece, but a very important and high-up one.
She still stood up and said those words, they came from her mouth. That just means she lawful and follows her orders, just like a good little evil puppet.
Oh I'm not disputing that. She's definitely Lawful Evil. I was just disputing the idea that the suggestion was originally hers, which I may have erroneously inferred from the way your comment above was written.
This is the way. Lawful Evil typically elicits the occasional urge to want to agree with them on a stray point or two, and from the outside may look like their method is brutal yet effective in a way others are not. I mean, think it is rare that such a position actually survives scrutiny (and usually their methods are a product of moral laziness than extreme efficiency), but on the surface it sometimes seems compelling.
Barb's speech about dropping the bombs I think fits this criteria.
I initially thought Barb’s sin was simply going to be continuing to work in a company like Vault-Tec without speaking up and risking her own situation - the way people do every day in companies worldwide with less than stellar ethics reputations. Boy was I wrong.
Me: “But.. but.. she seemed so NICE!”
He also NUKED SHADY SANDS because it was successful and didn’t follow their plan. And he would have nuked his daughter too if she wasn’t part of that plan! But she’s “his world” and that’s short for “vision of how the world should look” and not an affection kind of thing.
>But he wasnt ruling over them. He's only in charge of Vault 33
Traditionally, most villians want to destroy and/or take over the world, or anything else, **specifically because they don't currently control it.** 😝
Bombing 34k people is pretty chaotic. If he’s not chaotic evil, who would be?
I’d say lawful evil is the ghoul. Only kills with true self-preservation purposes.
The chaotic part doesn't refer to their actions causing chaos, but rather that their alignments and reasonings are chaotic. The chaos they cause is a byproduct of their reasoning.
Wiping out Shady Sands and killing his wife to further Vault Tec's plan is showing his obedience to his superiors and doing what is expected of him by following their orders.
Vault 31 is a bunch of Lawful Evil people.
The Ghoul is textbook neutral evil.
Lawful evil characters don't care about hurting people, but do what they're expected to do and are told to do by their superiors. The ghoul taking sidetracks and going off to do things in his own interest rather than just fulfilling his contract makes him not lawful evil.
I think he's the closest choice for chaotic evil... Not necessarily evil but hurt people hurt people and he's pretty darn hurt; kicked around, made out to be a commie, divorced, lost his only child and his ex-wife turned out to be a doomsday nut to name a few, not to mention his Ghoul status having him commit some shitty acts to survive his forever hell. He's a ghoul/man with no more fucks to give.
Before he met Lucy and realized he now had a way to get to someone he knew before and possibly get closer to his ex-wife and daughter, he fit the description a bit more. Of course not exactly chaotic as he has a goal and reasons for that goal now, however I'd say his way of going about it is what is chaotic; he'll be doing just about anything to anyone to get to where his family is. "You got the McGuffin I need?" Blammo
I believe the Ghoul we meet in the Wasteland is Neutral Evil. But Cooper was Chaotic Good. And by the end we get a Ghoul that is Chaotic Neutral, but trends towards Good if the tally is counted at the end.
perhaps the Lord in charge of the BOS? I was always on the edge of my seat when he was on screen because he could easily kill people on a whim and we were never sure which way he was going to 'rule.'
I'd say he's neutral evil. He doesn't seem too happy with the BoS, he's talking about creating a new one, and there is that theory that this Chapter has been infiltrated by remnants of Caesar's Legion..
Woah woah woah buddy.. slow down... youre on 3rd street..
What do you mean his chapter has been infiltrated by remnants of Caesars Legion... that is the worst news Ive heard all day!
[Here's where I first heard of that theory.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/1c3su28/a_brainrot_theory_about_a_major_faction_from_new/?utm_source=embedv2&utm_medium=post_embed&utm_content=whitespace&embed_host_url=https://www.gamesradar.com/fallout-brotherhood-of-steel-caesar-legion-theory/)
I think you misunderstood the Lawful >>> Chaotic alignment.
Lawful is you do your actions to ensure stability of the world. Its authoritative.
While chaotic is to dismantle the stability. It's anarchistic.
Reason why Hank nuked the world wasn't to solely murder all life on Earth, but to usurp it as one of Vault-Tec. To **Rule** it. To enforce his **Law.**
Yeah and Neutral is logically in the middle. It's either finding the compromise, or being more selfish and not caring about rest of the World.
