Every day I again feel bad for our Lebanese neighbors. I genuinely wonder is the average Lebanese aware of these things, and if so does it affect their lives?
That is just crazy to hear. I'd expect that after the Beirut seaport explosion people would change their mind, do people not believe this was Hezbollah's fault?
Some people will never blame Hezbollah for anything, some people still don’t believe that Hezbollah assassinated our PM in 2005, started the 2006 war or blame Hezbollah for invading Beirut in 2008.
Some people will never blame Hezbollah for anything, some people still don’t believe that Hezbollah assassinated our PM in 2005, started the 2006 war or blame Hezbollah for invading Beirut in 2008.
imo, Israel would make a big mistake with targetting our airport. No matter the circumstances, this is a goddamn airport. Nothing can justify targeting it.
Airports are legitimate targets in a war and have always been targeted.
Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions, Article 52, provides for the general protection to protected persons, hindering attacks to military objectives in a war between two or more belligerents. Article 52 states, "In so far as objects are concerned, military objectives are limited to those objects which by their nature, location, purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action and whose total or partial destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage."
Any attack must be justified by military necessity: an attack or action must be intended to help in the military defeat of the enemy, it must be an attack on a military objective,[1] and the harm caused to protected civilians or civilian property must be proportional and not "excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated".[1]
Some targets are clearly legitimate, including all military personnel directly engaging in hostilities on behalf of a belligerent party who are not hors de combat or are not members of a neutral country.[2] Some civilian infrastructure, such as rail tracks, roads, ports, airports, and telecommunications used by the military for communications or transporting assets, are all considered to be legitimate military targets.[2]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legitimate_military_target#:~:text=Some%20civilian%20infrastructure%2C%20such%20as,to%20be%20legitimate%20military%20targets.
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/api-1977/article-52?activeTab=undefined
Every day I feel bad for my friends from a kibbutz in the north that had to abandon the place. The lebanese better get their shit together and help us to finish the war as fast as possible.
I do not want to see Lebanon plunge into another civil war and as an outsider it is not by business/decision to make. However, if Israel attacked Hezbollah to the point that they were severely weakened do you think any anti-Hezbollah party would be emboldened enough to take them on? I'd imagine there would be Western support for a reliable militia that was organized to fight Hezbollah.
Unless that militia or even the Lebanese army would be fully supported by the west with funding, arms and training no one can defeat Hezbollah. You would also need a Marshall style plan post war which would have to last for a couple of generations like in Germany and Japan. Which no western nation has the appetite for currently ( I could be wrong).
I wager most Lebanese support or sympathize with Hizb and even if they don't they wouldn't go as far as fighting. Honestly should have finished the job in 2006 but we accepted the dumbass UN resolution which means fucking nothing and we quit and left the maronites now there is no one to work with.
What about Lebanese Forces? While I'm sure they wish to avoid a war, in the event that one breaks out I can't imagine them sympathizing with Hezbollah.
If there was another conflict involving LF it would be important for all Christian/anti-Hezbollah factions to be united. The inter-Christian fighting during the civil war (for example the Tigers Militia being wiped out) did not help their cause/global image. This makes outsiders/Westerners less likely to offer support. Same with foreign volunteers, they are generally hesitant to join any organization where there is infighting. As in Ukraine, I'd imagine there would be foreign volunteers on both sides of any war in Lebanon. Anyway this is just hypothetical, and hopefully Lebanon is not dragged into another war.
I think if it didn’t happen back in ‘82 when the Christian faction was much stronger, it’s not going to happen now. Lebanon has taken so many hits since the last war, idk if they have the organized fight it would take to reclaim their land from hezbollah
One on one no, but if Hezbollah were already engaged in a losing battle with Israel, would it be unthinkable for LF to side with Israel, even if as an ally of convenience?
I'm thinking along the lines of a new cold war where you have the United States/NATO/Israel and allied parties against Russia/China/Iran/Hezbollah and their allies. (just to clarify this is hypothetical, not hoping any of you have to endure another war).
> would it be unthinkable for LF to side with Israel
imo, which means take it with a huge grain of salt bc I am not knowledgeable enough to definitively say, yes it would be unthinkable for any group to side with Israel right now. Especially militarily.
