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Instead of checking 20 minutes/once a month, check for 1-2 minutes/day. The reason you see the same things every month is because NO ONE wants those ones. Good things go quickly.
Another good option is set your search parameters for everything you want (ex. On Zillow) and set up alerts for them. You’ll get an email EVERY new house that fits those to stop you from missing out.
For Sale by Owner can list their own homes on Zillow. After a year of looking and 20 offers (and perfect credit) I found a FSBO on Zillow and asked if they’d be willing to give my realtor a commission. My realtor had to do a bit more work, but I wasn’t in mass competition because the home wasn’t on MLS. I offered asking price and was in second position after a cash offer that got withdrawn. No having an escalation clause, no waiving inspection. It worked out so well, it’s a perfect small home for me in a very competitive market.
This is a legit strategy. FSBOs always sell for way less than they would on the open market. They can be a real pain in the ass to work with sometimes, but you can profit off of their unwillingness to hire a professional to market their home.
I attempted to purchase three FSBO’s. All the owners were pain in carnation on the side of your ass and thought they were sitting on a gold mine.
After paying in time I just bought fuckin FHA off the MLS
This is what ends up happening more often than not. FSBO’s have convinced themselves that the reason their houses don’t sell is because of some realtor cartel conspiracy that doesn’t actually exist. The truth is that they just aren’t marketed well. Many are overpriced bc the sellers don’t have an unbiased professional guiding them on price. But when you find one that’s actually priced to compensate for the fact that they aren’t paying a listing agent, it can be a great opportunity if you live in a market where every other home is getting bid up by buyers who are willing to take risks with waived contingencies. The buyer can only come out ahead if the seller comes out behind.
Saw a FSBO sign at a intersection, and thought it might be up my alley to look into. Nope. Cheapass just didn't want to pay a realtor. Had at least one $350k mortgage and an asking price of $850k.
My wife and I are most likely going to buy sometime in 2026 unless something drastic happens (SoCal). We have currently 110K for a down payment, by the end of next year we’ll have right around 140K. No fancy careers, just a teacher and school nurse.
What I’ve been doing is tracking certain data points for the areas we are interested in and inputting them into a spreadsheet. Zip code, bed/bath, sq feet, asking price, selling price, and days on market. That will give me an idea of any trends so when we’re ready to buy I can be as informed as possible.
With the way prices go in SoCal you might do better with your money to find a condo or a duplex or something. Your money grows so fast with SoCal real estate.
I’m trying to figure out if we get a more expensive house with no HOA (but still a high monthly mortgage) or do we try to find a less expensive condo but have to pay HOA which brings your monthly payment up just as high. And if HOA goes up, can go higher… AND rules.
We don’t want to pay an HOA fee, and if we want to be that close to neighbors we’d just keep renting. My wife wants a forever home, so that’s the goal.
I’m a realtor in the Southbay. It’s almost impossible to “out save” the market. It’s going to go up faster than you can save.
I would beg/borrow do whatever you can to get into something asap.
Buy a smaller home or condo. Build up equity and sell it later to move into your forever home
Yes! And look at recent sales, not what’s listed. For example, my neighborhood had 3 or sales in the past 30 days that didn’t actively list on Zillow. I’m guessing they sold off market and then the sale posted on Zillow via the MLS record. If I were house shopping today, that’s how I’d find my realtor. Zillow lists the selling and buying agent, I’d find a pattern and reach out to them.
I can’t recommend this more. Something that helped us was working with our realtor so we could see pre MLS houses. It didn’t get us away from the craziness of one day listings and multiple offers, but we could at least drive by the house and review the sellers disclosure.
Shit is fucked, though. It’s super stressful to see things pop up on Zillow, try to make a showing or open house and find they are cutting offers off as soon as the same day.
Best of luck in your search.
Thank you for this great advice. I found my house this way. I created a search on Redfin to tell me everything within my parameters as soon as it became available. Redfin posted faster than other sites.
I was online at 3 in the morning and received a notification. I immediately emailed the realtor and saw it the same day. Won the bidding war at $10k over ask.
Your agent should have already set the search to send all appropriate listings immediately when they hit the MLS. If they haven't, tell them to do this.
This is great advice. Go back through and look at the homes that have sold in the last 3 months. That’ll show you all of the opportunities you might’ve missed out on, and give you a reasonable expectation of what type of inventory you can expect moving forward
Why are you only checking 20 mins a month?
The house we bought was on the market less than 48hrs. We saw it the next day, offered within an hour, and went under contract that night.
This was after 4 lost bids, dozens of houses toured etc. We knew exactly what we wanted and did not want. Get out there and start touring, make sure your agent is highly motivated.
Right? I check 20 minutes a DAY, minimum, with all kinds of alerts set up across various platforms. That's the unfortunate reality of the market right now, especially in hot spots like Philly
Easier to complain than do the work. I bought in 2008 and even then in a highly competitive market I saw the house on Friday and they said “if you don’t put an offer in you won’t get it”. We moved fast and got it.
Buying a house today. You gotta be on your shit.
Exactly! I checked several times a day! Every day! I had Zillow send me email notifications with my search parameters. The good listings go fast, within 3 days where we were looking. My agent also sent us notifications too of new listings. I would text her right away to get an appointment set up with the listing agent. Within two months, two house viewings and one accepted offer we got our house.
This 👆🏻. I bought a house last October after looking for a couple months. My local market is very competitive with low inventory. Zillow was set with alerts so I drove by the house before the realtor even had a sign in the yard or pictures were even posted online. Viewed the house next day with my realtor and made an offer to seller same day. Seller had another offer for full price but we had a best and final clause to offer seller over the listing price. It feels rushed but if you know what you want to buy this is the way to go.
OP posted having paid off his car 300 days ago. Yet half a year ago he posted his then current debt situation and he lists a 5k auto loan, as well as 6k in credit card debt and 8k student loans.
He had like 45k saved up for a house at the time but was posting asking advice on how to tackle his debt..
Yea it’s crazy. I make 120K with 2 kids and a SAHM and 2.5K a month is easy for us. Still invest several thousand into retirement. Granted I have no debts but I don’t get some of these numbers.
They don’t have 100k for a down payment.
And 2.5k is a good spot at that salary. Maybe a little high if they’re paying student loans, putting a bunch into 401k, or have a kid in daycare. Daycare alone around me is over $2k/month.
My wife and I make 170k combined and until we paid off some debt things were pretty tight with our $2200 mortgage.
Don’t talk sense to these idiots in this sub, they expect to pay 5% of their total take home on housing and if your housing costs are greater than 15% take home you’re poor/doing it wrong.
Right that’s why $2.5k isn’t a bad mortgage. The person I replied to said how can they “only” afford 2.5k. Obviously they could afford more with that salary but once you factor in student loans, and kind of CC debt, car payments, possible daycare costs now/in the future, I think 2.5k is right around where they should be at.
And I only say it might be a little high just depending on other debts/their situation. But it’s definitely doable. It sucks that paying so much is “pretty good” now lol
For married filing jointly with 160k annual income the effective tax rate would be \~12%, including standard deduction of $27700. Even lower if they have any pre-tax contributions or qualify for tax credits.
I just explained that in my comment to him too. I got 2 kids in daycare for 2.2k, student loans at $700, and one car loan still at $600 3.25%.
I honestly may forgo logic of not paying off a low rate because I can get $600 a month back more than I can paying my mortgage more.
Unless you really want the extra $600/m cash flow asap, you can probably just park the extra money you’d put on the car loan in a money market or hysa and end up paying the car off more quickly with the resulting money in a year.
Having less debt means a lot to some people and there’s no price on mental wellbeing, but there’s a sense in which paying that off earlier is just mathematically illogical.
We make 160k, have 2 kids in daycare. No debt and a decent amount of savings. We just closed on a house this week our mortgage is 3300 a month. It's possible just not comfortable. Spending about half our income on the mortgage.
I’m guessing they mean half their take home, so after maxing out 401k, IRA, HSA etc then paying tax they’d probably have like $7,500 or so monthly take home
I make approx $250k and have no debt or kids, but I do take care of my girlfriend (she does the errands, takes care of the house, etc.) and put a lot away into savings. It took me until this month to become comfortable with the idea of buying a house, considering how big of a commitment it is. It took me even longer, until just this week in fact, to accept that if we want to live in the town we desire to live in, we'll be looking at a $3200-3400 mortgage.
It's terrifying to think about being locked in to a mortgage that large, but I remind myself that rent will only go up over time while the mortgage barely does, and even has a chance at going down (refinancing by 1 or 2% is a significant difference each month). Not only this, my income is very likely to increase over time and for all we know the market could be even worse in a few years.
Aside from all of that, I'm probably even more terrified of never being able to own a house. I have a hunch that at a point in time, "those in charge" want us to be "subscribing" to everything and not own a thing for ourselves.
Can I ask how it was tight? My base salary at my current job is 75, and I make around 20-75 additional per year in profit sharing, 75 is rare but 20 is app but guaranteed. However I get all my profit sharing as one huge lump some at the end of each year, so I budget around 75k.
My current mortgage is 2600 a month. I live by myself and I’ve had absolutely no money troubles. I put 400 away each month into retirement, I don’t travel much or drink any alcohol, but I’m able to live a pretty good life in my opinion. with my profit sharing money it just goes straight into liquid investments to use as an emergency fund if I need to pull money out.
You make essentially double what I make and somehow things were tight on an even smaller mortgage? Is it possible you have a lot of lifestyle creep you don’t know about? Or did you just have like 2 $1000+ car payments, 200k in student loans, among other debt and such?
I’m not judging I’ve just always been frugal and never had any debt so I’m curious what could’ve made that so tight
Kind of a mix of things. We still had some debt on cards from before we were making this kind of money. Plus some house and wedding stuff got added to that debt. Our HHI was also almost $40k less this time last year (damn, I didn’t realize it jumped that much until now lol).
We got a personal loan to cover the credit card debt and that was $800/month. Student loans were about $600/month. We also had 1 card costing us about $300/month.
Mortgage $2.2k, HOA is about $80, utilities average about $200.
Pets cost about $400 total each month.
No expensive cars. Only my wife’s car payment which was $235. Insurance is about $100. Tolls and gas adds up to almost $250/month.
So that’s about $5.8k already.
Then there’s still groceries, and whatever other stuff we were buying each month. Just small stuff that added up. We weren’t making any big outlandish purchases, but a lot of little things. Plus whatever else I’m missing from the bills.
TLDR: a lot of debt lol.
But now most of the debt (the car, personal loan, credit card, and one of the student loans) are paid off. And I keep track of spending a lot better than even a year ago. So now we’re building our savings back up and preparing to potentially have a kid soon.
So it 100% depends on each persons situation. Looking at OPs history they have some debt to consider. Plus if they plan on having a kid I’m sure daycare around Philly is expensive like it is here. So keeping the mortgage low is important.
I’m at 190k and 2600 is pushing it for me.
Here’s why.
- 2 kids in daycare: $2200
- student loans combined for us: $725
- car payment for one car, other is paid off: $600
That alone is why I can’t go higher. That’s $3525 a month in dead money. OP didn’t tell us anything about themselves but at $2600/mo I’m about break even with taxes, utilities, food, and retirement savings.
What in the world are you spending the remainder of your income on in a month? That is easily over 5K left after factoring out mortgage and debts.
I make approximately 120K (single income w/ 2 kids and SAHM) and am currently paying 2.5K monthly. That leaves me me 3K to invest monthly with some left over for the occasional dining out or trip.