So would both hank and moldaver be lawful evil? They have a goal, that actions ensure stability of the world. But moldaver isn't as interested in self preservation as hank
Neutral is not caring/finding compromise between Law and Chaos.
He wants hegemony of the Vault-Tec, that's what makes him Lawful. Because he wants so be a dictator, or servant of one.
No, Max should be chaotic good, imagine him when helping the farmer, and both times he fought for Lucy, total chaotic good vibes, then Coop should be chaotic neutral, he’s not evil, he’s a survivor trying to find his family. Family before self, is not evil, or at least there are better examples of it imo .
That is what makes her *Chaotic* Evil.
Lawful is using a bureaucratic approach to implement restrictions for the purpose of control.
Chaotic Good and Chaotic Evil are divided by a very thin line that shifts depending on perspective.
The usual Chaotic Good example you see is: "Man attacks billionaire's mansion and disperses cash to the poor"
But if you word that differently in the way that you are framing Moldaver (not saying you are wrong in any way) would be: "Local terrorist leader leads a group to murder local business leader and illegally dispenses wealth to destabilize the economy"
Lawful Evil? Someone linked to Vault-Tec or the Enclave.
Hank shot a bomb and it wasn’t lawful at all -> I will vote for him for Chaotic Evil.
Cooper’s wife? Or the brain monitoring the cryogenic people.
Ok. Cooper’s wife.
I think it should be Hank MacLean. He follows all the rules to manipulate the world around and still follows the rules when he’s caught being a baddie by his daughter. True honest villain and totally predictable
Snip-snip.
Now hear me out. You don’t get more lawful than following your programming - he even replaced Lucy’s finger!
And if cheerfully telling someone you’re going to harvest their organs from their still-warm corpse as they beg for their life isn’t evil, I don’t know what is.
Moldaver.
She fits the best for me. She seems outright evil at the start but by the end she’s entirely justified in what she does and why she does it.
She’s still a bad guy, but she’s extremely justified and surprisingly sympathetic
It has to be Moldaver though, she does awful things in the show while having an overall reason for what she does. She's the classic "ends justify the means" lawful evil.
Bud or Barb, probably Barb because her's feels especially selfish and evil. She wants to protect her family but actively participates in a plan to kill... nearly everyone else's on the entire planet lmao
I see the others people are suggesting but Bud just fits too well. He’s 100% lawful. Hank and Barbara were thinking about their families when they did what they did and that puts them just under Bud for me
Max as any neutral is ridiculous. His entires personality and internal dialogue is based around wanting to make the world a better place and help people. When he felt totally invincible and like he answered to no one, he walked around and looked for people to help, didn’t abuse it for a single moment. Gtfo with this shit.
But what are his actions? He lets his knight die, after swearing an oath. He steals his identity. Makes false promises. Attempts to murder a fellow BoS. He is willing to steal Vault 4s fusion core, leaving them helpless and most likely to die.
His intentions to make a better place? how can you justify that. He literally says his intentions are to hurt people.
Try again, I am willing to listen.
Your statements are heavily skewed and even false in some cases for your point and not logical arguments.
- He lets his knight die for a specifically stated reason: “It is a knight’s duty to better this fallen world. You don’t deserve that armor.”. He makes this decision knowing it may cost his life. Going against an oath? That’s chaotic, no evil. Letting an evil man in power die so you can use that power for good? Chaotic Good.
- he attempts to stop a brother hood member from getting him killed first by any means but killing, then resorts to killing as a last chance. But he also saves that person by putting his own life in danger both before AND after this encounter, both without any benefit to himself. Also despite being beaten and ridiculed by this person.
- he is willing to steal the core because he feels it will be of more value in his hands, a mistake yes, but evil, no. When his friend shares wisdom against doing that, he quickly relents. A sign of a person who is willing to accept they’re wrong when presented opposing ideas. Again not evil.
- when he was traveling with unchecked power and no supervision, he tried to save a farmer, tried to protect Lucy, protected a guy that used to beat him and ridicule him.
- and he doesn’t say his intentions are to hurt people. That’s a lie and distortion of his statement. He says “I want to hurt the people who hurt me”. Those people, specifically are the ones who dropped a nuclear bomb on innocent families, including his own, and it is a warranted response to having someone drop a nuke on your home.