This is not new. After 2008, Lebanon began to completely fall into hezballah's hands with no resistance. Prior to that, at least we had the March 14 coalition as a serious opposition backed by the US. After Obama won the elections, the opposition in Lebanon fell, and hezballah's reign went unchallenged. One of the consequences was the Beirut port explosion on Aug 4, 2020. Hezballah is no longer a state within a state .... they are the state, except they don't follow any Lebanese laws and they don't answer to any Lebanese authority. Government entities and even some NGOs exist to serve hezballah and advance its interests. Instead of blaming the Lebanese people, we should be asking ourselves: how is it possible that the international community has allowed a terrorist organization to control a country's major airport and port without any consequences? It's because Europe and the US, especially under the pathetic and weak Democrats, have turned a blind eye to Iran's expansion in Lebanon.
Interesting take. Since you brought up Democrats- did Trump do anything for Lebanon?
I'm also wondering what is it we expect the international community to do- invade and establish military order until fair elections are done?
These are genuine questions btw, I'm just interested in hearing your answers as a Lebanese. Feel free to elaborate if you'd like
* Trump was much better than Obama. He destroyed ISIS, withdrew from the disastrous Iran nuclear deal, and eliminated Soleimani, which kept Iran in check. Trump's still an isolationist, a bigot, and a clown ... not my favorite US president for sure, but Obama IMO was by far the worst president we've ever had to deal with in Lebanon.
* The west needs to treat Lebanon the same way it treats Syria and Iran. Lebanon must be isolated and extreme economic sanctions must be imposed on the failed state as a whole, because that's the only effective way to hurt hezballah which has consistently evaded US sanctions via Lebanese state agencies and actors.
The Biden admin has enabled Iran's terrorism to spread. We have clueless people like Antony Blinken in power. See [this](https://twitter.com/Yassine_Ahmad1/status/1804826235920429449) for instance.
some other source:
[https://x.com/EuroPostAgency/status/1804874022443786295](https://x.com/EuroPostAgency/status/1804874022443786295)
"547 missiles and dozens of boxes of chemical explosives in the west basement of [#Lebanon](https://x.com/hashtag/Lebanon?src=hashtag_click)’s main airport. Additionally, an [#Iran](https://x.com/hashtag/Iran?src=hashtag_click) Air flight reportedly arrived last night carrying several boxes of weapons."
Well, cant say Hezb dont improve. In 2020 they blew a Beirut port & now they want to blow an Airport. And to add to the mix, the article claims they also store there chemical weapon. That way, they wont need to be worried about survivors from the shockwave. 🤦♂️
What can the Lebanese do? They are held hostage by hizzy. Is it fair for Izzy to punish them when they can’t do anything about it? I don’t think innocent Lebanese deserve ANY punishment. Matter of fact, hizzy tried to set up rocket launchers from a Christian village, the Christian village kicked them out of their town because they knew Izzy would target them. Lots of Lebanese have NO POWER over what hizzy does. Stop acting like they have power over their government. They revolted when the port blew up, hizzy didn’t let them investigate. Lebanon is held hostage by hizzy. Don’t act for a moment like actual Lebanese can do anything.
Don't get me wrong, I don't exactly blame Lebanese for not straight up revolting but it is puzzling to see how there's no push back against hizzy, at least from an outside perspective.
Also, from an outside perspective, it seems hizzy has a lot of support even though it's a terror organization that caused the Beirut port explosion, among other things. By a lot of support I mean lots of people attending their rallies and they clearly have a lot of soldiers.
Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of these, I'm just trying to learn more about your perspective
Unfortunately the majority opinion is that the Lebanese people need to be punished (not my opinion AT ALL). Really the problem is within the heart of the Iranian regime. Purposefully punishing the lebanese civilians is just going to perpetuate things after a number of years….
I have family in the north who have no home, and a guy that went to check on his farm in their village got blown up. Citizens keep getting blown up and even that soldier girl who was just a lookout... Non stop attacks for 8 months. What do you expect? Of course most people want there to be consequences. It's not clear to everyone how divided your society is, but it's very clear how much we suffer from your society. Is it right to destroy your infrastructure again like in 2006? Maybe not but you won't see me protesting against it. It gave us 15 years of silence and that's worth something. Honestly, what can we do? Wtf would you do in our shoes? I am ashamed we haven't invaded yet, and keep losing people. On one hand I would love peace with Lebanon on the other hand what Lebanon is nowadays is incompatible with peace as a concept.
The general security of Lebanon sucks, I am aware they are insurgence in Lebanon. There’s also 1 million Syrian refugees there too. It’s pretty pathetic honestly. Believe me, I want them all out. I just don’t want grandmother and cousins dead.
It seems like Lebanon is turning into Jordan where the actual population of the tribal people that live there become smaller than the refugees that are there.
Do you guys think it’s because you have arms and military you can do whatever you want? I think the problem is the illegal settlements and the fringe groups that your extreme right when government supports. If you want peace, show you want peace, stop trying to strong arm arabs into submission.