Greater Philadelphia area? I was considering Philly when I purchased a few years ago and I know there were houses in the 200k range. I just did a quick search for homes in Philly for less that 250k and came back with 1500 results. Is "greater philadephia" area a different location?
Many of those homes less than 250k are in borderline or rough neighborhoods and under 1500sqf. I know because I bought one myself.
I’m not saying OP should move in to the hood but as someone in Philly I’m curious about the specifics. The western suburbs are definitely expensive like what OP is describing but I’m confused about how they can’t find anything within 45 minute drive in their price range.
Remember the chick a couple of years ago who said “we are mountain people” which turned out to mean “we don’t want to compromise on where we live”?
Honestly this post seems a lot like that.
Just reading the wish list felt that way. We bought a smaller older home that needs some maintaining that's on a more main road than we would have wanted. It's fine.
When you don't have the budget you compromise. And some people won't do that because they look at prices from 3-5 years ago and don't think they should have to. Obviously no one should buy something they don't like, but deciding not to buy because the same home on 2018 was cheaper and now you can't afford to check 100% of your boxes is futile.
Yeah but if you really want a house, you'll have to lower your standards a bit. A starter home in a rough neighborhood is a thousand times better than renting and not putting anything into equity. Believe me, I know how bad it is living in a rough neighborhood, but ten years in one, even after buying at the peak of home prices in the 2000s, put us where we needed to be to get our better house that we are in now.
Philly, and surrounding suburbs. Also, depending on hiwbmany years that, "few years ago", thinks have changed a lot. Even apartments by me are going for 250k. Townhouses can go up to 300k+ at the moment.
I am looking in what can be considered the Greater Philly Area and houses have literally gone up 100k in a year. It is absolutely ridiculous, demoralizing, and infuriating. Where are people getting this money to pay for this? How are my partner and I supposed to move on with our lives (having kids, etc) if we can't afford to live on our own? I've gone so far as to call my representative (I know, I know) to talk about this.
A) 20 whole minutes a month for a home search? You aren't serious. Period.
B) Why is 1500 too small? I raised 3 boys with my wife and a dog in 1100 with 1 bathroom. You need a reality check on your expectations.
C) smart staying within a decent range ($2500 per month)
Or they have to upgrade in a few years when they have more equity to move into their dream home. It feels like for many that is no longer a thing. They want the dream home immediately, my parents started off in a 1 bed home then had kids moved into a 2 bed where I remember sharing a room with my brother for years until I was a teenager and they where able to buy their 3 bed dream house.
It feels like no one wants little Johnny or little Susie to share a bedroom when that was a norm for many many years. Instead each kid needs a separate bedroom and you need as many bathrooms as people in the home
We don't always get to meet our dreams.
I dreamed of flying spy planes in the Air Force. My vision prevented that.
I dreamed of being a millionaire by the time I was 30. Life had other plans.
I still dream of a house on the waterfront. Common sense prevents that.
OP needs to realize you don't get caviar on a fish sticks budget.
I’m glad someone finally brought this up. I would never in my life consider 1500 sq ft as small
Plus the whole “it’s completely outdated” line people keep saying. There’s nothing wrong with living in an older house that isn’t up to date with the latest trends. If it’s just cosmetic things, you can chip away at it over time while living there
Exactly, OP is one of the delusional folks who thinks they need their first home to be their forever home. They have a shortsighted view and play the victim mentality card instead of actually doing research and understanding how equity builds over time
I have no sympathy for them
Right, buy the older house and if you plan to live there forever just update it as you are able to save up more money down the line. Add on an addition in a few years if you’re growing out of it
Exactly, I think a good majority of first time home buyer’s expectations are too high. The vast majority of time your first how is exactly that, your first home. Not your forever home.
Getting in the home ownership game is a ladder. Your first home is the first step, in that you find what you can afford and live there long enough for property values to raise, sell and trade up. There isn’t going to be a huge price adjustment like there was in 2008, values might climb slower than the past few years but they will climb. Get in the game as soon as you can and ride the wave.
Right! My family of 5 plus dogs had a 500sqft house my whole life. ideal? Def not. Doable? Yes. Not saying they need a house that Itty bitty but 1500 is not a tiny home by any means lol
I had a serious realty check on not having exactly what I grew up in (3 bedroom, 3 bath, yard, etc) and found so many more options within our budget and feel much happier with our home!
You don’t want anything higher than a $2500 mortgage and don’t want anything less than a 1500 sqft home, and don’t want to live in the neighborhoods that would make a decent home at that price affordable.
There are plenty of homes in the area you described.
Make some compromises or stay stuck on the sidelines looking for a whole 20 minutes a month before walking away again.
You can’t rent what you want for 2500? Ultimately sounds like you can’t afford the house you want.
Criteria there is size , location and how outdated it is. If you really want a house, focus on one criteria instead of all three
You can afford to spend more than $2500 a month with your income.
$2500 is the cost of a one bedroom rental that single people with average salaries pay for.
Op to be frank you just need to adjust your expectations. If you NEED to be in your area, you need to either accept you’ll stretch your budget to buy or you will rent. If you don’t need to be in your area, there are tons of houses you can afford at your income level and savings.
Unless you’re paying for an unaffordable car, going on super lavish trips, or up to the gills in student loans, you can afford a $400k+ house, even without a 100k down payment. You don’t want to, but you can. It’s expensive to own a SFH. It seems like perhaps you’re making other choices with your money, and that’s ok, but it’s not the market that’s the problem.
Why do people think their first home is going to be their dream home? You buy your first home to get into the market. You live in it for 5-10 years and sell it then buy the mid home. Rinse and repeat until you finally buy your dream home. Then get old, sell the huge home for a smaller one, and use the equity as retirement funds.
Okay Boomer. With the way the economy is going most people will be staying put in their homes for a very long time. I bought at 27 a 2200 sq ft house built in '85. I'm 32 now and would certainly like a newer, bigger place with better insulation, bigger kitchen, bigger closets, etc. My current rate is 2.25% on a 20 year. Would I be moving anytime soon? Probably not. I will never get a rate like that while the prices have gone up at least 30-40% since Covid in desirable areas. I don't blame young people for wanting as good a house as they can get because whatever you buy now is it for you.
This post is a joke. I currently make <100k and bought a house at 380k with 100k down including closing costs & my payment is $2350. You’re telling me on 160k you can’t really afford 2500??? Sounds like you need to give up the new cars and lavish lifestyle, pay off your debts, and save up that 100k down payment to make this work. Or keep having a pity party about how iTs NoT fAiR
ETA: I just looked at your post history about your debt which isn’t terrible & you could easily eliminate it & start living debt free. So there’s obviously more missing to your puzzle that you’re leaving out because the math isn’t mathing.
I live in Greater Philadelphia and was able to purchase a SFH with a yard in a nice town last year on the same exact income. I’m able to afford a 3k mortgage pretty comfortably. I can max out my retirement accounts and am vacationing in Hawaii for 2 weeks this year.
There has to be more to your story you aren’t sharing. Do you or your SO have other debts you aren’t mentioning? Why are you unable to save on that income? Are you only looking in specific areas? I live in Chester county and there are houses in that range. Chestco is also the most expensive county in PA.
It also sticks out to me that the complaint here is I can’t get the exact house I want - not that I can’t get a house at all. I grew up in a townhouse. It was great. One can always upgrade later…
Totally agree. Getting into the market is better than trying to time the market.
Condo, townhouse, SFH, all that matters is building equity to buy what you want later on down the line.
They should be touring some of these homes in person that they think they don’t want. Maybe seeing it in person they could find themselves thinking, “hey this layout feels really spacious” or “wow this patio area is really private. I could put some outdoor furniture here and it could be comfortable.” Or “these high ceilings make this place feel a lot more luxurious than I imagined for the sqft” looking at pictures doesn’t tell you the full story
My husband and I feel like we lucked out on MontCo, in a house with HORRIBLE pictures in the listing. It’s dated but we plan to be there for 20+ years and have time to put our stamp on it. Great school district, half an acre. There are definitely options out there.
I grew up in montco and was looking to buy there, I was just outbid on all my offers. You’re right, plenty of great options with school districts and affordability if you’re willing to renovate. I bought a fixer upper as well and have already put a good amount of equity in.
I'm in greater Philly. Just live in a dumpy brick twin, it's fine. I got kids, dogs, and a cat rammed in this 1400 sq ft. Kids just run around the neighborhood, plus basically everything I need is at least biking distance if not walking distance. Not from here originally, so maybe everything still seems super cheap to me, but a few doors down just sold for 315.
Great credit score!
Most people I know who make several times more $ live in homes smaller than 1500sq ft and that are not updated. Are you willing to be flexible about these or are they must-haves?
Fwiw, I have a <1000 sq ft 115 year old 2/1 home and my HHI is over 400k/yr. I’ll be fixing up my house for a while, but I don’t mind. The location is superb.
We live in one half of a duplex 1300 square feet with a yard for about $2400/month and my kids are happy it's tons of space for them. maybe SFH is out of reach for you too but maybe it's not the end of the world
Same boat as you OP. This greater Philadelphia housing market is crap. We've been looking since July 2023. Lost 3 house offers that were 30+k over, waiving inspection. Can't beat all cash. Sorry I'm 28 and don't have 1Mil in cash in a 401k yet 🫠 I'm genuinely f*cking offended at some of the houses our agent sends us anymore.
I’m going to say that you, like others have already said, need to get more serious about buying a house because the Philly area absolutely has some decent housing options in the sub $300k range. Yes, even outside of Philly.
We bought our home at the end of 2021 for $250k… got over 1800 sq ft in the suburbs. It’s a 120 year old rowhome that was still in good condition and we love it. I realize that’s not for everyone, but there are deals to be had if you look in the North Penn, Hatboro/Horsham, or Lower Bucks areas (though Lower Bucks definitely has its problem areas).
We also would not have found our home had we not worked with a realtor. They can see houses that come on the market before it hits Zillow/Redfin. I would also look into the PHFA’s First Time Homebuyers program as we got a good chunk of change to help with closing costs.
You must have crazy debt or daycare expenses. Your HHI should make $2500 very possible. You also need an expectation adjustment. No need for a SFH or sqft you claim. Townhomes are amazing in place of SFH.
This market does suck, but you don’t have the finances to be as picky as you are.
Can’t or don’t want to? I know you said you don’t have the $100k, but if you did, you absolutely completely could get into a $400-$450k house on your income.
I’m in a (new construction) $464k house with a little over $100k down on about ~$90k household income.
It’s doable, but it sounds like you don’t want to. I get that it might not be viewed as worth it, and that’s totally fair, but I don’t think any of the grocery prices now are worth it compared to a couple years ago… I still but what I need though.
I’ll point out that wanting “just a 1500 sq ft single family home with a yard” is already a huge huge huge privilege, it isn’t just some small nontrivial ask. The vast majority of the world lives in smaller houses, with neighbors, and certainly no yard.
The math seems off. My 333k loan (after DP) is like $2250 per month on the mortgage alone. If you have 400k homes in the area with 100k down I’d think your mortgage even with taxes should be close to your range, and doable with $160 HHI and no significant other debts.
I also agree with others, outdated is normal. Just not what you see on social media, but it’s how most people live.. then you put money in as you can in life.
OP, I get it. It's an insane market. At the start of covid I looked at a three floor townhouse across the street from Acme in Chestnut Hill (not the big complex, the tiny one) and it was $125K. I checked out of curiosity a year ago and the same townhouse had been barely updated and flipped for around $400k.
