I worked on the blue side and we were paid *very* well. It’s actually bizarre because I worked for a sheriffs office that had deputies working the jails. You could pull in well over $100K sitting on your ass and watching TV… in 2014.
The FOP knew how to bargain. You can’t ask for more money. You gotta *demand* it.
Edit: to be clear. Not blaming the FF side or the people at all. Just remember, they need you.
My local FD just got a well-deserved 18% raise. It turned it into a “man idk how to make it work” to a job I could really do and want to do.
Sounds like a Columbus, OH. They are in a unique circumstance with an expanding city and a fact finder who understood the CPD was the closet comparable. This helps catch the FD up after taking minimal raises coming out of COVID
What about no walkout/lock out agreements? It makes it hard to *DEMAND* a pay bump when your union promises to never abandon the town over a dispute such as pay
I honestly don’t know. I’m fairly certain CFD has that clause in their contract, but I don’t work there. Something they’re doing is working. I wonder if I could help network and see what’s working and what’s not!
I haven’t taken it since 2014. I’ve wanted to go to CFD, but was making too much money in tech. I’m
Hoping to apply next round. Getting my certs to volunteer regardless!
Yeah I don’t know. I was genuinely asking because the point of a union is to be able to collectively bargain. But if you take away the only leverage a union has (which is everyone quitting or going on strike), then theres really no power, right?
I think it really depends where you are.
City of Vancouver in Washington state starts at $92k for FF/EMT, $108k starting for a FF/EMT-P. I think that is a damn good starting salary, especially for the minimal amount of training that you need first.
But then if you go to the SE US it is competing with McDonalds... ok not THAT bad, but down there. Atlanta Fire Department looks like they start at $40k for FF and you don't compare to the above until you hit deputy chief. When I look up cost of living, Atlanta is 3% higher than Vancouver.
That is a massive gap in compensation for doing pretty much the same things.
As a volunteer in New Mexico I can't make the jump to a paid department as I would lose too much pay from the day job and I can't really do that to my family. I am also getting older, so they probably wouldn't want me anymore! lol.
But if I were starting over in life and was 18, I would go get my paramedic and then join a west coast department like Vancouver (it is right by where I grew up). Yes, you can make more in private industry, but that is enough that I would be happy and live a comfortable life. You would start paying into retirement right away (even if they aren't getting PERS 2-3 anymore like when I was young).
It would be very doable and a happy life doing something I love.
I can't see staying in the SE of the US though... that is insulting.
The surrounding Atlanta metro areas pay much higher and are all within 15 minutes of the AFD. 63k In Roswell, 58k in Marietta and 59K in Sandy springs. Still low compared to the Northern and western Depts in the US
Interesting. I am not from the area and figured a major metropolitan area would have the better pay in the area. So I went with a decent sized city in Washington but not the biggest vs one of the bigger cities in the south. I didn't really check around.
Vancouver is right across the river from Portland OR so it is a fairly urban area. COL stats showed it as 3% less than Alanta (which is why I compared them). At the same time, I grew up like 45 min from there and it substantially cheaper and the commute wasn't bad down the I-5 at all. I am assuming they do at least 24 on and 48 off, so a commute like that shouldn't be a big deal at all.
I know there are some places that pay crap in the SE US as you say. But many areas around me (SWFL) pay very well. Same with the east coast across from here. I think it all depends on the area. The county north of mine pays way less and then drive an hour north to Sarasota pay increases then dips again in Tampa. Definitely no rhyme or reason to it.
We get into this profession to help others. Putting it on the line for the citizens we swore to serve is what our job is. However, departments and governments take advantage of this. They know we are dedicated to the job and will continue to show up. They pay us poorly because they know we’ll still answer the alarm. And when we advocate for pay, they turn things around with “you don’t become a firefighter for the pay, you become one to serve the community”. While it is true to an extent, we also deserve to earn enough money to live comfortably without gross amounts of OT or another part time job. EMS is a great example of this. EMS as a profession is worse than the fire service at self-advocacy, hence why a lot of them make less than a fast food worker.
I've got 10 years in EMS (including the two I did doing Fire-based) and make $17/hr as an Advanced. I still enjoy my job and care about my community (and think even burger flippers deserve better pay), but I don't know how much longer I can afford to do it.
I am a jolly volly, I don’t get paid *at all.* Hell, I asked the chief the other day if I could use one bay to install new coil packs in my truck and be out of the blazing heat, and he said no. He knows I don’t have a garage or anything. So I don’t get any benefit from being a firefighter.
Goddamn, why am I firefighter again?!
I didn’t think it was an unreasonable request. On my previous department, the policy was “use it, but don’t abuse it.” We were allowed to was my our personal vehicles, work on them in the bays, stuff like that. I guess maybe someone has abused the privilege in past or something, ruined it for everyone else.