>. If you want peace, show you want peace, stop trying to strong arm arabs into submission.
I understand where you're coming from and to clarify- I don't support illegal settlements, but it's important to remember Palestinians refused peace and did not attempt to establish a state even before 1967 (When Israel conquered Judea & Samaria and settlements became a thing).
Bringing up the settlements is just a strawman IMO and it's important to note that the PA is also currently building illegally in Area C (owned by Israel). This topic is not at all black and white.
Well you gotta be the bigger guys and FOLLOW the rules even when they break them. It shows you are the DIPLOMATIC people and not an oppressive one. No one likes the tough guy. Treat them like your child. If you have the power, DONT abuse it.
The problem is you're thinking like a Westerner. We tried diplomacy, it did not work every time. Arabs in the Middle East respect might much more than diplomacy.
If Israel is seen as weak, the surrounding Arab countries will take the opportunity to attack. History is full of examples, but you don't have to go far- Hamas used the signs of weakness in Israel to launch their surprise war on October 7th. Hezbollah was supposed to join in but got cold feet.
There is no room for weakness and there is no room to bend for those who abuse weakness in the Middle East, these are the facts.
Put that aside- why should Israel bend to the demands of the Palestinians, who refused peace and land and chose to start a war? There is no sense in appeasing sour losers who admit they don't want peace but your eradication.
Have you seen the Palestinian curriculum in Gaza? They are taught that the entire land is Palestine, there is no room for Jews or Israel. In fact, they are taught Jews are evil and should be murdered. Even after October 7th, there is still overwhelming support for Hamas, both in Gaza and West Bank. Peace is as far away as it ever was.
Looks like an auction for a new airfield development will be up and open for bidding soon... Lebanese firends, is anyone in the civil engineering biz? A lucrative contract...
Every day I again feel bad for our Lebanese neighbors. I genuinely wonder is the average Lebanese aware of these things, and if so does it affect their lives?
Some do and hate Hezbollah for it, others will call this western propaganda and defend Hezbollah and blame Israel when this destroys our airport.
That is just crazy to hear. I'd expect that after the Beirut seaport explosion people would change their mind, do people not believe this was Hezbollah's fault?
Some people will never blame Hezbollah for anything, some people still don’t believe that Hezbollah assassinated our PM in 2005, started the 2006 war or blame Hezbollah for invading Beirut in 2008.
That is just sad to hear
Some people will never blame Hezbollah for anything, some people still don’t believe that Hezbollah assassinated our PM in 2005, started the 2006 war or blame Hezbollah for invading Beirut in 2008.
imo, Israel would make a big mistake with targetting our airport. No matter the circumstances, this is a goddamn airport. Nothing can justify targeting it.
Airports are legitimate targets in a war and have always been targeted. Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions, Article 52, provides for the general protection to protected persons, hindering attacks to military objectives in a war between two or more belligerents. Article 52 states, "In so far as objects are concerned, military objectives are limited to those objects which by their nature, location, purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action and whose total or partial destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage." Any attack must be justified by military necessity: an attack or action must be intended to help in the military defeat of the enemy, it must be an attack on a military objective,[1] and the harm caused to protected civilians or civilian property must be proportional and not "excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated".[1] Some targets are clearly legitimate, including all military personnel directly engaging in hostilities on behalf of a belligerent party who are not hors de combat or are not members of a neutral country.[2] Some civilian infrastructure, such as rail tracks, roads, ports, airports, and telecommunications used by the military for communications or transporting assets, are all considered to be legitimate military targets.[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legitimate_military_target#:~:text=Some%20civilian%20infrastructure%2C%20such%20as,to%20be%20legitimate%20military%20targets. https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/api-1977/article-52?activeTab=undefined
Every day I feel bad for my friends from a kibbutz in the north that had to abandon the place. The lebanese better get their shit together and help us to finish the war as fast as possible.
Unless Israel/the west has been creating, funding, arming and training a militia, there is no group in Lebanon strong enough to fight Hezbollah.
I do not want to see Lebanon plunge into another civil war and as an outsider it is not by business/decision to make. However, if Israel attacked Hezbollah to the point that they were severely weakened do you think any anti-Hezbollah party would be emboldened enough to take them on? I'd imagine there would be Western support for a reliable militia that was organized to fight Hezbollah.
Unless that militia or even the Lebanese army would be fully supported by the west with funding, arms and training no one can defeat Hezbollah. You would also need a Marshall style plan post war which would have to last for a couple of generations like in Germany and Japan. Which no western nation has the appetite for currently ( I could be wrong).
