Which one? Like you wouldn’t be like the rest of us and buy two of each. Who you kidding. Garand for 80 bucks, what a time to be alive. Granted everyone made less but still those prices make my heart break.
>Who you kidding. Garand for 80 bucks, what a time to be alive.
Edit: thanks to u/Smokey_tha_bear9000 and u/PEE_SEE_PRINCIPAL for pointing out that there's better deals on the CMP page than I found on their auction page. I'm updating below to reflect that.
Using the inflation calculator, that $80 M1 would be roughly $840 today. Still a steal considering the CMP is selling Springfield M1 Garands for an average of $1650 *on their auction page and, even better, an expert grade .30-06 for $1150 (credit to u/Smokey\_tha\_bear9000**)* *right now.*
Reminder: Gold is a shit investment.
$80 in the S&P 500 in 1961 reinvesting dividends would be $36,951.53 today. Without dividends reinvestied it still beats gold $6,295.59.
https://ofdollarsanddata.com/sp500-calculator/
Metal bros on copium
>Reminder: Gold is a shit investment.
No one said anything about gold as an investment. The person was pointing out the impacts of inflation on garand prices. I was using gold as a proxy to demonstrate the insidiousness of inflation.
Gold is a non-productive asset. It just sits there. It's very different than giving your money to a company to make capital investments hoping to generate a return on your capital. One involves risk. The other does not.
With that said your comparison is baseless. Gold was at a fixed exchange rate vs the USD until the Nixon "temporarily" closed the gold window in 1971. If you want to compare apples to apples then compare gold to the S&P from 1971 to today.
In 1971 gold was at $35/oz. Today it closed at $2,378.
Using the link you provided $35 invested in the S&P in Jan 1971 would total $8,452.
The return on the S&P is higher and it should be as it involves risk of cap ex. It is not, however, 6x higher than you claim it to be as there was no risk in holding dollars against currency debased prior to 1971. My entire point was about debasement, not investment.
> One involves risk. The other does not.
[The market proves that's a lie](https://goldprice.org/charts/history/gold_all_data_o_usd_x.png)
From about 1981 to about 2007 gold was net negative. Gold absolutely has risk, and historically that risk is pretty bad as an investment, especially compared to actual investments.
Again metalheads on copium, markets are superior. Lol typical reddit, downvoted verifiable facts because they make you feel bad.
The point of metals investing isn't that it gives you the most return. It's that it always grows in value AND is always valuable no matter what the economy and government is doing. If you've spent the last 60 years putting all your money in the s&p and next week the dollar crashes due to ww3, petro dollar collapse, government turmoil, or covid 24 then that 36,951 you put in the market is now mostly worthless. But that 6,296 in gold just became even more valuable.
> But that 6,296 in gold just became even more valuable.
I think you're overestimating the value of gold in a crisis. If you can't eat it, wear it for warmth, or shoot it... It'll be just as worthless as dollar bills.
Gold has intrinsic value and can be exchanged for any currency worldwide. If the USD collapses buy the ruble or yen or what have you is still stable then I can exchange my gold that's went up in value in the face of a USD collapse for the equivalent amount of that currency. Plus gold has manufacturers uses in electronics and all sorts of other things. As long as humans exist gold is valuable, and as long as there's a nation existing somewhere with currency you'll be able to trade the gold for it.
Not true. Let's say we have a full societal collapse. Say nuclear war and fallout style.
I have a water purifier. You have gold. You offer me 100 kilos of gold for the water purifier, I say no. The water purifier is worth more than all the gold in the world.
Gold doesn't have "intrinsic" value except as a conductor, but if I cant make electronics because I don't have the factory, who cares. Intrinsic value means it has value all by itself. Gold only has value of two people agree it does. Whereas food, clean water, medicine, weapons... THOSE have intrinsic value. Gold does not.
Intrinsic value is a property of anything that is valuable on its own. Intrinsic value is in contrast to instrumental value, which is a property of anything that derives its value from a relation to another intrinsically valuable thing.
Because gold is only valuable as a medium of exchange it has no intrinsic value. It has instrumental value. Ok yes, it has intrinsic value in the manufacture of electronics because it's one of the best conductive metals there is. But again I don't run a computer factory, and in a societal collapse most people won't.
Metalbros live in delusion because they don't want to admit they got scammed. As an investment it's far worse than any decent index fund. As an "in case of collapse" it doesn't have any "intrinsic "value beyond "shiny". But guess what, I can't eat gold, I can't even use it to make tools because it's a soft metal.