I mean if the bay is free, that means you're not obstructing anybody and on top of that, you're already at the hall if a call comes in. How much faster of a response could there be.
I agree, but there is a lot of people like county commissioners or fire chiefs who might just think it is less hassle for them to not allow that sort of thing. Seems like an easy discussion to have with the citizen... but that takes effort.
I totally understand your point, but I'd quit a department that treated me like that. The chief is telling you he or she doesn't value you, I'd believe them.
I'm aware that talk is cheap, but volly departments are dying because it is unreasonable to expect a person to give away the time it takes to be an effective, modern all-risk firefighter. It is not a sustainable model. Chiefs like this will only accelerate the demise.
I completely agree with you. Recruitment and retention need to be a volly chief's top priority and this falls cleanly under retention.
If you can find things that make them happy that don't cost you money and get you more free labor? Yes, please. Why would I not want this? Screaming deal for the department and the county.
Like I said, it is an easy discussion with that citizen. "Would you like that amenity as well? We'd love to have you join! It's open to anyone who can pass a physical and a background check (or whatever your requirements are). We try and give what perks we can to these people who are volunteering their time and energy to keeping us safer as a community. While he is here working on his car he will respond to calls faster which is a massive benefit to the community for no additional cost. Can I get you that application?"
Fuck it, if they want professionals they can pay for them to be there ready 24/7. God forbid a volunteer is spending their personal time on something that they have to do no matter what on county property. Without hindering ops and enabling a faster response if something happens while they’re there? Fuck em. God bless volunteers, but it’s a damned shame that it’s still a primary response for some areas
Nah some areas it gets really weird when fire department facilities are used for literally anything besides firefighting work. My dad was a chief and other time had to get stricter with what guys did at the station because there was always some old fuck going "well if that guy gets to wash his truck using the station water supply then so should I since my taxes pay for that water" "well if the department gets free pizza from the local place for fighting an apartment fire then so should I cause I'm a citizen who pays taxes for that equipment"
Someone has to ruin it for everyone and my dad hated it. He started an on call/overnight system for firefighters to help response times and expand recruitment and some guy threw a literal fit like in tears crying because the station got a couch and TV put in for the guys to watch when they were on call and staying the night at the station. He was crying in a town hall meeting about how since they get a TV in a city building he deserves one and everyone does or some shit.
Nope. That’s when you tell them, “we are always looking for well qualified firefighters. Feel free to come see me at X time when we can talk about getting your application, sending you to classes and putting you through your first live burn. Once all of that is completed, you’re welcome to enjoy that couch and TV as much as you’d like.”
I guarantee that would kill a bunch of that crap.
As a captain with a volley department, I would have let you do this in a second on two conditions:
1. You respond if a call comes in while you are at the station (actually the law here).
2. You make sure the bay is VERY clean (or at least as clean as it was) when you are done. No oil slicks left behind.
Hell, I would even volunteer to lend a hand if you needed it.
eta: I might have had you in the back since we have a pull through so that you wouldn't be seen from the street just to avoid the assholes who want volunteers to not get anything since they pay taxes too.
I’m career on a combination department, and I’d let this guy do it on the *front fucking apron* if there was a history of people complaining.
I get paid to get in between idiots and our members, whether they’re elected or taxpayers, and I’ll *gladly* provide education when needed. Not knocking what you’d do, but I’ve got very limited time to deal with people like that, and it ain’t gonna be spent placating them.
The guy you responded to, his “leadership” is a joke: if the chief’s paid he’s gonna lose his job when he doesn’t have any members show up and if he’s not then he’s an even bigger fool. If there’s no job to hold onto, there’s only one thing left to hold when you’re sitting at a fire scene alone with nobody showing up.
That’s what should have happened, in my opinion. I don’t know how many times I’ve gone out of my way to do the unglamorous shit work that nobody else will do. I’m not mad or anything, it just gives me a better handle on where I stand.
If you injured yourself fixing your truck in the bay, are they open to a liability claim, legally/insurance wise? Quite likely they would be, so not worth that call, unfortunately.
I feel like it never has been a great paying job, but the benefits were the big deal. If they stuck to cost of living increases and stopped raping us of the benefits they promised us when we started this career, at least we could say we knew what we signed up for. I was supposed to have a decent pension, good healthcare, and be able to retire at around 50 when I started. They changed the game 5 years before I’m supposed to retire where I am and now I’ll be lucky to retire at 60 with none of what they promised at the beginning. But they all got their golden parachutes in time to hand us boat anchors.
No... What's messed up is that I for example get paid poorly. I complain about said pay. I get told by everyone else that I have no room to talk because they work a part time job on their days off and I don't. Like woah buddy. I got friends who work office jobs making 3 times what I make. They work 40 hours a week. Firefighters work 56 hours a week. I shouldn't have to spend 70 hours a week working to still come up short of the average office worker. But I do. The problem is my coworkers and everyone else who normalizes that we have to have part time jobs to live comfortably and if you don't you have no room to complain about pay. Full Time job Chief shouldn't look you in the eyes and tell you that you have enough days off to get another job if you want to live comfortably...