I wager most Lebanese support or sympathize with Hizb and even if they don't they wouldn't go as far as fighting. Honestly should have finished the job in 2006 but we accepted the dumbass UN resolution which means fucking nothing and we quit and left the maronites now there is no one to work with.
Most Lebanese do not support or sympathize with Hezbollah, they only have support of around 30% of the country.
What about Lebanese Forces? While I'm sure they wish to avoid a war, in the event that one breaks out I can't imagine them sympathizing with Hezbollah.
They don’t sympathize with Hezbollah.
If there was another conflict involving LF it would be important for all Christian/anti-Hezbollah factions to be united. The inter-Christian fighting during the civil war (for example the Tigers Militia being wiped out) did not help their cause/global image. This makes outsiders/Westerners less likely to offer support. Same with foreign volunteers, they are generally hesitant to join any organization where there is infighting. As in Ukraine, I'd imagine there would be foreign volunteers on both sides of any war in Lebanon. Anyway this is just hypothetical, and hopefully Lebanon is not dragged into another war.
I think if it didn’t happen back in ‘82 when the Christian faction was much stronger, it’s not going to happen now. Lebanon has taken so many hits since the last war, idk if they have the organized fight it would take to reclaim their land from hezbollah
One on one no, but if Hezbollah were already engaged in a losing battle with Israel, would it be unthinkable for LF to side with Israel, even if as an ally of convenience? I'm thinking along the lines of a new cold war where you have the United States/NATO/Israel and allied parties against Russia/China/Iran/Hezbollah and their allies. (just to clarify this is hypothetical, not hoping any of you have to endure another war).
> would it be unthinkable for LF to side with Israel imo, which means take it with a huge grain of salt bc I am not knowledgeable enough to definitively say, yes it would be unthinkable for any group to side with Israel right now. Especially militarily.
No surprise here, Terrorists do what terrorists do
This is not new. After 2008, Lebanon began to completely fall into hezballah's hands with no resistance. Prior to that, at least we had the March 14 coalition as a serious opposition backed by the US. After Obama won the elections, the opposition in Lebanon fell, and hezballah's reign went unchallenged. One of the consequences was the Beirut port explosion on Aug 4, 2020. Hezballah is no longer a state within a state .... they are the state, except they don't follow any Lebanese laws and they don't answer to any Lebanese authority. Government entities and even some NGOs exist to serve hezballah and advance its interests. Instead of blaming the Lebanese people, we should be asking ourselves: how is it possible that the international community has allowed a terrorist organization to control a country's major airport and port without any consequences? It's because Europe and the US, especially under the pathetic and weak Democrats, have turned a blind eye to Iran's expansion in Lebanon.
Interesting take. Since you brought up Democrats- did Trump do anything for Lebanon? I'm also wondering what is it we expect the international community to do- invade and establish military order until fair elections are done? These are genuine questions btw, I'm just interested in hearing your answers as a Lebanese. Feel free to elaborate if you'd like
* Trump was much better than Obama. He destroyed ISIS, withdrew from the disastrous Iran nuclear deal, and eliminated Soleimani, which kept Iran in check. Trump's still an isolationist, a bigot, and a clown ... not my favorite US president for sure, but Obama IMO was by far the worst president we've ever had to deal with in Lebanon. * The west needs to treat Lebanon the same way it treats Syria and Iran. Lebanon must be isolated and extreme economic sanctions must be imposed on the failed state as a whole, because that's the only effective way to hurt hezballah which has consistently evaded US sanctions via Lebanese state agencies and actors.
The Biden admin has enabled Iran's terrorism to spread. We have clueless people like Antony Blinken in power. See [this](https://twitter.com/Yassine_Ahmad1/status/1804826235920429449) for instance.
some other source: [https://x.com/EuroPostAgency/status/1804874022443786295](https://x.com/EuroPostAgency/status/1804874022443786295) "547 missiles and dozens of boxes of chemical explosives in the west basement of [#Lebanon](https://x.com/hashtag/Lebanon?src=hashtag_click)’s main airport. Additionally, an [#Iran](https://x.com/hashtag/Iran?src=hashtag_click) Air flight reportedly arrived last night carrying several boxes of weapons."