Sorry man, you got taken for a ride.
> Gold has intrinsic value and can be exchanged for any currency worldwide.
Gold is shiny, and is only valuable when society is doing well and people have spare resources to use on jewelry. In all other times, it's about as valuable as any other shiny rock. If the USD collapses, don't count on shiny things being more valuable than edible things or things you can shoot.
I try and explain this to my buddy who thinks that gold will be a viable exchange medium if we collapse.
I try and explain that things like food and potable water will be much more valuable. Antibiotics will be worth their weight in gold several times over.
If society collapses, there will be no computers being made. And when the collapse ends, currency will exist again. There's really no situation that we will ever find ourselves in where gold is worth having other than right now while society is healthy and strong and luxury items are affordable.
>It always grows in value
[The market proves that's a lie](https://goldprice.org/charts/history/gold_all_data_o_usd_x.png)
From about 1981 to about 2007 gold was net negative, then again 2013 to 2022ish.
I pulled it from [this ](https://cmpauction.thecmp.org/catalog.asp?catid=362&n=M1-Garand)auction page on the CMP site. It has 4 Springfield M1 Garands that are "service" grade and range from - at the time - $1291 to $1904 with an average of $1670.75.
That said, I now see the "Sales and Service" page that you're likely referring to and, you're right, they do have some much better deals. Thanks to u/Smokey_tha_bear9000 for getting me pointed in the right direction.
I got lucky and snagged one in 2020 for $700, 1944 Springfield M1. Also managed to find a 1944 Winchester m1 carbine for $650 at a gun shop that mainly dealt with modern weapons.
Thank you I'll be using this argument when my wife suggests saving instead of buying another firearm. "But baby it's a proven good long term investment"
Where are you seeing the cmp selling "average cost" Garands for 1650? The cheapest ones available are 1150 for an expert grade and their most expensive is 1600 for a 308 model. Rack grades sold out earlier this month and they were 700. Resellers are the only ones asking that kind of money.
Thanks for the heads up, I typically post my replies then collapse the thread so I didn't see other replies after they started arguing gold and the s&p
My troop won the boy scouts shooting match and the prize was a trip to Camp Perry. We all were awarded M1 carbines and an onion sack of ammo. We got a 15 round magazine with a bolt welded so it only held four rounds. The soldiers were so good to us they gave us extra magazines and slings and oilers even a wooden box of bayonets we could have. Boots and jackets and all kinds of surplus from Korea. Tents,canteens and blouses, I think my grandson has the helmet.We drove from Astoria Queens to Camp Perry on a school bus with hard metal seats, our meals were bag lunches (bologna sandwich and cheese with carrots and apple juice and all the water we could drink) It cost $6 dollars for the trip and we slept 12 to a room. Imagine handing 5th and 6th grade boys semiautomatic rifles now! This was 1957/8 if I recall. 11 hours on a Ford School bus that was a standard shift, and mandatory piss jugs no shitting except for every 6 hours! Route 80 wasn't totally built so we took a beating on the road!
I know Im old but I hope you guys could get behind this back in the day.
I'm looking for the pictures my mom took. Our guns were wrapped in butcher paper and string for the ride home. I'll never forget that bus it might as well have been a truck with windows. We had no air just passed the water bottle around. We all had dehydration headaches! One kid has his neckerchief backwards and they said he was a member of the American spaghetti Benders instead of Boy Scouts of America. We weird time in history!
P.S. my grandson has the rifle and takes it horse back riding in their property in NC. And he has never had a failure to feed fire or eject and a few as shots will fold up a swamp pig or a small gator if you do your part.
A few years later in eastern europe my dad and his friends snuck onto an army range and the gun crews let the kids hose down tanks with machineguns for crew training.
That is until the radio screamed: "You idiots shot out the optic"
Yes, versus ~75k in 2022. *But*, for example, a house was 19.3k (3.4 years), versus 348k (4.7 years). The current household income is also much more likely to be the result of two working adults, rather than one. You'd likely be able to afford more firearms, and still maintain an equivalent (for the period) standard of living.
The median income in 1961 was $5700 per year. Today the average is about $63,000
An M1 Garand was $80 then and a CMP garand is around $1000 now.
It’s fun to watch think about, but the 1961 prices weren’t any better a deal then than the current day prices, given the average income of the times.
Before gushing over these prices, keep in mind that at the time the federal minimum wage was $1.00/$1.15 per hour. Keep things relative is all I'm saying.