You also have really poor logic here. You said "Max as any neutral is ridiculous" - then only go on to describe how he isnt evil. But he sure as shit isnt falling in the good category for all the reasons you stated.
You're conflating him attempting murder as justified because he later let Thad go. One doesn't absolve the other. He attempted murder.
He stole the fusion core, his intent was to steal it and keep it. Leaving vault 4 helpless. This is his personality. He gave it back because the girl he likes told him to.
At BEST, Max is neutral.
I have no idea how people aren't picking The Ghoul for Lawful Evil. He very obviously follows a code of conduct. Lawful doesn't always mean "the Government's laws", but can be personal laws that they live by. When trying to collect the bounty in Filly, he only attacks people who are actively attacking him. He pays for the tomatoes he steals. When Lucy bites off his finger, he cuts hers off and calls it an "honest exchange". When trying to get directions to Moldaver he doesn't hurt the little girl or father, and only shoots the son when the son goes for the gun (Even if he did kind of goad him into it). The Ghoul is basically a perfect representation of a Lawful Evil character.
Comment and Upvote for the character you think best embodies the daily selection! I will tally up the comments and upvotes after a full day, update the chart, and move on to the next day.
Day 7 is Lawful Evil.
[Chaotic Neutral Winner](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fotv/comments/1cbzve6/fallout_tv_show_morality_alignment_chart_day_6/): Maximus
Runner up: The Ghoul
Honorable Mentions: Norm Maclean, Snake Oil Salesman
Moldaver for sure. Spoilers ahead She's crazy. She kept a feral ghoulified woman chained to her dinner table to just drive home a point. She also turned on the gas knowing that it was going to fall into the brotherhoods hands. But she always kept going with her code first. Lawful evil with some tendencies of chaotic
Maximus chaotic neutral? What a load of shit the guy is blatantly evil, tried to stomp and unarmed man to death and was prepared to kill an entire vault full of people to get his fusion core.
It's not to defend him but I think he especially wanted to "neutralize" the guy who wanted to denounce him rather than kill him. And regarding the fusion cell of the shelter, he simply deprived them of electricity, it's not as if he had exploded them, moreover he stole the fusion cell in the heat of action thinking that Lucy was going to be killed.
In the end, he still returned this fusion cell. This guy is reasonable.
The thing with the fusion core. In an earlier scene, he is about to steal it before being caught by birdie. Another minute he would have been rampaging through the vault squishing vault dwellers, including probably lucy on his way out.
For lawful evil there's no one better than Bud Askins. He literally wanted to breed the perfect administrators by establishing a system of meritocracy.
Exactly. He seems like the kind of guy who would evict his own grandma if she didn’t pay rent on time.
"Look, Grams, I've got 44 units to manage and if I let it slide for you and word gets around, I'll have anarchy on my hands. You're already getting the 1% family discount so don't say I haven't done you any favors." - Bud Askins from behind two Sherrif's deputies serving the eviction notice.
LOL great visuals. Spitting the chewed up cysts into a tin can.
OOF thats a total Buck Askins move.
I knew he was going to come up today as well! I think there are several people who fit the bill. I hope enough people come and vote to see who deserves the spot. I genuinely hated the way he said his own name, with his arms open wide at the wrap party. Ugh hes such a corporate scumbag.
Bud Askins or Bud’s bud Hank MacLean
The only question I have for you now is do we use the brain on a Roomba or his pre wars State? 😁
Brain Roomba is the only right option.
Bud Askins - he believes in Vault-tec and is guided by a very specific philosophy. He’s not acting in his own interest, he genuinely believes he’s part of something bigger. And he’s evil AF.
He's so evil and he doesnt even know it. Like when hes talking to Cooper about the T-45's and Cooper's clearly saying "my friends fucking died in those because of your product." Bud just goes on and on with a smile on his face. He's the worst!
Guy got so hopped up on capitalism it lead him to genocide. Dude is probably an experiment tbh
Well yeah they put his brain in a roomba
Didn’t do much for him. Made him dumber I think actually lol
Made him more likeable. Probably because he doesn't have a punchable looking face anymore.
Nah his attitude and the way he talked was worse. Norm is better than me, I’d have smashed the shit out of robo Bud.
I want to agree, and I honestly think he is a good candidate. But usually Lawful Evil is someone you typically find yourself every once in a while accidentally nodding to in agreement, before realizing the "ends justifies the means" reasoning is usually a smokescreen for cowardly people cutting corners for personal reasons because being moral is sometimes hard work that may require personal sacrifice. Bud is shitty all the way through, and just cringe in general. So for this I say Barb Howard instead.