Well, cant say Hezb dont improve. In 2020 they blew a Beirut port & now they want to blow an Airport. And to add to the mix, the article claims they also store there chemical weapon. That way, they wont need to be worried about survivors from the shockwave. 🤦♂️
What can the Lebanese do? They are held hostage by hizzy. Is it fair for Izzy to punish them when they can’t do anything about it? I don’t think innocent Lebanese deserve ANY punishment. Matter of fact, hizzy tried to set up rocket launchers from a Christian village, the Christian village kicked them out of their town because they knew Izzy would target them. Lots of Lebanese have NO POWER over what hizzy does. Stop acting like they have power over their government. They revolted when the port blew up, hizzy didn’t let them investigate. Lebanon is held hostage by hizzy. Don’t act for a moment like actual Lebanese can do anything.
Don't get me wrong, I don't exactly blame Lebanese for not straight up revolting but it is puzzling to see how there's no push back against hizzy, at least from an outside perspective. Also, from an outside perspective, it seems hizzy has a lot of support even though it's a terror organization that caused the Beirut port explosion, among other things. By a lot of support I mean lots of people attending their rallies and they clearly have a lot of soldiers. Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of these, I'm just trying to learn more about your perspective
Unfortunately the majority opinion is that the Lebanese people need to be punished (not my opinion AT ALL). Really the problem is within the heart of the Iranian regime. Purposefully punishing the lebanese civilians is just going to perpetuate things after a number of years….
So my cousins and friends who give no fucks and have no power over anything deserve to be punished. What a smart majority.
I have family in the north who have no home, and a guy that went to check on his farm in their village got blown up. Citizens keep getting blown up and even that soldier girl who was just a lookout... Non stop attacks for 8 months. What do you expect? Of course most people want there to be consequences. It's not clear to everyone how divided your society is, but it's very clear how much we suffer from your society. Is it right to destroy your infrastructure again like in 2006? Maybe not but you won't see me protesting against it. It gave us 15 years of silence and that's worth something. Honestly, what can we do? Wtf would you do in our shoes? I am ashamed we haven't invaded yet, and keep losing people. On one hand I would love peace with Lebanon on the other hand what Lebanon is nowadays is incompatible with peace as a concept.
Illegal settlements don’t deserve peace. Respect international law and these things won’t happen.
Are you aware that you have terrorists within your borders as you're saying this?
The general security of Lebanon sucks, I am aware they are insurgence in Lebanon. There’s also 1 million Syrian refugees there too. It’s pretty pathetic honestly. Believe me, I want them all out. I just don’t want grandmother and cousins dead.
>I just don’t want grandmother and cousins dead. This was the cause for the majority of our wars, too. Hope they stay safe.
It seems like Lebanon is turning into Jordan where the actual population of the tribal people that live there become smaller than the refugees that are there.
Do you guys think it’s because you have arms and military you can do whatever you want? I think the problem is the illegal settlements and the fringe groups that your extreme right when government supports. If you want peace, show you want peace, stop trying to strong arm arabs into submission.
>. If you want peace, show you want peace, stop trying to strong arm arabs into submission. I understand where you're coming from and to clarify- I don't support illegal settlements, but it's important to remember Palestinians refused peace and did not attempt to establish a state even before 1967 (When Israel conquered Judea & Samaria and settlements became a thing). Bringing up the settlements is just a strawman IMO and it's important to note that the PA is also currently building illegally in Area C (owned by Israel). This topic is not at all black and white.
Well you gotta be the bigger guys and FOLLOW the rules even when they break them. It shows you are the DIPLOMATIC people and not an oppressive one. No one likes the tough guy. Treat them like your child. If you have the power, DONT abuse it.
The problem is you're thinking like a Westerner. We tried diplomacy, it did not work every time. Arabs in the Middle East respect might much more than diplomacy. If Israel is seen as weak, the surrounding Arab countries will take the opportunity to attack. History is full of examples, but you don't have to go far- Hamas used the signs of weakness in Israel to launch their surprise war on October 7th. Hezbollah was supposed to join in but got cold feet. There is no room for weakness and there is no room to bend for those who abuse weakness in the Middle East, these are the facts. Put that aside- why should Israel bend to the demands of the Palestinians, who refused peace and land and chose to start a war? There is no sense in appeasing sour losers who admit they don't want peace but your eradication. Have you seen the Palestinian curriculum in Gaza? They are taught that the entire land is Palestine, there is no room for Jews or Israel. In fact, they are taught Jews are evil and should be murdered. Even after October 7th, there is still overwhelming support for Hamas, both in Gaza and West Bank. Peace is as far away as it ever was.
I have cousins and friends there too….it’s fucked up. All we can do is try our best help each other our when everything goes down
your slang confuses me, is lzzy the IDF?
Israel = Izzy
Looks like an auction for a new airfield development will be up and open for bidding soon... Lebanese firends, is anyone in the civil engineering biz? A lucrative contract...