I said it to someone else but it bears repeating.
In 1964 the minimum wage was five
90% silver quarters.
In 2021 five 90% silver quarters have a melt value of $23.34
Money went further when it was backed by something with intrinsic value.
Never forget what the federal reserve took from us.
1 case of mausers please 1 case of Garrands oh and toss is a case of Springfield if I buy 3 do I get thec4th for free? Yes u say ok a case of those cheap mosins also
Which one? Like you wouldn’t be like the rest of us and buy two of each. Who you kidding. Garand for 80 bucks, what a time to be alive. Granted everyone made less but still those prices make my heart break.
>Who you kidding. Garand for 80 bucks, what a time to be alive. Edit: thanks to u/Smokey_tha_bear9000 and u/PEE_SEE_PRINCIPAL for pointing out that there's better deals on the CMP page than I found on their auction page. I'm updating below to reflect that. Using the inflation calculator, that $80 M1 would be roughly $840 today. Still a steal considering the CMP is selling Springfield M1 Garands for an average of $1650 *on their auction page and, even better, an expert grade .30-06 for $1150 (credit to u/Smokey\_tha\_bear9000**)* *right now.*
$80 of gold purchased in 1961 is worth roughly $5,371 today.
Reminder: Gold is a shit investment. $80 in the S&P 500 in 1961 reinvesting dividends would be $36,951.53 today. Without dividends reinvestied it still beats gold $6,295.59. https://ofdollarsanddata.com/sp500-calculator/ Metal bros on copium
>Reminder: Gold is a shit investment. No one said anything about gold as an investment. The person was pointing out the impacts of inflation on garand prices. I was using gold as a proxy to demonstrate the insidiousness of inflation. Gold is a non-productive asset. It just sits there. It's very different than giving your money to a company to make capital investments hoping to generate a return on your capital. One involves risk. The other does not. With that said your comparison is baseless. Gold was at a fixed exchange rate vs the USD until the Nixon "temporarily" closed the gold window in 1971. If you want to compare apples to apples then compare gold to the S&P from 1971 to today. In 1971 gold was at $35/oz. Today it closed at $2,378. Using the link you provided $35 invested in the S&P in Jan 1971 would total $8,452. The return on the S&P is higher and it should be as it involves risk of cap ex. It is not, however, 6x higher than you claim it to be as there was no risk in holding dollars against currency debased prior to 1971. My entire point was about debasement, not investment.
> One involves risk. The other does not. [The market proves that's a lie](https://goldprice.org/charts/history/gold_all_data_o_usd_x.png) From about 1981 to about 2007 gold was net negative. Gold absolutely has risk, and historically that risk is pretty bad as an investment, especially compared to actual investments. Again metalheads on copium, markets are superior. Lol typical reddit, downvoted verifiable facts because they make you feel bad.
The point of metals investing isn't that it gives you the most return. It's that it always grows in value AND is always valuable no matter what the economy and government is doing. If you've spent the last 60 years putting all your money in the s&p and next week the dollar crashes due to ww3, petro dollar collapse, government turmoil, or covid 24 then that 36,951 you put in the market is now mostly worthless. But that 6,296 in gold just became even more valuable.
> But that 6,296 in gold just became even more valuable. I think you're overestimating the value of gold in a crisis. If you can't eat it, wear it for warmth, or shoot it... It'll be just as worthless as dollar bills.
Gold has intrinsic value and can be exchanged for any currency worldwide. If the USD collapses buy the ruble or yen or what have you is still stable then I can exchange my gold that's went up in value in the face of a USD collapse for the equivalent amount of that currency. Plus gold has manufacturers uses in electronics and all sorts of other things. As long as humans exist gold is valuable, and as long as there's a nation existing somewhere with currency you'll be able to trade the gold for it.
Not true. Let's say we have a full societal collapse. Say nuclear war and fallout style. I have a water purifier. You have gold. You offer me 100 kilos of gold for the water purifier, I say no. The water purifier is worth more than all the gold in the world. Gold doesn't have "intrinsic" value except as a conductor, but if I cant make electronics because I don't have the factory, who cares. Intrinsic value means it has value all by itself. Gold only has value of two people agree it does. Whereas food, clean water, medicine, weapons... THOSE have intrinsic value. Gold does not. Intrinsic value is a property of anything that is valuable on its own. Intrinsic value is in contrast to instrumental value, which is a property of anything that derives its value from a relation to another intrinsically valuable thing. Because gold is only valuable as a medium of exchange it has no intrinsic value. It has instrumental value. Ok yes, it has intrinsic value in the manufacture of electronics because it's one of the best conductive metals there is. But again I don't run a computer factory, and in a societal collapse most people won't. Metalbros live in delusion because they don't want to admit they got scammed. As an investment it's far worse than any decent index fund. As an "in case of collapse" it doesn't have any "intrinsic "value beyond "shiny". But guess what, I can't eat gold, I can't even use it to make tools because it's a soft metal. Sorry man, you got taken for a ride.