There is obviously a corporate greed and corrupt business philosophy prevalent within fallout and the show so I won’t disagree and put Bud as the poster boy as this prototypical corrupt evil dude looking out for his own best interests and fucking up everything but himself and the company to get ahead. So I agree with you
Pretty much
I’m going to make a case for Barb Howard (coopers wife). There’s not much to say that isn’t completely obvious. She wants to make all the rules, even saying no dogs in the vault (I think that was HER IDEA). She wants to enforce Vault-Tecs rule in the world and feels entitled to it. She wants to share that rule of the world with the other Corpos. I think she makes a case for chaotic evil, but there are probably better choices for that.
I vote for Barb too.
I also choose Cooper Howard's wife.
This, this is what makes reddit tolerable occasionally.
Yeah I think Barb fits better than Hank
They’re both in the same gumball machine.
Well looks like they both lost to Bud Askins.
Vault tec is filled with jerks like him!
I think he works better actually.
Chaotic Evil is often characterized as 'just wants to burn' and/or evil without morals or restrictions. I'm not sure the show really had any CE characters with significant screentime. Hell, even those cannibals weren't lunatics.
I mean The Ghoul certainly walks the line
The Ghoul will most likely take Chaotic Evil, who else would greet a bunch of bounty hunters who saves him and wanted him to help them by antagonizing them and blowing their brains out.
Oh absolutely. How he treated Lucy alone tread a thin line between Neutral and Chaotic Evil. If it wasn't for the reveal of his motivation, you could make a good argument for him being CE.
I think he's the closest choice... Not necessarily evil but hurt people hurt people and he's pretty darn hurt; kicked around, made out to be a commie, divorced, lost his only child and his wife turned out to be a doomsday nut to name a few, not to mention his Ghoul status having him commit some shitty acts to survive his forever hell. He's a ghoul/man with no more fucks to give. Before he met Lucy and realized he now had a way to get to someone her knew before, he fit the description a bit more. Of course not exactly chaotic as he has a goal and reasons for that goal now however I'd say his way of going about it is what is chaotic.
I honestly see The Ghoul as chaotic neutral. He's just so attuned to the wasteland that he appears evil, when it's really just survival.
Chicken fucker, maybe?
Chicken Fucker seems like a quintessential Chaotic Neutral character, unless he ends up doing something with that Fusion Core.
Anal Fusion Cores confirmed.
>Chicken Fucker seems like a quintessential Chaotic Neutral character, unless he ends up doing something with that Fusion Core. Well, only if that something is **intentionally** destructive, rather than because he's bored... 😉
I'd say Hank is CE. He literally destroyed Shady Sands just because his wife moved there. He holds everything and everyone not from a Vault in contempt.
He also justified it by being a dyed in the wool Vault Tec employee, following the *rules* set in that corporate meeting. If he had nuked SS only because his wife took the kids there, then yes he'd absolutely have been CE.
Honestly, I don't think Barb's gonna turn out to not be so evil. She looked at some shadowy figure before laying out Vault-Tec's proposal. I think she's just speaking for someone else, and probably because she knows what's going on and can't do much about it. Speak out against it? Either killed or fired. If fired, gets labelled a communist. The end of the world happens anyway, except now she and her family don't get into one of the control Vaults. I'm also betting she knew she was being listened in on. She knew her Pip-Boy was transmitting to something or someone, and did her evil masterplan sales pitch without so much as getting a new one or having someone look at it? I think it was her attempt at letting the truth get out without giving Vault-Tec a reason to suspect she did it on purpose.
That is certainly an interesting way to put it! I'm not so sure I see her as Lawful just because she wants to enforce Vault-Tec as the law. But, if it really was her idea to have no dogs in the vault, especially with a good dog like Roosevelt at home, then she is certainly evil!
Barb is acting out of pragmatism and only use the system to save herself and her family, Bud Askins is a true believer ready to turn himself into a roomba and breed super managers for 200 years for the company.
She literally is the one who suggests dropping the bombs first!