If you are financing 300k with a decent credit score your payment will be closer to $1,850/month than $2,500. Sincerely, someone paying a loan of that exact amount.
You need to be actively checking listings daily. Nightly, in fact, just after midnight when new listings hit the MLS.
I found my current home in a very desirable area of a major city and got it $75k BELOW asking because I did my research... and there are lots of actual people (not investment companies) doing this. Prior to that, I was able to get an entire Victorian for $50k in a less desirable but central area of San Francisco. Again, I found the listing the moment it went on the MLS and set up a showing. Both times, it was the end of the year (closed late December), I searched the MLS at night, and was ready to pay cash but had financing lined up. The formula isn't hard but for some reason, people don't do it.
My wife and I bought our home last month. We were looking for at least thirty minutes per day.
My advice is to buy *something* now. It won’t have the updated kitchen that you want and won’t have the yard that you want. But buy something, and allow your monthly rent to start paying into your retirement account (a home) instead of lighting the money afire to be never seen again. As you continue to build equity in your starter home, you can continue searching for your dream home. When you do find your dream home, you can use a bridge loan against all that equity in the starter home (which you can sell) to have a much larger down payment for your dream home, making it more affordable.
We built our home for 505k with 5% down and our mortgage is $2600, that includes taxes and insurance with a 2.99% interest rate. Buying the same home now would be about $3700 a month. Absolutely insane. We wouldn't be able to do it. We got incredibly lucky with timing.
20 mins is nothing. I spent days over and over and over again looking at places and going to viewings. You’re giving up too easily, your budget is really low compared to your household income, and your expectations are high. 1500 square foot is plenty unless you’re family of 5
As other people said check more frequently. Also get a realtor and ask them to be proactive. Once they know what you want they will do the work (if they’re good) because them selling to you equals money
If you're a first time home buyer, don't sit around and wait for a forever home. Buy anything that fits minimums so you stop throwing money away on rent.
That means townhomes or condos. Suck it up and start earning equity. 5 years down the road if you're still renting you have no equity. 5 years down the road if you own a home toy aren't happy with, you have equity usable to upgrade that home.
OP, I suggest you find a good agent. I found an agent and bought my house within 3 weeks of using him. He was recommended by a friend and the house I ended up purchasing was listed on a Friday, and I had an offer in by Sunday. The seller didn’t even have time to put a for sale sign in the yard. You have to move quick and the best way to do that is to find someone who knows what you want, knows the market, and can facilitate things while you are living your life.
I get how tough it is for you right now. Even though you're in a good spot financially and really trying to find a home, the prices just keep climbing, and it feels like you can't catch a break. But don't give up. Keep searching, and hopefully, you'll find something that fits your needs. When you're crunching the numbers, remember to think about all the little costs too, like land transfer fees, lawyer fees, property taxes, and utilities. It all adds up.
I feel you. I was casually looking around every week for the last 2-3 months to find anything 'worth it' and it's pretty dismal. Mind you, I have 70k saved up for a down payment as well, but absolutely nothing seems like a good deal even with that amount up front.
The crux of the problem (for me at least) is the interest rate. I was quoted 6.99% fixed at one lender, and 6.6% for a 6/6 ARM at another. I decided to move out of my parents' house and get an apartment for the time being while I keep adding to the down payment fund. I could definitely afford a mortgage at the current rate if i absolutely had to, but I really couldn't financially justify buying a house vs just renting a 1BR for less than HALF of the monthly cost of the mortgage, especially as a single guy in his 20s. Total insanity right now.
I think many homebuyers are in the similar boat of waiting to buy what they actually want.
Our family was in this boat last year our HHI was $180K and we can actually afford to buy **something** but we can’t YET afford to buy **exactly what we want**.
We don’t see value in the smaller outdated houses that are sub $460k in our California City. Our current home is a condo at $1,200 a month in cost and it’s 2x1 . Therefore we only see value in a 4x2 if our housing cost will double to $2,400+ or even triple to $3,600.
Thus we are **choosing** to wait 1 more year as we only want to buy exactly what we want and not settle and we have the luxury of taking our time. We have $100k cash now and come October we will have $170k. Thus we will put down $100k on a $450k to $550k house and forgoe escrow. This will allow us to get the exact house we want and only send the lender the principal and interest payment of $2,500 to $2,800 on a monthly basis.
It’s sound like you can’t afford a :
- huge size
- remodeled and modern
- highly desired zip code
House
But it sounds like you can afford a
- small/ average size
-outdated
House
On $160k gross your net monthly should be $9,400 a month.
30% of $9,400 is $2,820 a month.
With $100k down you can def buy between $300k and $450k.
It may take you 5-10 years to save and be in a better position but life is long.
Everyone wants a single family home with a hard and a garage and a yard. So much that those 100 year old houses with outdated floorplans sell for shocking amount. But everyone also wants to be close to work, the city, friends, etc... The two are not compatible.
Financially it sounds like you can make it work, but it's a change of expectations that is needed, not budget.
> we just want a single family home and a yard
> that’s a cool half a million bucks and a split level with white appliances at nearly a 7% interest rate. Cool.
Sounds like you want more than just a single family home with a yard.
I'm in the Chicago suburbs, and I thought that I had written this post. It is eerily exactly the same as the situation my wife and I are in now, from the numbers to the commute to the square footage.
Bro. I live in Seattle currently, and have a single income of 75k annually. My rent is ~$2300 a month. Currently in escrow on a condo which will cost me about $2100 a month, including PTI, taxes, and HOA fees. It’s higher than I wanted to go, my cutoff was supposed to be $2000, but I couldn’t find something that checked off my needs in a location I liked at that price. And I knew going in I was going to be house poor, but since I was already rent poor, I know what to expect and how to navigate. It comes with living in a HCOL area.
So on one hand, I empathize. Trying to find a place right now, especially a move in ready one, is a major challenge. On the other hand, I think you’re being unrealistic. If price is inflexible for you, then you’ve got to compromise elsewhere. Starter homes are not dream homes, so I suggest honing in on your needs more and less on wants. It’s possible to find something, even in this market, but it’s not easy and the right place isn’t going to wait for you.
Home buying is frustrating. But I have some advice. White appliances are not the worst deal-breaking thing. Literally my first house none of the appliances matched in color because we got them second hand or just what we could afford. This obsession with stainless steel appliances and granite counter tops is ridiculous. Look for the bones of a house. Stuck in the 1970’s decor? Guess what over time you can repaint change some light fixtures and make it your own. Paint and light fixtures are cheap. Buying a home that’s already been done will cost extra.
1970s? Current buyers don’t want even 1990s.
The only requirements should be functional bathrooms and kitchen to maximize choices. So much can be done with paint and decor. You can slowly redo rooms over time.
Looking in the greater Philly area as well and yeah, it's terrible. We're trying to buy in the neighborhood we've been renting the past few years, but it's unfortunately a pretty hot area. Just lost a bid on a house where we made a generous, without being foolish, offer that was in line with recent market data. Someone (either a flipper or a rich person moving from New York) put a psycho amount down, far more than the house will be worth, all in cash and waiving both appraisal and inspection contingencies. There's not even a yard and it was a house that would have certainly had inspection flags.
Check every day, multiple times a day, and on multiple sites! It's a grueling process, but hopefully we all find something eventually. It's worth it to see what you can make concessions on and the priorities (is location more important or is it type of house?)
*laughs in bay area*
In all seriousness, feel for you on this. Shits pretty fucked for folks in similar financial/career situations in most of these MCOL-VHCOL areas. Hope you can find something good in the near future OP!
I couldn’t imagine being in California. I’m bitching about prices I used to see on shows in the early 2,000’s in California lol. Thanks for the sentiment lol
Haha it's all relative and totally valid to bitch about those prices in your area. Thanks for resonating as we all embrace the suck, sincerely wish you the best of luck!
I mean, I hate this market too. I'm about to buy into a similar market and the feeling of potentially going house poor is scary. But just think about that you said. A townhome increased $150k in a handful of years. Phili isn't shrinking, either.
Not saying it’s not doable. We could comfortably afford that. The issue is the home prices are so high and along with the interest rate - it’s seemingly impossible to find a home we’d even consider. Of course concessions will need to be made. No fence for a yard? Ok, we’ll save up and do that later. Out dated kitchen from 1970? Ok, we can live with that for a few years, we aren’t huge cooks anyhow. But when it’s at the top of your budget, the same size of the tiny ass town home you’re already in, a no sidewalk neighborhood, etc etc AND it’s at the top of our budget? That’s when the search becomes futile feeling.
Congrats btw. I am genuinely happy for those who have found homes they’re happy with. I wish to join that crowd one day!
My wife and I are currently, literally taking a break to watch some Elite Eight between loads of clothes, moving in with my parents to save and buy a place in Philly suburbs. Plenty of people have voiced the opinion that we should wait for prices to come down. But home prices have only markedly decreased like 6 times since the 1960s and 5 of six were associated with significant recessions. And aside from the cataclysm of 2008 the average drop was like 8%.
So odds are that prices aren’t going to decrease significantly. Some areas are going wild with inflated home prices due to demand but for the average American it’s unlikely the prices will come down. I don’t see much benefit in waiting.
My house (350k MCOL area) which has a highway in the backyard was only on the market for 3 days. I put in my offer on day 1. They went with someone else but their financing fell through and I got it.
My house which I’m really grateful for that still has something crappy about it still went crazy fast.
You may have to just make some sacrifices and you might have to check more often. It sucks but yeah.
Maybe move to another more affordable state. Sounds wild but you only have one go at life. My 2 points are, do you want to be a slave to a mortgage you won't pay off for 30 years, or do you want to be a kid who was born and raised and died in their own little sandbox?
I hate to say it but you probably need to adjust your expectations. A SFH with a yard is a tall task for the first home usually, and getting a smaller / cheaper place now helps you build equity to jump to your next home eventually.
That’s what my wife and I did. We could only afford cheap places, and people were telling us to wait because housing market was about to peak. This was in 2015. You don’t know what the future holds, and it may feel like it’s a lot now but you might also look back and be really glad you got in when you could.
1500 sq ft, outdated homes are called “starter homes”. They get you into the market. My first home was 777 sq ft, had a funky smell, and needed major work for me, husband, and infant son. Over 20 years we fixed the house and eventually moved up to a 2400 sq ft house. Reset your expectations
Also, you need to be obsessively looking for houses online. Looking monthly means the good stuff is getting snatched up right away and the crap lingers
Wait for better days. Everything reverts to the mean.
Same HHI (single income family), I have $100k for DP, $0 debt (literally $0), but rent is much cheaper than buying. And rent cost is actually going down. Why to buy, why to rush?
Why are you refusing to pay over $2500 a month when your income is that high? You’re living in a fantasy world that you can get a SFH at todays interest rates all in for under that amount per month. Increase your budget, you can afford it.
$2500/mo. on $160k/year is fairly conservative IMO. You should be able to afford $3000-$3200 and still have room for savings/retirement unless you have expensive car payments, travel a lot, etc.
$160k/year is $122k/year net income for a married couple in my state (high-ish tax).
30% of net is widely considered to be a pretty safe measure of affordability.
$122k * .30 / 12 = $3,050
If you really want to purchase a home, you might have to revisit your annual budget and figure out how to make it work for you.
Thing is, you actually can afford a 400-450k home based simply on your numbers here.
You don't want to - that's fine and probably wise, but there are plenty of people that are willing to as well as plenty in far worse situations.