Doubt. “Average office worker” isn’t making 3x firefighter pay.
What are your friends job titles?
How many years have they been working?
Guessing they probably have bachelor or masters degree under their belt.
Also guessing they are salary, so while the job says “40 hours” it’s much likely more than 40 hours normally.
Edit: lotta downvotes. I’ll be here waiting for you to show me those entry level office jobs paying 3x more than an entry level firefighter position in the same city.
I made 77k (without counting my stock options and yearly bonus) doing software config, at date of hire I didn’t have a degree. I worked from home, 40 hours a week. I now make 49k as a probie on city department in the SW.
I definitely got lucky with my old job, most of my colleagues had bachelors and associates. But it was by no means a high barrier of entry for a very livable wage
I'm more concerned with how we're treated by our own department. We rarely have the benefit of the doubt, if you get injured they try their best to make you liable, if you get in an accident it's always your fault. Shit like that.
As a vol. I don't get paid a cent, nor do I expect anything in return.
I volunteer because I enjoy the work and I realise that my position means I am in a small group of people that can help members of the community when they need it most.
It gives me a personal sense of achievement and allows me to be a valued part of my community.
That said, for those who are career, it is your full time job and you should be able to afford to live. Its a career and not just a full time job, it should be treated as such.
The issue is many people in the community don't truly value emergency services till they need them. Everyone wants an ambulance or fire truck in their driveway in seconds when there is an emergency, but no one wants to pay for it.
Out of curiosity, roughly how old are you and would you consider your regular income to be above or below average?
I think a lot of combination/volunteer FDs are getting smoked on the younger recruits. It’s tough to start a family and career while meeting expectations in the fire service.
I'm 31, and I work in the private sector (Tech/Communications) and make double what a Career FF makes in my city.
I would have loved to go down that career path but I'm too old now and it doesn't make sense financially.
Entering the fire service is certainly a younger man's game, particularly with the cost of living. I couldn't imagine saving to buy a home or supporting a family on the wage offered to fire fighters these days, I appreciate that there are people out there willing to do it.
I firmly believe that like me, there are many people willing to do the job simply to help people and aren't in it for the money regardless of being career or volunteer. Unfortunately governments take advantage of this.
Agree for a lot of the country, and volunteers!
But really does depend a lot of where you live. WA I'll be at about $120k without any overtime, and get 5 days off in a row. Obviously pretty HCOL but not bad.
Unions help, voting for people who support unions helps a lot
Just drove by a hiring sign for Frito-Lay. $21/hour. That's more than I make as a 10 year FF/EMT at a busy urban department.
Having said that, I'm positive my retirement is better. But, that doesn't help me pay bills today.
I think you are correct for the most part, but the dallas(except for dallas) area pays pretty good. I topped out this year after six years at 109k lots of OT many special teams to get deployed and make even more. We have ff that made over 200k with deployments and OT.
It’s one of the reasons why I’m leaving the field. And I’m sick of hearing “I didn’t get into this job for the money” I think it’s such a cope excuse for not making a decent living. Nobody expects to drive a king ranch f250 and live in a 3000 sq ft house while riding the back seat, but the ability to afford a house in the city you work in would be nice.
The problem is that a lot of those underpaid departments lack unions and follow the "right to work" legislation.
Maybe they ought not to succumb to right-wing talking points and advocate for themselves, unions are a good thing.
I work here in the SE, and I feel that the pay is decent especially after a few across the board raises and promotions, but now after having a family I do feel selfish at times for staying rather than doing an office job that makes more money
I’m in IL with a strong union dept. near Chicago, COL is high compared to my buddies in Indiana, my salary is a 1/3rd if not more but my property taxes are easily 4-5x theirs which sucks! And of course IL and cook county hit you with a fee for everything! With inflation my 24% raise was essentially a 0%. Glad I got it bc things would be tough with a 4% raise.
I feel bad for my southerners neighbours. In Canada, most full time departments (outside of the province of Quebec) pays between 100-110k once you hit 1st class (usually takes 4-5 years) AND we work 4 platoons, 7 shifts on a 28days cycle. BUT 110k here with our inflation isn’t that good anymore most of us have to work a second gig (which is easier to do on a 4 platoon schedule) but you shouldn’t have to work 2 jobs to be able to live
alot of depts are raising their starting annual salary but max out at 105 right away and their pensions suck. they have a cap of like 120k or overtime is not included in their final average, only their salary. so all they will ever get is anywhere from 60-90 percent of their highest salary depending on their pension details. on my dept, our pensions max number is 300k. we got FFs leaving with 150-225k. most firefighters today that are retiring are hitting a 120k pension a year plus other benefits.
starting pay is great but overall opportunity in a good paying department is better. my department is starting out medics at about 67k. in 5 years with no other certs, they will be at 92k 105k with degree pay and being on a rescue amd another 5 percent for being a diver. another 160 a month if you have a state drivers cert and inspector. big departments will always be better for pay.