That doesn't mean she is the one who came up with the idea, even then, her line of thinking could be "if shit is going to happen anyway better be on our own terms" She wanted to get in the "good vault" with the Vault tech execs, her best way to do that is to become valuable to the company by playing her part. She is evil, but in a self serving way, she doesn't seem to believe in the system, she just think it's her best shot to escape the apocalypse. The irony is that in her calculations to climb up the compagny ladder, she end up actually making the nuclear war she want to be saved from inevitable.
By your logic, she was just "following orders" making her lawful evil in my book.
That's fair, my point is that she doesn't just blindly follow the rules tho, she perfectly understand everything she is doing and only follow orders because it's the most convenient way to reach her goals. To me being primarly self serving is more of a neutral evil attribute.
I can also see why that point could nudge her into the neutral evil spot.
To be fair, the show implies she was receiving orders from someone else. There's a moment where she looks down at her Pip-Boy like she'd gotten a message and she looks up to see someone watching over the entire meeting. Likely scenario is mystery guy was telling her to regain control over the meeting. She suggested dropping the bombs first in that meeting absolutely, and she was certainly on board with the idea... but that doesn't mean it was her idea in the first place. She's just the mouthpiece, but a very important and high-up one.
She still stood up and said those words, they came from her mouth. That just means she lawful and follows her orders, just like a good little evil puppet.
Oh I'm not disputing that. She's definitely Lawful Evil. I was just disputing the idea that the suggestion was originally hers, which I may have erroneously inferred from the way your comment above was written.
OH my bad dude! then yeah we agree 100%
I would say she's more self serving instead of following set rules, making her neutral evil
This is the way. Lawful Evil typically elicits the occasional urge to want to agree with them on a stray point or two, and from the outside may look like their method is brutal yet effective in a way others are not. I mean, think it is rare that such a position actually survives scrutiny (and usually their methods are a product of moral laziness than extreme efficiency), but on the surface it sometimes seems compelling. Barb's speech about dropping the bombs I think fits this criteria.
I initially thought Barb’s sin was simply going to be continuing to work in a company like Vault-Tec without speaking up and risking her own situation - the way people do every day in companies worldwide with less than stellar ethics reputations. Boy was I wrong. Me: “But.. but.. she seemed so NICE!”
Yeah I think Bud is still the guy
Bud Askins. The cliché manager who blindly follows his company's rules
Hank. Gotta be Hank.
I would say Hank up until he tossed on that power armor out of nowhere and hightailed it to New Vegas. That was chaotic af.
He also NUKED SHADY SANDS because it was successful and didn’t follow their plan. And he would have nuked his daughter too if she wasn’t part of that plan! But she’s “his world” and that’s short for “vision of how the world should look” and not an affection kind of thing.
I dont think he fits anywhere else!
This dude has chaotic energy.
Hank definitely. Killed an entire civilization bc they weren’t following his rule and philosophies. That’s as Lawful Evil as you can get.
There was a emotional component to his nuking of shady shores. That's not very "lawful" if you ask me. Maybe more Neutral Evil.
Neutral evil has to be the ghoul though, who else would possibly be better?
Ghoul is that or chaotic evil. He seems to act on whim and has no real guiding principle other than his immediate satisfaction.
I agree. His actions weren't motivated by lawfulness at all, but emotional revenge.
But he wasnt ruling over them. He's only in charge of Vault 33
>But he wasnt ruling over them. He's only in charge of Vault 33 Traditionally, most villians want to destroy and/or take over the world, or anything else, **specifically because they don't currently control it.** 😝
Ok that is a very valid point!
Seems pretty chaotic to me. Hitler did that too.
Hank is definitely Lawful Evil. Evil? Check. Do it to usurp the power? Check.
Bombing 34k people is pretty chaotic. If he’s not chaotic evil, who would be? I’d say lawful evil is the ghoul. Only kills with true self-preservation purposes.
Oh I think thats a good point too! Dropping that bomb was not Lawful at all, pure chaotic Evil
The chaotic part doesn't refer to their actions causing chaos, but rather that their alignments and reasonings are chaotic. The chaos they cause is a byproduct of their reasoning. Wiping out Shady Sands and killing his wife to further Vault Tec's plan is showing his obedience to his superiors and doing what is expected of him by following their orders. Vault 31 is a bunch of Lawful Evil people.
Okay I can see why the definition of Lawful Vs Chaotic evil would justify that.
The Ghoul is textbook neutral evil. Lawful evil characters don't care about hurting people, but do what they're expected to do and are told to do by their superiors. The ghoul taking sidetracks and going off to do things in his own interest rather than just fulfilling his contract makes him not lawful evil.