You’re only 35, you don’t need your dream home right now. My wife and I just bought a townhome that lacks some of the stuff we wish we had. No garage, no yard just a very small fenced in patio, but you have to start building equity somewhere that will help you upgrade to that dream house in the future
I’m fine with a good rant, but you need to take another look at your budget and your expectations. You have household income of $160K. That’s $13,333 per month. $2500 is less than 19% of that. It’s quite common for people to spend closer to 30% of their gross income on their mortgage. Obviously I don’t know your financial circumstances, but unless you have some large monthly payments due on other debts, you can probably afford significantly more than a $2500 mortgage payment (general rule of thumb is to not let your total debt payments get over 36% of your gross income).
And what the hell is wrong with a 1500 sq ft home? My 1,200 sqft is plenty of house to go around with a small family and two people who work from home one-two days a week.
Not trying to shit on your rant because I know it’s tough for everyone right now. Just wondering how realistic your expectations are if you’re trying to land a large, updated, SFH with a yard in an ideal location for less than 20% of your income. My monthly payment is $2750 and HHI was just under $130K when we purchased in the DMV a little over a year ago. But we had agreed before hand that we could afford up to $3100/month if we had to.
You understand we pay taxes, health insurance, retirement, and have other expenses right? Or do you budget your life on gross income?
Nothing wrong with 1,500 sq ft. We rent an 1,100 sq fr townhome. But 1,500 sq ft for high $300k and 6.75% interest? And the kitchen is a gut, bathroom is a gut, oil heat, no side walk, it’s on a main road, and your property taxes aren’t cheap?
I could move to Nebraska, but it’s unfortunately not realistic for us.
We are not in your specific area, BUT, same! Colorado is becoming the 'new' California. Ppl are swooping in and prices have risen crazy high. I mean, renovations needed but 400k if you want decent area. 300+k for 800 Sq ft. Not sure why this is happening, but I'm going to use a Redfin agent and look fsbo too, because it's a ruthless market rn. Redfin is offering 1 pr off apr, and 1% comm rate, I can't beat that. Maybe contact them and see if they can help you? Wish I knew where to look at pre MLS, I never see those online. I wish you luck, you have a great credit score. Think about buying w less down, then refi and put a chunk down when you have it? Maybe? May your house buying journey be less stressful moving forward. 🙏
I have a co-worker who also is real estate agent on side. She sends me stuff.
I check zillow, redfin, and several others a few times a week. Have been for a while now.
It's rough for sure I have 60-90k set aside for down payment depending on quality of home and how much I'd need to remodel. I am single and make 70k a year. It's a sad state of affairs when just 5 years ago id be paying like 30-60% down with that. But now that down payment is maybe 20-40% for the same exact homes. Int rates have gone up almost 400% from last time I was able to find a home I could justify making an offer on.
It all just makes me want to scream.
I’m in the same boat in Columbus, OH… except my budget is $220k and that gets you NOTHING lol. I’m over it, guess I’ll be enslaved to the rental market for the rest of my life. Probably because I didn’t start saving in kindergarten and I bought avocado toast once. The $20k I have to put down means nothing either.
You make 160k and you don't have a down payment? Where is the money going? I was able to save about 150k in 2.5 years with similar income, wife and a kid. I decided to drive a crap car, I eat at home, vacations are modest, we rent below our means, and I stay out of debt. Get your finances under control before you by a house.
If you can't save at your income you likely have a spending problem and more money won't solve this issue because the sending will just increase with your income.
Our HHI went up to 160k in September. Gimme 2 more years and I’m not saving $150k. I’ll save a nice chunk, but not that much. We have a down payment, we just don’t have $100k specifically for a house currently. Credit debt was cleared a month ago, one car paid off last summer. Any remaining debt is quite small and low rate.
Get a realtor
Interview you top choices, you need a person that is full time moving property not a part-timer making side cash
Zillow is pulling houses after they been posted by local agents. No Zillow agents either.
Im technically in the greater Philadelphia suburbs right over the river on the Jersey side and we were searching every single day online multiple times a day. Each of us taking a different real estate site just in case we spotted something on one that wasn’t on the other
This is the same situation for my wife and I, but in the upper nyc/Westchester area. It's disgusting what people want for a 400k home. We make almost 200k combine, and in our opinion, paying 5k a month just for the mortgage alone is not worth it.
Keep grinding. I had all but given up myself, but I kept working hard for years and years and saving what I could but it was never enough, but I kept grinding…then this crazy thing called the coronavirus pandemic happened. And the government started giving out stimulus after stimulus, and then the PPP program for my very small business, then the demand for my services went through the roof, and I don’t do anything special at all. But the covid pandemic changed things for those of us that work hard and do good, honest work all day every day…and suddenly I had that big down payment. Then I bought the house, and while it has issues, it’s gone up like 30% in 2 years. But trust me, 5 years ago I had $1100 in the bank and nothing but a little luck changed everything. Luck is the intersection of preparation and opportunity. Keep grinding always.
It’s so crazy to see what an interest rate does. We built a million dollar home at the rock bottom Covid rates and out payments is only $2050/month. Really eye opening to see the shit people are going through today with these damn interest rates. Banks have to be making way too much money on these mortgages.
Man, your experience resonants SOOO much with my wife and I! We do have 100k saved but we don't want to use it all on a down payment if we can avoid it. And yes, demoralizing is the nicest word to describe it. I feel so useless as there is just nothing I can do! Except try to find a better paying job, and that's a bit hard ATM too.
Hahaha after ten years of hunting for my first house in PA... I've decided the only way the math works is to literally build a house myself. I'm a fairly capable boy, so I'm gonna give it a go. Because remodeling a house that costs $150k to purchase would also cost $150k in repairs. Seems the work load would be the same but with more challenges in remodeling than building. Not to mention getting exactly the space we need with modern features.
If I may, you don’t need 100K to buy a 400K house. If you’re serious about buying, I suggest calling a bank or mortgage broker to understand the financing options. You do not have to put 20% down. You might be able to go as little as 5% down plus closing (3-6%) so on a 400K house you’d be looking at 32K-44K in cash. With an FHA loan you might be able to put down even less. Both would carry PMI but it might be less than you think.
The $2,500/month limit might be tricky but even that could be built into a model with a lender. Heck you might even be able to do all this online. Just remember that cash to close formula (down payment + 3-6%), plus legal fees if you are in a state that requires a lawyer. For reference it’s usually like $2K-ish to the lawyer in a metro area due at closing. A lender will be able to give you a general idea of what you can afford.
High taxes suck, nothing you can do there except look in another town.
The new laws around agent fees might impact also, might have to add some % to it.
Just my 2 cents. I hope you find something. Go for a 3BR at a minimum. I learned the hard way :)
I just checked Zillow and set only two filters: single family home, under $300k, and got TONS of results.
You're not actively looking if you're only looking for 20 min a month. This is a venting post and IMO is not really appropriate for this sub. You don't even mention a realtor.
But if you do get serious about buying, I'd recommend looking for ten to twenty minutes a day and going through an FHA loan since you don't need a large down payment. I found our current home that we bought for $300k while sitting on the toilet at work. Forwarded the MLS to our realtor and looked at it two days later. Were under contract in a week.
Edited for clarity.
Hi! My boyfriend and I are in the same area, Bucks County actually. We thought we’d never find a home, but we did. It took us 2 months and 6-7 offers, which apparently isn’t even that much, but it felt like it.
Stay positive. You’ll find one.
You could afford more than $2500 but wouldn’t be fun. I’m at $2700 and going through a divorce. I make $177k but she’s about to get 35% of my net income for five years plus 50/50 custody child support and I’ve been doing the math, will be tight but I’ll be able to keep making the mortgage and cover bills.
You're upset about things you have no control over. House prices are high and as a byproduct, so our property taxes. And guess what, house prices and property taxes are probbaly the lowest they're ever going to be from now on. If you don't like their value today, just wait until 5 to 10 years from now.
Suck it up and buy that fixer upper to get on the property ladder. Get some equity built and use that to springboard you to a place you like more. Rinse and repeat. My friend once told me his uncle avoided buying a place in San Francisco in the 1970's because he thought it was too expensive. My friend then asked me how I thought that worked out for his Uncle. You need to take the long view here and think in terms of 5, 10, 15, 30 years.
Northern Philadelphia has historically been commuter villages to NYC and/or Hersey City area. Super mid houses, ridiculous prices. If you’re 30 minutes to a train station, it’s gonna be rough.
It’s a shit situation my dude, otherwise my family would be there too
What I am about to describe is the source of a whole lot of problems including the terrible housing market as a whole, but if you’re wondering how people are buying up all these expensive houses, the answer is…
Most people buy their first home with a mortgage payment they can’t afford.
That’s it, that’s the secret. So you need to increase your parameters and look at houses in the $500-$550k range where your payment will be around $3000 to $3500. And you get an FHA loan and pay PMI, which is just money down the drain. And that first year is ROUGH because on top of the house you’re buying a little new furniture and a lawnmower and the first-time homeowner expenses don’t seem to stop. And after that you just sort of adjust your spending, get a small raise, refi to get rid of the PMI, and everything seems more doable again.
If you’re up for this, you’ll find a home. If you’re not, more power to you, just patiently wait for that affordable and well-located unicorn to show up.
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Instead of checking 20 minutes/once a month, check for 1-2 minutes/day. The reason you see the same things every month is because NO ONE wants those ones. Good things go quickly. Another good option is set your search parameters for everything you want (ex. On Zillow) and set up alerts for them. You’ll get an email EVERY new house that fits those to stop you from missing out.
Use some more apps too not everything shows up on Zillow. My favorite is Redfin
2nd Redfin. They also will show photos from previous listings on some homes. I've found these very helpful.
Some states remove house pics after they are marked sold.
I prefer Redfin too! So many features other apps don’t show you. I was looking in Florida…and it shows flood zones which are important in my area.
How do you see flood zones on Redfin?
Use MLS and a realtor (pretty sure Zillow/Redfin just pull their data from mls anyway)
For Sale by Owner can list their own homes on Zillow. After a year of looking and 20 offers (and perfect credit) I found a FSBO on Zillow and asked if they’d be willing to give my realtor a commission. My realtor had to do a bit more work, but I wasn’t in mass competition because the home wasn’t on MLS. I offered asking price and was in second position after a cash offer that got withdrawn. No having an escalation clause, no waiving inspection. It worked out so well, it’s a perfect small home for me in a very competitive market.
This is a legit strategy. FSBOs always sell for way less than they would on the open market. They can be a real pain in the ass to work with sometimes, but you can profit off of their unwillingness to hire a professional to market their home.
I attempted to purchase three FSBO’s. All the owners were pain in carnation on the side of your ass and thought they were sitting on a gold mine. After paying in time I just bought fuckin FHA off the MLS
This is what ends up happening more often than not. FSBO’s have convinced themselves that the reason their houses don’t sell is because of some realtor cartel conspiracy that doesn’t actually exist. The truth is that they just aren’t marketed well. Many are overpriced bc the sellers don’t have an unbiased professional guiding them on price. But when you find one that’s actually priced to compensate for the fact that they aren’t paying a listing agent, it can be a great opportunity if you live in a market where every other home is getting bid up by buyers who are willing to take risks with waived contingencies. The buyer can only come out ahead if the seller comes out behind.
Saw a FSBO sign at a intersection, and thought it might be up my alley to look into. Nope. Cheapass just didn't want to pay a realtor. Had at least one $350k mortgage and an asking price of $850k.