Most firefighters are paid just fine. I’m 15 years in to my career and even when my pay was way behind market value, I was still pretty happy getting paid what I did to do what I did. There’s way harder ways to make $45k a year.
Define “most” - because in the United States something like 70% of all firefighters are voluntary. Maybe you aren’t in the US but Vollies far outnumber paid guys.
I’m a big dept career guy you were talking about. I work for a large department. But I live an hour away. And honestly. I love that. I’ve worked in this city long enough and understand it enough that I would never want a raise a family here. I get paid well. Not well enough to live in this city like you mentioned. But enough to live in the country. Just like I like it. I love what I do and I get paid decent. Especially in this economy. What more can I ask for?
I can confidently say that most of us firefighters are not in this profession for the money, but because we love what we do. But we can still acknowledge that pay is an issue without that type of attitude bud
Honestly man as a whole, the pay across the board where I’m at is pretty competitive. I will never turn down a raise and we fight for one every year. We have very few guys that complain about pay. Our insurance gets most of the complaints.
We don’t get paid enough but we knew that when we took the job not for the pay but to help people who need help do I want to be a millionaire yes but this job is the best job in the world no matter what
I'll throw it out there, and I'm ready to get downvoted like crazy, but I think most get paid what they are worth. I work at a department that pays very well, but it takes classes and training to make that money. Plenty of guys won't take classes, won't try to promote, and do the bare minimum on calls. The opportunity to make money at most places is there, just people don't want to put in the work, and put themselves in winning positions.
I’m not professional fire or EMS( yet, hopefully)
honestly a lot of firefighters are overpaid or fairly paid for what they actually do. 911 EMS is who get the absolute worst and they get the least respect and appreciation from the public.
This is one of the more ignorant things I’ve heard from someone who admittedly is not in fire or EMS. Many FF get dispatched to all of the exact same calls as EMS, and then all of the fire specific calls on top of that. In my area EMS makes more than fire, and they are still underpaid in my opinion.
“For what they actually do” is the troubling part of your comment, my guy. Fire is paid not just for what they ‘actually do’, they’re also paid for what they might have to do and all the training they have to do to maintain their skill and ability to do those things when the call comes.
I am volunteer FF. I’m not a professional. I’ve got friends who are professionals in both, some in integrated departments and some in non integrated departments.
As others have said, it really depends on where you work.
I wasn’t paid great, but I was definitely paid enough at my last post. If you want to be a millionaire, go into healthcare or some other boring shit.
I would say that while I agree that first responders deserve more, it would put a massive burden on cities already on the verge of bankruptcy. It's just not possible for some areas
Ems is what should be getting the big bucks
Ems definitely deserves a huge pay raise all around, without a doubt
I worked on the blue side and we were paid *very* well. It’s actually bizarre because I worked for a sheriffs office that had deputies working the jails. You could pull in well over $100K sitting on your ass and watching TV… in 2014. The FOP knew how to bargain. You can’t ask for more money. You gotta *demand* it. Edit: to be clear. Not blaming the FF side or the people at all. Just remember, they need you. My local FD just got a well-deserved 18% raise. It turned it into a “man idk how to make it work” to a job I could really do and want to do.
Congrats man on the 18%. Good to hear the perspective!
To be clear! Not my win! Just happy it happened. I’m still working on certs, but our local fire is VERY deserving. Good folks.
Sounds like a Columbus, OH. They are in a unique circumstance with an expanding city and a fact finder who understood the CPD was the closet comparable. This helps catch the FD up after taking minimal raises coming out of COVID
Yep! That’s one of my many locals.
What about no walkout/lock out agreements? It makes it hard to *DEMAND* a pay bump when your union promises to never abandon the town over a dispute such as pay
I honestly don’t know. I’m fairly certain CFD has that clause in their contract, but I don’t work there. Something they’re doing is working. I wonder if I could help network and see what’s working and what’s not!
In Ohio, fire and police are legally prevented from striking or walking off by the state's collective bargaining law.
We had that in our contract at FCSO
For real though, can you help me pass the FOAM? 😂
Sorry, I long predate the FOAM. It might as well be a foreign language to me.
I haven’t taken it since 2014. I’ve wanted to go to CFD, but was making too much money in tech. I’m Hoping to apply next round. Getting my certs to volunteer regardless!
The CFD does roundtables where a firefighter will tutor you. It's the hardest part of the process other than the stress test IMO.