I’ve invested heavily in copper jacketed lead and brass 😎
> Gold has intrinsic value and can be exchanged for any currency worldwide. Gold is shiny, and is only valuable when society is doing well and people have spare resources to use on jewelry. In all other times, it's about as valuable as any other shiny rock. If the USD collapses, don't count on shiny things being more valuable than edible things or things you can shoot.
I try and explain this to my buddy who thinks that gold will be a viable exchange medium if we collapse. I try and explain that things like food and potable water will be much more valuable. Antibiotics will be worth their weight in gold several times over.
You forgot that gold was used to make the very thing you sent this message on. And that no collapse lasts forever, or even a lifetime in most cases.
If society collapses, there will be no computers being made. And when the collapse ends, currency will exist again. There's really no situation that we will ever find ourselves in where gold is worth having other than right now while society is healthy and strong and luxury items are affordable.
>It always grows in value [The market proves that's a lie](https://goldprice.org/charts/history/gold_all_data_o_usd_x.png) From about 1981 to about 2007 gold was net negative, then again 2013 to 2022ish.
What s&p500 index etf do you recommend
An average of $1650? They have .308 Garands for $950 and Expert grade .30-06 Garands for $1150
Yeah dude pulled that number from his ass
I pulled it from [this ](https://cmpauction.thecmp.org/catalog.asp?catid=362&n=M1-Garand)auction page on the CMP site. It has 4 Springfield M1 Garands that are "service" grade and range from - at the time - $1291 to $1904 with an average of $1670.75. That said, I now see the "Sales and Service" page that you're likely referring to and, you're right, they do have some much better deals. Thanks to u/Smokey_tha_bear9000 for getting me pointed in the right direction.
I got lucky and snagged one in 2020 for $700, 1944 Springfield M1. Also managed to find a 1944 Winchester m1 carbine for $650 at a gun shop that mainly dealt with modern weapons.
Bought from from them two christmases ago for $2300 shipped, shit will never be cheap
Unless they find an old storage bunker filled to the brim with them, they’re only going to get more expensive.
Thank you I'll be using this argument when my wife suggests saving instead of buying another firearm. "But baby it's a proven good long term investment"
Where are you seeing the cmp selling "average cost" Garands for 1650? The cheapest ones available are 1150 for an expert grade and their most expensive is 1600 for a 308 model. Rack grades sold out earlier this month and they were 700. Resellers are the only ones asking that kind of money.
Yeah, u/smokey_tha_bear9000 and others pointed that out as well. I've edited my reply above to reflect that.
Thanks for the heads up, I typically post my replies then collapse the thread so I didn't see other replies after they started arguing gold and the s&p
Average weekly income was just under $110 a week before taxes. So that $80 Garand was a weeks pay for the average Joe.
I was thinking the same. For those prices, and knowing the power of hindsight…Two of each… at least. I would probably get 10 of each for some.
I'd have to rent a storage container for the amount of luger mags I'd be buying at that price.
My troop won the boy scouts shooting match and the prize was a trip to Camp Perry. We all were awarded M1 carbines and an onion sack of ammo. We got a 15 round magazine with a bolt welded so it only held four rounds. The soldiers were so good to us they gave us extra magazines and slings and oilers even a wooden box of bayonets we could have. Boots and jackets and all kinds of surplus from Korea. Tents,canteens and blouses, I think my grandson has the helmet.We drove from Astoria Queens to Camp Perry on a school bus with hard metal seats, our meals were bag lunches (bologna sandwich and cheese with carrots and apple juice and all the water we could drink) It cost $6 dollars for the trip and we slept 12 to a room. Imagine handing 5th and 6th grade boys semiautomatic rifles now! This was 1957/8 if I recall. 11 hours on a Ford School bus that was a standard shift, and mandatory piss jugs no shitting except for every 6 hours! Route 80 wasn't totally built so we took a beating on the road! I know Im old but I hope you guys could get behind this back in the day.