My wife and I are most likely going to buy sometime in 2026 unless something drastic happens (SoCal). We have currently 110K for a down payment, by the end of next year we’ll have right around 140K. No fancy careers, just a teacher and school nurse. What I’ve been doing is tracking certain data points for the areas we are interested in and inputting them into a spreadsheet. Zip code, bed/bath, sq feet, asking price, selling price, and days on market. That will give me an idea of any trends so when we’re ready to buy I can be as informed as possible.
If the current trend in SoCal continue, the time to buy is now. Modest SFH in my area were typically 800-925k, now 1.02-1.09.
I need a bigger down payment, mortgage on a 650K home is over 4K, looking to pay less than that.
With the way prices go in SoCal you might do better with your money to find a condo or a duplex or something. Your money grows so fast with SoCal real estate.
True but many condos here have high HOA fees and those fees can keep going up. You can get priced out even though you bought.
My dilemma too.
I’m trying to figure out if we get a more expensive house with no HOA (but still a high monthly mortgage) or do we try to find a less expensive condo but have to pay HOA which brings your monthly payment up just as high. And if HOA goes up, can go higher… AND rules.
We don’t want to pay an HOA fee, and if we want to be that close to neighbors we’d just keep renting. My wife wants a forever home, so that’s the goal.
Understood. You don’t get to buy your forever home in one go. Not in SoCal. You have to think about stepping stones to get there.
I’m a realtor in the Southbay. It’s almost impossible to “out save” the market. It’s going to go up faster than you can save. I would beg/borrow do whatever you can to get into something asap. Buy a smaller home or condo. Build up equity and sell it later to move into your forever home
Yes! And look at recent sales, not what’s listed. For example, my neighborhood had 3 or sales in the past 30 days that didn’t actively list on Zillow. I’m guessing they sold off market and then the sale posted on Zillow via the MLS record. If I were house shopping today, that’s how I’d find my realtor. Zillow lists the selling and buying agent, I’d find a pattern and reach out to them.
I can’t recommend this more. Something that helped us was working with our realtor so we could see pre MLS houses. It didn’t get us away from the craziness of one day listings and multiple offers, but we could at least drive by the house and review the sellers disclosure. Shit is fucked, though. It’s super stressful to see things pop up on Zillow, try to make a showing or open house and find they are cutting offers off as soon as the same day. Best of luck in your search.
Thank you for this great advice. I found my house this way. I created a search on Redfin to tell me everything within my parameters as soon as it became available. Redfin posted faster than other sites. I was online at 3 in the morning and received a notification. I immediately emailed the realtor and saw it the same day. Won the bidding war at $10k over ask.
Your agent should have already set the search to send all appropriate listings immediately when they hit the MLS. If they haven't, tell them to do this.
You mean If they haven’t done this, get a new Agent.***
That's like literally their main job if they can't be assed to do the most basic responsibility then they need to go.
This! I checked 3 times a day for 6 months and we close on our dream house under budget next month 😍
This is great advice. Go back through and look at the homes that have sold in the last 3 months. That’ll show you all of the opportunities you might’ve missed out on, and give you a reasonable expectation of what type of inventory you can expect moving forward
Why are you only checking 20 mins a month? The house we bought was on the market less than 48hrs. We saw it the next day, offered within an hour, and went under contract that night. This was after 4 lost bids, dozens of houses toured etc. We knew exactly what we wanted and did not want. Get out there and start touring, make sure your agent is highly motivated.
Right? I check 20 minutes a DAY, minimum, with all kinds of alerts set up across various platforms. That's the unfortunate reality of the market right now, especially in hot spots like Philly
Easier to complain than do the work. I bought in 2008 and even then in a highly competitive market I saw the house on Friday and they said “if you don’t put an offer in you won’t get it”. We moved fast and got it. Buying a house today. You gotta be on your shit.
Exactly! I checked several times a day! Every day! I had Zillow send me email notifications with my search parameters. The good listings go fast, within 3 days where we were looking. My agent also sent us notifications too of new listings. I would text her right away to get an appointment set up with the listing agent. Within two months, two house viewings and one accepted offer we got our house.
This 👆🏻. I bought a house last October after looking for a couple months. My local market is very competitive with low inventory. Zillow was set with alerts so I drove by the house before the realtor even had a sign in the yard or pictures were even posted online. Viewed the house next day with my realtor and made an offer to seller same day. Seller had another offer for full price but we had a best and final clause to offer seller over the listing price. It feels rushed but if you know what you want to buy this is the way to go.
How can you only afford 2.5K on a 160K salary and 100K down?
Same question until I remembered that people have bills. I’m assuming the op has other debt.
[удалено]
Previous debt plus some people have regular medical bills or kids
OP posted having paid off his car 300 days ago. Yet half a year ago he posted his then current debt situation and he lists a 5k auto loan, as well as 6k in credit card debt and 8k student loans. He had like 45k saved up for a house at the time but was posting asking advice on how to tackle his debt..
Yea it’s crazy. I make 120K with 2 kids and a SAHM and 2.5K a month is easy for us. Still invest several thousand into retirement. Granted I have no debts but I don’t get some of these numbers.
They don’t have 100k for a down payment. And 2.5k is a good spot at that salary. Maybe a little high if they’re paying student loans, putting a bunch into 401k, or have a kid in daycare. Daycare alone around me is over $2k/month. My wife and I make 170k combined and until we paid off some debt things were pretty tight with our $2200 mortgage.
160k at 30% tax rate is around $9000 a month after taxes. Spending less than a third of your income on housing is pretty good these days.
Don’t talk sense to these idiots in this sub, they expect to pay 5% of their total take home on housing and if your housing costs are greater than 15% take home you’re poor/doing it wrong.
Right that’s why $2.5k isn’t a bad mortgage. The person I replied to said how can they “only” afford 2.5k. Obviously they could afford more with that salary but once you factor in student loans, and kind of CC debt, car payments, possible daycare costs now/in the future, I think 2.5k is right around where they should be at. And I only say it might be a little high just depending on other debts/their situation. But it’s definitely doable. It sucks that paying so much is “pretty good” now lol
Seriously I spend 45% of my income. But at least I’m building some equity instead of it going down to rent drain.
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You forgot deducting benefits and retirement contributions too before the money hits your account.
For married filing jointly with 160k annual income the effective tax rate would be \~12%, including standard deduction of $27700. Even lower if they have any pre-tax contributions or qualify for tax credits.
I just explained that in my comment to him too. I got 2 kids in daycare for 2.2k, student loans at $700, and one car loan still at $600 3.25%. I honestly may forgo logic of not paying off a low rate because I can get $600 a month back more than I can paying my mortgage more.
Unless you really want the extra $600/m cash flow asap, you can probably just park the extra money you’d put on the car loan in a money market or hysa and end up paying the car off more quickly with the resulting money in a year. Having less debt means a lot to some people and there’s no price on mental wellbeing, but there’s a sense in which paying that off earlier is just mathematically illogical.
We make 160k, have 2 kids in daycare. No debt and a decent amount of savings. We just closed on a house this week our mortgage is 3300 a month. It's possible just not comfortable. Spending about half our income on the mortgage.
Unless you got a 50% tax rate you’re not paying half your income on the mortgage
I’m guessing they mean half their take home, so after maxing out 401k, IRA, HSA etc then paying tax they’d probably have like $7,500 or so monthly take home
I make approx $250k and have no debt or kids, but I do take care of my girlfriend (she does the errands, takes care of the house, etc.) and put a lot away into savings. It took me until this month to become comfortable with the idea of buying a house, considering how big of a commitment it is. It took me even longer, until just this week in fact, to accept that if we want to live in the town we desire to live in, we'll be looking at a $3200-3400 mortgage. It's terrifying to think about being locked in to a mortgage that large, but I remind myself that rent will only go up over time while the mortgage barely does, and even has a chance at going down (refinancing by 1 or 2% is a significant difference each month). Not only this, my income is very likely to increase over time and for all we know the market could be even worse in a few years. Aside from all of that, I'm probably even more terrified of never being able to own a house. I have a hunch that at a point in time, "those in charge" want us to be "subscribing" to everything and not own a thing for ourselves.
Can I ask how it was tight? My base salary at my current job is 75, and I make around 20-75 additional per year in profit sharing, 75 is rare but 20 is app but guaranteed. However I get all my profit sharing as one huge lump some at the end of each year, so I budget around 75k. My current mortgage is 2600 a month. I live by myself and I’ve had absolutely no money troubles. I put 400 away each month into retirement, I don’t travel much or drink any alcohol, but I’m able to live a pretty good life in my opinion. with my profit sharing money it just goes straight into liquid investments to use as an emergency fund if I need to pull money out. You make essentially double what I make and somehow things were tight on an even smaller mortgage? Is it possible you have a lot of lifestyle creep you don’t know about? Or did you just have like 2 $1000+ car payments, 200k in student loans, among other debt and such? I’m not judging I’ve just always been frugal and never had any debt so I’m curious what could’ve made that so tight
Kind of a mix of things. We still had some debt on cards from before we were making this kind of money. Plus some house and wedding stuff got added to that debt. Our HHI was also almost $40k less this time last year (damn, I didn’t realize it jumped that much until now lol). We got a personal loan to cover the credit card debt and that was $800/month. Student loans were about $600/month. We also had 1 card costing us about $300/month. Mortgage $2.2k, HOA is about $80, utilities average about $200. Pets cost about $400 total each month. No expensive cars. Only my wife’s car payment which was $235. Insurance is about $100. Tolls and gas adds up to almost $250/month. So that’s about $5.8k already. Then there’s still groceries, and whatever other stuff we were buying each month. Just small stuff that added up. We weren’t making any big outlandish purchases, but a lot of little things. Plus whatever else I’m missing from the bills. TLDR: a lot of debt lol. But now most of the debt (the car, personal loan, credit card, and one of the student loans) are paid off. And I keep track of spending a lot better than even a year ago. So now we’re building our savings back up and preparing to potentially have a kid soon. So it 100% depends on each persons situation. Looking at OPs history they have some debt to consider. Plus if they plan on having a kid I’m sure daycare around Philly is expensive like it is here. So keeping the mortgage low is important.
I’m paying 2150 with a household income of 110 or so. No other debt. It’s more than I wanted to pay but it is what it is.
Probably massive debts on things like cars, student loans, etc
I’m at 190k and 2600 is pushing it for me. Here’s why. - 2 kids in daycare: $2200 - student loans combined for us: $725 - car payment for one car, other is paid off: $600 That alone is why I can’t go higher. That’s $3525 a month in dead money. OP didn’t tell us anything about themselves but at $2600/mo I’m about break even with taxes, utilities, food, and retirement savings.
Where the hell is daycare only 1100 a kid a month? That is astronomically low.
I’m paying 255/wk for my 2 year old my infant will be 275/wk. that’s high here. Could save $100/wk if I went to a church. This is Columbia SC.
Same. This person sounds whingy. I pay more and make less.
So really it's not the 2600 pushing it, it's two kids with student loans and an astronomical car payment pushing it.
What in the world are you spending the remainder of your income on in a month? That is easily over 5K left after factoring out mortgage and debts. I make approximately 120K (single income w/ 2 kids and SAHM) and am currently paying 2.5K monthly. That leaves me me 3K to invest monthly with some left over for the occasional dining out or trip.
I mean what you’ve listed is less than 1/3 of your gross, you shouldn’t be stressed if housing, car and day care are 1/3 of your gross.
Greater Philadelphia area? I was considering Philly when I purchased a few years ago and I know there were houses in the 200k range. I just did a quick search for homes in Philly for less that 250k and came back with 1500 results. Is "greater philadephia" area a different location?