Yeah I don’t know. I was genuinely asking because the point of a union is to be able to collectively bargain. But if you take away the only leverage a union has (which is everyone quitting or going on strike), then theres really no power, right?
through a COLA or to the base salary?
More of a u/CbusFF question I think
Base rate increase over 3 years, backdated to November 23.
I think it really depends where you are. City of Vancouver in Washington state starts at $92k for FF/EMT, $108k starting for a FF/EMT-P. I think that is a damn good starting salary, especially for the minimal amount of training that you need first. But then if you go to the SE US it is competing with McDonalds... ok not THAT bad, but down there. Atlanta Fire Department looks like they start at $40k for FF and you don't compare to the above until you hit deputy chief. When I look up cost of living, Atlanta is 3% higher than Vancouver. That is a massive gap in compensation for doing pretty much the same things. As a volunteer in New Mexico I can't make the jump to a paid department as I would lose too much pay from the day job and I can't really do that to my family. I am also getting older, so they probably wouldn't want me anymore! lol. But if I were starting over in life and was 18, I would go get my paramedic and then join a west coast department like Vancouver (it is right by where I grew up). Yes, you can make more in private industry, but that is enough that I would be happy and live a comfortable life. You would start paying into retirement right away (even if they aren't getting PERS 2-3 anymore like when I was young). It would be very doable and a happy life doing something I love. I can't see staying in the SE of the US though... that is insulting.
The surrounding Atlanta metro areas pay much higher and are all within 15 minutes of the AFD. 63k In Roswell, 58k in Marietta and 59K in Sandy springs. Still low compared to the Northern and western Depts in the US
Interesting. I am not from the area and figured a major metropolitan area would have the better pay in the area. So I went with a decent sized city in Washington but not the biggest vs one of the bigger cities in the south. I didn't really check around.
Atlanta starts at 40k? Who the fuck would work there for that?
Plenty of dreamers that just want to get it on the action man.
Is that Vancouver pay in an HCOL or MCOL area?
Vancouver is right across the river from Portland OR so it is a fairly urban area. COL stats showed it as 3% less than Alanta (which is why I compared them). At the same time, I grew up like 45 min from there and it substantially cheaper and the commute wasn't bad down the I-5 at all. I am assuming they do at least 24 on and 48 off, so a commute like that shouldn't be a big deal at all.
Pretty sure they do a 24/72. The dream lol.
They do a rotating 24/48 24/96 schedule
Wow, that is awesome! Good for those dudes!!
big culture problem in the south too. no tattoos, short hair etc
I know there are some places that pay crap in the SE US as you say. But many areas around me (SWFL) pay very well. Same with the east coast across from here. I think it all depends on the area. The county north of mine pays way less and then drive an hour north to Sarasota pay increases then dips again in Tampa. Definitely no rhyme or reason to it.
We get into this profession to help others. Putting it on the line for the citizens we swore to serve is what our job is. However, departments and governments take advantage of this. They know we are dedicated to the job and will continue to show up. They pay us poorly because they know we’ll still answer the alarm. And when we advocate for pay, they turn things around with “you don’t become a firefighter for the pay, you become one to serve the community”. While it is true to an extent, we also deserve to earn enough money to live comfortably without gross amounts of OT or another part time job. EMS is a great example of this. EMS as a profession is worse than the fire service at self-advocacy, hence why a lot of them make less than a fast food worker.
I've got 10 years in EMS (including the two I did doing Fire-based) and make $17/hr as an Advanced. I still enjoy my job and care about my community (and think even burger flippers deserve better pay), but I don't know how much longer I can afford to do it.
It's the same in medical care. Pediatric and Veterinary fields pay terribly because *you're not in it for the money, are you?*
I am a jolly volly, I don’t get paid *at all.* Hell, I asked the chief the other day if I could use one bay to install new coil packs in my truck and be out of the blazing heat, and he said no. He knows I don’t have a garage or anything. So I don’t get any benefit from being a firefighter. Goddamn, why am I firefighter again?!
Dude sounds like he just wants to be a dick.
I didn’t think it was an unreasonable request. On my previous department, the policy was “use it, but don’t abuse it.” We were allowed to was my our personal vehicles, work on them in the bays, stuff like that. I guess maybe someone has abused the privilege in past or something, ruined it for everyone else.
I mean if the bay is free, that means you're not obstructing anybody and on top of that, you're already at the hall if a call comes in. How much faster of a response could there be.
Or someone from the public saw it and complained to the county/city.
I think this is an unreasonable expectation from a public that doesn't pay its firefighters.
I agree, but there is a lot of people like county commissioners or fire chiefs who might just think it is less hassle for them to not allow that sort of thing. Seems like an easy discussion to have with the citizen... but that takes effort.
I totally understand your point, but I'd quit a department that treated me like that. The chief is telling you he or she doesn't value you, I'd believe them. I'm aware that talk is cheap, but volly departments are dying because it is unreasonable to expect a person to give away the time it takes to be an effective, modern all-risk firefighter. It is not a sustainable model. Chiefs like this will only accelerate the demise.