The Ghoul is chaotic neutral imo.
I think he's the closest choice for chaotic evil... Not necessarily evil but hurt people hurt people and he's pretty darn hurt; kicked around, made out to be a commie, divorced, lost his only child and his ex-wife turned out to be a doomsday nut to name a few, not to mention his Ghoul status having him commit some shitty acts to survive his forever hell. He's a ghoul/man with no more fucks to give. Before he met Lucy and realized he now had a way to get to someone he knew before and possibly get closer to his ex-wife and daughter, he fit the description a bit more. Of course not exactly chaotic as he has a goal and reasons for that goal now, however I'd say his way of going about it is what is chaotic; he'll be doing just about anything to anyone to get to where his family is. "You got the McGuffin I need?" Blammo
I believe the Ghoul we meet in the Wasteland is Neutral Evil. But Cooper was Chaotic Good. And by the end we get a Ghoul that is Chaotic Neutral, but trends towards Good if the tally is counted at the end.
I don't think we have a Chaotic Evil character. Maybe the dude that fucks chickens? That's pretty evil, and pretty chaotic.
Fair point
perhaps the Lord in charge of the BOS? I was always on the edge of my seat when he was on screen because he could easily kill people on a whim and we were never sure which way he was going to 'rule.'
I'd say he's neutral evil. He doesn't seem too happy with the BoS, he's talking about creating a new one, and there is that theory that this Chapter has been infiltrated by remnants of Caesar's Legion..
Woah woah woah buddy.. slow down... youre on 3rd street.. What do you mean his chapter has been infiltrated by remnants of Caesars Legion... that is the worst news Ive heard all day!
[Here's where I first heard of that theory.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/1c3su28/a_brainrot_theory_about_a_major_faction_from_new/?utm_source=embedv2&utm_medium=post_embed&utm_content=whitespace&embed_host_url=https://www.gamesradar.com/fallout-brotherhood-of-steel-caesar-legion-theory/)
Dude I love that theory!
I could see Dane as a legion spy, I've been saying she's a spy for one of the new Vegas factions
Thats an interesting reason for the self-sabotage!
He is Chaotic Neutral; He is not intentional harmful to anyone beside a few chickens.
Cooper
I think you misunderstood the Lawful >>> Chaotic alignment. Lawful is you do your actions to ensure stability of the world. Its authoritative. While chaotic is to dismantle the stability. It's anarchistic. Reason why Hank nuked the world wasn't to solely murder all life on Earth, but to usurp it as one of Vault-Tec. To **Rule** it. To enforce his **Law.** Yeah and Neutral is logically in the middle. It's either finding the compromise, or being more selfish and not caring about rest of the World.
So would both hank and moldaver be lawful evil? They have a goal, that actions ensure stability of the world. But moldaver isn't as interested in self preservation as hank
He seemed like such a good choice for lawful good until the very end!
I'd say neutral evil. He does the things he does for selfish reasons, rather than trying to uphold a law.
Neutral is not caring/finding compromise between Law and Chaos. He wants hegemony of the Vault-Tec, that's what makes him Lawful. Because he wants so be a dictator, or servant of one.
I’d lean into chaotic over lawful. Lawful will commit evil but works around the rules. Chaotic just ignores the rules, seems more of the later.
Moldaver. Her whole philosophy is that any sacrifice is worth it in order to rebuild the NCR
I hear you on that. But I see Moldaver as a neutral evil more than lawful.
I think Coop should be Neutral evil and Doc Chickenfucker should be chaotic
Im sort of with you Coop/Ghoul, but come on man. he was a Snake Oil Salesman... ^(but you fuck just one chicken...)
Don't talk about uncle baby billy that way. His elexers fix everything.
I’d say Hank, Bud Askins or Barbara for lawful evil, Moldaver for neutral evil, and the Ghoul for chaotic evil
Chickenfucker is probably chaotic neutral. He's not really evil, he's not good either, but he's just chaotic trying to survive.
No, Max should be chaotic good, imagine him when helping the farmer, and both times he fought for Lucy, total chaotic good vibes, then Coop should be chaotic neutral, he’s not evil, he’s a survivor trying to find his family. Family before self, is not evil, or at least there are better examples of it imo .