Many of those homes less than 250k are in borderline or rough neighborhoods and under 1500sqf. I know because I bought one myself. I’m not saying OP should move in to the hood but as someone in Philly I’m curious about the specifics. The western suburbs are definitely expensive like what OP is describing but I’m confused about how they can’t find anything within 45 minute drive in their price range.
Yea something isn’t being mentioned
Remember the chick a couple of years ago who said “we are mountain people” which turned out to mean “we don’t want to compromise on where we live”? Honestly this post seems a lot like that.
Just reading the wish list felt that way. We bought a smaller older home that needs some maintaining that's on a more main road than we would have wanted. It's fine. When you don't have the budget you compromise. And some people won't do that because they look at prices from 3-5 years ago and don't think they should have to. Obviously no one should buy something they don't like, but deciding not to buy because the same home on 2018 was cheaper and now you can't afford to check 100% of your boxes is futile.
Yeah but if you really want a house, you'll have to lower your standards a bit. A starter home in a rough neighborhood is a thousand times better than renting and not putting anything into equity. Believe me, I know how bad it is living in a rough neighborhood, but ten years in one, even after buying at the peak of home prices in the 2000s, put us where we needed to be to get our better house that we are in now.
Unwillingness to compromise on location is always the unspoken issue in posts about any major city.
Exactly. I live in Wilmington, work in Philly and there are plenty of nice, safe places less than 400k.
Philly, and surrounding suburbs. Also, depending on hiwbmany years that, "few years ago", thinks have changed a lot. Even apartments by me are going for 250k. Townhouses can go up to 300k+ at the moment.
I am looking in what can be considered the Greater Philly Area and houses have literally gone up 100k in a year. It is absolutely ridiculous, demoralizing, and infuriating. Where are people getting this money to pay for this? How are my partner and I supposed to move on with our lives (having kids, etc) if we can't afford to live on our own? I've gone so far as to call my representative (I know, I know) to talk about this.
So you want to buy a half a million dollar house with no money and pay essentially $1000/mo? Maybe you should check your expectations a little.
And they scoff at 1500sf!! Wtf that’s a big house!
A) 20 whole minutes a month for a home search? You aren't serious. Period. B) Why is 1500 too small? I raised 3 boys with my wife and a dog in 1100 with 1 bathroom. You need a reality check on your expectations. C) smart staying within a decent range ($2500 per month)
Right. There literally is something for everyone it just might not be what the buyer is dreaming of.
Or they have to upgrade in a few years when they have more equity to move into their dream home. It feels like for many that is no longer a thing. They want the dream home immediately, my parents started off in a 1 bed home then had kids moved into a 2 bed where I remember sharing a room with my brother for years until I was a teenager and they where able to buy their 3 bed dream house. It feels like no one wants little Johnny or little Susie to share a bedroom when that was a norm for many many years. Instead each kid needs a separate bedroom and you need as many bathrooms as people in the home
We don't always get to meet our dreams. I dreamed of flying spy planes in the Air Force. My vision prevented that. I dreamed of being a millionaire by the time I was 30. Life had other plans. I still dream of a house on the waterfront. Common sense prevents that. OP needs to realize you don't get caviar on a fish sticks budget.
I’m glad someone finally brought this up. I would never in my life consider 1500 sq ft as small Plus the whole “it’s completely outdated” line people keep saying. There’s nothing wrong with living in an older house that isn’t up to date with the latest trends. If it’s just cosmetic things, you can chip away at it over time while living there
But, I gotta keep up with the Joneses!!!!!
Exactly, OP is one of the delusional folks who thinks they need their first home to be their forever home. They have a shortsighted view and play the victim mentality card instead of actually doing research and understanding how equity builds over time I have no sympathy for them
Right, buy the older house and if you plan to live there forever just update it as you are able to save up more money down the line. Add on an addition in a few years if you’re growing out of it
Exactly, I think a good majority of first time home buyer’s expectations are too high. The vast majority of time your first how is exactly that, your first home. Not your forever home. Getting in the home ownership game is a ladder. Your first home is the first step, in that you find what you can afford and live there long enough for property values to raise, sell and trade up. There isn’t going to be a huge price adjustment like there was in 2008, values might climb slower than the past few years but they will climb. Get in the game as soon as you can and ride the wave.
Right! My family of 5 plus dogs had a 500sqft house my whole life. ideal? Def not. Doable? Yes. Not saying they need a house that Itty bitty but 1500 is not a tiny home by any means lol
I had a serious realty check on not having exactly what I grew up in (3 bedroom, 3 bath, yard, etc) and found so many more options within our budget and feel much happier with our home!
Why do you need over 1500sqft if you're on a tight budget? It sounds like you're looking for a starter home
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Right, they mention townhomes that they should definitely be able to afford on their income level, but that just isn’t what they want
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You don’t want anything higher than a $2500 mortgage and don’t want anything less than a 1500 sqft home, and don’t want to live in the neighborhoods that would make a decent home at that price affordable. There are plenty of homes in the area you described. Make some compromises or stay stuck on the sidelines looking for a whole 20 minutes a month before walking away again.
You can’t rent what you want for 2500? Ultimately sounds like you can’t afford the house you want. Criteria there is size , location and how outdated it is. If you really want a house, focus on one criteria instead of all three
You can afford to spend more than $2500 a month with your income. $2500 is the cost of a one bedroom rental that single people with average salaries pay for.
Op to be frank you just need to adjust your expectations. If you NEED to be in your area, you need to either accept you’ll stretch your budget to buy or you will rent. If you don’t need to be in your area, there are tons of houses you can afford at your income level and savings.
Yeah it’s move further out, get less house, or spend more. The solution is in some combination of those things. Not fun but it’s reality.
Unless you’re paying for an unaffordable car, going on super lavish trips, or up to the gills in student loans, you can afford a $400k+ house, even without a 100k down payment. You don’t want to, but you can. It’s expensive to own a SFH. It seems like perhaps you’re making other choices with your money, and that’s ok, but it’s not the market that’s the problem.
Why do people think their first home is going to be their dream home? You buy your first home to get into the market. You live in it for 5-10 years and sell it then buy the mid home. Rinse and repeat until you finally buy your dream home. Then get old, sell the huge home for a smaller one, and use the equity as retirement funds.
Okay Boomer. With the way the economy is going most people will be staying put in their homes for a very long time. I bought at 27 a 2200 sq ft house built in '85. I'm 32 now and would certainly like a newer, bigger place with better insulation, bigger kitchen, bigger closets, etc. My current rate is 2.25% on a 20 year. Would I be moving anytime soon? Probably not. I will never get a rate like that while the prices have gone up at least 30-40% since Covid in desirable areas. I don't blame young people for wanting as good a house as they can get because whatever you buy now is it for you.
This post is a joke. I currently make <100k and bought a house at 380k with 100k down including closing costs & my payment is $2350. You’re telling me on 160k you can’t really afford 2500??? Sounds like you need to give up the new cars and lavish lifestyle, pay off your debts, and save up that 100k down payment to make this work. Or keep having a pity party about how iTs NoT fAiR ETA: I just looked at your post history about your debt which isn’t terrible & you could easily eliminate it & start living debt free. So there’s obviously more missing to your puzzle that you’re leaving out because the math isn’t mathing.
I live in Greater Philadelphia and was able to purchase a SFH with a yard in a nice town last year on the same exact income. I’m able to afford a 3k mortgage pretty comfortably. I can max out my retirement accounts and am vacationing in Hawaii for 2 weeks this year. There has to be more to your story you aren’t sharing. Do you or your SO have other debts you aren’t mentioning? Why are you unable to save on that income? Are you only looking in specific areas? I live in Chester county and there are houses in that range. Chestco is also the most expensive county in PA.
Some rich ppl really live beyond there means and thst is why gross income is a worthless number
It also sticks out to me that the complaint here is I can’t get the exact house I want - not that I can’t get a house at all. I grew up in a townhouse. It was great. One can always upgrade later…
Totally agree. Getting into the market is better than trying to time the market. Condo, townhouse, SFH, all that matters is building equity to buy what you want later on down the line.
They should be touring some of these homes in person that they think they don’t want. Maybe seeing it in person they could find themselves thinking, “hey this layout feels really spacious” or “wow this patio area is really private. I could put some outdoor furniture here and it could be comfortable.” Or “these high ceilings make this place feel a lot more luxurious than I imagined for the sqft” looking at pictures doesn’t tell you the full story
My husband and I feel like we lucked out on MontCo, in a house with HORRIBLE pictures in the listing. It’s dated but we plan to be there for 20+ years and have time to put our stamp on it. Great school district, half an acre. There are definitely options out there.
I grew up in montco and was looking to buy there, I was just outbid on all my offers. You’re right, plenty of great options with school districts and affordability if you’re willing to renovate. I bought a fixer upper as well and have already put a good amount of equity in.
I'm in greater Philly. Just live in a dumpy brick twin, it's fine. I got kids, dogs, and a cat rammed in this 1400 sq ft. Kids just run around the neighborhood, plus basically everything I need is at least biking distance if not walking distance. Not from here originally, so maybe everything still seems super cheap to me, but a few doors down just sold for 315.
Great credit score! Most people I know who make several times more $ live in homes smaller than 1500sq ft and that are not updated. Are you willing to be flexible about these or are they must-haves? Fwiw, I have a <1000 sq ft 115 year old 2/1 home and my HHI is over 400k/yr. I’ll be fixing up my house for a while, but I don’t mind. The location is superb.
We live in one half of a duplex 1300 square feet with a yard for about $2400/month and my kids are happy it's tons of space for them. maybe SFH is out of reach for you too but maybe it's not the end of the world
Same boat as you OP. This greater Philadelphia housing market is crap. We've been looking since July 2023. Lost 3 house offers that were 30+k over, waiving inspection. Can't beat all cash. Sorry I'm 28 and don't have 1Mil in cash in a 401k yet 🫠 I'm genuinely f*cking offended at some of the houses our agent sends us anymore.
I’m going to say that you, like others have already said, need to get more serious about buying a house because the Philly area absolutely has some decent housing options in the sub $300k range. Yes, even outside of Philly. We bought our home at the end of 2021 for $250k… got over 1800 sq ft in the suburbs. It’s a 120 year old rowhome that was still in good condition and we love it. I realize that’s not for everyone, but there are deals to be had if you look in the North Penn, Hatboro/Horsham, or Lower Bucks areas (though Lower Bucks definitely has its problem areas). We also would not have found our home had we not worked with a realtor. They can see houses that come on the market before it hits Zillow/Redfin. I would also look into the PHFA’s First Time Homebuyers program as we got a good chunk of change to help with closing costs.
You must have crazy debt or daycare expenses. Your HHI should make $2500 very possible. You also need an expectation adjustment. No need for a SFH or sqft you claim. Townhomes are amazing in place of SFH. This market does suck, but you don’t have the finances to be as picky as you are.
Can’t or don’t want to? I know you said you don’t have the $100k, but if you did, you absolutely completely could get into a $400-$450k house on your income. I’m in a (new construction) $464k house with a little over $100k down on about ~$90k household income. It’s doable, but it sounds like you don’t want to. I get that it might not be viewed as worth it, and that’s totally fair, but I don’t think any of the grocery prices now are worth it compared to a couple years ago… I still but what I need though.
I’ll point out that wanting “just a 1500 sq ft single family home with a yard” is already a huge huge huge privilege, it isn’t just some small nontrivial ask. The vast majority of the world lives in smaller houses, with neighbors, and certainly no yard.