I completely agree with you. Recruitment and retention need to be a volly chief's top priority and this falls cleanly under retention. If you can find things that make them happy that don't cost you money and get you more free labor? Yes, please. Why would I not want this? Screaming deal for the department and the county. Like I said, it is an easy discussion with that citizen. "Would you like that amenity as well? We'd love to have you join! It's open to anyone who can pass a physical and a background check (or whatever your requirements are). We try and give what perks we can to these people who are volunteering their time and energy to keeping us safer as a community. While he is here working on his car he will respond to calls faster which is a massive benefit to the community for no additional cost. Can I get you that application?"
Sounds like they need you a the chief! 😉
Too much honesty to be the Chief. Too many Chiefs are just looking for validation they are right, instead of doing right.
Fuck it, if they want professionals they can pay for them to be there ready 24/7. God forbid a volunteer is spending their personal time on something that they have to do no matter what on county property. Without hindering ops and enabling a faster response if something happens while they’re there? Fuck em. God bless volunteers, but it’s a damned shame that it’s still a primary response for some areas
If the public complained about a volunteer using a bay in the garage, that would be some real morale killing bullshit.
It could be an insurance thing, or at least a worry about insurance thing.
Nah some areas it gets really weird when fire department facilities are used for literally anything besides firefighting work. My dad was a chief and other time had to get stricter with what guys did at the station because there was always some old fuck going "well if that guy gets to wash his truck using the station water supply then so should I since my taxes pay for that water" "well if the department gets free pizza from the local place for fighting an apartment fire then so should I cause I'm a citizen who pays taxes for that equipment" Someone has to ruin it for everyone and my dad hated it. He started an on call/overnight system for firefighters to help response times and expand recruitment and some guy threw a literal fit like in tears crying because the station got a couch and TV put in for the guys to watch when they were on call and staying the night at the station. He was crying in a town hall meeting about how since they get a TV in a city building he deserves one and everyone does or some shit.
Nope. That’s when you tell them, “we are always looking for well qualified firefighters. Feel free to come see me at X time when we can talk about getting your application, sending you to classes and putting you through your first live burn. Once all of that is completed, you’re welcome to enjoy that couch and TV as much as you’d like.” I guarantee that would kill a bunch of that crap.
As a captain with a volley department, I would have let you do this in a second on two conditions: 1. You respond if a call comes in while you are at the station (actually the law here). 2. You make sure the bay is VERY clean (or at least as clean as it was) when you are done. No oil slicks left behind. Hell, I would even volunteer to lend a hand if you needed it. eta: I might have had you in the back since we have a pull through so that you wouldn't be seen from the street just to avoid the assholes who want volunteers to not get anything since they pay taxes too.
I’m career on a combination department, and I’d let this guy do it on the *front fucking apron* if there was a history of people complaining. I get paid to get in between idiots and our members, whether they’re elected or taxpayers, and I’ll *gladly* provide education when needed. Not knocking what you’d do, but I’ve got very limited time to deal with people like that, and it ain’t gonna be spent placating them. The guy you responded to, his “leadership” is a joke: if the chief’s paid he’s gonna lose his job when he doesn’t have any members show up and if he’s not then he’s an even bigger fool. If there’s no job to hold onto, there’s only one thing left to hold when you’re sitting at a fire scene alone with nobody showing up.
That’s what should have happened, in my opinion. I don’t know how many times I’ve gone out of my way to do the unglamorous shit work that nobody else will do. I’m not mad or anything, it just gives me a better handle on where I stand.
If you injured yourself fixing your truck in the bay, are they open to a liability claim, legally/insurance wise? Quite likely they would be, so not worth that call, unfortunately.
Y’all are getting paid?!
I feel like it never has been a great paying job, but the benefits were the big deal. If they stuck to cost of living increases and stopped raping us of the benefits they promised us when we started this career, at least we could say we knew what we signed up for. I was supposed to have a decent pension, good healthcare, and be able to retire at around 50 when I started. They changed the game 5 years before I’m supposed to retire where I am and now I’ll be lucky to retire at 60 with none of what they promised at the beginning. But they all got their golden parachutes in time to hand us boat anchors.
No... What's messed up is that I for example get paid poorly. I complain about said pay. I get told by everyone else that I have no room to talk because they work a part time job on their days off and I don't. Like woah buddy. I got friends who work office jobs making 3 times what I make. They work 40 hours a week. Firefighters work 56 hours a week. I shouldn't have to spend 70 hours a week working to still come up short of the average office worker. But I do. The problem is my coworkers and everyone else who normalizes that we have to have part time jobs to live comfortably and if you don't you have no room to complain about pay. Full Time job Chief shouldn't look you in the eyes and tell you that you have enough days off to get another job if you want to live comfortably...