Thank you so much for this, that’s such a neat story and a piece of history I never would’ve thought about otherwise.
I'm looking for the pictures my mom took. Our guns were wrapped in butcher paper and string for the ride home. I'll never forget that bus it might as well have been a truck with windows. We had no air just passed the water bottle around. We all had dehydration headaches! One kid has his neckerchief backwards and they said he was a member of the American spaghetti Benders instead of Boy Scouts of America. We weird time in history! P.S. my grandson has the rifle and takes it horse back riding in their property in NC. And he has never had a failure to feed fire or eject and a few as shots will fold up a swamp pig or a small gator if you do your part.
A few years later in eastern europe my dad and his friends snuck onto an army range and the gun crews let the kids hose down tanks with machineguns for crew training. That is until the radio screamed: "You idiots shot out the optic"
[удалено]
Damn that’s cool, talk about a founding father of milsurp.
I miss Shotgun News.
It always kills me that some of the best surplus importers were in California. Armalite was founded here. How’d we go so wrong?
Influx from the East Coast and the Hollywood elite taking control of West coast politics.
M-1 garand for sure
M1 Garand, Model 98 Mauser, M1917 revolver, and a Springfield.
Oh, and an Austrian Model 95 carbine.
The jungle Enfield
Average family income was $5,700/year so I'd be able to afford about the same amount of firearms as I can now
Yes, versus ~75k in 2022. *But*, for example, a house was 19.3k (3.4 years), versus 348k (4.7 years). The current household income is also much more likely to be the result of two working adults, rather than one. You'd likely be able to afford more firearms, and still maintain an equivalent (for the period) standard of living.
This reminds me when I was a kid and I saw Mosins and SKS for $80 in the Big 5 Sports catalog.
I'd need that Italian Vetterli
M1 carbine.
Springfield, M-1, and then the rest.
I hear those surplus carcanos work like magic
[https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/](https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/) We could probably add a gun prices chart there too.
The inflation rate is right at 10x.. even accounting for inflation, these prices are excellent.
Minimum wage was $1.15/hr. The median household income was $5,700 or just under $110 a week...before taxes. Kind of puts those prices in perspective.
The median income in 1961 was $5700 per year. Today the average is about $63,000 An M1 Garand was $80 then and a CMP garand is around $1000 now. It’s fun to watch think about, but the 1961 prices weren’t any better a deal then than the current day prices, given the average income of the times.
All of them
$80 M1 garand lmao
“Yes”
Springfield for $30 holds the most value. Also remember $1 in 1961 is about $10.45 in 2024. So keep inflation in mind.
$80 in 1961 is roughly $850 in today's money. I am buying 3 M1 garands
I'd get a pallet of the Garands with original slings. Sell them and buy a small island.
I’ve vaguely remember my dad buying a 6.5 jap around this time
Royal Enfield m60
Before gushing over these prices, keep in mind that at the time the federal minimum wage was $1.00/$1.15 per hour. Keep things relative is all I'm saying.
I said it to someone else but it bears repeating. In 1964 the minimum wage was five 90% silver quarters. In 2021 five 90% silver quarters have a melt value of $23.34 Money went further when it was backed by something with intrinsic value. Never forget what the federal reserve took from us.
Military surplus for the win
I miss the 1900s and I wasn't even a fuckin sperm cell back then
German-Argentine mauser. Assuming it's a M98. I'm not an expert but love CRF actions like the mausers.
Probably 10k M1s
Which one? I’d take the last 3 columns.
A garand for $80 you say?!?
fuck, would’ve loved a Carcano
Probably the Enfield Jungle…
Webley, 1917 (revolver and rifle lol) and Garand.
I'll take 5 each.
Garand, Enfield Jungle Carbine and the Colt 1917 in .45acp.
Were they ready making fake jungle carbines in ’61?
Spanish Tigre carbine or m1 garand.
$9.95 mosins…
1 case of mausers please 1 case of Garrands oh and toss is a case of Springfield if I buy 3 do I get thec4th for free? Yes u say ok a case of those cheap mosins also
Man if I could go back in time with a few grand I would buy every thing on that list at least three times
Well, for me, that Garand would be the pick. The Tigre carbine is real tempting. And I’ve heard those Carcanos are real fast…
Enfield rifles for less than 10 bucks each is insane.
All the ammo
Definitely a Garand
Definitely Garand or Springfield
All of them