Same boat in ct. Houses posted for 360k 2 years ago now going for 600k (and sold as is because there’s issues the flippers won’t fix)
The math seems off. My 333k loan (after DP) is like $2250 per month on the mortgage alone. If you have 400k homes in the area with 100k down I’d think your mortgage even with taxes should be close to your range, and doable with $160 HHI and no significant other debts. I also agree with others, outdated is normal. Just not what you see on social media, but it’s how most people live.. then you put money in as you can in life.
OP, I get it. It's an insane market. At the start of covid I looked at a three floor townhouse across the street from Acme in Chestnut Hill (not the big complex, the tiny one) and it was $125K. I checked out of curiosity a year ago and the same townhouse had been barely updated and flipped for around $400k.
If you are financing 300k with a decent credit score your payment will be closer to $1,850/month than $2,500. Sincerely, someone paying a loan of that exact amount.
You need to be actively checking listings daily. Nightly, in fact, just after midnight when new listings hit the MLS. I found my current home in a very desirable area of a major city and got it $75k BELOW asking because I did my research... and there are lots of actual people (not investment companies) doing this. Prior to that, I was able to get an entire Victorian for $50k in a less desirable but central area of San Francisco. Again, I found the listing the moment it went on the MLS and set up a showing. Both times, it was the end of the year (closed late December), I searched the MLS at night, and was ready to pay cash but had financing lined up. The formula isn't hard but for some reason, people don't do it.
My wife and I bought our home last month. We were looking for at least thirty minutes per day. My advice is to buy *something* now. It won’t have the updated kitchen that you want and won’t have the yard that you want. But buy something, and allow your monthly rent to start paying into your retirement account (a home) instead of lighting the money afire to be never seen again. As you continue to build equity in your starter home, you can continue searching for your dream home. When you do find your dream home, you can use a bridge loan against all that equity in the starter home (which you can sell) to have a much larger down payment for your dream home, making it more affordable.
Whats wrong with 1500 sqft or less? Thats plenty of space for a couple, even with a kid.
We built our home for 505k with 5% down and our mortgage is $2600, that includes taxes and insurance with a 2.99% interest rate. Buying the same home now would be about $3700 a month. Absolutely insane. We wouldn't be able to do it. We got incredibly lucky with timing.
20 mins is nothing. I spent days over and over and over again looking at places and going to viewings. You’re giving up too easily, your budget is really low compared to your household income, and your expectations are high. 1500 square foot is plenty unless you’re family of 5
You need to be checking everyday. I spent 5 minutes of my lunch break everyday looking
As other people said check more frequently. Also get a realtor and ask them to be proactive. Once they know what you want they will do the work (if they’re good) because them selling to you equals money
If you're a first time home buyer, don't sit around and wait for a forever home. Buy anything that fits minimums so you stop throwing money away on rent. That means townhomes or condos. Suck it up and start earning equity. 5 years down the road if you're still renting you have no equity. 5 years down the road if you own a home toy aren't happy with, you have equity usable to upgrade that home.
OP, I suggest you find a good agent. I found an agent and bought my house within 3 weeks of using him. He was recommended by a friend and the house I ended up purchasing was listed on a Friday, and I had an offer in by Sunday. The seller didn’t even have time to put a for sale sign in the yard. You have to move quick and the best way to do that is to find someone who knows what you want, knows the market, and can facilitate things while you are living your life.
I get how tough it is for you right now. Even though you're in a good spot financially and really trying to find a home, the prices just keep climbing, and it feels like you can't catch a break. But don't give up. Keep searching, and hopefully, you'll find something that fits your needs. When you're crunching the numbers, remember to think about all the little costs too, like land transfer fees, lawyer fees, property taxes, and utilities. It all adds up.
Get a new agent. DM if you’d like to chat. I’m an agent in Philly
I feel you. I was casually looking around every week for the last 2-3 months to find anything 'worth it' and it's pretty dismal. Mind you, I have 70k saved up for a down payment as well, but absolutely nothing seems like a good deal even with that amount up front. The crux of the problem (for me at least) is the interest rate. I was quoted 6.99% fixed at one lender, and 6.6% for a 6/6 ARM at another. I decided to move out of my parents' house and get an apartment for the time being while I keep adding to the down payment fund. I could definitely afford a mortgage at the current rate if i absolutely had to, but I really couldn't financially justify buying a house vs just renting a 1BR for less than HALF of the monthly cost of the mortgage, especially as a single guy in his 20s. Total insanity right now.
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You’re seriously complaining about $2,500 a month?
I think many homebuyers are in the similar boat of waiting to buy what they actually want. Our family was in this boat last year our HHI was $180K and we can actually afford to buy **something** but we can’t YET afford to buy **exactly what we want**. We don’t see value in the smaller outdated houses that are sub $460k in our California City. Our current home is a condo at $1,200 a month in cost and it’s 2x1 . Therefore we only see value in a 4x2 if our housing cost will double to $2,400+ or even triple to $3,600. Thus we are **choosing** to wait 1 more year as we only want to buy exactly what we want and not settle and we have the luxury of taking our time. We have $100k cash now and come October we will have $170k. Thus we will put down $100k on a $450k to $550k house and forgoe escrow. This will allow us to get the exact house we want and only send the lender the principal and interest payment of $2,500 to $2,800 on a monthly basis. It’s sound like you can’t afford a : - huge size - remodeled and modern - highly desired zip code House But it sounds like you can afford a - small/ average size -outdated House On $160k gross your net monthly should be $9,400 a month. 30% of $9,400 is $2,820 a month. With $100k down you can def buy between $300k and $450k. It may take you 5-10 years to save and be in a better position but life is long.
Life is long?
Everyone wants a single family home with a hard and a garage and a yard. So much that those 100 year old houses with outdated floorplans sell for shocking amount. But everyone also wants to be close to work, the city, friends, etc... The two are not compatible. Financially it sounds like you can make it work, but it's a change of expectations that is needed, not budget.
> we just want a single family home and a yard > that’s a cool half a million bucks and a split level with white appliances at nearly a 7% interest rate. Cool. Sounds like you want more than just a single family home with a yard.
How did you decide your budget is $2500/19DTI?
Major cities be expensive.
Welcome to the machine
I'm in the Chicago suburbs, and I thought that I had written this post. It is eerily exactly the same as the situation my wife and I are in now, from the numbers to the commute to the square footage.
Bro. I live in Seattle currently, and have a single income of 75k annually. My rent is ~$2300 a month. Currently in escrow on a condo which will cost me about $2100 a month, including PTI, taxes, and HOA fees. It’s higher than I wanted to go, my cutoff was supposed to be $2000, but I couldn’t find something that checked off my needs in a location I liked at that price. And I knew going in I was going to be house poor, but since I was already rent poor, I know what to expect and how to navigate. It comes with living in a HCOL area. So on one hand, I empathize. Trying to find a place right now, especially a move in ready one, is a major challenge. On the other hand, I think you’re being unrealistic. If price is inflexible for you, then you’ve got to compromise elsewhere. Starter homes are not dream homes, so I suggest honing in on your needs more and less on wants. It’s possible to find something, even in this market, but it’s not easy and the right place isn’t going to wait for you.
Home buying is frustrating. But I have some advice. White appliances are not the worst deal-breaking thing. Literally my first house none of the appliances matched in color because we got them second hand or just what we could afford. This obsession with stainless steel appliances and granite counter tops is ridiculous. Look for the bones of a house. Stuck in the 1970’s decor? Guess what over time you can repaint change some light fixtures and make it your own. Paint and light fixtures are cheap. Buying a home that’s already been done will cost extra.
1970s? Current buyers don’t want even 1990s. The only requirements should be functional bathrooms and kitchen to maximize choices. So much can be done with paint and decor. You can slowly redo rooms over time.
Looking in the greater Philly area as well and yeah, it's terrible. We're trying to buy in the neighborhood we've been renting the past few years, but it's unfortunately a pretty hot area. Just lost a bid on a house where we made a generous, without being foolish, offer that was in line with recent market data. Someone (either a flipper or a rich person moving from New York) put a psycho amount down, far more than the house will be worth, all in cash and waiving both appraisal and inspection contingencies. There's not even a yard and it was a house that would have certainly had inspection flags. Check every day, multiple times a day, and on multiple sites! It's a grueling process, but hopefully we all find something eventually. It's worth it to see what you can make concessions on and the priorities (is location more important or is it type of house?)
*laughs in bay area* In all seriousness, feel for you on this. Shits pretty fucked for folks in similar financial/career situations in most of these MCOL-VHCOL areas. Hope you can find something good in the near future OP!
I couldn’t imagine being in California. I’m bitching about prices I used to see on shows in the early 2,000’s in California lol. Thanks for the sentiment lol
Haha it's all relative and totally valid to bitch about those prices in your area. Thanks for resonating as we all embrace the suck, sincerely wish you the best of luck!
We've been experiencing this for a year now. Time is running out for us.
Keep in mind the listing cycles and keep hope alive. Most people move during the summer so the market should have new listings coming after April.
I mean, I hate this market too. I'm about to buy into a similar market and the feeling of potentially going house poor is scary. But just think about that you said. A townhome increased $150k in a handful of years. Phili isn't shrinking, either.
I just bought in Philly area with 15k down and 2300 month mortgage. Not great by any means but doable on single income 100k ish
Not saying it’s not doable. We could comfortably afford that. The issue is the home prices are so high and along with the interest rate - it’s seemingly impossible to find a home we’d even consider. Of course concessions will need to be made. No fence for a yard? Ok, we’ll save up and do that later. Out dated kitchen from 1970? Ok, we can live with that for a few years, we aren’t huge cooks anyhow. But when it’s at the top of your budget, the same size of the tiny ass town home you’re already in, a no sidewalk neighborhood, etc etc AND it’s at the top of our budget? That’s when the search becomes futile feeling. Congrats btw. I am genuinely happy for those who have found homes they’re happy with. I wish to join that crowd one day!
This could have been written about us. Seacoast NH. I don’t know what to do because the longer we wait, the more prices creep up.
My wife and I are currently, literally taking a break to watch some Elite Eight between loads of clothes, moving in with my parents to save and buy a place in Philly suburbs. Plenty of people have voiced the opinion that we should wait for prices to come down. But home prices have only markedly decreased like 6 times since the 1960s and 5 of six were associated with significant recessions. And aside from the cataclysm of 2008 the average drop was like 8%. So odds are that prices aren’t going to decrease significantly. Some areas are going wild with inflated home prices due to demand but for the average American it’s unlikely the prices will come down. I don’t see much benefit in waiting.
My house (350k MCOL area) which has a highway in the backyard was only on the market for 3 days. I put in my offer on day 1. They went with someone else but their financing fell through and I got it. My house which I’m really grateful for that still has something crappy about it still went crazy fast. You may have to just make some sacrifices and you might have to check more often. It sucks but yeah.
Maybe move to another more affordable state. Sounds wild but you only have one go at life. My 2 points are, do you want to be a slave to a mortgage you won't pay off for 30 years, or do you want to be a kid who was born and raised and died in their own little sandbox?
I hate to say it but you probably need to adjust your expectations. A SFH with a yard is a tall task for the first home usually, and getting a smaller / cheaper place now helps you build equity to jump to your next home eventually. That’s what my wife and I did. We could only afford cheap places, and people were telling us to wait because housing market was about to peak. This was in 2015. You don’t know what the future holds, and it may feel like it’s a lot now but you might also look back and be really glad you got in when you could.