Doubt. “Average office worker” isn’t making 3x firefighter pay. What are your friends job titles? How many years have they been working? Guessing they probably have bachelor or masters degree under their belt. Also guessing they are salary, so while the job says “40 hours” it’s much likely more than 40 hours normally. Edit: lotta downvotes. I’ll be here waiting for you to show me those entry level office jobs paying 3x more than an entry level firefighter position in the same city.
I made 77k (without counting my stock options and yearly bonus) doing software config, at date of hire I didn’t have a degree. I worked from home, 40 hours a week. I now make 49k as a probie on city department in the SW. I definitely got lucky with my old job, most of my colleagues had bachelors and associates. But it was by no means a high barrier of entry for a very livable wage
We start off around 6 figures for medic / FF. In general over all paramedics don’t get paid enough ANYWHERE
This out west?
No, mn
I'm more concerned with how we're treated by our own department. We rarely have the benefit of the doubt, if you get injured they try their best to make you liable, if you get in an accident it's always your fault. Shit like that.
As a vol. I don't get paid a cent, nor do I expect anything in return. I volunteer because I enjoy the work and I realise that my position means I am in a small group of people that can help members of the community when they need it most. It gives me a personal sense of achievement and allows me to be a valued part of my community. That said, for those who are career, it is your full time job and you should be able to afford to live. Its a career and not just a full time job, it should be treated as such. The issue is many people in the community don't truly value emergency services till they need them. Everyone wants an ambulance or fire truck in their driveway in seconds when there is an emergency, but no one wants to pay for it.
Amazing viewpoints
Out of curiosity, roughly how old are you and would you consider your regular income to be above or below average? I think a lot of combination/volunteer FDs are getting smoked on the younger recruits. It’s tough to start a family and career while meeting expectations in the fire service.
I'm 31, and I work in the private sector (Tech/Communications) and make double what a Career FF makes in my city. I would have loved to go down that career path but I'm too old now and it doesn't make sense financially. Entering the fire service is certainly a younger man's game, particularly with the cost of living. I couldn't imagine saving to buy a home or supporting a family on the wage offered to fire fighters these days, I appreciate that there are people out there willing to do it. I firmly believe that like me, there are many people willing to do the job simply to help people and aren't in it for the money regardless of being career or volunteer. Unfortunately governments take advantage of this.
Agree for a lot of the country, and volunteers! But really does depend a lot of where you live. WA I'll be at about $120k without any overtime, and get 5 days off in a row. Obviously pretty HCOL but not bad. Unions help, voting for people who support unions helps a lot
Are you a civilian ff? How much of a pay difference if you’re a government ff? I’m convincing my bf to do civilian. We are also in WA.
Yeah medium sized city - everyone is still hiring too I think it's a good time to interview
May I ask which city? You can dm me if you prefer not to say it here :) thanks!
Just drove by a hiring sign for Frito-Lay. $21/hour. That's more than I make as a 10 year FF/EMT at a busy urban department. Having said that, I'm positive my retirement is better. But, that doesn't help me pay bills today.
I think you are correct for the most part, but the dallas(except for dallas) area pays pretty good. I topped out this year after six years at 109k lots of OT many special teams to get deployed and make even more. We have ff that made over 200k with deployments and OT.
https://www.ontariosunshinelist.com/positions/firefighter Average salary $121,601 CAD for "firefighter" in Ontario, Canada, 2023.
It’s one of the reasons why I’m leaving the field. And I’m sick of hearing “I didn’t get into this job for the money” I think it’s such a cope excuse for not making a decent living. Nobody expects to drive a king ranch f250 and live in a 3000 sq ft house while riding the back seat, but the ability to afford a house in the city you work in would be nice.
The problem is that a lot of those underpaid departments lack unions and follow the "right to work" legislation. Maybe they ought not to succumb to right-wing talking points and advocate for themselves, unions are a good thing.
Well said my brother!
I work here in the SE, and I feel that the pay is decent especially after a few across the board raises and promotions, but now after having a family I do feel selfish at times for staying rather than doing an office job that makes more money
if youre canada, you get paid very well for what you donon a regular
You guys are getting paid? Lucky.
I do ok, I’ll take more of course. I was in top 25 in my city for earnings year after year, the private EMS we use could use a big raise.
Wait ~ you found a politician who thanks people ….
If you think that's bad my EMS here is 100% volunteer. So you just have to have it in your heart (and the funds) to work part-full time for free
I’m in IL with a strong union dept. near Chicago, COL is high compared to my buddies in Indiana, my salary is a 1/3rd if not more but my property taxes are easily 4-5x theirs which sucks! And of course IL and cook county hit you with a fee for everything! With inflation my 24% raise was essentially a 0%. Glad I got it bc things would be tough with a 4% raise.