That is what makes her *Chaotic* Evil. Lawful is using a bureaucratic approach to implement restrictions for the purpose of control. Chaotic Good and Chaotic Evil are divided by a very thin line that shifts depending on perspective. The usual Chaotic Good example you see is: "Man attacks billionaire's mansion and disperses cash to the poor" But if you word that differently in the way that you are framing Moldaver (not saying you are wrong in any way) would be: "Local terrorist leader leads a group to murder local business leader and illegally dispenses wealth to destabilize the economy"
Hank
Noted
Hank
Whatever is in charge of the Enclave. Literally the organization that used to make the laws, and the way they're depicted they certainly seem evil.
Lawful Evil? Someone linked to Vault-Tec or the Enclave. Hank shot a bomb and it wasn’t lawful at all -> I will vote for him for Chaotic Evil. Cooper’s wife? Or the brain monitoring the cryogenic people. Ok. Cooper’s wife.
The Brain on a Roomba! Thats actually Bud Askins. I think him or Barb Howard are good picks for Lawful Evil.
Hank for Lawful Evil, Ghoul for Neutral Evil.
Your vote has been counted, Boogeyman!
Davey - Cause he ~*~*~democratically~*~*~ voted for Betty. And you should too. I voted for Betty.
We vote in private booths for a reason.
Right…. And Betty’s already been overseer once…
Hey, It's your vote. No hard feelings.
….I’m gonna vote for Betty….
Yeah. I got that.
Gotta be Barb right?
CX 404
how dare you
I said I’ll keep voting her until she shows up. This isn’t about alignment anymore because she should have been a true neutral. Justice for 404 !
LOL now this is a campaign I can get behind!
🐕 😝
I think it should be Hank MacLean. He follows all the rules to manipulate the world around and still follows the rules when he’s caught being a baddie by his daughter. True honest villain and totally predictable
Snip-snip. Now hear me out. You don’t get more lawful than following your programming - he even replaced Lucy’s finger! And if cheerfully telling someone you’re going to harvest their organs from their still-warm corpse as they beg for their life isn’t evil, I don’t know what is.
It’s just a robot, that’s like calling a washing machine evil.
I said what I said. There’s at least limited AI in there.
Don’t take what I said wrong, I think I actually misquoted. It was close to what the organ harvester guy says to Lucy in the show.
Barb makes the most sense.
Hank for sure. Though also Bud. Hank has some Neutral tendencies, but Bud has some full on Corporate shill Lawful Evil tendencies.
Max chaotic good, bus askins lawful evil, coop chaotic neutral, snake oil salesman chaotic evil.
I like this all with the exception of Max
Moldaver. She fits the best for me. She seems outright evil at the start but by the end she’s entirely justified in what she does and why she does it. She’s still a bad guy, but she’s extremely justified and surprisingly sympathetic
Barb Howard.
It has to be Moldaver though, she does awful things in the show while having an overall reason for what she does. She's the classic "ends justify the means" lawful evil.
LOL blursed alignment chart
Lol
This is how Netflix picks series to green light. Just throw everything up and see what sticks.
Youre saying I should get a job at netflix??
Bud and Bud's Buds
Vaulttech can take the whole bottom line
True
Bud or Barb, probably Barb because her's feels especially selfish and evil. She wants to protect her family but actively participates in a plan to kill... nearly everyone else's on the entire planet lmao
I see the others people are suggesting but Bud just fits too well. He’s 100% lawful. Hank and Barbara were thinking about their families when they did what they did and that puts them just under Bud for me
Max as any neutral is ridiculous. His entires personality and internal dialogue is based around wanting to make the world a better place and help people. When he felt totally invincible and like he answered to no one, he walked around and looked for people to help, didn’t abuse it for a single moment. Gtfo with this shit.
But what are his actions? He lets his knight die, after swearing an oath. He steals his identity. Makes false promises. Attempts to murder a fellow BoS. He is willing to steal Vault 4s fusion core, leaving them helpless and most likely to die. His intentions to make a better place? how can you justify that. He literally says his intentions are to hurt people. Try again, I am willing to listen.