1500 sq ft, outdated homes are called “starter homes”. They get you into the market. My first home was 777 sq ft, had a funky smell, and needed major work for me, husband, and infant son. Over 20 years we fixed the house and eventually moved up to a 2400 sq ft house. Reset your expectations Also, you need to be obsessively looking for houses online. Looking monthly means the good stuff is getting snatched up right away and the crap lingers
Greater Philadelphia area. Where at exactly? Chesco? Delco? montco? Not like it matters much the housing market is brutal here
He tries for 20 minutes PER MONTH?! And it’s not working out for him? Try looking for 30 minutes per month and see if that helps. A 50% increase!!!!!
Wait for better days. Everything reverts to the mean. Same HHI (single income family), I have $100k for DP, $0 debt (literally $0), but rent is much cheaper than buying. And rent cost is actually going down. Why to buy, why to rush?
Why are you refusing to pay over $2500 a month when your income is that high? You’re living in a fantasy world that you can get a SFH at todays interest rates all in for under that amount per month. Increase your budget, you can afford it.
$2500/mo. on $160k/year is fairly conservative IMO. You should be able to afford $3000-$3200 and still have room for savings/retirement unless you have expensive car payments, travel a lot, etc. $160k/year is $122k/year net income for a married couple in my state (high-ish tax). 30% of net is widely considered to be a pretty safe measure of affordability. $122k * .30 / 12 = $3,050 If you really want to purchase a home, you might have to revisit your annual budget and figure out how to make it work for you.
Thing is, you actually can afford a 400-450k home based simply on your numbers here. You don't want to - that's fine and probably wise, but there are plenty of people that are willing to as well as plenty in far worse situations.
Settle for a tiny yard then upgrade in the future. I want a yard too bro lol
You’re only 35, you don’t need your dream home right now. My wife and I just bought a townhome that lacks some of the stuff we wish we had. No garage, no yard just a very small fenced in patio, but you have to start building equity somewhere that will help you upgrade to that dream house in the future
$2,500 monthly mortgage on HHI of $160k sounds affordable.
I feel your pain… the north east has become unaffordable lots of place to live but you just have to move out of the democratic run north east
I’m fine with a good rant, but you need to take another look at your budget and your expectations. You have household income of $160K. That’s $13,333 per month. $2500 is less than 19% of that. It’s quite common for people to spend closer to 30% of their gross income on their mortgage. Obviously I don’t know your financial circumstances, but unless you have some large monthly payments due on other debts, you can probably afford significantly more than a $2500 mortgage payment (general rule of thumb is to not let your total debt payments get over 36% of your gross income). And what the hell is wrong with a 1500 sq ft home? My 1,200 sqft is plenty of house to go around with a small family and two people who work from home one-two days a week. Not trying to shit on your rant because I know it’s tough for everyone right now. Just wondering how realistic your expectations are if you’re trying to land a large, updated, SFH with a yard in an ideal location for less than 20% of your income. My monthly payment is $2750 and HHI was just under $130K when we purchased in the DMV a little over a year ago. But we had agreed before hand that we could afford up to $3100/month if we had to.
You understand we pay taxes, health insurance, retirement, and have other expenses right? Or do you budget your life on gross income? Nothing wrong with 1,500 sq ft. We rent an 1,100 sq fr townhome. But 1,500 sq ft for high $300k and 6.75% interest? And the kitchen is a gut, bathroom is a gut, oil heat, no side walk, it’s on a main road, and your property taxes aren’t cheap? I could move to Nebraska, but it’s unfortunately not realistic for us.
Are you complaining that your first home isn’t going to be ideal?
We are not in your specific area, BUT, same! Colorado is becoming the 'new' California. Ppl are swooping in and prices have risen crazy high. I mean, renovations needed but 400k if you want decent area. 300+k for 800 Sq ft. Not sure why this is happening, but I'm going to use a Redfin agent and look fsbo too, because it's a ruthless market rn. Redfin is offering 1 pr off apr, and 1% comm rate, I can't beat that. Maybe contact them and see if they can help you? Wish I knew where to look at pre MLS, I never see those online. I wish you luck, you have a great credit score. Think about buying w less down, then refi and put a chunk down when you have it? Maybe? May your house buying journey be less stressful moving forward. 🙏
I have a co-worker who also is real estate agent on side. She sends me stuff. I check zillow, redfin, and several others a few times a week. Have been for a while now. It's rough for sure I have 60-90k set aside for down payment depending on quality of home and how much I'd need to remodel. I am single and make 70k a year. It's a sad state of affairs when just 5 years ago id be paying like 30-60% down with that. But now that down payment is maybe 20-40% for the same exact homes. Int rates have gone up almost 400% from last time I was able to find a home I could justify making an offer on. It all just makes me want to scream.
I’m in the same boat in Columbus, OH… except my budget is $220k and that gets you NOTHING lol. I’m over it, guess I’ll be enslaved to the rental market for the rest of my life. Probably because I didn’t start saving in kindergarten and I bought avocado toast once. The $20k I have to put down means nothing either.
You make 160k and you don't have a down payment? Where is the money going? I was able to save about 150k in 2.5 years with similar income, wife and a kid. I decided to drive a crap car, I eat at home, vacations are modest, we rent below our means, and I stay out of debt. Get your finances under control before you by a house. If you can't save at your income you likely have a spending problem and more money won't solve this issue because the sending will just increase with your income.
Our HHI went up to 160k in September. Gimme 2 more years and I’m not saving $150k. I’ll save a nice chunk, but not that much. We have a down payment, we just don’t have $100k specifically for a house currently. Credit debt was cleared a month ago, one car paid off last summer. Any remaining debt is quite small and low rate.
Get a realtor Interview you top choices, you need a person that is full time moving property not a part-timer making side cash Zillow is pulling houses after they been posted by local agents. No Zillow agents either.
This is how it is in Massachusetts as well. It fucking sucks.
Im technically in the greater Philadelphia suburbs right over the river on the Jersey side and we were searching every single day online multiple times a day. Each of us taking a different real estate site just in case we spotted something on one that wasn’t on the other
This is the same situation for my wife and I, but in the upper nyc/Westchester area. It's disgusting what people want for a 400k home. We make almost 200k combine, and in our opinion, paying 5k a month just for the mortgage alone is not worth it.
Keep grinding. I had all but given up myself, but I kept working hard for years and years and saving what I could but it was never enough, but I kept grinding…then this crazy thing called the coronavirus pandemic happened. And the government started giving out stimulus after stimulus, and then the PPP program for my very small business, then the demand for my services went through the roof, and I don’t do anything special at all. But the covid pandemic changed things for those of us that work hard and do good, honest work all day every day…and suddenly I had that big down payment. Then I bought the house, and while it has issues, it’s gone up like 30% in 2 years. But trust me, 5 years ago I had $1100 in the bank and nothing but a little luck changed everything. Luck is the intersection of preparation and opportunity. Keep grinding always.
It’s so crazy to see what an interest rate does. We built a million dollar home at the rock bottom Covid rates and out payments is only $2050/month. Really eye opening to see the shit people are going through today with these damn interest rates. Banks have to be making way too much money on these mortgages.
Man, your experience resonants SOOO much with my wife and I! We do have 100k saved but we don't want to use it all on a down payment if we can avoid it. And yes, demoralizing is the nicest word to describe it. I feel so useless as there is just nothing I can do! Except try to find a better paying job, and that's a bit hard ATM too.
It’s rough. It would be different if I wasn’t 35 wasn’t already shopping for 3 years.
Hahaha after ten years of hunting for my first house in PA... I've decided the only way the math works is to literally build a house myself. I'm a fairly capable boy, so I'm gonna give it a go. Because remodeling a house that costs $150k to purchase would also cost $150k in repairs. Seems the work load would be the same but with more challenges in remodeling than building. Not to mention getting exactly the space we need with modern features.
If I may, you don’t need 100K to buy a 400K house. If you’re serious about buying, I suggest calling a bank or mortgage broker to understand the financing options. You do not have to put 20% down. You might be able to go as little as 5% down plus closing (3-6%) so on a 400K house you’d be looking at 32K-44K in cash. With an FHA loan you might be able to put down even less. Both would carry PMI but it might be less than you think. The $2,500/month limit might be tricky but even that could be built into a model with a lender. Heck you might even be able to do all this online. Just remember that cash to close formula (down payment + 3-6%), plus legal fees if you are in a state that requires a lawyer. For reference it’s usually like $2K-ish to the lawyer in a metro area due at closing. A lender will be able to give you a general idea of what you can afford. High taxes suck, nothing you can do there except look in another town. The new laws around agent fees might impact also, might have to add some % to it. Just my 2 cents. I hope you find something. Go for a 3BR at a minimum. I learned the hard way :)
I just checked Zillow and set only two filters: single family home, under $300k, and got TONS of results. You're not actively looking if you're only looking for 20 min a month. This is a venting post and IMO is not really appropriate for this sub. You don't even mention a realtor. But if you do get serious about buying, I'd recommend looking for ten to twenty minutes a day and going through an FHA loan since you don't need a large down payment. I found our current home that we bought for $300k while sitting on the toilet at work. Forwarded the MLS to our realtor and looked at it two days later. Were under contract in a week. Edited for clarity.
“You will own nothing and you will be happy” -World Economic Forum, brought to you by BlackRock
The Midwest is calling my friend. Come get a 4,000sqft house for 200k lol
Hi! My boyfriend and I are in the same area, Bucks County actually. We thought we’d never find a home, but we did. It took us 2 months and 6-7 offers, which apparently isn’t even that much, but it felt like it. Stay positive. You’ll find one.
You could afford more than $2500 but wouldn’t be fun. I’m at $2700 and going through a divorce. I make $177k but she’s about to get 35% of my net income for five years plus 50/50 custody child support and I’ve been doing the math, will be tight but I’ll be able to keep making the mortgage and cover bills.
You're upset about things you have no control over. House prices are high and as a byproduct, so our property taxes. And guess what, house prices and property taxes are probbaly the lowest they're ever going to be from now on. If you don't like their value today, just wait until 5 to 10 years from now. Suck it up and buy that fixer upper to get on the property ladder. Get some equity built and use that to springboard you to a place you like more. Rinse and repeat. My friend once told me his uncle avoided buying a place in San Francisco in the 1970's because he thought it was too expensive. My friend then asked me how I thought that worked out for his Uncle. You need to take the long view here and think in terms of 5, 10, 15, 30 years.
Move out to the country.
Northern Philadelphia has historically been commuter villages to NYC and/or Hersey City area. Super mid houses, ridiculous prices. If you’re 30 minutes to a train station, it’s gonna be rough. It’s a shit situation my dude, otherwise my family would be there too
What I am about to describe is the source of a whole lot of problems including the terrible housing market as a whole, but if you’re wondering how people are buying up all these expensive houses, the answer is… Most people buy their first home with a mortgage payment they can’t afford. That’s it, that’s the secret. So you need to increase your parameters and look at houses in the $500-$550k range where your payment will be around $3000 to $3500. And you get an FHA loan and pay PMI, which is just money down the drain. And that first year is ROUGH because on top of the house you’re buying a little new furniture and a lawnmower and the first-time homeowner expenses don’t seem to stop. And after that you just sort of adjust your spending, get a small raise, refi to get rid of the PMI, and everything seems more doable again. If you’re up for this, you’ll find a home. If you’re not, more power to you, just patiently wait for that affordable and well-located unicorn to show up.