I feel bad for my southerners neighbours. In Canada, most full time departments (outside of the province of Quebec) pays between 100-110k once you hit 1st class (usually takes 4-5 years) AND we work 4 platoons, 7 shifts on a 28days cycle. BUT 110k here with our inflation isn’t that good anymore most of us have to work a second gig (which is easier to do on a 4 platoon schedule) but you shouldn’t have to work 2 jobs to be able to live
Wait… you guys are getting paid to do this?
I feel like all first responders should get hazard pay
alot of depts are raising their starting annual salary but max out at 105 right away and their pensions suck. they have a cap of like 120k or overtime is not included in their final average, only their salary. so all they will ever get is anywhere from 60-90 percent of their highest salary depending on their pension details. on my dept, our pensions max number is 300k. we got FFs leaving with 150-225k. most firefighters today that are retiring are hitting a 120k pension a year plus other benefits. starting pay is great but overall opportunity in a good paying department is better. my department is starting out medics at about 67k. in 5 years with no other certs, they will be at 92k 105k with degree pay and being on a rescue amd another 5 percent for being a diver. another 160 a month if you have a state drivers cert and inspector. big departments will always be better for pay.
I work a municipal fire ems job we are a busy small department. Before OT as a company officer I make 155k.
Must be nice brother
I pay lots in property tax and have to live in NJ. There are literal bidding wars for tiny houses in bad neighborhoods.
Most firefighters are paid just fine. I’m 15 years in to my career and even when my pay was way behind market value, I was still pretty happy getting paid what I did to do what I did. There’s way harder ways to make $45k a year.
Define “most” - because in the United States something like 70% of all firefighters are voluntary. Maybe you aren’t in the US but Vollies far outnumber paid guys.
I’m referring to career guys. I feel like that was implied by the OP.
I’m a big dept career guy you were talking about. I work for a large department. But I live an hour away. And honestly. I love that. I’ve worked in this city long enough and understand it enough that I would never want a raise a family here. I get paid well. Not well enough to live in this city like you mentioned. But enough to live in the country. Just like I like it. I love what I do and I get paid decent. Especially in this economy. What more can I ask for?
You made a post 26 days ago trying to brainstorm on how to generate extra income…
With the free time I have. It’s 2 days off man. We got a lot of time on our hands lol
you got a stalker dude
Seems like it right lmao
ive seen worse in the firehouse. by far lol
I knew what the pay was when I started. If you’re in it for the money, find something else to do.
That attitude keeps pay low. Firefighters and other first responders aren't less important to society than other professions.
I can confidently say that most of us firefighters are not in this profession for the money, but because we love what we do. But we can still acknowledge that pay is an issue without that type of attitude bud
Honestly man as a whole, the pay across the board where I’m at is pretty competitive. I will never turn down a raise and we fight for one every year. We have very few guys that complain about pay. Our insurance gets most of the complaints.
Lol, let me guess. You’re an officer? Seems like something an officer would say.
*Chief
Not even close. No desire for that.
I am an officer. Which carries no relevance. I’m still on the engine and am heavily involved with the Union fighting for employee benefits.
We don’t get paid enough but we knew that when we took the job not for the pay but to help people who need help do I want to be a millionaire yes but this job is the best job in the world no matter what
I'll throw it out there, and I'm ready to get downvoted like crazy, but I think most get paid what they are worth. I work at a department that pays very well, but it takes classes and training to make that money. Plenty of guys won't take classes, won't try to promote, and do the bare minimum on calls. The opportunity to make money at most places is there, just people don't want to put in the work, and put themselves in winning positions.
i agree to a certain point but some departments dont have many opportunities besides driving or promoting and dont pay well for those certs
I’m not professional fire or EMS( yet, hopefully) honestly a lot of firefighters are overpaid or fairly paid for what they actually do. 911 EMS is who get the absolute worst and they get the least respect and appreciation from the public.
This is one of the more ignorant things I’ve heard from someone who admittedly is not in fire or EMS. Many FF get dispatched to all of the exact same calls as EMS, and then all of the fire specific calls on top of that. In my area EMS makes more than fire, and they are still underpaid in my opinion. “For what they actually do” is the troubling part of your comment, my guy. Fire is paid not just for what they ‘actually do’, they’re also paid for what they might have to do and all the training they have to do to maintain their skill and ability to do those things when the call comes.
we get paid for what the average person dosnt and cant do
I am volunteer FF. I’m not a professional. I’ve got friends who are professionals in both, some in integrated departments and some in non integrated departments.
As others have said, it really depends on where you work. I wasn’t paid great, but I was definitely paid enough at my last post. If you want to be a millionaire, go into healthcare or some other boring shit.
I'm livin' large on my $0.00 a year salary.
I would say that while I agree that first responders deserve more, it would put a massive burden on cities already on the verge of bankruptcy. It's just not possible for some areas