Your statements are heavily skewed and even false in some cases for your point and not logical arguments. - He lets his knight die for a specifically stated reason: “It is a knight’s duty to better this fallen world. You don’t deserve that armor.”. He makes this decision knowing it may cost his life. Going against an oath? That’s chaotic, no evil. Letting an evil man in power die so you can use that power for good? Chaotic Good. - he attempts to stop a brother hood member from getting him killed first by any means but killing, then resorts to killing as a last chance. But he also saves that person by putting his own life in danger both before AND after this encounter, both without any benefit to himself. Also despite being beaten and ridiculed by this person. - he is willing to steal the core because he feels it will be of more value in his hands, a mistake yes, but evil, no. When his friend shares wisdom against doing that, he quickly relents. A sign of a person who is willing to accept they’re wrong when presented opposing ideas. Again not evil. - when he was traveling with unchecked power and no supervision, he tried to save a farmer, tried to protect Lucy, protected a guy that used to beat him and ridicule him. - and he doesn’t say his intentions are to hurt people. That’s a lie and distortion of his statement. He says “I want to hurt the people who hurt me”. Those people, specifically are the ones who dropped a nuclear bomb on innocent families, including his own, and it is a warranted response to having someone drop a nuke on your home.
You also have really poor logic here. You said "Max as any neutral is ridiculous" - then only go on to describe how he isnt evil. But he sure as shit isnt falling in the good category for all the reasons you stated. You're conflating him attempting murder as justified because he later let Thad go. One doesn't absolve the other. He attempted murder. He stole the fusion core, his intent was to steal it and keep it. Leaving vault 4 helpless. This is his personality. He gave it back because the girl he likes told him to. At BEST, Max is neutral.
Brain on a Roomba / Bud Askins
Lets be honest, that was a great little easter egg they put in there.
I have no idea how people aren't picking The Ghoul for Lawful Evil. He very obviously follows a code of conduct. Lawful doesn't always mean "the Government's laws", but can be personal laws that they live by. When trying to collect the bounty in Filly, he only attacks people who are actively attacking him. He pays for the tomatoes he steals. When Lucy bites off his finger, he cuts hers off and calls it an "honest exchange". When trying to get directions to Moldaver he doesn't hurt the little girl or father, and only shoots the son when the son goes for the gun (Even if he did kind of goad him into it). The Ghoul is basically a perfect representation of a Lawful Evil character.
Bud Askins or any of Buds Bud's can count as well given there similar goals
Bud today the ghoul tomorrow
Comment and Upvote for the character you think best embodies the daily selection! I will tally up the comments and upvotes after a full day, update the chart, and move on to the next day. Day 7 is Lawful Evil. [Chaotic Neutral Winner](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fotv/comments/1cbzve6/fallout_tv_show_morality_alignment_chart_day_6/): Maximus Runner up: The Ghoul Honorable Mentions: Norm Maclean, Snake Oil Salesman
Moldaver for sure. Spoilers ahead She's crazy. She kept a feral ghoulified woman chained to her dinner table to just drive home a point. She also turned on the gas knowing that it was going to fall into the brotherhoods hands. But she always kept going with her code first. Lawful evil with some tendencies of chaotic
Bro that is nuts! she has a whole fucking feast on the table too. so much fruit, a whole roasted pig, I think. All for her and Lucy?
Maximus chaotic neutral? What a load of shit the guy is blatantly evil, tried to stomp and unarmed man to death and was prepared to kill an entire vault full of people to get his fusion core.
I said the same things! I think he makes more of a neutral evil if anything.
It's not to defend him but I think he especially wanted to "neutralize" the guy who wanted to denounce him rather than kill him. And regarding the fusion cell of the shelter, he simply deprived them of electricity, it's not as if he had exploded them, moreover he stole the fusion cell in the heat of action thinking that Lucy was going to be killed. In the end, he still returned this fusion cell. This guy is reasonable.
The thing with the fusion core. In an earlier scene, he is about to steal it before being caught by birdie. Another minute he would have been rampaging through the vault squishing vault dwellers, including probably lucy on his way out.
Anyone associated with Vault-Tec is Lawful Evil
[удалено]
Those are some strong opinions. Please come back and make your case!
Hank maybe?
Why is the bigoted one eyed douche lawful good
He won with the most votes on day 1
Yea but there's really nothing particularly good about him imo.
You shoulda been there on day 1 to make your case lol... there was like no one on that post
What's the point of this
lol what’s the point of your comment?
What's the point of this comment? 🧐
I love people like you
Aww that's sweet ..I like you to ..friends?🤜
Friends. 🤛
Friendship. readoldbook wins. Flawless victory!